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I Love Windows, i'll start with that, i've tried macs, i've tried iphones, i've tried blackberries and i've always come back to windows, both on my computer and my phone.
Here comes the but....
Having upgraded to both winmo 6.5 and windows 7 on lappy....OH GOD microsoft have lost their way! i've just spent an entire day rolling back my laptop to XP and my phone to 6.1! I'm fed up of microsoft changing the visual aspects of their Os's but not actually properly addressing the problems inherent in the old versions. i've made a pact with myself now, i'm NEVER going to upgrade the os on my laptop, i don't care what comes after windows 7, XP seems to be the zenith of windows OS's...and as for my phone, i'm sticking with 6.1, i may consider winmo 7 - but only after i've got some REAL positive reviews from the folks here at xda.
So i guess this was a bit of a pointless thread to start seeing as i don't really have a problem to solve, but i wanted to know what everybody else's experiences are and if any body else thinks the same as me....that windows is on it's way down, and quickly if it does do something drastic, and soon!
I'm lovin' WinMo 6.5, fixed a ton of bugs and issues I had with 6.1. I am eagerly awaiting my Windows 7 licenses to come in the mail. Just because you're familiar with something doesn't make it better! Take the time to learn the new features.
Part of the reason I went with Sprint was to get the TP2 with WM6.1, not 6.5. I will not be upgrading to 6.5 when it is available.
I've been running Windows 7 RC on two laptops for several months and I just installed the release version on my server at home. I also have a stock Tilt2, running Windows Mobile 6.5, and so does my wife. I've run every version of Windows over the past 10 years, and my previous WinMo phones were a Tilt and a Fuze.
For the first time in a long time, our computers and phones aren't, well, problematic. They just work. I don't know, maybe we're lucky. But the level of stability and speed on our computers and phones is pretty impressive. It seems to me that Microsoft finally got its s*** together. No major issues at all. In fact, only a couple of very minor ones.
I installed 6.5 on an old ipaq to see if I would like it. I will definitely not be upgrading. Actually I mean I won't be installing it, because it's not an upgrade.
When Windows Mobile first came out it really targeted the business community. Now after seeing the success of the iPhone they are trying to go fo the enthusiast market, and honestly their product doesn't align well with an iPhone users needs. This is why we are seeing these half-assed attempts to make it finger friendly, when at the end of the day the business user like myself is left with a weaker product. And blackberry saw Microsoft's errors and has captured the business market...
Message to Microsoft - There is nothing wrong with buttons or a dpad or a scrollwheel.
dagordon said:
For the first time in a long time, our computers and phones aren't, well, problematic. They just work. I don't know, maybe we're lucky. But the level of stability and speed on our computers and phones is pretty impressive. It seems to me that Microsoft finally got its s*** together. No major issues at all. In fact, only a couple of very minor ones.
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I agree, W7 is awesome (especially Media Center) and 6.1 on my Tp2 is rock-solid so far.
Did M$ really, finally get it together? Maybe, maybe not, but its sure a lot more seamless now...
I can't speak to windows 7, but i does have some neat features I'd like to try down the road.
I have no issues with WM6.5. I is a littler different than 6.1, but don't see it being worse. Id first I didn't care much for the different look and feel, but that was just me being unfamiliar with it. Now I'm running TouchFlo 3D/Sense 2.1 and would choose that and the 6.1 (HTC) Home screen over the 6.5 default home screen.
Not sure how true this is but I stumbled across it and figured I would share.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100114PD216.html
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-to-Launch-Windows-Mobile-6-6-in-February-132099.shtml
Hm, interesting stuff, I am thinking that maybe 6.5.3 has evolved to 6.6, but the extra support of Capapcative makes sense seeing as how Microsoft is looking at moving into that type of screen.
Honestly Resistive screens have come a long way and our TP2 is just about on par with a capacative screen but official support is the next logical step. I still don't like the enlarged buttons at the bottom though.
Why do they do this...finish one damn OS as best as possible and then move on. Windows has like 6 in development and we can't get one of them unless they are cooked beta releases...absurd.
If they do delay 7 until 2011, it will be the death of Windows Mobile. That pushes it to nearly 4 years to develop it. Apple and Google can come out with a decent OS in less than a year, why can't Microsoft?
It may be that mainly it's just a marketing decision. Marketing 6.5.3 as 6.6 gives it more appeal to the general public, more of a new step away from the "flat" 6.5.
And doesn't some flavor of 6.5 already have capacitive support, hence the HD2.
Xebec said:
Apple and Google can come out with a decent OS in less than a year, why can't Microsoft?
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Apple has complete control over the hardware. Android is a much simpler OS than WinMo. That is part of why.
This certainly doesn't make sense to me. Why is M$ bothering with WinMo 6.x at all? They should be allocating all available resources to WinMo7!
I like WinMo, but even I have to admit that it's glory days are long over. If it weren't for HTC and the XDA forums,
WinMo would have been dead a long time ago. Certainly, M$ knows this.
WinMo 6.1 is like a car crash victim. Apple and Android has ran over it at 80mph several times over. The WinMo 6.5 update is like applying a bandaid. It helps, but clearly it's not enough. Major reconstructive surgery is required in the form of WinMo 7. But instead of rushing to prep the O.R. they're applying another friggen bandaid in the form of WinMo 6.6!
This news is very disappointing to me. It appears that I have no choice but to jump ship to Android over the next several months. I had really wanted to give WinMo 7 a shot. But anyway, I still hope WinMo 7 turns out the be a success.
ZUUL42 said:
It may be that mainly it's just a marketing decision. Marketing 6.5.3 as 6.6 gives it more appeal to the general public, more of a new step away from the "flat" 6.5.
And doesn't some flavor of 6.5 already have capacitive support, hence the HD2.
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Did you know that "Windows 7" is really Windows 6.1? If you don't believe me, go on a Windows 7 computer and run "winver" (shortcut for Windows version).
Windows 7 uses Vista kernels, which was Win6. So Win 7 is 6.1 as it's simply a performance tweak with a few tweaks over vista.
I just believe Win 7 was what M$ aimed to to achieve while releasing Vista, and heavily failed.
Microsoft seems afraid to come out with anything really NEW. For years everything they've released has just been a patch on top of what's already there or a reaction to the competition eg Zune
They want to keep compatibility, even with software that's ancient and not even really used, but in doing so shoot themselves in the foot with layer upon layer of fixes that just end up with bloating and slow down. For instance, why on earth are they still using NTFS, is it really the best available with it's constant fragmentation leading very quickly to your system crawling along?
I read some article recently comparing the the time it takes to do simple tasks on a modern quad core machine with an old machine running Windows 3.1. Bet you can't guess which came out on top !
I think what their problem is is that 10 years ago they really were at the top of their game and ahead of the competition. Since then they have been resting on their laurels and don't want to rock the boat too much for fear of losing customers. They're more interested in keeping old customers who might open their eyes and look elsewhere if things change too dramatically. This is typical of a company that has grown too large where nobody wants to take a risk and stick their neck out.
It's a pretty sad state of affairs really since they used to do so well and obviously have the money and brains to do a lot better. I can't see anything changing much soon until their core business market (conservative and unadventurous by definition) starts to move away from Windows laptops, Outlook and Exchange Server.
Edit (just remembered):
Anyone heard of Gates' Law ? This is the man himself confirming what I have just mentioned :
http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/Gatess-Law.html
http://codebytez.blogspot.com/2005/08/gates-law.html
They are planning on using both OSs. Thus the continued development of 6.*.*
I'm sorry but the Gates Law thing is rubbish.
When I was doing my Masters I was using a 'state of the art' 386dx running an excel spreadsheet modelling fluid flow through soil under a dam. To obtain an accurate result he model had to be run overnight. I tried it again a few years afterwards on a Pentium 3 running the newest version of excel at the time and it took a few of seconds.
Now if the law had said that software doubles in size every 18 months then I coud believe that one
Seriously people, this is not a press release from Microsoft. While I don't doubt the 6.6 release, I would put absolutely zero faith in their opinion that this will push back WM7's release.
ohyeahar said:
This certainly doesn't make sense to me. Why is M$ bothering with WinMo 6.x at all? They should be allocating all available resources to WinMo7!
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9 women can't make a baby in a month, and 10,000 devs can't make an OS in half the time as 5,000 devs.
Toleraen said:
9 women can't make a baby in a month, and 10,000 devs can't make an OS in half the time as 5,000 devs.
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Well said. Although the comparison is unfair it does make the point.
stunno said:
I'm sorry but the Gates Law thing is rubbish.
When I was doing my Masters I was using a 'state of the art' 386dx running an excel spreadsheet modelling fluid flow through soil under a dam. To obtain an accurate result he model had to be run overnight. I tried it again a few years afterwards on a Pentium 3 running the newest version of excel at the time and it took a few of seconds.
Now if the law had said that software doubles in size every 18 months then I coud believe that one
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You're correct in that instance, but that is the processor not the software
The point I'm making is that Excel used to start from scratch to an empty spreadsheet faster than it does now.
I'm sure my old Hermes used to boot faster than my TP2. My first Nokia defiantly did !
OGIGA said:
Did you know that "Windows 7" is really Windows 6.1? If you don't believe me, go on a Windows 7 computer and run "winver" (shortcut for Windows version).
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and if you go to settings/about on a winmo 6.5, you can see it is 5.2.xxx
doesn't necessarily mean you are using winmo 5
if you want more info you can see http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2009/10/the_story_on_th.html
OGIGA said:
Did you know that "Windows 7" is really Windows 6.1? If you don't believe me, go on a Windows 7 computer and run "winver" (shortcut for Windows version).
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Microsoft could easily have called it Windows 7 internally, as well as in marketing. The reason they did not is not that, "it is really 6.1". Rather, Microsoft wanted to not "break" existing hardware/software that was programmed to look for a 6.x OS which would, then, not run under 7 due to the different major version number.
I think it's fair to say that just as XP was not really an incremental update to Windows 2000 (NT5 vs NT5.1), Windows 7 is also more than a mere incremental upgrade to Vista (NT6 vs NT6.1). The features and underlying OS changes, in both instances, bear that out.
Hello everyone. Can I have some expert opinion please? Do we think that the tilt 2 which was just released last Oct. and I just got mine last week, will be able to support windows mobile 7? Do we think that AT&T will upgrade the OS when it comes out? Being and owner of win mo phones since the 8125 first came out, I know how slow AT&T is to release updated OS's.
This is by no means an "expert" opinion. But the general consensus nowadays is that only the HD2 is confirmed to support WinMo7 and our TP2 will not.
But, consider this:
-WinMo 6.5 was not meant to be on the Touch Diamond.
-WinMo devices were not meant to run Android.
-Sense 2.5 was not meant to come to our TP2.
Yet all the above are happening thanks to the great minds of XDA developers...
I'm not an expert at all...
But it seems like it's one thing for W7 to be somehow cooked to run on the TP2, but another thing for it to run well, without excessive lag (for example).
ohyeahar said:
This is by no means an "expert" opinion. But the general consensus nowadays is that only the HD2 is confirmed to support WinMo7 and our TP2 will not.
But, consider this:
-WinMo 6.5 was not meant to be on the Touch Diamond.
-WinMo devices were not meant to run Android.
-Sense 2.5 was not meant to come to our TP2.
Yet all the above are happening thanks to the great minds of XDA developers...
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This is a great point. Whenever someone dares to mention WinMo7 on the TP2, you get flamed and the spec impossibilities yelled at your face. But exactly my point about what people said "couldn't" be done!
It definitely won't be easy, but as long as the OS is cook-able, somebody will take on the task.
What worries me is though, WM7 may not be WM at all! Several reports told something about Zune OS being used instead, and being incompatible with any of the old applications. I hope not
sukru said:
It definitely won't be easy, but as long as the OS is cook-able, somebody will take on the task.
What worries me is though, WM7 may not be WM at all! Several reports told something about Zune OS being used instead, and being incompatible with any of the old applications. I hope not
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The Zune OS is based off of the Windows CE kernel, which is also the base for Windows Mobile, so there wouldn't be complete incompatibility as some of the false rumors lead you to believe. There are a lot of blatantly false rumors floating around on even the most respected WM sites, so take every unconfirmed rumor you read about WM 7 with a grain of salt.
Though I would love Windows Mobile 7 on the Touch Pro2, I have to say that it's pretty unlikely it'll happen. First, to everyone who gives the example of WM6 running on WM5 devices and WM6.5 running on WM 6.x/5.x devices, the reason this is easy is because all these operating systems (WM5-WM6) run the same Windows CE 5.2 kernel. It's a lot easier to backport an OS when it uses the same kernel. Windows Mobile 7 is going to be based off Windows CE 6 or 7, and it'll likely take a hell of a lot of low-level work to get WM7 on the Pro2.
If you don't believe me, look in this thread at PPCGeeks, where some of the most technical people discuss this issue in more detail. It seems to me that we'll need a new everything, from the SPL and bootloader to new hardware drivers (since it's extremely unlikely that WM7 will support the Qualcomm MSM series considering the rumored WM 6.5.x and WM 7 coexistance scheme, where only 6.5 supports lower end devices and hardware like the MSM series).
I'm not saying I don't want WM 7 on the Rhodium, since I really do, but I am trying to be realistic here, so I'm gonna say it's likely no to WM 7 on the Pro2.
one guy from htc russia announced WM7 minimal requirements: 8Gb onboard, CPU1GHz,FM, 5Mpx,compass,G-sensor,3,6",WVGA.
but of course its not true
My Universal (2005) came with wm5!
Then upgraded to wm6, then to wm6.1 and I got it working with wm6.5
I´m sure the great chefs here will manage something so we can have wm7 for sure!
Im done guys with Wm my Hd2 is up for sale no update for hardware that can run Wp7 they can have wp7 my hd2 is up for sale and i just picked up my new Nexus one just flashed the new HTC Desire Rom running at 1.3GHZ Im happy Hello Android mabey next time WM mabey next time
Maybe next time, punctuation. Maybe next time...
Personally, I'm in the 'Buy a phone for what it can do now, not what I hope it might be able to do in the future' school of thought.
Sure, no WP7 is a disappointment, but if you own an HD2 (as I did for a while), you got what was being promised. For me, it was the lack of a keyboard that made me get a TP2, but the HD2 is still one helluva phone.
No announcement has been made. I'm gonna laugh if the HD2 ends up getting an update.
bye bye cry baby, i swear you guys crack me up. how can you be upset when you bought the phone without anything being announced if you bought it because YOU THOUGHT it was getting an update thats your own fault, ms didnt tell you ANYTHING. and the hd2 is gonna have wp7s soon enough, maybe not officially but who cares, custom roms>>>>>>official roms
I would be glad to take your HTC HD2 off your hands
The forum would be way better without such threads. But on the flip side it's funny to see how stupid some people are (sorry but it's the truth)
RAMMANN said:
The forum would be way better without such threads. But on the flip side it's funny to see how stupid some people are (sorry but it's the truth)
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Indeed. Im mad they are not releasing Iphone OS to my HD2.
(eventually the chefs will be making a version for the HD2, so come on.)
kel16harris said:
bye bye cry baby, i swear you guys crack me up. how can you be upset when you bought the phone without anything being announced if you bought it because YOU THOUGHT it was getting an update thats your own fault, ms didnt tell you ANYTHING. and the hd2 is gonna have wp7s soon enough, maybe not officially but who cares, custom roms>>>>>>official roms
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It's not so much the lack of an upgrade that's the problem, it's the combination of that plus WP7 being incompatible with Windows Mobile software. That's one thing nobody was predicting a few months ago, and it means that there is no longer any reason for a commercial software company to continue working on any Windows Mobile project - see, for example, Adobe's decision to scrap FlashPlayer on WinMo.
To say "your phone won't get an OS upgrade" is one thing, but to say "your phone won't get an upgrade, and incidentally we also neglected to mention that your phone's current OS would cease to be a viable platform for commercial software about three months after you buy it" is something else.
And it is not by any means certain that there will be custom ROMs based on WP7.
leeuwtjevanjuda said:
Indeed. Im mad they are not releasing Iphone OS to my HD2.
(eventually the chefs will be making a version for the HD2, so come on.)
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I doubt it. The reason chefs have been able to make WM6.5 for older devices is because it is still based off of the same kernel as 5.0-6.1. If you are familiar with cooking ROMs for older devices, you would realize that we are still using 6.0 drivers on all of these 6.5 ROMs. Once the kernel changes, however, those drivers will most-likely be useless.
And yeah, buying the HD2 probably wasn't the best idea.
apreichner said:
I doubt it. The reason chefs have been able to make WM6.5 for older devices is because it is still based off of the same kernel as 5.0-6.1. If you are familiar with cooking ROMs for older devices, you would realize that we are still using 6.0 drivers on all of these 6.5 ROMs. Once the kernel changes, however, those drivers will most-likely be useless.
And yeah, buying the HD2 probably wasn't the best idea.
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It's also possible to run 6.5 on the Himalaya, which is originally based on PPC 2003 = different wince kernel.
RAMMANN said:
It's also possible to run 6.5 on the Himalaya, which is originally based on PPC 2003 = different wince kernel.
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But the Himalaya still got WM5, so that still means it got WinCE 5.2 kernel one way or another. Once it got a 5.2 kernel, it can run anything from WM5 all the way up to WM6.5.x
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
But the Himalaya still got WM5, so that still means it got WinCE 5.2 kernel one way or another. Once it got a 5.2 kernel, it can run anything from WM5 all the way up to WM6.5.x
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alright that finally explains it. Didn't know they got an official WM5 release.
The HTC HD2 is an impressive device even without WP7 As for upgrading it, there will be a debate but, they will chose to release a HD3 instead. Feel free to sign the petition though,lol http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/hd2windowsphone7/
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=5475&tag=content;col1
I'm quite on the contrary
Ironically a handful of days ago I made similar decision. Except for that I was really, really pissed off by Android and decided to switch back to WinMo. So I got a HD2.
Now I'm (again) having:
- The capability to play almost every media format on my phone
- *REAL* GPS navigation suites
- Serious, polished, and visually attractive games, by lots
- Proper tool to manage my personal (2 of them) and business mail accounts, with attachment, reply record and everything
- Excellent applications to read *AND EDIT* Word and Excel files. It's vital to have this as a translator who frequently has to work on-the-go.
- PDB, PRC, CHM, LIT, TXT, RTF, DOC, DOCX, HTML, PDF in short, whatever document format I may need to read. And the tools to do this are generally extremely polished
- The freedom of setting the phone on true mute mode once and for all, unlike on certain idiot OS where you set the thing on mute, all system notifications get silenced, while everything else from media player to games continue to sing how ever loud it likes
And what I no long have:
- Don't have to pick from a thousand not so different but frequently buggy cooked ROMs
- Don't have to flash my phone like once per week to keep up with new version of cooked ROM franchise
- Don't have to comb through 10K apps, filter 90% of them (crapware swarm), and pray "God give me some actually useful app please, amen"
Anyway, I'm not sure why so many people chanting around "Android is much, much by the outdated WinMo". I believe that the value of a smartphone is reflected by what it can achieve. WinMo so far is still much better than Android on satisfying my professional and entertainment needs. Yep its UI is no match for Android's (at least less colorful). But I can't care less about that. Beautiful or not, get the job done first.
As to WP7 update. Well, I'm having great faith on XDA. Even if Microsoft and HTC decide to screw HD2 owners big time, chances are pretty good the magnificent young men (and women) here can make an unofficial update happen. It doesn't really matter for me if this is not happening. Right now I'm having everything I need already, and I'm happy. WP7 is only a plus.
it's so true ....
chassit said:
Ironically a handful of days ago I made similar decision. Except for that I was really, really pissed off by Android and decided to switch back to WinMo. So I got a HD2.
Now I'm (again) having:
- The capability to play almost every media format on my phone
- *REAL* GPS navigation suites
- Serious, polished, and visually attractive games, by lots
- Proper tool to manage my personal (2 of them) and business mail accounts, with attachment, reply record and everything
- Excellent applications to read *AND EDIT* Word and Excel files. It's vital to have this as a translator who frequently has to work on-the-go.
- PDB, PRC, CHM, LIT, TXT, RTF, DOC, DOCX, HTML, PDF in short, whatever document format I may need to read. And the tools to do this are generally extremely polished
- The freedom of setting the phone on true mute mode once and for all, unlike on certain idiot OS where you set the thing on mute, all system notifications get silenced, while everything else from media player to games continue to sing how ever loud it likes
And what I no long have:
- Don't have to pick from a thousand not so different but frequently buggy cooked ROMs
- Don't have to flash my phone like once per week to keep up with new version of cooked ROM franchise
- Don't have to comb through 10K apps, filter 90% of them (crapware swarm), and pray "God give me some actually useful app please, amen"
Anyway, I'm not sure why so many people chanting around "Android is much, much by the outdated WinMo". I believe that the value of a smartphone is reflected by what it can achieve. WinMo so far is still much better than Android on satisfying my professional and entertainment needs. Yep its UI is no match for Android's (at least less colorful). But I can't care less about that. Beautiful or not, get the job done first.
As to WP7 update. Well, I'm having great faith on XDA. Even if Microsoft and HTC decide to screw HD2 owners big time, chances are pretty good the magnificent young men (and women) here can make an unofficial update happen. It doesn't really matter for me if this is not happening. Right now I'm having everything I need already, and I'm happy. WP7 is only a plus.
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+1
That’s what comes to my mind when I think Windows Mobile vs. Android
Actually I really don't care if Windows Phone 7 doesn’t get an "official" release for HD2.... Its current state is a "Solid Windows Mobile 6.5 PocketPC" which is exactly what was intended for it to be.
enjoy your little crappy java machine LOL that'll show em.
nucentury08 said:
Im done guys with Wm my Hd2 is up for sale no update for hardware that can run Wp7 they can have wp7 my hd2 is up for sale and i just picked up my new Nexus one just flashed the new HTC Desire Rom running at 1.3GHZ Im happy Hello Android mabey next time WM mabey next time
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Click to collapse
"mabey" go to school and learn to spell next time? Just as a suggestion..
For Sale
My Xperia X1 is for sale as I have found out that it won't run Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition. Im also going to buy a Nexus One as it has a better chance of running Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition first! LOL
leba837 said:
My Xperia X1 is for sale as I have found out that it won't run Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition. Im also going to buy a Nexus One as it has a better chance of running Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition first! LOL
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I PM'd you with my offer
I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry
Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.
I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.
+1 good post b
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
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So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..
Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.
style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
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I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.
style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
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No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.
Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
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The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.
If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~
vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
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HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
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Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.
Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S