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Hello Everyone
i did not know that you do not post warez in this forum....so please excuse me....anyway warez are all over the net....keep the good working with M$ windows only.....sorry again
cheers
Astra I left your post up for over a day with a warning that if you don't follow rules and amend the post you will be banned. You didn't, and so I banned you.
It makes banning a mockery now that you have rejoined, but by virtue of your baptism by fire I hope that you will be a good boy now. Look, we're all grown ups, we all know how to get warez. But it's not in your interest or ours to distribute warez in a very public manner. Microsoft and other copyright holders can and are exercising their legitimate control of materials illegally distributed through this site.
Sorry for being a hard ass.
V
hey vijay ... i just wanted to know one stuff... how legal is it to copy win mobile from one device and then alter it to our desires and then uploading it for all.... trust me i didnt want to be harsh.... just wantd to know that if posting a warez link is prohibited i am sure that microsoft does not approve of this too.... for that matter we are all eagerly awaiting for crossbow for our device but i am sure microsoft does not approve that..... so why are you so soft hearted for these crimes....
no offence even i am using helmi's 3.5 and i know that its an excellent rom but i am sure that its not a legal one..... so what do you say about it.. if you are so against piracy then you should be againt it in any form... isnt it
just a thought
do comment
kingdomraj said:
hey vijay ... i just wanted to know one stuff... how legal is it to copy win mobile from one device and then alter it to our desires and then uploading it for all.... trust me i didnt want to be harsh.... just wantd to know that if posting a warez link is prohibited i am sure that microsoft does not approve of this too.... for that matter we are all eagerly awaiting for crossbow for our device but i am sure microsoft does not approve that..... so why are you so soft hearted for these crimes....
no offence even i am using helmi's 3.5 and i know that its an excellent rom but i am sure that its not a legal one..... so what do you say about it.. if you are so against piracy then you should be againt it in any form... isnt it
just a thought
do comment
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Well, for example, don't post warez discussion forum links (see your today's post at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=286918 )
Raj, you're asking the wrong guy. You can see that I don't say this is MY policy of warez. You can see specifically that I'm realistic in that we all know how to get warez... read my other posts on the subject. I'm not in a position to condone warez, but I've expressly stated (see the TomTom thread) that I will personally guide those that want warez, but will not allow it on the board.
I am a coder in my spare time, and make no money from it, but there are many enthusiastic coders who's software you are no doubt using, who would lose out if we pirate their warez. Have a heart or spare a thought. I'm not going to preach - each man controls his own destiny.
But this is a public forum, and a useful resource to us all. If you start talking about killing all Jews or how incest is best kept in the family, then I'd have the same attitude: do what you like in your house, but this is a public resource, and a helpful one, that deserves being protected by all those that benefit from it.
Regarding Roms:
This is still an entirely open question. The way I look at this is that HTC/our operator provides us with a rom on our device. They grant us a license to use the Rom, like most EULAs. And theoretically their intellectual property is vested and static within the rom itself.
However, the rom update files are distributed freely on the web. Our work in dissecting roms and make a “best of compilation” is hopefully fair use, we are generally only re-using intellectual property that is effectively licensed to us by our operator. So our best of roms merely maximise use of those materials and from there our use of the phones. I know I wouldn’t be using my phones if they weren’t maxed out with my own mods, and likewise, I can be sure that my next phone will be Windows Mobile, and almost certainly HTC, as a result of this community. I hope that HTC and Microsoft acknowledge that themselves – communities build device support and vice versa. Look at Modaco.
The problems arise with intellectual property not by those copyright holders. Palm asked us to remove Palm Messaging, and rightly so, they had every right to do so. As did Picsel with the Picsel Browser. We will comply with EVERY request to remove copyrighted material. If you can’t find anyone to do so, write to me. For legal reasons precise compliance with such a request will depend on the jurisdiction in which the copyright holder resides and the location of the XDA Devs server/host.
But I hope I speak for all the mods in saying that we are over zealous in our efforts to keep this board running, and we’d do that without warez and even questionable roms if required. But it has to be said, the board has been up for a while, and we hope that we have helped other users, not screwed the copyright holders.
Regarding Crossbow – anyone distributing it should be aware of the risk they put themselves and their source in. The mods have discussed this, and as with all intellectual challenge, will embrace its support and extend its execution. But we don’t want to get involved in hosting it right now. Rapidshare links are questionable enough, but down to the user himself.
Raj, we don't profess to be perfect. But we hope the forum provides a useful resource. I advise all users to keep it alive, and be sensible.
V
OK guys....let's close this disscusion and keep going in our good work.....thankx everybody.....sorry again
vijay555 said:
Astra I left your post up for over a day with a warning that if you don't follow rules and amend the post you will be banned. You didn't, and so I banned you.
It makes banning a mockery now that you have rejoined, but by virtue of your baptism by fire I hope that you will be a good boy now. Look, we're all grown ups, we all know how to get warez. But it's not in your interest or ours to distribute warez in a very public manner. Microsoft and other copyright holders can and are exercising their legitimate control of materials illegally distributed through this site.
Sorry for being a hard ass.
V
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vijay555 i just come here every few days when i want to follow up the good work done here for the firmwares....but i spend most of the time at the other sites that provide us with the latest warez....thnkx
Astra, seriously, no problem. It's just that you came on the board as a noob with a couple of posts asking for warez... like I said, I left a warning but we have to be fairly strict. It'll be very easy for the board to go downhill very quickly... but thanks for being gracious. No hard feelings.
V
I have to agree with vijay555 to keep the warez out of this forum.
This forum is very informative; it helps many to experience information which is in fact impossible to get anywhere else. Only because of this forum I have receive support for my Devices which I couldn’t get anywhere else.
A old Chinese saying: you don’t shxt in your leaving room!
So better to keep the leaving room clean and use the bath-room for those others :0)
vijay555 said:
Raj, you're asking the wrong guy. You can see that I don't say this is MY policy of warez. You can see specifically that I'm realistic in that we all know how to get warez... read my other posts on the subject. I'm not in a position to condone warez, but I've expressly stated (see the TomTom thread) that I will personally guide those that want warez, but will not allow it on the board.
I am a coder in my spare time, and make no money from it, but there are many enthusiastic coders who's software you are no doubt using, who would lose out if we pirate their warez. Have a heart or spare a thought. I'm not going to preach - each man controls his own destiny.
But this is a public forum, and a useful resource to us all. If you start talking about killing all Jews or how incest is best kept in the family, then I'd have the same attitude: do what you like in your house, but this is a public resource, and a helpful one, that deserves being protected by all those that benefit from it.
Regarding Roms:
This is still an entirely open question. The way I look at this is that HTC/our operator provides us with a rom on our device. They grant us a license to use the Rom, like most EULAs. And theoretically their intellectual property is vested and static within the rom itself.
However, the rom update files are distributed freely on the web. Our work in dissecting roms and make a “best of compilation” is hopefully fair use, we are generally only re-using intellectual property that is effectively licensed to us by our operator. So our best of roms merely maximise use of those materials and from there our use of the phones. I know I wouldn’t be using my phones if they weren’t maxed out with my own mods, and likewise, I can be sure that my next phone will be Windows Mobile, and almost certainly HTC, as a result of this community. I hope that HTC and Microsoft acknowledge that themselves – communities build device support and vice versa. Look at Modaco.
The problems arise with intellectual property not by those copyright holders. Palm asked us to remove Palm Messaging, and rightly so, they had every right to do so. As did Picsel with the Picsel Browser. We will comply with EVERY request to remove copyrighted material. If you can’t find anyone to do so, write to me. For legal reasons precise compliance with such a request will depend on the jurisdiction in which the copyright holder resides and the location of the XDA Devs server/host.
But I hope I speak for all the mods in saying that we are over zealous in our efforts to keep this board running, and we’d do that without warez and even questionable roms if required. But it has to be said, the board has been up for a while, and we hope that we have helped other users, not screwed the copyright holders.
Regarding Crossbow – anyone distributing it should be aware of the risk they put themselves and their source in. The mods have discussed this, and as with all intellectual challenge, will embrace its support and extend its execution. But we don’t want to get involved in hosting it right now. Rapidshare links are questionable enough, but down to the user himself.
Raj, we don't profess to be perfect. But we hope the forum provides a useful resource. I advise all users to keep it alive, and be sensible.
V
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thanks a lot... it was all very informative and trust me i did not think that you will take all the pain to explain me these things in such an elaborate manner....it was very considerate of you
realy i mean it...
thanx man
BTW, while cooked ROM's are indeed a "not-entirely-white" area, if you consider piracy as "something that does financial damage to the developer", then, cooked ROM's shouldn't be considered in so a strict way as traditional warez. (Actually, cooked, advanced ROMs even raise the value of a given Pocket PC model, generating more sales.)
Menneisyys said:
BTW, while cooked ROM's are indeed a "not-entirely-white" area, if you consider piracy as "something that does financial damage to the developer", then, cooked ROM's shouldn't be considered in so a strict way as traditional warez. (Actually, cooked, advanced ROMs even raise the value of a given Pocket PC model, generating more sales.)
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Click to collapse
yeah i do agree to it now
Well, while browsing the forum I've observed such a wrong attitude: moderators are closing topics where people makes comparison between different things, may it be ROMS, software, etc.
Examples:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=428372
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=449641
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=454243
Sorry, but the moderation team SHOULD know the following:
- there are people that have tested many ROMS/applications
- there are people who don't have time to test n applications/ROMS
So what's wrong if ONE that had tested multiple ROMs share his opinions with the rest? What's wrong in telling us about the most stable ROM? I've also read something like "Test all the ROMS and see what's the best for you".. So, for eg, I have to flash all the ROMS to find out which one is the most stable .. instead reading other user suggestion that had already done that.. So WRONG and redundant.
Of course you can read other users opinions about a ROM in its dedicated thread , but a summary thread it's most valuable for many of us.
So, please, do not restrict this kind of topics!
There are some good posts (maybe even by me ) on why these threads are a bad idea, but I cannot find one of them for the life in me. So off the top of my head...
These threads are very subjective, each person has there own opinion on what a good ROM is and (maybe more inflamtary) who their favorite chef is.
There have been ROM review threads in the past, that's not a problem - PURESKILLZ flashed reviewed every kaiser ROM for a while (with screen shots).
And most moderators will let a "Can you recommend me a good arabic* ROM" thread, if correctly placed.
*Replace with some other niche requirement.
The main problem is ROM's come and go, I remember when Dutty's Hybrid Kaiser ROM's were the Dogs Bollocks, now I prefer something newer. Even what I prefer changes daily, last week it was minimal plain today screens, this week I felt like a Full Manila 2D ROM. How can this sort of thing be maintained? A collection of conflicting opinions of many users. How would chefs feel if people started to rate them against on anyother, i.e. is Noonski better than Dutty? Also, the threads are often started by noob's and never maintained so will soon become redundant.
The easiest way to see the latest ROM's is to check the 1st page or 2 of the "[device name] ROM development / Upgrading" forum.
Also, this is a Development site, Kyphur say's it best here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Thanks
Dave
If these kinds of posts would have proven to help they'd probably would be allowed.
They can serve the developers.
The prove of this is that some Comparison threads are still alive and kicking, because they compare in a professional manner
But in most cases they turn into nasty Food Fights that manage to get the developers of the apps being compared to give up because of the rudeness of the posts.
So as helping and creating an environment for Developers has a higher priority then having people express their opinions we'd rather not take the risk.
PS: Dutty is better then me.
But we both make different PERSONAL decisions on what we do. See the keyword "Personal" even thought everyone knows better, it's very easy to take it personal even when it ain't. Some handle it better then others, but why make life harder?
To repeat and possibly elaborate on what my esteemed colleagues have already stated:
A good Comparison Thread for Roms, Applications etc can always be useful. The problem is that "Which is the best" is a very subjective thing and so often the posters get into verbal sparring in defense of their fav at the moment.
There have been examples of good comparison threads where a complete analysis of each Rom/Application was given but the the "Fanbois" have come in and polluted the thread to the point that it just had to be trashed.
Read the post in my signature (and many others I've noticed) about "What is XDA-Devs?", enjoy the journey by trying them yourself....
I can see your point guys.. and you are right.. But you must agree that even if the user isn't developing something for WM/mobiles that doesn't mean that he's stupid or smth. That's true that many people ask really dumb questions for such site..
What motivates a developer? Feedback and money. Yes, feedback. Feedback coming from regular users. Why are developers releasing ROMS? Because they want to help others (esp. regular users, non-dev segment). Why some developers are releasing more versions frequently? Yes, because of feedback. Because they know that they don't work in vain. Even negative feedback is extremely good. It makes you to do the work better, to work more on it. Competition (vs things) is also good.
If this site was meant only for developing proposes then almost all the information was meant for: learning, sharing, evolving. And I mean only in "development style".
Also, here we can see many forums dedicated to Applications, even themes. Actually there are MORE forums for this instead for Development. See my topic "Development and Hacking" should be splitted. This should be addressed ASAP. If xda-developers is more organized in this area maybe more valuable developing information will be found.
You are all right but you miss one point, your work without the regular people is in vain. Let's say you talk here only about developing , but if you release an application you feel that you want to share it with the rest.. but if there are only developers , who can and know to program the application, then there's no joy..
If there is no question, there's no answer.
So I must say you should be more flexible with comparison threads and if someone post in "noob style" just warn/suspend him. Even if we are subjective, many of us have same tastes. Plus the user can point/explain why he choose that ROM/app. But you're right ,many people just don't elaborate it's choice, some say only "x is the best" without anything more
Sorry if I was not too coherent, I don't feel so good
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:
"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset Maugham
Those who present their creations to the vicessitudes of public reception ought to expect their creations to be scrutinized and judged by those receiving it. Any individual that considers a product (i.e., something that has been produced) is charged with the duty of determining its efficacy based on face value. In the context of this community, this action is done by evaluating the presentation of the application or ROM via screen shots, description, cost (monetary or otherwise), perhaps even the source, etcetera. The point here is that before anyone even downloads a product, it is evaluated. Once received: form, function, aesthetics, etcetera lend themselves to further scrutiny, evaluation, and judgment.
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments. Value-judgments are the driving force behind progression and innovation. This forum, for example, wouldn't even exist were it not for the fact that one day, an individual decided that the efficacy of XDA development would be improved by abrogating the the sparsely populated niche blogs and decentralized developers and replacing them with a centralized and synergistic community of experts. More to the point, the progressions and innovations, even within this community, occur because the status quo has been evaluated and judged.
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
dumpydooby said:
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:
"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset Maugham.....
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments .....
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
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My 2 cts:
Nicely put, but (in my opinion) you still miss some points:
-value judgments are allowed, everybody is free to post their opinion about a certain ROM in the appropiate thread (obiding the rules of decency ofcourse).
So some of your quotes aren't applicable.
-There is no "best ROM", just as clearly there is no best "politial party", not a "best religion" or the "best way to raise a kid", that is because everybody have different needs, different values, and different ways of observation.
What is good for one, is bad or even harmfull for another, or just an insult. Please keep that in mind.
And because of this phenomena general threads like best ROM don't add value but only clutter, it's impossible to get general consensis.
Objective threads on the other hand are constructive.
You can take a variable like speed, indexing etc and measure that, and everybody knows that eg. a higher value for speed is better.
I think we tend to keep the forum as it is: a developers forum, so we naturally tend to judge numbers, and we attach higher values upon numbers that on personal feelings.
Disclaimer:
Please note that this post is a reflection of my own opinion and should not be seen as the general opinion of the moderator team or XDA-developers!
dumpydooby said:
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset MaughamThose who present their creations to the vicessitudes of public reception ought to expect their creations to be scrutinized and judged by those receiving it. Any individual that considers a product (i.e., something that has been produced) is charged with the duty of determining its efficacy based on face value. In the context of this community, this action is done by evaluating the presentation of the application or ROM via screen shots, description, cost (monetary or otherwise), perhaps even the source, etcetera. The point here is that before anyone even downloads a product, it is evaluated. Once received: form, function, aesthetics, etcetera lend themselves to further scrutiny, evaluation, and judgment.
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments. Value-judgments are the driving force behind progression and innovation. This forum, for example, wouldn't even exist were it not for the fact that one day, an individual decided that the efficacy of XDA development would be improved by abrogating the the sparsely populated niche blogs and decentralized developers and replacing them with a centralized and synergistic community of experts. More to the point, the progressions and innovations, even within this community, occur because the status quo has been evaluated and judged.
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
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I think you've really completely missed the point. The logic behind closing these threads is very simple, and has been already stated many times. It was determined long ago that these type of threads do more harm than good, and as such was made a rule here at XDA long before most of the people complaining about this issue even joined the site. Since it's a rule, the moderators enforce it.
It's nice to think that the "best app/rom" threads could somehow be a good place where healthy discussion could flourish, and users could provide constructive praise & criticism, but anyone who does any quantity of reading knows that the majority of people interested in "best rom/app" threads don't have any basis for constructive criticism, as they probably haven't flashed enough roms to know the difference between them.
As for you example of Manila2D/Manila3D, we all know that came to replace HTC Home for a very simple reason, which is that people want what's new, even if it isn't better. In that particular example i happen to prefer the manila interfact to HTC Home, but as a general rule it still remains true. That's why users who can't even read an error message to figure out they need to install netcf are always installing beta software, and then filling threads with questions. Not that i'm against them trying new software, but if you're gonna start something that's over your head, you oughta get prepared to start learning.
Anyway, I suppose the point to all of this is mostly the same as what Mike said, which is that obviously we can see the conceptual value to having these threads where users could post the things they do/don't like about roms/apps, but like many things in live it just doesn't work out in the way it should. Since users are allowed to post their thoughts and their criticisms about a rom in the thread for that rom, where the chef will definiitely read it, I don't feel like we're impeding anyone's ability to voice their opinions. All we require is that they are respectful when they share it.
I will admit to being one of the mods who may be, in your opinion, quick to squelch these best of threads.
When asked why I was closing so many "Which is the Best ROM" threads in the Kaiser section, I replied the following.
Thank you for your opinion. The Guidelines for the Kaiser Section were not invented by me solely and for no reason.
The reasons most Kaiser Mods discourage this type of thread, is these threads not only can create hard feelings between chefs but has been known to lead to all out flame wars
If you want to know peoples personal opinions on ROM, you are more than welcome to ask these questions in the ROM thread.
Also, the Kaiser forum is very active and placing peoples opinions of ROMs in the ROM Thread, where the chef can see and respond to such opinions, is more helpful to the community at large.
This guideline was not created to stop personal opinions and speech. But to lead to a better organized Forum Section.
Thanks,
Jimmy McGee
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Those are still my sentiments. I once asked Scotchua about his favorite ROM. I tried it, and honestly I didn't like it. But that's ok, Scotchua and I have different priorities. As most people do.
There was once a thread, again in the Kaiser Section, (Can you tell what phone I use?) asking what the best IM app was. That thread is still open today. The Discussion was very civil and spoke of the equatable statistics of each IM app. Like which ones used proxies, which ones didn't, what once were free, and which ones cost. Since these programs were focused on the same end goal, To Send IMs via MSN, AIM or Yahoo!, it was easy to compare.
But this is not the case with ROMs, NATF started off making "Lean" ROMs for the Kaiser, while Leo was making "Fully Loaded" ROMs. These are two different categories that cannot be compared as easily.
Once again thank you for all your input, just remember, you can win all the battles.
woohoo...mike boy...you have hit 10 stars....
btw...yep...completely off-post but i hav a feelin this thread is gonna be trashed soon
A Little Toungue in Cheek
Very... Very well done. If anyone ever questions the intelligence and thoughtfulness of the Mods , they should be directed here. Well thought out answers (I personally am against this type of thread) and nicely conveyed opinions.
When and if another of these threads are closed, I think that this link should be attached, so that the OPs will know that thought was put into the closure and it was not done randomly.
Okay, now to those that think a thread like this could be constructive, I propose a test thread. But let us substitute some thing else for " roms " so as not to alienate any chefs EH............... lets say countries. Here is the new test thread
I am new here and I am trying to determine , " What is the best overall country in the world? " Could someone direct me please?
Okay, I will kick it off.......America, I have found to be the best, land of the free and all that.
agree with Mods
I completely agree with our Mods here, to allow these threads to exist would basically cause competition between the chefs, and that is something that should never happen. In the short time that I have been a member of this site I have learned ALOT by doing my own search, homework, and asking questions. I have made alot of friends on here and have very much grown to, dare I say "love" this site. I would hate to see this site turn into a competition site between chefs. If that happened there would probably be a reality tv series started AbC, CBS, etc... would be trying to buy rights to air "KAISERS HELL KITCHEN" lol, but seriously if there is a competition between chefs we would be loosing out due to the chefs not wanting to share their knowledge, because they are trying to out due each other. they would all be trying to keep their "trade secrets" out of "enemy" hands i guess you could say.
there would be no winner, just alot of us loosing out just to make things easier for newbs instead of them working, reading, and learning as we all have. i've heard some newbs say that they want this because they don't have time like the "regular" members on here do, and one post really kinda brought to lite the lack of motivation to learn: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3115995&postcount=12 a way they can tell now what roms are hot is check out how many veiws a thread has had, people flock to the popular threads don't they? it also goes back to personal opinion and experience, ex: if two people flash the same rom and one uses the wrong hardspl, radio, and doesn't hard reset and the other does all right who's kaiser will work properly, next you have that newb that didn't use the right spl, radio, etc.. telling everyone that the ex. rom is buggy when in all reality it is not.
All depends on what you want
You're all close, but as a very new post-er to this board here's my thoughts (objectively speaking, the mere existence of a bulletin board/forum is a solicitation for comment, so I know everyone wants to hear what I've got to say!)...
DSF - you're on the right track, and I agree with your idea in general, but not specifically as to "best".
DaveShaw - I agree that there is no "best" ROM. However, you've got the right idea with your "niche", as you call it; it's the "Best for me".
dumpydooby - It is impossible to censor value judgments; I do agree. There must be a reason that the public can join this forum. If it was really intended for developers' eyes only, then you wouldn't be able to post without providing your own custom ROM or App prior to membership.
To quote Head First [Series] Software Development, (O'Reilly Pub.) "Great software development delivers what the customer wants."
the-equinoxe - I agree with you that A thread that simply asks "Which ROM is the best" isn't a valid question (or thread). But, a thread that says "Which ROM does A, B and C the best?" is a valid question. Plus, the-equinoxe, isn't your argument in favor of objectivity on the forum discredited by your "disclaimer" that your post only represents your own personal [subjective] opinion; that it isn't even a consensus of moderators or anything? (I'm just kidding with you on that - no flames here!)
JimmyMcGee - You're right on track with your point about the "best" IM discussion. It's my position that this can be done with ROMs (and should be done; read on).
msd24200 (taking these out of order) - you too are correct that some don't want to learn. But, you've got to remember the concept of "rational ignorance". I use my HTC for work, I need it working like I want it as soon as reasonably possible. I simply don't have time to flash several ROMs, or even spend hours on end Google searching through tons of posts. Just finding xda-developers forum in the first place was a big relief and shortcut for me for tuning up my device. While I'm just as interested in development for the HTC devices as everyone else is, I'm also interested in more things than I could learn about if I took the time for them all. Sometimes I just need the answer and we can all agree that HTC and Microsoft don't provide enough answers (or else this forum would not exist, according to the statement about why this forum was created). Which brings me to...
denco7 - You've hit the nail on the head with your "which country is best" analogy, although you might not have intended to. Let's say I respond to that inquiry and say, "I'd like a country where there is no war, no military, I'm a big banking enthusiast, I like clocks and watches, I like a predominantly cooler climate, am fond of mountains, and find Nordic-type women attractive [as long as I'm being stereotypical I might as well go all out! Please excuse any offense I may cause!]." Your response would then be, "Gee, they've got this Country called Sweden that's a lot like what you've described. You should start there first."
I think there is a section on here for "ROM requests". I couldn't find it, in a brief search, to post a link to it on here (which may suggest this type thread isn't common enough). All posts asking "which ROM is best" should be redirected [presumably by a moderator] to that "mod request" thread/forum/section so that the user can provide more details and then closed and/or deleted. If the area to post requests for recommendations such as this is visible enough (e.g. - I had no problem finding the HTC Raphael area, but I can't seem to locate suggest-a-ROM) then it will end much of the "which ROM is best" posts.
Lastly, there was a forum on www.tweakguides.com (it's still there, but it's closed). The site owner/webmaster, Koroush Ghazi, had a larger-scale issue with noobs who don't do research and post needlessly. It's better explained on the site itself. I have long been a fan of that site and greatly respect Koroush's work and his decision, and reference his site as an excellent resource in general. But as his post points out, there will always be a trade-off between supplying valuable information and objective critique and people who would rather waste time. It's all in how you choose to go about solving that problem once it becomes one (and I don't say that to be critical of what Koroush accomplished with his site or his decision to shut down the forums).
The point to all this; make an easily and quickly identifiable section (as easy as selecting what model of phone you have - with the pictures, or even a dedicated area) for requesting the best ROM FOR X, Y and Z. When I browse through the ROMs section, I just see the various code-names for the ROMs and posts that they are updated. I still don't know what they do. I don't have enough hours in the day to flash a few, or even to really get familiar with this forum. But I'd still like to learn, and the regulars on here are familiar with the forum structure. Just point those seeking the "best ROM" to the area where they can request a ROM that matches their needs without having to research, try, and try again every potential ROM out there. You've got to admit, even for someone involved in technology, learning about WM OS and HTC phones has a learning curve.
That's it, my $0.02 as it goes.
BPB21 said:
You're all close, but as a very new post-er to this board here's my thoughts (objectively speaking, the mere existence of a bulletin board/forum is a solicitation for comment, so I know everyone wants to hear what I've got to say!)...
DSF - you're on the right track, and I agree with your idea in general, but not specifically as to "best".
DaveShaw - I agree that there is no "best" ROM. However, you've got the right idea with your "niche", as you call it; it's the "Best for me".
dumpydooby - It is impossible to censor value judgments; I do agree. There must be a reason that the public can join this forum. If it was really intended for developers' eyes only, then you wouldn't be able to post without providing your own custom ROM or App prior to membership.
To quote Head First [Series] Software Development, (O'Reilly Pub.) "Great software development delivers what the customer wants."
the-equinoxe - I agree with you that A thread that simply asks "Which ROM is the best" isn't a valid question (or thread). But, a thread that says "Which ROM does A, B and C the best?" is a valid question. Plus, the-equinoxe, isn't your argument in favor of objectivity on the forum discredited by your "disclaimer" that your post only represents your own personal [subjective] opinion; that it isn't even a consensus of moderators or anything? (I'm just kidding with you on that - no flames here!)
JimmyMcGee - You're right on track with your point about the "best" IM discussion. It's my position that this can be done with ROMs (and should be done; read on).
msd24200 (taking these out of order) - you too are correct that some don't want to learn. But, you've got to remember the concept of "rational ignorance". I use my HTC for work, I need it working like I want it as soon as reasonably possible. I simply don't have time to flash several ROMs, or even spend hours on end Google searching through tons of posts. Just finding xda-developers forum in the first place was a big relief and shortcut for me for tuning up my device. While I'm just as interested in development for the HTC devices as everyone else is, I'm also interested in more things than I could learn about if I took the time for them all. Sometimes I just need the answer and we can all agree that HTC and Microsoft don't provide enough answers (or else this forum would not exist, according to the statement about why this forum was created). Which brings me to...
denco7 - You've hit the nail on the head with your "which country is best" analogy, although you might not have intended to. Let's say I respond to that inquiry and say, "I'd like a country where there is no war, no military, I'm a big banking enthusiast, I like clocks and watches, I like a predominantly cooler climate, am fond of mountains, and find Nordic-type women attractive [as long as I'm being stereotypical I might as well go all out! Please excuse any offense I may cause!]." Your response would then be, "Gee, they've got this Country called Sweden that's a lot like what you've described. You should start there first."
I think there is a section on here for "ROM requests". I couldn't find it, in a brief search, to post a link to it on here (which may suggest this type thread isn't common enough). All posts asking "which ROM is best" should be redirected [presumably by a moderator] to that "mod request" thread/forum/section so that the user can provide more details and then closed and/or deleted. If the area to post requests for recommendations such as this is visible enough (e.g. - I had no problem finding the HTC Raphael area, but I can't seem to locate suggest-a-ROM) then it will end much of the "which ROM is best" posts.
Lastly, there was a forum on www.tweakguides.com (it's still there, but it's closed). The site owner/webmaster, Koroush Ghazi, had a larger-scale issue with noobs who don't do research and post needlessly. It's better explained on the site itself. I have long been a fan of that site and greatly respect Koroush's work and his decision, and reference his site as an excellent resource in general. But as his post points out, there will always be a trade-off between supplying valuable information and objective critique and people who would rather waste time. It's all in how you choose to go about solving that problem once it becomes one (and I don't say that to be critical of what Koroush accomplished with his site or his decision to shut down the forums).
The point to all this; make an easily and quickly identifiable section (as easy as selecting what model of phone you have - with the pictures, or even a dedicated area) for requesting the best ROM FOR X, Y and Z. When I browse through the ROMs section, I just see the various code-names for the ROMs and posts that they are updated. I still don't know what they do. I don't have enough hours in the day to flash a few, or even to really get familiar with this forum. But I'd still like to learn, and the regulars on here are familiar with the forum structure. Just point those seeking the "best ROM" to the area where they can request a ROM that matches their needs without having to research, try, and try again every potential ROM out there. You've got to admit, even for someone involved in technology, learning about WM OS and HTC phones has a learning curve.
That's it, my $0.02 as it goes.
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Good summary, but I would recomment Switzerland instead of Sweden
Dave
mikechannon said:
WTF. Jeeeeesh.... where do you guys get off..... Switzerland, Sweden.... pahhhh! I say. It's obvious to those WHO BOTHER TO RESEARCH and do A BIT OF READING that Norway is the ONLY option here that is worth the attention of anyone with a brain cell count exceeding a single digit.
Mike
PS
Yes of course if a poster asks for suggested ROMs and in doing so gives a very detailed list of requirements, then the thread would not be closed.
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I've changed my mind and retract Switzerland.
Norway? What are you on Mike
It has to be Malta. (This could go on all week, so I'll stop)
Dave
ok while i got some mods on here and im thinking about it. i have to old compaq proliant servers that i am willing to donate if they can be used. is this something that xda-developers might want? if so pm me and let me know!!!
Agree with Mods
I completely agree with the Mods (also I use very low end devices, with not a lot of cookers)!
Because we all have our preferences when thinking which ROM is better, I may be ready to sacrifice anything for say speed or asthetics, but there may be pple (a lot of them) who want a mix of two. So what is best for me may not be best for you. And also there is no Sysoft Sandra like software in the mobile arena (sktools comes close) which can judge the actual performance of ROMs. Plus their tests are not what real life situation based. They are doing one thing at a time, while in real life, you are listening to a song or watching a video or surfing and a call or sms comes. So personally I prefer no comparisions. Come on the chefs burn a lot of mid night oil to cook this ROMs (and most of the users, including me don't donate a penny!), so what we can atleast do is give two hours of our 'valuable' time to check out their ROMs by ourselves. And we are so busy, then keep the original ROM and don't consider upgrading .
But its just my opinion nothing personal. I have tested nearly all ROMs in the Vox forum and Gene forum (for new Genes), and I am not a student , a working professional.
msd24200 said:
ok while i got some mods on here and im thinking about it. i have to old compaq proliant servers that i am willing to donate if they can be used. is this something that xda-developers might want? if so pm me and let me know!!!
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Click to collapse
I have relayed your Offer, as i'm not in any position to judge or say anything about it.
Thanks.
ok i hope i dont get banned
1st i agree with the mods ....asking questions that wont get "logical" answers will get you flammed even by jrs like me. BUT i will take adavntage of this situation. we have alot of mods all on 1 thread "that hasnt been close" soooo whoever has a kaiser can you advise me on a stable fast lite "preferably" rom that DOESNT freeze up when texting "its already getting warm!!!" i have tried many roms and cabs with no success ive even put on an aprion :used a kitchen tool" but still nothing. I EVEN GOT A REPLY FROM DUTTY HIMSELF "ull never guess how many pms he gets" so instead of walking around blind openning new threads ima be a smart kid and ask the smarter ppl! always works for me.
Making competition between chefs is good thing i think...With doing that, we'll get the bests rom (speed, stability, features, etc...). Those thread should not be closed i think.
There are a lot of roms on this forum, do you think people will test all those to find which one is the best ? I think they're lazy to do that if they know that somebody tested many roms and could give his advice, they also ain't time for that.
This is my opinion and Sorry for my bad (oh how bad !) english
edit: added poll
i believe that it would be a really great idea if one new market place subforum is added. this would be dedicated to finding genuinly great deals on phones or services that people normally look for here. there are just too many
a friend was about to pay an absurd $950 (locally)for an xperia 2 weeks ago and i managed to save him more than $250 based on a post (that was actully misplaced)
what do you guys think? please voice your opinion. if there is a lot of interest and if our request is reasonable. im sure the administrators wont ignore it
Some threads already discussing this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=469619&highlight=Selling
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=375362&highlight=Selling
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=336538&highlight=Selling
XDA-Developers isn't a market place and doesn't want to be IMO, we are a development forum. If a Marketplace was setup we would start attracting power sellers and scammers - there's no denying it, you cannot trust anyone on the internet . This would mean xda-developers would then have a responsibilty over what was sold on it's site.
Buying and selling of devices on this forum has caused problems before - a senior member on this forum scammed a number of users by selling devices that didn't exist.
Known users selling a second hand device after an upgrade is allowed (for the moment).
Thanks
Dave
i think the $700 he paid is too much. you can get it for even less from UK shops like expansys or handec or ebay even with shipping put into consideration.
the idea has merit but dave is also making a lot of sense .
mabe we can reach middle ground by creating a new "deals" subforum for all devices. a single subforum should not be that hard to moderatea slickdeals.net type forum is extreemly valuable to far too many people espeically new-comers.
oh and btw its now possible to buy decent wm devices for as litte as $160. pda+keyboard+3.5G+520mhz+wifi http://www.expansys.ae/p.aspx?i=147071
are you sure expansys.ae is not a scam site. a similar phone like this would cost about 2-3 times as much
i just added a poll in hope that this will give the admins a better idea what people want.
i just find it a bit unbalnced that there are so many uneeded forums (like accssories subforum for EACH phone that was ever created while something as usuful as this does not get a forum based on the ASSUMPTION that it will be abused.
how about they create a forum for a test period and if it proves to be problamatic the admins remove it.
As posted before
Already are threads regarding this
what i am asking for is a toned down vesion of what what asked before
-im not asking a per device forum.
-not asking forum wtb/wts forum.
im just asking for a single test forum that will help people find good deals on wm all smartphones. the moderators are already handling over 50 subforums. is one extra really a big deal??!!
now if only i could get more people to vote too see how other people feel about this
THE GRIZZ said:
i just find it a bit unbalnced that there are so many uneeded forums (like accssories subforum for EACH phone that was ever created while something as usuful as this does not get a forum based on the ASSUMPTION that it will be abused.
how about they create a forum for a test period and if it proves to be problamatic the admins remove it.
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To be fair, if you look at who it is that's saying "it's been talked about before, and we think that the idea is problematic and we don't really want it to become a marketplace" you might notice one significant fact that i believe you are overlooking. That fact is that we're talking about some of the more significant, long-term contributors to the forum, and people who have actually talked to the site admin before and know the owner's/admin's feelings about the matter. The issue isn't that we can't handle one more sub-forum, or even 10 more for that matter, but rather what that sub-forum will contain. You have not even been a member one month, and I in no means intend to put you down, but believe me when i say that if you spend the next year learning and contributing here on the forum, you will have a much different perspective than you do now.
There are already marketplace forums in existence but it does not belong here. Personally, I do not agree with people creating threads selling their devices on here. Many of us remember the Cuboosh scams that took place a short while ago and many considered him a valued member to this community prior to his shady activities.
In addition, I am undecided whether I agree with people linking their eBay listing here. If you want to promote more attraction to your listing do it elsewhere.
Below is a handy website that does have marketplace deals for many items. If you want to add deals on win-mo devices to their forums feel free too.
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/13-bargain-websites-that-are-cheaper-than-ebay/
Similar Story
A friend of mine is a mod on a site that has fairly heavy trading of sports cards and other collectibles. Admittedly that site is largely focused on that activity, or at least it has become a major focus over time (I'm not a member and have no part in it, so I admit, I know little of it's history).
He's told me a number of times about complications with scammers, and even repeat offenders who return even after being banned numerous times, which has even forced the site to have more moderators to manage scammers than mods for thread problems. To my knowledge (and logic), the site only supports people trading within the United States, which obviously has stricter laws and enforcement on mail scams than there are for international situations. Despite all of their efforts, they still have people trying to rip off others all the time. Given the nature of how easy it is to set up a website that even looks legit, plus crossing international lines in many cases, this site would be inviting the worst kind of activity where people would be spending large amounts on electronics that will never be delivered.
There's already a pretty good standard of people searching around and asking the forum if others have dealt with a specific site/seller before....which seems to usually just get more people suggesting expansys (why oh why can't there be a decent seller in the US?)
270 views and only 12 votes.im quite surprised with the level of interest of this idea.this does not look like it will fly here
are there any other good sites that provide for what im asking?
I've only been a member a couple of weeks (lurked previously) but like mentioned above, I see this forum as a development/support tool, not a marketplace. It's a place people come to learn about a device they've already got, or are getting. I undertand the reasoning behind your suggestion, but there are many, many other sources of purchase information/price comparison sites on the internet. I spent weeks researching prices before deciding on how to buy my Touch HD and to be honest, on that particular point, this site didn't really enter into it. It does now, obviously.
There are many sites in the UK that compare mobile phone prices, whether they be handset only, pay as you go, or monthly contract. I'm surprised there aren't similar sites elsewhere in the world.
I cannot vouch for any of these sites, use at your own risk, etc, etc, but I used them during my search for the best package:
http://www.mobiles.co.uk/
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/MobilePhones/default.aspx
http://www.mobile-phones.co.uk/
http://www.dialaphone.co.uk/compare_phones.html
THE GRIZZ said:
.this does not look like it will fly here
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it flew check the new section
No one is allowed to say XDA Developers is resistant to change ever again.
JimmyMcGee said:
No one is allowed to say XDA Developers is resistant to change ever again.
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Can I have an Omnia forum then, please
Dave
DaveShaw said:
Can I have an Omnia forum then, please
Dave
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I reject your change and substitute my own!
Dear moderators,
As a daily user of these fora I'm confronted with a disturbing inconsistency in your rules and how they are applied.
You have several that intend to prohibit outright selling of ones product. XDA wants to be as a-commercial as possible.
Alas some rules -like rule 11- focus on a form instead of intent. The wish of a cook or developer to know his/her users differs quite a lot from the wish to obtain money from them.
One could argue that from an administrators point of view a registration procedure is easier to spot so that the XDA house can be kept clean. But then I would argue that the phrases "free version" and "paid version" are as easily spotted. If you want you can search your fora right now and you'd be surprised how many applications whose latest version is no longer free are actively being advertised. Or maybe you won't be surprised, but I was.
I have been a moderator for many years on many fora. I sympathise and I'm perfectly familiar with the need for rules to enable and optimise the moderators job.
Alas, I'm also perfectly familiar the fact that those rules don't allways fit.
Rule 11 doesn't fit. There are better ways to safeguard your intention.
respectfully,
Willing to help, but currently disappointed about what you did to laurentius26.
Hello and thank you for your post.
We cannot comment on individual cases; however XDA's rules are there to ensure that we have a framework to work from that everyone understands. Also individuals sign up to these rules when they join the site ie they accept the rules and agree to abide by them. As in real life, no one is above the law/no one is above the rules.
In terms of items being out there on the fora that might violate our rules, let's look at the reality of the situation: we have over 2 million users and, last time I looked, over half a million threads. No matter how big a moderating team and no matter how active we are we cannot get to every violation. We do rely on responsible members of the community to report breaches of the rules to us so we can act on them.
We look forward to you doing your part to ensure that the moderating team is made aware of breaches of the rules as and when you come across them.
WB (XDA Moderating Team)
HorstDCC said:
Dear moderators,
As a daily user of these fora I'm confronted with a disturbing inconsistency in your rules and how they are applied.
You have several that intend to prohibit outright selling of ones product. XDA wants to be as a-commercial as possible.
Alas some rules -like rule 11- focus on a form instead of intent. The wish of a cook or developer to know his/her users differs quite a lot from the wish to obtain money from them.
One could argue that from an administrators point of view a registration procedure is easier to spot so that the XDA house can be kept clean. But then I would argue that the phrases "free version" and "paid version" are as easily spotted. If you want you can search your fora right now and you'd be surprised how many applications whose latest version is no longer free are actively being advertised. Or maybe you won't be surprised, but I was.
I have been a moderator for many years on many fora. I sympathise and I'm perfectly familiar with the need for rules to enable and optimise the moderators job.
Alas, I'm also perfectly familiar the fact that those rules don't allways fit.
Rule 11 doesn't fit. There are better ways to safeguard your intention.
respectfully,
Willing to help, but currently disappointed about what you did to laurentius26.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your post, and you make perfectly valid arguments but let me ask you this: just as you pointed out the fact that some apps where free but are now paid, what prevents an outside source to go down the same road? Certainly not our rules, we have no power outside of xda. I fail to understand the need to require a registration to get something that has been free on xda forever (no registration required). Roms can easily be uploaded to sharing services (RS, Megaupload, etc)... I understand the convenience of having all your work in a single place, but again... why require registration?
Although some members may get p*ssed maybe one phone forum at a time. Yeah those who have to wait till you get to their phone may not be happy but it should be less chaotic if the thread is limited to a particular phone.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using XDA App
My suggestion:
1. Be specific in your post. If you don't want us asking questions to which you've already composed answers, please post the questions you have so we don't repeat them. We cannot read your mind when you say, "I have your questions so don't ask the same ones."
2. Designate a moderator solely to that post. Probably not feasible, but if the moderator can make it primary focus, it can be kept civil and clean. A little work, but it could help the community.
3. While moderating, do not delete people's posts. If a question is posted that is being considered by SamsungJohn, simply replace the text with "Question is being addressed" or "Content does not benefit thread"
People are extremely disappointed in the whole communication realm amongst Samsung and Sprint so of course they're going to be a little raw. That's why it's extremely important to be VERY SPECIFIC in what you have and what you are looking for.
Next post example: "Here is the list of questions I will be addressing soon: 1) 2) 3), etc. Outside of those questions, are there any others you'd like addressed?"
My suggestion would be to have a live "meeting" that is controlled and moderated by a few moderators here at XDA. Users could log-in, forward their questions to the moderator, and they would forward to SamsungJohn. This would remove all the questions about "When" that everyone wants to ask and instead focus on what SamsunhJohn wants to support in the "How".
daryelv said:
My suggestion would be to have a live "meeting" that is controlled and moderated by a few moderators here at XDA. Users could log-in, forward their questions to the moderator, and they would forward to SamsungJohn. This would remove all the questions about "When" that everyone wants to ask and instead focus on what SamsunhJohn wants to support in the "How".
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I would doubt SamsungJohn is going to answer questions on the fly. He needs to time I guess to see if he can answer such questions. Actually I don't recall him saying he was going to answer any questions. He just wants us to ask questions that would benefit Galaxy S phones. Bug or defects that the phone may have.
Probably would be best to put it in the hands of moderators. They can weed out the repeat questions and all the where is froyo questions and maybe just pm a clean list of questions instead of having a thread that's gonna go straight to hell.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using XDA App
othan1 has the best suggestion so far.
Unfortunately, with the gigantic amount of negative feeling about Samsung right now, I don't think its wise to do any Q&A before a Froyo source is released. Thats when technical questions will be much more relevant.
This experiment failed for two main reasons, each the fault of each "side" respectively.
John came here with apparently good intentions, and raised a lot of hope. Initial response by most in the community was cordial and polite, if skeptical.
Then, gargantuan failure #1: John created substantial anticipation and excitement about some as-yet-secret "HUGE" announcement. When it turned out it was simply a reiteration of his presence, and role here, it was understandably an enormous let-down. It also, quite understandably, made a lot of people angry, feeling they had been played and duped.
John, this was entirely forseeable. Really. Obvious. If you understood that the hype ahead of the actual was mismatched, and you did it anyway, that doesn't speak well for your credibility.
If you did not understand how completely discordant the hype was and the actual announcement, then it demonstrates a naivete so profound that credibility is also severely damaged.
Mistake #2 was on the part of the community. In all it's anger and rage over mistake #1, the community was ridiculously unreasonable regarding questions and demands in response. Each of the SamsungJohn threads was pummeled with dozens of questions, and then criticism for lack of answers in a timespan of 1-2 hours. How utterly childish and ridiculous.
A 24-hour commitment to get answers back would be extraordinary. It takes time to get to the right people, get enough of their time to explain the issue, and then completely understand the answer. I'd find even a 48-hour response commitment to be more than fair.
So, in summary, from my perspective (that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee) Samsung blew it again by not understanding and/or taking this community seriously. The community blew it by being a bunch of hypersensitive hyenas.
PUT OUT OR GET OUT.
STOP THE BULLSHIIT
I HOPE THERE IS A CLASS ACTION SUIT For producing a piece of crap phone that doesn't work and then not producing fixed or updates.
dwallersv said:
This experiment failed for two main reasons, each the fault of each "side" respectively.
John came here with apparently good intentions, and raised a lot of hope. Initial response by most in the community was cordial and polite, if skeptical.
Then, gargantuan failure #1: John created substantial anticipation and excitement about some as-yet-secret "HUGE" announcement. When it turned out it was simply a reiteration of his presence, and role here, it was understandably an enormous let-down. It also, quite understandably, made a lot of people angry, feeling they had been played and duped.
John, this was entirely forseeable. Really. Obvious. If you understood that the hype ahead of the actual was mismatched, and you did it anyway, that doesn't speak well for your credibility.
If you did not understand how completely discordant the hype was and the actual announcement, then it demonstrates a naivete so profound that credibility is also severely damaged.
Mistake #2 was on the part of the community. In all it's anger and rage over mistake #1, the community was ridiculously unreasonable regarding questions and demands in response. Each of the SamsungJohn threads was pummeled with dozens of questions, and then criticism for lack of answers in a timespan of 1-2 hours. How utterly childish and ridiculous.
A 24-hour commitment to get answers back would be extraordinary. It takes time to get to the right people, get enough of their time to explain the issue, and then completely understand the answer. I'd find even a 48-hour response commitment to be more than fair.
So, in summary, from my perspective (that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee) Samsung blew it again by not understanding and/or taking this community seriously. The community blew it by being a bunch of hypersensitive hyenas.
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Amen...... But I would have to say that him being here and wanting to work with the community IS a huge announcement. I hope that we can all try and see the possibilities here, as opposed to tying him to the nearest tree and crucifying him. Is xda not about the free exchange of ideas as a community? I hope on the next attempt we can be civil, and actually accomplish something
This whole interaction failed because Samsung still has no idea what they are doing:
1. SamsungJohn says he has been watching the forums
2. If he has been watching, WHY does he need anyone to post technical questions
3. The problems with all the Galaxy S phones are well documented - here and with Samsung
4. Samsung offers no real support and so they think a forum will help them organize suppport issues
5. Samsung is more concerned with selling product then fixing issues
6. He offered nothing from Samsung to start this - Samsung should be extending an olive branch (the technical equivalent anyway) but they gave us nothing
7. Samsung changed their message from "Froyo by End of year" to "coming whenever"
8. Customers have lost faith and are moving on
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.
Most of us will not let ourselves be fooled twice. I am tired of technology companies promising fixes and not delivering.
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
stoobie-doo said:
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
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And that is why they posted here. So they can spread the 'outreach' news.
They know the issues. They've known the issues since August. Coming here and asking us what the issues are without even hinting anything will annoy most of the Galaxy S userbase.
Add to that, the 'huge' announcement was a thread to ask us what the issues with the phone are?
Me thinks John needs to be a bit more careful with the words he chooses. Very poor choice.
Huge would be telling us that 2.3 is on the way or we are all getting free upgrades to the Nexus S. Thats huge.
Telling us you are a liason from Samsung trying to bridge the communications gap is not huge. Thats to be expected from a professional company such as yours. Do no expect us to jump for joy over things you are expected to do.
stoobie-doo said:
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
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retweet this:
http://twitter.com/#!/vorathe/status/37634312098693120
I really think before SamsungJohn posts a Q&A thread he really needs to lay out ground rules specific to what he can talk about and what he can't.But really I think that without being sble to ask about future updates like froyo and other fixes for our phone there really is no point in even putting up a Q&A thread because the only stuff we all care about we are told not to ask about so it really is a pointless jesture.Othan1 pretty much hit the nail on the head with his post of suggestions but knowing what can be asked along with that would go a long ways to keeping things on track and not turning the thread into a mess of pissed off people.
Seems like all SamsungJohn posts have been deliberately 'hidden' from view. They all started in the general forum, one got moved to off-topic and the other one is in the about xda-developer.com forum?
WTH is going on guys?
next one will be in the winmo section... NOBODY will find it there!!! muwahahaha!
My concern here is that the forum is being broken up, into elite users, and peasants. Those of us who aren't part of the elite group, are being treated like don't deserve to know whats going on. Either everyone has an equal say, and have access to the same information, or we might as well switch to iphone (because Apple doesn't let us know what's going on either).
This whole matter is being treated by both parties incredibly poorly. I understand it's a big move for both parties, but it's disturbing that a move which is apparently related to improving transparency, simultaneously is being done behind closed doors !
Made a new post in general: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=958106
it'll either get locked/removed or one of the mods will provide an answer.