Develop Bugs

Ehm, why shouldn't we switch?

Hi there, this post is basically dedicated to current users of windows mobile, who bought their phone because of the virtues an open plattform offers. People like us aren't happy with the direction ms is heading with windows phone 7 and hope that the realize their wrong doing by reimplanting things like multitasking, deep-customization, file-system access, native coding or simply copy, cut and paste.
But why should we buy a windows phone 7 device and hope they transform it to something that resembles wm6 offer time when we could just switch to another plattform?
I mean...
- booth the devices we own and the software we use are not compatible to wp7.
- Android basically got every of the above features wp7 is lagging.
- Android devices are aviable or will be released from every major windows mobile manufacture.
- A lot of software studios will produce for Android.
- Through the ndk Google offers there will probably be more windows mobile software on Android than on windows phone in a year from now.
The only thing wp7 got IMO is the ui, and as we all know from endless debates with the iphone-guys ui is a matter of taste and can be ported...

If you're not a Google or Java hater and Android does what you need... don't hesitate.
Android is good. I'm right now playing with an older Android phone, and although it is very slow (old QCOM processor) and has a small screen, I find the experience to be better than the experience I have with my HD2.
I don't have the slightest doubt anymore that Android is better than iPhone OS or WP7S.
It's smooth.
It has a great, flexible home screen (who needs tiles when you got widgets?).
It has by far the best solution for notifications.
It multitasks.
It has a Marketplace and allows you to side-load apps.
It allows you to access the file system.
It copies and pastes.
It has an NDK.
It is available right now and only getting better.
What you don't get is integration with Microsoft's services, like Windows Live and XBox Live. Of course, there's a good chance that you don't care about them.

I've never used an iPhone but I've dabbled in Android for a while. Mostly, through the Poly port for Kaiser. Here's my views on WM6.5 vs Android.
Windows Mobile GOOD
#1 WM5 sucked. Very unstable, and scrolling speed is very slow. WM6 wasn't much different. WM6.1 become stable, but speed still suffers. WM6.5 very stable, but speed suffers. WM6.5.3 is very stable, and the speed is very fast, including scrolling.
#2 True freedom. You have 3 ways to install applications, and the choice for it to be on the SD card or internal memory. Copy and Paste, and all that jazz.
#3 Customization! Like Mc Donald's says, have it your way.
#4 Huge selection of apps.
Windows Mobile BAD
#1 Lots of problems with 3D acceleration support. Mainly due to OpenGL ES drivers.
#2 Only way to upgrade OS is through custom built roms on XDA-Developers. No support from MS, HTC, and etc.
#3 Majority of applications were written in 2003, and have since been abandoned.
#4 With Phone7 coming soon, developers will completely abandon WM6.5, and move onto Phone 7.
Android GOOD
#1 Based on Linux, which means lots of community support.
#2 Already has an established amount of useful applications.
#3 Very customizable. I've seen some impressive 3D stuff.
#4 You can install applications from the SD card.
#5 Copy and paste exists.
Android BAD
#1 Applications must be installed into main memory, unless you partition your SD card.
#2 Very reliant on a internet connection to do a lot of things.
#3 No Offline GPS option for the Nav.
#4 Google might try to take away the "Google" experience from rom cookers.

#3 No Offline GPS option for the Nav.
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There's IGO8, Copilot... and some others. Or did I get you wrong?
#1 Applications must be installed into main memory, unless you partition your SD card.
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Not anymore, afaik.
#4 Huge selection of apps.
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That's even more true for Android.
But this is not WM6.5 vs. Android. WM6.5 is doomed, so the time will come when you have to switch.
WP7S is not worth waiting for, it's just an iPhone OS clone. So, in my opinion, there's no reason not to switch now, if you want to.

What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile? You know it's headed in that direction now. There's like 3 or 4 different versions of the OS and the app community isn't doing well. When WP7 gets its footing in the market (iPhone already has), it's going to be really difficult to compete with these. Perhaps Android will be relegated to low-end smartphones

C:Sharp! said:
There's IGO8, Copilot... and some others. Or did I get you wrong?
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I mean the built in Nav software, which the new one is pretty cool. I could use Ndrive, but I really like the built in Nav.
Not anymore, afaik.
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Maybe it's because I'm using a port for the HTC Kaiser. If that's the case, that can be scratched off the list.
WhyBe said:
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile? You know it's headed in that direction now. There's like 3 or 4 different versions of the OS and the app community isn't doing well. When WP7 gets its footing in the market (iPhone already has), it's going to be really difficult to compete with these. Perhaps Android will be relegated to low-end smartphones
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Won't happen for various reasons. Windows Mobile was never really taken seriously by Microsoft until now, but Android has Google behind them.
It's a lot like what happened to Internet Explorer. When Microsoft won the browser war between Netscape, they left it completely alone. Suddenly FireFox, Chrome, Safari, and Opera are kicking it's ass. Same thing happened with Windows Mobile. iPhone, and Android appeared and took Microsoft by surprise.
Also, since it's linux based, it can never truly die. The community has it's hands on it now, and they'll never let go. Don't be surprised if we see Linux distros in the Future for many phones. Something like Ubuntu or Slackware could become common to see on cooked phone roms, in a couple of years.
iPhone and Windows Phone 7 will still be popular, but does anyone truly believe that phones with so many restrictions will last? I'm sure Microsoft is betting that the Xbox feature will grab people, much like Apple is betting on that their fan base will always grab customers.

Won't happen for various reasons. Windows Mobile was never really taken seriously by Microsoft until now, but Android has Google behind them.
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Google has one success, that is it's search engine. This does not automatically mean success with other endeavors.
It's a lot like what happened to Internet Explorer. When Microsoft won the browser war between Netscape, they left it completely alone. Suddenly FireFox, Chrome, Safari, and Opera are kicking it's ass.
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Nothing is kicking IE's ass. What world are you living in?
Same thing happened with Windows Mobile. iPhone, and Android appeared and took Microsoft by surprise.
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MS deserved it.
Also, since it's linux based, it can never truly die. The community has it's hands on it now, and they'll never let go. Don't be surprised if we see Linux distros in the Future for many phones. Something like Ubuntu or Slackware could become common to see on cooked phone roms, in a couple of years.
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It may not die, per se, but it definitely will never be big. Niche product at best. There's too much confusion in open systems. How many incompatible Android OS'es are out now? Modern smartphones will win or lose based on their apps. Androids app situation sucks right now.
iPhone and Windows Phone 7 will still be popular, but does anyone truly believe that phones with so many restrictions will last? I'm sure Microsoft is betting that the Xbox feature will grab people, much like Apple is betting on that their fan base will always grab customers.
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This is smart business. Use your existing successes to build a customer base. All smart companies do this...even Google.

WhyBe said:
Google has one success, that is it's search engine. This does not automatically mean success with other endeavors.
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Gmail
Google Map
Chrome Web Broswer
Google voice
YouTube
All this is offered for free.
Nothing is kicking IE's ass. What world are you living in?
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This world.
If you added IE6+IE7+IE8, then you can say it's more popular then FireFox. You have to wonder, if people are still using IE6 then it's most likely they probably don't know about other web browsers, or don't even know what one is. You know the type, logs on twitter, facebook, and myspace and uses AIM to chat to people.
It may not die, per se, but it definitely will never be big. Niche product at best. There's too much confusion in open systems. How many incompatible Android OS'es are out now?
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No more then Windows Mobile will have. We'll soon have legacy Windows Mobile 6.5, and Phone 7. Neither are compatible.
Modern smartphones will win or lose based on their apps. Androids app situation sucks right now.
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Not sure about Windows Phone 7, but iPhone has it horrible right now.
No porn apps
No emulators
No web browsers
No flash support
Android may not have as many pull my finger apps or farting apps as iPhone, but at least we can have all of the above. iPhone and Phone7 owners will be able to have 100 different choices of how to make fart noises from their phone, while I'll be able to view flash websites. While iPhone and Phone7 will enjoy half ass made games for their phones, eventually Android will get a Playstation and N64 emulator. I consider any Genesis or SNES game to be far superior then any 3D accelerated game they can put on those phones as is.
The biggest blunder from Apple was them pulling the porn apps. Everyone knows the internet and DVDs became popular due to porn. Enforcing that rule is sure suicide, despite the horrible image of me walking into a public bathroom and finding someone wacking off to porn on their Android phone.
When Mozilla ports FireFox to Android, I'll be able to use ABP and NoScript to have a truly secure surfing experience. While IE on Phone7 fails horribly on the Acid3 test. As it is IE9 gets a 55/100 on Acid3.
Just from what I've mentioned I say there's plenty of incentive to go with an open OS. Jail break your iPhone or **** break your Phone7, but you'll be in this endless battle between Microsoft or Apple.

Dukenukemx said:
Gmail
Google Map
Chrome Web Broswer
Google voice
YouTube
All this is offered for free.
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Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
YouTube they bought for a ridiculous amount of money, and it's a cash disposer. Yeah, we all enjoy it, no doubt about it. The more we enjoy it the more money Google coughs out on it. Windows Mobile is a bigger success than this.
Google Maps? You forgot Gmail. Some 90%+ of Google's income comes from its home page. Not even Adsense, which ads a few percentage points. So no, Google hasn't had a single success in any area apart from search, even though they've been trying to diversify like crazy because they are really scared of what may happen if they lose their search engine domination. The problem is, by doing all this free stuff everywhere about the only thing they achieve is that they technically cannot "fail". Sure, you don't set revenue targets, you just burn cash, what's a failure?

I love WM 6.5.3 and right now my phone (TD2) is just perfect the way it is. And if someday I want something to change then I can just flash a new ROM, install a cab or write another tool on my own.
I hate Android because your applications are running in a Java VM and you can't access the OS kernel functions like you can with WM.
Though yesterday I just for fun run Android on a Touch Diamond. I have to admit the UI is really nice done, even though it isn't THAT MUCH different compared to the user experience you get with 6.5.3. Some window animations here and there and I love it like you can pull down the taskbar and I like the multiple homescreen thing. Though I couldn't do a lot of things with it because for most things it needed a data connection (I didn't plug in a SIM card) and USB/WiFi didn't work. Also it asked me to sign up for Google account all the time. On 6.5.3 on the other hand some things are quite better implemented, for example start menu or Sense. I also like it that you can reach all functions through your touch screen. On Android you're always forced to use the hard keys to close a window or get out of an app. After all I wonder if it's possible to hack into the taskbar or bottom bar like I do on WM but due to Java VM environment I doubt you can do that.
After all, right now there's no reason why I should switch to Android. However I don't know what the situation will be in the next 1-2 years. So in the end all I can say: On the longer run it might be the only OS able to replace 6.5.3 in the future but right now it's just too limited for my taste (in other words I can also say it doesn't give me enough features to forget about some limits). But I definitely keep an eye on it

vangrieg said:
Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
YouTube they bought for a ridiculous amount of money, and it's a cash disposer. Yeah, we all enjoy it, no doubt about it. The more we enjoy it the more money Google coughs out on it. Windows Mobile is a bigger success than this.
Google Maps? You forgot Gmail. Some 90%+ of Google's income comes from its home page. Not even Adsense, which ads a few percentage points. So no, Google hasn't had a single success in any area apart from search, even though they've been trying to diversify like crazy because they are really scared of what may happen if they lose their search engine domination. The problem is, by doing all this free stuff everywhere about the only thing they achieve is that they technically cannot "fail". Sure, you don't set revenue targets, you just burn cash, what's a failure?
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+100
Thanks Vangrieg, you beat me to it

vangrieg said:
Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
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It is success, even though the way to reach it is.... strange!?
But are Microsoft doing any better? They're just buying off companies if they need a new feature.

Google is buying new companies if they need a new feature - Android and YouTube are good examples. Microsoft isn't much better, but they have at least 2.5 sources of income - Windows, Office and Server/Tools. Now, that's a much better success because they sell that stuff. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free, having a huge pile of cash and the world's largest web ad brokerage to not get a sizable market share. Yet Google does it all the time with Buzzes, Waves and all that acid-driven stuff that even tech savvy people rarely understand. And yeah, they'll muck up more than once with Android, the patent protection issue for OEMs is just the first bell that rang.

vangrieg said:
.. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free ...
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xda-developers provide a lot of free stuff, are they losers too? I don't think so

XDA is not a business, we're here for fun. Oh, and one little nuance, XDA doesn't have 20 billion dollars to burn and can't put an ad on every freakin' web site out there.

Dukenukemx said:
Windows Mobile BAD
#1 Lots of problems with 3D acceleration support. Mainly due to OpenGL ES drivers.
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That's not a deficiency of Windows Mobile, it's a deficiency of phones manufactured by HTC. Users of the Toshiba TG01 and Acer neoTouch are very happy with their 3D support, and indeed with their hardware-accelerated video playback of virtually any codec and wrapper format.

vangrieg said:
Google is buying new companies if they need a new feature - Android and YouTube are good examples. Microsoft isn't much better, but they have at least 2.5 sources of income - Windows, Office and Server/Tools. Now, that's a much better success because they sell that stuff. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free, having a huge pile of cash and the world's largest web ad brokerage to not get a sizable market share. Yet Google does it all the time with Buzzes, Waves and all that acid-driven stuff that even tech savvy people rarely understand. And yeah, they'll muck up more than once with Android, the patent protection issue for OEMs is just the first bell that rang.
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I don't understand it as well, but seems like it's working for them. Microsoft offer more products because they are around way longer. Google are only here for roughly 10 years. Look up what MS had to offer after 10 years of existence, which was in 1985.

Actually, if you carefully listen to what Google execs say, it's not working for them. They are very nervous. I agree that one of the key problems is that they just started to diversify. They are doing too many mistakes though which are relatively easy to avoid. It's actually a funny phenomenon you can often see in companies driven by engineers because they're so into technologies and inventions and such that they just can't resist pushing their cool new things out the door. Google is in fact a lot like Microsoft, only less mature and disciplined, in this regard. A contrast to this approach is Apple where hardly anyone ever sees a beta product, and the company is incredibly focused.
Apart from product development, there's one more thing where Google doesn't have a lot of experience, and that's partnering with others. Jobs once said that he absolutely admires Gates's abilities in this regard, saying that in fact, with all the spats, fan base animosity, tensions and all, Microsoft is the only long-term partner Apple has had through all these years, and the partnership works amazingly well for both parties. He even noted that MS is the second largest developer of software for Apple products after Apple. Google has a long way to learn how to maze through all these issues and make lasting relationships. It's one thing to attract everyone with a free product and give OEMs better bargaining position against Microsoft with a mobile OS, it's a totally different thing to carry it on to market leadership with so many conflicting interests and challenges.
Sure OEMs flirt with open source OSes, IBMs and HPs of the world are investing a lot of resources into Linux development and all, but at the end of the day which OS shows up as "recommended" on their web sites? Sure HTC is all about Android, Open Handset Alliance and all that PR stuff these days, but what does its CEO say when asked why HD2 was a WM device? "We have to take care of Windows Mobile first".

WhyBe said:
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile?
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This is not going to happen.
Contrary to what some people believe, "fragmentation" does not hurt Android much and it's not what made Windows Mobile die.
Windows Mobile died, because it got zero support from Microsoft over many years. There was no money and no developers. They could easily have made it competitive to the iPhone within a year. But they didn't. It took them one and a half years to even figure out what to do and end all the internal battles, which is an eternity in the mobile space.
Google stand behind their mobile OS and you can be sure that they will fix any problems that emerge. If fragmentation becomes too much of an issue, they'll fix it. If the UI gets outdated, they'll fix it. Microsoft didn't fix anything.
And aside from that, it will take Windows Phone 7 at least another year, to even become an option. Handsets must be launched, bugs will have to be fixed and the Marketplace has to be filled. Only then will it be competitive, if ever.
That's plenty of time before you can even consider Windows Phone 7, thus switching to Android now is not wasted money.

RAMMANN said:
I don't understand it as well, but seems like it's working for them. Microsoft offer more products because they are around way longer. Google are only here for roughly 10 years. Look up what MS had to offer after 10 years of existence, which was in 1985.
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How can you compare this?
A lot of what Google has done the last 10 years is based on what MS and others made possible the first 10 years.
It's like saying that Ferrari has accomplished more then Ford because they have made better and faster cars the last 10 years then Ford did the first 10.
Ferrari might not have existed today if their wasn't someone that made engines and wheels before them.
Android is the first (open source) Linux OS that has been sold on a device. although you call it open source it's not more open the WM or iPhone.
Google is controlling the development of the OS and anyone can make applications for it.. whats the difference now between android, WM or iPhone? and witch one of them is most open source? all of them have the same. A company that develops the OS and developers making the apps.
I only see MS going less open source with WP7.
and to not having porn apps and other stuff on iPhone well jailbreak and you have it.
Now some will say you can't do anything without jailbraking an iphone. Well without Hard spl you are also kind of sucked on WM.
Android has already several updates and can't be run by all older devices.
WM also have a few updates but a wizard that is quite an old device can run WM 6.5.

Bad News for Skype Users and WP7

Did a search and couldn't find anything but it appears that when the Guys at Skype decided to discontinue Skype for Windows Mobile they also decided that they wouldn't be developing for WP7 any time soon.
David Flynn at apcmag.com said:
Citing a second-rate “user experience” compared to the iPhone and Android, Skype admits it has no immediate plans to release an app for Windows Phone 7.
Skype is working full steam ahead on an app for the iPad and the next-gen iPhone, but users of Windows Phone 7 will have to take a number and wait… and wait… and wait.
Skype’s Asia Pacific Vice-President Dan Neary says that Microsoft’s forthcoming smartphone OS is not a priority when it comes to mobile platforms.
“We try and focus not only where the need is but where the best experience is, and we feel that the best areas for us to develop are on the operating systems that we currently support – iPhone, Symbian, BlackBerry and now Android” Neary told APC during a press briefing in Sydney today. “We simply feel that those operating systems (have) a much better user experience”.
Neary said that while a Skype app for Windows Phone 7 “is on the roadmap, the question is how quickly we’re going to get to it. We feel that we are best best deployed on other operating systems (for now) and we’ll see how the space evolves.”
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article here

screw skype then, does windows mobile messenger support voice chat?

C'mon now
The main part of this article was about Skype abandoning development for the current WinMobile (6.5). They were talking about which platforms were currently supported. Why would they be talking about an app for an OS that hasn't been released yet.

lordcanti86 said:
The main part of this article was about Skype abandoning development for the current WinMobile (6.5). They were talking about which platforms were currently supported. Why would they be talking about an app for an OS that hasn't been released yet.
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err...I interpreted it differently...to me it sounds like they're not going to bother for a while.
Neary said that while a Skype app for Windows Phone 7 “is on the roadmap, the question is how quickly we’re going to get to it. We feel that we are best best deployed on other operating systems (for now) and we’ll see how the space evolves.”
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coupled with
Skype’s Asia Pacific Vice-President Dan Neary says that Microsoft’s forthcoming smartphone OS is not a priority when it comes to mobile platforms.
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..sound to me like they'll wait to see how well the platform takes off before considering beginning development.

welki1979 said:
err...I interpreted it differently...to me it sounds like they're not going to bother for a while.
coupled with
..sound to me like they'll wait to see how well the platform takes off before considering beginning development.
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Which is fine. Either wp7 will be successful and they will port it over ~3 months after release. Or wp7 will fail and it wouldn't matter either way if skype existed or not.
As an aside, anyone came across any information about kin sales?

gom99 said:
As an aside, anyone came across any information about kin sales?
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Actually yes, but its 3rd party info. I have a friend at that Carphone place... they've had a briefing on the Kin range and are expecting units to be released to them late july apparently.
I tried to get some sort of confirmation of this but as yet all I've managed to find out came from one of the shop staff who made a comment about them being late or something. (not really sure it was mumbled quietly as he walked off)
Suprisingly enough though there is nothing on the GSM Arena site despite the fact that the HTC Mondrian is listed there (a WP7 phone).

gom99 said:
Which is fine. Either wp7 will be successful and they will port it over ~3 months after release. Or wp7 will fail and it wouldn't matter either way if skype existed or not.
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And if every developer thinks like this, there will be zero apps for WP7 when it launches --> nobody will buy it, cause it has no apps --> nobody will make apps for it, cause it has no users --> ...
And by the way, Skype is not alone. So far I have not seen one developer, who thinks the tools offered are enough to make good applications (that means, stuff that does a little more than farts).
Silverlight etc. is fine and all, but now is not the right time for Microsoft to start over like this, hecause the competition is too far ahead. They should improve upon what they have, and make a slow transition to the new tools etc. when they can afford it.
But now it's too late anyway, they already dumped everything they had.

shaundalglish said:
And if every developer thinks like this, there will be zero apps for WP7 when it launches --> nobody will buy it, cause it has no apps --> nobody will make apps for it, cause it has no users --> ...
And by the way, Skype is not alone. So far I have not seen one developer, who thinks the tools offered are enough to make good applications (that means, stuff that does a little more than farts).
Silverlight etc. is fine and all, but now is not the right time for Microsoft to start over like this, hecause the competition is too far ahead. They should improve upon what they have, and make a slow transition to the new tools etc. when they can afford it.
But now it's too late anyway, they already dumped everything they had.
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The problem is that trying to maintain backwards compatibility with all those apps that were designed for stylus input and resistive touch screens was what allowed the competition to get so far ahead in the first place. The only thing they could have done was to start over because that forces developers to redevelop apps that are designed for finger input, compactive touch screens, and work better with the new OS.

shaundalglish said:
And if every developer thinks like this, there will be zero apps for WP7 when it launches --> nobody will buy it, cause it has no apps --> nobody will make apps for it, cause it has no users --> ...
And by the way, Skype is not alone. So far I have not seen one developer, who thinks the tools offered are enough to make good applications (that means, stuff that does a little more than farts).
Silverlight etc. is fine and all, but now is not the right time for Microsoft to start over like this, hecause the competition is too far ahead. They should improve upon what they have, and make a slow transition to the new tools etc. when they can afford it.
But now it's too late anyway, they already dumped everything they had.
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Maybe you should look at the videos from MWC and MIX 2010, then you'll see that there are some quite amazing apps in development. They demonstrated a Netflix, an Associated Press, a Seesmic, a Shazam and MLS app and a bunch of games. You can expect apps from EA Mobile, Fandango, Pandora, Foursquare, IMDB, Namco, PopCap Games, Photobucket and SPB Software just to name a few (that list is a bit longer than that) and because the developer tools are already available I expect many many more apps than that.

"Amazing"? lol yeah if bling bling is all you want...

shaundalglish said:
"Amazing"? lol yeah if bling bling is all you want...
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So Netflix is bling bling? Or a game like The Harvester is also just bling bling? What about Shazam?

Oh come on... Shazam is always the first app that gets ported to any new OS, because there's nothing complicated about it. Games are of course just bling bling. And 96% of the world's population couldn't care less about Netflix.
I just prefer functionality, that's all. WP7 is not going to deliver this.

shaundalglish said:
I just prefer functionality, that's all. WP7 is not going to deliver this.
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You mean to say that you believe it's not going to deliver the functionality that you deem to be important. It's still going to be a great communication, social networking, maps/navigation, multimedia and gaming platform and that's what most people want from their smartphones these days. I agree with you that WP7 is missing quite a bit of features, but I don't think those missing features are deal breakers for the average consumer.

No it's not going to deliver a lot of functionality at all, regardless of which features I personally use.

shaundalglish said:
No it's not going to deliver a lot of functionality at all, regardless of which features I personally use.
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what features are those?
Also calling something a fart app or bling bling is misleading. The majority of apps people actually consume fall into that category.
Not that I disagree with what you're trying to say but many of the advanced apps of windows mobile are just hacks to correct the lacking default user experience of wm. I do think you're being too hardlined though.
but I definitely don't like some decisions they're making with some of the current advanced features. eg: file system, data storage, side loading.

The problems as I see it is that the APIs is to poor at the moment.
No sockets support -> Some apps will have serious problems, e.g. Skype.
No way to access Bluetooth.
Very limited access to media.
This are the main things that make me doubt on this platform. I'm fine with it being locked down, just not too much.

Should we really be bothered by such trivial issue?There are better alternative apps like Fring and Nimbuzz that perfectly connects to the skype node,allowing you to still skype and be skyped.

blackrider said:
Should we really be bothered by such trivial issue?There are better alternative apps like Fring and Nimbuzz that perfectly connects to the skype node,allowing you to still skype and be skyped.
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Except Fring won't be possible in WP7 either. Skype is a proprietary P2P protocol, and implementing it would require ability to manipulate sockets. One could possibly implement an http version of a client that would connect to a central server and then the server would communicate with other Skype users, but that would be difficult, costly and ultimately useless because it would only serve as a temporary workaround until socket support comes to WP7 APIs.

vangrieg said:
Except Fring won't be possible in WP7 either. Skype is a proprietary P2P protocol, and implementing it would require ability to manipulate sockets. One could possibly implement an http version of a client that would connect to a central server and then the server would communicate with other Skype users, but that would be difficult, costly and ultimately useless because it would only serve as a temporary workaround until socket support comes to WP7 APIs.
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Socket support for WP7 will come later but is not in initial release.

havox22 said:
Socket support for WP7 will come later but is not in initial release.
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Click to collapse
Hopefully they'll hurry up, since I'm fear that I (and many others) will stand without good/any music support.
I'm a big user of Spotify, a streaming music service, which I'm sure will require Sockets to work, because it's Superior responsiveness is based on a P2P protocol. Before anyone say anything else, the phones won't share the media, but they'll download from desktop clients.
Hopefully they'll release some custom version anyway. Responsiveness won't be a problem on Mobile devices where most people have the "important" stuff in Offline cache anyways.

activate hd2 wp7 live services

here is a howto on activating your live services
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10566003#post10566003
don't post here but on the other thread .

Damn, Craigslist here I come. The HD2 is awesome.

This is amazing... Only thing that would scare me is Microsoft finding out. We've seen how strict they can be with their policies, especially taking actions towards your Live account on Xbox... So I'd hate for this to lead to some accounts becoming suspended or penalized for using "hacked consoles" in a way...
Other than that, this is great... This is why I keep my older phones... Of course this is no use to me, but it gives HD2 users new life... Let's see how many of them stop bashing WP7 now that they have it

FiyaFleye said:
This is amazing... Only thing that would scare me is Microsoft finding out. We've seen how strict they can be with their policies, especially taking actions towards your Live account on Xbox... So I'd hate for this to lead to some accounts becoming suspended or penalized for using "hacked consoles" in a way...
Other than that, this is great... This is why I keep my older phones... Of course this is no use to me, but it gives HD2 users new life... Let's see how many of them stop bashing WP7 now that they have it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can't touch you if you have Android on it. That's one reason I want to go with Android on my HD7 rather than do temporary hacks on it. But having a WP7 device, I have no desire to use it on my HD2. It just isn't that good to me now that the newness has work off.

I hope microsoft finds a way to block this quickly, just gonna lead to more hacking, then comes free paid apps, then comes a lack of good developers due to no financial plus-side, then comes the OS being just a prettier version of android....

MartyLK said:
They can't touch you if you have Android on it. That's one reason I want to go with Android on my HD7 rather than do temporary hacks on it. But having a WP7 device, I have no desire to use it on my HD2. It just isn't that good to me now that the newness has work off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was referring to the HD2 with WP7 as the hacked console... Hopefully the people who use it don't get hammered by Microsoft
z33dev33l said:
I hope microsoft finds a way to block this quickly, just gonna lead to more hacking, then comes free paid apps, then comes a lack of good developers due to no financial plus-side, then comes the OS being just a prettier version of android....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be careful, don't say this too loud, I was just attacked by some very close-minded users in another thread about it... People just don't understand, Microsoft doesn't have Apples marketing ability to overcome the blast that will come from all of these hacks. Even if you were being sarcastic, couldn't tell.
But I do think this is good for the HD2 users, at least it gives them hope for the expensive device some of them are bound to.

Nah, I'm 100 percent serious. I support third party applications no problem but getting paid apps for free is crap. Who wants to dev for a platform that can get their games for free?

z33dev33l said:
Nah, I'm 100 percent serious. I support third party applications no problem but getting paid apps for free is crap. Who wants to dev for a platform that can get their games for free?
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Click to collapse
Ask MS about Windows? All versions? Ask developers about any platform? It isn't that big of a deal.

vetvito said:
Ask MS about Windows? All versions? Ask developers about any platform? It isn't that big of a deal.
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Click to collapse
And every one of them continues to try and fix their holes. Unfortunately most OSes had crap security to work off of to begin with and its hard building on top of crap. Windows had fair security and im hoping they can fend off the people getting free apps at least for the Xbox live games or else we may never get ports of our favorite games to WP7

z33dev33l said:
And every one of them continues to try and fix their holes. Unfortunately most OSes had crap security to work off of to begin with and its hard building on top of crap. Windows had fair security and im hoping they can fend off the people getting free apps at least for the Xbox live games or else we may never get ports of our favorite games to WP7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it has anything to do with getting paid apps free. Android has some of the best games going that people are ripping off right and left and devs continue to develop for it.

this has nothing to do with hacking apps , the code they use will be connected to the live account they use.
the os isn't hacked , only ms his market place on the pc hacked to download app's to the pc (they can fix it 10 sec, so don't ask me way they didn't fixed it)
you can see the hd2 got a legal update (not cracked what so ever ) from a illegal place

Could someone point me to a Windows 7 Rom for Hd2
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

demon187 said:
Could someone point me to a Windows 7 Rom for Hd2
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=912416

Wp7 hd2 illegal
vetvito said:
Damn, Craigslist here I come. The HD2 is awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really amazing, but... ILLEGAL

Is Google blocking YouTube and Google Maps for WP7

I was wondering why we could not have a decent official YouTube application (there are some alternatives, LazyTube, SuperTube or RealTube).
Samely Google Maps is still not proposed for WP7, which can be a problem for customers outside UK/US who are stuck with the Bing Maps.
It seems that there is an answer here, and the problem may possibly come from Google according to Brad Smith, Senior Vice President & General Counsel at Microsoft:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsof...voice-to-concerns-about-search-in-europe.aspx
Microsoft is filing a formal complaint with the European Commission as part of the Commission’s ongoing investigation into whether Google has violated European competition law.
According to Brad Smith, Senior Vice President & General Counsel at Microsoft, [...] in 2010 and again more recently, Google blocked Microsoft’s new Windows Phones from operating properly with YouTube. Google has enabled its own Android phones to access YouTube so that users can search for video categories, find favorites, see ratings, and so forth in the rich user interfaces offered by those phones. It’s done the same thing for the iPhones offered by Apple, which doesn’t offer a competing search service.
Unfortunately, Google has refused to allow Microsoft’s new Windows Phones to access this YouTube metadata in the same way that Android phones and iPhones do. As a result, Microsoft’s YouTube “app” on Windows Phones is basically just a browser displaying YouTube’s mobile Web site, without the rich functionality offered on competing phones
http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-calls-out-google-poor-youtube-windows-phone

arturobandini said:
I was wondering why we could not have a decent official YouTube application (there are some alternatives, LazyTube, SuperTube or RealTube).
Samely Google Maps is still not proposed for WP7, which can be a problem for customers outside UK/US who are stuck with the Bing Maps.
It seems that there is an answer here:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsof...voice-to-concerns-about-search-in-europe.aspx
Microsoft is filing a formal complaint with the European Commission as part of the Commission’s ongoing investigation into whether Google has violated European competition law
http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-calls-out-google-poor-youtube-windows-phone
I can't believe this is true. It is totally against basic competition rules and only the customers pay the consequences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if your browser can access the serviced, you're not blocked. next case.

ohgood said:
if your browser can access the serviced, you're not blocked. next case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have heard of User-Agent?

I think google has more and greater things to prioritize rather than making and supporting apps for wp7 who has a small userbase. Haha, idk...

Relevant paragraph
Unfortunately, Google has refused to allow Microsoft’s new Windows Phones to access this YouTube metadata in the same way that Android phones and iPhones do. As a result, Microsoft’s YouTube “app” on Windows Phones is basically just a browser displaying YouTube’s mobile Web site, without the rich functionality offered on competing phones. Microsoft is ready to release a high quality YouTube app for Windows Phone. We just need permission to access YouTube in the way that other phones already do, permission Google has refused to provide.

peacekeeper05 said:
I think google has more and greater things to prioritize rather than making and supporting apps for wp7 who has a small userbase. Haha, idk...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true of Google Maps but as for Youtube all they have to do is authorise it.

htc youtube works just fine
and supertube is amazingly flawless for downloading 720p videos for nothing. Heck I got quite a few anime and tv shows on my phone
now if I can find dr. who on there...

What's wrong with HTC branded YouTube app? The only thing I haven't figured out is how to post videos to FB with it. Other than that I think its great.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

soopablake said:
What's wrong with HTC branded YouTube app? The only thing I haven't figured out is how to post videos to FB with it. Other than that I think its great.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mainly you can't click a youtube link and have it open with that app.

soopablake said:
What's wrong with HTC branded YouTube app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
erm... it's only on HTC phones?
Edit: No need to bring up hacking or sideloading, natively it's just on HTC phones.

MS doesnt want gmaps since their bing-maps is "the solution"
youtube app exist for htc(official or semi-official, not sure) but i suspect that google has anything to do with "lack of support"...

They are blocking MS, not third parties.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

pasp1001 said:
MS doesnt want gmaps since their bing-maps is "the solution" (bingmaps doesnt work for many euro countries bu still MS insists on them-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My God... To me Bing Maps is one of the major weak point of WP7, which indeed sometimes makes me regret I did not chose Android.
But it's only MS' fault if Bing Maps is such a crappy app outside UK and the US. I don't even know if MS really realize how pathetic the service can be in my country. It's definitely a shame.

arturobandini said:
My God... To me Bing Maps is one of the major weak point of WP7, which indeed sometimes makes me regret I did not chose Android.
But it's only MS' fault if Bing Maps is such a crappy app outside UK and the US. I don't even know if MS really realize how pathetic the service can be in my country. It's definitely a shame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i know and i agree 100%- bing maps is useless piece of zhit for many(me included)
i was just being sarcastic for the google-haters, cause frankly the truth need to be told
MS- DOESNT WANT GMAPS

Guys, remember Bing maps will improve once they integrate Nokia's Ovi maps as that's part of their deal. But like most things WP7 I don't think it will come until at least a year from now.

soopablake said:
What's wrong with HTC branded YouTube app? The only thing I haven't figured out is how to post videos to FB with it. Other than that I think its great.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My jaw continues to drop...
First of all, it's only for HTC phones. Dell, Samsung, and LG devices don't have that app.
Secondly, there is still a functionality gap between and Google [Android] YouTube Apps. Not sure what Microsoft has in store, but I can't imagine it would be any worse than what HTC put out.
Perhaps they should use this time to deliver to us a decent WLM Client?
The issue Microsoft are having with Google are probably similar to the issues they had with Twitter that stopped them from delivering Twitter in People Hub to us on release (yet Samsung was interestingly able to integrate it into Samsung Social Hub... these things continue to baffle me).
There is also word going around that Google is intentionally being slow authorizing Android phones that are being released with Microsoft Bing as the default search... BTW...

ohgood said:
if your browser can access the serviced, you're not blocked. next case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless the jurisdiction's competition law considers quality of access as well as access. Which the EU and USA both do.
If I stop you from listing your goods on an online marketplace in categories because you are my competitor, but do let you list them untagged, will I be liable? Certainly.

Bad analogy.
You should perhaps read the complete article/letter in the second link of the OP.
It's no surprise that Google is quite anti-competitive, and for those complaining about Bing Maps, understand that Bing is funded by Ad Revenue for the most part (from the Search Engine) and in Europe Google has 95% of the Search Market. Since Google is so dominant in Europe, it means Bing Maps in Europe will not be as good as in the US/UK because the funding from Europe is terribad compared to the US - thanks to Google.
I think it's about time the Government does what it should have done a long time ago and classify Google as a Monopoly in the Search Market...
If Microsoft was doing this, regulators would be calling for their heads.

N8ter said:
My jaw continues to drop...
First of all, it's only for HTC phones. Dell, Samsung, and LG devices don't have that app. er...yes we do...youtube 2.0 xap has been on xda for a while
Secondly, there is still a functionality gap between and Google [Android] YouTube Apps. Not sure what Microsoft has in store, but I can't imagine it would be any worse than what HTC put out. Can we really say what microsoft has in store considering google blocked microsoft access
Perhaps they should use this time to deliver to us a decent WLM Client?for the last time, miyowa is the official msn client. Developers of li'messenger is coming back in Q2 with a new client, but for now, miyowa is here to stay
The issue Microsoft are having with Google are probably similar to the issues they had with Twitter that stopped them from delivering Twitter in People Hub to us on release (yet Samsung was interestingly able to integrate it into Samsung Social Hub... these things continue to baffle me). again similar to htc, samsung is not microsoft
There is also word going around that Google is intentionally being slow authorizing Android phones that are being released with Microsoft Bing as the default search... BTW...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rumor doesn't really surprise me. Hi google, you're the big brother Microsoft couldn't be

There is definitely something that Google is preventing Microsoft from doing correctly. If you take a look at any Microsoft app, it is at least pretty and it works. The Youtube app is just as ugly as it can be. There is no obvious explanation to this other that MS vs Google.
As for a decent WLM app, I am almost sure they already have it, its just a matter of getting multitasking out there first. No multitasking, no chat is worthy.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Xbox Live App released for iOS

Found it interesting that Microsoft just released an Xbox Live app for iOS users that does almost the exact same thing that our Xbox hub does. Is it me or did Microsoft just take away one of the coolest reasons to own a WP7?
Yes I know that you can't earn Xbox achievements on the iOS app, but one of the main things I loved about having the hub on my phone was to see who was online to play, something that made all my Iphone friends jealous.
Would love to hear feedback!
http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-releases-xbox-live-app-for-ios-users/

Yes i feel the same way, I think Microsoft lost points on this one but i guess it was bound to happen. +1 for iOS

So what are the remaining reasons to buy a WP7? Office, and thats rumoured to be coming to ios. So then with a deficit in apps, mindshare, marketshare, what would be the reason to buy a WP7 device?
What a stupid, stupid, move and when WP7 dies, no one at MS should cry. (Probably all still be on their iphones, anyway).

The integration between Windows Phone and Xbox Live isn't good enough be that much of a selling point at the moment. The parts that are, games that add achievements and what not, aren't available on iOS.
You guys are complaining about something that offers the functionality that the xbox live website offers, who cares? You that mad that somebody can edit an Avatar? Read their Xbox Live Messages?
Let's complain when iOS gamers are playing games with people on Xbox Live.

PG2G said:
Let's complain when iOS gamers are playing games with people on Xbox Live.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft being a software company I wouldn't be surprised to see them do that. That's where the customers are.
I think it's damaging to Windows Phone perception wise, iOS has already the best games and now they have an Xbox Live app. Even if the games are not Live enabled, that's not good for perception.

Peew971 said:
Microsoft being a software company I wouldn't be surprised to see them do that. That's where the customers are.
I think it's damaging to Windows Phone perception wise, iOS has already the best games and now they have an Xbox Live app. Even if the games are not Live enabled, that's not good for perception.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google has apps on iOS, doesn't seem to have hurt them too much.
Hell, I wouldn't mind Zune support on iOS too, haha.

Yeah Microsoft has been stupid with Zune, if they had made it multiplatform from the go they would own the streaming space now. Not sure Spotify would exist today. Typically Microsoft really.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/7/2...ve-app-for-ios-puts-a-little-windows-phone-on
The Verge has an interesting interpretation of this app... expose iPhone users to metro UI.

arkavat said:
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/7/2...ve-app-for-ios-puts-a-little-windows-phone-on
The Verge has an interesting interpretation of this app... expose iPhone users to metro UI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it wont, just gives them one more reason to stick with their platform. Xbox Live may not have been a reason to switch to WP7, but being on ios definitely makes it easier for those users to stay on their platform.

Plus Xbox Live users are already exposed to metro through their console so that argument doesn't hold up.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Wp7 games already suck this gives iOS 1up on us while their fames are nice along with their ability to see their Xbox live account. Who cares if they can't achieve points on such games
Sent from my Venue Pro using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

They get their points in Game Center. This is just icing on the cake for them. I said the same thing about them releasing Windows Live Messenger and OneNote mobile on iOS.
I'm due for a new phone soon. This will be interesting.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

I'm due a new phone since August. Been waiting for a decent Mango phone which never came. Chances are I'll keep my Omnia 7 on the side, upgrade to a Galaxy Nexus and buy an iPad. I'll give it until CES then decide but it seems to me Microsoft is treating iOS better than WP at the moment.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Thread is silly. This has been possible with apps on IOS and Android for years. Microsoft just made a official version for IOS.
boohoo they're trying to get more users. You have to understand MS is a Software company first.

vetvito said:
Thread is silly. This has been possible with apps on IOS and Android for years. Microsoft just made a official version for IOS.
boohoo they're trying to get more users. You have to understand MS is a Software company first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what would have happened if Blackberry made an official BBM app for Apple years ago? Or if Apple had released Siri for Android too? The only difference is WP7 is too new to lose exclusive features, minor or major. 3rd party apps don't count.

uh, this has never been a exclusive feature. As stated apps have been available for years, get over it. Office, Zune are exclusive.
Software company wants more people to use it's software. Wow, who would've known.

Who didn't see this coming. Ignorance is bliss, I see.
Microsoft released WLM for iOS and made WP7 users wait a year for it while demanding developers like IM+ rip out the WLM functionality months before many users even got Mango.
They also released OneNote, which is literally the only part of Office Mobile that is better than iWorks and third party Android Office Alternatives like DTG, ThinkFree, and QuickOffice.
Then the Bing app with Vision and all that other stuff, and even updates it for other platforms when we have to wait for complete firmware updates to go from MS to OEM to Carrier to us for an update on that stuff.
Still waiting on PhotoSynth for WP7... It's on iOS, though...
Really... Why the suprised looks?
Microsoft is internally fragmented. The different devisions don't work together as well as those in Google and Apple. Google would never release a Maps app on par with the Android version for another platform, but Microsoft has no issues releasing OneNote Mobile, WLM, PhotoSynth, and ridiculously good Bing apps for other platforms. They have pretty much always done this.
The Windows Phone Team does not control what the XBox, Windows Live, and Office Teams do; and the management at Microsoft does not force them to give priority support to their own platforms, either, from the looks of it (looking back years even to Windows Mobile days).

www.xbox.com does the same thing, who cares.

And you can control your xbox with the controller. Who cares about that app?
Right?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

Google releases great apps for non-Android devices and they're praised for supporting other companies and are making an attempt to take over the world through superior support and innovation.
Microsoft does it and they're the worst company in the world abandoning their operating system and are heavily fragmented.
Our app still does much more than the iOS app. Would a thread in this tone be created in the Android section if Google released a full-featured Google+ app for Windows Phone? Probably not.