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I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times. And maybe only 1 of those times isn't supported by current WP7. I think I was trying to copy a selected joke off the internet and send it in a text to someone. Is that really a deal breaker? REALLY? I can't copy and paste in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I can't multitask in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I don't have access to the file system so this phone sucks? lol This is getting out of hand. I'm not gonna lie, after seeing it in person I want to give a few thoughts:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
2) MS isn't just forgoing certain aspects, they are giving you something they perceive is BETTER(and they could be wrong). And I get to thinking about this for a minute. I'm running an Acer S2000, I don't have much problems with running multiple apps at the same time but If I go back to my old Touch HD, After running maybe 4-5 apps at the same time(hell just one 2-3 apps provided one of them is google maps), I start to experience extreme slowdown in the device so now I'm forced to use the task manager and close out apps. This is everyday stuff for us, no biggie. But to the everyday end-consumer its pretty tough and annoying concept to grasp. So why shouldn't the system do it for you? Why shouldn't the system recognize the fact that you just got an email with a phone number and that by clicking on the phone number you either want to add it as a contact or call the number? Why? Is a very important question. People ask why are some of us defending it to the death, I ask why are certain people so unwilling to accept change? Its not like WM6+ is dead...
3) its not an iphone clone. Hell, Android and WebOS has multitasking, I guess they are WM-clones... Its such a stupid concept. It looks nothing like the Iphone and it doesn't act anything like the Iphone. But you gotta give Apple some credit, they know what people want and they provide it, thats how you go from the bottom of the hill to the top in 4 quick years. The Iphone reinvented what people use a phone for. Its simple and intuitive (just press what you want) WM is going for that same lot of people. If everyone from XDA didn't buy WP7, MS wouldn't even break a sweat because it know it will gain far more everyday users than it will lose from powerusers. Powerusers will stay where they are, but look at the population of the world with Tweet, facebook, myspace, etc. You don't think some of them are salivating at the mouth to get to this powerhouse? I wish MS would have just flat out said, "you wanna hack phones and tinker with system files, this phone isn't for you, go suck it XDA" it would have been so much easier for people to take
So look at the positive
Developers (which i have to believe are the life blood of WM and THIS WEBSITE...unless you're a leech in which case no need to respond) No more need to spend you precious time building beautiful apps and not get paid for it(if it were the case A_C would be one rich dude by now). I like the idea of the marketplace as the only place to get apps. I mean when people think about how many people take innovation for granted on this site. Show up, find something new, download someones work...not leave a message of thanks, not donate etc....just poof gone. Thats complete and utter crap. Devs should get paid for their work, free download with a set trial period is an amazing idea and will definitely go a long way to seeing 1) quality developers getting most of the service 2) quality apps drive the marketplace to further innovation. This is a all around plus for the end user and developers.
Built in memory. I think is a plus. Now people can argue the contrary but this is more of a personal thing for me. Plus when you think of the end user, it only works out for the better. Give me 32GB and I'm fine. Hell I haven't come close to maxing out the same 4 gig I've had for the past 3-4 years.
Everything is better than Windows media player. I must say, I use my phone for music a lot (Jaybird bluetooth FTW) and I must say the Zune experience is amazing (I also have a Zune) and its just beautiful. Gone are the days when I copy songs onto my phone and I end up with Unknown song 1-18 by unknown artist. Zune desktop is head and shoulders above WM and Itunes. Hell you can search more music by and artist you have on your phone, listen to songs and download them str8 to the phone with the Zune Pass. I get 10 free songs a month to keep, and can listen to anything I want anytime for $15 a month. Thats an awesome deal considering Itunes is 99 cents per song and you don't have the ability to listen to anything you want anytime you want.
Info on the go, I like the hubs...I love the hubs. I wish i used social networking sites..lol. Honestly the amount of detail that goes into the total system integration of social networking is sheer madness. Your photos update with photos that people post on their facebook?!?!?! WTF? Thats insane. Its quite ridiculous how far they went, but if you care about that, and a lot of people do, then this is the ultimate device. You don't need to launch twinkini or whatever twitter app to see whats going on, you only need to look through your contacts. Thats awesome
MS Office, I never used anything but XLS files personally but I'm looking at the way its integrated (even though they didn't get too in depth) and it looks great. It looks clean (METRO UI) and it looks easy to use. I can't wait to get some pinch to zoom action going. Powerpoint presentations should be a breeze as well.
XBOX HUB, sheer awesomeness. I don't have an Xbox(PS3 FTW) but Linking it all together they way they have is nothing short of innovative and awesome. Give me an Xperia X3 with a PS3 Integration and I'll love you forever. Also a big shout out goes to the game development. Graphics are seriously on par with PSP quality. It quite amazing.
I once said:
"its(WP7) not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation..."
I still stand by that after MIX10. I won't bash WP7 and I will defend it because I believe it is that innovative, I believe it is a game changer. For all the complaining there hasn't been a congruent amount of love spread so I will be that guy even if the flame gets ridiculous. So yeah, MIX10 was amazing, got robbed, won some money, got married and divorced (I kid) it was a great experience, something that watching it on video cannot give justice to.
That said I will give a few of my small personal beefs.
1) The phone handles multitasking in a way that closes programs when the system needs the resources, why don't we have control over this? Having the ability to manually close programs is important...should be an option. Assuming the system doesn't have some genius way of making me happy with its multitasking...this could be a problem. Also, with the spec given, how the hell is this system running out of resources?
2) SD cards aren't supported. Eh, with enough built in memory this isn't a problem to most but, I know some that have maxed out their Iphones/Ipod touch. It would be nice to have an expandable option
3) Compatiblity issues, How am I supposed to share files with my phone to my PC if I cannot access activesync? Do I email the file to myself then open it on my PC? There better be some answer for this.
4) Also I use my current WM phone as a thumbdrive alot. I just store stuff on it to keep with me and put on my work PC and vice versa. Without activesync, memory cards, or access to system files how is this accomplished?
~style1~
ALRIGHT those are my thoughts, I tried to play both sides of the fence even though I'm completely biased..lol. I do bring up some interesting issues with WP7...what are your thoughts? Also sorry for another long thread
style1 said:
I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times.
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That's nice, but what's the rationale for not including it for anyone? MS says, "Our research indicates that people don't use copy and paste." That scares me because it is very Apple-esque. I hate the philosophy of "we know what works best for you, so why don't you shut the eff up and not ask any questions, OK? Just do what you're told and play in our nice little walled in garden and everything will be fine." That Apple mentality has spread to MS it seems. I don't often look at or take pictures on my phone, either, but does that mean those capabilities should be removed? No, they should be there in the event that I do want to use them. What's the harm in leaving in copy and paste?
And if I can get good battery life on my TP2 with multitasking, why can't they coax it out of the shiny new WP7? How does Palm do it?
I store all sorts of crap on my phone, so they better have 32GB versions available and let me use it as USB storage.
Also, I heard you won't be able to set different programs as the default (say, Opera instead of IE). Which is another ridiculous restriction and just shows that MS has gone overboard with control, just like Apple. And that's just the reason I don't have an iPod or iPhone.
So if things don't change, I'm off to Android.
Engadget, by the way, has been actually quite balanced with WP7 versus their coverage of WM6. And prior to the all bad stuff we learned at MIX10, they were hyping it quite a bit themselves.
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
I'm feeling kinda torn with regards to WP7s. On the one hand I love the UI and the integration, on the other I hate the lock down. Not just the software lock down but also the hardware lock down. It's what I hated about the Iphone, and it's what I hate about WP7s. Granted, there's gonna be more variety with WP7s, but it's constrained variety.
When I first saw WP7s I was certain my next phone would be with that OS. Now I'm not so sure...
Regards
havox22 said:
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
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They've completely re-done the UI. Allowing copy & paste would mean they would need to re-implement it from scratch. Besides that, as far as I know the WP7 menus are limited to max. 4 entries so they figured out it doesn't really fit in....
yeah I feel you guys about the copy and paste even though I hardly use it, but my honest opinion about it is that microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all. The issues mentioned at the bottom of my original post pose far bigger issues than having copy and paste. But as I mentioned in my OP, I don't think MS intentionally got rid of the stuff we like, I think they tried to integrate something that is better, something for the end user instead of the the heavy user. If thats their ideal customer(everyday users), then yes, Automatic multitasking trumps the task manager style multitasking: active copy paste is useless. I guess...lol
BEGIN RANT/
On a different note, on the innovation side Android reminds me alot of the old WM. Palm/WebOS is a different beast all together. Nokia/Symbian owns majority market share even though its hardly innovative, Iphone has been largely innovative (face it...it is) and is the number 2 OS followed by WM. Image that as a marketer. There are like a million different types of WM phones made by dozens of different manufacturers and somehow they lose market share in 4-5 years to 1 phone made by 1 developer. How is that possible? There is something to be said for massive over-saturation and its effectiveness (NOKIA...I'm looking at you) but as far making hand over fist money, how can you not just look at Apple and say "genius?" 1 phone, locked down, hated by so many, number 2 marketshare in the world. I think if WM is going to get on top they have to attack Apple. Attacking Android does nothing...honestly I think pushing WM 6.5 beats android (Personal opinion) WP7 has to take those Iphone users away from apple. So they have to offer not just something similar, they have to offer something BETTER. So yeah, High level of social integration is BETTER, Simplistic design and text based smooth UI is BETTER, Stronger Hardware BETTER, Xbox integration and heavy game centric focus is BETTER. The Iphone is the enemy here. In order to beat Apple it has to be BETTER at what it does. So, we wont see 8 HTC WP7 phones every year (since there is no point considering WP7's high standards)...thats a good thing. WP7 is putting out a clear and sweeping OS that has one message WE ARE BETTER. I think the average user will be sucked away from Iphone back into Windows because Windows is totally committed to bring a user experience that is uniform across all platforms. If I have a PC and an XBox...WP7 is a no brainer. 23 Million XBox users...thats a lot of people. RANT END/
Thats all my personal opinion though. Butler youre right about not being able to set certain programs as default. As MS is using BING to search, and IE for internet etc....I don't think you'll be able to switch it to opera on the fly. But you can always just select Opera from the programs list or just tag it to HUBs and just select it from there. Although I believe that with the fact that MS has been sued recently in EU for not offering people a choice for their browsing for their PC I'm confident in saying that Opera might still have the option to set at default (as it currently does). We will see though. Its kinda a stretch to relate PC to WP7 as is because its still in rough beta.
~style1~
style1 said:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
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This makes sense. People will often require a number of features from a phone and unless it ticks those boxes extra features are not important.
"Windows Phone 7" is missing a lot of basic features. If they are not important to you, good for you, but you seem to be in two minds about that. When there are a lot of decent phone OSes on the market you shouldn't have much need to compromise.
well yeah of course, but its not like any of these features are totally missing...they've just been reinvented or reinvisioned, so to speak. I look it it this way, why do I copy and paste? Because I want to take info from one program and transfer it or send it to another. MS has determined (again, I'm sure the put some R&D into it) that most people don't even use it so much so they created a NEW system that allows you to do basically the exact same thing, take info and transfer it, without all the fuss. Its still copying and pasting. I dunno. I believe innovation something to embrace, it moves the industry foward. Because all these guys compete for our business they drive each other bigger and better. But it seems that keeping up with the old outdated ideas is all that people care about. I mean, the Iphone doesnt NEED copy and paste. It functioned just as well without it. The big problem with it was they had NO alternative to make people say oh well thats just as good. So what do they do? They add vanilla copy and paste. Consumers drive innovation in that sense. My wife for the life of her can't understand this huge hype about multitasking. She believes her Iphone is just fine. She can listen to music, she gets her push notifications when she needs them...shes a happy camper. She doesn't get it. I try to explain to her how its important, but regardless she wont get it because it doesn't fit her lifestyle. How many people does something like that matter to, honestly? I get MS' approach....it makes sense. The average consumer would rather have things be simple, would rather have things done for them; than actively doing them for themselves. The exception to this is WebOS because its driven by the idea of multitasking. And how innovative is that. The homescreen is the taskmanager. Its a great way to make the idea of actively managing open apps seem like it is something that you are in control of, not like WM or android (where you just get massive lag) where it seems like the open programs are something thats controlling you.
Different strokes for different folks though. But hey remember how many of those basic required features that the original Iphone launched with? lol Looking back it was laughable how fail that phone was, but it sold out the stores like a champ. Its not about the basic features. Its about the innovation behind it. Apple invented the wheel all over again. MS has to invent the V8.
~style1~
Personally, I was looking forward to WP7.
But:
1) No Multi-Tasking (I don't count push notifications as multi-tasking)
2) No Copy/Paste
3) No removable Storage
4) No 'Use as USB device'
Are pretty big dealbreakers for me. These were all things in favor over the iPhone (except c&p since last year), and now they're going to handicap us :|
Thanks for being a voice of reason style
sevenprx,
windows does have their own take on C&P as well as multitasking. It in fact does do both, just not in the way thats been the industry standard so people are considering it NOT there even though it clearly is. I believe you should check out engadget where they do have a few good articles and clips.
1) Copy and Paste Here (even with the misleading headline its informative)
2) multitasking HERE
3) Removable storage is a big issue. I think most will be appeased by massive 32 gig phones but alot (myself included) of people wont. But in terms of solving problems it saves a few headaches for MS in the development process. I do believe MS told us during the keynote (or somewhere during that time, I cannot remember) that developers can have internal SD for more memory, but it is kinda a bummer for me to not have removable Cards. Its basically to keep this phone as unhackable as possible.
4) No use as a USB device...this too is a killer, as I mentioned earlier I do use my phone to store info on. Its a daily thing. Since I can't access my phone through activesync it makes all this info useless. Its like they only want use USB to move photos and music...THATS IT. I'm not sure if thats the best strategy but, for those to whom this is dealbreaker for, they are probably happy as sheep with 6.5 so it won't be too much of a deal for MS. Which of course still makes the HD2 an extremely viable phone at one helluva price.
~style~
Thanks mazzarin
I'm still looking forward to WP7. It has a lot of very intriguing features and I like the look of the UI.
As far as multi-tasking goes it will work with my needs. I can alway have a webpage up in the background, I can alway have music playing in the background. Any core feature of the UI like calls, SMS, email can all run the the background and one 3rd party app. Honestly, I hardly ever use multiple 3rd party apps to begin with.
I don't use copy and paste very much. I think I can say I've used it about 5 times since I've had my device and honestly it was so much of a pain to use that a couple of those time I gave up and just wrote it down and re-typed it.
I would really live to have removable storage. I just hope phones with 32GB flash come out. I can fill 8GB pretty easily.
I use my phone as a USB device a lot just to transfer big files. This is honestly one of the biggest things I don't like.
Look, I'm all for defending Microsoft but the one thing you glossed over is the one real dealbreaker.
No copy and paste? How basic yet essential is that? If you've only used it 5 times in 5 years I don't know what you've been doing with your phone, but other people bought a phone with Outlook and Office and web browsers for a reason. Data detection is not going to let me email a paragraph or search for a sentence.
"Multitasking": No problem, pause the apps for when I come back to them. I don't have to close them myself, cool.
No USB file access: Pain in the neck, sucks for us, but if we store only files that apps on the phone handle (music, documents, etc) then at least we can still use the device as intended. It just won't be a flash drive
No removable card: Very stupid since I do actually pull out the card.. but the truth is that most people don't. MS and app developers have a much easier time knowing that the storage is always a part of the device, and they also don't have to be so scared of piracy. So it really really sucks that we can't expand storage, but at least the phone will still work.
So when you combine those last two, our main difficulty is moving files on and off the phone.. but it will sync files to our own accounts fine at least. even wirelessly. So the phone is still usable. But copy/paste? The phone is CRIPPLED without it
again, what as I said before, I actually did sit in on an conversation and demo where there same things you're saying about copy and paste were presented to the demo operators. Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS.
Honestly just like multitasking, its a non intrusive way of doing what people do anyway. And yes I have only used multitasking maybe 5 times. I honestly just don't need the feature. I mean, hell as there are millions of Iphone users what they were doing with their phones for the longest. It just isn't important to me. I use outlook, use push, I use Office and the web browsers but I never had to copy anything. I handle P&L's, I keep many office documents and I prepare powerpoint presentations as well having my phone linked to corporate accounts that I use to send this information out on a system wide level. I haven't seen the use for copy and paste because honestly I send complete documents so I only need fowarding.... Occasionally I may just copy an email account and paste it into my recipients list but WP7 is capable of doing this...I witnessed it myself.
~style1~
Very rationale styles1. I like your thinking with some valid points. I still believe that wm has been around this long because of xda and every developer and user that uses their brain to tweak and modify to each individuals liking, including ms/htc and xda developers. Taking this away, takes the dignity away from ms and xda users. i have been a long time wm user since i was a kid back in the early 80s. the ONLY reason i don't have an iphone and not jumped ship like my dad, sister, brother in law, friends is because of the features that wm has had over the years. the ability to cut & paste, the ability to use storage cards, the ability to control the phone. I use all these features. Not every day, but I use them. And it's more than 5 times in 5 years. I guarantee everybody on here, and probably yourself, would be lyng if you said just 5 times. Try 10 or 20 times, but how is your memory so good and that you can count with your fingers to just 5. Anyhow, I'm not here to argue. These simple/essential things are actually quite vital to the average xda user like myself. I've read thousands of messages on here from chainfire, to abu, to duty, to dave shaw, mskipp and to every other developer on here. They are my true heroes, they have made the wm phone viable, with dignity. For an analogy, you can drive a cadilac or a mercedes. But your gonna tweak up a hyndai or honda and tell me it's the same and gonna be better than a mercedes. If honda were gonna tweak up there car and charge 75,000 and say they are just as good, then I'm just gonna buy one. hmmm. we (ms) is competeing against iphones? are we really competing against them, or are we competing against ourselves (wm 7 vs wm 6.5/6.0/5.0...) To take away all these essentials, would be taking away life. Variety and Substance is the essential part of life. I hate e-readers, yet I don't like reading books either. However, I'd rather read a book where I can locate a page, then read off an e-reader. I think XDA developers and the common user like myself have spoken loud and clearly, there are really no winners in this case. This is not your win-win scenario......What do I know, I'm just a geeky medical doctor writing with no substance.
well I didn't originally say only five times...I said maybe 5 times. I'm not a fun user I'm mostly a heavy poweruser. But as most of the people on here I am extremely mod heavy. So yeah, I get it. But developers here will still be able to use this site for 6.5 as well as 7. People have to understand a couple things first and foremost. First, if developers don't support WP7, WP7 won't move foward. They can also support 6.5 as well as WP7 and not have to PICK SIDES. This isn't about "oh they got rid of features I need, FAIL" this is about a platform as a whole. 6.5 isn't going anywhere soon. Keep it alive but embrace the future as well. I don't like the thinking that goes into a lot of the bashing that happens. I mean if we're going to use cars for examples let me throw one out there.
I used to drive a Ford Fusion, when it rained I would turn on my wind shield wipers. Last year I upgraded to a E class Mercedes...now when it rains my windshield wipers turn themselves on. I like the fact that I don't have to worry about something so trivial as to turn the wipers on and then get them at a pace that isn't excessive or less than what current rain speed is. Its a system that reacts to whats happening around it and assumes the likely reaction.
I think thats similar to the changes WP7 is making to amend some of the issues with WM6+. But of course thats just my opinion.
I personally, however, hope that developers here don't just shun WP7 because its different and embrace it as an opportunity to develop for a new platform, increase their product visibility and most important to make revenue off of their hard work. Donations are fine but being able to actually get paid for your work makes for a new scenarios that aren't currently available to developer here at XDA and as we all know money drives innovation.
~style1~
style1 said:
Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS
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No sir, no... I don't know what your definition of 'almost' is but I know that by definition "smartlinking" only works on structured data.. phone numbers, addresses, etc. If I wanted to paste another quote from your comment right here --> there's absolutely no way for smartlinking to do that.
Copy/Paste. Why does anyone even need to be arguing and making excuses for this? It's just basic and shouldn't have had to be left out or delayed. They have so many ways to implement it
if you read my post 6 i actually talk about what I saw in a live demo...actually I'll just quote it for ease of reading(I guess i will use copy and paste just for the hell of it....lol):
"microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all."
So yeah, I agree with you 100%...its not true copy and paste. It is however an alternative. And I know no matter what microsoft does, if they miss one step it comes out to be a deal breaker. But come-on, This is pushing it. I honestly sat there and watched almost (again I say almost) every copy and paste feature put to test, and the only thing it cannot do (copy from browser to insert elsewhere) ends up being like the worlds biggest issue. I have brought up some other FAAAAAAAR bigger issues, as well as provided some good reasoning and insight as to a lot of other system functions and we keep coming back to this extremely small issue. I honestly didn't know that so many people copy and paste from the browser. According to MS, people just don't do that, but apparently all the people who "do do that" are all on XDA...lol. But I guess that makes you right, though, people should be able to copy from the browser and paste elsewhere. Unfortunately WP7 won't support that at launch. What else can I say?
~style1~
No they don't provide an alternative, they provide alternatives to some use cases. No, copy from browser to insert elsewhere isn't the only use case, there have been numerous examples I won't copy here, you're just not paying attention to what people say.
No there aren't bigger issues as many of those can be resolved by hacking. C&P can't.
I personally find copy and paste indispensable and use it daily. One of the places I use it is to copy the website address and paste it into my mail and share it with my friends. Sometimes, I also copy of some useful information from the website to save it into my note application for future references. Then there are some forums that I visit daily where the only way to reply with quote is to highlight and copy the portion of the post first. Bottom line is copy and paste is completely necessary. MS has not done the research thoroughly or given it enough thoughts IMO.
As to multitasking, I almost always have more than one third party programs running. One of the scenarios is to listen to my favourite internet radio (which are oversea stations sometimes) while reading my 1000+ entries in my RSS google reader newsreader application.
Let's hope MS read these posts and come to their senses.
I am currently in this dilemma, so I just wanted to put my thoughts out there(not trying to start a flame war here) and also (hopefully) get some thoughts from current wp7 users.
My biggest deterrent from wp7 is device quality, all the manufacturers seem to have been very careful not to step on MS's toes for the start, though MWC may change that(hopefully the new devices would be different from the same system and we may see tegra 2 or the new MSM chip, which looks absolutely amazing I must add)
The things that attract me specifically to the OS is the new UI, as it is finally a shift from the more symbian type of UI.
The downside is that some of the parts of the OS are unfinished, no threaded messages, socket support is a no show. Simply put, as it is now, it is amazing BUT, it is also flawed.
Android now has a far more mature OS which is feature complete. But the UI is still very similar to the old main menu with a grid of icons. Yes, there are widgets but, it can get a bit cluttered and, unlike the current symbian, they can be in different styles.
Hardware on the otherhand is absolutely amazing, the nexus s would easily go up there as a device of choice!
Obviously fragmentation is an issue, look at the galaxy s which will probably take 6 months to get 2.3 (nexus s will not have this issue). Wp7 still has to prove itself in this department.
Apps is once again a maturity argument, though I do want to support luma arcade ( South African devs) and the fact that I know c# means that I could make something myself is a plus side.
That bit though was just opinion.
In the end it is pretty much looking to be device quality that is keeping me away from wp7 though. If all goes to plan it will be a platform that can hang with Android in terms of usability, though it still needs a bit to get there.
Android on the other hand has basically only one device that would intrest me as I wouldn't want to be left out of the official loop.
I know that xda does cook roms for Android devices, but I like that to be a secondary option(once again opinion)
To explain my thoughts I think I need to add what I am using now as a phone.
Nokia 5800 Xpressmusic with C6 firmware as a base. Then I took a whole bunch of other mods and cooked them into my own personal firmware.
I don't have the experience( or at this moment need) to make my own mods.
I like tweaking it to get the best performace and usability while still looking as good as possible and am very willing to sacrifice a looks for usability.
(Once again I really just want this to be an outsiders view on choosing between the two)
EDIT: Looks like I was wrong in that threaded messaging does exist on wp7, just not in email.
Gee, only the fifth thread this week on the exact same subject. Despite there being a thread right above it aptly titled Android vs WP7.
Whatever you can afford and makes you happy my friend. Go for it. These are exciting times.
Just to correct one point you made, there are currently threaded messages in WP7 and they work great.
I've used both android and wp7 and I prefer wp7, but it's probably because I hate having to get custom roms etc. I spent literally tens of hours attempting to customise my android device to my liking but never managed it. In my opinion, the wp7 homescreen gives me all the info i need at a glance - better than I could ever make my android handset.
But it sounds like you like to tinker and customise, so I'm not sure if WP7 will be able to keep you interested for the long haul until custom roms become available
Use what you think will work best for you, in the end, i reckon both are great OSes
i believe he was referring to email threading.
if you have time to wait, see what gets announced at MWC. there is rumour of some pretty big stuff coming, but who knows if its just minor software/more hardware.
Android gives more options in many ways today.
I had the same dillema but have chosen different solution: I stay with WinMo for some time.
Because I can't stand Android UI. Really.Too much candy.
I bought WP7 just today and WHAT IS there, is outstanding.
Problem is many things are missing so far, so knowing my scenario I don't imagine beeing able to rely only on this.
But the WP7 experience is just amazing.
You like to tinker with your phone then I think you better suit with Android.
I'm afraid if you buy WP7 now, you will be disappointed.
doministry said:
I bought WP7 just today and WHAT IS there, is outstanding.
Problem is many things are missing so far, so knowing my scenario I don't imagine beeing able to rely only on this.
But the WP7 experience is just amazing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This about sums it up. Are there features missing in WP7? Absolutely. I won't get into it here, check out out one of the flame wars in the other threads. BUT...what WP7 does, it does exceptionally well. You need to decide if you can live with its shortcomings. If you can't, then get another platform. If you can, then definitely get WP7. It will blow you away. But that's a big "if", and be certain about it. Do your research and make an informed decision or end up like one of the disgruntled curmudgeons in this forum.
-R
Thank you for all the replies, I think waiting a month or two to see what happens won't kill me.
For living with shortcomings of an operating system, I use symbian on old hardware and actually enjoy it so, I can easily survive a missing feature or two in return for performance.
Info at a glance is a great thing, and when I tinkered on the emulator it seemed as if it had depth to it as well ( my iPod touch on the other hand has the depth of a puddle in a drought, : none)
These are exiting times indeed! Now I just read another article implying nokia might make wp7 phones. That would be very intresting indeed.
yea, though i think it will be quite some time before this happens but who knows. anyways, what i'd suggest is just head to your local store and see if you can play with one, check out the messaging, people, photos, xbox, zune, and office hubs and see what the phone is all about. but yes there are missing features. another 7 or 8 months isn't the best thing to wait for, but aye, we waited this long and i'm happy with what i got.
Well, no stores have stock in South Africa. It is a special order, which would mean that I would anyway import my own at a lower cost.
But you are right. Being able to use the device itself would be the best thing.
Although we already have this thread: [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7?
As it closed due to flames and many wars, I'll leave this thread open and the [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7? closed up permanently.
Just be careful not to turn this new thread in flame and war, because if that happens, I'll close this and any that begin to compare the two OS.
mmelo76 said:
Although we already have this thread: [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7?
As it closed due to flames and many wars, I'll leave this thread open and the [Q] Telefone Android x Windows 7? closed up permanently.
Just be careful not to turn this new thread in flame and war, because if that happens, I'll close this and any that begin to compare the two OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
might just be easier to ban tomhierl from wp7 threads and you would clear up 90% of the abuse and flames in one hit.
As to the original question it really depends on what you want from the phone as they are no a direct competition for each other other than both being smart phones.
Android is amazing for openess features customization but lacks in style smoothness apps that take advantage of the power on most devices (still feel old but work ok) and its music ability is pretty dire.
WP7 plus is its style smoothness use of hubs (you have to use them to realize how great they are (and no the fact that other phones mix up you contacts and facebook is not the same thing)) its music features are far beyond anything on the market inc iphone in fact makes iphone look old in this area and its xbox live integration (there is already a cross platform mulit-player game in the market and thats just a sign of whats to come) what you do lack is certain features some high end users need like tethering and mass storage etc
So the question shouldnt be what one is best but what one is best for you, I say go try a demo of wp7 it really is something new and refreshing.
lumpaywk, I understand what you're saying.
However I believe people can mature and improve.
Although the user that you commented cause flames, other users who respond to provocation are as guilty as he.
If only one claim and ignore the others and tells moderation, it's easy, go there and issue a ban.
Now when a user calls and the others start a fight, what can I do? Ban for everyone? Of course not.
As I reported in other forums, I always try to clarify my views on the subject and then put the warning.
Thereafter, any user who does not heed the advice, either by starting a fight or to continue it, will be issued an infraction, not accepting and continuing in error, then a ban.
I always try to guide and give some chance, only if he do not understand this and I'll ban is persisting.
You are probably right but try putting tomheirl and troll into google - I think the results speak for themselves.
Tone_ said:
You are probably right but try putting tomheirl and troll into google - I think the results speak for themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me. But I can only temper what is done on the XDA and I am notified.
can not run the risk of being influenced by research done on google. Though reliable, can highlight only one side of the story of the people, perhaps the worst.
I prefer to follow my systematic already established and that is getting results. Nor am I the only one moderator, and can be advised by other Comite or Seniors, so I must restrict myself to what I see here on XDA forum, without external reference!
Still, I appreciate your help and research, will certainly be very useful for all of us in moderation!
i first played with wp7 in the store, and it felt totally not for me
however under the pressure of getting something new, i still got the wp7 cuz it was different.
now i LOVE it, really, in some ways the custumization is super limited, but its not that needed. the ui really works so well that yes you feel bored having only it, but it just works too well to have anything else.
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.
cenkaetaya said:
i first played with wp7 in the store, and it felt totally not for me
however under the pressure of getting something new, i still got the wp7 cuz it was different.
now i LOVE it, really, in some ways the custumization is super limited, but its not that needed. the ui really works so well that yes you feel bored having only it, but it just works too well to have anything else.
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something I can actually help with!
For this, you would have to make sure(obviously) that the cd has all it's tags for the same album. If not, then just make an album called mix cd 1 or something and put all the songs in that.
OR
Make a playlist with those songs in and sync.
Michael_W_L said:
Obviously fragmentation is an issue, look at the galaxy s which will probably take 6 months to get 2.3 (nexus s will not have this issue). Wp7 still has to prove itself in this department
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was reading that MS will control updates, not relying on the service providers. I think that is a very good thing. My HTC Vogue never got a single update from Bell. However, HTC did have updates, I just had to go find them. If MS maintians control, updates should reach the users much faster.
cenkaetaya said:
my main gripe is the crappy media player
i cant search a specific song, no playing by folders, no nice list to play from.
its total crap, i cant wait till they release a normal player that can just play a list of music from a folder, and i can search a specific song i want.
how the hell am i supposed to play a mix cd i downloaded with 15 different artists on it?
by finding them 1 at a time through album or artist.
**** like this pisses me off
including the ZUNE SOFTWARE will not allow you to play music by folders
i literally have NO way to listen to a cd that has all different names in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
though there is no direct search, under music, go across to songs and use the letter blocks for quick jumps to the song you want to play (as if you would in the people's hub).
I haven't done so myself, but based on what I see in the playlists section, you should be able to make playlists off Zune Desktop, and sync the playlist to your phone. this should help, but yea there is no direct "play folder", but if you have the tags setup as mentioned before, they appear in albums, or create a playlist. But i think they need to improve it a bit more so you can create a playlist on the phone too.
Hey guys, I need your opinion on an important decision I'll be making soon. I'm due for an upgrade at the end of January and I have been debating between getting the iPhone 4 or Samsung Focus. I currently have an iPad, so I'm not sure if I will be concerned not having the huge app ecosystem on WP7 because I will have it with the iPad. When I used the Samsung Focus for the first time I thought WP7 was absolutely fantastic; everything was very fluid and vibrant. I'm just not sure if Microsoft is really committed to making WP7 a true competitor. With the iPhone I know it's OS is already matured and Apple releases a major update each year that most of the iPhone's get.
If anyone here can offer up a recommendation it would be much appreciated. This will be my first smartphone (although I know a lot about the major OS's) and want to make sure I get a phone that is going to be well worth it (I don't like Android or BlackBerry, sorry).
EDIT
Sorry, I should have elaborated. I basically want a phone that's good for texting (software keyboard on WP7 is great), fast in general (specifically the browser), has a few good time passing games (more heavy gaming would be done on my Playstation), good facebook support (which WP7 seems to support immensely), good for music/videos, good camera/video quality (I like the iPhone's HDR option, is there an app for that on WP7?) and good call quality/reception. I must admit I like apps, but not to the point that I have withdrawals for not having the same ones on each platform. It seems app development is picking up on WP7 with 100 apps a day and there are already some decent apps I would be using (flixster, IMDB, shazam, etc).
The iPhone has all these things and does them really well, but I feel like iPhone's are becoming a dime a dozen nowadays so I kinda want something that is a little bit different (has to be good though).
Someone asked why I don't like Android and BlackBerry so I guess I will explain (please don't get mad, its just my personal opinion). I've used Android on numerous occasions, but I don't like how it feels for some reason, nor do I like how the carriers customize its phone's interface with crappy skins and fail to update it promptly. I know you can do a lot with rooting, but it being my personal phone I would rather not risk losing data by tempering with it. Regarding BlackBerry's I need a phone with a touchscreen and I think the only BlackBerry at AT&T with a touchscreen is the BlackBerry Torch. When I used it, it just seemed so much slower and more bothering then it was fun to use. I'm not a corporate executive (I'm a senior in high school) that needs a phone to handle 100's of emails perfectly so I would rather not purchase one.
Hey man,
It really depends on what you want to use your phone for. It also depends on whether or not you want to make calls with your left hand (ha).
Seriously, though, I've got a WP7 device and my brother has an iPhone 4. For me, the biggest difference between the two is convenience. I have my upcoming appointments, weather, latest photos, facebook updates, emails and texts all on my homescreen, and most of the information I need day-to-day is available without having to dive into an app. When I had an iPhone, the homescreen's lack of functionality really began to frustrate me, and doing a lot of tasks became laborious.
That said, though, try both and see which you like. Obviously, the iPhone has the edge in apps but if you've got an iPad you can take advantage of iOS's huge store. Of course, the vastness of that store can be a blessing and a curse - in my experience WP7 apps tend to be of a higher standard, visually and functionally.
Basically, I don't see how you can go wrong with this choice. Both are great devices. I'd recommend Wp7 because for me it's more useful, and if you've got an iPad you can still get your angry birds fix. Anyway, try both and you can't go wrong.
Cheers
ErikWithNoC said:
Hey guys, I need your opinion on an important decision I'll be making soon. I'm due for an upgrade at the end of January and I have been debating between getting the iPhone 4 or Samsung Focus. I currently have an iPad, so I'm not sure if I will be concerned not having the huge app ecosystem on WP7 because I will have it with the iPad. When I used the Samsung Focus for the first time I thought WP7 was absolutely fantastic; everything was very fluid and vibrant. I'm just not sure if Microsoft is really committed to making WP7 a true competitor. With the iPhone I know it's OS is already matured and Apple releases a major update each year that most of the iPhone's get.
If anyone here can offer up a recommendation it would be much appreciated. This will be my first smartphone (although I know a lot about the major OS's) and want to make sure I get a phone that is going to be well worth it (I don't like Android or BlackBerry, sorry).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought an HD7...WP7 phone... and am now angry that MS has shoved the full compliment of features way out almost a year from now. WP7 is basically featureless when compared to the iPhone or any Android phone. You don't get voice nav, copy & Paste, custom ringtones, wifi tethering, customized interface, multi-tasking and a lot of other useful stuff already present on the iPhone or Android. MS says it will be doing any updating itself. But their idea of a considerable update is adding copy & paste.
My view is that WP7 is a dead system based on what has already transpired with it and what it currently is. The UI and system is very nice, but you can find just as nice a system in a non-smartphone and still have the same amount of features, or generally more.
However, if you want the phone for media purposes, it makes an outstanding ZuneHD. Movie playing is excellent and the use of Zune desktop is perfection.
If you go with a WP7, I recommend the HD7, don't expect any other functionality than a simple cellphone and media player. You get to play games with it too, so consider that as well. Don't expect extensive updating either. MS seems to be taking a purely conservative tact with WP7 and any significant updates...bringing extensive features...will be way out into the future. Also consider the latest bug, which has the data and wifi using excessive amounts while in standby. It might put a hurt on anyone with limited data packages.
Depends on what you want out of your phone. Without that information, the best advice I can give/ way to frame this is that it boils down to one important aspect:
Do you want variety? If you get an iPhone4, you are basically getting a smaller iPad (I own an iPad, so not knocking just saying), but you also get to share apps between the two, music, etc. If you get a WP7, you are getting and entirely new experience and platform. You will be getting duplicates of apps and in many cases music, etc.
For me, I love variety. I have several Android phones, a couple BBs, an iPad, and am getting an HD7 very soon. But I am also a cell phone salesman, so knowing every OS is vital to helping customers get the right phone. I am also a tech geek, so having different gadgets is exciting. Lastly, I am a curious person by nature and don't like not knowing first hand.
So, do you want variety (with the caveat of not having a unified experience) or do you want a unified experience across all your gadgets?
zuka right, it is about what your needs are.
I have the LG Quantum, i am in love, i need the keyboard, and i really like the "spell check" in it, i also have used the camera button more than once. WP7 has a flow to it and after using it for a bit you will like having that back button, i use it alot when my girlfriend txts me in the middle of something and i dont have to think about where i was in the UI. the iPhone is great but the GUI is feeling a little dated to me.
MartyLK said:
I bought an HD7...WP7 phone... and am now angry that MS has shoved the full compliment of features way out almost a year from now. WP7 is basically featureless when compared to the iPhone or any Android phone. You don't get voice nav, copy & Paste, custom ringtones, wifi tethering, customized interface, multi-tasking and a lot of other useful stuff already present on the iPhone or Android. MS says it will be doing any updating itself. But their idea of a considerable update is adding copy & paste.
My view is that WP7 is a dead system based on what has already transpired with it and what it currently is. The UI and system is very nice, but you can find just as nice a system in a non-smartphone and still have the same amount of features, or generally more.
However, if you want the phone for media purposes, it makes an outstanding ZuneHD. Movie playing is excellent and the use of Zune desktop is perfection.
If you go with a WP7, I recommend the HD7, don't expect any other functionality than a simple cellphone and media player. You get to play games with it too, so consider that as well. Don't expect extensive updating either. MS seems to be taking a purely conservative tact with WP7 and any significant updates...bringing extensive features...will be way out into the future. Also consider the latest bug, which has the data and wifi using excessive amounts while in standby. It might put a hurt on anyone with limited data packages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never seen someone complain sooooo much and blame other soooo much over something that is their fault. If you wanted a phone that could do your dishes for you, you should have gotten that, not a just launched brand new smartphone OS that EVERYONE knew had limited features out of the box, and would be looking at least a year of updates to get every feature of the other OSs.
You also seem to ignore the simple fact that it took Android two years to get universal copy/paste, and only 2.3 phones have that. You also forget the iPhone took 3 years to get wallpapers.
Tell you what, sending a PM your way.
It is all comes down to the personal choice.
All WP7 devices are built around the same specs pretty much, what makes Focus stand out is its screen IMHO. I do not own neither iPhon4 nor WP7, but I have a Galaxy S with the same screen as the Focus, believe me it is a joy to have it.
iPhone4 retina display is another marvel on its own, but I think 4" screen on Samsung is the balance between real estate and the visual quality.
Of course coming here you will get more favorable opinions towards WP7, but do your research on the choices you might have. AT&T is not big on the Android offerings, but Captivate offers the same screen as Focus, but in different OS implementation.
Good luck on your choice!
pjcforpres said:
I have never seen someone complain sooooo much and blame other soooo much over something that is their fault. If you wanted a phone that could do your dishes for you, you should have gotten that, not a just launched brand new smartphone OS that EVERYONE knew had limited features out of the box, and would be looking at least a year of updates to get every feature of the other OSs.
You also seem to ignore the simple fact that it took Android two years to get universal copy/paste, and only 2.3 phones have that. You also forget the iPhone took 3 years to get wallpapers.
Tell you what, sending a PM your way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moot point on the C&P on Android and wallpapers on iPhone, all offering on the market now already have it and a lot more.
juist out of interest, OP, why don't you like android or blackberries?
It depends OP. Are you interested in participating in an Open Beta? If so.. WP7 is for you.
lqaddict said:
Moot point on the C&P on Android and wallpapers on iPhone, all offering on the market now already have it and a lot more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, Android still doesn't have universal copy/paste unless you have a Nexus S. And you totally missed the point; the point was that features take time to be developed and implemented. I was simply pointing out how long other platforms took to get those features; features that WM had from the get go, and in the case of wallpapers, basic phones had for years.
pjcforpres said:
No, Android still doesn't have universal copy/paste unless you have a Nexus S. And you totally missed the point; the point was that features take time to be developed and implemented. I was simply pointing out how long other platforms took to get those features; features that WM had from the get go, and in the case of wallpapers, basic phones had for years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can just select, copy and paste on my 2.2. What are you talking about?
I get an email with a WPA key, I select it, copy, and paste it into my WiFi settings app.
I am on the call, I receive a phone number from the other party, I open (mind you while on the call) a memopad app, type down the phone number, select it, copy. I end the call, I paste the number into the dialer and I am calling that phone number - I was doing it on 2.1.
lqaddict said:
I can just select, copy and paste on my 2.2. What are you talking about?
I get an email with a WPA key, I select it, copy, and paste it into my WiFi settings app.
I am on the call, I receive a phone number from the other party, I open (mind you while on the call) a memopad app, type down the phone number, select it, copy. I end the call, I paste the number into the dialer and I am calling that phone number - I was doing it on 2.1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can only copy and paste from input fields. Some skinned versions have it expanded a bit more than that, but not much. Try going to a website filled with text, and just copy pasting... better yet, try and copy paste from gmail.
Not sure how you can copy paste a WPA key from an email unless it is hyper-linked or you are using a 3rd party app that enables it. I have been using Android since the G1 was released, and without modding my phone, have never been able to copy paste beyond input fields, and can't find anything explaining how to on the interwebs other than apps that require root, with one exception, get a Nexus S with 2.3 on it.
pjcforpres said:
You can only copy and paste from input fields. Some skinned versions have it expanded a bit more than that, but not much. Try going to a website filled with text, and just copy pasting... better yet, try and copy paste from gmail.
Not sure how you can copy paste a WPA key from an email unless it is hyper-linked or you are using a 3rd party app that enables it. I have been using Android since the G1 was released, and without modding my phone, have never been able to copy paste beyond input fields, and can't find anything explaining how to on the interwebs other than apps that require root, with one exception, get a Nexus S with 2.3 on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want a demo? I will shoot one just for you, sorry OP cluttered your thread a bit here.
Don't know about stock, my phone is not stock.
The latest GMail app includes select text option that puts it into the clipboard.
lqaddict said:
You want a demo? I will shoot one just for you, sorry OP cluttered your thread a bit here.
Don't know about stock, my phone is not stock.
The latest GMail app includes select text option that puts it into the clipboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well and my point is that it is already present in the current offerings, no need to beat the old horse, we are not in 2007 anymore where WP7 seem to be stuck at the moment.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what you are saying is, the technology was invented years ago, but MS is too ignorant to understand it and port it?
By the way, please stop going off topic. The OP asked for user experience, I gave my experience. Your other post was completely uncalled for and off topic.
pjcforpres said:
Sorry, forgot they added menu, select text, for gmail and the browser... clearly I am not a copy paste user on my phones.
None the less, my entire point still stands. It took a long time for these "basic" features to even appear on these phones, and still don't even exist fully implemented. If MS delivers on the universal copy/paste they are suggesting, they will have done something in 3 months it took apple 2+ years to do, and took Android 2 years to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from kindle says it is a universal c&p system for both third party and microsoft proprietary programs
I think a lot of people are being very hard on microsoft right now. There are features that the OS does not provide but it doesn't make me want to go back to any other OS because the experience is poor. I think microsoft has a pretty good 1.0 base with the initial update, I feel surpassing google g1 and android 1.5. there are things I still want from the OS but so far not too shabby
Jesus, can't you guys go one thread without desolving into an android vs wp7 flame war?
Just try and be constructive and answer the guy's question.
The answer to OP is:
Search and browse a lot, see reviews and criticisms of the gadget, then try to "take in the hand" and finally choose.
Avoid opening in this thread. Only generates flame.
Closed Thread.
Have you read about Brandon Watson's challenge to Molly Wood? What about her first impressions? Do you feel her complaints are valid?
Please don't derail this thread into an Android/W7 argument (again!), she happens to have lots of followers and any of her criticism will resonate with many and in my opinion will help address some things faster (some things she hasn't discovered yet so try to give a her break on that).
I'm not running Mango so I'd like to hear from people who do and know if they agree with what she has to say.
http://news.cnet.com/molly-rants/
The only problem with her review is that too many of her "cons" are simply based on ignorance (and I don't mean that in a pejorative sense). She didn't know the correct way to do something on WP7, and tried to apply Android techniques. When they didn't work, she assumed that the feature was either broken or missing.
If her followers read those criticisms and assume she is right, it may prevent them from giving WP7 a fair chance on their own.
Yep. Tis already begun. Two commenters have said they won't buy based on "Molly's impressions" and "little annoyances" she's described.
Her only real beef should be with the navigation. Outside of that, she has an argument as to comparitive number of apps. Yet, she hasn't explored the marketplace thoroughly enough to actually talk about what's there. She just knows two apps she uses aren't there.
I'd give her some time with it and I'm certain she'll clear up some of the things she's already posted which are incorrect.
She will... She complained before on her podcast about not having an app for facebook chat then corrected it on her blog after she was told it's built-in. Hopefully the listeners also read the blog, otherwise some might be a lost cause already.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I'm really glad she's made such a fuss over the navigation and I really hope Microsoft pay attention. It's bloody stupid as it is - not matter what the reasons may be (I've heard licencing issues?) Microsoft need to sort this out.
She has some other valid points, but she hasn't (as she admits) touched upon a lot of the more unique features of WP7.5
Casey
Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Peew971 said:
Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure hope it is, because as it now stands, you can guarantee that it will be the cause of a lot of mocking from Android users. And comments such as this one I read on the article page aren't going to help much either:
Well Molly I have to say I actually enjoy the navigation. Think about it, if everyone's satnav did this, that commercial where the guy is driving his car and his wife calls and then the satnav (which is a woman's voice, btw) goes, 'Motel is on the right' and the wife goes, 'MOTEL?!? **CLICK**' that would never happen. While I agree it is a bit of an annoyance, I like it better. And it's fun when it congratulates you. Didn't you say you like the "pretty sounds?" Well when you do something right, it makes a pretty sound. so, please don't harp on what is probably the best implementation of navigation in the history of cell phones. Also, The thing I don't like about other satnav implementations, is that they get annoying. "In 1.5mi. turn left onto Camino St. then turn left onto Avery Avenue" then .25 mi later it says nearly exactly the same thing. For me what's great about the Mango implementation is that you only have to listen to the annoying computerized lady voice when you forget what your next turn should be. That's the brilliance of the Mango implementation.
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Click to collapse
It's one thing to defend Microsoft for having no choice but to implement the system as it is due to licensing issues, but it's quite another to try to make the absurd claim that this system is better in any way. It's not.
it wasn't a biased or negative critique. id say it was spot on, by a regular user trying to use it as a daily driver. speaking of daily driver, I had no idea navigation was so broken. ugh !
yes, ios and android are mentioned .... if you are surprised or annoyed by this, smell some coffe. ios and android are dominating the market for a few reasons, this review sheds light on them.
improve and enjoy some success microsoft !
The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title
Peew971 said:
The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And also how can an average user FIND OUT that Facebook chat has an inbuilt Messenger?
Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.
I agree completely. She made so many mistakes and it was obvious she didn't bother researching any of her so called problems. The majority of the stuff she said wrong was corrected in her comments which she clearly didn't read. What a joke.
naplesbill said:
Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
was Molly Wood ever a man ?
Professor Simon Peach said:
was Molly Wood ever a man ?
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I dunno, but the poor girl looks 10 years older than she really is.
And a little less sex in the city marathons with a jar of burbon/jug of martini, and a little more technology knowledge would be nice. Especially for a CNET writer.
Outlook and calendar
Watching a relative of mine having the Galaxy II, then I really understand how far behind email and calendar is... I just can't believe that she couldn't see that!!!
Merging mailboxes with threaded email... Outlook, Gmail, Live and Facebook calendar all in one with different colors... even better than the pc-version
Someone should have assisted her with this... someone who understands the value of it...
All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.
if she got final mango like everyone else, there is a nice book to help the transition. right in the programs menu. with videos and text to speech for every, single, thing.
Peew971 said:
All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.
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Click to collapse
I agree.
If a person is coming from a standard phone to WP7 their impressions will be different, then those coming from another platform. I personally don't find any of the OS's easier or harder to use they're just different, with their own learning
curve. All reviewers bring their own personal bias into reviews IMO. The question is whether you think WP7 is better, not equal to other platforms. If you ask that type of question you have to take the good with the bad.
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.
phoneguy 4567 said:
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.
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Click to collapse
Than, they'd complain there's no default/built-in Turn by Turn Navigation. This is a no win scenario. People have to realize that MS was severely neutered by that anti-trust law suit. Now they are alot less aggressive & very careful so they are not sued again in this manor. Besides, people forget the 3rd Party apps like Garmin/etc & the fact that Nokia's map app is coming. The Mango Turn by Turn Navigation is nothing more than a way to tie people over till that comes.
Now, don't get me wrong, WP7 & Mango are far from perfect, but MS is working on it. They just posted a job listing to bring better PC/WP7 USB syncing of docs/etc.
Finally! Microsoft planning to connect Windows Phone and the desktop
Molly is supposed to be a power user btw, & she got so many things wrong in her review. I have to wonder if she even tried. It took her 2 weeks to set up WP7, it took me 2 hours tops. She must of never looked in the Office/Pictures Hub as she claims there's no Skydrive integration. Her review is nothing more than a joke. Scott Adams did a better review & he's an "average user," go figure.....
I think the only thing Molly can do now is to read up and post another review along the lines of "When I learnt how to use it" which should correct most of her errors.
Of course, as has been pointed out, if she genuinely made these errors then there must be a reason...(and I'm not going to say she's stupid).
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
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Click to collapse
Please not another thread like that. -_-
Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you will regret it , if you still want these features :
1- Bluetooth file transfer
2- ability to make folder
3 - icon view
4- rooting device
5- backing up ROM
6- backing up apps
7- much much more free apps and games
8- if you google around , you find paid apps for free
9- widgets
and alot more , but these are the most important features that are missing in WP7
If you think I helped , please hit thanks
...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard
arturobandini said:
Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?
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Click to collapse
Who said? Most sane WP7 users can acknowledge its not perfect but why is it this forum is filled mainly with threads criticizing WP7, mostly from people who dont use it? If they dont like it, why not post in forums of the OS they do like?
Thats the problem, this thread will be filled with posts by the usual haters spouting the same BS. By this time, 1 year later, shouldnt they have moved on to the platform that suits them? Yet any good point of WP7 is shouted down and discarded. You say people here arent ready to judge WP7 honestly, the haters are just as guilty of not being able to be honest and admit any positive in WP7.
---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ----------
arturobandini said:
...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rest my case.
Why are people keep comparing a 5+ yr old OS to a 1 yr OS is beyond me. We all know WP still have some growing to do. The rate it's growing is alot faster than we all anticipated.
I didn't mean to start any trouble... I really am just curious. I read a lot on engaget of windows 7 phones being efficient. My main question is what I want to do. I guess I'll stick to android and get the prime, and in 2 years rethink my options.
nevermind................
GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
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Click to collapse
agree with dkp1977...What an another troll-bait thread.
LOL,please close this thread man....there are dozens of similar thread out there.
lol..."troll bait"
Listen, I'm a former Windows Mobile user who can shed some light. When my HTC Tilt got long in the tooth, I spent some time on borrowed Android devices. My theory was that the new Windows Phone 7 would be too locked down, too much like the iPhone, and that I'd be moving to Android instead. I loved to tinker and try to get as much out of my Windows Mobile device as possible, so figured I'd want something more powerful.
I mostly tinkered on an HTC Aria, which probably isn't a great comparison being a budget Android device, but I was modestly impressed. It honestly felt somewhat like an upgraded Windows Mobile device. Flexible, lots of options, etc.
When I was finally ready to upgrade, my wife was pregnant and I had a second job. I found myself without time to flash ROMs to my Windows Mobile device, and so I'd be stuck on a ROM I was dissatisfied with for weeks before having time to sit down and flash another one. When things didn't work on my Windows Mobile device, I would get frustrated and give up. I had stopped surfing, tinkering, installing, customizing, flashing...in other words, I started to use my HTC Tilt as a phone only, and maybe for light text messaging.
As such, I decided on a WP7 instead of Android. Boy oh boy oh boy do I NOT regret that decision. I have never ONCE looked back, and pity the fella who is still on his HTC Aria that I had borrowed. I have a dozen different hotmail accounts (because they allow custom domains and I run some businesses) and an exchange account, and they work flawlessly. The integration of contacts, calendar, messaging, mail...it's beyond helpful. I don't have to start a Facebook app, a search app, a navigation app. I can just talk to my phone to perform a search of any kind, and the browsing experience is top-notch. Facebook is right there, "merging" duplicate contacts is a joy, and I've found just about every app I think I'd ever need (granted, I moved from Windows Mobile, so it's not like I'm missing an app I ever had on another device).
Bottom line for me: if I were still a tinkerer, I may have gone with Android and would recommend Android to tinkerers (although you can definitely tinker with a WP7, if you wanted to). However, if you find yourself too busy for tinkering or just want more out of life than staring at a 4" screen and making an OS look and work the way you want, get the Windows Phone. If you want a robust smartphone that just works well, performs so many tasks natively that you really don't care about your app count, doesn't even need customizing because it looks great and performs well, get a Windows Phone.
Not only have I not looked back, but I have converted fully 5 non-techie people to Windows Phone with a sixth (the Aria fella) well on the way!
PS: My mom, unfortunately, snagged an Android device (not sure the name, but it's T-Mobile 4"-ish Samsung device) because the salesperson told her that "Android has millions of apps and Windows Phone has hardly any, and apps are what matter." I could wring that little egghead's neck, because now I'm constantly getting calls from my Mom asking how to do things on her phone, and telling me she "hates this thing" and is "confused."
I just don't know why people who genuinely hate the OS continue to come to this section... I went from WinMo, to Android, used an iPhone for a while as well, and can tell you that WinPhone is the best there is, especially at its young age. These people who want to own a phone to have to flash it weekly, or daily, can keep their Androids.
Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.
Thanks your guy's insight. and you can tell i'm not a troll due to the fact if you look at my other topics started, I'm switching to verizon soon.
On the side note, for you wp7 people, do you guys go here for all your needs? like when I had an iphone i went to blah blah site, android is xda.
And I do flash A LOT. I almost wnat to break the habit. I liked cydia back on the iphone, I want the OS to be perfect, but if the apps arent, I want to fix that (thats what jailbreakign did me for the iphone)
I guess the main problem with windows 7 phones for me right now are:
No LTE? why not. If I'm going to Verizon shouldn't I get a LTE phone?
Pros:
I feel that it will give me "my life back". I'm not addicted to flashing phones, but it definately sucks that I probably send 30 mintes - hour a day scanning these forums about stuff and specs baout the "newest" phone. I see that wp7 phones aren't realized every 3 months, causing you not to regret your purchase.
Another question I have for the people who follow WP7 phones is, when are they going to release a new one for Verizon? Or ATT. But I think we are going to switch to Verizon.
mdcykkk9 said:
Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.
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Click to collapse
What do you mean by making phone calls and browse the internet? Are you saying the browse cause it doesn't have 4g?
And phone calls: why is that?
All I can say is I moved from WinMo-Android-WP7-Android.
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
I am one of those who wanted to use MS latest platform but discovered it's really not for me. Because even if the concept is really good and different, it's very limiting.
I wait to make my final judgement once I upgrade to Mango.
I think WP7 is perfect entry level OS, for people who are not crazy about the most advanced features. For less "business" or "pro" users it's perfect. It's for youngsters and people who don't need much but like reliability and simplicity.
Otherwise stay with Android because it's ahead in every regard.
So ask yourself why do you want to switch and what you expect from your future device.
@doministry: Moved to Android, yet still in the windows phone forums? Interesting.
I love these threads, though. They all end up the same in the end.
What most of us simpletons here, who are unable to fathom the depths of the advanced, Skynet-like Android, like about Windows Phone is that it's something new, something fresh. It's not the same ol' same ol' we've been accustom to from iphone and Android. Not that either of those two are bad. Actually, the opposite.
But, there's not really anything new there per se. Microsoft decided to go against the "Tried and True" and do something different. We will see in the long run if this pays off. But, every now and again, something comes along and changes our perceptions on what should be, the status quo as it were.
You ask about coming here for all your info. Well, come here in addition to going elsewhere. The problem here is that most are nerds and geeks thus they dig into things that most others wouldn't. Not many people care if you can reroute power from your phone to the dilithium crystals, and bleed some of that power out through the main deflector array. See? Nerd.
But, here at xda, if your phone doesn't do that then it's a failure. Let me clarify that. It's a failure to the Android fans whose phones are the best thing since Bell called Watson from the next room. There are actually quite a few of us that appreciate what Windows Phone has to offer, how far it's come, and how far it can potentially go.
Stick around for awhile though and you will find those who are quite informative and constructive. But, you'll also find those who come into every thread like this to tell you how much they dislike/hate/loathe/want to vomit on windows phone. Strangely, like moths to a flame, however, they continue to be drawn here. Which leaves me confused and makes me cry inside.
I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....
morpheuszg said:
I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....
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Click to collapse
In Android thread I am visiting there are tons of people who don't like it and it's not a problem for anyone really.
The other way round is not worse.
The scheme is like this:
WP7 lovers: "if you want to endlessly hack your phone and accept these lags, use Android"
WP7 critics: "we still miss this and that...."
What is really hard to understand for some is that some people use both platforms on regular basis and can really COMPARE them head to head. And this is the question here, COMPARISON. Times has changed, users are not devoted to one thing in their life anymore and are not treating their choices like a new religion. WP7 is still starting and appeared in a world of huge COMPETITION. If you don't know, the competition and comparisons makes things better, not the closed circle of believers. And that's why MS opened these polls where you vote for the feature you'd love to see.
Some people here are more MS than the company itself.
Hi GManLynx,
In my opinion Wyn6 and Dom both have valid points to make, Dom has voiced the fact that although WP7 is very capable as a daily driver (and it is my preferred O/S) it does seem to be limited for those of us that need specialised apps/functionality to be satisfied with our chosen platform. In the same light Wyn6 has it spot on that these forums do tend to be very geek based and arguments about granular functionality do get out of hand and turn the thread away from its original point, this thread will go that way in the end i promise...............keep an eye on it, its really quite amusing.
Anyway here is my penneth worth:
I have originally come from 6.5 where the flashing was both a delight and at the same time a chore, i then found myself being drawn to Android for the exact same reasoning and that was that i liked to play with and customise my phone to my liking. The hardware however at the time did not do it for me though and i found (as most people now realise) that with Android the hardware is the key for a great phone experience. This is now possible with all of the great droid handsets and the the apps available make the customisation side an absolute pleasure, although decent application coding is still an issue from time to time along with the possibility that the performance of any custom ROM you choose is entirely dependant on the trial and error application addition basis that 6.5 required. In my opinion this will always be the case with an open source platform.
Now with WP7 you get less chance to customise (although it is entirely possible) but the O/S is rather solid due to the fact that it is closed and that the apps that are released have been vetted so as not to afftect the functionality of the phone too much. This is also a plus point when it comes to the hardware that is required as you dont need the leading edge of available hardware to run the buttery smooth O/S. Improvements from Mango have made this even better in my opinion and have opened the door to better development opportunities and eventually better apps than are available at the moment, however i do stress the word eventually. WP7 is still very young and MS have some great things in the pipe that should make the O/S differ greatly from others......but again this will take time.
I could easily recommend droid or WP7 for you and i think you would be pleased, at the end of the day you will as Dom said have to decide what level of functionality vs customisation that you would prefer and go with that one. (this is easily done as all phone carriers now offer the 30 day cool down period, so you can evaluate both properly)
Try everything you can think of to aide your decision but most importantly have fun deciding, i know i did
Kind regards,
Creamy