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Hi guys
I'm not a programmer by any means, nor do I know anything about developing software, so take this idea with a grain of salt.
The issue I notice from time to time with my PPC6800 is slowdown from lack of ram (or that I haven't closed the apps and they're hogging the ram). My phone only has 64mb....so this got me thinking.... Vista has a feature called Readyboost which uses any flash based USB key to act like virtual ram (or a pagefile).
SO, how feasable would it be to create software that would coule read/write off the microSD card as if it were ram? Basically a MobileReadyboost as it were.
Discuss amongst yourselves =)
PS: Forgive me if something like this already exists for our platforms...but I haven't seen it.
SD cards read and write slow...
What if deleating the extended rom partition (located in ram, right?) and using that for a pagefile instead?
most people don't seem to use the extended rom when cooking. why not just make it usefull?????!!!!!
S.V.I said:
SD cards read and write slow...
What if deleating the extended rom partition (located in ram, right?) and using that for a pagefile instead?
most people don't seem to use the extended rom when cooking. why not just make it usefull?????!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SD cards can be slow, but there are some models that are faster. Granted they cost more and are a little harder to find, because they are aimed photo people. But yeah.
extended rom in cooked roms is generally used for extra storage anyway so it isnt like it isnt being used
"SD cards can be slow, but there are some models that are faster. Granted they cost more and are a little harder to find, because they are aimed photo people. But yeah."
problem is that today it's not just sdcards which is the bottleneck the sd interface itself on the cpu is slow too
According to the specs the phone comes with 576mb of ram, yet when I got my new phone it only had 140mb available, which seems to me that you lose around 75% of the memory advertised before you actually get the phone.
Anyone know what is using up all this memory
walkerx said:
According to the specs the phone comes with 576mb of ram, yet when I got my new phone it only had 140mb available, which seems to me that you lose around 75% of the memory advertised before you actually get the phone.
Anyone know what is using up all this memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is using it. It doesn't RUN from ROM, no modern OS does that. ROM is merely where it's stored, it run's in RAM.
thanks for the response, i understand it doesn't run from ROM but just couldn't believe that you lose 75% of the ram.
walkerx said:
thanks for the response, i understand it doesn't run from ROM but just couldn't believe that you lose 75% of the ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't lose 75% of anything, it's still there. You're using 75% of it!. A phone that uses 0% of it's RAM would be a real-fancy paper weight after all.
If you try to open an app and you don't have enough RAM to run it Android will close activities and apps until there is enough. Any half way decent modern OS acts this way.
75% usage is fine and normal, don't worry about.
Perhaps your phone is developing Alzheimer's?
Actually you guys are confusing a lot here!
The 140MB that are available are ROM memory. The rest of the 512MB is used by the system and Sense etc.
That's not much available, since apps can only be installed into those 140MB.
Of the 576MB RAM, the system also uses some of it. But there's more than 140MB available.
it is indeed the rom, however, being that a massive majority of android apps are less than 1.5 mb in size, and if programmed properly use the SD card for storage means, the likelyhood of most people ever having a problem is minute.
I've read people on these forums with 70 odd apps on their desire and they have no issues whatsoever.
it really is not an issue.
after upgrading from the G1 with only 70mb-80mb available for installing apps unless you used the sdcard for storage was just a shock to only see 140mb available on the desire.
Agreed, it definitely is a problem if you install an app like Google Earth (22meg) and a few large games you will soon run out. On my G1 with apps2sd I had over 200meg of apps installed.
Meh, and HTC put 8GB of internal memory in the Droid Incredible (basicly the US desire), really don't understand why they don't put some internal storage in all of these devices..
Guys is there a tool where I could see how many rom and ram memory is available to install apps.
rhedgehog said:
it is indeed the rom, however, being that a massive majority of android apps are less than 1.5 mb in size, and if programmed properly use the SD card for storage means, the likelyhood of most people ever having a problem is minute.
I've read people on these forums with 70 odd apps on their desire and they have no issues whatsoever.
it really is not an issue.
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Click to collapse
I'd have to disagree with you I'm afraid - it really is an issue.
My Desire has about 80 apps installed, including Google Earth, Navigon satnav, and about 5 games. I have literally less than 10mb of ROM space left - not even enough for another game.
The space supplied on the ROM for apps is pathetic, and the sooner the Desire gets rooted (to enable apps2sd) the better.
EDIT: I've just realised I've repeated what other people said, and also may have come off like a douche - no offence intended!
Adding SD Storage does not help!
abats said:
Meh, and HTC put 8GB of internal memory in the Droid Incredible (basicly the US desire), really don't understand why they don't put some internal storage in all of these devices..
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Click to collapse
When you think about it, this will make the new HTC Incredible (coming this year) with 8GB on board a big seller for HTC, do feel a little bit let down by HTC on this
I have to admit up until today when I got an "out of space" message I assumed apps were going on the SD Card, I'm really gutted about this. But in my heart I knew at some point went rooting was possible I would do it anyway.
sdemmery said:
When you think about it, this will make the new HTC Incredible (coming this year) with 8GB on board a big seller for HTC, do feel a little bit let down by HTC on this
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Click to collapse
Afaik the 8GB onboard is as storage, not as ROM. So if android is still like today (only allowed application to be installed in ROM) those 8 GB can't be used as well. The main reason of this limitation is to prevent the piracy, but I read somewhere that there is a plan to add a function to store the encrypted application in the external storage. Hopefully that can be realized soon.
setspeed said:
EDIT: I've just realised I've repeated what other people said, and also may have come off like a douche - no offence intended!
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Click to collapse
No worries. I probably sound like a douche most of the time, but after doing my job for as long as i have, i no longer really care. but no offence intended from my end either. i may be a grumpy sod, but i'm not an a-hole.
anyhoo, most people will get nowhere near 80 apps.
I've been on android since the magic and got nowhere near that yet. most people won't. but yeah, lets hope either HTC start putting more memory in the phones, or google just add pss2sd capability as standard.
either would solve this for those few people that it does effect.
abats said:
Meh, and HTC put 8GB of internal memory in the Droid Incredible (basicly the US desire), really don't understand why they don't put some internal storage in all of these devices..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but u cant use them as system memory so its like a 8gb SD
Yeah, perhaps I'm spoilt from having apps2sd on my Dream - I've got used to installing whatever the hell I like, and leaving it there!
Let's hope Paul from MoDaCo finishes rooting/getting write access to the system partition soon. Or indeed, any other dev who can manage it
How do you guys get so many apps? I have installed around 20 apps and it's telling me I'm running low on space.......quite annoying. Having to remove apps to instal others.
boge said:
Afaik the 8GB onboard is as storage, not as ROM. So if android is still like today (only allowed application to be installed in ROM) those 8 GB can't be used as well. The main reason of this limitation is to prevent the piracy, but I read somewhere that there is a plan to add a function to store the encrypted application in the external storage. Hopefully that can be realized soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL that was pretty much what I wrote originally & thought I was talking nonsense so I edited the post, should have left it I guess
For me its not the number of apps its that some are large. Anyone have copilot installed, im thinking of getting it but im worried the maps are going to fill the memory up & leave me room for no other apps! The Desire is a cutting edge device & we just shouldn't have to contend with this issue, Heck I never had this with Windows Mobile. Then again I never had any apps for Windows Mobile
OnlinePredator said:
How do you guys get so many apps? I have installed around 20 apps and it's telling me I'm running low on space.......quite annoying. Having to remove apps to instal others.
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Click to collapse
It's not only the issue with the number apps you can install. This issue is also limiting developers. There are a couple of reasons iPhone applications/games are usualy higher quality then the android counterparts. Storage problems is one of those issues sadly.
So the rumor is no SD card slot on this baby? I'm wondering how much it will matter? I am not too worried about room. I will just buy the biggest one available in terms of internal storage and be covered there. I'm more worried about development. I have rooted and installed custom Roms on my current Samsung Continuum, thanks to the good folks on this forum, and every method involves flashing the rom from the SD card. How will this be different without one? Is installing custom roms/themes, etc more difficult? I've never owned a Nexus S or any other phone that didn't have the SD card, so I am not sure how that works. T
Its not a rumor. And flashing from internal memory should not be a problem.
I voided my warranty and your mum.
pukemon said:
Its not a rumor. And flashing from internal memory should not be a problem.
I voided my warranty and your mum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah they do it from the touchpad for cyanogen.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using xda premium
It matters to some people. Doesn't matter to me. Never filled up my 16gb. NAND memory is way faster than sd cards.
It won't matter to flashing roms.
It will shipped partitioned like the Nexus S. Nexus S has no issues with it at all.
The internal memory is partitioned I have the nexus s on the box it says 16gb( I know with all my hard drives on all OS that you never get full capacity)
They partition it off and whats left over is then made to look like the SD card for android's storage purposes. You will not miss a thing when it comes to flashing roms and such, since the storage part still mounts the same way.
I rarely need the storage but those one the fence dontgforget about google music(and other services) that will backup your music to teh marvelous cloud and let you stream and even download for offline play to your phone
BrianDigital said:
I rarely need the storage but those one the fence dontgforget about google music(and other services) that will backup your music to teh marvelous cloud and let you stream and even download for offline play to your phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly the error i made when purchased the old Nexus S
I was also a PRO preacher of cloud storage (combined i have aprox 70+ GB of free cloud storage among different services), until reality hit me in the back
all those space was useless the moment you lose reception with 3G or WiFi
basically if you are in a subway, or your work place is several walls away, don't expect to get a new batch of streaming music or whatever important file you needed to pull from the cloud.
the 14 GB space you get in the phone is no where near enough for anything, after install apps, and few good games, and couple of nandroid backups.
AllGamer said:
the 14 GB space you get in the phone is no where near enough for anything, after install apps, and few good games, and couple of nandroid backups.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The sgs2 has 11.5gb free space so im sure the gs will have the same, and your right this isn't enough especially with backups.
There will be a 32GB model, so there shouldn't be an issue.
I was really looking forward to this phone but the lack of sd card support just ruined it for me. It's not just the principle of it (charge 50-100 bucks more for a bigger ram chip that cost maybe $5) but I for one take advantage of having a swappable sd card.
It can especially come in handy on a phone that is soft-bricked.
I'm OK without one. I had two different SDcards from different manufacturers fail on me, causing me to loose my files.
I have not run into that issue using the internal memory in my phone.
My tablet does not have an SDcard, so I've adjusted quite well without one.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk
I don't understand why people say having no sdcard is a deal breaker. It's the same damn thing. Big deal you can't swap out cards, all you have to do is mount usb mass storage then ZOMG you can change your data. People will complain about anything no matter what device comes out.
borgey said:
I don't understand why people say having no sdcard is a deal breaker. It's the same damn thing. Big deal you can't swap out cards, all you have to do is mount usb mass storage then ZOMG you can change your data. People will complain about anything no matter what device comes out.
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Click to collapse
I agree. I think it may still sell well without one. The iPhone doesn't have one, and they sell that phone by the millions.
As long as I can use a file manager, store any type of file type on it, and install custom ROMs if i so choose, then I'm good.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk
i can understand how it can be a deal breaker. people who flash daily would rather use an expendable sd card whose write cycles are limited. and some people do have to move data frequently but i'm sure those have figured out how to do it wirelessly. and then you have your secret agents where being discrete with the passing of information is crucial. kinda serious with that. and then you have the peeps who just have to have their entire collection of music on them because the phones these days do more than double duty. i need to go through my phone again, but right now i'm using about 16gigs of data. approximately 10 gigs is music. then some books. a couple of backups. sync'ed data. maybe 1 gig of pictures. and videos can require lots of data and having a 32gig or 64gig sd can be a tremendous help.
why no Micro SD?
yeah, I'm sure other have posted this, so what. anyway, why would they not put one in to the Nexus phones? removable memory is an excellent feature to have, and can't be that expensive to add a reader if EVERY phone but the iPhone and Nexus has them. it's a total dealbreaker for me and many others.
the real problem is, if Google just made a little more effort to make the Nexus phones competitive by giving it this basic feature, more people would get them, and then there would be more pressure for OEMs to stop filling phones with bloat and their crappy unstable hacks (Sense, touchwiz etc.) that are dragging Google's platform down with fragmentation.
This question has been asked many times and I guess we'll never know for sure but it is Google who's ideology is to keep people online as much as they can. It makes sense to limit local storage and push people towards using cloud storage, particularly with the launch of Google Music where you can store all your music with Google anyway (which would free up a lot of space). Its a great idea, too bad 90% of us have capped data plans and streaming is not possible (unless carriers make it unmetered)
Keep in mind. We have a 32gb model available. With everything going to the cloud, I know that I rely much less on physical storage. Especially with Google Music. (I keep about 1k of my 4.5k songs locally on my phone)
The only thing I would need storage for would be apps, pictures, and a few movies. More than enough.
May be they rely on the USB Host mass storage feature.
developer.android.com/guide/topics/usb/index.html
Hopefully, the Galaxy Nexus will support the USB devices listed on this page:
developer.android.com/reference/android/hardware/usb/UsbConstants.html
I think it has to do with memory speed and performance. Removable memory is great, but personally in a smartphone I don't see the need. Once I activate a phone I never remove the SD card. If I need to xfer a bunch of files to or from my PC, I'll hook it up via USB.
How many of you remove your card on a regular basis to put in a different device? I guess its those people that would benefit from a removable card.
The rest of us should be happy with the extra speed and performance from using onboard memory.
Oh and 32gb is the limit on the microSD cards anyway so I don't see the problem of "limited" space on one's device.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
I'm annoyed there isnt any microSD slot! But I have been surviving with an 8gb microsd for years now and only use 2-3gb max..so I'll survive without it I guess.
Good thing is that the built in storage will be much quicker to save on!
chrisn0123 said:
I'm annoyed there isnt any microSD slot! But I have been surviving with an 8gb microsd for years now and only use 2-3gb max..so I'll survive without it I guess.
Good thing is that the built in storage will be much quicker to save on!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, my 8GB microSD has 2-3GB free and a fair chunk of it is for backups from messing with ROMS and Titanium backups, in addition to the usual app data, music, photos and videos.
Given it looks like for some odd reason we may only be getting the 16GB version in the UK, I think I'll be fine with the 16GB version.
Like the title says, I'm curious to see how many people actually wanted this function. I was a bit disappointed when I heard about the lack of removable memory, but I lust after this phone. I do have a 16GB card that's near capacity. I haven't cleaned it out in a while, so I'll do that first. Hopefully 16GB will be enough for me. But I digress, this isn't a rant about how the Galaxy Nexus doesn't have removable memory. This thread is more about seeing the percentage of people who did want this function.
I did want it, just like I wanted it on the NS. But I understand that I don't NEED removable storage and will be buying the GN the first chance I get. And given the choice, I'll probably go with a 16GB version, because I still have about 4GB of free space on my NS.
I really wanted an sdcard slot on it. I will have to import the phone as the 32GB versions as there seems to be no current plans to sell that version in Sweden according to Samsung themselves. 32GB is minimum for me. I had hoped to be able to get a 32 GB version and then plug in my 32 GB microsd for even more storage.
Wanted it, but mostly because i got a 32GB MicroSD card already
All of my storage is wasted on nandroids anyway.
The lack of the card slot (which even my Nexus One has) is a real shame - it would only have cost a few pence to include a card slot unless there is something I have missed. The slot would have been preferred to the barometer by the vast majority of people - if we had to choose one or the other.
If they were releasing the 32GB in the UK i wouldn't have wanted an SD slot as that would be enough for me. But as we're only getting the 16GB for whatever reason i would want an SD.
As they're not doing either i'll have to stay with my GS2.
i know i'm having issues with my card slot and/or SD card on my Fascinate. It'll say my SD card is ejected when it's not. I'm starting to think the omission of a card slot isn't so bad.. less moving parts = less things to break? lol
Not too bothered about it at all, never take my card out of the current phone.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
dragonzsoul said:
less moving parts = less things to break
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Click to collapse
Exactly!
I was a little upset about no SD at first, but then realized that I haven't taken the card out of my N1 since I first got the phone and used it to transfer stuff to the new phone...easy enough to do with a USB and 5 minutes.
Only thing that bums me out is I basically can't get the 16GB because if I run out of space I'm hosed.
SomeGuyDude said:
Only thing that bums me out is I basically can't get the 16GB because if I run out of space I'm hosed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use the cloud... everyones doing it heh.
Besides stuff that needs to be on the phone, almost everything (music, docs, photos) are in the cloud for me.
Sent from my Fascinate with MIUI Gingerbread
fdm1 said:
Exactly!
I was a little upset about no SD at first, but then realized that I haven't taken the card out of my N1 since I first got the phone and used it to transfer stuff to the new phone...easy enough to do with a USB and 5 minutes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are totally missing the point of the sdcard slot. The biggest advantage is being able to upgrade the amount of storage if you need it. The fact that it costs next to nothing now makes it even better. Also, a less used upside is the ability to read it even if your phone stops turning on at all.
To me, the best solution would be to have lots of internal storage but still have the option of an sdcard for extra storage for movies, lossless audio and other big files if the user wanted. I would be totally fine with it being used entirely for user storage. Any form of cache files that are currently stored on the sdcard probably belongs on the internal memory.
blunden said:
You are totally missing the point of the sdcard slot. The biggest advantage is being able to upgrade the amount of storage if you need it. The fact that it costs next to nothing now makes it even better. Also, a less used upside is the ability to read it even if your phone stops turning on at all.
To me, the best solution would be to have lots of internal storage but still have the option of an sdcard for extra storage for movies, lossless audio and other big files if the user wanted. I would be totally fine with it being used entirely for user storage. Any form of cache files that are currently stored on the sdcard probably belongs on the internal memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you got a small screen so movies shouldnt be large in size and phones probably aren't the best devices to playback lossless audio to make a difference audibly.
I'm pro SD card though but really you just slap a large one in there and forget about it. I do use it as a quick medium to transfer custom roms and kernels to my buddies... pictures to my gf... etc. Seemed transfers were faster directly using the SD card vs going through the phone... but with the cloud and wireless transfer methods, its a mute point.
Most stuff can be in the cloud such as pictures and music and even nandroid backups (only need a few locally). I keep games/apps/wallpapers locally but those could even go to the cloud. As long as I can download them when I need them. And you don't need to have a whole movie collection on you at all times. Just a few throwbacks for travels.
My collection spans since my nexus one and its maybe 4-5gb minus music
G2x - 2.3.7 CM7
Transformer - 3.2 Revolver OC/UV
i got a good collection of 32GB that i parked since i got stuck with Nexus S, i was really hoping GN would have the SD slot
and just purchased a 64GB microSD, with no where to use it on the GN
what am I going to do with my class 10 MicroSD?
I did want it. But I guess its cool that they're selling a 32gb version, just hope it's not an outrageous price. But I've never modded a phone without removable storage before. Either way, I'm buying on launch day.ill be importing from the UK since T-Mobile hasn't said a peep about it and I don't feel like waiting another month or two or three
Sent from my Sensation using XDA App
still hope
Ummm my xoom has usb host with honeycomb , I'm guessing its in ics as well?.. just POP that micro sd into a usb adapter when needed if true
i dont care about SD suport.
streets814 said:
Ummm my xoom has usb host with honeycomb , I'm guessing its in ics as well?.. just POP that micro sd into a usb adapter when needed if true
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USB host in ICS is confirmed by google and many review on the net
Hi,
I just got a brand new Galaxy Nexus and I wanted to ask about the internal SD card.
It is to my understanding that normal SD cards die over time with use (if you keep copying files on and off it).
I want to watch heaps of videos on GNex and I was wondering if the internal SD would 'die' quicker if I kept on copying video files onto it over and over again.
Thanks for any help.
-FireStampler
Its not an internal SDcard, its a virtual path on the internal storage that's an "SDcard". I highly doubt you'll ever read/write enough on the flash storage to negatively affect it in the phone's lifecycle.
martonikaj said:
Its not an internal SDcard, its a virtual path on the internal storage that's an "SDcard". I highly doubt you'll ever read/write enough on the flash storage to negatively affect it in the phone's lifecycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Challenge Accepted... just kidding,
Thanks
Theoretically, yes.
And I actually posed the same question about Swap and Zram to my Kernel Developer.
I got a fairly long post about how (again, theoretically, yes) it may impact after years of use...but not to the extend that I shouldn't be able to complete my two year contract or anything similar.
While this was my original assumption, the reassurance felt nice.
That...and have you ever had an SDcard **** out on you?
I never have. Nor have I heard of it happening to anyone I know (aside from 1/100000000 people online...you know).
Tl;DR
Writing constantly to the internal storage CAN impact performance negatively.
But it'd be an extreme case to have this impact you during the years that you own the device.
If I'm not mistaken, current generation MLC NAND starts to degrade after around 10,000 writes cycles, so that should last you quite a while .
Jubakuba said:
...That...and have you ever had an SDcard **** out on you?
...
Tl;DR
Writing constantly to the internal storage CAN impact performance negatively.
But it'd be an extreme case to have this impact you during the years that you own the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No but a friend who does photography has had a 2gb one die a while back and I've had a mechanical hard drive (although this is totally different to flash storage ) crap out on me just a few days ago.
This is my first smartphone so I want to be cautious but I also didn't buy it just so it would sit there doing nothing
Thanks for your advice, hope I can make this phone last a few years.