Develop Bugs

if you're considering upgrading to Jasjar, DO IT!

i've had PDA2K for two years and 2 days ago bought a Jasjar. Its great!
1. screen is fantastic (colors/resolution)
2. keyboard is a joy
3. camera better
4. better bluetooth (but still, flaky)
5. More stable WM5
It's only A LITTLE larger than PDA2k, but is quite a bit heavier.
Of course, using the factory I-Mate ROM, the thing is not perfect, but overall this phone is a tremendous improvement over Blueangel in all respects. Highly recommended!

Many thanks for the valuable information. I shall give it a try.
Thanks again for your time!

hi, i have the same thought on first look at JasJar, they are two weeks that i searching on Ebay for the cheaper price to buy one of these and enjoy VGA screen and other improvements
just one thing,please is possible for you to verify the phone antenna if is more efficient compared to the BA ?
if u want with P3Kit you can measure signal strength and compare results
anyway thanks for the info

JasJar is gr8, It is even more desirable due to WM6 compatibility.

Touch Pro 2 sucks. Here is why.

Let's face it people. When the TP2 was announced it was looking like a great device and a possible Xperia replacement. Now, after it is out, I can safely say that it has both bad hardware and software. I will hang tight to my Xperia for the time being.
Here is why I do not like the TP2:
No 3.5 m headphone jack - LOL. In 2009...............
No flash/LED on the camera - Again, it is 2009 and this is a high end device.....
No D-pad or other directional buttons on the front - They say the software is optimized for that kind of use. Well, what about the 10k apps I want to install, that require a d-pad?
No FM radio/disabled by firmware - Why??? That is the stupidest decision by a phone manufactirer ever.
Same processor as the TP. 520mhz qualcom, although the TP2 has an older version !!!!!!!!! - Older version on a model that is supposed to be a successor???
TP - MSM 7201 A
TP2 - MSM 7200 A
Same storage space as the TP.
Same ammount of RAM, although the TP2 has 20mb LESS RAM available to it. I repeat, the newer version has less RAM available!!!
TP2 has a better battery than the TP, BUT worse battery life! How about that huh???
Good things:
Nice screen. (tilting)
5 row keyboard. (awesome)
Noise cancelation.
How is the Touch Pro 2 an upgrade?? It has ther same or LOWER specs than the Touch Pro. I feel cheated by HTC . My advice is - Keep your Touch Pro or Xperia and wait for the TP3 or X2.......

I haven´t tested myself
But I must agree with you!
How possible is no 3.5mm jack??
My Universal from 2005 has it and is extremelñy usefull!, of course an adapter can be found but....
Don´t want to repat all your points but thank you very much for pointing it here
Not a real replacemet for my beloved Universal not even for Xperia
Let´s hear what users have to say about this

Some good points but I disagree with:
1. No 3.5 m headphone jack - LOL. In 2009 - I never understood why anyone would want an extra hole in their device. the adapter works perfect for me and yes, its 2009, i have wireless headphones lol.
2. No FM radio/disabled by firmware - Why??? That is the stupidest decision by a phone manufactirer ever - i installed the cab and it works perfect. who cares how it comes if you can simply install a cab file to change it. All part of customizing your device IMHO
3. Same processor as the TP. 520mhz qualcom, although the TP2 has an older version !!!!!!!!! - Older version on a model that is supposed to be a successor??? - do you actually know this proc is worse or are you just saying this due to the model #?
4. Same storage space as the TP. - who cares about internal storage when you have an expansion card?
5. TP2 has a better battery than the TP, BUT worse battery life! How about that huh??? - not sure where you got that lol. my tp2 has much better battery life then the tp1
not really feeling you advice not to buy it. I had an HD and this phone blows it away in every way. just my 2 cents

mallman said:
Some good points but I disagree with:
1. No 3.5 m headphone jack - LOL. In 2009 - I never understood why anyone would want an extra hole in their device. the adapter works perfect for me and yes, its 2009, i have wireless headphones lol.
2. No FM radio/disabled by firmware - Why??? That is the stupidest decision by a phone manufactirer ever - i installed the cab and it works perfect. who cares how it comes if you can simply install a cab file to change it. All part of customizing your device IMHO
3. Same processor as the TP. 520mhz qualcom, although the TP2 has an older version !!!!!!!!! - Older version on a model that is supposed to be a successor??? - do you actually know this proc is worse or are you just saying this due to the model #?
4. Same storage space as the TP. - who cares about internal storage when you have an expansion card?
5. TP2 has a better battery than the TP, BUT worse battery life! How about that huh??? - not sure where you got that lol. my tp2 has much better battery life then the tp1
not really feeling you advice not to buy it. I had an HD and this phone blows it away in every way. just my 2 cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 - Yes, having an adapter is so cool......... I want to plug my headphones not look for the stupid adapter EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.
Wireless headphones are used by a very small percent of people. Most people (like me) prefer NOT to have two devices to charge when you want to take your music with you.
2 - That is not customizing. Installing programs and tweaking is customizing. This is poor care for the customer on HTC's part and smells of an unfinished device. How would you feel if they had left out TouchFlo 3D? Or part of it?
3 - That is what I know from doing my research. If my info is correct.
4 - I do. Many apps don't work if you install them on the SD card. They auto install in the main storage.
5 - All the reviews I have seen mention it, plus a friend of mine has both phones and has confirmed that for me.
Agreed on the part that TP2 is better than the HD. HD sucks even more. You should definitely make the upgrade to TP2.

I have the following phones:
Kaiser
Diamond
Touch HD
Xperia
Touch Pro 2
and have bought them in that order - never sold any of these
I agree with Mallman: can't see the point in saying that it sucks.
I have been using my TP2 today with the following usage:
140' phone calls (onehundred forty)
20' Opera browsing
Exchange mail push always on
2 POP3 mail account syncing with 10' time frame.
Received and read over 50 mails.
Still have 10% battery left after 14 hours of THAT kind of use - just out of the box, haven't had the time to work on energy consumption parameters under Advanced Config.
Can't really see any difference with my Xperia. Touch HD has performed less.
Radio is ok.
Have a 8 GB SDHC card, with extreme satisfaction.
And believe me, I have tried all the keyboards of these phones, nothing compares to this one. Screen is superb, speed also.

IT has BETTER battery life (don't listen to pocketnow.com, they are the onlyones who are saying that. FM radio has been left out. Reason unknown, so hard to say if it is a bad decision. Does the processor id number mean it's older? Has it been released before? It's not always so that a higher number means newer.
The TP2 is actually faster (not only touch flo 3D) then the touch pro.
Maybe they should make also a HDMI and firewire connection...... That would make sense. There are really small usb mini to 3,5 minijack converters. ANd the mini usb is multi functional.
Please stop talking about the flash, there have been real flash phones, but only very little. This is because after 3 flashes, the battery is empty. That LED light, was fun, but never really used it. keyboard has been improved. Original wm 6.5 upgrade.
Looks are much better. I almost never used my dpad, only when something was to small to select. But the bigger screen and better resolution solves that. I have to admit that a jogdial (like on the hermes) would be a good thing.
So in your oppinion every device has to have a mini jack? So I think you get that I don't agree with you

quarintus said:
IT has BETTER battery life (don't listen to pocketnow.com, they are the onlyones who are saying that. FM radio has been left out. Reason unknown, so hard to say if it is a bad decision. Does the processor id number mean it's older? Has it been released before? It's not always so that a higher number means newer.
The TP2 is actually faster (not only touch flo 3D) then the touch pro.
Maybe they should make also a HDMI and firewire connection...... That would make sense. There are really small usb mini to 3,5 minijack converters. ANd the mini usb is multi functional.
Please stop talking about the flash, there have been real flash phones, but only very little. This is because after 3 flashes, the battery is empty. That LED light, was fun, but never really used it. keyboard has been improved. Original wm 6.5 upgrade.
Looks are much better. I almost never used my dpad, only when something was to small to select. But the bigger screen and better resolution solves that. I have to admit that a jogdial (like on the hermes) would be a good thing.
So in your oppinion every device has to have a mini jack? So I think you get that I don't agree with you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was at a club last night with some friends and it was kinda dim. My Xperia was the only phone with any kind of flash and I was the only one that could take pics. I really can't imagine anyone arguing in favour of not having a flash. That is hilarious. Same goes for 3.5mm jacks.
I had a couple of devices without D-pads (including HD for a while). I have to say that many of the apps require a D-pad or are easier to work with, if you have one.
Agreed on the screen, keyboard and looks (as mentioned in the OP).

For the lack of flash, you are completely right.
I see no point in selling phones without a flash - even a sucking one would be better than nothing.
As for me, I use these phones for my job, so usually in daylight.
Wish I had more spare time to spend in clubs during the night: would have certainly a different phone

ninja.rogue said:
For the lack of flash, you are completely right.
I see no point in selling phones without a flash - even a sucking one would be better than nothing.
As for me, I use these phones for my job, so usually in daylight.
Wish I had more spare time to spend in clubs during the night: would have certainly a different phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

ninja.rogue said:
And believe me, I have tried all the keyboards of these phones, nothing compares to this one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I´m sure you are not counting Universal keyboard
That one is the best!

orelsi said:
1 - Yes, having an adapter is so cool......... I want to plug my headphones not look for the stupid adapter EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.
Wireless headphones are used by a very small percent of people. Most people (like me) prefer NOT to have two devices to charge when you want to take your music with you.
2 - That is not customizing. Installing programs and tweaking is customizing. This is poor care for the customer on HTC's part and smells of an unfinished device. How would you feel if they had left out TouchFlo 3D? Or part of it?
3 - That is what I know from doing my research. If my info is correct.
4 - I do. Many apps don't work if you install them on the SD card. They auto install in the main storage.
5 - All the reviews I have seen mention it, plus a friend of mine has both phones and has confirmed that for me.
Agreed on the part that TP2 is better than the HD. HD sucks even more. You should definitely make the upgrade to TP2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all i gotta say is this: have you actually used the device? half of whats written on the web is not from actual use but pure conjecture. i actually own the device and have an x1 and blackstone. x1 cannot compare with this phone on any level. blackstone has a bigger screen and that about it! when you actually use the device then i will take on board your views but for now as an actual owner i am sorry to say your research is inaccurate, my experience is hands on!

orelsi said:
Let's face it people. When the TP2 was announced it was looking like a great device and a possible Xperia replacement. Now, after it is out, I can safely say that it has both bad hardware and software. I will hang tight to my Xperia for the time being.
Here is why I do not like the TP2:
No 3.5 m headphone jack - LOL. In 2009...............
No flash/LED on the camera - Again, it is 2009 and this is a high end device.....
No D-pad or other directional buttons on the front - They say the software is optimized for that kind of use. Well, what about the 10k apps I want to install, that require a d-pad?
No FM radio/disabled by firmware - Why??? That is the stupidest decision by a phone manufactirer ever.
Same processor as the TP. 520mhz qualcom, although the TP2 has an older version !!!!!!!!! - Older version on a model that is supposed to be a successor???
TP - MSM 7201 A
TP2 - MSM 7200 A
Same storage space as the TP.
Same ammount of RAM, although the TP2 has 20mb LESS RAM available to it. I repeat, the newer version has less RAM available!!!
TP2 has a better battery than the TP, BUT worse battery life! How about that huh???
Good things:
Nice screen. (tilting)
5 row keyboard. (awesome)
Noise cancelation.
How is the Touch Pro 2 an upgrade?? It has ther same or LOWER specs than the Touch Pro. I feel cheated by HTC . My advice is - Keep your Touch Pro or Xperia and wait for the TP3 or X2.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't think I'd be laughing out TOO loudly at the lack of a 3.5 jack. In 2009 people are still using the things? Good heavens, get up to date!
No camera flash? Yeah it would be nice, but hardly a show stopper not having one.
No D-PAD? Erm...that's kinda the point, isn't it? If you want a D-PAD that badly, then of course you don't want this phone. I have over 40 application on my Vogue and I almost never use the D-PAD. I can't wait to get a phone that gets rid of the space-waster.
FM Radio disabled? There may be a good reason - too early to tell. Same was true of my Vogue's GPS chip. Took awhile to get a firmware update, but disabling it by default was the best option they had at the time.
Old Qualcomm Chip - Well, they didn't need to update the chip, did they? They saved a boatload of money by not manufacturing it with a new chip, and spent far less money instead optimizing the speed of the firmware. Pretty good deal, I'd say.
Same storage space - There's a handful of apps that require storage on board, but it's not likely you're going to run into so many of those that you run out of space when you have even a modest sized storage card.
20 MB less RAM - ok, so you have less excess than before. It's still excess.
Worse battery - Umm...no, I don't think so. You're not gonna get that one to fly. Everyone who has the device knows better.

shingers5 said:
all i gotta say is this: have you actually used the device? half of whats written on the web is not from actual use but pure conjecture. i actually own the device and have an x1 and blackstone. x1 cannot compare with this phone on any level. blackstone has a bigger screen and that about it! when you actually use the device then i will take on board your views but for now as an actual owner i am sorry to say your research is inaccurate, my experience is hands on!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My research is about the processors. As I said a friend of mine has it and he let me play with it for a day. I had ample time to compare it to the X1. I was really disppointed.

ajbopp said:
Don't think I'd be laughing out TOO loudly at the lack of a 3.5 jack. In 2009 people are still using the things? Good heavens, get up to date!
No camera flash? Yeah it would be nice, but hardly a show stopper not having one.
No D-PAD? Erm...that's kinda the point, isn't it? If you want a D-PAD that badly, then of course you don't want this phone. I have over 40 application on my Vogue and I almost never use the D-PAD. I can't wait to get a phone that gets rid of the space-waster.
FM Radio disabled? There may be a good reason - too early to tell. Same was true of my Vogue's GPS chip. Took awhile to get a firmware update, but disabling it by default was the best option they had at the time.
Old Qualcomm Chip - Well, they didn't need to update the chip, did they? They saved a boatload of money by not manufacturing it with a new chip, and spent far less money instead optimizing the speed of the firmware. Pretty good deal, I'd say.
Same storage space - There's a handful of apps that require storage on board, but it's not likely you're going to run into so many of those that you run out of space when you have even a modest sized storage card.
20 MB less RAM - ok, so you have less excess than before. It's still excess.
Worse battery - Umm...no, I don't think so. You're not gonna get that one to fly. Everyone who has the device knows better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes most of the people still use them..... You better read my previous posts about the wireless headphones.
I have 300+ apps on my X1 and many of them require a D-pad.
I am curious about the Vogue's GPS chip. Why was it necessary to be disabled?
The part about using saved money from the processor to update the interface is pure conjecture on your part .
Again, the size of the SD doesn't matter if you have many apps that by DEFAULT install on the main memory.
Excess??? Excsue me, but less RAM means less multitasking and although the TP was good at this, it wasn't VERY good. The TP2 is worse and it is supposed to be an upgrade....
I can't argue about the battery, because I don't have that much hands on time with the device. I trust my friend and the online reviews though. Unless both my friend's battery and the ones of the reviewers were faulty in the first palce

orelsi said:
My research is about the processors. As I said a friend of mine has it and he let me play with it for a day. I had ample time to compare it to the X1. I was really disppointed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe you expected too much! this phone blows x1 out the water literally. i could write a list of all the shortcomings of the x1 but i know they will be addressed by the upcoming x2. prior to getting this fone i bigged up my x1 as well so i can't get down on you for that! however ya cannot beat hands on experience(not just a day) and no one who has both devices like me will agree with you!

orelsi said:
Yes most of the people still use them..... You better read my previous posts about the wireless headphones.
I have 300+ apps on my X1 and many of them require a D-pad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
300+ apps? Where the hell did you get those... I don't have that many apps on my desktop pc.

shingers5 said:
maybe you expected too much! this phone blows x1 out the water literally. i could write a list of all the shortcomings of the x1 but i know they will be addressed by the upcoming x2. prior to getting this fone i bigged up my x1 as well so i can't get down on you for that! however ya cannot beat hands on experience(not just a day) and no one who has both devices like me will agree with you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I recieved my TP2 today I completely agree with you Shingers
I owned the typhoon, Hurricane, Wizard, Hermes, Tytn, Diamond X1 and now TP2 (Rhodium)
and this is the best windows mobile I have ever owned!
300 apps.... with that many your asking for trouble regardless of handset
Cheers
Steve

rosebud said:
I recieved my TP2 today I completely agree with you Shingers
I owned the typhoon, Hurricane, Wizard, Hermes, Tytn, Diamond X1 and now TP2 (Rhodium)
and this is the best windows mobile I have ever owned!
Also, talking from a professional standpoint,
Im a Microsoft Certified Technical Specialist in Windows Mobile, aswell as an MCSA, so I know what im talking about
300 apps.... with that many your asking for trouble regardless of handset
Cheers
Steve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very well said! I have actual hands on with the phones in question so thats why i can post confidently and so can you as you not only have the knowledge but ownyou the phone. just feel its a bit of a farse to say this device sucks when you dont even own it and try to put people off it! i'd say sounds like he wants one but cant get it! hehe. no one can knock you for your opinion orelsi but pocket-link review in inaccurate but can't comment on your friends as dont know. this phone is the best dude and once we get some chefs on here to kick this custom thing off - watch out! wm6.5 on this phone will look and work a treat

Hummm... sounds like just jealousy...
------------------
HTC Touch Pro

Corrupto said:
Hummm... sounds like just jealousy...
------------------
HTC Touch Pro
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chuckle, chuckle........funny! i dont mind threads like this as i think though negative it gets people interacting and talking wihout any insults. i respect everyones opinion and even if i totally disagree with him thats how he feels!

[Q] Touch vs Touch Pro - which to get

Hi all,
I have Palm Treo 700p's and want to update a bit without losing my fair and flex
family plan with Sprint; unfortunately Spring says I can't upgrade to any of the
phones that natively run Android,
I learned about flashing HTC phones running WM and have been trying to learn.
Trying to decide between the Touch or Touch Pro which seem to be the newest
HTC phones I can use.
It appears that the Touch had the best support but the developers have moved
on and the Touch Pro may now be getting more support; do I read this correctly?
Which would you recommend, Touch or Touch Pro, or is there another phone I
should check with Sprint for use?
I welcome your input
Thanks
FS

You're going to be very disappointed if you expect either of these phones to run Android natively well.
This port isn't nearly done. Perhaps the only phone (to my knowledge) that could be considered complete is the HTC Vogue - which is ironically the original Touch you are probably speaking of.
The TouchPro IMHO is a better phone (the keyboard is fantastic - only better is on the TP2 ) but does not run Android very well. Android is just a plaything, for testing and for fun on most WinCE devices.
To sum up - the Vogue & the HD2 have the most complete port of Android, with the Vogue probably being considered "completely finished" (full NAND), however... that hardware is old. HD2 is very promising, they have a few little bugs to squash and then NAND... But no HD2 love for Sprint.
Not sure how good of an Android experience it is on the Vogue. Won't ever be that fantastic on the TP or TP2 tho.... Old hardware there as well my friend

I was in the same boat. have a great (cheap) old data plan that I was not willing to give up.
I went with a touch diamond. My previous phone was a vogue.
I can say that the diamond is a far better phone than the vogue. Better screen, more responsive touchscreen, better video, accelerometer, better camera... but the Vogue probably does better with Android since it can run Android from Nand instead of the storage (SD) card.
Android is fun on the Diamond, but its pretty crippled. No camera. No speakerphone for things like GPS. Poor battery life. Too slow for any flash apps to run fluidly... Basically android on the Diamond feels more like an emulation- because that is all it is.
That said, its fun to be able to play around with android, and WinMo is not so bad for a dead OS. There are some decent ROMs and plenty of freeware still floating around. And the Diamond makes for a nice phone on terms of small size, GPS, good speakerphone, WIFI and even WIFI sharing with the right ROM.

tk76 said:
I can say that the diamond is a far better phone than the vogue. Better screen, more responsive touchscreen, better video, accelerometer, better camera... but the Vogue probably does better with Android since it can run Android from Nand instead of the storage (SD) card.
Android is fun on the Diamond, but its pretty crippled. No camera. No speakerphone for things like GPS. Poor battery life. Too slow for any flash apps to run fluidly... Basically android on the Diamond feels more like an emulation- because that is all it is.
That said, its fun to be able to play around with android, and WinMo is not so bad for a dead OS. There are some decent ROMs and plenty of freeware still floating around. And the Diamond makes for a nice phone on terms of small size, GPS, good speakerphone, WIFI and even WIFI sharing with the right ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to set the record straight, this project is running natively on the hardware - it's not a virtual machine, and it is certainly not being emulated in any way shape or form...
I could see how you would think that, because of all the broken/not working stuff... Well we just have to reverse engineer WinMo libs, dlls, etc and then write our own drivers basically for the different pieces of hardware.
Hence the reason new kernels come out so frequently - there's a lot of work that needs to be done on that kernel to get everything working the way it should. Devs are making some good progress lately, hopefully DIAM/RAPH will have NAND soon. I heard Neopeek was working on NAND back in August on his DIAM... haven't heard much about it since unfortunately. However, RHOD's have a partial NAND, and with the head of steam we've got going now, I'm pretty confident soon we will be up to the level of the Vogue - if not beyond it. However, the processor/RAM specs are pretty paltry compared to most native Android devices.
Sorry for the damned long post. One last question, your speakerphone doesn't work in GPS? Hrm. It should. Have you tried the newest kernels...? The autobuild service is down, but F22's been kindly building them for us...

why not just get a NEWER phone other then one that was released 2-4 years ago?

Cause after having invested SO MUCH time into running android on the phone, it's impossible to give up.. And having full control over hardware compensates for the hardware being ancient

Aaron McCarthy said:
why not just get a NEWER phone other then one that was released 2-4 years ago?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because moneys doesn't grow on the trees..

HELICOPTER88 said:
Because moneys doesn't grow on the trees..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! Or I would have had a nexus 1 a long time ago... ;D

e334 said:
Exactly! Or I would have had a nexus 1 a long time ago... ;D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and I would have had a Desire...

[Q] Pre-purchase questions!

Hello there dear Desire Z community!
I am thinking of upgrading my htc desire for a deisre z but i am torn between the DZ and galaxy S..So i went ahead and decided to ask a list of factors before i make my purchase (because i am obviously leaning towards the Z)..
1) and most probably most important.How is the battery life (e.g compared to a desire-n1) ?
2)is the screen viewable under direct sunlight? (desire sucked at this)
3)how is it in terms of GPU graphics compared to these devices? : iphone4 ,galaxy s,desire hd?
4)Does it suffer from the same multitouch bug the deisre/n1 do?And if not it can use true multitouch or dual touch?
5)How is the dev support around here? i know CM is also supporting a rom for DZ/G2 ,but are there are others devs doing nice work on the device?
6)Is there anything u miss from this device ?

36 views and no reply?i only asked because these questions can be answered by only someone that has lived with the phone for a while..

It does have proper multi-touch, but I can't answer your other questions, since this is my first Android phone. And I love it

steviewevie said:
It does have proper multi-touch, but I can't answer your other questions, since this is my first Android phone. And I love it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
appreciate your feedback sir..enjoy your new handheld!

1) Battery life is amazing, much better than the N1. I can stretch around 18 hours with HEAVY use (mostly texting non-stop )
2) Under direct sunlight the phone does pretty well, just have to crank up the brightness. Remember, this is no S-AMOLED, but still does pretty well.
3) Best GPU I've had so far, Comes pretty close to the Galaxy S.
4) No multi touch problems Tracks 4 fingers independently
5) We have awesome dev support Most notably Enom and Cyanogen himself and the dev support will only increase over time...
6) Coming from a N1, I can say I don't miss anything. The G2 is a proper successor to the N1, better then that crap Samsung Nexus S garbage.
Note: GALAXY S IS COMPLETE GARBAGE. Feels like a cheap plastic toy

I forgot who it was, and what thread. But there is somebody on here that switched from a Galaxy S to the Vision, and he said the Vision was a much better phone. Do some reading on the CPU lag and GPS issues on the Galaxy S to help you decide. Also, being an HTC device, and also since it has the hardware keyboard, the Vision will likely remain a favorite of developers for some time.

In my opinion, the Vision is only the SECOND android phone worth owning. The first being the Dream. N1 wasn't good -- touch screen keyboards are ok for punching in something very SHORT, like a market search term, but anything longer and you're bashing your head against a wall. Faster or not, a lack of a keyboard is DEBILITATING. What can you do with fast if you can't get your data into it. All other keyboard androids suffered from retard issues, like incorrect button alignment and/or being motorola.
Also note that the Vision is the direct successor of the Dream (not the N1). I.e., a vision is kind of like a dream, but more powerful. It has basically the same characteristics of the Dream, but more and faster. The naming is also designed to imply a succession.... Its "vision" as in having a vision of the future, rather than "vision" as in seeing something with your eyes.

Thats great!thanks for the feedback and extra info all of u guys...i guess it turns out the only thing i miss is the better screen part..I think i will enjoy the hw kb!

[Q] theEVO, the camera, and ROMs...?

Hello EVO users,
I am new to the EVO section, but not to XDA. So I thought I would shoot a quick question or two, perhaps helping me make the most important decision I will make this year.
About to get my upgrade from the Hero in a few weeks, and like any android obsessed nerd, been browsing the specs, comparisons, etc, but most importantly browsing the ROM forums here on XDA.
And of course, the two phones I am looking at (since I am on Sprint) are the EVO vs the Epic. (Perhaps a mild interest in the Shift, but that has yet to really be reviewed enough for me to consider just yet.)
When one considers ROMs, community dev, the obvious winner here is the EVO. (Just Look at all those lovely ROMs! And MIUI even!) And likely, because of that, I will be getting an EVO.
My main question/topic for posting today is this, and perhaps someone can enlighten me:
Looking at most of the camera comparisons, the Epic is (imho) a clear winner. Natural colors, better definition, better night video, etc. And to be frank, I am a bit of a shutterbug with my phone. So there is my reason for hesitation at all. Of course, anything has to be better than my Hero, and the better CPU would (i assume) mean that I could take full res pics without a 20 sec "post processing time" lag.
Obviously, specs-wise, the EVO should be better. And from what I am reading, HTC in some misguided attempt to improve... something... is over-saturating the colors. On purpose? And loosing res as an result? (And perhaps, regardless of MPs, the lens on the Epic is a better glass?)
So, is this a function of the software, or something inherent on the CMOS? Or some other hardware based issue? OR, is this software based, something that a different camera app would fix, or something that has been "fixed" in a ROM with better drivers/software?
Feel free to enlighten me on anything/everything that I may not be considering on this. (I repair/build computers for a living, and been an Android rooter-flasher for about a year now. Still, there is much I don't know, and even less on these phone specifically.)
Further, if anyone wishes to get off topic here, tell me anything else I might want/need to know, either for or against choosing either of these phones, feel free. Like ... GPU? (Epic "has" one, EVO does not?) Screen glass/brightness? Battery life improvement with new ROMs?
Thanks for your time!

i have rooted many evo and epics. But i own the EVO myself
Cyanogen has made major camera improvements to the evo. Has all kinds of tweaks that make amazing pics if you know what you are doing.
There is a xda thread of ppl posting their pics with their evos and many of them are amazing.
Also the cyanogen team is working hard on the 2.3 gingerbread. Have been running it on my evo for the last two weeks and it is amazing. Gets updated almost everyday and is getting better and better.
I do wish someone would make some nice panarama features for the evo like the epic has.
Also way better cases for phones that do not have slide out keyboards. I rock ballistic case because i work constructions and it is the best.
Anything else you want to know just ask!