Develop Bugs

WP7 minimum requirements

WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.

The demo shown was using non-final build of the OS.
Something like BETA version, not yet final version.
There you would expect: bugs, glitch, errors, etc.
But still, it is quite impressive.
We can only judge the "perfectness" of the OS later when it has been "OFFICIALLY" released.

chiks19018 said:
WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's about more than just the basic UI. Lots of background stuff going on. All those live tiles need CPU power to populate. The Zune HD with a similar UI is only 600mhz. Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.

who's to say it needs all 1GHz? i think they're doing a great thing by setting that as minimum. our devices would be up to date much longer or at least it will feel that way. It's a good sign for those who don't like upgrading every year, no?
Besides, the Nexus One is 1ghz.... Supersonic will probably be 1ghz..... Everything will be 1ghz by the time wp7 comes out, if not more.

RustyGrom said:
Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said. It's set because it's very doable.. at the end of this year, which manufacturer would expect a new device to be competitive using an old processor? Setting a bare minimum as the minimum would mean that you have 7 Series phones which perform much crappier than others.. a situation they want to avoid.
Plus it's mobile XBox.

My prediction:
Touch HD3
Qualcomm Dual Core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon processor
4.3" OLED Capacitive screen WVGA 800x480
No hardware keyboard
5 MP Camera with auto-focus and flash
aGPS
FM Radio
Windows Phone 7 Series
...

gogol said:
My prediction:
Touch HD3
Qualcomm Dual Core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon processor
4.3" OLED Capacitive screen WVGA 800x480
No hardware keyboard
5 MP Camera with auto-focus and flash
aGPS
FM Radio
Windows Phone 7 Series
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the new qualcomm 1.5 ghz chip is not meant for mobile devices till now it is used for mini notebooks the one which will be avaliable for devices is the 1.3 ghz version same specifications as the 1ghz processor but with 45 nm technology( uses less power ) same graphics performance but with 300 mhz over clock speed nearly same performance but less power consumption

Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
An ARMv7 processor is required. iPhone/Pre/Droid all have ARMv7 processors.

freyberry said:
Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think 1ghz is enough for a mobile os (the win xp runs on 500mhz processor and on 128 of ram )

It's not all about the clock rate. An ARMv7 processor at 500MHz is about twice as fast as an ARMv6 processor at the same clock speed.
(that's why the iPhone 3GS is so much faster than the iPhone 3G, despite only having 200Mhz more)
Windows XP doesn't run on ARM processors at all.

freyberry said:
Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
An ARMv7 processor is required. iPhone/Pre/Droid all have ARMv7 processors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft said that Qualcomm was the only silicon provider right now.
Qualcomm said they are pleased that their Snapdragon CPU has been chosen for WP7.
Snapdragon runs at 1ghz+.
Therefore, in effect, the minimum CPU is 1ghz.

chiks19018 said:
WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I'm sure they could, but Microsoft wants there to be very high minimum specs that developers can expect so that all apps can take advantage of the hardware to its full extent. An example would be the way WinMo apps are now. Most 3D apps aren't very good because the minimum of what developers can expect in a device isn't very high; thus, they have have to make it use as little resources as possible.

Based on what I'm hearing most current 6.X phones will be unsupported unless they pack a Dragoon. I hope the scorpion CPU is used in a win7 phone.

RustyGrom said:
It's about more than just the basic UI. Lots of background stuff going on. All those live tiles need CPU power to populate. The Zune HD with a similar UI is only 600mhz. Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I would agree this is their plan as well. Personally, I would like to have phone stay pretty current within the 2 year contract I have to sign to get one at a fair price....
Insurance is mandatory on this one...

Ignore this post

RustyGrom said:
Microsoft said that Qualcomm was the only silicon provider right now.
Qualcomm said they are pleased that their Snapdragon CPU has been chosen for WP7.
Snapdragon runs at 1ghz+.
Therefore, in effect, the minimum CPU is 1ghz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Snapdragon can run at lower clock rates as well (e.g. 768Mhz in the Acer Liquid).
They also have slower processors besides Snapdragon (though I don't know whether the 7227 is ARMv7, I don't care about low end devices ).

freyberry said:
Snapdragon can run at lower clock rates as well (e.g. 768Mhz in the Acer Liquid).
They also have slower processors besides Snapdragon (though I don't know whether the 7227 is ARMv7, I don't care about low end devices ).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any CPU can be underclocked. The "normal" speed for Snapdragons is 1ghz.
Qualcomm specifically mentioned that the Snapdragon had been chosen for WP7.

How about the famous HTC graphic acceleration driver?
I hope this time there will be no more missing graphics driver for WP7!

gogol said:
How about the famous HTC graphic acceleration driver?
I hope this time there will be no more missing graphics driver for WP7!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft said they're providing the drivers for these phones, I think

EDIT: Never mind.

Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon

What can the Hummingbird graphics capabilities do that the Snapdragon can't? I have an Evo, but my 2nd line is up for renewal soon. I could get another EVO for that person, or an Epic, and switch the lines. I'm really happy w/ my evo, I have avalaunch V9 running on it and it does everything I need it to do.
So far, I don't feel like the graphics processing has limited any performance. I have been able to play a few roms without a problem, and a few android games as well.
So in what way does the Hummingbird really make a difference besides performance tests like Quadrant?

Are you a burned spy?

If you don't notice anything wrong with the Snapdragon GPU, then the Evo is probably fine for you. It depends on if you want the keyboard or not.
The Epic also has S-AMOLED which is gorgeous, so it'd be best to see them both side-by-side to make your decision.
Also, Snapdragon has much better performance application wise because it's CPU core is second to none, but the opposite is true for the Hummingbird, it does have a solid CPU core, but it isn't as good as the Snapdragon, however minus the as-yet-unreleased Tegra 2 chips, the Hummingbird has the best mobile GPU on the market.
Its a decision thats really up to you, if you want the keyboard, go Epic, if you can live without it, and the Evo GPU doesn't affect you, then it's probably a good bet due to the better camera & the bigger screen.

@Geniusdog254
do you have links to the whitepapers for the cpus or even better yet the phones? Id be very interested in just reading about the processors and their respective gpu's
thanks

Not to mention that it isn't that the evo's gpu is THAT much worse than the gpu is the samsung galaxy, its just that the galaxy's gpu is in the powervr sgx family of GPUs that are in the iphone....so of course games are going to be optimized to that gpu more than the andreno gpu that is in the snapdragon (at least initially).

The Hummingbird processor is virtually the same as the iphone 4 processor minus apple's mods. snapdragon is fast but doesn't have the graphics capabilities that humming bird has. I for one will not be getting the evo or the epic. i will wait for the first carrier to release a dual core phone. Either way you look at it you have an evo now, get a epic and if you don't like it get another evo b4 your thirty days are up.

nenn said:
@Geniusdog254
do you have links to the whitepapers for the cpus or even better yet the phones? Id be very interested in just reading about the processors and their respective gpu's
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately no. I've looked and looked and looked for ANY real Qualcomm docs on the QSD (Snapdragon) chips and none have been leaked yet. If there had been I woulda been able to overclock the GPU by now
I haven't done any looking for Hummingbird docs but I really really doubt that they're out yet either.
If you find any for either one, give me a shout with a PM here, or Twitter me (@geniusdog254), or email me ([email protected])

just sent them an email requesting it for my college final project. complete BS, but perhaps it'll hook a sucker and ill get some real technical information.

[LEAK/INFO] Found something interesting about HTC HD7 on on the HTC RMA

Commercial name: HTC Trophy (HTC 7)
Codename: Spark
Specifications:
WVGA screen
8-Megapixel camera
1GHz Snapdragon processor (QSD8250)
3G Network: HSDPA 900 / 2100
Hope it's interesting
Regards,
B

I have to confess, unless you're talking about the 8 MP camera, I don't see anything that was unknown from earlier leaks. Is that what you're referring to, or am I missing something obvious?
Also, I'd recommend taking down the second image. The name of the user logged in isn't blocked in that screenshot.
Cheers,
--VelJharig

Any more part numbers/models listed? Anything showing US models?

VelJharig said:
I have to confess, unless you're talking about the 8 MP camera, I don't see anything that was unknown from earlier leaks. Is that what you're referring to, or am I missing something obvious?
Also, I'd recommend taking down the second image. The name of the user logged in isn't blocked in that screenshot.
Cheers,
--VelJharig
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the head up

RustyGrom said:
Any more part numbers/models listed? Anything showing US models?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only have access to the European portal atm.

Can't believe HTC uses the Q8250 which is now almost 100% confirmed.
Byebye HTC, never liked your phones anyway, they are crappy as phones. Pooooooooooor speakers, pooooooooor batterylife, poooooooooooooooor cameras, pooooooooooor reception.
All above is right compared to other brands, the 4 most important things in a phone aswell, bad bad.
This certainly doesn't look like they are shaping up
Edit: Either way, good find OP

I, for one, don't care what chip is in my phone as long as the outcome is good. From everything we've seen, the performance, including 3D Games, is pretty damn good.

RustyGrom said:
I, for one, don't care what chip is in my phone as long as the outcome is good. From everything we've seen, the performance, including 3D Games, is pretty damn good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?

Mr.Sir said:
Can't believe HTC uses the Q8250 which is now almost 100% confirmed.
Byebye HTC, never liked your phones anyway, they are crappy as phones. Pooooooooooor speakers, pooooooooor batterylife, poooooooooooooooor cameras, pooooooooooor reception.
All above is right compared to other brands, the 4 most important things in a phone aswell, bad bad.
This certainly doesn't look like they are shaping up
Edit: Either way, good find OP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't don't seem to understand why your angry at HTC and MS for using the Q8250 processor.
Think about it this way, That processor is the minimum hardware requirement for WP7, so every application and game will be optimized for all devices and developers can take full advantage of the hardware.
Now lets talk about Android fragmentation. Even if you get a Android device with a 2ghz processor and Froyo the applications won't take full advantage of you hardware. Why is that? Because there are Froyo devices on the market with 528mhz and 600mhz qualcomm processors.

Mr.Sir said:
But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it's not "ancient" or "crap" and will allow for devices to be cheaper than they otherwise would be.

Mr.Sir said:
But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also can't understand what is happening? It's one thing if HTC would have gone mad or something, but all leaks is pointing towards the QSD8250.
If you don't want a cheaper phone that preforms better and have a better battery time, it's up to you, but I want exactly that!

I hate to state the obvious but doesn't EVERY first gen wp7 device have the same qualcomm processor? strict hardware requirements anyone?
I mean if you knock htc for doing that you may as well knock everyone else for doing it. Fact is that's what microsoft specified for the first crop of devices

domineus said:
I hate to state the obvious but doesn't EVERY first gen wp7 device have the same qualcomm processor? strict hardware requirements anyone?
I mean if you knock htc for doing that you may as well knock everyone else for doing it. Fact is that's what microsoft specified for the first crop of devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a link? We're just complaining that all the leaks are leading to the first gen Qualcomm processor. You know, the one that was in the Toshiba TG-01 back in June 09, with the lacklustre Adreno 200 GPU. If it's the newer snapdragons with the Adreno205 GPU, then that'd be ALOT more acceptable for a current generation device.
In saying that, the Harvest game demo looks hot, but personally, i find it hard to believe that the Adreno200 is doing such good eye candy. I'd like to be proven wrong.
I'm still crossing my fingers that Samsung will have a hummingbird/SGX540 in theirs.

I just want to know what people are referencing to make them think the 8650 is cheaper than the 8250? I'm not buying that.

RustyGrom said:
I just want to know what people are referencing to make them think the 8650 is cheaper than the 8250? I'm not buying that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont know about cheaper, but it should be abit faster, and less power hungry giving better battery life, due to it being 45nm rather than 65nm. The real breaker is the GPU really. The Adreno 200 on the QSD8250 is like 1/3 the speed of the SGX540.
There are still rumours about that WP7 devices might have the QSD8250A processor @ 1.3ghz, so theres still hope.
Here's a list of Snapdragon CPU's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(processor)

Cruzer1 said:
Dont know about cheaper, but it should be abit faster, and less power hungry giving better battery life, due to it being 45nm rather than 65nm. The real breaker is the GPU really. The Adreno 200 on the QSD8250 is like 1/3 the speed of the SGX540.
There are still rumours about that WP7 devices might have the QSD8250A processor @ 1.3ghz, so theres still hope.
Here's a list of Snapdragon CPU's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(processor)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I get that but people are claiming that it's cheaper as well which seems highly unlikely to me. Maybe over time but not yet.

45nm parts are cheaper to make since they can fit more of them on a single wafer. I have no idea if they are sold cheaper or not to manufacturers but they are cheaper to make.

Op thanks for the look. You still need to remove the second pic as there is no information that isn't in the first except who is logged in.

RustyGrom said:
Because it's not "ancient" or "crap" and will allow for devices to be cheaper than they otherwise would be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the 8255 is cheaper, because it's manufactured on a 45nm process instead of the 65nm. That means more chips per waffer = lower prices.

krjcook said:
I don't don't seem to understand why your angry at HTC and MS for using the Q8250 processor.
Think about it this way, That processor is the minimum hardware requirement for WP7, so every application and game will be optimized for all devices and developers can take full advantage of the hardware.
Now lets talk about Android fragmentation. Even if you get a Android device with a 2ghz processor and Froyo the applications won't take full advantage of you hardware. Why is that? Because there are Froyo devices on the market with 528mhz and 600mhz qualcomm processors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partly agree, however:
Microsoft have said all phones will run all programs, no fragmentation. But we do know that if not the first wave uses the Adreno 205, the second one will. How long will the game developers care about the ones with the first Adreno 200 users?

It's not the size of the hardware, it's how you use it.

I've seen this argument now 100 times over that you should not consider WP7 or have anything to do with WP7 due entirely to the fact that the hardware is 'last-gen.' Well, I'm standing in the store with my DVP along-side an Atrix and I've been doing some similar and even the same apps and games between the two and the DVP seems to be doing much, much, better. Of course the UI on the DVP is 1000 times smoother regardless of hardware but that's a given due to the lack of a hardware accelerated UI on android. The iphone is smoother in some of the apps due to microsoft's stupid 30 fps... thing but the OS on the DVP is even smoother than the iphone. I have to give the iphone credit though due to it's underclocked nature it's barely beaten by WP7 in terms of UI and smokes WP7 in terms of apps. If the UI wasn't so ugly and the hardware was a little less limited it would be the only valid choice in my opinion. So yeah, just the fact that there are dual-core processors on some android devices doesn't mean anything if it can't properly utilize them. I guess that was the whole point I was trying to make.

My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?

vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mad bro?
If anything, you should've talked about the fact that it has nothing to do with dual-cores in general but due to the fact that the Atrix is a mass of poor coding.
You could've also stated that dual cores generally make the phone use less power and be more efficient leading to better battery life.
Instead, I have to ask, what the hell can a RAZR do faster?

vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hardware acceleration is there, however the UI is not GPU accelerated which is why android is generally laggy. I've done my research. I'm aware of what dual-cores do but it's supposed to make it faster as a big part and hey... it's not much faster due to the UI itself. I can't even imagine how powerful an iDevice or a WP7 device would be with that under the hood but the only thing that's been selling android for awhile is that their hardware is bigger and badder.

No, I was attempting a joke. Failed huh?
I could've mentioned a lot of stuff.

yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.

orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.

z33dev33l said:
Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.

orangekid said:
Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.

z33dev33l said:
Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.

orangekid said:
matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be perfectly honest I haven't been particularly impressed with HTC's WP7 devices... they're slow compared to the other OEMs and choppy... I hate using the HD7 after using the DVP for a few hours. Internally they're pretty much the same and I don't know what the difference is but HTC's general lack of quality shows.

WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.

ErikWithNoC said:
WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certainly not in the iphone ports but in a number of the apps built exclusively for WP7it's apparent. I just wish they'd stop being a "We have that too" group instead of innovating.

orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
way to compare last year's phones to those coming out later this year (rumor is a fall release).
hell, the DS7 has a dualcore processor, does that make it a top tablet?

^ for the price it does. Mine is super fast and smooth.

Well, there aren't many tablets out right now, but I wouldn't say it's tops.
It has a low res screen which really helps it perform better, compared to other tablets and the only other tablet that was out at the time (Galaxy Tab, I'm speaking Google-endorsed tablets) had phone specs with a large screen...
WP7 would have benefitted from using a better SoC at launch because phones are sold mostly on 2 year contracts and, well, a year after release there will be tons of polished Dual Core phones. Also, since all WP7 devices are supposed to get updates future proofing them at least somewhat would have been good for the platform as a whole, and customers obviously.
It will be interesting to see how many updates these launch phones recieve after Mango, IMO.

I think dual core is not a big deal. A well managed single core processor is more than enough for a phone... unless you want to run two processor intensive apps. But if you think about it, do you ever run such apps simultaneously? All modern phone OS put an app in hibernation when you switch to some other processor intensive app.
There have been a few different points or comparisons made in this thread. Here are my 2 cents on it.
iPad2 performs so much better than iPad... the majority of the improvement comes from a very good GPU. Apple is very good at using the GPU and thus the difference is obvious. Nevertheless, tablets are very likely to be used to do processor intensive tasks simultaneously. Thus dual core can be utilized to its potential.
The barrage of android phones with dual core.... google's flagship device, Nexus S is single core. Google is going to stay with it for some time. I have been using Nexus One for some time now and I have not come across any instance where I was bogged down because I was running too many simultaneous apps. Sometimes a processor intensive app alone can slow me down, but that is due to android not being able to use my GPU to its full extent.
Thus, I agree with OP. The experience is what matters. Phone is not a PC where comparison can be made by merely comparing the hardware specifications. I think chassis 1 of Windows Phone 7 will get updates for at least 2 more years. Nevertheless, we should be seeing dual core windows phone 7 in early 2012.

Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.

ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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I'm quite aware of this however speed is not entirely out of the equation. It's not like it's doing any huge favors still as smartphone batteries barely sustain the smartphone and it will likely be that way til we get those new solar-recharging things on the screen.

ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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I agree with you. Dual core brings better power management. I did not sleep through the PC evolution. However, the discussion in these thread repeatedly pointed out advantage of speed. I begged to differ and laid out my arguments.
Nevertheless, I reiterate that unless you have two processor intensive activities running in parallel, you will not see any advantage (including power consumption) of multiple cores. My point is that you hardly do that on a phone.
PS: "apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt" has nothing to do with multiple cores. It's sand-boxing. Only Unix based systems can do that effectively. Windows has been getting better but the kernel does not support all the features.

new hardware Qualcomm’s next-gen (not wp7)

http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...e-cpu-and-gpu-chipsets-coming-later-this-year
Does wp7 really want to be only single-core really old hardware? This new hardware in the end 2011 with Android even if unoptimised will kick ass to wp7 in current specs chassis even with Mango enhacments... MS needs to work harder...
Much better games performance, faster loading apps... etc...
75% lower power... I think MS needs to step back on power restrictions... this chips will be 75% less power... they are restricting too much the OS against the Android when the new chips will have a much better battery and performance rate than the actual ones...

Well, the benefit of multiple cores isn't as obvious as one may think because software has to be written in a special way in order to benefit from more than one core. So basically buying a phone with two cores running current versions of Android or WP7 or whatever is most probably just a waste.
That being said, newer processors are built using 45nm technology and consume less power, so using those more modern cores would probably be more noticeable.
And of course it's all going the way of megapixels. Since most people will automatically assume that if you have twice as many cores the thing will run twice as fast, you sort of must use those multiple cores, no matter if it benefits the end user or not.
So yeah, I guess MS have to update hardware support...

actually 28nm...
and this new hardware, have 2.5Ghz... even if they are multi-core they should go faster then current 1ghz... with less power... and games would benefit a whole lot...
besides even if current software isn't optimized, as soon as this harware would be released people would start to optimize it. Android already start it. Does MS wants to be on the back of mobile competion, again?

Whether games will be rewritten or not depends on how widespread those multicore devices will be and when. So far games aren't exactly utilizing modern hardware - how many of them take advantage of Samsung's awesome GPUs built into Galaxy S phones? When 90% of devices in the market don't have this type of tech, what's the point of rewriting everything just to accomodate for the 10%?
Now, I'm not saying that multiple cores aren't awesome, I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely that you'll see real benefit from them this year.

tfouto said:
actually 28nm...
and this new hardware, have 2.5Ghz... even if they are multi-core they should go faster then current 1ghz... with less power... and games would benefit a whole lot...
besides even if current software isn't optimized, as soon as this harware would be released people would start to optimize it. Android already start it. Does MS wants to be on the back of mobile competion, again?
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First: no flame intended.
You're making a lot of assumptions. Faster, less power. Don't look into the neighbor's garden to fix your own garden. Think what is necessary for WP7 to advance and be better.
Then, Android is so fragmented and has sooooo many models I wouldn't know where to start if I would want to try one. There is no real stability in term of standards. Every 6 months there's a better phone (like a new generation) and you end up with an older model after that period. So basically the cycle is much shorter than on every other platform. Even iPhone has a 1 year cycle. And I don't even want to think about privacy issues there, you basically upload all your data and behavior somewhere else and agree it can be used by others...
But that is not the real issue. People expect a platform to mature over night. It won't happen, we all need to be a bit patient. If you're looking for future features now, then you've already made a mistake, regardless of what platform you're on.
People should understand what they want from a phone first. We all know it's easier to spot problems with the things you're familiar with and you see the others as better. But once you try the others you realize it's the same story again, it looked better before when you didn't know it.
To conclude: my WP7 phone does exactly what's supposed to do, with the current hardware specs. Can it do more? Sure, but we have to be a bit patient. Then, if it doesn't deliver, try something else. Until then, I don't want to be a technology nomad, I'll always be unhappy as in a few months there will always be a better phone. I'd rather stick with something until it matures a bit and enjoy the ride/phone.

You do realise that the Chasis is minimum specs right? Manufaturers can use what they want as long as it's above those specs.

^ not for chips.

brummiesteven said:
You do realise that the Chasis is minimum specs right? Manufaturers can use what they want as long as it's above those specs.
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not really... you are wrong... they can for components... camera, etc... not chips...

tfouto said:
not really... you are wrong... they can for components... camera, etc... not chips...
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Fair enough, my bad.

The good thing about how MS is handling hardware is also the bad thing. They are making the drivers so we don't have to worry about putting up with crappy drivers from OEM's like HTC. The bad thing is in order to see newer hardware, MS has to release an update for said hardware's drivers. Mango will include drivers for a newer chipset, just not this Quad Core. Than again, the Quad isn't due out till the end of 2012, so why add support now or even write drivers for unfinished hardware.

I dont see the need for multiple cores, am i the only person?

moneysaver05 said:
I dont see the need for multiple cores, am i the only person?
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+1
I want to use my phone primary as a "information device", I use it to check my mails, send messages, update facebook, look things up on Wikipedia, search translations and browse the web. In order to do these things my old HTC Touch with 200 MHz was enough (it was slow but it has done the job well :-D ). But new devices like the WP7s add further possibilities. Entertaining has become more important. Entertaining has becom more important. But in order to use the handset as media player i don't think a Dual-Core Processor is necessary. And honestly, if I want to play a game with high graphics, i use my PC.
I don't want to complain but i totally agree with you moneysaver... Using Dual-Core processors would on one hand increase the gaming experience but on the other increase the price and drain more power. In my opinion "better" processor would bring to many downsides ATM. Another thing is, that you can outsource all heavy calculations to the cloud...
In short: If someone would offer me a phone with a efficient Dual-Core Processor, I would't say no. But i wouldn't say a Dual-Core Processor is a must-have...
Regards
Chris

Most important is low power with fast processor.
Sent from my 7 Trophy using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

well low power it fast processor is exactly what this new chips are...
twitter takes 7 seconds to fully open... with a 2.5ghz would take 3 seconds and with a dual core much less... and which less consuptiom i cant see what how bad could it be...

ov2rey said:
Most important is low power with fast processor.
Sent from my 7 Trophy using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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The newer chips consumes less power

tfouto said:
well low power it fast processor is exactly what this new chips are...
twitter takes 7 seconds to fully open... with a 2.5ghz would take 3 seconds and with a dual core much less... and which less consuptiom i cant see what how bad could it be...
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I 'd rather have a fully used single core processor with optimized drivers from Microsoft than a 5GHz quad core with no software to use it. Next update will bring lower memory consumption and other optimizations that will be enough to coast us to 2012 were another update will (probably ? ) be released to support the upgraded chassis specs (dual cores maybe?)
iPhones have shown that optimized software makes up for less powered hardware (my wife's 3Gs is a living proof of that)

Android: Non-optmized OS.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/28/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-review/
- Class-leading speed and responsiveness
i sincerely dont believe that wp7 Mango optimized with current Snapdragon can compete with this speed... and the later HTC EVO 3D... and of course
battery life...