I'm not really sure where this belongs, so I'll put it here and ask for input and if a Mod decides it should be in another subforum, I've got no issues with it being moved. Also, this is a long post so, if you're so inclined to read it and you have some advice, I'd love to hear your opinions and thoughts.
I've been playing around with the x50v I got recently off Craig's List for $100: a nice little package deal, the x50v in immaculate condition with a screen protector, a "notebook" style leather flip case - not what I want however, the original 1100 mAh battery and cover as well as an extended 2200 mAh battery with extended cover, 2 cradles, 2 AC adapters, and a 1GB Patriot SD card + a 256MB SanDisk CF card.
It works great, I updated to the Dell WM5 A05 ROM then jumped directly to Lenny's L09 WM6.1 and I'm happy with it, but this is the second x50V I've owned in the past year and, well, I guess I'm sorta unhappy with the performance. I believe, based on reading a few thousand forum postings here and at Aximsite, Brighthand, and Lenny's HTCGeeks forum - and also everything I can find about the NOR memory issues with the x50(v) series Axims from Microsoft.
I know that the filesys.exe issue will always be there, that's a given, and based on how "slow" I think this thing is it just gives me reason to wonder what exactly is wrong. Here's my reasoning, based on experience:
I grabbed an HTC Wizard (AT&T/Cingular 8125) off Craig's List a few months back because the owner snapped the USB port off inside the unit. He had a wall-type charger for the battery, but obviously it couldn't be hooked up to a PC any longer through that USB port. I've contemplated sending it off to those PPC guys to repair the port but, it's like $100 or close to it and I really don't use the phone that much except as a cheap digital camera.
The reason I mention that Wizard is because I installed PointUI on it (www.pointui.com), a fairly cool but needs more development "touch" UI application. On the Wizard, the OS is WM5, untouched, I even reset the device recently and reinstalled the old PointUI I had (not the latest 1.5a version). The point I'm trying to make here is this:
PointUI on that Wizard is ridiculously fast and smooth as butter, almost like having an iPhone/iPod touch smoothness to it, really. It's that fast and smooth, at least to me. And the Wizard has no discrete graphics chip on it like the x50v does - the Intel 2700G GPU, basically.
So, here's my dilemma: when I install the older or even the latest versions of PointUI on the x50v (and yes I'm aware that it's not really designed for non-phones but it does work), it's slow. It's not fast, it's not smooth, and for a device with significantly more horsepower - running at 624 MHz full bore with the Intel 2700G working too, as compared to the Wizard running at a paltry 200 MHz or so with no video acceleration at all - I'm a bit disappointed in it.
Also, while I haven't tested it, I wonder if the issues are being caused by the slower NOR memory in the x50v. I have tried a few games like Enigmo which came with the x50v brand new and it seems to play pretty slowly as well on the x50v, even with the graphics acceleration working.
Blah blah blah... ok, here's my question:
I don't run at true VGA mode much, that's a given. I've installed a few apps that let me enable VGA mode on the device after a reset, but there just doesn't seem to be much out there taking advantage of it: 320x240 still is the order of business for the PocketPC universe, probably always will be unfortunately.
So, right now I've located an x51 (not an x51v which I really want but can't locate for a decent price, certainly not for $100 in a package like I just found with this x50v with a few cradles and chargers, maybe an extra battery or two, for about $100. It's not the x51v as I just noted, and right now I don't even know if it's the low-end x51 (416 MHz) or the mid-range model (520 MHz), I'll find that out if I choose to get it. Aside from the clock speed I think the low-end and mid-range models are identical - only the default clock speed (max) is what differentiates them; if I'm wrong and there are other differences between those two models, someone tell me, please, thanks.
The meat and potatoes: if you had the choice between the x50v with the slow and unavoidable NOR memory with the accompanying issues because of file compaction with filesys.exe that sometimes make the device so slow it almost makes you want to just reset it to start using it again, or...
The x51 which has no such issues, but also has no video acceleration but might not need it for simple movie/video playback, and most certainly can play audio files easily, and should theoretically run much faster than the x50/x50v because they're built with NOR memory and the x51 line uses NAND...
Which would you choose based on the following:
- the VGA screen in the x50v has 4x as many pixels so it's drawing 4x the power even when VGA mode isn't enabled - this is a fact because the LCD panel has 4x as many pixels. Just because I'm not running in VGA doesn't mean those extra pixels are "off" - they're always on, but it now requires 4 pixels to show what 320x240 would show on the x51 with just 1 pixel. It's weird but it's true, so theoretically the x51 should use less battery power. I can deal with 320x240, it's fine... movies still look fine to me on 320x240 screens.
- The slower clock speed at 416 or 520 MHz is fine also, movies don't really require that much CPU power to play with the encodings I've been finding and trying to make myself (limiting the bitrate to about 300 Kbps, 320x240 or whatever but 320 pixels wide max then the height is proportional based on the source content). Again, the slower clockspeed by default would mean longer battery life theoretically.
- Everything else between the x50v and the x51 are basically identical except for the Intel 2700G video chip. Same case, ports, CF/SD card slots, same Wi-Fi/Bluetooth hardware, etc, it's all the same save for the differences in clockspeed and the video, really.
So, which would you choose if you wanted the best performance with anything you're doing, without wondering if the device will suddenly just choke to a standstill while it's trying to process some information or store it in memory or whatever.
I'm leaning to the x51, actually. I still haven't had a chance to actually use an x51 or x51v, but if the performance of this lowly Wizard at 3x slower on average with no video acceleration at all is any sign, the x51/x51v should really be some damned fast devices.
Also, I just noted earlier today that MagLite is at work again and just released a test ROM for WM6.1 for the x50!!! Not the x50v, but the plain old x50 without the Intel 2700G, so this bodes very well that perhaps he or someone else could throw some stuff into their "kitchen sinks" and create a proper working WM6.1 ROM for the x51...
I'm pretty excited at the possibilities, and yes I'd still love to get an actual x51v or even an HP x4700 at this point with the 4" LCD, but at the moment the x50v I have is working, albeit slower than I'd like. With the factory WM2003SE on it it's very fast and snappy as expected, but put WM5 on it and performance plummets, and with WM6.1 it's even worse to some degree. I'm suspecting all of it is because of the slower NOR but I didn't think it was that slow - apparently is is because this little Wizard runs circles around my x50v... seems sad, really.
Thanks to anyone that reads all this and comments, I appreciate it.
Related
Does anybody have an idea if this is a xda
http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/...e_type=product_detail&script_name=product.cgi
HP/XDA
Its an XDA like device but from HP.
iPAQ and XDA are model names from their respective manufacturers.
Hope this helps
I think that h6300 is much much better than XDA II and of course there is no comparison between XDA and the h6300, it has WiFi, BT Manager from Widcomm, Keyboard, 3600mAh optional battery and it is much mych cheaper that XDA II which all not available in XDA II...
Best regards,,,
yes. I love this pda phone. HP is the best pocket pc ever. I will buy this pda phone. Thanks for your mention. HP ALWAYS PROVIDE GREAT SUPPORT. THE BEST COMPANY THAT WE TRUST.
You must be joking, hp renowned for its lack of support, no wm2003se for it's existing ipaq range ( paq 5550) poor quality hardware etc.
I personally wouldnt buy hp kit ever, it's great kit while it's working, but wait till something goes wrong!!!!
My company supplies IT hardware, we have no end of problems with hp, you should see their laptop warrantey requirements.
alkandery75 said:
I think that h6300 is much much better than XDA II and of course there is no comparison between XDA and the h6300, it has WiFi, BT Manager from Widcomm, Keyboard, 3600mAh optional battery and it is much mych cheaper that XDA II which all not available in XDA II...
Best regards,,,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery, bluetooth(stack) and Wifi there good, BUT memory, speed wise and looks I like MDA2/XDA2 (I just dont like antenna specially holding it on landscape mode).. I guess its using OMAP (TI) 200MHZ I am not sure how to compare but memory(RAM/ROM) 64Megs is kinda small. But well wait how this two compare its other side by side. Keyboard its kind of ugly and bulky to carry with you all the time. If I want keyboard I'll wait for MDA III.. Just my opinion.
If you do buy the HP, you'll be really suprised at how slow it is,
That processor just isnt fast enough for most apps nowdays, and if you turn on wifi, it just turns into a slug!,
Stick with you XDA2's at the moment, i dont think there is an upcomming better device at the moment
Actually ....
.... although not the blazing speed of a 400Mhz XScale, the 200 Mhz TI actually held it's own, and never felt discomfortingly slow, and actually quite good in some areas (in my pre-prod sample).
My main reasons for switching from my XDA II to the 6300 will be size and autonomy ... the 200 Mhz CPU made that the battery simply lasted and lasted and lasted .... HP, imho, made a sensible trade-off between speed and autonomy.
Thanks. I will try to check on more information before I decide to it it or not. Thanks you guys!
Wiz,
What was the refresh speed like once you had wifi running?, this is where it will tax the processor and my biggest annoyance
I find the speed of my XDA2 adequate rather than blazing, we probably have different needs on device speed, but i would have rather seen 256meg inbuilt memory and the new 624mhz processor in the ipaq 6315
I'm not too worried about battery life as i am happy to carry a spare battery in my pocket as i do with my XDA2, i would much rather have speed and lots of memory than a long battery life
I suppose once it gets released and users start posting about the HP then we will see if most people are happy with it!
HP quality and support
I had 5 different iPAQs during last several years. From 3650 to 5550...
What I can say... In my case support was for 10 out of 10, but quality was 1 out of 10. HP EXCHANGED 4 times my 5550!!!!! I think so it is good example of service/quality...
About HP6315 - as long as we will be able to use BT stack from HP6315 on our I-Mate - I do not think there will be better handheld PPC Phone Edition on the market. For sure I am not mentioning for AWAITING for Windows Mobile Second Edition…
That was my brick in this discussion
The HP simply delivers what the masses want most: Cheapness, some simple extra functionality, and battery life. General users don't much care about speed, as they aren't going to add much to it nor ask much of it. Most PPC-PE users never load anything on it more than what is included--statistical fact.
We here are an anomaly--power users who demand the most of their devices. Most of us wouldn't settle for the limitations of the HP, but we need to realize that most of the general public considers the XDA II very limited. Simply because they'd never use its great capabilities, but would be annoyed at the shorter battery life and lack of things like voice dialing from BT headsets.
Carlos said:
The HP simply delivers what the masses want most: Cheapness, some simple extra functionality, and battery life. General users don't much care about speed, as they aren't going to add much to it nor ask much of it. Most PPC-PE users never load anything on it more than what is included--statistical fact.
We here are an anomaly--power users who demand the most of their devices. Most of us wouldn't settle for the limitations of the HP, but we need to realize that most of the general public considers the XDA II very limited. Simply because they'd never use its great capabilities, but would be annoyed at the shorter battery life and lack of things like voice dialing from BT headsets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:shock:
Check the CPU of HP. It's Texas Instrument and not Intel based. It is not that I am loyal to Intel but I used several HP and Compaq Pocket PCs before that were cheaper because the CPU is not Intel. (Hitachi and Samsung CPU)
The problem with non Intel Pocket PCs' was compatibility with most softwares. Most of the softwares for PPCs' were optimized for Intel based.
So I preferred the XDAII because of the Intel processor and it is "Sexier" than the HP design and I don't like Stub Antennaes.
I thought about those 2 free ram slots..
and i even found a distributer of "infineon" near me !
i think i'll take my JJ to some 1 to solder it,
and another Q is:
is it possible to buy a faster intel proccesor and replace the existing one?
will there be any problems with that?
Technical info and opinion
About RAM:
If you buy the same specification ram and have a company microsolder them into your device, great! It should be fairly straightforward. Please take measurements of your device's performance, battery life, observations, and system info before and after updating and post back to let us all know how it goes.
About Processor:
Windows Mobile 5 seems to be built to automagically recognise the parameters of the Intel XScale CPU in it, meaning that switching the CPU to another of the same family should not cause problems. Replacing it would be an impressive feat to accomplish physically, so again get back to us all on this. You could get up to 800Mhz! Check out Intel's Xscale roadmap at http://download.intel.com/design/embedded/downloads/30610501.pdf
Pocket Hack Master is a utility which allows users to overclock their HTC Universal; see http://forum.xda-developers.com/vie...&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=overclock
My personal observation:
I'd be reluctant to try microsoldring surface-mount ram chips to my new Universal (has to be done professionally). My 64MB work fine, not to mention another two chips would potentially add 1.4watts (0.7watts each) of battery drain and heat power dissipation to my device. I've only got 1600mAh and tend to travel (no-recharge).
I urge other users to mod their devices in the pursuit of science and performance; both truely noble causes. Example, more ram would ease the running of Linux on this device. Please continue working towards a Linux port for Windows Mobile devices!
now comes another moding question:
is it possible to buy a better battery?
or is the one that comed with it - "standard" and unchangeable?
10x,
P.S
P.S-
Which proccessor would you reccomend on that will not drain my batt?
(please specify exact model so i'll know what to ask for)
as for Ram: Is it possible to replace to existing ram with a higher one?
or just upgrading by adding 2 more (exactly the same) ram chips? if it id indeed possible -
again, please write me what model do i need (that would drain my batt life).
Use this link for reference:
www.infineon.com//upload/Document/Memory Products/Brochures/Mobile RAM/Mobile-RAM_2004-03.pdf
10x again,
ok, i just got off the phone with
some 1 who works with intel,
asked him the question and he says - right now 520 MHZ is fastests,
(it also says it here)
http://www.intel.com/design/embeddedpca/applicationsprocessors/302302.htm
and soon will come out a new proccessor but even then, you wont be able to just do a simple switch between them.
it'll have to be acompanied by a software update ect....
but hey, i wont mind updating just my ram :lol:
Just like the title means... i have a killer question
My little brother has a Cingular 8125, here are the aspects:
(WM5)
cpu : OMAP8590
speed : 195 mghz
ram: 64 MB
flash size: 128 MB
flash chip type: m-systems
bus: 16 bits
Storage size: 42 MB
mine are on a O2 xda iis (blue angel)
(WM6)
cpu: intel (r) PXA263
speed: 400 mghz
ram size 128 MB
flash size 32 MB
flash chip type: 28F128K3
bus: 32 bits
Storage size: 60 MB
both with 230 x 320 lcd screens with 65536 colors.
I just have moved (after reading A LOT!) to windows mobile 6.... i grab his pda just to compare, and he has A LOT of speed than mine
It's because of the rom that i had installed? (it's the one with the sticky on the threads on WM6 around the corner in here)
or because the WM edition itself
In advanced, thanxs, its a big big thing because if i am right, i had at least the double that he has, so, all of this is not right... right????
I think you will find that some of it is the rom. The blue Angel was originally as you know released with WM2003 if not WM2003SE
which was optimised by both the manufacture and the carrier of the network. These roms are made by very experienced rom cookers/developers but they are working withexisting material not rewriting code from scratch.
Also I've even noticed that my BA slowed down it's boot up time substantially from wm2003se now that it's running wm6. as well some things appear to take a bit longer. your relative's rom is likely to be the original unchanged rom and is optimised for the device it's loaded on. there are tweaks to help with the diffrence even then. but just like pc's the newer is not always faster on the same hardware.
The main problem with Blue Angel is it's very slow flash memory. Even it's own SD slot with today's cards is a lot faster. On WM2003/SE that wasn't a problem because of flash memory was used only for backup purposes while in WM5/6 the whole system runs from it.
BTW: I think there exist original WM5 ROM for Blue Angel which was made by HTC for one of the operators (who leaked it) and it is therefore optimised greatly.
That's odd, the bootup did takes sometime but the overall is certainly great even testing it with WM5. Is it just me or everyone else ? So far, I kinda like it, the loading speed from SD card somehow it's slowed down for some unknown reasons but overall it works great.
Maybe we should give Helmi & Xplode sometime to find a way to optimise the WM6, I believe they can do it, after all they are the genius who made and cooked the WM6 rom.
Couple things here. First, many think that the TI OMAP in Wizard is slower than the XScale in Blue Angel. It's not... that's simply the Megahertz Myth™
Note: The Megahertz Myth is a registered trademark of Apple.
Anyways, the Wizard is a faster, more modern device, that has been optimized for Windows Mobile 5.
The HTC drivers that were used for WM5/WM6 on Blue Angel are very poor quality... they were never meant to have the OS store files in ROM, rather than in RAM. In short, HTC never optimized the drivers Blue Angel for WM5/WM6, which is why it runs slower.
As experienced as helmi_c, xplode, and others are at this, HTC still holds the keys to their drivers, and the amount of modification anyone outside of HTC can do to them is limited.
HTC should free up BA drivers for editing.
If they discontinued BA and do not give support, then give the tools to the costumers so that we can finish their work.
BA as great hardware it only needs good drivers, because Windows Mobile is handeled great by xda-developers team!
i dont believe htc write most the drivers
most of them would be included in the oem stuff they get
like the screen or bluetooth chip and the likes
in which case they could get in trouble if they did
even if they had access to the sourcecode of the drivers
they might not
Of course Wizard is faster for most tasks. It is because of it's all-in-one design. But when comparing the CPUs RAW power, the Blue Angel is even stronger than contemporary devices like Hermes. This is however visible only when using heavy games or multitasking so it is not a major advantage for most of us. BTW: The OMAP CPU used in many devices today was not originaly made for WM5, it was first used on Smarthpone platform back in 2003 days. Even old Motorola MPx200 (Smartphone 2002) has OMAP with very similiar design to OMAP 850 in Wizard.
In WM5/WM6 for Blue Angel the slow flash memory is compensated by using more paging memory then in other devices. This is why the device seems to respond quickly but it is not perfect.
Personally, I would prefer having Wizard over Blue Angel because of it's more power efficient design. But it has poor ergonomics and one-handed navigation / text entry is impossible. Therefore I have chosen Blue Angel.
HTC releaing scources to their drivers? That is only a dream. And I think the license agreements with makers of parts do not allow this.
I bet if someone were to get friendly with a person working at HTC, We could get some BA stuff from them. It's not like they stand to lose a bunch of $ for it.
I have planned to buy O2 XDA IIs from my frnd (2nd hand for sure)
Does it comes under the name, blueangel???
also please tell me pros and cons about this dmobile device
I already own O2 xda exec, typhoon and voyager
what about this one???
cud U, experienced users please guide me....am i gonna upgrade its rom to WM6 or not??
It's a great device, you won't make a mistake It has Intel PXA263 400mhz processor (This is the only thing i don't like in blueangel. It is not so fast. If you plan to play 3d games it is not very good for this. But you can easily overclock it with pocket master to 530mhz. With this frequency it handles everything without Snow Rally - there's a little lag and you can't play Playstation 1 games even if you overclock it to 590. I got 21-23fps in Tony Hawk Pro Skater with @530mhz and Frameskip - 2), 128 ram (This is great! With so much ram you don't need real close button.But there are no applications that wants more than 32 ram, so this is not a big advantage), Big screen and the best design for games(The screen is perfect. It wouldn't be bad if there was VGA screen but QVGA is not so bad either. In web browsing the qvga resolution is a big dissadvantage. You have to scrool a lot. But now there are browsers now that supports Zoom function.With it the browsing is good even on qvga device. When Opera 9.5 comes out it will rock And the design is great for games. It's like joystick when you handle it in landscape position and there are many buttons), 64mb Flash Storage(It's not much but you don't need more. There are SD Cards for that), SD/MMC expansion slot( The bad thing here is that it doesn't support SDHC, there are no drivers for that and there won't be in future ), CIF camera (It is really badd. The image quality is similar. If you try to record video it lags. I don't know why :/ It does it wven in the lowest quality), WiFi( No problems here), Bluetooth (No problems here either), IrDA( It can't be used as a remote controller because the irda range is around 3 meters)
And finally the PocketPC comes with WM2003. You can install WM6.1 but I recommend you to wait for explode's WM6.1. His roms are the best With the new windows the pocket becmoes really fast and stable. That's all, it's a great device
dark_prince said:
I have planned to buy O2 XDA IIs from my frnd (2nd hand for sure)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice choice. I recently picked up a hermes and while it is very nice, there are some things I miss from the Angel.
dark_prince said:
Does it comes under the name, blueangel???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't quite understand this question. If you are asking if it was sold under the name of Blue Angel, no. Blue Angel is the HTC internal name for the phone. It was never sold by HTC directly, but to the various cell carriers who rebadged it with their own plastics and ROM/applications.
dark_prince said:
also please tell me pros and cons about this dmobile device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pros:
Good CPU speed (the keiser runs at the same speed, 400 mhz)
The CPU has been around for a while, so 3rd party apps that are designed for the CPU work well.
Good physical size on the screen
Lots of storage and program memory when the extended ROM is resized/removed.
Cons:
Since it is an older platform, any MW version after 2003 is a hack. The drivers are generally ported from other phones and there are various bugs that will probably never be fixed due to a lack of hardware drivers. Everything does work, there are just various quirks.
Radio range (bluetooth, wifi, etc) are not the best. Heck, they often tend to be down right crappy.
Unless someone is able to write and release a SDHC driver for the card slot, it will never support SDHC cards, which will limit the phone to 4 gig cards. 2 gig is the official spec for SD, but there are a few 4 gig non-SDHC cards out there.
dark_prince said:
I already own O2 xda exec, typhoon and voyager
what about this one???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still like mine and plan on passing it to my wife or using it for testing and development if she doesn't want it.
dark_prince said:
cud U, experienced users please guide me....am i gonna upgrade its rom to WM6 or not??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would. MW6 is a huge improvement over 2003 and 5. The latest ROM builds out there work very well, if not 99% perfectly, and are fast.
In my opinion, Hemli releasing wm6 for the angel breathed new life into the device.
Really, I wish HTC would revive the device, make an updated version of it. The form factor, while is a bit big for a phone, is great for usability as a PDA.
jdc said:
In my opinion, Hemli releasing wm6 for the angel breathed new life into the device.
Really, I wish HTC would revive the device, make an updated version of it. The form factor, while is a bit big for a phone, is great for usability as a PDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that! Just ditched my Hermes for my old trusty Blue Angel, which blows the pants off it! I forgot how much I loved the 3.5 inch screen!
Rookie as well with the Blue Angel
I am getting started with the Blue angel as well (O2 Xda IIs)
I like it a lot this will probably become my best buddy during my travels
I got a couple of complementary questions about it.
I intend to use it for business purposes, mainly Internet through
Wifi and GPRS, pdf and offices documents.
I saw on this forum that you advise to change from WM 2003SE to Windows Mobile 6 (the last published by Microsoft)
-My question is: This PDA is already a bit old now, is it going to work smoothly wit the very last OS, which is designed for more recent PDAs (i.e which should be more efficient).
I mainly want to use it for Internet, wich browser do you recommend ?
Internet explorer? Opera Mobile? Opera Mini? other browser?
By the way what is the difference between Opera Mobile and Opera Mini
you should go with opera mobile, as it is better suited for pda's. opera mini is suited for java based mobile phones.
jdc said:
Really, I wish HTC would revive the device, make an updated version of it. The form factor, while is a bit big for a phone, is great for usability as a PDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man i wish they would do that, or release a device with the same glorious screen but with contemporary features, all in all the blu angel is still a killer device 4 years on.
Absolutely right. I had been using the subj for 4 years in nearly extremal conditions, uprading and downgrading firmware dozen times. But, unfortunately it died as hero. Really great gadget, legend of HTC platform challenging ages.
Hi
Well with WM 6.1 it does everything I need and thats for sure I have my pick of devices and always come back to this one - and the 11i which is just about as good
I cant think of a time I have been upset with what it does or doesn't do. I intend keep one for as long as it will run....
John P
Hi Chainfire,
Thank you for the clarification in the last thread on the different Qualcomm processor variants.
Admittedly I am still a little dubious about your specs because I'm sure I saw a datasheet for the 7200a that stated it was 90nm - however I know that you have been in this game for while (ROMs et al) so I will accept them and verify them when I get a moment)
I also agree that the TP2 did feel snappier than the TP1.
However your argument concerning the TP being a repackaged Tytn2 is a very weak one for the reasons you specified and many others.
The TP is clearly a different class of device in comparison to the Tytn 2 and definitely doesn't feel repackaged.
Also the phones have not simply been repackaged over the last few years, I've had most of them with considerable improvements in each until we reached the Qualcomm era pre snapdragon...
Also I'm not a fan for the 7200 series qualcomm processors for all types of video related reasons.
The snapdragon (also qualcomm) demonstrates innovation and shows promise as well as potential.
On another tangent I'm really loving the snapdragon capabilities they've demonstrated runing android in the netbook market at the moment too (720p hardware encoding and decoding according another engadget and gizmodo.
As usual - Time will tell - it never lies!
Question - Doesn't anyone else feel a little betrayed at the rate of hardware/software innovation in WM products at the moment?
I surely can't be the only one.
I've used these devices for ages and after seeing things like the Palm Pre and IPhone I feel a little frustrated.
qazzi76 said:
Hi Chainfire,
Thank you for the clarification in the last thread on the different Qualcomm processor variants.
Admittedly I am still a little dubious about your specs because I'm sure I saw a datasheet for the 7200a that stated it was 90nm - however I know that you have been in this game for while (ROMs et al) so I will accept them and verify them when I get a moment)
I also agree that the TP2 did feel snappier than the TP1.
However your argument concerning the TP being a repackaged Tytn2 is a very weak one for the reasons you specified and many others.
The TP is clearly a different class of device in comparison to the Tytn 2 and definitely doesn't feel repackaged.
Also the phones have not simply been repackaged over the last few years, I've had most of them with considerable improvements in each until we reached the Qualcomm era pre snapdragon...
Also I'm not a fan for the 7200 series qualcomm processors for all types of video related reasons.
The snapdragon (also qualcomm) demonstrates innovation and shows promise as well as potential.
On another tangent I'm really loving the snapdragon capabilities they've demonstrated runing android in the netbook market at the moment too (720p hardware encoding and decoding according another engadget and gizmodo.
As usual - Time will tell - it never lies!
Question - Doesn't anyone else feel a little betrayed at the rate of hardware/software innovation in WM products at the moment?
I surely can't be the only one.
I've used these devices for ages and after seeing things like the Palm Pre and IPhone I feel a little frustrated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why has this been brough back to life? DaveShaw closed the last thread, can't you respect that and leave it for a bit?
No clearly I can't.
While the TP2 isn't that bad a device - if all else fails I will probably end up with one - There is an underlying issue here that needs to be discussed and addressed that isn't only applicable to the Touch Pro 2.
And further more I'm not offending anyone I'm encouraging discussion that needs to be encouraged.
I've been here since 2004 and been using these devices before 2004 and am seriously wondering what's happening with WM in the industry lately.
- WM7 promised the world but has yet to see the light of day.
- We still don't have properly implemented VGA recording in our devices
- Rich application experience is only available through 3rd party programs and pluggins when it should be available at the OS level.
- Why on earth do some programmers know how to manipulate the hardware at OS level better than Microsoft, the people that make the OS (Example Point UI)
Seriously what is going on here?
Have you seen the Palm Pre?
Have you seen the Iphone?
Have you seen Android Cupcake?
What do we have?
Microsoft has given us a half a hearted attempt at an OS refresh (6.5) and embarassingly all our rich app experiences are provided by third parties.
Why couldn't HTC release Rhodium level hardware with Android?
As for processor specs:
From the MSM7200A datasheet that I "absolutely don't have":
7200: 90 nm CMOS (15 x 15 x 1.4 mm)
7200A: 65 nm CMOS (15 x 15 x 1.4 mm)
Some more interesting changes in non-A vs A are that the A has 24bpp display support for EBI2, and the memory is clocked at 166mhz instead of 128mhz (aside from the obvious 528mhz (533 officially) addition) and also uses a different GPS core. I assume all the latter is also in the 7201A but I cannot verify that, so...
As to the repackaging thing, perhaps you misunderstood me. I do not feel like the TP is a repackaged TyTN II, nor do I really feel the TP2 is a repackaged TP. But, if you say the latter you should also say the former - the thread starter only did the latter. Even if for one you may feel instinctively that it isn't repackaged and for the other you do, it's either both or neither, from my viewpoint.
I agree there have been many improvements, but most of them were not in the 'bare' hardware. And that was the discussion point of the thread starter, who stated in one of his posts that we were not talking about software. Obviously, casing, screens, etc have improvements as well as the software.
Again, I love the TP2. The first time I played with one was love at first sight.
As for video, the 7200 series is more than capable - just not supported very well. With fully optimized drivers and software, video playback should be much better than it is right now. Its the old trick of unleashing a little bit more potential with every device release to get people to upgrade. Sound business model, but obviously us techs frown at it.
As for snapdragon, I agree it has got awesome capabilities, but there are some caveats (note that I already played with snapdragon devices and it felt really fast to me... much faster than TP2).
Caveat #1: How will it stack up versus the Tegra? I've also seen Tegra (test) devices in action up close (no touching, though, and it was bigger than my pocket) and it did seem extremely awesome.
Caveat #2: It's still Qualcomm. While HTC is partially to blame for the whole mess the past few years, so is Qualcomm. Both of these companies continuously let us down performance-wise. Will the old dogs learn new tricks? Will major corporations ever actually care about their customers? Will they ever deliver what they promise? We are talking about HTC and Qualcomm here, and due to past experience I wouldn't put the chances of that very high.
Of course, Microsoft also has a big role to play in optimizing WM. It's a dog. But it's improving... I do have high hopes for WM7.
Do I feel betrayed? I don't think that's the correct word, but yes, I am disappointed (even if I do love the TP2 ). I think over time things will get better though. WM being the slow dog that it is, with the latest hardware and some effort it should still be technically possible to top iPhone performance by a large margin.
I can easily understand your frustration though. I am myself heavily invested in WM (my livelyhood actually depends on it) so I am also frustrated. It can be much better!
Hi Chainfire,
Oh - I see... Got you.
So the A supports higher bit resolution displays and has faster memory!
Ok I stand corrected about the MSM7200 series processors.
Somehow I'm not surprised the hardware is capable of good Video - I just haven't experienced it.. yet.. - But I also put that down to poor colaboration (possibly deliberately) on MS, HTC and Qualcomms part)
I also have been wondering about the Tegra but I see it taking ages to come to market based on NVidia's PDA GPU efforts before which eventually materialised in Dells axim x51v (PDA) initially and then imates 6150(Phone) ages after anouncement.
Obviously this could change.
I agree the Tegra is a worthy force to be reckoned with if implemented correctly - I unfortunately have only seen working examples of the Tegra on Youtube but what I have seen has been very very impressive GUI wise.
The Snapdragon looks kinda crazy too with its 1.3ghz potential when its already flying at 1ghz on the TG01 and the whole netbook angle/implementation of snapdragon.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what WM7 has to offer although I imagine it's must be a little difficult for you at the mo with the whole Android and apple app store gaining ground and making their mark in industry.
Anyhow I wish you good luck with your WM based business projects/ventures.
Maybe tp2 use msm7201A http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=522460
That would be interesting, it is listed as 7200A everywhere on the net. But as some people already have one, perhaps they should check the about screen?
Mine still not in...
EDIT: Checked FCC pics, that one indeed seems to have 7201A. Wonder if the EU version will also have this or have 7200A. We'll know soon enough I guess!
Chainfire said:
That would be interesting, it is listed as 7200A everywhere on the net. But as some people already have one, perhaps they should check the about screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
UK version 7200A-528MHz, according the the About screen.
Hmm, that makes it likely the US versions will be MSM7201A and the rest of the world will get MSM7200A... Interesting!
out of interest im in uk and mine has the 7200A...