Develop Bugs

Install XAP without Marketplace on WP7S

Instead of whining about what WP7S isn't going to be (because Microsoft surely won't change their plans and development anymore) let's start to develop and hack this thing.
The most important question for the developers here would be: How to install apps without going through the marketplace. Just as we did it ever before here on XDA-Devs with cabs.
Because I am not alone when I say I'm not ready to pay 75$ a year for a marketplace developer subscription just to release my small just-for-fun freeware app.
Maybe there is already someone out there who figured it out...
EMBRACE CHANGE!

You can just load it with XNA Studio. I do it all the time with my Zune.

Then let's hope that this will still work for WP7S.

There's an option to deploy your project in VS too to deploy to a device, so I presume thats how you would install a non market place app

All phones will be "locked." It appears that only developers who pay the $99/yr fee will be able to unlock their device(s).

DMAND said:
There's an option to deploy your project in VS too to deploy to a device, so I presume thats how you would install a non market place app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but this only works with projects for which you have the source code. And this is only for debugging.
I hope someone will hack this, so that we free developers can just post our xap and all users can install it on their phones without marketplace.
Or Microsoft should rethink their business plans for marketplace. Free Apps should stay free. The developers are already spending a lot resources to develop freeware apps. Why forcing them to pay 99$/yr, too??
It's ok for devs who wants to earn money with their app. Or for advertisers who create free apps just to advertise their company. But not for private free-time devs.
If Microsoft is able to do it for students then why not for all other freeware developers who doesn't want to sell their apps for different reasons (open source etc...).

RustyGrom said:
It appears that only developers who pay the $99/yr fee will be able to unlock their device(s).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I keep hearing about it. Is there a definitive source for this information?

Cipher said:
Instead of whining about what WP7S isn't going to be (because Microsoft surely won't change their plans and development anymore) let's start to develop and hack this thing.
The most important question for the developers here would be: How to install apps without going through the marketplace. Just as we did it ever before here on XDA-Devs with cabs.
Because I am not alone when I say I'm not ready to pay 75$ a year for a marketplace developer subscription just to release my small just-for-fun freeware app.
Maybe there is already someone out there who figured it out...
EMBRACE CHANGE!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For my know,M$ allows business user install xap without Marketplace, so I am sure xda brother can find the way to do that

vangrieg said:
I keep hearing about it. Is there a definitive source for this information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I spoke with a Microsoft employee (Technical Evangelist Developer Platform & Strategy Group) at CeBIT this month and he told me that. He also told me that he himself is not happy about this decision especially for all those freeware developers.

Well, that sucks. They could have avoided users relying to hacking their devices to do basic stuff. Jailbreaking, cracked DRM and piracy it is then. They made their choice.

The various presentations at MIX mention developers unlocking their devices for deployment.
It's important to note that a lot of the marketplace details are still up in the air. The pricing may change. They've specifically stated that they haven't decided on the 5app (or is it 3, I forget) limit. They very well may allow developers to sign up for a free account and only publish free apps with no advertising. We shall see.

I'm sure they are having much more heated discussions about it than we here are.

Cipher said:
I spoke with a Microsoft employee (Technical Evangelist Developer Platform & Strategy Group) at CeBIT this month and he told me that. He also told me that he himself is not happy about this decision especially for all those freeware developers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey my Friends,
let me ask this question: I'm using an HTC HD2 with a Windows 7. I love it, but the camera is really bullsh..!
So I found an XAP, what gives me the full camera option.
Does it means, that I have to pay Microsoft, to put this App on? Or is there another way to install it on my phone?
This is not really hacking, because if I can't use my cam, I have to go back to the android system. That will hurt Microsoft even more?!?
Please let me know about your oppinions
Thanks

KegelS said:
Hey my Friends,
<snip>
I'm using an HTC HD2 with a Windows 7
<snip>I have to go back to the android system. That will hurt Microsoft even more?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How will it hurt Microsoft for you to stop using their OS when you haven't paid for a licence for it?

Copy&Paste Support

Clipboard:
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms589129(v=VS.95).aspx
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.uielement.mouserightbuttondown(VS.95).aspx
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.controls.primitives.popup(v=VS.95).aspx
See? All supported in Silverlight 4. Once the phone runs Silverlight 4, it'll support these.
There, done, now you can shut up and stop complaining about it missing. Thank you.

Why stop complaining? It's still missing. What about you shutting up until they finally add it?

Windcape said:
Clipboard:
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms589129(v=VS.95).aspx
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.uielement.mouserightbuttondown(VS.95).aspx
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.controls.primitives.popup(v=VS.95).aspx
See? All supported in Silverlight 4. Once the phone runs Silverlight 4, it'll support these.
There, done, now you can shut up and stop complaining about it missing. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who's to say it'll run Silverlight 4?

darkmurder said:
Who's to say it'll run Silverlight 4?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft?

When? 2-3 years or later...
Sent from my Hero CDMA using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

does it support c&p now? no, well untill(if) they add those features, I will complain.
RustyGrom said:
Microsoft?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does they say when? seriously I don't want to wait few years untill ms add this.

We can complain here as much as we want.
Our right as customers.
I will never agree to beeing limited yet forced to acknowledge this as having
more possibilities.

RustyGrom said:
Microsoft?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got a quote thats from their mouth saying itll get Silverlight 4? Cheers mate!

They will add Silverlight 4. Don't know where I heard them say that, but they did.
Nevertheless, copy&paste isn't there now and who knows how long it will take them to add it?

darkmurder said:
Got a quote thats from their mouth saying itll get Silverlight 4? Cheers mate!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty sure they said it at MIX. I'm not going to dig through hours of video to find it though. And jeeze, you act like it's some sort of crazy idea. It's already running Silverlight 3+. Silverlight 4 was just finished recently. They don't have time to include it before launch.

It's rather illogical to say a phone based on Silverlight, wouldn't be upgraded to the latest version of Silverlight eventually.
And yes, SL4 was released 2 months after the WP7 preview

And it is silly to think that phone based only on silverlight won't support silverlight in Internet Explorer. Oh, wait
Copy and Paste took only 3 major versions of iPhone OS upgrades to be implemented. Why in 2010 I need to go back in time and live without C&P, while iPhone, Android and even Windows Mobile have it.

You know the Android implementation of copy&paste is terrible broken right? But feel free to get a Android, I'm sure the "no paid apps in Europe" makes it a GREAT alternative.
It never ceases to amaze me that people keep focus on the smallest of small issues, instead of the actual problems. I guess the truth is people are just annoyed about the alternatives being so crappy, that they have to complain about something to justify not buying the phone at first possible option.

RustyGrom said:
Pretty sure they said it at MIX. I'm not going to dig through hours of video to find it though. And jeeze, you act like it's some sort of crazy idea. It's already running Silverlight 3+. Silverlight 4 was just finished recently. They don't have time to include it before launch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok thats all I wanted to hear, sorry if I came across as prudent I just don't want to get my hopes up then be disappointed later on

Windcape said:
You know the Android implementation of copy&paste is terrible broken right? But feel free to get a Android, I'm sure the "no paid apps in Europe" makes it a GREAT alternative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is Google's first foray into the OS business. Microsoft has been around for decades. Windows 3.1 had c&p, Microsoft 1.0 had it (remember this? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4915875929930836239#docid=-2992183880068262304) heck, even my old Commodore 64 running GEOS had it. So yes! I am a bit surprised to see such a basic feature missing in the latest Microsoft OS.
btw WP7 marketplace will only be for 17 countries and no sideloading alternative. If you could sideload, a developer can sell you the app from his website or on an alternative such as slideme
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_.../07/13/windows-phone-7-getting-connected.aspx

17 countries at launch, and no-sideloading is really good for developers who want to write applications for a living. It ensures a good and uniform distribution center for applications.
And as I said with this topic, copy&paste is already made. It's just not supported yet, because the Silverlight 4 implementation was first finished in April.

Windcape said:
17 countries at launch, and no-sideloading is really good for developers who want to write applications for a living. It ensures a good and uniform distribution center for applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gameloft can actually sell their Android games to people living in your country since they can sell from their website. They won't have to worry about app approval restrictions, paying a share of their profits to anyone, or the race to the bottom where everything ends up selling for under $1.

ari-free said:
Gameloft can actually sell their Android games to people living in your country since they can sell from their website. They won't have to worry about app approval restrictions, paying a share of their profits to anyone, or the race to the bottom where everything ends up selling for under $1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And have to do their own marketing, setup a payment site and distribution channel, and deal with piracy!
And they can't sell apps directly on the phone, but have to guide users to a often long and complicated website url, and a site that's probably not even optimized for mobile phones.
You don't see the big issues here? Distribution and marketing is much much bigger issues than anything else.

Its not the same,
for instance if you send me an email with a coupon code in it, and now I want to paste that on the website of the specified vendor, I cant do it. Outlook doesn't support copy, and IE doesn't support paste.
Oh no!! i am compelled to either remember an 8 digit alpha numeric code (or write it down, sounds pretty primitive to me). What if it was an mailing address on a website that you wanted to email a friend - that's even worse.
I see no reason to stop complaining yet.

Windcape said:
17 countries at launch, and no-sideloading is really good for developers who want to write applications for a living. It ensures a good and uniform distribution center for applications.
And as I said with this topic, copy&paste is already made. It's just not supported yet, because the Silverlight 4 implementation was first finished in April.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a complaint about this too. The phone 'phones home' to check if the application is valid. As a developer this is awesome, but as a phone user, I am worried about my data package.
For instance if I install a world clock app, as a result every time i check launch the app to check the time in Denmark, I use bandwidth.
In the states this might not be a problem, but in other countries, data can be expensive.
I hope the implementation of phoning home is elegant, and not burdonsome

[Q] Tethering

I rang t-mob Uk on saturday to see if tethering on their omnia 7 was permitted or not.
Intially the woman started to read the specs of the wrong phone. She then said that tethering via bluetooth and usb works.
Not convinced, I did the live chat via the t-mob site. This time I was told that tethering via Bt and usb is fine BUT additionally the wm6.5 type wifi routing works. I find the later hard to believe and am unsure as validity of the former advice.
Can any one confirm?
Thanks

There is no tethering on wp7 as of yet

There is no tethering option on wp7 yet.

Blimey!!!
Thanks for clarifying this.
The pre-release info was conflicting with some people saying that it was possible but at the discretion of the carrier.
So if I go for wp7 I will then need to cough up extra for a separate data plan for my laptop.
Nice one M$- I have been out of contract since June and was happy to wait for wp7 and now it seems that I can't even do the basics that I have been able to do for the last 10 years.
The Applefication of WM is so disappointing.
I guess I have the option of jumping to the good ship android or buying an old HD2 until M$ add the things that grown ups need or until someone here manages to "jail brake" wp7
Does anyone know when tethering might be added?
Thanks

This is the very first release of an entirely new operating system so people need to be a little patient. Tethering support is coming but we don't know when yet. If you absolutely have to have tethering right now then go with another OS.

Ren13B said:
This is the very first release of an entirely new operating system so people need to be a little patient. Tethering support is coming but we don't know when yet. If you absolutely have to have tethering right now then go with another OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't a slight on you but the "this is new so expect problems" mantra is crap.
Microsoft have been making smart phones for years, they are not new at this game. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to provide things that exist in their older platforms. Did the bloke that developed cut&paste in the old winCE die and take his secret to the grave?
Why should we be patient? we are expected to cough up £500 for a phone which may or may not be more retarded than previous incarnations. Microsoft know what they can and cannot do, why not publish a road map?
Hell, it's not like the harware is even new technology!!!

imaginarynumber said:
This isn't a slight on you but the "this is new so expect problems" mantra is crap.
Microsoft have been making smart phones for years, they are not new at this game. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to provide things that exist in their older platforms. Did the bloke that developed cut&paste in the old winCE die and take his secret to the grave?
Why should we be patient? we are expected to cough up £500 for a phone which may or may not be more retarded than previous incarnations. Microsoft know what they can and cannot do, why not publish a road map?
Hell, it's not like the harware is even new technology!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between WP7 and previous Windows Mobile OS versions is why many "less used" features are not yet complete. With WP7, Microsoft actually wants the experience to be fluid and consistent. This means they have to completely rethink and rewrite all the code. There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development. iOS and Android had the same issues with their initial releases.
Good things come to those who wait. Expecting everything in hurry will typically leave you with a bunch of poorly written garbage software. Microsoft has already spoken to both copy/paste and tethering. They will add these features and more. If these features are that important to anyone, they should wait for them to be implemented before buying a WP7 device. Otherwise, there are other choices.

imaginarynumber said:
This isn't a slight on you but the "this is new so expect problems" mantra is crap.
Microsoft have been making smart phones for years, they are not new at this game. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to provide things that exist in their older platforms. Did the bloke that developed cut&paste in the old winCE die and take his secret to the grave?
Why should we be patient? we are expected to cough up £500 for a phone which may or may not be more retarded than previous incarnations. Microsoft know what they can and cannot do, why not publish a road map?
Hell, it's not like the harware is even new technology!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL... so true... there is no excuse really

I am not sold.
I think that many of the omissions are not down to the fact that the MS techies were not bright enough but moreover that they are result of microsoft calculating that customers or carriers did not want certain features.
If your argument held true then wm6.5 would have been nearing perfection and there would be no need for wp7.
Perhaps you are confusing patience with gullibility.
BTW with regard to
"There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development"
So what are alpha and beta testing for? Products should work when they get to the market place, not half a year later.

imaginarynumber said:
I am not sold.
I think that many of the omissions are not down to the fact that the MS techies were not bright enough but moreover that they are result of microsoft calculating that customers or carriers did not want certain features.
If your argument held true then wm6.5 would have been nearing perfection and there would be no need for wp7.
Perhaps you are confusing patience with gullibility.
BTW with regard to
"There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development"
So what are alpha and beta testing for? Products should work when they get to the market place, not half a year later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are free to believe whatever you wish. I am not selling you anything. Just giving an educated response.
Nobody is forcing you to buy a WP7 device. I like the way you ignore that ALL the advertised features of WP7 are fully functional. That kind of negates your statement about "products should work when the het to the market place." This has nothing to do with alpha or beta testing. These features are already at that stage of development.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

imaginarynumber said:
I am not sold.
I think that many of the omissions are not down to the fact that the MS techies were not bright enough but moreover that they are result of microsoft calculating that customers or carriers did not want certain features.
If your argument held true then wm6.5 would have been nearing perfection and there would be no need for wp7.
Perhaps you are confusing patience with gullibility.
BTW with regard to
"There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development"
So what are alpha and beta testing for? Products should work when they get to the market place, not half a year later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's about both that and the money. For some reason *cough cough RIAA* Microsoft want users to have to re-purchase whatever files they hope to use on the device.

naplesbill said:
You are free to believe whatever you wish. I am not selling you anything. Just giving an educated response.
Nobody is forcing you to buy a WP7 device. I like the way you ignore that ALL the advertised features of WP7 are fully functional. That kind of negates your statement about "products should work when the het to the market place." This has nothing to do with alpha or beta testing. These features are already at that stage of development.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr....... thanks for sharing the benefit of your education...
Funnily enough I too had an education. This enables me to read posts by Brandon Watson (Director for Windows Phone 7). The same man that said that WP7 would support tethering but at the discretion of the carrier.
Regrettably my education did not include mind reading and thus I did not realise that his statement meant "WP does not support tethering but it may or may not at some point in the near or distant future"
And to which of the advertised features are you referring? How do you know that they all work perfectly? Would the advertised claim that you can "manage.. your email with ease" suffice? Well seemingly not unless you think that having to hard reset your phone in order to delete your windows live account post a typo error is perfection. Or what about the xbox live extras that have been crashing and now removed from the market place?
As consumers we expect products to improve throughout their life cycles. We want features to become better and not just be omitted. It beggars belief that you think that removing givens such as changing ringtones or tetherings is acceptable.
I agree that nobody is forcing me to buy a WP, in the same way that no recalled toyota owner was forced to by a toyota but I guess that toyota never listed non-sticking brakes as advertised features.
Just out of interest- at what point is one allowed to complain? If i wait until I purchase something do I have even less right given that i knew that it was not perfect at the point of purchase?

I love lamp.

kdj67f said:
I love lamp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
????????????????
Beyond my ken, sorry...

I do get your frustration and went through the same feelings.
My Tilt 2 (Rhodium) can wifi tether right now and it works great, why not the next 'evolution'?
I think the biggest reason I found it from reading forums and listening to other users is this:
We (those of us who use XDA and like to push our tech to do our bidding) want and use features such as tethering. What portion of the demographic is MS seeking here with WP7, surely a much larger base then those who live / breathe XDA yes?
There aren't thousands, heck even hundreds, of people with torches and pitchforks screaming for tethering. We on these and other forums are, but that is only a small representation of the customer base.
Simple point.. it isn't a primary feature to include in V 1.0 launch, I really hope they add it, but there are many other features that come before tethering. Technically you shoud be paying for tethering anyway, in addition to your wireless data plan.
From what I have read, you are mad that you would have to pay what they ask instead of circumventing that, as you have been (me too!) 8)

imaginarynumber said:
Errr....... thanks for sharing the benefit of your education...
Funnily enough I too had an education. This enables me to read posts by Brandon Watson (Director for Windows Phone 7). The same man that said that WP7 would support tethering but at the discretion of the carrier.
Regrettably my education did not include mind reading and thus I did not realise that his statement meant "WP does not support tethering but it may or may not at some point in the near or distant future"
And to which of the advertised features are you referring? How do you know that they all work perfectly? Would the advertised claim that you can "manage.. your email with ease" suffice? Well seemingly not unless you think that having to hard reset your phone in order to delete your windows live account post a typo error is perfection. Or what about the xbox live extras that have been crashing and now removed from the market place?
As consumers we expect products to improve throughout their life cycles. We want features to become better and not just be omitted. It beggars belief that you think that removing givens such as changing ringtones or tetherings is acceptable.
I agree that nobody is forcing me to buy a WP, in the same way that no recalled toyota owner was forced to by a toyota but I guess that toyota never listed non-sticking brakes as advertised features.
Just out of interest- at what point is one allowed to complain? If i wait until I purchase something do I have even less right given that i knew that it was not perfect at the point of purchase?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Resorting to sarcasm in response to a discussion is pointless. If you don't accept the input of others as valid, there is nothing left to say.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

naplesbill said:
Resorting to sarcasm in response to a discussion is pointless. If you don't accept the input of others as valid, there is nothing left to say.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The sarcasm was a response to your condescending tone. If you want to take the holier than thou higher moral ground then go for it.
As a long standing WinCE customer I have a right to vent my frustrations and disappointments.
By the same token i don't own an iphone but I retain the right to b!tch about the fact that their greed has (indirectly) fugged up my preferred phone OS.

brytonic said:
I do get your frustration and went through the same feelings.
My Tilt 2 (Rhodium) can wifi tether right now and it works great, why not the next 'evolution'?
I think the biggest reason I found it from reading forums and listening to other users is this:
We (those of us who use XDA and like to push our tech to do our bidding) want and use features such as tethering. What portion of the demographic is MS seeking here with WP7, surely a much larger base then those who live / breathe XDA yes?
There aren't thousands, heck even hundreds, of people with torches and pitchforks screaming for tethering. We on these and other forums are, but that is only a small representation of the customer base.
Simple point.. it isn't a primary feature to include in V 1.0 launch, I really hope they add it, but there are many other features that come before tethering. Technically you shoud be paying for tethering anyway, in addition to your wireless data plan.
From what I have read, you are mad that you would have to pay what they ask instead of circumventing that, as you have been (me too!) 8)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi there Brytonic
here in the Uk t-mobile are more upfront about internet charges and tethering (branded as web'n'walk). My curent contract includes free tethering whereas my previous one had a small premium for the right to tether (which I was happy to pay).
The cost of internet access only without voice is significantly higher than a voice account with web'nwalk bolted on. So if i were to buy a sim free WP the web'n'walk part of my bill would remain unchanged but I would additionally need to pay for web'n'walk for my pc
I agree that we here are only a fraction of the intended market place but it gals me that Microsoft leaked that tethering would be supported.
Am I really being unrealistic to expect a £500 phone to be able to do what my Ericsson T39 could do back in 2001 (ie work as a bluetooth modem)?
If it were the case that we had to wait for the 3g over wifi routing then I would have no problem as that is an enhancement of what I consider to be a rudimentary function.

kdj67f said:
I love lamp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL!!! Don't start!! Did "I love lamp" on Facebook and it got way into territory reserved for R18
Actually - maybe that is what this thread needs lol

Why WP7 is 'failing'.

Or rather, not doing as well as I feel it should. This is just my opinion.
The answer is whiny developers.
From the beginning, all we've heard is 'MS didn't release this API, that's why we don't have x app by y developer'. And then time and again, so small time devs give us their version of the app mysteriously not needing said API to make it happen. Sometimes, it's even Microsft themselves shooting WP7 in the foot.
I'm no dev myself but doesn't it seem strange to you that:
1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
And the list goes on. Makes you wonder if:
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
Smooth transitions and a badass UI only take you so far.
MS needs to step-up their integration as well while I'm on my soap box. WP7 really does need to be better than WM6.5 in every way except stylus support IMHO.
Sorry to any I may have pissed off with this rant but I'm jetlagged and bored right now.
Have a good day.

I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)

I don't think it is failing, its just loyal WM users are hedging about a purchase (including me) because there's not a lot that they can do with the device as of this time. I personally think MS-Nokia partnership bodes well for the platform. I imagine Nokia porting a lot of their excellent apps to the WP7 platform (OviMaps using Bing data anyone? for all i care they could just use the ovimaps platform, its good as it is). I personally think its exciting and I'm looking forward to a Nokia device running WP7.

I guess it all depends on what your looking for. I dont need google maps, the preinstalled one works for me. I call/text/email all my friends or see them weekly so I could care less for facebook. I twitter a little bit but the apps in the market are sufficient. I keep my phone on vibrate most of the time but I guess it would be nice to use on sundays.
The only part thats needs some improvements to me are the browser, multitasking and I would love a remote desktop app. Thats the 3 things from android that I miss.

otech said:
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)
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Don't get me wrong otech, I put the 'failing' in quotation marks for a reason.
I know it's doing a lot better than most expected. I just get pissed when I got to trollish blogs like engadget and see the hate spewed. I have no real loyalty to MS, just loyalty to quality which WP7 is.
It just annoys when devs say such and such can't be done, yet it is being done already.
ROI is a cop-out as they can simply make ad-based games or apps. Don't some apps make more money in Zune marketplace compared to Android marketplace?
Yet Android market share is humongous. And why do they feel the need to also publish some snide comment about how they just can't develop for WP7 because the interest isn't there? It just re-enforces my view that these devs are whiny brats.

Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.

failing?
lol, more and more of my friends are now useing wp7 phones..

I don't really see why we need conspiracy theories where there are simpler explanations.
The main problem with satnav apps is that they cannot be ported simply because there's no native code access. Sygic or TomTom or whoever will need to create and maintain a completely separate fork, with almost nothing being reused between their WP7 and all other versions. That's expensive, and with WP7's tiny userbase it just doesn't make any sense. It's very similar for hardcore games.
Microsoft could finance these projects, but for some reason they chose not to. One of the reasons may be that operators are quite happy selling their solutions for subscription. Navigon already did a satnav app for WP7, but they don't distribute it themselves.

1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
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Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
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Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
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The game sucks
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
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read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
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You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
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SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
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how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
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What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading

There is some confusion in this thread over Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.
Yes, Windows 8 will be capable of running on an ARM processor. No, it does not make sense for a full blown OS to be running on your phone, even if it can, because it doesn't make a for a good small touchscreen experience. There would always need to exist two different marketplaces.
I have not heard anything more than speculation on Windows Phone 8. But I am certain that if and ever in the near future MS were to launch WP8, it would all be part of the same ecosystem. It would be suicide in this market not to continue compatability. Obviously at some point there will need to be a cut off in forward compatability, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Not soon enough to start regretting a WP7 purchase.

Vintage144 said:
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
The game sucks
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
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Are you serious or did you just want to troll/have no reading comprehension skills?
1/. I'm not a delivery truck driver but I was trying to make my way around Germany last week and needed turn by turn navigation while trying to find a restaurant in town to eat at. I wonder what would've helped out...? Oh yeah!! Working maps outside of the US that provided voice guidance.
2/.This was about how WP7 is supposed to be FB integrated yet the apps are better on both IOS and Android. And I'm sorry you don't have friends to talk to from time to time that would make FB chat on your cell an asset since it's blocked by most offices.
3/. The issue of the whole article is devs. Not the quality of the games. Learn to read!!
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
5/. You really are a moron to not see the advantages of google voice. I have unlimited everything on my plan but that does me no good when I'm overseas, something I doubt you will ever have happen to you as I doubt people want your brand of ignorance exported.
6/. All capslocks sentences get no response.
7/. I don't think you're a dev if that's what you're implying.
8/. This makes no sense. I've never been on ATT. I don't like Android as it's a clone of 2 OS, wm 6.5 and IOS and the only other OS I've used extensively is Symbian besides wm6.5. Don't assume because you end up looking like an ass in the process.
My points are valid, devs have behaved like brats with WP7. Which has less limitations that IOS did back in the day yet they worked wonders for that OS.

lekki said:
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
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I did a search for "Touchexplorer" and Touch Explorer" in the market and didn't find any results.

rhory said:
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
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This seems quite a silly argument. Anyone with any knowledge of Microsoft history would know that it is highly unusual for them to break from a legacy platform. WP8 is likely simply be a natural iteration on the WP7 system.
To my knowledge MS has done exactly 2 legacy breaks in it's history. NT and WP7 that's it every other OS they've developed has been a evolution rather than a revolutionary break.
WP8 will just be WP7 with the NoDo and Mango updates might get some additional interface customization but I suspect it will be able to run on current WP7 handsets.
That's just the way MS does stuff. The hard compatibility break between WM6.5 and WP7 is just not business as usual for MS.
I think it's highly unlikely that any app written for WP7 won't work on WP8 when it finally materializes.

IMHO windows phone is like the iphone now. Wp8 will not kill wp7. It will be the same ecosystem and all users will be able to upgrade. Wether will it run or not on old devices i dont know but i dont think its reasonable to say they will kill everything they´ve done with wp7 next year. Windows Phone is not like Windows mobile. Forget the old microsoft. Things are different and better now (god bless competition).

Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.

I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.

pillsburydoughman said:
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
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I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.

I wouldn't say its failing but the OS is still fairly new and its a slightly new experience compared to iOS, S60, and even Android.
As time goes on, with more support and more phones from Nokia, WP7 should gain some more popularity.

lekki said:
I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
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Sorry your reply makes no sense.. and I quote
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
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Nobody cares why you bought WP7, I can only assume you bought it because you wanted one. It's not a matter of attack or defending anything, I see no reason why you're bothered that you have to "defend" your decision to purchase something.
Funny how you complain about whiny developers yet you're whining yourself.

lekki said:
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
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Even if WP8 will be W8, so what? All current APIs are managed code, applications can be transferred without even recompiling. Since there is no native code access it doesn't matter which core the OS will use.

ChevronWP7 shuts down, handsets to be re-locked in 120 days

http://wmpoweruser.com/chevronwp7-shuts-down-handsets-to-be-re-locked-in-120-days/

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1598050

What the hell man, this is just crazy what is Microsoft thinking? This will only drive more people away from the platform and will keep phone sales at the rate they are now or lower. Who in the world wants to pay $99 a year just to be able to customize a phone? I personally do currently pay the $99 but will stop soon this is just a death sentence for Windows phone, really someone over at MS gets fired over this.

do you realize that most people would not care about these stuff, and we only nerds that like to hack our phones will matter. Maybe microsoft has something better in store? possibly in apollo we will get sideloading capabilities and other power user functions.

lovenokia said:
do you realize that most people would not care about these stuff, and we only nerds that like to hack our phones will matter. Maybe microsoft has something better in store? possibly in apollo we will get sideloading capabilities and other power user functions.
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I sure hope you are right my friend. Maybe Apollo won't have all this Apple style locked down crap.

what it means, in practice?
In practice, what this means for me?
I've a Samsung WP unlocked by Chevron. So, I've installed Nokia Drive, Nokia Maps... this means that after the 120 days, theses apps won't work in my phone?

So basically MS and the Chevron team just ripped off everyone that went and bought a token? I thought the token was forever, was there ever any metntion that it would expire in the future? if not this sounds like a scam, well for those who paid. I see a law suit.

sinister1 said:
What the hell man, this is just crazy what is Microsoft thinking? This will only drive more people away from the platform and will keep phone sales at the rate they are now or lower. Who in the world wants to pay $99 a year just to be able to customize a phone? I personally do currently pay the $99 but will stop soon this is just a death sentence for Windows phone, really someone over at MS gets fired over this.
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seen the latest articles about lumia sales lately? I'll assume not since you insisted on posting this.

Side loaded apps
Like most people, I just want to know if apps already side loaded will continue to work after the tokens are revoked? If they do work, it may be possible to keep it unlocked through a Registry Editor, Root Tools etc.

sinister1 said:
So basically MS and the Chevron team just ripped off everyone that went and bought a token? I thought the token was forever, was there ever any metntion that it would expire in the future? if not this sounds like a scam, well for those who paid. I see a law suit.
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I don't see any law suits as Microsoft as offered to refund $99 and swap Chevron unlock for App Hub Developer unlock.
However, interesting thing would be how many $9 unlocks are from non-supported countries!?
Surely out of 10,000 there are at least 100 people who paid $9 and don't have access to App Hub - those can go for a law suit unless Microsoft is going to make up for it in any other fashion in a separate announcement.

sinister1 said:
So basically MS and the Chevron team just ripped off everyone that went and bought a token? I thought the token was forever, was there ever any metntion that it would expire in the future? if not this sounds like a scam, well for those who paid. I see a law suit.
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Yeah, I'm pissed that I was only renting the unlocker....this was definitely a hose job....these dudes are re-locking already paid for phones.

Side-loaded apps will probably cease to work, just as they do if you were to relock your device now.

quicoli said:
In practice, what this means for me?
I've a Samsung WP unlocked by Chevron. So, I've installed Nokia Drive, Nokia Maps... this means that after the 120 days, theses apps won't work in my phone?
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Yes, probably lol.
Pathetic.

MSFT is giving away free APP HUB accounts for these users. Is no one else reading it?
Sent from my TITAN X310e using Board Express

....the app hub is yearly, so we got a year long account for $9...what was I complaining about
/sarcasm.

quicoli said:
In practice, what this means for me?
I've a Samsung WP unlocked by Chevron. So, I've installed Nokia Drive, Nokia Maps... this means that after the 120 days, theses apps won't work in my phone?
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You're one of the people who make me disgusted at this community. Nokia apps (and other OEM apps) are device specific. You need to buy those devices to get those apps, as those apps on other devices is called stealing. Yet, this entire community insists they are entitled to things they have never paid for... Most of you don't want these accounts to "develop" or contribute, you want these accounts to sideload apps you have no way of paying for/getting.

FiyaFleye said:
You're one of the people who make me disgusted at this community. Nokia apps (and other OEM apps) are device specific. You need to buy those devices to get those apps, as those apps on other devices is called stealing. Yet, this entire community insists they are entitled to things they have never paid for... Most of you don't want these accounts to "develop" or contribute, you want these accounts to sideload apps you have no way of paying for/getting.
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My point! Thanks!! Hence $9 for whatever time it was unlocked for + a year of sideloading stuff (not developing anything) - more than enough!

I don't mind the side loading. I mind the people coming in here to ***** about not having any way to load stolen software into their phone... Its just pathetic. I would understand if you're developing your ass off, but you're stealing... C'mon...
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

i did the chevron unlock than used the interlop unlock will i be affected ?

FiyaFleye said:
You're one of the people who make me disgusted at this community. Nokia apps (and other OEM apps) are device specific. You need to buy those devices to get those apps, as those apps on other devices is called stealing. Yet, this entire community insists they are entitled to things they have never paid for... Most of you don't want these accounts to "develop" or contribute, you want these accounts to sideload apps you have no way of paying for/getting.
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I could be wrong, but didn't Nokia release these apps in the earlier versions for other non-Nokia devices? Of course (now) Nokia is claiming that their updated apps will be only for Nokia devices. Not condoning piracy here, but I don't see a problem with side loading device specific apps on other Windows Phones. These apps are free to the the users anyway right? -Well most of them... As we all know, each manufacturer has its own collection of apps for their devices. -And we can all agree there are apps that are better than others in each manufacturer app store. If the apps are free, I find it a little ridiculous to say that Windows Phone users would have to go and buy a certain WP just to be able to use a device for a specific free app on their phone. -Now if each manufacturer released their apps to EVERY WP device with the apps being free for that specific device and had a paid version for non-specific devices, my argument would be irrelevant here. -But we know this is not the case.
Anyway, yes I do agree somewhat that some users want their phones dev unlocked just to sideload apps that they themselves didn't develop or buy, but I have to say that I believe some/most members here on XDA contribute to some form or fashion to the development/modding/hacking phone world. I myself became a Windows Mobile/Phone developer because I was amazed at what I could do with my phone when I first started getting into flashing roms for Windows Mobile. I kept on coming back to this forum to see what I could do next with my phone. I finally realized that I couldn't wait for the next thing to come out for my phone, so I started learning the development side of the phone. As the years kept rolling on, I became very familiar with the development process and even made quite a bit of money on my apps. -So the point is, calling people out on wanting the dev unlocks just to sideload restricted apps on their phones is sort of unfair. You and I do not know the motives of the other users on this forum.