Develop Bugs

Note to NOOBS. You're really annoying. READ! - REMIX

Attention NOOBS. I'm becoming less patient with your posts that include whining and redundancy. This forum isn't here to provide you with all the comforts of your carrier. These roms and installing them is for people who are advanced users of WM. If you need your device for work or if you're new to PocketPCs this isn't the place for you. These roms aren't for you so please stick to your carriers’ rom.
The chefs of these roms aren't here to help you setup your device and to solve all of your issues. If you have issues read, search and fix them. The research is part of the fun...finding fixes is part of the fun. Finding new ways to configure your device and setups is FUN. By asking first you're not participating in the best part of the forum. Questions like...my keyboard is wrong and it doesn't look different or I can't connect to the internet are redundant. Those questions have been asked, answered and fixed OVER-AND-OVER AGAIN....WHY KEEP ASKING?
I'm not anti-noob. I was a noob once and I am still a noob in many ways. I also know that there are some good noobs in the forum. But I'm tired of taking the time to read the threads for critical information and coming across posts for how to install a new theme or where did the backlight on my keyboard go. That's where your user manual or the HTC website comes in. For Cingular people you have a great resource over @ the Cingular forums.
This is a community of like minded technical individuals. This is not HTC tech support or your carriers support. No one here owes you ANYTHING. You install a rom it's on you. If you can't take the responsibility then don't install the rom. It's pretty simple really.
I just had to get that off my chest. I'm sick and cranky but that only played a small role.
Again TIP YOUR CHEF!!!!! and donate to XDA. To all of you that make this a interactive vibrant technical-minded environment THANK YOU!
When I posted this the first time I was trying to prevent what has eventually happened. We've lost one of our genius rom Chefs. So...thanks guys!
Admins....
As for fixing the "noob" issue...I think there is one pretty good solution.
I think the only way to fix such an issue is to either restrict new users from they'll use that period of time to read. Because if they choose to install a rom and they know they can't post a question they'll probably be more apt to read.

I agree with Xultar that a minimum registration period before posting should be enforced, and any BLATANT stupidity should reset the period.
This seems like the best idea. Someone mentioned having a sub forum only accessible by experienced members. Denying read access to the masses however would make this a very exclusive club, which I do feel strongly about.
I am still a relative noob, but found this site and was reading away well before getting my first WM device. It was partly this site that gave me the confidence to try such a device instead of a dumb phone. If I had looked around and seen only the stupid questions, with an inaccessible sub forum that I could not read, then I would have moved on elsewhere and not discovered all the things I have.
I guess it all depends what the key developers here want to achieve. If it is an exclusive club where everyone is a technical whiz then OK I am screwed and will miss this forum. That decision is however entirely theirs to make and no one has the right to tell them what they should or should not do or judge them in any way.
Along with many who do try to avoid asking stupid questions and do try and RTFW first, I can only hope that they choose to try and spread the word so to speak - don't mean to sound all preachy and religious - and that a way can be found to reduce the hassle they get from morons.
I remember seeing one of Sleuth's posts - he said he took no responsibility if anyone chose to use that bit of software and if you bricked your phone it was on you and hard luck. He also added that if that did happen, he would however do his best to help fix any issues. Exactly what I wanted - I knew the risk and choice was mine, but knowing that someone with a lot of knowledge would try and help was very reassuring.
Anyway, thanks to all the deveopers who have helped with the Hermes forum, and to anyone who wants to flame me, just please keep it civil. (There has been rather too much rudeness recently, as tensions seem to have increased... - just my view)

I agree, a "seniors only" forum section would be advantagous but would repell alot of potential members.
I made my guides to help the newbies along the way but i have always said to read the threads and RTFM in order to increase thier knowledge of the various things we do here. Yet still I get very STUPID questions which have been addressed in the guides, why should I write them if people arent going to read them correctly!?!? (rant over hehe) Thankfully on the whole I havent had so many annoyances as jass and the rest have.
I figure this is like a game of lemmings, theres only so many levels you can go through guiding them on the way before you lose your rag and blow them all to hell!!
If people have simply signed up to get thier chosen version of WM6 then piss off thats exactly NOT what we want! ROM chefs dont spend the time to cook these ROMs for people to just download then come back whining when they dont fucntion as they want.

As I've frequented my fair amount of forums, I'd suggest for specific ROM Downloads, or Radio Downloads, Cab files, that users there me be a hidden link and set for users to see if they have a certain amount of posts. Good to that is that you will see Quickly who is simply spamming to get access. Just a thought... I've been able to SuperCid, and Sim Unlock, as well as upgrade to WM6, just by reading several posts and the WIKI. It's really not that difficult.
Even me would not be able to access with some of these restrictions, but that is alright as something like this is very much needed.
ROMS = 50 posts, or active for 8- 12 months
Radio = 40 posts, or active 6 months
CAB files = 25 posts or active 3 months, etc...
Thoughts???

mrvanx said:
If people have simply signed up to get thier chosen version of WM6 then piss off thats exactly NOT what we want! ROM chefs dont spend the time to cook these ROMs for people to just download then come back whining when they dont fucntion as they want.
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I agree - I joined up before you could even SIM unlock without going through EMEI check. I joined up so as to learn about my device and then help spread the knowledge if I could.
It will be harder to sift out those hit and run artists however. Perhaps say a three month delay before you can download or post? removes the quick fix junkies hopefully - although unfortunately many will now be registered already. Perhaps if the post count is under an arbitrary number then the posting delay would come in, but you could PM a moderator to show you had not asked silly questions and get it revoked? Maybe too much work for mods though.

Agreed, I dont think I have been guilty of blatant stupidity, I have bricked my phone once but enough reading around the various forums and its fixed and fine.
If you arent capable of learning for yourself, you have no real business being here, you certainly shouldnt be flashing a £2-300 phone then complaining when it goes tits up.
PhatFarms approach sounds workable though.
Sad to see Jasjamming go, that kind of altruism is pretty rare these days......

chrisjasper said:
Agreed, I dont think I have been guilty of blatant stupidity, I have bricked my phone once but enough reading around the various forums and its fixed and fine.
If you arent capable of learning for yourself, you have no real business being here, you certainly shouldnt be flashing a £2-300 phone then complaining when it goes tits up.
PhatFarms approach sounds workable though.
Sad to see Jasjamming go, that kind of altruism is pretty rare these days......
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hey guys,
im not going, just laying low for a while till things settle down and become a developer forum again, or atleast not a howard forum.

Good luck sport, maybe now you will have more free time and your wife wont be taking your credit cards away......

Great ideas.
Let's just add taking money for reading the posts (and sending money to the posters) and we will kill this forum forever.
The whole Internet idea, if you like it or not, is to share information freely.
There will always be the lamers that will ask their stupid question, and there always be the people that will share their great work with the others.
Anyone (from either side) can join or leave anytime he like.
Jasjamming (The "black guy") did a great job, I relay mean it.
But his leave would not end the great work of this forum.
l hope he will change his mind and decide to continue his work with the others even that some lamers are here.

I think a senior forum would work.
Sure all the ROMs would leak out onto bittorrent etc, but surely that doesn't actually matter? It would be to stop the n00bs moaning about dead phones. if they don't have the rights, they can't post regardless of if they have the ROM or not.

jasjamming said:
hey guys,
im not going, just laying low for a while till things settle down and become a developer forum again, or atleast not a howard forum.
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Click to collapse
At least you can sleep now?
Jas... do you want me to remove your ROM from my mirror? I noticed you removed your own download link, but I don't know where you stand on mirrors?

It's sad to see ppl who don't want to learn join and ask stupid question.
I have joined since 2005 but never post once
Yes! this is my first post!! haha
I want to thank jasjamming for his hard work... and all the ROM chef.

One of the things that has caused an increase in NooB's (in my opionion) is that knowledge of these roms (as well as links) get posted on to howard forums and those same users come rushing in to download the files without paying attention to the fact that this isn't the HTC customer support forum. I agree with what JJ ended up doing only cause I am STILL reading through that forum and have only spotted about 4-6 actual issues the rest are repeats or dumb comments (up to page 42).
Personaly I am far from a developer, but taking the time reading through threads has given me a lot of knowledge about what my device can do.
I like the ideas of having some kind of feature that NooB's can join, and even download, but at their own risk, and after a waiting period can then post etc. even if you make it just for the WM6 forums until a branded official rom is released in q3

Im wondering what the mods opinion is on this issue??
I think probably the best thing to do is as phatfarm suggested, a postcount limit which you must have before you can download an attachment? Thing is the wiki does have the links to the various ROMs so thats the way you get around it.

mrvanx said:
Im wondering what the mods opinion is on this issue??
I think probably the best thing to do is as phatfarm suggested, a postcount limit which you must have before you can download an attachment? Thing is the wiki does have the links to the various ROMs so thats the way you get around it.
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That in conjunction with a 30 day waiting period would work for Noobs.

I totally Agree
I totally agree with you guys. It's sad to see how things have turned out lately. I have been to this site off and on for a few years now (just reading actually), and loved everything that I read. Now in a sense I can be called a noob (I joined in 2/07), but technically I am not. I am coming from the symbian os (Nokia N93) and the minute that I got my windows mobile phone (February of this year - 8525), I joined this site. I read and read and read, never really felt the need to post, because you can find everything you need either by the wiki or just plain clicking on the search button, but I guess most people don't see that button
Anyway, I agree that something should be done to stop what has been happening in the last month, but I don't think that saying we should have a senior member forum only or you have to have this amount of post to get it, will work. Because if you look at JJ's, Kyphurs, LVSW threads, you will see that there were people who had a lot post and even a few junior and senior members who complained and questioned. There are a lot of people who come on and actually read and never post, because they search and figure things out without having to question these great chefs. I personally don't want to have to come on here and began to post everyday to get to junior and/or senior status. I never once complained since being here and believe me, since the release of these WM6 roms (Kyphur's first), I have been flashing 2-3 times per week. So much, my wife has gotten sick of it.
I think, you should continue to let people join and continue to flash, with the understanding that, they are doing everything at their own risk. What I think should be done is, people who have been a member for 3-6 months or less would have to have there post/threads approved by the mod's before it could be posted. Sought of like on myspace when you post your initial pic, they tell you that it is pending approval and that it if approved, it should be posted within 24 hours. They even have a function where you can have it set on your page, that if a person leaves you a comment, it will not post until it has been approved by you. You can either delete or post it. That's how I have my page set up. It would be a lot more work on the mod's, (I don't even know if that is capable), but it would cut back a lot of stress on all of the chefs and even the people who really sit and read/search and get the answers that they need.
What do yo think?

True, this would be much more easier to contain if M$ didn't shut down the ability to put roms on the FTP. People could earn their way in, maybe give access to certain users could be a lot of admin work entering all the compliant users, I would be willing to help with something to that degree, giving time to those that spend countless hours helping out people like me.

JuniorPhatFarm said:
As I've frequented my fair amount of forums, I'd suggest for specific ROM Downloads, or Radio Downloads, Cab files, that users there me be a hidden link and set for users to see if they have a certain amount of posts. Good to that is that you will see Quickly who is simply spamming to get access. Just a thought... I've been able to SuperCid, and Sim Unlock, as well as upgrade to WM6, just by reading several posts and the WIKI. It's really not that difficult.
Even me would not be able to access with some of these restrictions, but that is alright as something like this is very much needed.
ROMS = 50 posts, or active for 8- 12 months
Radio = 40 posts, or active 6 months
CAB files = 25 posts or active 3 months, etc...
Thoughts???
Click to expand...
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Idea sounds good but the noobs do tend to post a lot....
Most of it rubbish or repeated requests over and over and over...........
Another problem is that some of us (like me) have not been on the forums long but are far from noobs because we have only just switched to a hermes from another PDA
Suggest big sign on front page:
THIS IS NOT A SUPPORT SITE

Perhaps longer than thirty days? If you are serious about this stuff then there is sooooo much to read and understand, and then read again. This would hopefully avoid all the
"I just bricked my phone! - HELP ME"
or
"I want Crossbow - where can I download it"
where people do not read first.
Postcount limits might encourage lots of one line no purpose posts, and to sort the good from the bad requires a lot of time and effort from mods.

self inflicted problem?
one of the problems is that most *interesting* posts (new releases, etc) are 10+ pages long and full of pointless posts and cr*p ("can't wait", "downloading now", etc.). reading these posts have become more and more difficult. Doing a search also leads to loads of crappy posts.​
The problem is that the higher your rating / grade / status, the more likely you are to have innondated the forum earlier with pointless posts. A senior member-only forum (or similar) will create more incentives for people to post crappy things until their postcount is high enough... don't think this is the way forward.​
As for removing the link to WMBlackEd2.0 and stop releasing public updates: although i fully respect jasjamming's stand on this, I think it goes against the spirit of this great place. there is a difference between "decommissioning" something, and not "supporting it" anymore. I feel the link to the download should be there for people to install the rom and try it, and future releases made public (if thats what he intended to do in the first place) but the thread should be a closed one: people, download it and support it yourself or don't download it at all if you don't know what you're doing.​
maybe this will deter enough neebies from the site and help make this place the great place it used to be.​
the wiki should be used as front page for the site, with all resources there. I am sure not everyone knows about the wiki, as it is somewhat hidden from the main xda-developer page.​
just my thoughts...​
by the way, I have not posted for a while as i upgraded / downgraded / sorted out issues all by myself after doing loads of reading and searching... but I must admit that only 10% of the posts on the whole site are helpful/meaningful - the rest is an attempt by people to increase their postcount.... and this really puts me off.

about recent hostilities

Sorry this is so long but I feel strongly about this.
I too have few posts as anyone can see. I joined in Sep '06 but have been an avid reader of this forum since my company bought me a Siemens SX66 several years ago.
While I have noticed a marked decline in the quality of posts on this site, I have also seen an amazing increase in the quality of products the senior people have put out.
I think this fact coupled with the rising popularity of Windows Mobile and HTC products is inviting more and more people who would be otherwise too scared to try flashing their expensive gear to feel comfortable enough to give it a go.
Personally, I consider this a hobbyist site and as such, while the senior people will only gain experience and become more adept at their hobby, the noobs will continue to be noobs with the same noob questions, just more of them.
If this site is ever to work as an open hobbyist site, then I think it behooves everyone to step back and take a breath and think about what that goal will require.
1) Seniors - as your skills improve, and you work in this hobby more and more, you will inevitably see more and more of the same questions. Have mercy on the noobs. Truly some are lazy leechers others are perhaps "just getting their feet wet." Everyone has to start somewhere and sometimes that "start" begins with what you may think is a dumb question but is considered valid to the user asking it.
2) Noobs - think about your questions before you ask them. Realize that you are getting the benefits of senior people in this hobby and treat them accordingly. They are doing more to give you free "customer service" than the companies that you gave your money to in the first place.
3) Everyone - I see this problem as having many smaller pieces that perhaps can be improved to help create a better environment.
a) The built-in vBulletin search function sucks arse. Someone posted how to search this site using Google. Perhaps removing the built-in search would get people more familiar with a better search tool and perhaps return more relevant entries.
b) Pay to play - If you are a serious hobbyist then paying a subscription fee to gain access to the hard work others have done should be worth it. You can't or won't pay then you are on your own.
c) Private or Tiered forum for more Senior folks. Entry could be by application/invite allowing a senior moderator to evaluate the applicants quality of participation first. This would also force noobs to start contributing to the group versus just leeching.
Lastly, I have seens several posts where it is obvious that English is not their first or even learned language. I have read the wiki for my device and I have had to read parts several times to understand them. I think for many to whom the language might be a barrier to participation a little extra patience should be granted.
This is an absolutely awesome forum. I have been a benefactor of the work others have done and have several devices that are much more usable, enjoyable and longer lived because of this site. It would be a shame for this forum to crumble under the weight of the hostility that has been present the last few months.
Please, let's all find a way to keep this site useful, friendly and enjoyable for all of its participants.

Some good points but I personally don't have any problems with the search as you have got the options to search the forums, narrowing down your options, and the search this thread to really go deeper.
What I have seen on other forums is - like you say in point c - a lockdown of specific groups until you've got a certain number of posts/been around for a while/been approved so that it can be established that you're familiar with the forum and don't just post crap/leech stuff. Maybe something like that could be employed.
But let's face it, the quality of releases lately has brought far more attention to this forum rather than those who would come here because they knew what they were doing.
Just my thoughts.

If people are offended by Senior members when they ask a stupid question, then they can go somewhere else. HoFo is a great place for beginners. And since ROM flashing isn't a task fot for a beginner, there is no place here for those members.
Sure, I've asked stupid questions, been confused, etc., but I normally seek out a solution. Many n00bs (as they're commonly called) just ask without searching - and that's often obvious to those who are willing to read a 55-page thread.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the ROM kitchen. Period.

I agree with most of what you say.
I have been on this forum for more than 4 years now and it's been the best forum I have ever used to play around with my "toys".
Noobs are noobs and I even ask silly questions sometimes but I think that this site should remain the same.... It's a gold mine for every person like me wanting to play around and get the best out of his toy.
Long life to this forum

I've been on so many forums for so long and all of the ones that are any good have these very same issues. I recently read a post on a forum of another open source project that I absolutely love (Handbrake) and I think the post you can find here by one of their chief developers has some correlation to this current situation.
If you're too lazy to mosie over to the link...the gist of the post is that open source projects are just that. They are open sourced. That doesn't mean one has carte blanche to ask for help on this or that, to ask for this feature or that feature, to whine and complain, to moan and groan, or to trash somebody's work when it doesn't work like you want it to. It means that a usually small but dedicated group of individuals got together and tried to find a solution to a problem that they had. In the case of this post...it's about open source software...but I think you could say the same thing about ROM cooking here. There is enough information here that if you see or try something that doesn't work for you...try to fix it yourself (or as many have stated...search and see if it's already been fixed by someone). But in the end...I don't think you'll ever stamp out noob crap entirely. Think about it...just walk down the street or turn on your television or flip on your radio...how many idiots do you see or hear? Trust me...we are far outnumbered... But maybe...with a little help...we can at least edumacate em a little bit.

richy240 said:
If people are offended by Senior members when they ask a stupid question, then they can go somewhere else. HoFo is a great place for beginners. And since ROM flashing isn't a task fot for a beginner, there is no place here for those members.
Sure, I've asked stupid questions, been confused, etc., but I normally seek out a solution. Many n00bs (as they're commonly called) just ask without searching - and that's often obvious to those who are willing to read a 55-page thread.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the ROM kitchen. Period.
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Totally agree on that. Root of the problem seems to be low propensity to read given by large amounts of useless threads/posts, which makes it harder to search as well. By ignoring the reading/searching phase there is even more clutter being made.
The procedure how to get the info you need:
READ > SEARCH > THINK > POST
Sequence is important in that case!
Same applies to posts made entirely in language other than English > these are useless for vast majority of readers, please consider sending a PM when talking to your nationals.
'nuff said. Long live the XDA-Dev!

I think most of the gripes are about pointless posts eg, "whoohoo!", "cool", "downloading now" that just take up space and make getting to the valuable posts more difficult. Then there are the noob questions that are simple to answer but extremely annoying when repeating many many times. I am a noob to this forum and this phone but not about computers and porgramming. I have also made a donation to jasjamming and wish him the best. My proposal to end some of the madness is to seperate out the type of posts, which seem to be threefold 1. appreciation/useless banter 2. noob questions/simple questions 3. decent and high quality posts that make xda dev a great forum. So one thread about technical stuff that will contain good and useful info and another being the noob questions useless banter. Maybe split the noob questions and appreciation thread and forget about one or the other. This will make the mods life a lot easier and make reading the forum a lot more palatable and organise the threads in a meaningful way. Again sorry to see jasjamming go so soon after joining this forum. Hope he comes back at some stage.

KarhU said:
Totally agree on that. Root of the problem seems to be low propensity to read given by large amounts of useless threads/posts, which makes it harder to search as well. By ignoring the reading/searching phase there is even more clutter being made.
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Yeah. The problem is compounding itself. I think we should continue to offend the n00bs that way they go away and quit asking stupid questions.

Perhaps creating/moving this and other hardcore forums to private/access controlled area would help.
HoFo is part of the trouble but so is Google and search bots which read public forums. That brings a lot of new readers/noobs.
I've been on sites that have both public and private fora, and the Google/non approved members can't get at the private side which helps a lot.
Just so long as I'm a member of the private side.

Personally i think this forum would work better if there were more forums, say inside the hermes mobile 6 one there was one for each rom. Then if users were encouraged to post new topics for different faults the stupid pointless topics could just be ignored and end up pages back or even deleted while the usefull topics would stay near the top with only relavent content inside.
Anyway thats not for me to decide and just to note i hardly ever feel the need to post cos i've always found a fix for my problems by reading. It might take a few mins longer to find an answer than to start a post but it saves you looking stupid.

I fully support the idea of a subscription to the forums. I'm a member of another subscription-based forum, and it leads to more productive posts and queries, better quality of member base, and an intelligent quorum. That site is $9.95 for a lifetime membership, less a ban of course -- and I find that more than fair.
I don't post much either, I just soak up knowledge here. I try not to ask questions unless absolutely necessary, and instead reap the benefits from the great minds at work..

I love the forum and I think we all agree on this point. I am a moderator on several other PDA related sites. I know first hand how hard it can be to try and get the new folks to use the search function and read The Bold Print but I have found with my experience that using post counts to advance members to hidden forums only invites spam and useless posts. I can also say that wading through 80 sum pages of "thank you's" and "questions that where answered in the first post but I just looked for the link to download and didn't read" posts, is long and quite aggravating. Also trying to use the search function for things like finding a fix to an MMS problem is near to imposable. What I have seen here recently that I like is when something is released like a new WM6 build, there could be 2 treads started one for real questions (Advanced) and issues and one for the new folks to ask there new folk questions (Beginners). Not restricting access to the "Advance" tread, just the ability to post. I don't mind helping the new folks a little because I was new once. I can also say that I read information on this site for 4 days before I attempted to flash a new rom to my device. ( was scared to death ) and some of the questions the new folks asked, I also wanted the answer too. Lots of times some senior member would help them with a link or advice and this helped me also. I think if anything you should have to be a member here for say 3 or 4 days before you are allowed to post. Then maybe a week or two before you could post in the "Advanced" threads. This would hopefully send more new folks eager to find the answers to there questions, into the forums using the search and reading the comment of others a little more closely.
Just my thoughts
JD

I am new here and have refrained from posting until now. I have been using jj's WM VI 2.0 for a couple of days now (best so far) and must say that I find what is going on here to be quite annoying. My reason for being annoyed is because I have had my 8525 for several months now and have recently become quite bored with it, awaiting the release of new devices so I could have a new toy. Well jasjamming changed that with a couple rom updates.
All I am saying is for all of the noobs here including myself, "beggars cant be choosers" If the people that generously make these rom updates and advice available want us to do something in order to make this equitable for them, then we need to do as they wish without question. What is so difficult about this? Especially since it really doesn't seem like there asking much in return.
Just think about it, from what I see we all eagerly await each and every new release and now people are upset like me because we like having access to these updates and now we don't. I just think it is wasteful to disrupt such a wonderful arrangement.
Just my .02 but I really enjoy this site and would hate to see it change.
On a side note... I really enjoy this site so for all parties involved in creating/ maintaining this sight, many thanks!

Thanks button?
I will now throw my 2 cents in as well. I too have not posted much, but have managed to upgrade the ROM on my Hermes a few times without having to seek "professional help". I think we all appreciate the effrorts of the few that provide the rewards for the many. I used to be a SuperMod on a SonyEricsson modding site (before I found the Windows Mobile joy).
I have seen a "Thanks Button" used quite effectively - I think it is in the newer releases of vBulletin. It cuts a lot of the crap. Also, I would support a "no post for 10 days" and "read only, except by invitation" threads.
If you can express gratitude simply, have to read and learn for 10 days (and you KNOW they won't wait to try the flash) and get to read what the Seniors and Mods are saying and download the fruits of their labors, but cannot interfere, I think that would raise the quality of the experience for everyone. Sorry I went so long - I love XDA and want to see it continue to dominate.
PS: It is funny to see someone with the nick "poopmongrel" lamenting the low quality of the forum participants - ;-) That isn't meant to be mean, just funny!

richy240 said:
Yeah. The problem is compounding itself. I think we should continue to offend the n00bs that way they go away and quit asking stupid questions.
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Does that really work? Or do the n00bs just argue back? It seems recently they will just start arguing that "I did search, you *expletive*" or something like that.
If there were a way to rate individual posts like Digg and Slashdot, then you could set a ratings threshold (like view all rated > -1) and not even see the n00b posts that other people flagged unless you specifically click to expand the hidden post.

chenga said:
Does that really work? Or do the n00bs just argue back? It seems recently they will just start arguing that "I did search, you *expletive*" or something like that.
If there were a way to rate individual posts like Digg and Slashdot, then you could set a ratings threshold (like view all rated > -1) and not even see the n00b posts that other people flagged unless you specifically click to expand the hidden post.
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I don't know... Probably not. I was really just talking out of my ass. But when someone answers like that, they obviously shouldn't expect an accurate answer. If someone said that to me after answering a question, I wouldn't give them the time of day.

Wasn't everybody a n00b at one time?
It would be a shame to 'close the forum down' to noobs. There's a first for everything. And -yes!- noobs can ask stupid questions, but you could just ignore them. I've read some good suggestions reading the threads complaining about the newbies on this forum. ("thank you button", "noob area" and "a timeslot between downloading/registering" eg.)
Without this forum I'm pretty sure my Hermes would still run on WM5 since there's no real alternative to this forum. The senior members and chefs provide information (at least I) could not find anywhere else. Like many junior members (I guess) I spend the most time reading and not posting. Reading and learning. So getting 'senior' by just posting will not improve the forum quality.
To bad some (a) chef(s) are just so fed up they don't share their work anymore, but I can understand. People should be more gratefull for their hard work. Especially if you do not have the skills to cook a rom yourself!

I think the problem is more than just asking questions, even basic ones. It is the attitude of some users who seem to expect the contributors of the ROMs to support them. As a software developer myself, I've experienced many such types who think that just because they downloaded your software for free, they are entitled to your support. I believe it is this sort of "stupidity" and arrogance that really gets the goat of those who work hard to contribute something.
In this case, the fault isn't merely one of tolerance, it is one of attitude. If a guy comes in and gets free stuff from you, and then turns back and demand you fix their machine, while bad-mouthing you - surely you can see how this will make the whole enterprise un-worthwhile for the contributor. Not only are they not getting any tangible remuneration for their work, they are now having to put up with such arrogance. Now, who in their right mind would want to continue contributing in a community that is unappreciative (though arguably there will always be those who are appreciative).
The key then is to keep the unappreciative out until they learn some respect and appreciation. When they learn that what they're getting is not a right but a privilege, out of the goodwill of the contributors. If they are not happy, they can go elsewhere and not use the product. If they're sincere, then they should make the effort to learn. Regardless of the complaints of how hard it is to use the search function (how hard can it be??). In this case the onus is NOT on the contributors but on the end-user.
I see this kind of scenario happening:-
1. Newbie hears about WM6 and thinks its so cool.
2. Pesters friend for link and ends up here.
3. Get excited at the level of activity and prospect of getting something for free.
4. Get frustrated because they don't know where to start.
5. Post basic questions about which is the best ROM etc.
6. Decides to go with the "best" ROM.
7. Bricks the machine or finds a bug or loses some features.
8. Get frustrated and angry and vents at the ROM chefs (or Olipro.
9. Tries to read site for the first time but too lazy to work through the posts (it does take time but that is expected.)
10. Pester others to help them unbrick their machine.
11. Unbricks machine and starts again with another ROM variant.
12. Cycle repeats itself.
I'm not saying that all newbies are like this. Many lurkers actually read through all the related posts. The problem we're facing has to do with those who want the benefits without having to spend the time reading and researching and learning some general knowledge about the ROM flashing process. To make things worse, these same types usually have attitudes of self-righteous indignation which makes them a pain to tolerate. This is the kind of person you want to keep out of the community. IMO.
Daniel

swtaltima said:
I am new here and have refrained from posting until now. I have been using jj's WM VI 2.0 for a couple of days now (best so far) and must say that I find what is going on here to be quite annoying. My reason for being annoyed is because I have had my 8525 for several months now and have recently become quite bored with it, awaiting the release of new devices so I could have a new toy. Well jasjamming changed that with a couple rom updates.
All I am saying is for all of the noobs here including myself, "beggars cant be choosers" If the people that generously make these rom updates and advice available want us to do something in order to make this equitable for them, then we need to do as they wish without question. What is so difficult about this? Especially since it really doesn't seem like there asking much in return.
Just think about it, from what I see we all eagerly await each and every new release and now people are upset like me because we like having access to these updates and now we don't. I just think it is wasteful to disrupt such a wonderful arrangement.
Just my .02 but I really enjoy this site and would hate to see it change.
On a side note... I really enjoy this site so for all parties involved in creating/ maintaining this sight, many thanks!
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I have to agree here. What ticks me off is the fact that alot of people here come in, flash a ROM without reading or researching then DEMAND a solution...not once...not twice...but sometimes three and four times in a short time span.
I have no right to DEMAND someone to fix something that either (1) I caused; (2) I didn't read enough to see that it was a known issue and flashed anyway; (3) a known issue with an open source software on a DEVELOPER's sight with I am NOT a developer.
What I see the issue to be is ingratitude, sense of entitlement and tender emotions. If you're feelings are going to get hurt then you shouldn't post. The developers here don't owe anybody here a thing. Plain and simple.
Politically correct? No. Do I care? No.
Jim

I Love Xda-developers.com!
Spread The Peace!

Suggestion for the next Black Rom Thread

[Introduction] As I bought a Tytn in December 2006 I started to visit these forums since then. Although I’m used to computers and programming since at about 1982 I had to learn a lot about flashing, security arrangements before flashing and so on. So I tried to read all the other postings and the wiki. After some weeks I flashed the first Rom, everything went well until now. Then – some weeks ago – Jasjamming was “a bit angry” about all the postings in the Black2 thread. First I couldn’t reproduce his anger but after some days of absence from the forums I noticed that’s its more or less impossible to read some hundred postings with the same topic in a thread. Now JJ again requested more discipline:
jasjamming said:
Therefore a note to Noobs: stop flooding with jargon because you will only be hurting yourself and other members of this forum. Also remember that these ROMS are provided to you by people that do them for fun, we are not your Telco Operator, we dont provide service to you if your 3G connection or access point connections have been erased when flashing. You flash at your own risk, if something goes wrong its on your head. Also remember that the amount of information you get on this forum from other member far exceed the support you will get from your Telco. Therefore dont deman anything and dont expect anything, if someone helps you be grateful.
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This time he did it in a very very polite way and again he is right. I know that I did nothing special for the community besides answering some easy questions and I’m not sure if I’m entitled to make suggestions. Anyway: What about different threads for the next Rom? One as already available for “nontech matters” and “thanks for the great rom JJ” postings, one more for questions like “provider gprs/mms settings” and one for technical feedbacks to this rom to make it easier for the developers to eliminate mistakes and to improve their work.
Just my 2 cents but maybe it works to give better feedback to all the guys who are working hard in their spare time to give us all a nearly perfect working phone.
BTW: I’ve sworn to myself not to answer to statements like this
I'm not some teenage snot noob, I'm a 37 year old professional, running a company... I have better & more important things to do with my life than trawl through pages & pages of threads. .
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but I can not resist, sorry for that . In my opinion its irrelevant who somebody is and what he is doing in his private life and/or his job. If somebody is seeking for advice in a forum like this and he has not time enough to read all the other posts and the wiki/guides then apparently he found the wrong place for asking questions. I for myself wasn’t very impressed that a gentleman who is running a company is posting in this forum (but I would have been impressed if he would have had some useful hints for all). Thanks to wpbear for not answering this posting.
Conclusion: I’m very grateful to all the Romcookers for providing us improved Roms and to everybody who is giving advices, writing guides and so on. Thanks to everybody and keep it up.

Black
I bought the Hermes with great expectation and was disappointed soon with the ROM that came with it. If this site doesn't exist, I would probably had change to the Nokia N95 or something else.
I had flashed the South African ROM first and got it working. Black 2.0 was the only cooked ROM I've flashed. I had a few trouble when loaded tons of software in the beginning. I learned my lessons and hard reset with a little discipline. Black 2.0 has met my need. I run a company myself and I am thankful for those went the extra mile to help others out, something I wish more people can learn from.
I am grateful for JJ and the other chef who had made my device productive which otherwise would have been a total waste.
So, THANK YOU TO THE CHEFS.

if it wasnt for these guys i would still be using wm5 - and italy is usually the last country getting any updates...
LVSW and black are both great roms, i like switching from one to another to see their improvements
i read for hours and check this forum almost daily... i wish i had some knowledge to share but for now i can only learn from the big chefs
keep up to good job guys

@Gerals_S
I have to back you on this. Well said! I will resist the temptation to add more to your statement...

I suggested something similar in this previous thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=306514
however shogun mark says that the admins have no intention of changing the current system and closed the thread.. Am sure they will do likewise to this one...

You suggested sub-forums and this would change nothing. Everybody would post again in one thread and the thread would explode like the others before. I suggested to make 3 threads, for example:
.) Black3,5 - non tech comments
Here everybody can post things like "JJ u r great"
.) Black3,5 - Settings & Programs Issues
Everything about 3rd party software not running, provider settings....
.) Black3,5 - Hardcore Tech Thread
For all the real tech issues and solutions
So JJ could see very clear whether a new Rom is running without issues or not and if he's in a bad mood he could have a look to all the "you are the man" postings in a different thread.

I know the mods don't want to spend their days doing so, but deleting useless comments (I've had a few, myself), wrong thread questions, and literally the same questions asked over and over, and these threads wouldn't be nearly as long. I'm not suggesting mods spend their days doing so, but as they read the threads for their own use and they see someone with 1 post asking where the Cingy version of 3.01 is, I think it should be removed. Just the egregiously stupid questions. How about anything related to BT problems in the pimping thread past the first 3x it was asked.
Also, I read complaints by the senior members that there are too many useless posts, but there are numerous 'senior members' that immediately post:
"Thanks, JJ. Downloading now.", and JJ, wowwwww, you are a god. Will report back with issues", for the first several pages of EVERY new ROM thread that is supposed to be limited to tech issues. For someone who likes to lurk and learn more than they post, this can be infuriating, especially when further back in the thread, those same people start tossing fireballs at the silly posters.
By now, the cooks know very well that what they do is invaluable, and sending them $$ for their effort is a good way to acknowledge it. Maybe if the cooks would acknowledge receipt of donations with a PM (JJ, you listening? I know my donation for Black 2.5 a few weeks ago was only enough to buy a few drinks, but a ty PM would have been nice), people wouldn't feel the need to throw themselves at the feet of these cooks with every new release, update, or utterance.
I think 2.5 spoiled people because it had every flavor for everyone, and people could install it without even reading the wiki. While Mr. Vanx upgrade guides are so useful, they are a shortcut for putting in the time to learn. I think that's why we are seeing so many people upgrading to the latest and greatest (3.0.0, 3.0.1) who have absolutely no business doing so, and then complaining that things don't work flawlessly on beta versions we download from this board.
For the noobs reading this, I for one do not download a new ROM until it has been vetted for a few weeks by the hardcore flashers, AND I stay current with the new rom thread to make sure issues people are having will not be deal breakers for me if they occur. If you are new to this board, and not a developer, read, listen, and LEARN.
Sorry for the long message, but it's getting harder to read all the threads on here. I'm trying, but if I fall behind for a day, it can be brutal to 'catch up'.
ALSO: I just was on HOFO - I go there from time to time and I just noticed many 'senior' posters there are pointing noobs to XDA. If you do this, you are pointing people without a clue to this board, many of whom will start posting silly beginner questions.

On the note of donations, my PM inbox is more cluttered than the threads, therefore I have given up most of the time to read my inbox. But rest assured that your donations are appreciated as I keep developing the ROMS for you guys. If i didnt appreciate your donations I would have stopped releasing ROMS at Blac 2.0.
Therefore dont take offense if i dont PM you back as my time is pretty much being consumed by reading 1000+ posts in a thread trying to sort out what the issues are.
I will give you an example of my PM inbox (which has at the moment around 980 messages in there - I cleaned it last week without reading any of them) - I have hundres of posts entitled "cingular version" "tmobile version" "3g not working" "where is vjtools" "will this work on a wizard"...
Hence i gave up.
Like i said, donations are appreciated and my appreciation is shown in further releases and my free time that i sacrifice to help this community with my ROMS to help your hermes be what it is supposed to be (my mrs is making me sleep on the sofa )
Now, on the issue of bloated threads, Black 3.5 will most likely no be released here but on a forum that I moderate and membership is tight hence I and others can control noob posts with attitude. In addition, to download the ROM, you must become a member. Hopefully I will have more control over the situation. This forum I speak of has 3 strict rules and one of them is:
1. If you post stupid noob questions or responses - you will be banned immediately without warning.
As per my professional job, you sometimes have to hit people really hard so they learn their lesson, warnings just aint enough. So sit tight, Black 3.5 is currently being developed with new drivers and some other tweaks, but will most likely not be hosted here, hence xda-developers.com has the right to delete any threads started by members here as they will not be hosting my new BLACK ROM.
Cheers,
JJ
mbn said:
I know the mods don't want to spend their days doing so, but deleting useless comments (I've had a few, myself), wrong thread questions, and literally the same questions asked over and over, and these threads wouldn't be nearly as long. I'm not suggesting mods spend their days doing so, but as they read the threads for their own use and they see someone with 1 post asking where the Cingy version of 3.01 is, I think it should be removed. Just the egregiously stupid questions. How about anything related to BT problems in the pimping thread past the first 3x it was asked.
Also, I read complaints by the senior members that there are too many useless posts, but there are numerous 'senior members' that immediately post:
"Thanks, JJ. Downloading now.", and JJ, wowwwww, you are a god. Will report back with issues", for the first several pages of EVERY new ROM thread that is supposed to be limited to tech issues. For someone who likes to lurk and learn more than they post, this can be infuriating, especially when further back in the thread, those same people start tossing fireballs at the silly posters.
By now, the cooks know very well that what they do is invaluable, and sending them $$ for their effort is a good way to acknowledge it. Maybe if the cooks would acknowledge receipt of donations with a PM (JJ, you listening? I know my donation for Black 2.5 a few weeks ago was only enough to buy a few drinks, but a ty PM would have been nice), people wouldn't feel the need to throw themselves at the feet of these cooks with every new release, update, or utterance.
I think 2.5 spoiled people because it had every flavor for everyone, and people could install it without even reading the wiki. While Mr. Vanx upgrade guides are so useful, they are a shortcut for putting in the time to learn. I think that's why we are seeing so many people upgrading to the latest and greatest (3.0.0, 3.0.1) who have absolutely no business doing so, and then complaining that things don't work flawlessly on beta versions we download from this board.
For the noobs reading this, I for one do not download a new ROM until it has been vetted for a few weeks by the hardcore flashers, AND I stay current with the new rom thread to make sure issues people are having will not be deal breakers for me if they occur. If you are new to this board, and not a developer, read, listen, and LEARN.
Sorry for the long message, but it's getting harder to read all the threads on here. I'm trying, but if I fall behind for a day, it can be brutal to 'catch up'.
ALSO: I just was on HOFO - I go there from time to time and I just noticed many 'senior' posters there are pointing noobs to XDA. If you do this, you are pointing people without a clue to this board, many of whom will start posting silly beginner questions.
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Question...
What is a noob???

jj my only hope is that you will find it in your heart to let me be a part of black 3.5 if u have time and look at my posts ull see they are usefull and not noobish. i read your threads from top to bottom and know how to search. pm me if u let me. back on topic. thank you for all your roms and i look forward to the next. i been with black since 2.0 and am proud. i read and make the rom perfect. loving 3.0.1 love your roms so much that im staying at 3.0.1 and have my bluetooth off and headset sitting on the desk bc of the bluetooth problems and aint complainging bc ur current is just as fast and stable as you said.

jasjamming said:
On the note of donations, my PM inbox is more cluttered than the threads, therefore I have given up most of the time to read my inbox. But rest assured that your donations are appreciated as I keep developing the ROMS for you guys. If i didnt appreciate your donations I would have stopped releasing ROMS at Blac 2.0.
Therefore dont take offense if i dont PM you back as my time is pretty much being consumed by reading 1000+ posts in a thread trying to sort out what the issues are.
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JJ - Thanks for the response. I like your idea of a limited release and restricted access. Given the increasing hysteria each of your releases has generated, and the growing number of people that have no clue that are flashing, I think that's the right idea.
I just sent you a PM. Please read it .

My 2c..
Personally I think it helps to have "it works great" and "has problem with xyz" in the same discussion as you can get a feel for how many people find a tool/app/rom release stable/problematic.
"Thanks, will download now" seems more appropriate as a PM between people who at least vaguely know each other, or have exchanged posts regularly.

In regard to your new forum, JJ you may like to do a breakdown of individual modules. IE: a thread with your new build then sub folders under that with BT, wireless, phone, etc.
I've been using Groove (www.groove.com) before it was purchased by MS for our techs on the road with new software releases and the way one can setup workspaces has really saved time. We create a software workspace, then sub folders under that workspace for every module and the filtering system works well IF and only IF people put something relevant in the title.
The techs on the Groove space are severerly reprimanded if they reply to posts with useless or trivial info. My research (physically counting in most cases) has shown that more threads are bloated by people throwing retorts back at less than satisfactory posters, hence they are treated more harshly.
There has not been one of our tech or development team who has not at some stage posted a complete dickheaded post.
We have found that if the OP doesn't get a reply to their less than adequate post they tend to realize why after a short time and start to read our wiki a little more thoroughly.
I've read all of that 96 odd pages of the build 3.xx Black to see if it would fit with my way of doing things on the Hermes. It looks like I won't be seeing another cut of it, though.
JJ, you have a hell of a lot more patience than me, mate. I would have simply pulled the ROM quicker than a bargirl can grab you a beer in Phuket.
Sure everyone like to receive kudos, but reading that arselicking first couple of pages of the Black 3.xx thread was like listening to my 13 year old neice talking with her friends...
How about some of you "senior" members start pulling your heads in and acting like senior members. Just ignore the stupid bloody posts. You don't have to a freaking rocket scientist to realize that every post you reply to is bloating the thread more.
Now I feel like a ****ing goose cos I've just bloated this one.
cheers,

Keeping it simple.
JJ and all the other cooks out there,
1st off, thank you for all your hard work. So far I have enjoyed playing with 5 different ROMs due to your generosity. Black 3.0 rocks and I like that I can add the apps that I want without all the extras.
As a noob myself, I always thought that there were no stupid questions... until I started reading the forums. I am amazed at how bloated the forums are with "Downloading now..." and "You rock". I wonder if there are any moderators even reading anymore. Can a moderator zap a poster with an automatic 1 week no posting “time-out”? If so, I might volunteer to mod ;->
So here is my $0.03 (inflation is hell) worth of suggestion on top of the ones being tossed in the mix. In your initial posting to announce your next great act of kindness and generosity, just include a link to the technical issues forum post for Black 3.5... You don’t really have to hide it… Just don’t make it too obvious.
All the goobers will spin their wheels going "Wow..." and "Thanks, downloading now..." in the first forum which will attract the dumb noobs who ask or demand for the easy answers. Those that read will know where to go for real issues and input. Kind of like a “too friken lazy to read when I can just type” filter.
Just a thought and since this forum is for “Suggestion for the next Black Rom Thread” I figure it’s safe to post this one…
Thanks again for all your work, I am amazed at what you accomplish.

gfunkmelody said:
What is a noob???
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A new WM6 ROM thats better than Bill Gates' own. Cooked just for you.

gfunkmelody said:
What is a noob???
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Anyone else see any irony here? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
JJ, props on the tightly restricted forum idea - just please leave it open for people to read. Some people actually do read.

I fully understand why JJ is doing what he is with the next release i just think it a shame that the community has to fragment to survive . It will make the dissemination of knowledge that more difficult and on a personal level make life a tad more complicated having to check multiple sites rather that just multiple forums in one site.
But keep up the good work all i for one am so happy your all here my friend bought an HP 6815 and hes stuck on wm5.
Laters
Matt

Let people use your hard work
Hi JJ,
I'm using black from first version on tytn, i tried a lot of others rom before, but only black can give me more satisfaction and i feel more stable.I'm not using post any question, just because everything working well, or because i already find the answer on the forum.Anyway you must know that a lot of people maybe use your roms but as no time to test a lot so as no reason to give you a lot of feedback.i just think that people demonstrate your hard work is very appreciated.
Anyway, maybe you cook these roms for yourself but i think any person who use it give you more satisfaction. Of course a work regarding so many persons will produde massive reactions and a lot of posts, but without some of them your roms not so good.
So let people at least download.
Your work help the community.
Any work as a boring part, in your case a lot of posts.

It's Just Not Fun Anymore!!!

Ok, there is something that I want to say.
I know I'm not making myself popular with this post, but I wasn't very happy lately with the comments or the reaction from some fellow Xda-Dev members lately...
This should be a community, where we learn and help each other.
Where we can share knowledge and cool roms (like Toms...) or apps (like Tene's...) etc...
But lately I feel like there are less real Xda-Dev members which appreciate the work and effort, those wizards out there make for us.
Only peoply always complaining about "the need of BETTER beta-testers", is it because these people couldn't test it before a release and are jalous??? Or people complaining about some bugs, and keep asking 100000... times about why there is this bug, how to fix it, or why don't you fix it?? etc... well, let me tell you a BUGFREE rom most likely wouldn't excist... and if you can do it better, why don't you put your TIME and EFFORT in it and make a fix for it... or better make a Rom and share it with us... let's see if you can make a bugfree cool rom??!!
Or people asking 100000... times when will there be a German version of this rom or a Dutch rom or etc... Or why put these apps in a specific rom? etc...
I'm just wondering, do all these people always send 100000... mails to HTC or Microsoft to ask them, why a specific app is in a rom? Why there are these bugs, why this, why that???
I'm just saying why don't we all just show some respect and appreciation to those wizards. To those whom sacrafise a lot of time and work into a project and share it to us for free. Off course I understand, the feedback we all give to these wizards will maybe help them to create a better version or help them make a fix for a bug. But there is some difference between giving feedback and just being a child and complaining ...
I opened this thread, because I feel sorry for Tom (and other wizards)... if you see the post on threads from his roms... more than half is just crap... is just people asking the same thing over and over again... I'm not sure about Tom, but I know I would get it on my nerves when I made something for a community and this would be the reaction... I would ask myself, if it's still worth it to invest so much time into something for all those people...
I used to looking forward to be able to logon on XDA Dev... but lately, I notice that even I got the time for it, I just don't feel like to logon... cause most likely I will missed a page or 2 or 3... but I'm sure I wouldn't miss any potential information...
This post is dedicated to all those Wizards out there... and I'm sorry... I'm sorry there are a lot off people just don't know how to show some respect to you... I hope I still can learn from you, and to use the cool apps and roms from you...
But I must admit, even I'm doubting, will I still comming back to this forum... or should I just leave it???
Just my 2 cents...

100 % agree with you....
Cheers!

you are talking right out of my heart.
i personally tend to ignore all those "but it has a bug!!11!!1" or "i donated few euros now i WANT that feature and i want it NOW" folks. but you are right: it starts to kill the core of the community.

lets all be unpopular together......
...I agree with everything you say cg...pointing out a problem and making the dev aware is one thing - complaining is another completely.
The amount of posts on this website pushing Tom Codon to release his 4.1 rom was stupid...when its ready its ready. If you don't want to wait - install a factory rom and stop whining.
I also have no problem (we've all done it) in asking a question because you can't find an answer...the main point being "if you can't find an answer" - a lot of people tend not to search and fill the forums with duplicate posts.
So...in conclusion....i may not be a regular poster, but I really enjoy reading almost every post on this site - but when you we are in a position when a poster such as coolgadget is thinking of leaving - we need to pay attention...
imagine what would happen in Tom decided to leave - or any of the other cookers - maybe thats what some of the people on here need before they realise what these guys do.
Rant over

I think your post will make you very popular and make you many friend.

I am on your side - only someone with your reputation is able to say that!!
Thank you my friend.
We all have to organize and discipline us in order to get a forum with easy readable informations which helps the community.
Not only consuming and defining requirements is here the right way!!!
Nobody does this in relation to HTC or Microsoft - and Tom and all the other devs work very hard (somtetimes day and night) - they should have the change to concentrate on cooking good roms - not discussing the same problems again and again.

Bottlm Line!
That my Friend is the bottom Line.
I always come on here with intentions of helping out anyone I can. I have been testing with Cool Gadget for a while; he and I have the same feelings here. I am literally drained when it comes to trying to read through the release posts.
I lose my confidence in this community when I read some of the statements, complaints and out right rude comments left by some users.
I appreciate every ones interest, and inpatients for the next release, I don’t condone it at all, but I do get it. You can be anyone you want to be on the internet, some choose to be who they really are, while some cant help but to be that person...
In short, Cool has this right on, I would repost it and change the name just to be the first to say it.
Please people, show a little respect and integrity, it really goes a long way

Thanks Coolgadget for posting this.
Even the original rom of HTC has bug's
Can we make this post sticky?
Ps. it's my 100 post

RE: Coolgadget
True, but might some people say this and that cus they would like to help work of the creator, and not cus they want to blame his work. Have you ever thought about that? And maybe these forums are for not only but for this reason as well, to let the developers help each other, let the users help each other, let the developers help the users and MAYBE vica verse.
Maybe I am wrong.
Regards,
Miklos

biou said:
I think your post will make you very popular and make you many friend.
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i also agree, it's not really fine to search in a thread with about 100pages and the most asked question is really "when do you make german rom", "and found this bug", etc it's really true. It's not comfortable to find real interestening threads. And such statements are totally useless for everybody. I like your point of view!

moderators can edit complains & ****ty comment away.
i was a moderator for a long time on a board, we made some rules.
There rules where simple, follow them or get a warning, still not listening, they got banned.
the normal respected members will always follow the rules.
the ones that are *****ing, making lame & dumb comments will eventually make place for the people that DO want to contribute in a healthy way
look at some of the new members their lame posts....
they are just joining to complain, say this is bad, this isn't good... bladiebladiebla...not good for the health of a community imo
serious, they need to give all the guys that are working on things like this in their spare time some credit.
Complaining & whining..... for stuff that is free....what a bunch of assholes

Good post man
I agree, but I guess its not easy for all newcomers (me included) to fully understand how much work is beeing put into cooking roms, hacking progz to make them better, and so on.
Havent we all been a nOOb? lol, im still one, but I feel like im climbing upwards to a higher plain of existence ( ) the more I read on this forums.
I didnt fully understand (do I yet?) before starting to cook for myself, even though I am provided by tools like the HyperCore kitchen by anichillus, I can see that its still damn much to learn, and that it takes alot of time. Cant even imagine how much hours the pros in here has used, and for free. Amazing..
Maybe we should start a "Guide how to..." section on frontpage, making a part called TouchFlo, one called dialer, one called commManager and so on.
Posting sollutions found in.ex on how to install the touch dialer on a fresh official rom and so on.
And why not let that be readable for everyone, but posting restricted to senior members?
There it could be posted answers for all the common questions ppl would have.
If that could be done, im sure the sections would be easier to scroll through, not having to read 100000 posts asking whythisandwhythathowtopleasethx.....
I dont think the forums will ever get rid of the newcomers asking alot of questions, over and over again. Like me Sending PMs to the wizards, asking questions (that im stupid enough to belive that 1000 others have not asked them about before) about how to....and so on
cheers masters
And Coolgadget, dont leave, we need you here.

itje said:
Good post man
I agree, but I guess its not easy for all newcomers (me included) to fully understand how much work is beeing put into cooking roms, hacking progz to make them better, and so on.
Havent we all been a nOOb? lol, im still one, but I feel like im climbing upwards to a higher plain of existence ( ) the more I read on this forums.
I didnt fully understand (do I yet?) before starting to cook for myself, even though I am provided by tools like the HyperCore kitchen by anichillus, I can see that its still damn much to learn, and that it takes alot of time. Cant even imagine how much hours the pros in here has used, and for free. Amazing..
Maybe we should start a "Guide how to..." section on frontpage, making a part called TouchFlo, one called dialer, one called commManager and so on.
Posting sollutions found in.ex on how to install the touch dialer on a fresh official rom and so on.
And why not let that be readable for everyone, but posting restricted to senior members?
There it could be posted answers for all the common questions ppl would have.
If that could be done, im sure the sections would be easier to scroll through, not having to read 100000 posts asking whythisandwhythathowtopleasethx.....
I dont think the forums will ever get rid of the newcomers asking alot of questions, over and over again. Like me Sending PMs to the wizards, asking questions (that im stupid enough to belive that 1000 others have not asked them about before) about how to....and so on
cheers masters
And Coolgadget, dont leave, we need you here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes i can follow you but there is a difference between the guys trying to initiate active (proactive) communication and that one which are only consuming!

coolgadget and chandlercjh
I'm in total agreement with you both in all your comments above. If people would only show some patience here especially with Tom and the work he is doing at this great forum... its would be a very sad day if he or any of the other senior members decided to leave. I don't make many posts on here but I am a regular reader and absolutely love the site. I just hope that more people show respect and an ability to use the search function... and i dread the nonsense we will have to read when we near v4.2 of Tom's great ROM.

Agreed fully
Hello Friend;
I completely agree with you.Its not fair that people who make ROM's and other apps are always crucified or pressured.Many time the same questiona are answered previously.But no one wants to read it,it seems.But another thing to be high lighted is that many people can't speak English well.This some time lead to messages which seems arrogant.But I have to agree the message u posted(I saw it before in forum) is the result of a gigantic ego and big mouth.He doesn't even pay anything for the ROM(forgetting a few bucks of Donations) and daring to complain like this.As u say such people can make their own ROM's and make it perfect and don't stop complaining.
And please remember that there are much more people here who are your fans and looks up to you.So please don't be bothered and continue your good work.
Regards and have a nice day.

My alplogies for my following comment as I am quite new here in the forum as well.
I completely agree with these statements here. It looks very childish (to put it in polite words) what many of the members write in their posts when they cry for tthe ROM in another language (you didn't learn english in school??).
Tom is doing a great job and he is ALWAYS polite. Try to behave in the same way!!!
For the beta-tester critics, I just like to mention that the SW from very big companies is also far away from being bug-less.
To mention I sent 10 bucks please provide me with this or that is ***
Come on, go in a restaurant and buy a coffe. What do you get for this money.
My impression is, Tom is doing this because he likes to do it, to share it and to contribute to a comunity. I call this respect. So, show him your respect as well.
Donate to show your respect to him and not because you want something.
my 2 cents in R-E-S-P-E-C-T,
g-fall

Try to imagine XDA WITHOUT Tom
Hi there,
What my dear personal friend Coolgadget apparently forgot to mention is that in a recent conversation we had with Tom -after having read some REALLY NASTY & RUDE posts- we urged him to leave and start using his valuable time to do better things rather than "attempting" to please the varied XDA crowd.
We also tried to persuade him to charge a minimum fee for each download.
In a recent post (some of you might even remember that) I have publicly suggested Tom to go to the beach instead of "wasting" his time following useless remarks of some outstandingly tactless XDA forum members.
All this TO NO AVAIL... Tom is a big-hearted and professional young man who LOVES EVERYBODY, kind and mean alike, generous and stingy alike!
Tom insisted and decided to continue HELPING EVERYONE 4 FREE... Isn't that magnificent?!?
Coolgadget (just like myself) gained among certain "noble" XDA groups a fair degree of unpopularity because of his straightforward writing style, because his posts are always right to the point and MOSTLY because he knows what kind of pain Tom has to "digest" when some people POST FASTER THAN THEY CAN THINK.
Please remember that this forum will never be the same if people like Tom or Coolgadget will decide to leave!!!
In the "Donations to Tom Codon" thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1471616&posted=1#post1471616) I have just posted how important nice and encouraging words are to Tom... I would almost dare to define them just as valuable as generous financial donations.
I thank you all once more for the understanding and support shown so far (and OBVIOULSY for the one you will keep on showing ) and I wish you a great day.
SiperX

I completely agree with the comments made in this post and I apologise for not having any input myself. Tom does indeed make some great roms that make the XDA Orbit/P3300, or whatever you want to call it, a far more useable piece of technology. I am surprised that the likes of O2, T-Mobile or HTC haven't jumped at the chance to showcase how enthusiasts are developing and pushing the boundaries with their technology.
I do think that one of the problems is language and that some people, whose first language is not English, may come across as quite rude when they perhaps don't mean to. This does not excuse peoples inability to use the search function or the ones that are blatantly rude and I would suggest that the mods here clamp down and ruthlessly delete both the rude posts and those that ask the same questions time and time again. Perhaps a sticky in the most common languages on how to use the search function might go some way to highlighting the problem and how it is ruining the forum.
I am not saying that there are not faults with the roms and that Tom does not require feedback; all I am saying is that those that can not offer useful input, who are rude or constantly demand things are not actively allowed to ruin threads.
My life with the Orbit would be far less interesting without Tom's work.
Many thanks and I will donating come payday.

What my dear personal friend Coolgadget apparently forgot to mention is that in a recent conversation we had with Tom -after having read some REALLY NASTY & RUDE posts- we urged him to leave and start using his valuable time to do better things rather than "attempting" to please the varied XDA crowd.We also tried to persuade him to charge a minimum fee for each download.
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Click to collapse
hi SiperX and Coolgadget I can only request you to ignore those NASTY & RUDE comments as there are always some ants in heaven.Either we can put negative points for such whiners after a level they will be banned or just ignore it.I kindly request you not to be affected by these remarks by some IDIOTS who think they can have their way.
Coolgadget (just like myself) gained among certain "noble" XDA groups a fair degree of unpopularity because of his straightforward writing style, because his posts are always right to the point and MOSTLY because he knows what kind of pain Tom has to "digest" when some people POST FASTER THAN THEY CAN THINK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For this I consider you and others who male this forum a big contribution.But please remember there are many who admire you too.I admire Tom and his works.Not just him the forum itself and many volunteers who make apps in their free time and distribute it freely.
Please remember that this forum will never be the same if people like Tom or Coolgadget will decide to leave!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope that day never comes.Is there anything we can do to help you?

FYI
this matter seems resolved

Request: Moderators for Smartphones > Excalibur

In order to have a better forum, many of the regulars would like to have some moderator attention. There are topics that are difficult to navigate, and a constant repetition of the same questions from new users.
The Excalibur Forum is a fairly active place, with some interesting original development, but it is even difficult for the senior-member types to find the resources, details and response to threads that they are looking for. Many of us have begun using our signatures as bookmarks to post because it is the only method of sharing common answers efficiently available to us.
There are several volunteers within the Excalibur regulars that are willing to take on the responsibility, and have proven themselves to be patient, good communicators and friendly many times over. Here is a discussion of the problem there: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=390733 Please let us know if this is feasible.
Thank you Admin(s).

We really need some Moderators on the Excalibur Forum it will help get all the information better placed, there is a lot of activity on the forum so we get the same information repeat it time after time from different people and it just makes it harder for the noobs on the forum to find out a quick solutions for their issues.
Hope we could get some help with this Admins.

I agree with the request. It would really make the Smartphones > Excalibur forum a lot better.

I'm behind you guys on this
It is getting out of hand in the Excalibur forums.

I completely agree with this. It wouldn't even take alot of work to make this forum more 'user friendly'. I feel somebody who uses the forum just needs to be able to creat a thread, pin it to the top so it doesn't get lost and be the only person that can post in that section. Therefore they would be able to post questions and answers themselves for the topics that keep coming up (eg. key mapping, sms/mms settings... the list goes on)
Lets make this happen people are not willing to use the search button and look around so lets make it as easy as possible to get the answers they need without reposting a question

I fully agree, senior members who contribute to the excalibur forum....( not senior members who don't...you know who you are) that also have a vast knowledge of modding and general issues are the ones i'd like to see....
Myself, Mikey1022, Profezza, OrganicM, Kavana, Rickwyatt, Rip Syntaxx are a few i could think of that would be great at being a moderator

Hmmm any admins around ?

+1
this forum need moderator...

I would be willing to moderate. I'm on there 24 x 7 almost and have grown quite familiar with the Excalibur and its operating system

Any word on this yet guys ? I'm itching to suggest a few sticky threads in the Excalibur forum.

mikechannon said:
Noticed the plea for a Moderator.
Let's have a couple of names for good candidates who would be willing to do it and we'll see what can be done.
Mike
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I nominate mikechannon

Me too! We just need *someone* to cleanup and add some badly needed stickys!!

I'm waiting on this too. I can't wait to go in "Cleanup & Organization" mode on Xda. I have enough information that I would like to compile so it's easy for everyone to use. Me & Organic are always on xda. There's so many redundant threads and so much trash that needs to be cleaned up and put in order so life is easier. Everyday there's new thread which have already been answered so many times. Using stickies and cleaning the excalibur thread will honestly make it so much easier on noobs as well as everybody else. Let us know as we're eager to get this going as soon as possible.

We haven't forgotten about you. In fact it's in "committee" for discussion as we speak.
In the meantime, feel free to build the Wiki and create useful threads that consolidate information. Once this is done you can easily PM existing Mods and request a Sticky. In fact if you PM me directly I'll make my best efforts to get to it ASAP but please allow that it might take a few hours for me to respond/react to requests.

Thank you for a response.
Go Chicago

Yea i think its down to 4 now, myself, OrganicM, Mikey1022, and luckybandit that would be the most interested.

id love to become a Moderator ​

Just an FYI, site Admin is currently extending invitations to a few selected candidates for moderation in the Smartphone Subforums.
So you should have additional Mods who are knowledgeable on your specific devices shortly.
I know, we're almost as bad as a bloated government sometimes but we are doing what we can to look out for you guys.