Related
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of view that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
I recently looked at a thread where someone asked a question that was answered somewhere else. Three members jumped on the bandwagon to flame to poor sod. Another member jumped in to defend the fact that people should be free to ask questions.
In the end, there were 12 replies to the question that, in that thread, was never actually answered.
12 posts just to discuss the relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered.
Most forums I have been a member of have some very strict views on staying on topic. This reduces the flaming which seems to do more 'cluttering' damage that questions that have been already answered.
So if I have a question, I will STF only to find 42,000 topics on the same thing that don't actually answer anything, but discuss the "relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered".
If the members, who should know better, stayed on topic then people would be able to readily identify the good threads more easily and not feel it nessesary to ask again... and again... and again.
So... Instead of flaming n00b questions that have allegedly been answered before, why don't the members of this forum look in the mirror and...
STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Note that I have posted this where I think this kind of discussion belongs... (i.e. not in any of the threads that actually deal with meaningfull discussions about phones).
Let the flames begin...
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
BaggyG said:
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of few that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
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STFU noob.
ok, I jest... but seriously, it did reach breaking point and something had to give... fortunately it's unwinding itself now.
Also to be fair to long time members though, every time a new OS version is out, the place is flooded with n00bs that usually don't even take the time to look at the threads presend on the same damn page.
It's beyond lazy, it's just ignorant to expect people to wipe their arse for them even if the toilet roll is right there in front of them.
Sometimes help is warranted and they get flamed, but when upgrading these expensive devices, they should take the time to understand more about it
Perhaps we should have an aptitude test before allowing access to the forums hehe.
shogunmark said:
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
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Gee... Hermes forum? How'd ya guess
I tried STF for a thread on this, but couldn't decide what to search on: n00b? Flame? Agro? Dummy spit? Ignorant?... So many choices
But okay... I've had my say so I'll pull my head in and get back to my life.
By the way... Great forum and wiki. Very helpful and informative.
Baggy
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
While I think it's important to encourage all members (yes I've seen a few senior members asking things that have been previously discussed in the same thread) I think the whole attitude about it is wrong. There's really no need to get all pissy about it, and much less calling people "noob". Really someone that goes off on a noob rant can't have much of a life in my opinion. We are all busy -some more then others- and we really don't want to waste time answering redundant questions, but isn't going off on someone and calling them a noob an even worst usage of our valuable time? besides..... who really gives a rats ass about getting called a noob.
In closing, if you feel a noob is bothering you, ignore him and he might eventually get the point, or behave like a human beign and help the guy out. However, as BaggyG says don't turn the damn thread into a name calling fiasko. One 20 word post asking a question is not as irritating as a 500 word essay on the stupidness of noobs.
GAMBIT999 said:
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
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since i dont frequent the prophet forum's and im not sure who our active mod(s) are for prophet, if you would let me know what threads need to be moderated i will be more than happy to flex my muscle in there.
and actually on that note....
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
shogunmark said:
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
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Just wondering if it would be possible to put an announcement or sticky on each forum identifying the mods for that particular forum.
Just a though...
Baggy
Damn. I saw the title and thought "Man, that'd be fun!" and everyone in here is complaining about it? (joking).
Seriously though it is a problem. But everyone here can do something about stopping it. I mean, if you know there is a solution to the question they asked and it's somewhere else in the forums, give them a link and tell them how to find these answers. If you don't know exactly where it is, tell them what forum to search. At the very least, say nothing. When people only read the last page of a thread it is very annoying but those are best ignored. There is absolutely no need to publicly flame someone and waste even more space on a thread.
I'm currently working on a bug tracking system for new roms so hopefully that will reduce a lot of these kind of questions by keeping answers with the questions and moderators and chef's being able to easily delete repeated posts.
It's just a bit of common courtesy which is as sadly lacking as common sense at the moment unfortunately.
Maz
http://maz.net.au/
one of the other things is the sheer VOLUME of replies, in the Hermes section, there are over 250 replies in a couple of threads! not meaning to sound lazy, but that is a hell of a lot!!!
of corse i'm reading them and reading repeat after repeat of questions that are the same.
Its great when the #1 topic poster goes through the posts and copies soloutions to problems and presents it in the 1st post!
hmm think thats covered just about everything on my mind
*gets flamethrower out*
Flamin' time =D
kiddin'
Y'all have to admit. Some of the "senior" members here have this god complex.
Once they manage to have their devices run unofficial stuff - even if it isn't their own work, and they were just following simple instructions, which don't really take much work once you get down to it - they think it gives them every right to go Bastard Operator From Hell to just about anyone else.
I guess it's pretty normal for unofficial channels, innit - I see the same kind of folks in emulation and driver forums. Not to mention linux and hardware boards. But some of the "ascended" here ought to remember that they didn't start as gods, and may not really be that much of a "god" after all.
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
No, dozen responses that don't answer the question are not the solution, but hey everyone needs to went somehow.
levenum said:
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
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I agree. There's WAAAAYY too much "how do I. . ." posts in the forums when all the information is already there for READING. More stickys at the top of the forums won't solve the problem, because the ones that are there WITH the information are not being read by the noobs even now.
It's really sad for me to see the direction that this board has taken in the past year. When I first registered, it was an AWESOME site with LOTS of users developing useful tools and apps to make these devices even better . . . a place to share ideas and to try out the cooked ROMs.
Then, we had an influx of new users about 6 months ago that simply couldn't -- or WOULDN'T -- search for answers before posting. Now, the board is so bloated with those useless posts/threads that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
While I still come here daily to check the General section and the Wizard section, I don't do much posting and only read the threads of general interest to me. I'll help where I can on answering questions -- but only if they haven't already been asked a gazillion times before. I still look for the tools and apps from the developers here to keep tweaking my phone to get the absolute MOST out of it, and I've flashed more ROMs from this site than Quaker's got oats. -- and all without asking "how do I. . ." or "I've bricked my phone. . . " because I READ THE INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!!!
It's really that simple. All you have to do is READ and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS -- step by step. Don't skip a step or leave anything out, and it works!!!
that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
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As much as I see your point, I have only 2 words to say. "Vicious Cycle".
I'm also a noob but i dont care because i know my options, first do a search ( which by the way is pratically unusable, but not only here all foruns have this problem), but in a community so big it´s comprehensive cause sometimes the answer to the problem is two threads bellow or in the next page, but no let´s open another thread asking the same thing, and i know that such attitude will lead to saturation of the older members.
The answer is simple if someone is in the mood answer if not leave it, until the users realize their options to search for things this will never end.
I'm glad to be here because above all it's a learning place for the ones who enjoy this platform and the ones who just like to know about varied stuff.
Cheers and have a nice weekend
yes thanks everyone for all thr help and advice. Keep it up!
Peace out
Registration fees
To alleviate the amount of worthless posts and to give something back to those that dedicate so much time and effort to this forum (rom cookers, admins and mods) why dont we add a registration fee to this forum?
Just a thought, but I would happily pay an annual fee of 20 eur / 15 GBP for this forum.
Searching
I think that quite a lot of the problem is with how difficult it is to get answers out of the forum search facility if you're not used to it.
Could it be possible to add a dumb-ass version that's the default?
There have been no end of times in the past when i've been searching for info on upgrading and I have to trawl through hundreds of irrelevant posts (most of them telling people to go to other posts that don't have the right info on them).
Also, back in the day there was a lot more info on the wiki section relating to the upgrading/modding etc but now (understandably given the number of devices available) the information only seems to be in the forums.
I like the idea of having a sticky in each thread listing useful articles on common topics. I bet no one will bother to read them though.
I still think my library illustration I gave over at TC stills says it best.
We all know the library is full of info on so many things you could want to know. And we all know what's expected of us in a library; go find the book on the subject. If you have trouble finding the answer, then ask your question.
I think where so many go wrong is thinking that they can just walk in to the library and start asking questions from whoever just happens to be there, rather than first trying to find the answer for themselves in the variety of books available.
And what's wrong with someone who at first was a noob - asking repeated questions - and then learning what's expected of them, and then expecting the same from others? You got told to be quiet in the library, at first you were offended, and then began to realize the benefit, and then inturn expect the same from others.
I really don't expect people to figure it out. Call me a pessimist or call me a realist.
Oh, by-the-way, have you noticed that this kind of topic always results in long, drawn-out posts?
It sucks that we have to go to 3 or 4 differnet sites now to get the most out of our Hermes! Black is now on win4 and others are taking thier ROM's other places. We are ruining what used to be great about having a forum, and that was having a choice.
Remember when you waited for Kypher's WXL2.0? were you like me and checked every day til it came out?
And then LSVW came out. Then Black! and wow Black1.2, and Black2.0!
Are we going to let Noobs take that feeling from us?! Screw the noobs...let them read and learn like the rest of us. I read through 1000 post threads and so should they! Its time for some tough love, discipline and ignoring them will help them grow.
JJ come back! Kypher; where are you? Make this the one stop cooking shop!
All you have to do to keep everything at THIS forum is not go to the new ones. Don't give their new roms any word of mouth etc. If they see no one gives a darn about their "new home" they will come back. It's that simple...
Shadowmite said:
All you have to do to keep everything at THIS forum is not go to the new ones. Don't give their new roms any word of mouth etc. If they see no one gives a darn about their "new home" they will come back. It's that simple...
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With all due respect, based on discussions with some of the departed (voluntary and involuntary - LOL), it is not really about people giving a darn. It is more about the user experience on the board. While I appreciate what you are saying, I think that your statement VASTLY oversimplifies the reasons they left. While some may have been motivated by money, status, ego-stroking or whatever, for others it was simply about a more expertly focused site. I am sure that all communities would value your memebership.
well for some of us this is what we do because we love it and dont mind keeping up with the 1000 posts like you said. i know i like to fill my head with as much knowledge as i can so i'll keep on reading and learning
Shadowmite said:
All you have to do to keep everything at THIS forum is not go to the new ones. Don't give their new roms any word of mouth etc. If they see no one gives a darn about their "new home" they will come back. It's that simple...
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Could not agree more!!! This is why a parted with Black 3.01 and future Black roms unless the topic and rom is posted here on XDA.... Same goes for all future cookers. I wont sign up like i did for that buggy iPhone dialer on some Chinese website i could not even understand the text or the few english words and a day later my in box was full of junkmail, i believe now he is cooking a white rom and it will be posted on another forum... My point is the same, these guys are getting over them selfs and are forgetting their roots on XDA.
Sorry to dissagree some of yours opininions. I read the wiki, search the entire forum but nothing comming up
1/ Everyone here used to be a noob once.
2/ The open forum is always better than restricted forum, because the more ideals the better modifiers. Sometimes, it's quite annoyed; but, hey, life is not perfect. Also, there are too many people flame noobs by using abusive vocabularies. Why don't ppl just point out the directions, or simple keep their silent and let the moderators do their jobs?
3/ Those ppl whose posts just to say "tks, I'm downloading now", "wow, that's great" ... into thread of new ROM should be banned for at least 3 days. I saw many senior members do this also!!! Ppl can always show their appreciate to chefs by cliking on the Donation Button.
Hence, my solutions is:
a/ Moderators should do some more. If this forum is lack of janitors, I'm volunteer to be one.
b/ Ppl please limit your abusive languages and try to play nice to each others.
Regards.
I was going to post a similiar topic. It is sad that the XDA we loved is not going to be here anymore..at least not with the same variety we had before. I do not have the time to read 4 message boards just to find the best ROM.
I hope LVSW and CUSTEL and XDALive (if it ever comes back to life) remain here on XDA since they are the best ROMs anyway. We need the Pofs' Olipro's, Tadzio etc......hope we dont loose anyone else.
Nghiem said:
Sorry to dissagree some of yours opininions. I read the wiki, search the entire forum but nothing comming up
1/ Everyone here used to be a noob once.
2/ The open forum is always better than restricted forum, because the more ideals the better modifiers. Sometimes, it's quite annoyed; but, hey, life is not perfect. Also, there are too many people flame noobs by using abusive vocabularies. Why don't ppl just point out the directions, or simple keep their silent and let the moderators do their jobs?
3/ Those ppl whose posts just to say "tks, I'm downloading now", "wow, that's great" ... into thread of new ROM should be banned for at least 3 days. I saw many senior members do this also!!! Ppl can always show their appreciate to chefs by cliking on the Donation Button.
Hence, my solutions is:
a/ Moderators should do some more. If this forum is lack of janitors, I'm volunteer to be one.
b/ Ppl please limit your abusive languages and try to play nice to each others.
Regards.
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1. Noobs still need to read and search. We often see noob threads that end when a link to a previous thread points in the right direction. Do you really think we just had that link saved in a Favorite...NO...someone searched for it.
2. I agree the open forums are great. But if you dont like foul langauge too bad! I dont use it often or ever that I can recall, but Grow up, it is not like you never heard a bad word before...did feelings get hurt...too bad man up.
3. I agree 100%
Well it is sad what things have come down to, but we still have some awesome chefs here and experts that blow my mind away. Lets not lose love for them. I too am frustrated and irritated with all these noob posts that flood entire forum. And the hermes forum has a horrible rep now. I for one wanna be a help to this forum. Im on this forum for about 7 hours a day. And i would love to volunteer to take care of this forum. Just anything to do my part in helping all the mods here.
I am frustrated with the word "noob"... its as bad as "sku" was during the release of all of the gaming consoles. I've been lurking here for a while. I've used the search function and i think it completely sucks. I did a search for "video dialer" earlier and the first result was the black 3.0.1 thread... all 103 or so pages of it. That was typical for the next 20 results. You can't hate on every person that creates a seemingly useless thread. If you want to help reduce the thread counts, then improve the search results. There's no reason not to help a new person... if this was the same logic that went with creating ROMS, think how crappy they would be. If a chef yelled "GOOGLE!" everytime they were looking for a quicker/better/faster way of doing something with their soon-to-be-released ROM, we'd never get any new ROMS. I guess my point is this, i know it sucks to have 40 new threads each day when i visit this site. But, i dont go jumping on the people that posted them, rather i think the responsiblity lies more on the shoulders of the moderators (no offense guys/girls, but I've done a lot of posting to various forums, even moderated one or two in my day, and that's just where i stand)... If you want to help eliminate useless posts, clean up the wiki and implement a better search feature. (and yes, using google to search within this domain helps... but not all new people know that).
sorry for the rant.
Like some of the other posters here, I would gladly offer moderation services to this forum. I agree that good moderation is the key to keeping XDA-DEVELOPERS vital and flourishing. Would be happy to help encourage the good and thwart the bad.
The F Word
forum (n.) a public meeting or assembly for open discussion
forum (n.) a public facility to meet for open discussion
forum (n.) a place of assembly for the people in ancient Greece
Bottom line, get over it!!
Noob, Expert, Chef, Senior, whatever.... It's a place for everyone to discuss everything and anything about a related topic. That's how we get along in this crazy world by helping others, sharing knowledge, and communicating...
If you want an experts only club then go create one and make it a specialised chat room with a private login.
*rant over*
allready got 3 actually
Midget_1990 said:
allready got 3 actually
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Lol... Shows how much the mods care about this topic.
almost kinda like the topic says, black & white..
The whole issue here is a little more complex and not really a black and white issue.. This isnt the first time chefs have the left the boards for other things, and we always pick up new chefs.. and alot of the old school chefs are still here and plan to stay, the same chefs that helped create the roms you guys so highly speak of. One of them will be releasing his own rom soon. And there might be a chef leaving this board to avoid being banned due to abusive behavior..
shogunmark said:
The whole issue here is a little more complex and not really a black and white issue.. This isnt the first time chefs have the left the boards for other things, and we always pick up new chefs.. and alot of the old school chefs are still here and plan to stay, the same chefs that helped create the roms you guys so highly speak of. One of them will be releasing his own rom soon. And there might be a chef leaving this board to avoid being banned due to abusive behavior..
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Off topic, but I gotta say it ... I get a chuckle every time I see that damn monkey with a gun.
weinson said:
Off topic, but I gotta say it ... I get a chuckle every time I see that damn monkey with a gun.
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maybe if i ever cook a rom again it will make a nice splash screen, lol
shogunmark said:
maybe if i ever cook a rom again it will make a nice splash screen, lol
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In these trying times he'd make a rather suitable XDA mascot.
shogunmark said:
The whole issue here is a little more complex and not really a black and white issue.. This isnt the first time chefs have the left the boards for other things, and we always pick up new chefs.. and alot of the old school chefs are still here and plan to stay, the same chefs that helped create the roms you guys so highly speak of. One of them will be releasing his own rom soon. And there might be a chef leaving this board to avoid being banned due to abusive behavior..
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Surely you must agree that dropping developers and gaining new ones is a little erratic? It just ads to the confusion where people install a ROM from this forum, then have to go else where for maintenance. I think a lot of these problems could have been solved if the developers were given their own sub-forum (based on popularity) and they were made moderators of their forum. That's it. They would then be responsible for the maintenance and the progressive state of their section. Right now the closest thing we have is a thread, which ends up in a few hundred replies, majority of which is total crap.
MrSmith22 said:
Surely you must agree that dropping developers and gaining new ones is a little erratic? It just ads to the confusion where people install a ROM from this forum, then have to go else where for maintenance. I think a lot of these problems could have been solved if the developers were given their own sub-forum (based on popularity) and they were made moderators of their forum. That's it. They would then be responsible for the maintenance and the progressive state of their section. Right now the closest thing we have is a thread, which ends up in a few hundred replies, majority of which is total crap.
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MrSmith - I think that is an excellent suggestion/observation - fwiw
Ok, there is something that I want to say.
I know I'm not making myself popular with this post, but I wasn't very happy lately with the comments or the reaction from some fellow Xda-Dev members lately...
This should be a community, where we learn and help each other.
Where we can share knowledge and cool roms (like Toms...) or apps (like Tene's...) etc...
But lately I feel like there are less real Xda-Dev members which appreciate the work and effort, those wizards out there make for us.
Only peoply always complaining about "the need of BETTER beta-testers", is it because these people couldn't test it before a release and are jalous??? Or people complaining about some bugs, and keep asking 100000... times about why there is this bug, how to fix it, or why don't you fix it?? etc... well, let me tell you a BUGFREE rom most likely wouldn't excist... and if you can do it better, why don't you put your TIME and EFFORT in it and make a fix for it... or better make a Rom and share it with us... let's see if you can make a bugfree cool rom??!!
Or people asking 100000... times when will there be a German version of this rom or a Dutch rom or etc... Or why put these apps in a specific rom? etc...
I'm just wondering, do all these people always send 100000... mails to HTC or Microsoft to ask them, why a specific app is in a rom? Why there are these bugs, why this, why that???
I'm just saying why don't we all just show some respect and appreciation to those wizards. To those whom sacrafise a lot of time and work into a project and share it to us for free. Off course I understand, the feedback we all give to these wizards will maybe help them to create a better version or help them make a fix for a bug. But there is some difference between giving feedback and just being a child and complaining ...
I opened this thread, because I feel sorry for Tom (and other wizards)... if you see the post on threads from his roms... more than half is just crap... is just people asking the same thing over and over again... I'm not sure about Tom, but I know I would get it on my nerves when I made something for a community and this would be the reaction... I would ask myself, if it's still worth it to invest so much time into something for all those people...
I used to looking forward to be able to logon on XDA Dev... but lately, I notice that even I got the time for it, I just don't feel like to logon... cause most likely I will missed a page or 2 or 3... but I'm sure I wouldn't miss any potential information...
This post is dedicated to all those Wizards out there... and I'm sorry... I'm sorry there are a lot off people just don't know how to show some respect to you... I hope I still can learn from you, and to use the cool apps and roms from you...
But I must admit, even I'm doubting, will I still comming back to this forum... or should I just leave it???
Just my 2 cents...
100 % agree with you....
Cheers!
you are talking right out of my heart.
i personally tend to ignore all those "but it has a bug!!11!!1" or "i donated few euros now i WANT that feature and i want it NOW" folks. but you are right: it starts to kill the core of the community.
lets all be unpopular together......
...I agree with everything you say cg...pointing out a problem and making the dev aware is one thing - complaining is another completely.
The amount of posts on this website pushing Tom Codon to release his 4.1 rom was stupid...when its ready its ready. If you don't want to wait - install a factory rom and stop whining.
I also have no problem (we've all done it) in asking a question because you can't find an answer...the main point being "if you can't find an answer" - a lot of people tend not to search and fill the forums with duplicate posts.
So...in conclusion....i may not be a regular poster, but I really enjoy reading almost every post on this site - but when you we are in a position when a poster such as coolgadget is thinking of leaving - we need to pay attention...
imagine what would happen in Tom decided to leave - or any of the other cookers - maybe thats what some of the people on here need before they realise what these guys do.
Rant over
I think your post will make you very popular and make you many friend.
I am on your side - only someone with your reputation is able to say that!!
Thank you my friend.
We all have to organize and discipline us in order to get a forum with easy readable informations which helps the community.
Not only consuming and defining requirements is here the right way!!!
Nobody does this in relation to HTC or Microsoft - and Tom and all the other devs work very hard (somtetimes day and night) - they should have the change to concentrate on cooking good roms - not discussing the same problems again and again.
Bottlm Line!
That my Friend is the bottom Line.
I always come on here with intentions of helping out anyone I can. I have been testing with Cool Gadget for a while; he and I have the same feelings here. I am literally drained when it comes to trying to read through the release posts.
I lose my confidence in this community when I read some of the statements, complaints and out right rude comments left by some users.
I appreciate every ones interest, and inpatients for the next release, I don’t condone it at all, but I do get it. You can be anyone you want to be on the internet, some choose to be who they really are, while some cant help but to be that person...
In short, Cool has this right on, I would repost it and change the name just to be the first to say it.
Please people, show a little respect and integrity, it really goes a long way
Thanks Coolgadget for posting this.
Even the original rom of HTC has bug's
Can we make this post sticky?
Ps. it's my 100 post
RE: Coolgadget
True, but might some people say this and that cus they would like to help work of the creator, and not cus they want to blame his work. Have you ever thought about that? And maybe these forums are for not only but for this reason as well, to let the developers help each other, let the users help each other, let the developers help the users and MAYBE vica verse.
Maybe I am wrong.
Regards,
Miklos
biou said:
I think your post will make you very popular and make you many friend.
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i also agree, it's not really fine to search in a thread with about 100pages and the most asked question is really "when do you make german rom", "and found this bug", etc it's really true. It's not comfortable to find real interestening threads. And such statements are totally useless for everybody. I like your point of view!
moderators can edit complains & ****ty comment away.
i was a moderator for a long time on a board, we made some rules.
There rules where simple, follow them or get a warning, still not listening, they got banned.
the normal respected members will always follow the rules.
the ones that are *****ing, making lame & dumb comments will eventually make place for the people that DO want to contribute in a healthy way
look at some of the new members their lame posts....
they are just joining to complain, say this is bad, this isn't good... bladiebladiebla...not good for the health of a community imo
serious, they need to give all the guys that are working on things like this in their spare time some credit.
Complaining & whining..... for stuff that is free....what a bunch of assholes
Good post man
I agree, but I guess its not easy for all newcomers (me included) to fully understand how much work is beeing put into cooking roms, hacking progz to make them better, and so on.
Havent we all been a nOOb? lol, im still one, but I feel like im climbing upwards to a higher plain of existence ( ) the more I read on this forums.
I didnt fully understand (do I yet?) before starting to cook for myself, even though I am provided by tools like the HyperCore kitchen by anichillus, I can see that its still damn much to learn, and that it takes alot of time. Cant even imagine how much hours the pros in here has used, and for free. Amazing..
Maybe we should start a "Guide how to..." section on frontpage, making a part called TouchFlo, one called dialer, one called commManager and so on.
Posting sollutions found in.ex on how to install the touch dialer on a fresh official rom and so on.
And why not let that be readable for everyone, but posting restricted to senior members?
There it could be posted answers for all the common questions ppl would have.
If that could be done, im sure the sections would be easier to scroll through, not having to read 100000 posts asking whythisandwhythathowtopleasethx.....
I dont think the forums will ever get rid of the newcomers asking alot of questions, over and over again. Like me Sending PMs to the wizards, asking questions (that im stupid enough to belive that 1000 others have not asked them about before) about how to....and so on
cheers masters
And Coolgadget, dont leave, we need you here.
itje said:
Good post man
I agree, but I guess its not easy for all newcomers (me included) to fully understand how much work is beeing put into cooking roms, hacking progz to make them better, and so on.
Havent we all been a nOOb? lol, im still one, but I feel like im climbing upwards to a higher plain of existence ( ) the more I read on this forums.
I didnt fully understand (do I yet?) before starting to cook for myself, even though I am provided by tools like the HyperCore kitchen by anichillus, I can see that its still damn much to learn, and that it takes alot of time. Cant even imagine how much hours the pros in here has used, and for free. Amazing..
Maybe we should start a "Guide how to..." section on frontpage, making a part called TouchFlo, one called dialer, one called commManager and so on.
Posting sollutions found in.ex on how to install the touch dialer on a fresh official rom and so on.
And why not let that be readable for everyone, but posting restricted to senior members?
There it could be posted answers for all the common questions ppl would have.
If that could be done, im sure the sections would be easier to scroll through, not having to read 100000 posts asking whythisandwhythathowtopleasethx.....
I dont think the forums will ever get rid of the newcomers asking alot of questions, over and over again. Like me Sending PMs to the wizards, asking questions (that im stupid enough to belive that 1000 others have not asked them about before) about how to....and so on
cheers masters
And Coolgadget, dont leave, we need you here.
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Yes i can follow you but there is a difference between the guys trying to initiate active (proactive) communication and that one which are only consuming!
coolgadget and chandlercjh
I'm in total agreement with you both in all your comments above. If people would only show some patience here especially with Tom and the work he is doing at this great forum... its would be a very sad day if he or any of the other senior members decided to leave. I don't make many posts on here but I am a regular reader and absolutely love the site. I just hope that more people show respect and an ability to use the search function... and i dread the nonsense we will have to read when we near v4.2 of Tom's great ROM.
Agreed fully
Hello Friend;
I completely agree with you.Its not fair that people who make ROM's and other apps are always crucified or pressured.Many time the same questiona are answered previously.But no one wants to read it,it seems.But another thing to be high lighted is that many people can't speak English well.This some time lead to messages which seems arrogant.But I have to agree the message u posted(I saw it before in forum) is the result of a gigantic ego and big mouth.He doesn't even pay anything for the ROM(forgetting a few bucks of Donations) and daring to complain like this.As u say such people can make their own ROM's and make it perfect and don't stop complaining.
And please remember that there are much more people here who are your fans and looks up to you.So please don't be bothered and continue your good work.
Regards and have a nice day.
My alplogies for my following comment as I am quite new here in the forum as well.
I completely agree with these statements here. It looks very childish (to put it in polite words) what many of the members write in their posts when they cry for tthe ROM in another language (you didn't learn english in school??).
Tom is doing a great job and he is ALWAYS polite. Try to behave in the same way!!!
For the beta-tester critics, I just like to mention that the SW from very big companies is also far away from being bug-less.
To mention I sent 10 bucks please provide me with this or that is ***
Come on, go in a restaurant and buy a coffe. What do you get for this money.
My impression is, Tom is doing this because he likes to do it, to share it and to contribute to a comunity. I call this respect. So, show him your respect as well.
Donate to show your respect to him and not because you want something.
my 2 cents in R-E-S-P-E-C-T,
g-fall
Try to imagine XDA WITHOUT Tom
Hi there,
What my dear personal friend Coolgadget apparently forgot to mention is that in a recent conversation we had with Tom -after having read some REALLY NASTY & RUDE posts- we urged him to leave and start using his valuable time to do better things rather than "attempting" to please the varied XDA crowd.
We also tried to persuade him to charge a minimum fee for each download.
In a recent post (some of you might even remember that) I have publicly suggested Tom to go to the beach instead of "wasting" his time following useless remarks of some outstandingly tactless XDA forum members.
All this TO NO AVAIL... Tom is a big-hearted and professional young man who LOVES EVERYBODY, kind and mean alike, generous and stingy alike!
Tom insisted and decided to continue HELPING EVERYONE 4 FREE... Isn't that magnificent?!?
Coolgadget (just like myself) gained among certain "noble" XDA groups a fair degree of unpopularity because of his straightforward writing style, because his posts are always right to the point and MOSTLY because he knows what kind of pain Tom has to "digest" when some people POST FASTER THAN THEY CAN THINK.
Please remember that this forum will never be the same if people like Tom or Coolgadget will decide to leave!!!
In the "Donations to Tom Codon" thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1471616&posted=1#post1471616) I have just posted how important nice and encouraging words are to Tom... I would almost dare to define them just as valuable as generous financial donations.
I thank you all once more for the understanding and support shown so far (and OBVIOULSY for the one you will keep on showing ) and I wish you a great day.
SiperX
I completely agree with the comments made in this post and I apologise for not having any input myself. Tom does indeed make some great roms that make the XDA Orbit/P3300, or whatever you want to call it, a far more useable piece of technology. I am surprised that the likes of O2, T-Mobile or HTC haven't jumped at the chance to showcase how enthusiasts are developing and pushing the boundaries with their technology.
I do think that one of the problems is language and that some people, whose first language is not English, may come across as quite rude when they perhaps don't mean to. This does not excuse peoples inability to use the search function or the ones that are blatantly rude and I would suggest that the mods here clamp down and ruthlessly delete both the rude posts and those that ask the same questions time and time again. Perhaps a sticky in the most common languages on how to use the search function might go some way to highlighting the problem and how it is ruining the forum.
I am not saying that there are not faults with the roms and that Tom does not require feedback; all I am saying is that those that can not offer useful input, who are rude or constantly demand things are not actively allowed to ruin threads.
My life with the Orbit would be far less interesting without Tom's work.
Many thanks and I will donating come payday.
What my dear personal friend Coolgadget apparently forgot to mention is that in a recent conversation we had with Tom -after having read some REALLY NASTY & RUDE posts- we urged him to leave and start using his valuable time to do better things rather than "attempting" to please the varied XDA crowd.We also tried to persuade him to charge a minimum fee for each download.
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hi SiperX and Coolgadget I can only request you to ignore those NASTY & RUDE comments as there are always some ants in heaven.Either we can put negative points for such whiners after a level they will be banned or just ignore it.I kindly request you not to be affected by these remarks by some IDIOTS who think they can have their way.
Coolgadget (just like myself) gained among certain "noble" XDA groups a fair degree of unpopularity because of his straightforward writing style, because his posts are always right to the point and MOSTLY because he knows what kind of pain Tom has to "digest" when some people POST FASTER THAN THEY CAN THINK.
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For this I consider you and others who male this forum a big contribution.But please remember there are many who admire you too.I admire Tom and his works.Not just him the forum itself and many volunteers who make apps in their free time and distribute it freely.
Please remember that this forum will never be the same if people like Tom or Coolgadget will decide to leave!!!
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I hope that day never comes.Is there anything we can do to help you?
FYI
this matter seems resolved
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
It saddens me
I was a bit disappointed hearing this from a marvelous developer such as you are but I believe you are not evil because you have tried your best to bring us the best out of our devices
Please do reconsider...
I hear what you're saying, mate. I lurked around this place for over six months before making my first post, just reading up and learning. People don't want to read anymore...they think that this place is the instant free tech support center.
djboo, I don't agree! Most of the threads in D&H subforum are developer or constructive threads. This is not an easy thing to accomplish, and I think it shows the quality of the forum. You can't disable access to "noobs", developers make their stuff for everyone, not just other developers or experienced people! I'm glad if other people like something I make.
Partially agree...
djboo said:
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
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I partially second that, although I think that membership seniority based on number of posts isn't the best practice if to implement what you proposed. As I, for example, don't post a lot but read the forum for almost 2 years, and have dev. background (and I guess there a lot of others like that), there are some that post a lot of questions and/or comments that are not that dev. inclined or do not have the knowledge (yet?).
I do see your point here, and me too stopped following the TF3D thread after tons of non development related issues. Maybe putting Dev/Hack as read-only and people would have to ask a mod / admin for posting rights on it? And then giving full access to the Q&A thread / new section? So devs. could enjoy it more, general community could still get the latest (downloading newer version from Dev/Hack, etc.) and get questions answered in an orderly fashion... BUT, what with those nice little apps people write and post here from time to time, that come from someone that is not THAT involved in the community? They'd simply go elsewhere, and I guess this IS the most valuable asset the community have. With all due respects to the "regulars", I think those that pass by once in a while and contribute are
invaluable too. Guess it's the price to pay for innovation, having to sort through the non-sense to find the gems.
In the end, I think the problem here are the filters we use. Maybe we just need to find a better way to organize the data here, so it's easier to follow... What I do hope, is that whatever is done, doesn't change the essence of this great oasis...
I kinda agree with ur second part but i'm sure someone would have told the mods if it was a "dangerous app", rite?
I am a noob
Ok, I understand quite well what you are saying. Being a noob myself, i am learning as much as i can, slowly but I hope surely.
I try to read thoroughfully each thread that I have interest in.
The only regret I have is the search engine. For example, I'm still searching for a thread where it explains how to modify spb mobile shell files to have PI8 as the default calendar. I know the intel is there somewhere, but I'm having a hard time to find the right post/thread.
So maybe one of the possibilities would be to enhance a little the search engine or the way results are shown => enlighten the searched words...
Please reconsider, don't be to hard on the noobs, I think we aren't so bad, some of us want to learn.
And thank you very much for your patience, talent and ideas.
I do agree too that there is too much "I like that.... whats it for?" when a lot of the time the developers do put the information in their posts. BUT..... sometimes these STUPID, RANDOM comments do contribute by putting an idea out there to be expanded on. Sometimes they provide needed feedback and ideas.
If you restrict access to these areas then you may as well shut down the site.
This is a forum and as such there will ALWAYS be those annoying clueless posts but you have to remember that you were once there yourself...
You have to make allowances for those members who DON'T speak english very well as they may be very tech savy but just have difficulty putting their ideas down in English. They may actually give something back..
And thats my 2 cents
hi all
in fact there was a section missing , here , for asking
seems they are doing something very soon , reading the sticky thread
Here
and so the D&H will come back to be free for real dev
djboo perhaps you are a little hasty in this thread and I agree with some of what you say, however, alot of ppl respect everything you and other developers give us immensely! without ppl like yourself alot of us would never use Windows Mobile devices, instead following the masses of other "mind washed" CrApple iphone uses, anyway please don't stop sharing just because a few mindless teenagers didn't get enough Oxygen at birth!
people make their own choices. if you post something which might trigger a brick and someone uses it you can blame him for either trying something without investigating first or for just being plain stupid (depending on the circumstances).
the fact that this section is a target for terrorist idiots action isn't different from any other internet or real forum in the world. people tend to go wherever's warmer and cuddle there.. and try to suck every little ounce of good they can find in that place.
that's why you can find thousands of stupid posts and questions instead having a clear, professional section. not using search, not being able to read rules before posting.. that's international.
as for restricting... I must disagree to the proposal. it would require more work from the dev to find the members he'd like to share this with instead of just posting his work. and being a senior member on this forum means NOTHING considering it depends on the number of posts you have rather on how long you've been around or how much you have contributed to this community.
but what i do suggest is, that a member will have to be at least X months old in this forum to post. this will make people use search and learn before they come up with stupid questions.
cheers.
As a link above has p[pointed out, there is a new forum coming for questions. If you really have a problem with some of this noob questions, PM a mod/report the post.
Also, if you want to post a thread as an announcement, rather than a questions/answers thread, PM a mod to get it locked.
If you don't let new members post, they will never find anything out.
One final thing: you yourself have posted this in an area in which it doesn't belong. It has nothing to do with Development or Hacking, it's about what happens in this forum. As such, I'm going to move the thread to the "About xda-devs" section.
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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that man said it better than i ever could.
l3v5y said:
If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
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i dont want closed developing. i want developing. currently the main thread in question is more like doing lines for teacher. once a day, log in, "HTC-CA drivers disable shutdown, TF3D uses those drivers. use manilatoggle to disable TF3D before you power down" x10
djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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djboo... I understand where you are coming from, but I also do not totally agree with your comments. Although I may be a noob, I do have a lot ov experiance in computing. I do not have the time to develop of backwords engineer apps. I wish I did. I would enjoy doing it. I agree with you that the thread owner should be able to delete posts that are off topic, but I think the thread owner should also move a question with an answer to the first page if they see multiple posts. This would make it easier to find some of the common answers. I agree that users should use the search, but it does not always return what you are looking for. I have made a post and been berated for not using the search (when in fact I had). I truly enjoy the work you and the rest of the developers are doing. Without you guys, my phone would be quite boring, but because of the work done on this site, I am quite happy with my phone and how it operates. I have friends that think I am a god because I help them with thier phone, but I would not be able to do half of what I do if it were not for the work done here. I hope you go back to work on Manilla3D. We noobs need the knowledge you provide. As for off topic posts such as the nes on the Manilla3D thread, a lot of them go on due to people endulging these people by answering thier post or flaming them. I have seen senior members do this and all it does is fuel a lot of these guys. Ignore them! Geez, I have had my ligidimate questions ignored, why not ignore the non-ligitimate ones? Anyway, I will get off my soap box. I appreciate everthing all of you developers do and I hope one day I will have the time to contribute to the development community. Take care.
It is possible to set up a "thread owner" or thread based permission system but it would take some work and more importantly a Vbulletin developer to iron out the issues that may come up.
I have tried it on one other site but it was a little difficult. Of course I think a more productive idea is to have developer groups. Vbulletin has a group system built in as of 3.7 and it allows for comments and such. In 3.8 it will allow groups to have their own message boards. With a little help you can set up 3.7 to also have message boards controlled by the owner of the group.
DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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djboo said:
that man said it better than i ever could.
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Yup that's why it's in my signature under XDA Mantra.
Ha, yes-it really is!! I love xda, find lots of great stuff, I buy the apps, blah, blah.. I even tried to comment(no reply). How many 'dislikes noobs' do I see lol!! I'm not hideously noobie & we all start somewhere right?! Kind of off putting to be honest..not really fair to those of us that like using the site-I wonder how many questions go unanswered..
Just my little rant.. disgruntled, female(aaargh!), noob..xx
Hehehehe..
If someone says he dislikes noobs. it is his personal opinion not of xda...
We at xda focus on helping everyone who needs it. (I too need help as m nt a developer)
So if some of the questions go unanswered ..belive the fact that either no one knows it or the one who knows it havent seen it yet
I know one of the member who was very rude ... bt he helped others alot (scolding them alongside to search first )
lol!
doctor_droid said:
Hehehehe..
If someone says he dislikes noobs. it is his personal opinion not of xda...
We at xda focus on helping everyone who needs it. (I too need help as m nt a developer)
So if some of the questions go unanswered ..belive the fact that either no one knows it or the one who knows it havent seen it yet
I know one of the member who was very rude ... bt he helped others alot (scolding them alongside to search first )
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Thanks, was venting-just being female!! Onwards & upwards!:laugh:
Hi xeexe,
As doctor_droid mentioned, sometimes questions can go unanswered purely because others don't know the answer OR it was buried in the forum too quickly and therefore more people, who may have been able to help, wouldn't have seen your thread.
Just like any other situation, whether it be on an internet forum or in real life, there'll always be those who are helpful and those who will ignore/moan at you asking a question. That's natural but there's generally more people around ready to help than there are to dislike you. Don't let it put you off though as this forum has a great community and you can learn a ton of new stuff from here aswell.
By the way, if you're still having the same issue with your phone I suggest editing your thread again so that the question is posted and then bump your thread up so that people will be able to see it at the top of the forum again
KidCarter93 said:
Hi xeexe,
As doctor_droid mentioned, sometimes questions can go unanswered purely because others don't know the answer OR it was buried in the forum too quickly and therefore more people, who may have been able to help, wouldn't have seen your thread.
Just like any other situation, whether it be on an internet forum or in real life, there'll always be those who are helpful and those who will ignore/moan at you asking a question. That's natural but there's generally more people around ready to help than there are to dislike you. Don't let it put you off though as this forum has a great community and you can learn a ton of new stuff from here aswell.
By the way, if you're still having the same issue with your phone I suggest editing your thread again so that the question is posted and then bump your thread up so that people will be able to see it at the top of the forum again
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Thank you I ended up sorting out my 'issue' anyway but then you need to ask to have a post removed, do you? And could you?! My previous post-had an issue flashing roms but it's okay, I was being a noob, lol!
Yeah, I won't let it put me off, love the site-just over-sensitive I guess
xeexe said:
Thank you I ended up sorting out my 'issue' anyway but then you need to ask to have a post removed, do you? And could you?! My previous post-had an issue flashing roms but it's okay, I was being a noob, lol!
Yeah, I won't let it put me off, love the site-just over-sensitive I guess
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In most cases threads won't actually be deleted but as the issue is resolved abd had no replies anyway, just report it by using the orange triangle on that post and ask for it to be deleted due to the above reasons
KidCarter93 said:
In most cases threads won't actually be deleted but as the issue is resolved abd had no replies anyway, just report it by using the orange triangle on that post and ask for it to be deleted due to the above reasons
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Thanks
Okay, so since we have things resolved I'm making a noob friendly closure of this thread