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Today, I took my wife to work and took my TP2 and turned on GPS with Google Maps knowing full well that once I got her to her job, I would have no T-Mobile service. The moment I lost the signal, GPS continue to plot me correctly up to the point it needed updating my maps and I got "Network Unavailable". I have an 8GB microSD card installed. My question to all is can GPS run independent of the network and if not, is there a 3rd party software that will run on the Windows Mobile OS? I like to know if I lose service I still have GPS. I can't imagine what dumbass came up with the idea to tether data services to GPS knowing there will be situations where service might not be available, for example severe weather knocks out a tower. Wasn't the idea into GPS to be independent. I get needing data services if I don't have a memory card; I don't get the logic that says, the moment I lose my cellular provider's service I'm SOL; thanks!
This is an unfortunate limitation to Google Maps. Although there is a workaround of sorts. If you cache the map data by doing all the stuff while you are in a good service area, when you are there it won't need to download all the stuff. This is a pain I agree, but it works.
yes, that is a GoogleMaps feature, but it has nothing to do with GPS - it has to download maps as it goes. if you install other software with built-in maps, e.g., tomtom, you will be free from your networks.
gehzumteufel said:
This is an unfortunate limitation to Google Maps. Although there is a workaround of sorts. If you cache the map data by doing all the stuff while you are in a good service area, when you are there it won't need to download all the stuff. This is a pain I agree, but it works.
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Click to collapse
Yes, works nice, used this 'workaround' for my past holidays. The only drawback is that Google Maps does cache the maps in the device memory and not on the memory-card, thus filling up the device memory pretty fast
Anybody knowing how to change this behaviour?
MeCry
Ahh I was unaware of that. I assume then that it would be solved by installing Google Maps to your SD card instead of device memory.
SnittyKitty said:
Today, I took my wife to work and took my TP2 and turned on GPS with Google Maps knowing full well that once I got her to her job, I would have no T-Mobile service. The moment I lost the signal, GPS continue to plot me correctly up to the point it needed updating my maps and I got "Network Unavailable". I have an 8GB microSD card installed. My question to all is can GPS run independent of the network and if not, is there a 3rd party software that will run on the Windows Mobile OS? I like to know if I lose service I still have GPS. I can't imagine what dumbass came up with the idea to tether data services to GPS knowing there will be situations where service might not be available, for example severe weather knocks out a tower. Wasn't the idea into GPS to be independent. I get needing data services if I don't have a memory card; I don't get the logic that says, the moment I lose my cellular provider's service I'm SOL; thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A-GPS is dependent on the Carrier. No other solution to access GPS according to Wikipedia.
kable said:
A-GPS is dependent on the Carrier. No other solution to access GPS according to Wikipedia.
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Click to collapse
NO, you completely missed the point. There is a real GPS in the phone.. Fairly daft, but actual GPS chipset which gets data from satellites, not entirely dependent on cellular coverage.
But he's trying to navigate based on Google Maps, which requires constant data. The answer is to get something with maps.. iGO, TomTom, etc.. Earthcomber is another free one that'll do "Google Map-like" routing and it's free, but not sure it's worth it.
^agreed
you guys are using pretty strong language to describe something that's, imho, user error. a small problem with free information on the interwebs is that, unless you can articulate exactly what you're looking for, you may not find the answer... making you the perfect customer for the sales clerk selling you $70/month data plan.
GPS is different from aGPS(assisted). the TP2 has both. that is, it has the GPS chip that can receive the satellite signal, and it is aGPS capable in that it uses cell tower triangulation and other wifi IP info. in both cases, you'll need maps on your device so it can place the satellite coordinates for you to see. GoogleMaps does this by downloading maps a-la-carte.
like Mesquire said in post3, if you buy independent maps and install them on your SD card (TomTom,Garmin,IGO,etc), your phone can be in FlightMode and still receive the satellite signal with the GPS chip, and still plot the coordinates on YOUR map, without WIFI, without Data plan, without Cell signal. but you'd have to turn aGPS off so it doesn't interfere. Keyword here is to use Your Own map, and turn aGPS off.
i'm no expert in this, and the above is my humble interpretation, but i just wanted to say, take a deep breath, and see if it's not user error that's causing the frustration.
aGPS also includes atmospheric aberration correction data to make the GPS coordinates more accurate. People seem to leave this out and think it is just internet data. This is false.
gehzumteufel said:
aGPS also includes atmospheric aberration correction data to make the GPS coordinates more accurate. People seem to leave this out and think it is just internet data. This is false.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best post of the day
I have seen on samsung simple phone i don't remember model... however so it has google earth and it was working by internet and was shoing my place in about 10Mtrs corency... so can we or do we have some kind of program to make that on HTS EXCALIBUR?????? i have tried google earth for smartphones but anyways it's requesting GPS device...
It is possible to triangulate your location to a certain (horrible) accuracy using Cell Towers in your area. I believe there are actually programs that do it (I have used one). The best accuracy i have ever gotten was within 150 Meters, standing still. That is the second down-fall..you can't use triangulation efficiently when moving (if at all...)
So unfortunately, there is not real good way to do this. For decent results, you would want a GPS.
It is possible to triangulate your location to a certain (horrible) accuracy using Cell Towers in your area. I believe there are actually programs that do it (I have used one). The best accuracy i have ever gotten was within 150 Meters, standing still. That is the second down-fall..you can't use triangulation efficiently when moving (if at all...)
So unfortunately, there is not real good way to do this. For decent results, you would want a GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used Google Latitude which uses some sort of cell tower triangulations on my DASH and it works out pretty well. I was able to get within 80 meters and if you actually look at the Google map that is in the Latitude, my position is actually spot on.
My Google Maps Street View puts me within 50 meters.
Now is this using a DATA Connection? (I noticed the title said GPRS). That could make the difference. Whenever I tested out a program like that, i would be using little to no data connection, but if there is a greater stream of data being transferred, that may affect the response (or make it easier for the phone to identify the closest 3 towers)...
xXx
so what kn of settings I must give in GOOGLE LATITUDE that it shows me my place by GPRS? i pushing on MY LOCATION but program is saing that my location is unavalibe... I live in armenia can it be areason of error?
Virtual GPS
There is a program by Kamlex called Virtual GPS. There is a free version and a pro version. It uses no internet access and gets your location through the cell towers.
When using Google Maps, just set your gps com port to which ever port the VirtualGPS is using (usuallly 3) and it will locate you to the nearest tower. I will post the program here.
I have downloaded the 4.0 update. Now I get a Weak GPS signal alert after it searches for roughly 10 minutes.
I have tried all Com0-9 ports, hard resets, and uninstalling/reinstalling Google Maps 4.0
I have the US Cellular HTC Touch Pro 2, WM 6.5 pro, running the standard ROM.
Is this a HTC hardware issue, Google Maps issue, or USCC tower issues??
I had no problem finding 8 - 10 satellites with the old version.
Using my Tilt2 with stock ROM, Google Maps 4.0 got a fix for me.
GPS is a piece of garbage for this phone, at least for me,
It just never worked again for me since the stock rom (always says seeking satellites 0)
Alos,
"My location" is always is in the same spot (I can be miles away and says i'm in the same place)
I haven't done any research on this two issues, maybe some has my problems too?
Well maybe you should try this.
After I flash a new rom to get gps to work I have to do this.
Run "htcGPStool"
Leave phone outside for about 3-5mins until it gets a lock. After that my gps locks in 30seconds or less
ps, the baud rate for the tilt 2 is 57600- com 4
try the link in my signature for the aGPS cab.
This enables aGPS and changes the servers from the public ones which are configured on HTC (and many other devices) by default to the nokia ones which are maintained better and lead to a faster lock.
After installing the cab, run and update/download QuickGPS and make sure you have a data connection enabled then either try google again or htcGPStool or any other gps utility and see how fast you get a lock then
initial lock might take up to a minute, but locks after that come almost instantly.
fone_fanatic said:
make sure you have a data connection enabled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why does one need a data connection for GPS? OK, for Google Maps, yes, but just getting a fix doesn't require one -- or does your CAB do something that /does/ require a data connection?
A while ago I read people enabling bluetooth to get GPS working. Yesterday I disabled the cellular phone and it looked like GPS was locking after this. Not a fix if you ask me anyways...
pistou said:
Why does one need a data connection for GPS? OK, for Google Maps, yes, but just getting a fix doesn't require one -- or does your CAB do something that /does/ require a data connection?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you need a data connection for aGPS. GPS itself does not need one, but the a in aGPS stands for assisted where it uses your data connection to connect to a server to locate you more precisely.
(My understanding of this is that basically your device sends info to the server about which cell site towers are near you, the server uses this info to tell your device which satellites are best for your location, so your device isn't just looking for every sat. its looking for specific ones.)
Here's the wiki for aGPS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
Theres also a bunch of websites with more info regarding aGPS but its best to have your data connection enabled if you want to use aGPS.
gotwake424 said:
Well maybe you should try this.
After I flash a new rom to get gps to work I have to do this.
Run "htcGPStool"
Leave phone outside for about 3-5mins until it gets a lock. After that my gps locks in 30seconds or less
ps, the baud rate for the tilt 2 is 57600- com 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is "htcGPStool" QuickGPS on the programs list?? If not, explain thank you. As for the baud rate, etc... are you talking about the GPS hardware port? My settings say (none) and Baud rate: 4800???? This I have never messed with, could this be the problem??
ATT Tilt 2 w/ stock ROM...Loaded google 4.0 today with no connectivity issues. I normally able to locked my GPS signal in seconds.....
dataylor said:
Is "htcGPStool" QuickGPS on the programs list?? If not, explain thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, "HTC gps tool" is not the same as QuickGPS and it doesn't do the same thing.
AFAIK, QuickGPS talks to a server and gets info on where/what satellites should be visible for your location, your location determined from triangulation (or some kind of location) of nearby cell towers.
HTCGPStool uses the GPS functionality of your phone in some way that helps subsequent lock on satellites. Honestly, I don't know exactly what/how it does -- but it's not the same as Quick GPS.
MCbrian said:
No, "HTC gps tool" is not the same as QuickGPS and it doesn't do the same thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, where is htcGPStool??? Looked through the settings and have not found anything that directs me to HTC gps tool.
I have an "external GPS" icon that directs me to GPS settings allowing me to change GPS program ports, and the GPS hardware ports.
Brodie619 said:
ATT Tilt 2 w/ stock ROM...Loaded google 4.0 today with no connectivity issues. I normally able to locked my GPS signal in seconds.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
awesome, It locates me just find just doesn't find any satellites. Then I get Weak GPS signal screen.
MCbrian said:
No, "HTC gps tool" is not the same as QuickGPS and it doesn't do the same thing.
AFAIK, QuickGPS talks to a server and gets info on where/what satellites should be visible for your location, your location determined from triangulation (or some kind of location) of nearby cell towers.
HTCGPStool uses the GPS functionality of your phone in some way that helps subsequent lock on satellites. Honestly, I don't know exactly what/how it does -- but it's not the same as Quick GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QuickGPS downloads the ephemeris data so that it can predict where the satelites are, which ones are visible, and which ones to use. From that data it is able to get a fix faster. There is no fix derived from ephemeris data, and any GPS will work without it. The GPS device in that case must basically just scan channels and listen for enough data to get a fix.
That all said; no problems here with Google Maps.. If I'm inside I'll often get a location approximation based on cell ID's and whatever goes on behind that location calculation and depending upon how the building is constructed I may or may not get a GPS signal eventually. For example my house, no problem, I might see the approximate location for 10s then the real GPS location. At work with heavy beamed roofs and several layers of metal between me and the sky I'll never get a signal inside except beside a window. If I'm outside, I nearly immediately get a GPS fix.
http://www.how-gps-works.com/glossary/ephemeris-data.shtml
As far as I know HTC GPS Tool does nothing except allow you to basically reset the GPS, ie: perform a warm or cold restart on it. Perhaps this will help, vs rebooting the phone, if GPS is not behaving. I very rarely will find the GPS is simply not functioning after a reboot.
This tool also might let you change the COM and BAUD but you would not likely need to do that on a phone with a built-in GPS. Even if you were using an external bluetooth GPS I'm not sure you'd want to change the COM/BAUD here, you'd simply use the COM port you set up with that bluetooth device.
That all said, the only time I don't get an immediate GPS fix in Google Maps is if I'm indoors. If I'm in a light structure, like my house, I'll get a cellular approximation for 10-20s. If I'm at work with many beams and much metal above me I'll never get a fix inside.
Let me try to be more specific.
1. When utilizing the app, it locates me within 3100 meters. (pressing the blue button, lower right hand corner)
2. After about 10 minutes of the upper right hand corner stating "seeking GPS satellites (0)" the screen gives me a Weak GPS signal message.
3. I have tried changing com 0-9 ports, with no luck.
4. GPS is enabled
5. I have hard reset the device and reloaded all my working apps.
6. I have uninstalled/reinstalled Google Maps 4.0
7. I have tried different locations throughout Northeast, WISCONSIN.
8. I have tried it while utilizing WIFI. No luck
9. I have tried the Bluetooth remedy. No luck
10. Waiting on replies from HTC, USCC, and GOOGLE.
11. XDA so far is the only place with anybody responding.
HTC Weather TAB
Just got done talking to a USCC tech rep.
He has stated that he is unable to give any technical help with the Google Map app. (no kidding sherlock) He was not even of any help when it comes to the GPS settings, but he did state I am the second person that he has talked to with the same problem.
Now to see how quickly HTC, or Google responds.
The only worry I have is not knowing if it is a hardware issue that should be corrected by HTC. I noticed the HTC WEATHER tab works fine. is this using the same GPS settings as the Google Map app??
also, I have been holding out on the aGPS cab posted earlier. If, and when, I use this fix I will post the results.
dataylor said:
Ok, where is htcGPStool??? Looked through the settings and have not found anything that directs me to HTC gps tool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC GPS Tool is not a standard app. Some cooks include it in their custom roms. I don't have a link for it handy, but if you search on the forum boards for "HTC GPS Tool" you'll find it.
That said, I don't know how important it is anyway...
ok, talked to an HTC tech. We checked the settings and these where adjusted. Still nothing. Got rid of Google Maps and tryd BING, and still nothing. HTC TF3D Weather tab seemed to update just fine, this gave the tech a reason to dump me on MSN and Google. Do you really think BING and GOOGLE share some programming similiarities????
Did you run Quick gps? That did it for me when I first got my phone.
It is installed under the programs lists.
dataylor said:
ok, talked to an HTC tech. We checked the settings and these where adjusted. Still nothing. Got rid of Google Maps and tryd BING, and still nothing. HTC TF3D Weather tab seemed to update just fine, this gave the tech a reason to dump me on MSN and Google. Do you really think BING and GOOGLE share some programming similiarities????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they both access GPS via WM. Maybe HTC Sense (Weather tab) directly access the GPS?
The gps is not very good atleast it is not working very well in my phone.
I tried using cardio trainer. And the gps jumps about. Plus the gps signal shown is very low can anyone put their phone gps through the paces and then tell me should I ask for a replacement or its in all phones
Mines fine.
Mine works fine, GPS is actually pretty good as navigation tells you the road names..!
Dopedangel said:
The gps is not very good atleast it is not working very well in my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you clarify if you're talking about hardware or software?
And did you compare GS with other GPS at the very same time and place?
I too am seeing poor performance with the GPS. Seems to be a hardware issue.
I did a test over the weekend comparing my Galaxy S with a friend's HTC Desire. Using one of the many GPS utilities the Desire was consistently seeing and locking more satellites when stood in an open area outside. When running Google maps and showing the current location I found that the "accuracy circle" (for want of a better description) was growing and shrinking several times a minute causing the map to zoom in and out.
I've also noticed that the compass is almost unusable and showing a much lower signal compared to the Desire. I did perform the figure of 8 calibration several times.
Not tried the GPS yet, but I'm amazed how accurate network location is on this thing.
On my old G1 network location was laughable, but this thing knows pretty much exactly where it is without GPS.
MarvinTheAndroid said:
Not tried the GPS yet, but I'm amazed how accurate network location is on this thing.
On my old G1 network location was laughable, but this thing knows pretty much exactly where it is without GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
probably having wifi on? google can locate you more precise cause it has registered every wifi network during the streetview picture taking.
tommy34 said:
probably having wifi on? google can locate you more precise cause it has registered every wifi network during the streetview picture taking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this is with wifi turned off.
tommy34 said:
probably having wifi on? google can locate you more precise cause it has registered every wifi network during the streetview picture taking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol what kind of anti-google propaganda have you been reading?
Google streetview cars collected data of open wifi networks.
Besides from the fact that google doesn't use the data (which it isn't allowed to have), there are by far not enough open wifi networks to find your location.
Also. You have to have at least 3 networks to be able to determine a location using wifi access points.
So the statement you just made is rubbish and ofcourse nonsense...
BasieP said:
Lol what kind of anti-google propaganda have you been reading?
Google streetview cars collected data of open wifi networks.
Besides from the fact that google doesn't use the data (which it isn't allowed to have), there are by far not enough open wifi networks to find your location.
Also. You have to have at least 3 networks to be able to determine a location using wifi access points.
So the statement you just made is rubbish and ofcourse nonsense...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont care about it, i like it.
hmm. just figured this because where i live there arent any open networks and with wifi on it knows my exact location. Without wifi it has a 1600 m radius.
The GPS seems to work flawlessly for me at least.
BasieP said:
Google streetview cars collected data of open wifi networks. Besides from the fact that google doesn't use the data (which it isn't allowed to have), there are by far not enough open wifi networks to find your location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google collected the SSID and MAC addresses for all of the wifi networks they found, with the explicit intention of using them as an additional source of location data. They also inadvertently collected more data from open networks, and that's what they're in trouble for.
googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/wifi-data-collection-update.html
yes and the new google navigation api in the i9000 and android appears to use this data as the damn thing turns on your wifi even when off when gps tries to get a fix!
lgkahn said:
yes and the new google navigation api in the i9000 and android appears to use this data as the damn thing turns on your wifi even when off when gps tries to get a fix!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can disable it in location settings then it wont look for wireless data
Dopedangel said:
you can disable it in location settings then it wont look for wireless data
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope it is disabled and try to get a gps fix.. wifi still comes on and then goes off.. not sure what it is doing.
I got mine and tested.
In the beginning I had a perfect fix on location. When I started moving, however, I experienced this "jumping around" issue with a huge loss of accuracy. The circle of accuracy was also changing constantly. I think I show something about the wifi seeing (or not being able to see - can't remember) some hotspots although my wi-fi was turned off.
Maybe indeed - the phone detects wifi networks even if the wifi as such is off and possibly compares it to an internal database (thus explaining the persistence of the problem even when the radio is off and the phone is not connected on the net).
Do you know any good free program that would allow me to get some test data - e.g. number of satellites / signal quality etc (unless there is already one somewhere in the interface - I am new to Android).
Can someone else run a test? Can some one run a test in an area where no wifi exists.
That's bad news,i'm really interested in this phone (money-forgiving for a while ),but i need great gps performances...
Evans_Prophet said:
Do you know any good free program that would allow me to get some test data - e.g. number of satellites / signal quality etc (unless there is already one somewhere in the interface - I am new to Android).
Can someone else run a test? Can some one run a test in an area where no wifi exists.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try "GPS Test" its on the market for free. From my test the GPS is actually quite nice, several 18-25 SNR connections and a few 26-30 SNR ones ( When outside I even find one or two 31-40 SNR ones which is really great).
Anyway I notice that GPS had become far more accurate when I disabled the Wifi-location option. The only problem is that locking down takes some time ( about 10-20 seconds max) in my area.
kitsune223 said:
Try "GPS Test" its on the market for free. From my test the GPS is actually quite nice, several 18-25 SNR connections and a few 26-30 SNR ones ( When outside I even find one or two 31-40 SNR ones which is really great).
Anyway I notice that GPS had become far more accurate when I disabled the Wifi-location option. The only problem is that locking down takes some time ( about 10-20 seconds max) in my area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok - i will test with that and revert..
By the way, in my wm6 Touch HD there was a utility called quickgps which would download data from server instead of having them downloaded from a satellite with a low speed connection. This increased speed of cold lock. Furthermore there was also another option to enable assisted gps (not sure whether this was different from the quick gps application and what this did exactly). I wonder whether these application / features are automatically enabled in our case.
Evans_Prophet said:
I got mine and tested.
In the beginning I had a perfect fix on location. When I started moving, however, I experienced this "jumping around" issue with a huge loss of accuracy. The circle of accuracy was also changing constantly. I think I show something about the wifi seeing (or not being able to see - can't remember) some hotspots although my wi-fi was turned off.
Maybe indeed - the phone detects wifi networks even if the wifi as such is off and possibly compares it to an internal database (thus explaining the persistence of the problem even when the radio is off and the phone is not connected on the net).
Do you know any good free program that would allow me to get some test data - e.g. number of satellites / signal quality etc (unless there is already one somewhere in the interface - I am new to Android).
Can someone else run a test? Can some one run a test in an area where no wifi exists.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can also be a problem of google navigation beta?? Did anyone try another gps navigator?
i felt the same thing about GPS, as it is not that good , as there's no wi-fi Google can detect hear. the performance was not that good at all!.
but tonight i used the GPS without the Wifi (i turned it off) and for a surprise the performance was amazing, I was with my friend in his car watching the road as he drive and watching the google map in my phone and was very good indeed.
that's strange!.
i'm off on hols tomorrow (cuba) and want to log a few trecks with gps. mobile data will be off and airplane mode on.
in that scenario will gps count as data usage? i assume not but want to be sure
i plan on using mytracks or jogtracker to track my course. it'll only store gps data afaik but will be overlayed on google maps once i've uploaded it after coming home, or if i find wifi over there.
That won't work, It has to download the maps themselves from Google Maps and the GPS uses the web to assist it.
I used OpenGPS abroad (which works in very similar way) with Mobile Network disabled and was only collecting GPS data.
The app tracked my positions, drew the line but and Google Maps were not loaded.
So yes, it should work - as long as you keep Mobile Network disabled you will not be charged for pure GPS data usage.
And you can download the Google Maps layer once you come home.
ferus said:
I used OpenGPS abroad (which works in very similar way) with Mobile Network disabled and was only collecting GPS data.
The app tracked my positions, drew the line but and Google Maps were not loaded.
So yes, it should work - as long as you keep Mobile Network disabled you will not be charged for pure GPS data usage.
And you can download the Google Maps layer once you come home.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ignoreme - completely misread that...
thanks guys.
ferus, sounds like jogtracker/my tracks that doesn't it? i guess they all just show you pretty much the same info anyways
off to a fair few places and want to be able to look at maps when i got home and see where i trekked across.
hope this works
GPS abroad
I turn off roaming data while abroad as very expensive but I do use GPS and Mapdroyd for location based apps. Mapdroyd stores maps on SD card. Some countries have better detail than others. Works on aircraft as well.
David
Cactus42 said:
That won't work, It has to download the maps themselves from Google Maps and the GPS uses the web to assist it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, GPS will work fine offline and My Tracks will be fine without any data connection. I've personally tried that, you just won't get an overlay but it'll record the tracks. You can see the track later with an overlay on My Tracks or on a computer.
what may happen is the google maps crying "need data connection" though. So you'd be better off installing the brut.mod anyway
got the brut mod.
anyway to download maps for a place before i actually go there? ot my sd card i mean so brut has all the maps anyway