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Below is just my opinion, and take it as such.
Windows 7 dissapoints me beyond belief. In fact, teverything about it is the "worst case scenario".
<rant>
1. Home page.. I can sum it up in "WTF". The home page that takes up about 80% of the screen (so even big screens look gimped, small and shifted to the side), with a huge area on right and up completely wasted for nothing. Ugly plain-colored squares, with no design consistency (big, small, long, tall) with pieces of information that make no sense.
2. Social networking - as for me, I really don't give a flying turd about my neighbor's ugly kid drawing an image of a bird on the wall with his drool. Nor do I care that much about viewing hundreds of pictures of my friend visiting his grandma. Thanks for covering my home screen with that.
3. Xbox - I don't even have an xbox, nor do I plan to buy one. Neither do most of the business-oriented people who buy a PDA. And even if I did, would I really be so obsessed about my "avatar" or "points" or whatever they use, that I need it on my home page?
4. Emailing - the heart of a PDA. For some people, even more important than the calling itself. By looking at the presentation videos 7's email system is complete trash. It gives you no real "sense" for the inbox, there is no good view to browse your emails properly. Swiping through pages to see "flagged" "unread" on different screens creates a feeling that you're not getting the whole picture, and you're missing stuff. Besides, it has no good integration with contacts that HTC's Sense provides pretty darn well.
5. Interface in general - animation effects blow. They are kind-of OK for today's standards, but when 7 is released, they will already be boring and plain. They are not looking forward, the "flow" of it is already outdated and will be completely destroyed by any new interface that Android or especially Apple will no-doubt deliver in near future. Besides, how awesome it is to see parts of words all the time? "Peop" turns into "ople", so if you slide left-and-right real fast, you can actually see a whole word..... freaking idiotic.
6. Customization... I'm just speechless. This is the only thing that I could raise as WM's, perhaps, only advantage over Android and iPhone. Now they are officially going over to the Apple's way of treating customers like money-packed down-syndrome drooling kids that fall into a seizure when they hear words "cab" or "tweak". After hanging in xda-developers for so long, and writing my own stuff for the PDA, this alone is way more than enough to make me never even look at WM devices again.
7. "Copy and paste" and "multitasking".... I cannot believe that there is even a controversy over WM device having those 2 features... I don't even know what else to say about this. Insane.
Microsoft is obviously a huge Apple fanboy now. They are accepting their market strategies and their development practices and are scared ****less to look ahead and develop something brilliant.
At this point, with current info, WM7 is nothing more than a bad, extremely poorly designed iPhone interface mod. It's already outdated, already looks inefficient, boring and just waiting to be forgotten. Heck, age-old HTC Home plugin looks way better than WM7, and is actually more useful for everyday tasks.
</rant>
Flame away.
Sadly I couldn't agree more... I had been waiting for the mytical complete revamping of the Windows Mobile OS, and when the first real info came out in Spain, I was stoked by what they were presenting (although I couldn't understand the oddly offset homescreen squares)... This week has been nothing but disappointment after disappointment It seems they took all the bad plays out of the iphone playbook (which apple has mostly since corrected) and decided to repeat them. I was hoping for an windows 'iphone' that righted all the wrongs of Apple:
-Controlled Interfaces (both in Syncronizing information with PC and in application installs)
-Real Copy and Paste
-File System
-Use as a USB flash Drive when connected to computer
-Removeable media
Windows Mobile, was ugly and slow, but useful once you knew it. I just feel now that this will be pretty, but no better than a 1G iphone
i dont disagree with any of your points
Yes, I also agree. Microsoft has just threw out everything, that was keeping Windows Mobile different, usable and customizable. I use copy&paste, multitasking and today plugins every day and I can't live without it. I won't use Windows Phone 7, I'd better wait if somebody makes a mobile phone running full desktop Windows (I think it will be someday, now we have HD2 with 1GHz CPU and we are also able to boot Ubuntu on HTC devices).
Microsoft is mitigating all of the flaws of Windows Mobile. You anti-WP7 guys seem to be forgeting that the WM platform was quickly becoming a marketplace failure. Whether you like iPhone or not, there are plenty of things Apple did right (which is why they're kicking a** right now). If you want to call modern smartphone users dumb, then you have to realize that the entire general public is "dumb" and "dumb" people is where the money is. Tech geeks are just not a large enough market to build a platform around. I bet in a few years, Android will become the NEW Windows Mobile (and I mean that in a bad way )
I for one, love the way MS is now focused on user-experience and integration (hubs) as opposed to a bunch of unrelated apps. I was wishing for that long before I knew what a iPhone or WP7 was.
Apple's idea of tying together all of it's products is a winning strategy. MS is the only company that can top Apple at this particular strategy: Zune, XBox, Office, Exchange, FaceBook (MS owns a huge share) and etc.. They have already opened up the platform for development even though the phone isn't even released yet.
MS seems to be really focused on people that actually use their phones to enhance their lives, as opposed to people using their lives to enhance their phones. Good job MS!
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is mitigating all of the flaws of Windows Mobile. You anti-WP7 guys seem to be forgeting that the WM platform was quickly becoming a marketplace failure. Whether you like iPhone or not, there are plenty of things Apple did right (which is why they're kicking a** right now). If you want to call modern smartphone users dumb, then you have to realize that the entire general public is "dumb" and "dumb" people is where the money is. Tech geeks are just not a large enough market to build a platform around.
I for one, love the way MS is now focused on user-experience and integration (hubs) as opposed to a bunch of unrelated apps. I was wishing for that long before I knew what a iPhone or WP7 was.
Apple's idea of tying together all of it's products is a winning strategy. MS is the only company that can top Apple at this particular strategy: Zune, XBox, Office, Exchange, FaceBook (MS owns a huge share) and etc.. They have already opened up the platform for development even though the phone isn't even released yet.
MS seems to be really focused on people that actually use their phones to enhance their lives, as opposed to people using their lives to enhance their phones. Good job MS!
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Click to collapse
Whether MS is taking the most profitable approach or not, is a different topic. I do agree that majority of users are "dumb" and freak out at anything that takes more than 5 clicks to do. However, I HIGHLY doubt they can catch on to Apple and give simple users a better experience than iPhone already gives. If we consider the release timeframe, and high possibility of iPhone 2, MS has picked a wrong battle and will fail miserably while we all laugh our asses off at the fugly interface that WM7 has.
However, I'm speaking from my own perspective, and what *I* want and need in a phone. Fortunately for me, WM, even having worst interface ever (thankfully fixed by HTC), still catered to all my tweaking/developing needs. I'd even say to the needs of the majority of people at xda - this is a developer forum after all, not an Apple fan-club.
And from that I can assume that the approach that MS is taking will make "advanced" users like me and people here at xda to feel like MS has failed them and abandoned them, turning to "dumb users". And that never feels good.
DarkDvr said:
Whether MS is taking the most profitable approach or not, is a different topic. I do agree that majority of users are "dumb" and freak out at anything that takes more than 5 clicks to do. However, I HIGHLY doubt they can catch on to Apple and give simple users a better experience than iPhone already gives. If we consider the release timeframe, and high possibility of iPhone 2, MS has picked a wrong battle and will fail miserably while we all laugh our asses off at the fugly interface that WM7 has.
However, I'm speaking from my own perspective, and what *I* want and need in a phone. Fortunately for me, WM, even having worst interface ever (thankfully fixed by HTC), still catered to all my tweaking/developing needs. I'd even say to the needs of the majority of people at xda - this is a developer forum after all, not an Apple fan-club.
And from that I can assume that the approach that MS is taking will make "advanced" users like me and people here at xda to feel like MS has failed them and abandoned them, turning to "dumb users". And that never feels good.
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Click to collapse
I actually love the new WP7 interface...giant words, big active tiles and all. I had Sense in my TP2 for about a month and finally decided that while it was pretty looking, it was not efficient at all. To much pressing and swiping to get to where I needed to go. Back to Titanium for me.
I think in due time, there will be a hacking community around WP7 just like this one...maybe even THIS one
Advanced users can fend for themselves. Isn't this how XDA grew? I'm sure it'll happen again with WP7.
iPhone 2 ? Naw, I think Apple has shot it's load and is just going to work on building and maintaining the market it has. I don't expect anything revolutionary out of Apple for a while (at least as far as smartphones go). I don't think they'll do what MS did and ditch the old iPhone for a new iPhone platform. MS was sort of forced to ditch WM if they wanted to compete.
WhyBe said:
I actually love the new WP7 interface...giant words, big active tiles and all. I had Sense in my TP2 for about a month and finally decided that while it was pretty looking, it was not efficient at all. To much pressing and swiping to get to where I needed to go. Back to Titanium for me.
I think in due time, there will be a hacking community around WP7 just like this one...maybe even THIS one
Advanced users can fend for themselves. Isn't this how XDA grew? I'm sure it'll happen again with WP7.
iPhone 2 ? Naw, I think Apple has shot it's load and is just going to work on building and maintaining the market it has. I don't expect anything revolutionary out of Apple for a while (at least as far as smartphones go). I don't think they'll do what MS did and ditch the old iPhone for a new iPhone platform. MS was sort of forced to ditch WM if they wanted to compete.
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Well, in BEST case scenario (for MS), that's what will happen. However, for me, that's wishful thinking.
Will there be WM7 hacks? Yeah, of course. Question is, how easy/available/useful they will be. WM6 platform, even with all its deficiencies, is a nice and easy platform to tweak/expand. So far, WM7 looks to be complete opposite of that (just look at their idea of branding and marketplace), and few hacks that will be released won't make up for anything. Especially when 90% of all developers will switch to a more friendly platform (perhaps even Android).
DarkDvr said:
Especially when 90% of all developers will switch to a more friendly platform (perhaps even Android).
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I, personally would want to develop for a platform where I can turn a profit. Is Android at that stage yet (I'm asking, I don't know). If Android is so open and customizable the way WM was/is, then inevitably it's going to suffer the same fate as WM.
It seems that MS is making WP7 very developer friendly. What's wrong with developing for WP7 ?
WhyBe said:
I, personally would want to develop for a platform where I can turn a profit. Is Android at that stage yet (I'm asking, I don't know). If Android is so open and customizable the way WM was/is, then inevitably it's going to suffer the same fate as WM.
It seems that MS is making WP7 very developer friendly. What's wrong with developing for WP7 ?
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Android isn't going anywhere. It may not be as explosive as iPhone, but it's here to stay, if google does it right. And google pretty much always does everything right.
Problem with programming for WM7, and I'm going on a limited info that's curretly available, is that MS is putting down a "draconic" ((c) engadget) restrictions on anything that comes onto WM7 devices. Everything has to be within standards and everything has to go through the marketplace. In fact, reviewers are saying that methods that MS is implementing on WM7 infrastructure are much more strict that even Apple's. That spells "BAD NEWS" for me in big, bold letters.
DarkDvr said:
Android isn't going anywhere. It may not be as explosive as iPhone, but it's here to stay, if google does it right. And google pretty much always does everything right.
Problem with programming for WM7, and I'm going on a limited info that's curretly available, is that MS is putting down a "draconic" ((c) engadget) restrictions on anything that comes onto WM7 devices. Everything has to be within standards and everything has to go through the marketplace. In fact, reviewers are saying that methods that MS is implementing on WM7 infrastructure are much more strict that even Apple's. That spells "BAD NEWS" for me in big, bold letters.
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This is the only way to ensure that the "dumb" consumers get a great experience. The average consumer doesn't want to tweak and figure out things. They want to quickly download intuitive apps that just work. Perhaps MS will be able to minimize "garbage apps" (though there are bound to be some). Look at the success of the App store. I think part of it's success is that their app store wasn't so fragmented like the WM market is. One place to download and purchase all apps for the platform (straight to the phone at that!) is a lot easier than endlessly Googling to find what you need on some random site. Again, this is catering to the "dumb" people and not the geeks.
WhyBe said:
This is the only way to ensure that the "dumb" consumers get a great experience. The average consumer doesn't want to tweak and figure out things. They want to quickly download intuitive apps that just work. Perhaps MS will be able to minimize "garbage apps" (though there are bound to be some). Look at the success of the App store. I think part of it's success is that their app store wasn't so fragmented like the WM market is. One place to download and purchase all apps for the platform (straight to the phone at that!) is a lot easier than Googling for an hour to find what you need on some random site. Again, this is catering to the "dumb" people and not the geeks.
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Yep, I won't argue that simplicity of use is paramount. However, I do see a trend of separation between regular users and developers.
And, although I do agree that developers seeking profit will develop on the most used platform, there is a also a huge factor of developers not wanting to use a device that limits their desire for customization.
I guess the question is which of those factors will overpower another. And will we have to buy 2 devices - one for "work", one for the "soul"
DarkDvr said:
Yep, I won't argue that simplicity of use is paramount. However, I do see a trend of separation between regular users and developers.
And, although I do agree that developers seeking profit will develop on the most used platform, there is a also a huge factor of developers not wanting to use a device that limits their desire for customization.
I guess the question is which of those factors will overpower another. And will we have to buy 2 devices - one for "work", one for the "soul"
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Click to collapse
I think the industry is headed towards the user-friendly way of doing things. Hackers will fend for themselves (as always). Smartphones are only going to get more popular to the point where they are as common as the regular cell phone. A typical WM device could never support that kind of market. Only devices like WP7, iPhone, Pre and etc. will be appealing to this huge market of non-geeks.
WhyBe said:
I think the industry is headed towards the user-friendly way of doing things. Hackers will fend for themselves (as always). Smartphones are only going to get more popular to the point where they are as common as the regular cell phone. A typical WM device could never support that kind of market. Only devices like WP7, iPhone, Pre and etc. will be appealing to this huge market of non-geeks.
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And that's excellent. However, that doesn't mean that the device should be "locked" and limited to modification. The idea behind the android is probably the most appealing to me - it's a very user-friendly interface that is completely open to any modification, including the end-user modification like moving stuff around, throwing widgets on the screen, etc.
In my mind, my perfect WM7 would be:
1. Build on a new platform, now the WinCE crap that gave us WM6.
2. Be very open to modification and adjustment, hopefully even moreso than WM6.
3. Not be locked in any way, allowing advanced users to tinker with devices.
4. For end users, come with an excellent user interface straight from the box. Openness to tinkering and ease of use are NOT mutually exclusive, they go hand-in-hand very well.
5. Platform absolutely must support all options available - meaning things like SDcard support, copy/paste, DEFINITELY multitasking (WTF, back to stone ages??), etc. Even though first phones might not have it all, there should be an existing support for it, so that companies/developers can take advantage of them.
I guess my ranting is due to the fact that Microsoft saw "gold" in Apple's ideas and went overboard with that. Along the way they completely ignored to include the potential into the device. Think of the military - you create, say, a tank - even if it's super-awesome today, if there is no room for potential improvements - it's a pile of useless metal in several years.
DarkDvr said:
And that's excellent. However, that doesn't mean that the device should be "locked" and limited to modification. The idea behind the android is probably the most appealing to me - it's a very user-friendly interface that is completely open to any modification, including the end-user modification like moving stuff around, throwing widgets on the screen, etc.
In my mind, my perfect WM7 would be:
1. Build on a new platform, now the WinCE crap that gave us WM6.
2. Be very open to modification and adjustment, hopefully even moreso than WM6.
3. Not be locked in any way, allowing advanced users to tinker with devices.
4. For end users, come with an excellent user interface straight from the box. Openness to tinkering and ease of use are NOT mutually exclusive, they go hand-in-hand very well.
5. Platform absolutely must support all options available - meaning things like SDcard support, copy/paste, DEFINITELY multitasking (WTF, back to stone ages??), etc. Even though first phones might not have it all, there should be an existing support for it, so that companies/developers can take advantage of them.
I guess my ranting is due to the fact that Microsoft saw "gold" in Apple's ideas and went overboard with that. Along the way they completely ignored to include the potential into the device. Think of the military - you create, say, a tank - even if it's super-awesome today, if there is no room for potential improvements - it's a pile of useless metal in several years.
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Well, we don't know what's truly under the hood of WP7 yet. We know it has multitasking, it is just highly restricted. Copy and paste can be implemented within the app (MS'es alternative to C&P seem pretty slick though). I don't see WP7 as a blatant copy of Apple, MS just acknowledged some winning points of the iPhone platform and followed suit and improved upon it (that's smart business actually). I think MS concept of the OS is far more advanced than what iPhone delivers. I think the Pre and WP7 are the first of the "new style" of OS'es. Android sort of reminds me of WM.
Again, I think all of the customization and openness hinders the platform because you end up with so many incompatibilities and inconsistencies in the user experience. Even HTC Sense "broke" alot of the things I was used to in the standard WM interface (MS Voice Command and PhonEx just didn't work properly or consistently, for example). God only knows what would "break" if I installed some other WM shell.
I love the premise in WP7 that apps are supposed to work together. I don't know how this is going to play out in the real world, but if this is facilitated at the OS level, I don't see why it shouldn't be a great feature.
Some of the so-called Apple limitations are actually advantages for them (single form factor, only one App store highly regulated, lo-res graphics for speed, locked-in iPod/iTunes audience, no multitasking to possibly damage the user-experience).
If an experience on a platform is going to be consistent and pleasurable, it has to be highly controlled. You can't have a free-for-all and expect everything to just work together nicely. WM and Android are perfect examples of free-for-all, let's see how they do in the current market.
Locked down OS?
Time for the next generation of hackers.
Get out the sharpening stone and hone your edge.
A system is meant to be broken, not remain intact.
Go XDA
Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't share yours though:
WhyBe said:
I think the Pre and WP7 are the first of the "new style" of OS'es.
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I don't see anything that's "new style" about it. Cut words, ugly squares, "pushable" buttons look identical to the labels, which creates confusion.. etc etc.
WhyBe said:
Again, I think all of the customization and openness hinders the platform because you end up with so many incompatibilities and inconsistencies in the user experience. ...
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So it's better not to have any at all? It's like saying "oh, we should have just 3 models of cars on the market, so that everything's consistent and buyers won't be confused". Openness and customization only help any platform greatly, it doesn't create incompatibilities and inconsistencies. Bad programmers do.
WhyBe said:
I love the premise in WP7 that apps are supposed to work together. I don't know how this is going to play out in the real world, but if this is facilitated at the OS level, I don't see why it shouldn't be a great feature.
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Click to collapse
You're missing a word.. "I love the premise in WP7, that MICROSOFT'S apps are supposed to work together." We all know how bad their software can be, and now u won't even have a chance to fix it. Sit around for years, hoping that new version will fix the bugs and not introduce a mirriad of others.
WhyBe said:
Some of the so-called Apple limitations are actually advantages for them (single form factor, only one App store highly regulated, lo-res graphics for speed, locked-in iPod/iTunes audience, no multitasking to possibly damage the user-experience).
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Dude you're so anti-choice. I have a very different view. Choice is what creates competition and improvement. It's what drives the progress. Single form-factors, locked software, penalties for tinkering (jailbreak) - it all hinders the progress, it cannot possibly be better.
WhyBe said:
If an experience on a platform is going to be consistent and pleasurable, it has to be highly controlled. You can't have a free-for-all and expect everything to just work together nicely. WM and Android are perfect examples of free-for-all, let's see how they do in the current market.
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Click to collapse
Openness of current WM platform is about the only plus it has, not its drawback. I think that's pretty much established.
Besides, as I've said before, you don't have to pick between a smooth experience and openness for customization. WM7 could have an excellent setup right from the box, if you like what they've made, even maybe the one they have now. Nobody says that at the same time it cannot have support for developer's imagination. Nobody besides MS's analytics who decided that copying Apple will bring them a big buck. Honestly, no, it won't.
chiks19018 said:
Locked down OS?
Time for the next generation of hackers.
Get out the sharpening stone and hone your edge.
A system is meant to be broken, not remain intact.
Go XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
>.< That's not the point.
DarkDvr said:
So it's better not to have any at all? It's like saying "oh, we should have just 3 models of cars on the market, so that everything's consistent and buyers won't be confused". Openness and customization only help any platform greatly, it doesn't create incompatibilities and inconsistencies. Bad programmers do.
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All consumer cars have the exact same interface. Steering, acceleration and brakes...
You're missing a word.. "I love the premise in WP7, that MICROSOFT'S apps are supposed to work together." We all know how bad their software can be, and now u won't even have a chance to fix it. Sit around for years, hoping that new version will fix the bugs and not introduce a mirriad of others.
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I haven't had experience with BAD MS software. It's always worked for me. Now the third-party stuff...that's a different story. If things like social networking and cloud computing are implemented on the OS level (instead in the app), it will be easier for third party apps to work in conjunction. Bing on the OS level will be a lot better than a Bing app. Same for Voice Command (if MS uses it).
Dude you're so anti-choice. I have a very different view. Choice is what creates competition and improvement. It's what drives the progress. Single form-factors, locked software, penalties for tinkering (jailbreak) - it all hinders the progress, it cannot possibly be better.
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This philosophy is failing WM and Android.
WhyBe said:
I haven't had experience with BAD MS software.
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Then you've never used Windows ME or anything before Windows 98.
Let's just agree to disagree =)
See the linked article http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/windows_phone_7_sales/
WP7 doesn't appear to be doing very well. So many people want this to fail it amazes me!
That's truly sad. I'm actually a bit disappointed with the advertisements from Microsoft. Sure, the ads are broad casted a lot but there aren't any catchy ones like the iPod silhouettes and what not. MS needs to step it up when it comes to appealing to consumers through ads otherwise it'll be hard to dent the Androids hold over the smartphone marketshare.
Same here in France, with this article from a famous french magazine LE POINT: "What's wrong with WP7" (google translation)
http://translate.google.fr/translat...-qui-cloche-22-11-2010-1265610_47.php&act=url
Articles underlines some missing features when readers in the comments mainly insist on:
- the fact that WP7 is too locked, especially compared to Android
- WP7 is not designed for business
I guess that if it doesn't do well, those of us who have a wp7 device are going to be part of a pretty exclusive club! Still there is time yet, if MS produce the updates which add the missing features that all the naysayers continually whinge about and go up a gear on their marketing campaign WP7 will fly - it is too good a product not to!
I don't have a magic boll but I think that all of this will change in a couple of months
adesonic said:
I guess that if it doesn't do well, those of us who have a wp7 device are going to be part of a pretty exclusive club! Still there is time yet, if MS produce the updates which add the missing features that all the naysayers continually whinge about and go up a gear on their marketing campaign WP7 will fly - it is too good a product not to!
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Click to collapse
It is reported that MS is in it for the win. I can only believe such criticisms will spur MS on to ever higher efforts. I agree, too, that most of the criticisms are about the lacking features. This will change when those features are added. I know I love the system but almost gave up on it...I was livid actually...when I saw it didn't have common voice nav. The copy & paste and multitasking, I was aware of it not having. But the voice nav, I wasn't aware of. It rocked me badly. I can only imagine what the general, unknowing, public might be feeling about the system...without all of these features.
I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.
HTC deserve to fail for their mediocre WP7 devices. MS doesnt, but sadly they are depending on these hardwaremanufaturers.
nizzon said:
HTC deserve to fail for their mediocre WP7 devices. MS doesnt, but sadly they are depending on these hardwaremanufaturers.
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please tell me what is wrong with my hd7 ?
The press has pretty much written off Microsoft as a whole already. They need somebody to bark at and somebody to adore, if they aren't opinionated nobody will read their stuff.
twisted89 said:
I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.
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the hd2 was never in line for it MS has always said that this is a stupid argument the hd7 may have similar specs but the hd7 is a vast improvment in design
Everyone is always bashing MS but that's not stopped them they new that the haters would come but so to are the updates and tbh if less ppl have one then the more ppl there are who will be amazed when they see mine
WP7 is too important for Microsoft for them to give up on it. It's their only mobile platform that ties all of their online services together. If they want to compete with Google WP7 has to succeed. Microsoft can't afford for to let everyone use an Android phone with cloud services and search services all going to Google.
For those that are worried about bad press remember people said the same thing about the xbox when it came out and it's been a success despite having a horrible track record with hardware failures.
WP7 is a long term strategy for Microsoft. Poor sales in the beginning is hardly anything to worry about it.
lumpaywk said:
the hd2 was never in line for it MS has always said that this is a stupid argument the hd7 may have similar specs but the hd7 is a vast improvment in design
Everyone is always bashing MS but that's not stopped them they new that the haters would come but so to are the updates and tbh if less ppl have one then the more ppl there are who will be amazed when they see mine
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vast improvement in design? how exactly? they moved a couple of buttons around!
There is no vast improvement in design but the simple answer is the hd2 doesn't meet the button requirements for WP7. There's no exceptions to the rules Microsoft has laid out.
twisted89 said:
vast improvement in design? how exactly? they moved a couple of buttons around!
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ceesheim said:
please tell me what is wrong with my hd7 ?
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Maybe nothing wrong with yours, but I'm on my 4th one. The first one had data reception problems. The second one had dead pixels all over the screen and at the perfect angle you could see scuff marks on the screen. The third one had trash under the screen, on top of the actual LCD. There were tiny specks of something on it.
I always thought my HD2 was exceptional for quality, and it is. But I have not had fortune with HTC's latest offerings.
adesonic said:
Seems the press are already writing off WP7
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Them again. And how many journalists are experts in anything?
The reports are just the typical anti-ms nonsense from the media...here in Canada it's hard to find the Samsung focus...the US launched with far fewer devices than demand.
MS is in for the long road...let's remember android for the first 2 years...
vangrieg said:
The press has pretty much written off Microsoft as a whole already. They need somebody to bark at and somebody to adore, if they aren't opinionated nobody will read their stuff.
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It's getting to the stage where the Microsoft-bashing is beyond the joke.
Journos and many other people in the media are Apple supporters simply because it's the platform on which they create, design and produce their content. This is mostly due to the fact that Microsoft were years behind MacOS in regards to graphic design and publication software in the 90s. Apple is still deeply encroached, despite the fact that Windows has since caught up with, and arguably overtaken, Apple's ability in that industry.
However, the other 99% of the world is very happily using Microsoft products. I don't use Office because I have to; I use it because, to me, it's a damn sight better than any comparable product. I don't use Windows 7 because I have to; I use it because, to me, it's a damn sight better than MacOS or any other flavour of Unix / Linux. And I've started using Windows Phone 7 because, to me, it's a damn sight better than WM 6.5, Apple iOS, Android, Blackberry or any of the others out there at the moment.
You really just need two things for WP7 to succeed; it needs to be good, and it needs to be relentlessly promoted.
Microsoft have relentlessly promoted terrible products in the past, and they have naturally failed (case in point: Microsoft Bob). However, they relentlessly promoted XBOX for years as well, even when in the beginning it was a less-than-strong platform. But it's just as well they did, because now it's bloody brilliant and we have new technologies like Kinect to play with.
At the end of the day, the great news here is that WP7 is actually good; and since the WP7 platform is the future home of Microsoft's silverlight technology, and a main branch of their XBOX development, you can be sure as hell they will keep promoting it until it succeeds.
twisted89 said:
I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was a pretty crappy move, but that is more of an HTC crime, not MSFT.
The new WP7 is a good platform, but only in some ways.
MS does make a 'brand-new' OS, however, since its launch, there are these 2 questions from the consumers:
1) From the current iOS and Android users: 'Its functions is almost the same, but my phone(iphone) display is much prettier and more apps, why should I change?'
2) From the current WM users: 'Geez, lots of functions that we like are now gone, no file explorer, no tethering, no mass storage mode, no copy&paste, can't remove storage-card, have to have a live-ID, etc etc.... I might as well just wait til the first update and see....'
The phone manufacturers has invested tons of money to make up phones for WM7, however, the response from the market is nothing close to expectation, if there's no breakthrough on the up coming update from MS, manufacturers like HTC and samsung might also hold on to the WM7 platform too.
To write off a product, you don't need the press, or experts, the consumer market does.
We get that you don't like WP7, you come in here daily stating it for no reason that I can see. I certainly don't see it benefiting anyone or changing anyones minds. When I look in the android general section I don't see a bunch of WP7 fans in there posting about the (many) faults of the OS. What about Windows could possibly bring about so much hate except perhaps jealousy? I just don't see the reason why anyone wants to come in here over and over again more or less neglecting their own devices forum to bash on an OS most of them have never used. If you have a WP7 device and want to come bash it then whatever but really... no need for all this senseless hatred...
Well, I like it
Because alot of the people you speak of are not android or apple fans yet. They are still weighing their options of which os and phone is better. And when a android or apple user tell them whats wrong and what features are missing. The wp7 pole jockers start to get their feelings hurt, because the phone will eventually have the updates but dont. Thats my 2 cents.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Fear
These people you speak of do not like MS for whatever personal reasons. The thought that something like WP7 might be successful irritates the heck out of them. They fear that MS will be successful and it drives them crazy, so they post hateful messages in hopes that someone, anyone, will agree with them and reinforce their hope that MS will fail. Childish, immature, unrealistic, misguided, and, quite frankly, kind of disturbing.
z33dev33l said:
We get that you don't like WP7, you come in here daily stating it for no reason that I can see. I certainly don't see it benefiting anyone or changing anyones minds. When I look in the android general section I don't see a bunch of WP7 fans in there posting about the (many) faults of the OS. What about Windows could possibly bring about so much hate except perhaps jealousy? I just don't see the reason why anyone wants to come in here over and over again more or less neglecting their own devices forum to bash on an OS most of them have never used. If you have a WP7 device and want to come bash it then whatever but really... no need for all this senseless hatred...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What "hate"?...... hate is a pretty strong word for an inanimate object, if your talking about the many shortcomings of WP7 that are constantly pointed out, so what, they need to be pointed out and *****ed about otherwise MS won't change them.
There's probably an element of teasing people because of funny threads like you started about how you've never been so impressed with an OS, with many silly words like "love" and "beautiful" used and how it's so much smoother than whatever, if having smooth swiping and scrolling is your total requirement for a mobile OS, don't get upset when others think it isn't.
Don't assume everybody who says anything negative about WP7 is an Android user, a lot of them are long time PPC/WM users and have probably lost more than you've gained with WP7, it's their right as a customer to bleat all they want, people can say WP7 is not a replacement for WM all they like, fact is, it's being marketed and sold as one by Microsoft.....and it ain't....not even close.
People that are getting all bitter and twisted over others negative comments, need to step back and accept that XDA is a public forum moderated by users trying to be impartial, and if you don't like it, my suggestion is to start your own WP7 enthusiasts forum where you can moderate all negativity to your hearts desire....maybe a yahoo group or something where you can vet users thoroughly before allowing them into your little happy world etc.
"Try it, before you criticize it", yet every post I've read in here where someone has, and then they are pointing out it's shortcomings, WP7 defenders start saying inane things like....you should have known, and.......go back to your beloved android, honestly, this forum is like reading a commentary of primary school life or something these days, it used to be great, now it seems like some sort of perverted amusement value where no one can accept that someone else has different wants or requirements, and start using ridiculous terms like jealousy...hate...love...beauty...trolls....fanboys on and on....pretty bizarre [if not amusing] reading considering handhelds are being discussed.
edit> Fear, there's another one.
Carry on.
gerryjoson said:
People that are getting all bitter and twisted over others negative comments, need to step back and accept that XDA is a public forum moderated by users trying to be impartial, and if you don't like it, my suggestion is to start your own WP7 enthusiasts forum where you can moderate all negativity to your hearts desire....maybe a yahoo group or something where you can vet users thoroughly before allowing them into your little happy world etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
verdict is reached
So essentially it should be like WM6.5 (a failed OS regardless of what the members here say) or bust because its made by a company who in the early 2000s wanted to put out a phone that had some computer functionality and havent changed it much since? I loved WM primarily because I COULD modify the UI to something beautiful and I could always update it with the latest version of some UI replacement and I could do all this but at the end of the day it's nice to have a phone that just works from the start without a stylus or lag or anything. After owning a veritable ton of smartphones I can honestly say that with the WP7 I dont feel that I need to mod it to make it amazing. Yeah, it lacks a few basic features but I think it more than makes up for it in the areas it excels. I understand that not everyones going to like it. Some people are concerned with physical customizations I've personally not seen a UI so smooth before so I dont need any physical changes. However, more often than not if someone posts a thread like "I want to get a WP7" or something like that trolls will flock to the thread and try and pull them to android. I mean its not a big deal for some but some of us cant stand fragmentation. It's annoying and its an issue you'd think they wouldve addressed prior to this. If people want WM 6.5 its there. For those of us who want something newer that actually has a chance in the smartphone world, WP7 is there.
z33dev33l said:
So essentially it should be like WM6.5 (a failed OS regardless of what the members here say) or bust because its made by a company who in the early 2000s wanted to put out a phone that had some computer functionality and havent changed it much since? I loved WM primarily because I COULD modify the UI to something beautiful and I could always update it with the latest version of some UI replacement and I could do all this but at the end of the day it's nice to have a phone that just works from the start without a stylus or lag or anything. After owning a veritable ton of smartphones I can honestly say that with the WP7 I dont feel that I need to mod it to make it amazing. Yeah, it lacks a few basic features but I think it more than makes up for it in the areas it excels. I understand that not everyones going to like it. Some people are concerned with physical customizations I've personally not seen a UI so smooth before so I dont need any physical changes. However, more often than not if someone posts a thread like "I want to get a WP7" or something like that trolls will flock to the thread and try and pull them to android. I mean its not a big deal for some but some of us cant stand fragmentation. It's annoying and its an issue you'd think they wouldve addressed prior to this. If people want WM 6.5 its there. For those of us who want something newer that actually has a chance in the smartphone world, WP7 is there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest about mine does this and yours doesn't, you asked the question, why so much hate, and I was giving reasons I thought were probably relevant apart from the extremely popular Android users conspiracy theory.
I don't really understand why you started this thread when you think you already know the answer, what was it ever going to achieve for you apart from more negativity for something you like?
XDA's official Galaxy S hater.
Location: Austin, Texas.
/thread
JoLLAJoLLA said:
XDA's official Galaxy S hater.
Location: Austin, Texas.
/thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what a waste of a post. What does this prove except that you can read???
nrfitchett4 said:
what a waste of a post. What does this prove except that you can read???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it proves that the OP is a hypocrite as he is a Galaxy S hater. Your inability to extract this information from my post is tragically disappointing.
JoLLAJoLLA said:
Well, it proves that the OP is a hypocrite as he is a Galaxy S hater. Your inability to extract this information from my post is tragically disappointing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
29 posts in almost a year.
Are all of them this helpful???
well.. i used to have iphone and i hate it, i changed to android, kinda better.. then now i have wp7.
WP7 is the best amoung all the OS. i just love it.
games are much better,
i can do office,
interface is easy and fast,
screen is hell big on my HD7,
BUT
games and apps are expensive like shiat!
I am not hating WP7.
I own one for 2 months now and I just realize that it is not really a smartphone.
It is rather a phone for kids or for people who are not used to smartphones and need something very basic.
arturobandini said:
I am not hating WP7.
I own one for 2 months now and I just realize that it is not really a smartphone.
It is rather a phone for kids or for people who are not used to smartphones and need something very basic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, name me another feature phone that has:
1. MS Office
2. Netflix streaming
3. slingbox
4. 3d games
5. exchange support
Just because it doesn't meet your needs, doesn't make it a featurephone.
It indeed has some nice features, but as long it does not have:
- a file explorer,
- an easy way to manage Office files
- an easy way to send Office and pdf files
- USB drive
- Skydrive client on the phone
I don't find it business oriented enough
I had Desire and Desire Z, so both Android smartphones, well first, I loved them, but that flashing game to get better Android sucks. And With each rom, official or not I got bugs. Well, now I have Omnia7 and it's really awesome. Music player, messaging, people hubs are super! It's a great OS which was created to get things done fast. Android is created to root, install roms and get ****ed up one day. Well, I hope that many other Android users will get bored with flashy thing and grow up one day. People, don't you have anything better to do, instead of flashing roms? And creating them? Company creates OS, and developers makes apps. And with android we have, that Google creates OS, which is **** and needs things like Sense and etc. to look not like cheap **** and then users, developers creates Roms. People, create apps not roms, if you want to create OS go and Create your own or join other companies.
So my opinion about WP7: very good Os, needs some updates to get some features that are lacking and more apps )) Which will come eventually ;]
arturobandini said:
It indeed has some nice features, but as long it does not have:
- a file explorer,
- an easy way to manage Office files
- an easy way to send Office and pdf files
- USB drive
- Skydrive client on the phone
I don't find it business oriented enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, these features like explorer will come one day. And I realized that I don't need them. All my things like music and pictures are synced with zune, which is awesome. And because it's not Android I don't install ****s like Roms and etc, so file transfer is not needed for me :]
Niiceg said:
I had Desire and Desire Z, so both Android smartphones, well first, I loved them, but that flashing game to get better Android sucks. And With each rom, official or not I got bugs. Well, now I have Omnia7 and it's really awesome. Music player, messaging, people hubs are super! It's a great OS which was created to get things done fast. Android is created to root, install roms and get ****ed up one day. Well, I hope that many other Android users will get bored with flashy thing and grow up one day. People, don't you have anything better to do, instead of flashing roms? And creating them? Company creates OS, and developers makes apps. And with android we have, that Google creates OS, which is **** and needs things like Sense and etc. to look not like cheap **** and then users, developers creates Roms. People, create apps not roms, if you want to create OS go and Create your own or join other companies.
So my opinion about WP7: very good Os, needs some updates to get some features that are lacking and more apps )) Which will come eventually ;]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gimme a break. There is nothing bad in wanting to squash from your phone more than it gave you out of the box. Now you sound like some iPhone user
"Simply is simply better cause it's simply and I don't need nothing more". We spend hundrets of dollars to buy a capable phone, not a pretty device capable of doing things that prehistoric people did ;/.
arturobandini said:
It indeed has some nice features, but as long it does not have:
- a file explorer,
- an easy way to manage Office files
- an easy way to send Office and pdf files
- USB drive
- Skydrive client on the phone
I don't find it business oriented enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
neither was iphone or android on first release. It will take time. I can't blame MS for taking this approach. Business users were not keeping winmo numbers up enough by themselves (along with the techies). So they are trying entertainment first with business features coming.
raven_raven said:
Gimme a break. There is nothing bad in wanting to squash from your phone more than it gave you out of the box. Now you sound like some iPhone user
"Simply is simply better cause it's simply and I don't need nothing more". We spend hundrets of dollars to buy a capable phone, not a pretty device capable of doing things that prehistoric people did ;/.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing wrong with trying to get more out of your phone.
Something wrong with HAVING to install fixes right out of the box.
Or rather, not doing as well as I feel it should. This is just my opinion.
The answer is whiny developers.
From the beginning, all we've heard is 'MS didn't release this API, that's why we don't have x app by y developer'. And then time and again, so small time devs give us their version of the app mysteriously not needing said API to make it happen. Sometimes, it's even Microsft themselves shooting WP7 in the foot.
I'm no dev myself but doesn't it seem strange to you that:
1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
And the list goes on. Makes you wonder if:
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
Smooth transitions and a badass UI only take you so far.
MS needs to step-up their integration as well while I'm on my soap box. WP7 really does need to be better than WM6.5 in every way except stylus support IMHO.
Sorry to any I may have pissed off with this rant but I'm jetlagged and bored right now.
Have a good day.
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)
I don't think it is failing, its just loyal WM users are hedging about a purchase (including me) because there's not a lot that they can do with the device as of this time. I personally think MS-Nokia partnership bodes well for the platform. I imagine Nokia porting a lot of their excellent apps to the WP7 platform (OviMaps using Bing data anyone? for all i care they could just use the ovimaps platform, its good as it is). I personally think its exciting and I'm looking forward to a Nokia device running WP7.
I guess it all depends on what your looking for. I dont need google maps, the preinstalled one works for me. I call/text/email all my friends or see them weekly so I could care less for facebook. I twitter a little bit but the apps in the market are sufficient. I keep my phone on vibrate most of the time but I guess it would be nice to use on sundays.
The only part thats needs some improvements to me are the browser, multitasking and I would love a remote desktop app. Thats the 3 things from android that I miss.
otech said:
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong otech, I put the 'failing' in quotation marks for a reason.
I know it's doing a lot better than most expected. I just get pissed when I got to trollish blogs like engadget and see the hate spewed. I have no real loyalty to MS, just loyalty to quality which WP7 is.
It just annoys when devs say such and such can't be done, yet it is being done already.
ROI is a cop-out as they can simply make ad-based games or apps. Don't some apps make more money in Zune marketplace compared to Android marketplace?
Yet Android market share is humongous. And why do they feel the need to also publish some snide comment about how they just can't develop for WP7 because the interest isn't there? It just re-enforces my view that these devs are whiny brats.
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
failing?
lol, more and more of my friends are now useing wp7 phones..
I don't really see why we need conspiracy theories where there are simpler explanations.
The main problem with satnav apps is that they cannot be ported simply because there's no native code access. Sygic or TomTom or whoever will need to create and maintain a completely separate fork, with almost nothing being reused between their WP7 and all other versions. That's expensive, and with WP7's tiny userbase it just doesn't make any sense. It's very similar for hardcore games.
Microsoft could finance these projects, but for some reason they chose not to. One of the reasons may be that operators are quite happy selling their solutions for subscription. Navigon already did a satnav app for WP7, but they don't distribute it themselves.
1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The game sucks
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
There is some confusion in this thread over Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.
Yes, Windows 8 will be capable of running on an ARM processor. No, it does not make sense for a full blown OS to be running on your phone, even if it can, because it doesn't make a for a good small touchscreen experience. There would always need to exist two different marketplaces.
I have not heard anything more than speculation on Windows Phone 8. But I am certain that if and ever in the near future MS were to launch WP8, it would all be part of the same ecosystem. It would be suicide in this market not to continue compatability. Obviously at some point there will need to be a cut off in forward compatability, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Not soon enough to start regretting a WP7 purchase.
Vintage144 said:
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
The game sucks
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you serious or did you just want to troll/have no reading comprehension skills?
1/. I'm not a delivery truck driver but I was trying to make my way around Germany last week and needed turn by turn navigation while trying to find a restaurant in town to eat at. I wonder what would've helped out...? Oh yeah!! Working maps outside of the US that provided voice guidance.
2/.This was about how WP7 is supposed to be FB integrated yet the apps are better on both IOS and Android. And I'm sorry you don't have friends to talk to from time to time that would make FB chat on your cell an asset since it's blocked by most offices.
3/. The issue of the whole article is devs. Not the quality of the games. Learn to read!!
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
5/. You really are a moron to not see the advantages of google voice. I have unlimited everything on my plan but that does me no good when I'm overseas, something I doubt you will ever have happen to you as I doubt people want your brand of ignorance exported.
6/. All capslocks sentences get no response.
7/. I don't think you're a dev if that's what you're implying.
8/. This makes no sense. I've never been on ATT. I don't like Android as it's a clone of 2 OS, wm 6.5 and IOS and the only other OS I've used extensively is Symbian besides wm6.5. Don't assume because you end up looking like an ass in the process.
My points are valid, devs have behaved like brats with WP7. Which has less limitations that IOS did back in the day yet they worked wonders for that OS.
lekki said:
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did a search for "Touchexplorer" and Touch Explorer" in the market and didn't find any results.
rhory said:
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems quite a silly argument. Anyone with any knowledge of Microsoft history would know that it is highly unusual for them to break from a legacy platform. WP8 is likely simply be a natural iteration on the WP7 system.
To my knowledge MS has done exactly 2 legacy breaks in it's history. NT and WP7 that's it every other OS they've developed has been a evolution rather than a revolutionary break.
WP8 will just be WP7 with the NoDo and Mango updates might get some additional interface customization but I suspect it will be able to run on current WP7 handsets.
That's just the way MS does stuff. The hard compatibility break between WM6.5 and WP7 is just not business as usual for MS.
I think it's highly unlikely that any app written for WP7 won't work on WP8 when it finally materializes.
IMHO windows phone is like the iphone now. Wp8 will not kill wp7. It will be the same ecosystem and all users will be able to upgrade. Wether will it run or not on old devices i dont know but i dont think its reasonable to say they will kill everything they´ve done with wp7 next year. Windows Phone is not like Windows mobile. Forget the old microsoft. Things are different and better now (god bless competition).
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
pillsburydoughman said:
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
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I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
I wouldn't say its failing but the OS is still fairly new and its a slightly new experience compared to iOS, S60, and even Android.
As time goes on, with more support and more phones from Nokia, WP7 should gain some more popularity.
lekki said:
I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
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Sorry your reply makes no sense.. and I quote
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
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Nobody cares why you bought WP7, I can only assume you bought it because you wanted one. It's not a matter of attack or defending anything, I see no reason why you're bothered that you have to "defend" your decision to purchase something.
Funny how you complain about whiny developers yet you're whining yourself.
lekki said:
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
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Even if WP8 will be W8, so what? All current APIs are managed code, applications can be transferred without even recompiling. Since there is no native code access it doesn't matter which core the OS will use.
So the roadmap for 2012 has been on the table for a while: Tango for Q2, bringing basically "only" Skype and lower end devices, and Apollo for Q4, bringing multi-core phones, HD screens and more. Probably Windows is thinking about eating something of the huge marketshare owned by Android in the lower-end side getting ready for a big bang at the end of the year. Good, I'd say, but not too much. Let me explain.
Right now people have gone crazy for dual-core phones and huge HD screens: the fact that the GS2 is right now the top selling Android and it's not some cheap low end thing, but a huge and quite expensive superphone might actually mean something.
Android made something good and terribly bad at the same time: it turned many normal users into spec whores. This can be good because pushing the envelope is never a bad thing itself, but it also sucks because it draws attention from the software part, which is equally or even more relevant, and a major selling point for something like WP7.
So here's my point: there's a lot of Galaxy S2 wannabes right now, many people I know right now tend to buy every Samsung phone, especially low-end ones, with some "Galaxy" in its name because of the Hype created by the GS2. And not only that: sooner than later some cheaper dual-core Android phones will start hitting the market, and pretty sure they'll sell like hotcakes because of the same hype.
My question is: what do we have NOW, or at least coming out in the nearest future, to endure that? We don't need low end phones now to take over the market, we need a top dog, we need something able to create a similar hype around WP7.
I know some people will mention the Lumia 900 here, but IMHO hell no, this is not enough: it comes late, we should have gotten it worldwide before Christmas to make a splash, and guess what? It's not even out yet NOW: most likely it will come out right in time to be put in the corner by the GS3, which will be, guess what? Another Android top dog, able to create another massive amount of hype throughout all the platform. Here's what I think: if WP superphones, with hd screens, console quality gaming, and some truly effective marketing by Microsoft will wait so long to come out, they'll be late again and the platform will most likely be doomed forever: at the end of the year the iPhone5 will come out and that will be the tombstone for this beautiful OS.
Long story short, Microsoft has to step up, and has to do it before it's too late, if it's not too late already. They have what it takes to change the mobile world scene once and for all, why don't they just use it? Right now the XBOX feature in nothing more than a gimmick, but guess what it could be when loaded with Microsoft's exclusives like Gears Of War or Halo, with console quality graphics and addictive online gaming? Can you imagine the impact upon the masses of some ads showing people that they can REALLY have their XBOX in their pockets, and not just a stupid gimmicky avatar with no use? This amazing gaming experience, coupled with the unrivaled effectiveness of the Office integration and other features for business oriented users would really take WP7 to the next level.
You may see this as a pointless rant, I don't care, I believe in this platform as much as I used to believe in Android before it became mainstream and failed at being what I would have liked it be. If you took the time to read all this stuff, or maybe even if you didn't, I'd like to know what you think.
Agree? Disagree? Share your thoughts.
It takes time, it will catch up.
I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
sinister1 said:
I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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The public disagrees with you, especially those who have actually used the devices. The general public doesn't give three craps about dual core, quad core phones. They don't even care about the processors on their computers, don't believe me? Go work in a BestBuy for one day. The public doesn't care what the stats are, as long as it's reliable. All of my friends, every single one, hates their Androids because of the laggy interface. Doesn't matter which device. And they all have fairly new phones, you want to know the device between you and them? They don't want to, don't care to, and never will root their devices for that "smoothness." XDA is a VAST minority. People don't transfer music files, this isn't 1999 where one person gets it on Napster and shares it with all of their friends. We have Pandora, and a variety of other cloud services that are FREE. I mean, if you guys walk around transferring files to your friends all day long through Bluetooth then maybe you need to re-examine YOUR life instead of Microsoft's approach. The general feedback from the 900 is that the device is going to sell, big time. The 800 is already selling. I don't get what's so difficult to grasp about this. We get it, most of you want complete control over your phone, and that's okay, go buy a patent infringing device that requires multiple hacks to remotely work and be updated. None of us have a problem with that. But the constant *****ing about how it sucks and how it's going to fail is getting old.
And this isn't to you OP, you shared your valid opinion, and it's worthy of discussion... This troll just came in here and decided to say it sucks.
I'm really hoping the multi-core phones come out sooner than later.
Sure, the OS itself doesnt need horsepower, but some apps already could benefit from the extra processing power. Want a good example, download craftworld(a minecraft clone); it runs like turd on my phone, and thats on the low setting!
sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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Flipping heck. It sounds like you didn't even read the title. How came that everything has to be "open" in order to succed? iOS anyone?
Btw, last time I checked WP7 was the only OS with an innovative look and feel, but maybe it's just me.
OP - yes, the quad core phones are not far off for ios, and android. Yes, that will be a selling point at the workplace and store. Coworkers talk, show off, and brag about their phone booting faster than their computer...word of mouth rocks for marketing.
Here in this forum, people aren't fans of quad core phones, but I would bet if one was released befroe ios/android had one it would suddenly be a real big deal...
Good critical start to this thread. Hopefully the name callers and assumptions can be deleted by mods quickly.
OP - Spot on. They're a step and a half behind, and making no appearances of trying to catch up. They should have released the 900 before Christmas like you said, and released HD devices like this month.
FiyaFleye said:
The public disagrees with you, especially those who have actually used the devices. The general public doesn't give three craps about dual core, quad core phones. They don't even care about the processors on their computers, don't believe me? Go work in a BestBuy for one day. The public doesn't care what the stats are, as long as it's reliable. All of my friends, every single one, hates their Androids because of the laggy interface. Doesn't matter which device. And they all have fairly new phones, you want to know the device between you and them? They don't want to, don't care to, and never will root their devices for that "smoothness." XDA is a VAST minority. People don't transfer music files, this isn't 1999 where one person gets it on Napster and shares it with all of their friends. We have Pandora, and a variety of other cloud services that are FREE. I mean, if you guys walk around transferring files to your friends all day long through Bluetooth then maybe you need to re-examine YOUR life instead of Microsoft's approach. The general feedback from the 900 is that the device is going to sell, big time. The 800 is already selling. I don't get what's so difficult to grasp about this. We get it, most of you want complete control over your phone, and that's okay, go buy a patent infringing device that requires multiple hacks to remotely work and be updated. None of us have a problem with that. But the constant *****ing about how it sucks and how it's going to fail is getting old.
And this isn't to you OP, you shared your valid opinion, and it's worthy of discussion... This troll just came in here and decided to say it sucks.
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The Public disagrees with me? Ha ha ha, what like 2% of the public? Yes I do have the device and have actually used it ever since they shutdown support for WM and it has been a nightmare, yes I agree that its buttery smoth but why did they release it in such a rush to where it lacks the simplest functions? I do agree with you on one thing though; no one cares for dual cores and so on. why you ask because I have just as much rights as the next person to voice my oppinions positive or negative and if you don't like it all you have to do is ignore my posts it's as easy as that. The fact is it does suck no matter how you look at it period.
@sinsiter1
..you are asking for some donation: How about some brain?
@sinsiter1
This topic was meant for gathering some constructive criticism. Please leave or I'll report you for your inappropriate language.
doublepost, sorry.
We got to give it time fellas its the first month of the year and we just got a snippet of whats in store for us. Yes the updates will dictate the quality of the phone. Lets face it, this is WP year IMO. We started off this year right with Nokia. People know Nokia and they will flock to it. I see where you are coming from also. But time is of the essence. People want ease of use, especially the older crowd. My mom wants a smartphone now she is 56 and she wants me to find her one (HTC Radar). Why? because of its simplicity from her coming from a dumb phone. iOS might be ok but shes not a big app person. She just wants to keep track of email and send and recieive pics and it looks well. Sounds like WP is well fitting for her.
To everybody saying people just want dual core and so on. Please. Everybody does'nt look for that in a phone. My only gripe with WP so fa is app launch speed. Sometime can be slow, might be my device idk.(DVP).
vnvman said:
@sinsiter1
This topic was meant for gathering some constructive criticism. Please leave or I'll report you for your inappropriate language.
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No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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It's not about the phone, it's about the way you behave. I may be wrong, but last time I checked you were the one storming here with your smartass tone and utter lack of respect for the opinion of the other posters. Next time try showing some more respect for the other users. Nobody holds you from expressing your opinion, just try not to talk like a freaked out 12 years old kid, because this may upset "normal" people, just fyi. It's just a phone OS right? No need to be overexcited.
sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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Windows Phone doesn't have the simplest of functions? Please.... i has all of them and more... oh wait you mean outdated functions that aren't used any more like bluetooth transfer - well nowadays we have attachments and email.
sinister1 said:
I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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how many times are u going to say the same thing?
sinister1 said:
Yea Windows Phone sucks because Microsoft made it that way. I keep telling people the reason people choose Android over WP is because nobody wants an iPhone copy cat. No body wants a so called smart phone with limited functionality; just think about it just to customize it the way you want it you have to hack it and pay for unlocks. Some thing as simple as a file explorer is missing, no way to send and receive audio files, nothing; Microsoft dictates what you can and can't do on this phone. Not only did they come in late, they came in lame! WM was the right path but Microsoft didn't put forth effort into it, instead they left us hanging with this limited, rushed and unfinished OS. Facts are facts and I only speak the truth. Wake up Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
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you sound like a broken disk, again
---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 AM ----------
sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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if the 90% of your posts start with a "windows phone sucks" inside the windows phone section I THINK it's not a matter of "personal opinion". That's what all the forum I used to be in have always called a "troll".
You think Windows Phone sucks. We got it. You even think Windows Mobile is cooler than Windows Phone. Fine. But it was clear the first time.
Just to post something I never said : I think Windows Mobile was the crappest crap of OS I ever seen. It crashed, it lagged, it rebooted without reason, it freezed. I can't understand, not even nearly, how can Windows Phone be compared to Windows Mobile. I hated Windows Mobile with all my self. Only a madman, according to me, could prefer Windows Mobile over Windows Phone.
Another thing I never said : iOS is a good OS ! if Windows Phone looks more like iOS than like Android is a good thing ! Every open solution the market saw FAILED, netbook with linux failed, webos failed (sadly, but it did), linux so far failed (windows has still the 90%+ of the PC out there) so I don't think we should even care about openness. The only reason people got Android are the good devices Android is put on. Most people I know got their Android phone, they like their device but they don't like Android (or they don't simply care). The only reason most of them didn't get an iPhone is MONEY, otherwise they WOULD !
I don't want Windows Phone to turn into another Android mess.
I think the Windows Phone way is good just the way it is, it only needs time and patience.
Just want to let you know that I will be watching this thread. Please share your opinions with respect and with tolerance.
I will not allow any trolling or disrespect.
Thanks and back on topic please.
Please, ALL, read the forum rules found at the link in this post
sinister1 said:
No need to be offended, it's just a phone, a device, don't understand why some guys get all fired up because of my opinions, because that's all it is my own personal opinion weather it may be positive or negative. I have a right to speak my mind no matter how mad or crazy it may seem just like you all have the same right. I was criticizing the phone and not anyone in particular, now if someone wants to smart off at me then I will smart of right back. With that being said, no I won't leave and if you want to report me then be it, you have every right to and will not take it personal. But seriously some people act like they are the actual CEO and Owners of MS LOL, calm down it's just a phone.
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Although my post here is off topic, it's intention is to keep new posts on topic and keep the rest of the forum on topic. It is also not specifically to you, but your post is its motivation.
#1. There are forum fules found here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
All should read them. In fact rule 2.6 specifically says
the_forum_rules said:
All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
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Remember, no one has the right to post. Being able to post on this forum is a privledge. Freedom of speech does not apply for a number of reasons, primarily because the site is privately owned.
2 of what I consider to be very import rules for keeping XDA a great place to come.
Rule 2.5 so that users positively contribute, while keeping the place friendly attracting new users who also may in the future positively contribute.
the_forum_rules said:
Courtesy towards other Members: Treat new members the way you would like to have been treated when you were a new member. When dealing with any member, provide them with guidance, advice and instruction when you can and always with respect and courtesy. Never post in a demanding, argumentative, disrespectful or self-righteous manner.
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And Rule 15 which is often times ignored by posters, but is needed if any thread subject is to have any meaning.
the_forum_rules said:
15. Keep posts/threads on-topic
Whilst a minor amount of off-topic posting may be overlooked, the general rule is your posts / threads must be relevant to the Forum / thread in which you are posting.
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