http://www.istartedsomething.com/20100318/windows-phone-7-series-will-have-copy-paste-eventually/
As it turns out, the development team actually knows exactly how they will be implementing copy & paste in WP7S but did not believe it could be implemented without affecting the release schedule they’ve committed too and therefore will be including it in an update down the road.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows Phone 7 is a complete rebuild. You can't expect them to have everything the iPhone has taken 3 years to make in a year.
Windows Phone 7 has alot more than the iPhone from day one including Apps, App store, Xbox Live, Netflix, Exchange Push etc...
Flash will come, Adobe is working on it.
Copy & Paste will come...
Obviously some of you will never like Windows Phone 7, you are to much of a geek. You want a confusing OS.
The fact is consumers want ease.
The #1 complaint has always been about the slugish nature of Windows Mobile when all the apps get loaded and started. This OS will get rid of that. All the Android phones at the T-Mobile stores are sluggish for the same reason, people have played with them to death. You will still have push notfication and plugins such as Pandora that will play in the background. Can a single person tell me one app that can't fall into these instances and where you absolutely need multitasking?
As for one Marketplace, that makes financial sense. It also makes sense for Zune, as Microsoft doesn't want you to hack the phone or mess with Zune as it has contractal obligations to keep the DRM working for the subscription model. Just as it keeps the Xbox locked down. And makes even more sense as movies move to the mobile platforms. Don't expect Android to get a huge music subscription option or too much mobile video without DRM and changes to the storage model. Also, Android has the Google Market by default and I guarantee most do not unlock the option to sideload.
As for removal of apps. Apple can do it. Google can do it on Android (unless you root/hack) and Windows Mobile has had it since day one. There was much discussion about this, and the mobile carriers demand it for the security of their network. And in a world of viruses and botnets, I can understand as a botnet would bring down a network so fast it wouldn't be funny. Apple have never used this option, as has any other company including Microsoft to my knowledge.
Sure I think it is stupid to have to wait for Copy & Paste, but I know it is being planned and I may even wait to buy a new phone until it is there.
And sure, SD cards are nice but I knew the moment Zune was promised that it would be iPhone and Zune like with locked storage.
But for me the pros outway the cons. Zune, Xbox, Netflix, Silverlight. I love the UI, and having played with the SDK the whole OS seems very promising. Its a very web based OS, sorta like WebOS but with the power of Silverlight. Add XNA for gaming and you will have the best mobile gaming experience together with a revolutianary interface that is more untiutive than any other OS.
A very interesting read is the "UI Design and Interaction Guide for Windows Phone 7 Series". The commitment to a UI that works naturally with touch and is focused on a panoramic experience that gives you easier access to data.
I was always afraid Microsoft would just do a better WM, and I'm so glad they decided to rethink everything. And yes, that does mean a start from scratch and somethings will go and somethings will have to wait to be implemented.
lol your excuses are ridiculous
no multitasking and no c&p sucks and you can't excuse them. plus no file system access sucks even more than no multitasking and no c&p combined!!
you are glad that they made an iPhone clone?! iPhone is for people with no clue. If you are someone with no clue, get the real thing: iPhone. And if you are someone intelligent, you can not want that crap.
sm3rtlag3l said:
lol your excuses are ridiculous
no multitasking and no c&p sucks and you can't excuse them. plus no file system access sucks even more than no multitasking and no c&p combined!!
you are glad that they made an iPhone clone?! iPhone is for people with no clue. If you are someone with no clue, get the real thing: iPhone. And if you are someone intelligent, you can not want that crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excuse me, you are the one with no clue. Do you even own a Android or Windows Mobile. You just join XDA this month so you can diss on WP7S. Get over yourself. Alot of people want Zune, Netflix, Xbox on their phone, and this will sell.
Just like DOS was great and fun, and I enjoyed it, but it did die. So will complex things that don't need to be complex. Windows Mobile was great when it came out, and sure WP7 still needs improvement but it is the future.
Yes I own an HD2.
It is possible to make powerful things that are not complex. MS just are too stupid to do it. If well implemented, no feature makes something more complex. You can not excuse the lack of features, the only reason why they are missing is because MS
a) is too stupid to get them right
b) wants to have control over their stuff (music files etc)
c) wants to have control over the user.
I don't want to live in a future where we are marionettes controlled by big companies like MS.
Use your brain. Stuff like WP7 and iPhone is for people who can not use their brains, so they need companies to think for them.
Just found this in officeres.dll from the dumped emulator....
± S e l e c t A l l P a s t e C o p y C u t € U n d o
and
&@D o n e '@C a n c e l C o p y / P a s t e [email protected] e l e c t T e x t € @P a s t e &@ € '@
and
@C o p y @C u t [email protected] e l e t e @S e l e c t A l l € [email protected] l o s e @ € [email protected]
and more. Definitely seems like some sort of copy/paste is supported in the office apps or at least was planned at one time.
sm3rtlag3l said:
Yes I own an HD2.
It is possible to make powerful things that are not complex. MS just are too stupid to do it.
I don't want to live in a future wherewe are marionettes controlled by big companies like MS.
Use your brain. Stuff like WP7 and iPhone is for people who can not use their brains, so they need companies to think for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or maybe I wanto think about something else rather than what new rom I am going to change to everyday or what new Android customization.
People that have a life want to get on with it and not struggle with technology.
Obviously someone like you should embrace Linux & Android. Because watch as technology increases more and more that its must be easy to use.
Maybe its because i'm getting old, but I don't have time for downtime while I am messing with my phone. When I was younger I would install Linux on my PC without even thinking about it, now I use spare computers for projects as I don't dare risk my main computer.
But Microsoft is doing the right thing, WP7 is not for XDA or geeks. Sure, I as a geek will use one as I see potential where others may not. But I am right. Most people take the easiest root. When you fly, any sane person would choose a direct flight from NYC to London. Only a flight enthusiast would fly from NYC to Hong Kong to London.
Having used the iPhone as one of my phones, I am aware of the lacking nature of Windows Mobile. But i couldn't stomach Apple, so I did come back. However I know Microsoft will be more open (already saying they will allow 3rd party browsers), and they have the tech I am interested in with Silverlight, Xbox, and Zune.
But you never did answer my question about what apps absolutely require multitasking that Push Notfications or Hub Plugins don't solve. You just say it is lame excuses... I am waiting for your answer.
RustyGrom said:
Just found this in officeres.dll from the dumped emulator....
± S e l e c t A l l P a s t e C o p y C u t € U n d o
and
&@D o n e '@C a n c e l C o p y / P a s t e [email protected] e l e c t T e x t € @P a s t e &@ € '@
and
@C o p y @C u t [email protected] e l e t e @S e l e c t A l l € [email protected] l o s e @ € [email protected]
and more. Definitely seems like some sort of copy/paste is supported in the office apps or at least was planned at one time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Copy & Paste is planned. Look at link I posted above, and the quote from that link. The fact is, based on their development schedule it is not going to available by holidays 2010.
I guess some of you would rather they delay WP7 for another year... that is not an option for Microsoft.
GPS tracking and apps that download/upload stuff from/to the web, cause nobody wants to wait for that.
Also GPS navigation, cause nobody wants to wait for a sat fix everytime he just wants to look at something else quickly (e.g. change music track).
Prolly there are many examples.
Also you make totally false assumptions. More features do not have to make something more complex.
I do not want to have a complex phone as well. Nobody of course wants to waste time because his phone is too complex.
But you can see from other platforms, that all the missing features can be added in ways that do not make it more complex but only make the experience BETTER.
E.g. the lack of file system access makes getting files to and from the iPhone VERY complex, MUCH MORE complex than it would be if you had file system access, cause you have to do stupid things like emailing stuff to yourself etc.
Why do they not give the access then? For sure not because they want to make it less complex. If they say that, they are liars. No, it is because they want to control their iTunes/Zune content.
And no, if they had simply given WM as it was the CE6 kernel, good APIs and graphics for developers to make great apps and a fluid, friendly UI, they would probably have had it a year EARLIER WITH c&p.
But no, they had to make an iPhone clone because they could not take that Apple was successful. Maybe they will also be successful with WP7 cause their are enough people with no clue in the world, but that does not make it good. It still remains a ****ty iPhone copy and I don't want to live in a future where companies dictate what we can (not) do with our own stuff.
I'll just leave this here
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/17/microsoft-on-copy-and-paste-in-windows-phone-7-series-people-d/
'people don't do that '
sm3rtlag3l said:
GPS tracking and apps that download/upload stuff from/to the web, cause nobody wants to wait for that.
Also GPS navigation, cause nobody wants to wait for a sat fix everytime he just wants to look at something else quickly (e.g. change music track).
Prolly there are many examples.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Torrents or large uploads or downloads should not take place on a device, its bad for the network. That being said, I think Zune or App Marketplace downloads will continue in the background, as will email. I do see your point, but there is a reason carriers charge $60 for netbooks/computers to have internet but only $30 for smartphones. But obviously WP7 is not for you, I could have told you that day one when it was announced. There is no reason for you to stick around. As nobody is gonna torrent on their phone. However, that being said. The Hubs are constantly internet connected (provided you have data access and enable constant connection). I would imagine one could code a plugin that would download 3rd party movies from say Blockbuster OnDemand in the background of the media hub. However I doubt Microsoft will easily approve these apps, especially if they border on torrents. Remember, anything intergrated in the Hubs can continue to access the internet even when the hub is not in view.
As for Apps, they are said to pause, so your GPS app would resume when you get back into it. As for fix time, it should be less than 30 secs, closer to 10 secs. As its a hotfix (already has location in memory).
Also you make totally false assumptions. More features do not have to make something more complex.
I do not want to have a complex phone as well. Nobody of course wants to waste time because his phone is too complex.
But you can see from other platforms, that all the missing features can be added in ways that do not make it more complex but only make the experience BETTER.
E.g. the lack of file system access makes getting files to and from the iPhone VERY complex, MUCH MORE complex than it would be if you had file system access, cause you have to do stupid things like emailing stuff to yourself etc.
Why do they not give the access then? For sure not because they want to make it less complex. If they say that, they are liars. No, it is because they want to control their iTunes/Zune content.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What other phones have you used that allow more and are not complex for users? Android is pretty easy at first glance, but to get everything YOU want you have to do complex tasks such as 3rd party markets or rooting etc..
Argueable Windows Mobile has always been the best pocket computer, I always found it is the most powerful, but that power did create complexity.
And no, if they had simply given WM as it was the CE6 kernel, good APIs and graphics for developers to make great apps and a fluid, friendly UI, they would probably have had it a year EARLIER WITH c&p.
But no, they had to make an iPhone clone because they could not take that Apple was successful. Maybe they will also be successful with WP7 cause their are enough people with no clue in the world, but that does not make it good. It still remains a ****ty iPhone copy and I don't want to live in a future where companies dictate what we can (not) do with our own stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was sink or swim for Microsoft. If they had released Photon or similar (as I guess you suggest) the press would have burned them. The whole WM interface could never be made touch friendly enough without looking like a clown. Sure they would still have had you, and some corporate customers but overall I think it would have spelled the end of the platform.
And sure WebOS in some areas is better (Multitasking, Copy & Paste from day one) but Palm isn't doing any better for. #1 for limiting developers but #2 because the devices are STILL SLUGGISH. Why do you think they gave TWICE the amount of RAM in the new Pre Plus on Verizon?
Obviously you will prefer WM6.5 and Android. And you are entitled to your opinion, but to join XDA just so you can constantly diss WP7 is immature.
I think Microsoft made the best decision with WP7, and I hope we see copy & paste soon.
I personally am against multitasking on smartphones. In fact, my best WM experiences have occured after I made the X always close apps. If I need one to stay open (such as Pandora) I just don't close it but leave it open while I do other stuff. But WP7 solves that in that Pandora will still playing by plugging into the Zune Hub. IMs, SMS, Twitter, Facebook can all have push notifcations.
As for root file access... I only use that now for documents and to run Android for fun on my HTC Touch Pro 2. Will I miss. I don't think so, there is still Office, there will be a way to access documents of email or having them on the phone. But it will be a more secure phone and for me Zune (I own a Zune HD) and Xbox are more than enough to outweight any negatives.
Let me know when Zune or Xbox quality media/gaming experiences come to WM6.5 or Android.
Einlander said:
I'll just leave this here
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/17/microsoft-on-copy-and-paste-in-windows-phone-7-series-people-d/
'people don't do that '
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Click to collapse
Ouch... I stand corrected in that Copy & Paste isn't planned.
OUCH.
LJKelley said:
Ouch... I stand corrected in that Copy & Paste isn't planned.
OUCH.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interview: Windows Phone 7 battery life, copy/paste, multitasking, and more
Brix then goes on to say that there's something that Microsoft calls, "delighters." These are things that users want in the platform and can be announced any time between now and release... Later in the day, Nilay Patel of Engadget asked Brix, specifically, if copy and paste is one of the "delighters" and he told him "no."
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Click to collapse
It doesn't look like a definite no to me, could be updated in the future as you said, and also the underlying code is there, if the demand gets high enough, it will be implemented.
Why are you defending this to the death?
Excuse my if I'm being rude but, this is Microsoft. They couldn't care less about you, what you think or what you do. You're not going to get a pat on the back for "defending" WP7. They couldn't give a crap about any of their customers as long as they get their money, they've pretty much shown this by sticking the finger up to current windows mobile customers and aiming for the more dumbed down generation of Smart Phone Users.
I could understand if you were defending something like Android, an Open Source Project given away for free by a company which is far from being perfect but does actually listen to the community and has ethical values. But Microsoft? They couldn't give 2 craps about anyone so why try and convince everyone that WP7 is great. If you think so, great! Go buy one it doesn't effect you if other people on here don't.
brummiesteven said:
Why are you defending this to the death?
Excuse my if I'm being rude but, this is Microsoft. They couldn't care less about you, what you think or what you do. You're not going to get a pat on the back for "defending" WP7. They couldn't give a crap about any of their customers as long as they get their money, they've pretty much shown this by sticking the finger up to current windows mobile customers and aiming for the more dumbed down generation of Smart Phone Users.
I could understand if you were defending something like Android, an Open Source Project given away for free by a company which is far from being perfect but does actually listen to the community and has ethical values. But Microsoft? They couldn't give 2 craps about anyone so why try and convince everyone that WP7 is great. If you think so, great! Go buy one it doesn't effect you if other people on here don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could say the same for people that continue to visit an dedicated Windows 7 Phone section just to bash it. Why bother?
Atleast I have an interest in the platform, and as someone who has started to develop for it, I also have an interest in its success.
When they decided on 'smart multitasking', they did that for the benefit of the end user. Therefore I'm fine with that.. if it's not working it'll get changed. They did it to address problems like having to go into a task manager to close apps. OK.
Copy/Paste is basic.. they did not leave this out for our benefit, they probably left it out because they haven't figured their way around iPhone patents yet. They've done a lot of work to tell us why we don't need copy and paste.. this work could have gone into implementing it, so they must have a damn good reason for leaving it out. That reason is not because we the user will like it (copy/paste is not complex nor a power user thing. It's essential).
No USB file system access.. no removable cards. This was not done for the end user's benefit either. Sure, they'll be in more control if Zune is the only way to get stuff on and off the device, but that wasn't good enough reason to deny us. Basically I can't use my phone as a flash drive anymore.
Because copy/paste and file access were left out with the user in mind, I can't defend them. Because "true" multitasking was left out with us in mind, I'll defend it even if it's flawed.
I can understand removable cards. It's difficult for apps that rely on storage to have guaranteed storage. What if the user decides to store your files on the card then they take it out? What if they decide to delete random stuff? You'd have to code your app to be aware of memory card vs internal storage. Devices would have to ship with a certain amount of internal storage as well.
I do sorta wish there was a mass storage mode. Like you couldn't muck with the files but would be put into a special folder. Apps could access that folder if they choose. That seems to be the 'best of both worlds' method.
Hello everybody,
I saw the preliminary specs of TD3 and they state 4G storage and a MicroSD slot. This is only preliminary though. I was also wondering what will happen when HTC and XDA get their hands on the oem version. I guess it will be a different winmo after that. For example my touch pro doesn't have anything to do with the ones in the store, and is far different from other wm devices from other manufacturers
LJKelley;
Let me know when Zune or Xbox quality media/gaming experiences come to WM6.5 or Android.[/QUOTE said:
I agree.there must be a strong reason that they rebuild the whole stuff.We should respect rather than criticize and I fully agree with LJK and his opinion..(I already have sales fig of various top companies and OS wise, but i cannot disclose)..and WM looks poorer.. much much poorer..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i never trust a company when they say a feature is not needed, they all say it but later add the feature in updates. i reckon copy and paste will be added on a update in 2011.
i think multi tasking is less likely but it depends if apple add it or not. if apple add it im sure ms will be forced to too. its this uncertainty in the market that makes me wonder why ms did not put a min ram of 512mb (instead of a silly 256mb).
LJKelley said:
Torrents or large uploads or downloads should not take place on a device, its bad for the network. That being said, I think Zune or App Marketplace downloads will continue in the background, as will email. I do see your point, but there is a reason carriers charge $60 for netbooks/computers to have internet but only $30 for smartphones. But obviously WP7 is not for you, I could have told you that day one when it was announced. There is no reason for you to stick around. As nobody is gonna torrent on their phone. However, that being said. The Hubs are constantly internet connected (provided you have data access and enable constant connection). I would imagine one could code a plugin that would download 3rd party movies from say Blockbuster OnDemand in the background of the media hub. However I doubt Microsoft will easily approve these apps, especially if they border on torrents. Remember, anything intergrated in the Hubs can continue to access the internet even when the hub is not in view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't have time right now to reply to your entire post, but excuse me! I also have used torrents on my winmo phone!
And to the majority of things you said, although some of them make sense i don't agree with your opinion...
Related
No file system access:
No file system access means
a) you can not use it as USB thumb drive
b) you can not share files with different computers
c) there is no file downloads from web and no useful ftp clients and similar apps because they are useless without fsa
d) you can not open files with different apps unless maybe you email them to yourself, which is complicated but is the common way to get files on iPhones and it will also be like that crap on WP7
No SD cards
I hope I don't have to explain why that sucks. Terabyte SDXC cards are on the way and WP7 buyers are stuck with built in 8-32GB. And you have no thumb drive mode and no SD card to take out and load files on it.
No copy and paste
No, you are not dreaming to live in 2007. It really is 2010 and WP7 really has no copy&paste. Is this ridiculous or what?
No multitasking
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad but really with a bit of thinking multitasking can be implemented in ways that do not have any bad effects at all and it even speeds things up because there is no loading times and of course push notifications also hurt battery life.
Plus there is lots of things that are not possible without multitasking. Say byebye to GPS tracking and stuff.
Marketplace censorship
They say it will be "objective" but everyone knows that is crap talk just look at current WM6.5 policies they are the same censorship as in Apple AppStore.
No native coding and no deep customization
Say byebye to apps that let you customize buttons or replace built in apps or let you adjust any advanced settings.
It is for sure that MS will not include all settings that users may need and there is no way users can change anything that is not in settings by default, because there is no file system or registry access for apps.
All the mentioned things make the user experience worse. Emailing everything to yourself sucks it's complicated and it is also complicated to have quick looks at info inside apps without multitasking and much more problems because of the stupid limitations.
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text
WP7 is complete FAIL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are from Europe, and noone but European citizen will understand this statement, imho(y know what i mean...i think).
I do. Although wm died for me with 6.5, wm7 have beaten everything i could imagine as succesor of 6.x.
WM7 is just death of pda's. They should name it TwittmarketplaceBS.
But let me be honest - people wanted another iphone, and they WILL HAVE another iphone.
We can stay away from that...nothing more...
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is just because lack of BRAIN, not multitasking problem.
That's why iphonelike bs is ONLY option for 'em.
Shame, there will be no solutions for thinking people soon.
I will stay away. But is is sad because now I have less phones to choose from because all phones with WP7 are already ruled out from my wishlist.
Why is that that Americans buy locked down stuff like iPhone?! Are they masochists?! Nobody in the world that is not a masochist can seriously want a phone where you have to email files to yourself because it is the only method to put them on the phone!?
Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way somehow. I think it's OK otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM. WM's fate is death for most people. Even for me, I've been using WM for yeeears, but for me it feels slow, dated, and yet powerful but at the end I end using the dialer, the picture explorer, and messaging system.
I have a ZuneHD, I love its interface, speed and simplicity; and it has a basic but enough multitasking capability. According to some videos that I've seen, I've noticed that the multitasking capabilities are even better in WM7.
About the SD Card... 8gb is enough for most people, and this is the smallest storage size that the new Windows mobile phone will have. The customizations... I'm sorry but most of the themes out there are [email protected], and I even consider that HTC interface is all bloated and slow. I'm sure there will be some customizations in WM7, it's just matter of time to figure out the way to do so.
The good thing, is that you have many more options like the Android, the iPhone or even Nokia, which new OS looks good enough to compete with all the new competitors.
sm3rtlag3l said:
I will stay away. But is is sad because now I have less phones to choose from because all phones with WP7 are already ruled out from my wishlist.
Why is that that Americans buy locked down stuff like iPhone?! Are they masochists?! Nobody in the world that is not a masochist can seriously want a phone where you have to wmail files to yourself because it is the only method to put them on the phone!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I know is that my 4 y.o. pda with PHONE MODULE is working ok.
Sry, cannot answer your question...do not try to understand US citizens..waste of time, imho.
Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way. I think it's ok otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, dude, PDA was not phone, but personal assistant(you know, computer ,not iphonelikebs) and it WAS ok, then iphone rose from **** and idea wanished.
All about that.
g'night guys.
daniel_rh said:
Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way. I think it's ok otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Nokia Symbian and Android and also Palm webOS are not locked down ****. Only WP7 and iPhone are.
And also Android and Symbian^3 have very good UIs too so it is not necessary to lock them down to make it easy to use.
And even multitasking can be very easy to use, like on Palm webOS and Nokia Symbian^3.
Hardware base specs is good for the user experience but missing features and censorship is always bad. Apple started that **** but they were lucky because they had the only good UI so people bought their phone nevertheless and now years later MS copies them completely.
But today it is not enough because everyone now has good UIs so features like file system access make the difference. Plus there are still all the power users and enterprises they are many as well (and it is not necessary to be a power user to benefit from those features - using one's brain is enough).
sm3rtlag3l said:
No file system access:
No file system access means
a) you can not use it as USB thumb drive
b) you can not share files with different computers
c) there is no file downloads from web and no useful ftp clients and similar apps because they are useless without fsa
d) you can not open files with different apps unless maybe you email them to yourself, which is complicated but is the common way to get files on iPhones and it will also be like that crap on WP7
No SD cards
I hope I don't have to explain why that sucks.
No multitasking
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad but really with a bit of thinking multitasking can be implemented in ways that do not have any bad effects at all and it even speeds things up because there is no loading times and of course push notifications also hurt battery life.
Plus there is lots of things that are not possible without multitasking. Say byebye to GPS tracking and stuff.
Marketplace censorship
They say it will be "objective" but everyone knows that is crap talk just look at current WM6.5 policies they are the same censorship as in Apple AppStore.
No native coding and no deep customization
Say byebye to apps that let you customize buttons or replace built in apps or let you adjust any advanced settings.
It is for sure that MS will not include all settings that users may need and there is no way users can change anything that is not in settings by default, because there is no file system or registry access for apps.
All the mentioned things make the user experience worse. Emailing everything to yourself sucks it's complicated and it is also complicated to have quick looks at info inside apps without multitasking and much more problems because of the stupid limitations.
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we should think the other way round, look how iphone is popular with its easy to use GUI and still its locked.
Most ppl are not techh savvy as us who loves to install cabs etc. People want out of the box experience.
So when a lay man (in tech terms) asks for a smartphone help, I suggest him iphone as it can do most of the task which it desined to no hangs etc.. Now I can suggest wm7 device for sure....
But wait whats the point of having a Windows phone if I cant customize... its not for me... first wp7 and then no wp7 upgrade in HD2 has made me not to buy any smartphone..
my 37 $ ***kia phone which I brought temporarily whin I lost touch viva... is doing a nice job... with 1020 mah battery , reminders, wireless fm, standard organigers ,,basic spreadsheet , notes...
Locked nature of WP7 has lost my in Interest in smartphones. I was like suggesting every1 of WM advantages....
WM sucked coz only on crap hardware and GUI.... and HTC fones saved its saved still it have 15 % share in smartphone OS.
MS is not sure where it want sto go......
WP7 is a complete pass for me. I don't need 1TB or 2TB storage. Hell my 16GB Zune HD is only 1GB full. Being an avid fan of Xbox live gaming, Outlook (Exchange) and facebook, this phone is a win win win.
Remember people. It's made for the majority (non-geeks) not minority (geeks).
Microsoft has stated that there will be a way to distribute applications outside of marketplace (for enterprise mainly). I'm sure we will be able to use this to our advantage for all the apps we want to get from here. They are basically putting in a backdoor asking for us to open it cause they know the techys want that opening. Now as long as we can figure out how to get access to the file system we will have no more issues. Maybe they just put in minimal restrictions to protect the normal EU but keep it easy for us. That second part is speculation only though.
Idiocracy of the Mobile World
It seems everything is so dumb downed these days...making things is a easier to do is fine but damn. For me I hear windows mobile I think mini pc but now it seems things as a whole are headed towards playskool sh!+ for adults. I blame newbies that dont/cant read manuals & use commn sense (u won a lottery u neva heard & u paying money to receive the winnings lol). I also blame the pos companies/people that push malware/spyware/phishing. Window mobile's customization is gift for the tech savy but a curse for impatient eye candy lovers. Hopefully with it being a series they have an actual smartphone edition.
wp7 will be a sucess. Why would you want a mini PC based UI, the PC UI is 30 years old..and for one a phone is a different device, why not take a different route? Half the hacks for winmo6X are too improve and and even make use of the devices hardware/software better,..wp7 doesnt have that..or is it needed. The other half(customizing) won't be needed since the UI has information across every inch of the screen, why waste screen space w/ a desktop like home screen on a 3 inch screen?
sm3rtlag3l said:
No file system access:
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text
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I am with you on all that. It seems that Symbian will be the only Mobile OS that is actually OPEN and, without a doubt the most efficient one. Android and Win CE are hardware hungry, and that is why one of them (android) eats it's battery when multitasking and the other one won't even have it because it will "compromise" the end user experiance. What they really mean by that is "we need 2ghz CPU and 1 gb ram to run 4 programs at the same time" until then, take that "save state" BS that apple has been selling you for years already and be happy.
No native coding is completely FAIL
No native coding is completely FAIL
egmkang said:
No native coding is completely FAIL
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why
Hi,
I wish i could say i completely disagree but unfortunately I think you're totally right :-(
first I was not convinced with the new user interface which is imho very ugly.But the announcements of today are the final stroke for me ! Windows Phone 7 is no more than a dumb phone with app support. The latest versions of winmo 6.5.x were really heading in the right direction I think and now microsoft is breaking everything with windows phone 7.Now I'm sure that the future of windows mobile for me is windows mobile itself ! no windows phone series for me ! Everything I hate about apple, microsoft just copied into windows phone 7. this really is not for me. Thank you M. Microsoft ! I'm so disappointed !
Thomas
Slow
havox22 said:
why
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click a button , then you can get a sleep
egmkang said:
Click a button , then you can get a sleep
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i thought they said that silverlight & XNA would be hardware accelerated, im no dev & know nothing of it but would it still be slow, cuz some of the things they demoed didnt look slow, but besides slowness what are the other drawbacks?
havox22 said:
i thought they said that silverlight & XNA would be hardware accelerated, im no dev & know nothing of it but would it still be slow, cuz some of the things they demoed didnt look slow, but besides slowness what are the other drawbacks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But C# runs more slowly than Native code,and C# has a big runtime called CLR and a lot of libs.
egmkang said:
But C# runs more slowly than Native code,and C# has a big runtime called CLR and a lot of libs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol what you just said means nothing to me i just told you i have know knowledge of any of that but thanks for trying to explain, nvm about explaining it ill go read a book on it, maybe bing it
il be sticking with the hd2 il be buying next week
only worry i have is i doubt we will get much more developed for 6.5 from now on :/
I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times. And maybe only 1 of those times isn't supported by current WP7. I think I was trying to copy a selected joke off the internet and send it in a text to someone. Is that really a deal breaker? REALLY? I can't copy and paste in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I can't multitask in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I don't have access to the file system so this phone sucks? lol This is getting out of hand. I'm not gonna lie, after seeing it in person I want to give a few thoughts:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
2) MS isn't just forgoing certain aspects, they are giving you something they perceive is BETTER(and they could be wrong). And I get to thinking about this for a minute. I'm running an Acer S2000, I don't have much problems with running multiple apps at the same time but If I go back to my old Touch HD, After running maybe 4-5 apps at the same time(hell just one 2-3 apps provided one of them is google maps), I start to experience extreme slowdown in the device so now I'm forced to use the task manager and close out apps. This is everyday stuff for us, no biggie. But to the everyday end-consumer its pretty tough and annoying concept to grasp. So why shouldn't the system do it for you? Why shouldn't the system recognize the fact that you just got an email with a phone number and that by clicking on the phone number you either want to add it as a contact or call the number? Why? Is a very important question. People ask why are some of us defending it to the death, I ask why are certain people so unwilling to accept change? Its not like WM6+ is dead...
3) its not an iphone clone. Hell, Android and WebOS has multitasking, I guess they are WM-clones... Its such a stupid concept. It looks nothing like the Iphone and it doesn't act anything like the Iphone. But you gotta give Apple some credit, they know what people want and they provide it, thats how you go from the bottom of the hill to the top in 4 quick years. The Iphone reinvented what people use a phone for. Its simple and intuitive (just press what you want) WM is going for that same lot of people. If everyone from XDA didn't buy WP7, MS wouldn't even break a sweat because it know it will gain far more everyday users than it will lose from powerusers. Powerusers will stay where they are, but look at the population of the world with Tweet, facebook, myspace, etc. You don't think some of them are salivating at the mouth to get to this powerhouse? I wish MS would have just flat out said, "you wanna hack phones and tinker with system files, this phone isn't for you, go suck it XDA" it would have been so much easier for people to take
So look at the positive
Developers (which i have to believe are the life blood of WM and THIS WEBSITE...unless you're a leech in which case no need to respond) No more need to spend you precious time building beautiful apps and not get paid for it(if it were the case A_C would be one rich dude by now). I like the idea of the marketplace as the only place to get apps. I mean when people think about how many people take innovation for granted on this site. Show up, find something new, download someones work...not leave a message of thanks, not donate etc....just poof gone. Thats complete and utter crap. Devs should get paid for their work, free download with a set trial period is an amazing idea and will definitely go a long way to seeing 1) quality developers getting most of the service 2) quality apps drive the marketplace to further innovation. This is a all around plus for the end user and developers.
Built in memory. I think is a plus. Now people can argue the contrary but this is more of a personal thing for me. Plus when you think of the end user, it only works out for the better. Give me 32GB and I'm fine. Hell I haven't come close to maxing out the same 4 gig I've had for the past 3-4 years.
Everything is better than Windows media player. I must say, I use my phone for music a lot (Jaybird bluetooth FTW) and I must say the Zune experience is amazing (I also have a Zune) and its just beautiful. Gone are the days when I copy songs onto my phone and I end up with Unknown song 1-18 by unknown artist. Zune desktop is head and shoulders above WM and Itunes. Hell you can search more music by and artist you have on your phone, listen to songs and download them str8 to the phone with the Zune Pass. I get 10 free songs a month to keep, and can listen to anything I want anytime for $15 a month. Thats an awesome deal considering Itunes is 99 cents per song and you don't have the ability to listen to anything you want anytime you want.
Info on the go, I like the hubs...I love the hubs. I wish i used social networking sites..lol. Honestly the amount of detail that goes into the total system integration of social networking is sheer madness. Your photos update with photos that people post on their facebook?!?!?! WTF? Thats insane. Its quite ridiculous how far they went, but if you care about that, and a lot of people do, then this is the ultimate device. You don't need to launch twinkini or whatever twitter app to see whats going on, you only need to look through your contacts. Thats awesome
MS Office, I never used anything but XLS files personally but I'm looking at the way its integrated (even though they didn't get too in depth) and it looks great. It looks clean (METRO UI) and it looks easy to use. I can't wait to get some pinch to zoom action going. Powerpoint presentations should be a breeze as well.
XBOX HUB, sheer awesomeness. I don't have an Xbox(PS3 FTW) but Linking it all together they way they have is nothing short of innovative and awesome. Give me an Xperia X3 with a PS3 Integration and I'll love you forever. Also a big shout out goes to the game development. Graphics are seriously on par with PSP quality. It quite amazing.
I once said:
"its(WP7) not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation..."
I still stand by that after MIX10. I won't bash WP7 and I will defend it because I believe it is that innovative, I believe it is a game changer. For all the complaining there hasn't been a congruent amount of love spread so I will be that guy even if the flame gets ridiculous. So yeah, MIX10 was amazing, got robbed, won some money, got married and divorced (I kid) it was a great experience, something that watching it on video cannot give justice to.
That said I will give a few of my small personal beefs.
1) The phone handles multitasking in a way that closes programs when the system needs the resources, why don't we have control over this? Having the ability to manually close programs is important...should be an option. Assuming the system doesn't have some genius way of making me happy with its multitasking...this could be a problem. Also, with the spec given, how the hell is this system running out of resources?
2) SD cards aren't supported. Eh, with enough built in memory this isn't a problem to most but, I know some that have maxed out their Iphones/Ipod touch. It would be nice to have an expandable option
3) Compatiblity issues, How am I supposed to share files with my phone to my PC if I cannot access activesync? Do I email the file to myself then open it on my PC? There better be some answer for this.
4) Also I use my current WM phone as a thumbdrive alot. I just store stuff on it to keep with me and put on my work PC and vice versa. Without activesync, memory cards, or access to system files how is this accomplished?
~style1~
ALRIGHT those are my thoughts, I tried to play both sides of the fence even though I'm completely biased..lol. I do bring up some interesting issues with WP7...what are your thoughts? Also sorry for another long thread
style1 said:
I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times.
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That's nice, but what's the rationale for not including it for anyone? MS says, "Our research indicates that people don't use copy and paste." That scares me because it is very Apple-esque. I hate the philosophy of "we know what works best for you, so why don't you shut the eff up and not ask any questions, OK? Just do what you're told and play in our nice little walled in garden and everything will be fine." That Apple mentality has spread to MS it seems. I don't often look at or take pictures on my phone, either, but does that mean those capabilities should be removed? No, they should be there in the event that I do want to use them. What's the harm in leaving in copy and paste?
And if I can get good battery life on my TP2 with multitasking, why can't they coax it out of the shiny new WP7? How does Palm do it?
I store all sorts of crap on my phone, so they better have 32GB versions available and let me use it as USB storage.
Also, I heard you won't be able to set different programs as the default (say, Opera instead of IE). Which is another ridiculous restriction and just shows that MS has gone overboard with control, just like Apple. And that's just the reason I don't have an iPod or iPhone.
So if things don't change, I'm off to Android.
Engadget, by the way, has been actually quite balanced with WP7 versus their coverage of WM6. And prior to the all bad stuff we learned at MIX10, they were hyping it quite a bit themselves.
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
I'm feeling kinda torn with regards to WP7s. On the one hand I love the UI and the integration, on the other I hate the lock down. Not just the software lock down but also the hardware lock down. It's what I hated about the Iphone, and it's what I hate about WP7s. Granted, there's gonna be more variety with WP7s, but it's constrained variety.
When I first saw WP7s I was certain my next phone would be with that OS. Now I'm not so sure...
Regards
havox22 said:
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
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Click to collapse
They've completely re-done the UI. Allowing copy & paste would mean they would need to re-implement it from scratch. Besides that, as far as I know the WP7 menus are limited to max. 4 entries so they figured out it doesn't really fit in....
yeah I feel you guys about the copy and paste even though I hardly use it, but my honest opinion about it is that microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all. The issues mentioned at the bottom of my original post pose far bigger issues than having copy and paste. But as I mentioned in my OP, I don't think MS intentionally got rid of the stuff we like, I think they tried to integrate something that is better, something for the end user instead of the the heavy user. If thats their ideal customer(everyday users), then yes, Automatic multitasking trumps the task manager style multitasking: active copy paste is useless. I guess...lol
BEGIN RANT/
On a different note, on the innovation side Android reminds me alot of the old WM. Palm/WebOS is a different beast all together. Nokia/Symbian owns majority market share even though its hardly innovative, Iphone has been largely innovative (face it...it is) and is the number 2 OS followed by WM. Image that as a marketer. There are like a million different types of WM phones made by dozens of different manufacturers and somehow they lose market share in 4-5 years to 1 phone made by 1 developer. How is that possible? There is something to be said for massive over-saturation and its effectiveness (NOKIA...I'm looking at you) but as far making hand over fist money, how can you not just look at Apple and say "genius?" 1 phone, locked down, hated by so many, number 2 marketshare in the world. I think if WM is going to get on top they have to attack Apple. Attacking Android does nothing...honestly I think pushing WM 6.5 beats android (Personal opinion) WP7 has to take those Iphone users away from apple. So they have to offer not just something similar, they have to offer something BETTER. So yeah, High level of social integration is BETTER, Simplistic design and text based smooth UI is BETTER, Stronger Hardware BETTER, Xbox integration and heavy game centric focus is BETTER. The Iphone is the enemy here. In order to beat Apple it has to be BETTER at what it does. So, we wont see 8 HTC WP7 phones every year (since there is no point considering WP7's high standards)...thats a good thing. WP7 is putting out a clear and sweeping OS that has one message WE ARE BETTER. I think the average user will be sucked away from Iphone back into Windows because Windows is totally committed to bring a user experience that is uniform across all platforms. If I have a PC and an XBox...WP7 is a no brainer. 23 Million XBox users...thats a lot of people. RANT END/
Thats all my personal opinion though. Butler youre right about not being able to set certain programs as default. As MS is using BING to search, and IE for internet etc....I don't think you'll be able to switch it to opera on the fly. But you can always just select Opera from the programs list or just tag it to HUBs and just select it from there. Although I believe that with the fact that MS has been sued recently in EU for not offering people a choice for their browsing for their PC I'm confident in saying that Opera might still have the option to set at default (as it currently does). We will see though. Its kinda a stretch to relate PC to WP7 as is because its still in rough beta.
~style1~
style1 said:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
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This makes sense. People will often require a number of features from a phone and unless it ticks those boxes extra features are not important.
"Windows Phone 7" is missing a lot of basic features. If they are not important to you, good for you, but you seem to be in two minds about that. When there are a lot of decent phone OSes on the market you shouldn't have much need to compromise.
well yeah of course, but its not like any of these features are totally missing...they've just been reinvented or reinvisioned, so to speak. I look it it this way, why do I copy and paste? Because I want to take info from one program and transfer it or send it to another. MS has determined (again, I'm sure the put some R&D into it) that most people don't even use it so much so they created a NEW system that allows you to do basically the exact same thing, take info and transfer it, without all the fuss. Its still copying and pasting. I dunno. I believe innovation something to embrace, it moves the industry foward. Because all these guys compete for our business they drive each other bigger and better. But it seems that keeping up with the old outdated ideas is all that people care about. I mean, the Iphone doesnt NEED copy and paste. It functioned just as well without it. The big problem with it was they had NO alternative to make people say oh well thats just as good. So what do they do? They add vanilla copy and paste. Consumers drive innovation in that sense. My wife for the life of her can't understand this huge hype about multitasking. She believes her Iphone is just fine. She can listen to music, she gets her push notifications when she needs them...shes a happy camper. She doesn't get it. I try to explain to her how its important, but regardless she wont get it because it doesn't fit her lifestyle. How many people does something like that matter to, honestly? I get MS' approach....it makes sense. The average consumer would rather have things be simple, would rather have things done for them; than actively doing them for themselves. The exception to this is WebOS because its driven by the idea of multitasking. And how innovative is that. The homescreen is the taskmanager. Its a great way to make the idea of actively managing open apps seem like it is something that you are in control of, not like WM or android (where you just get massive lag) where it seems like the open programs are something thats controlling you.
Different strokes for different folks though. But hey remember how many of those basic required features that the original Iphone launched with? lol Looking back it was laughable how fail that phone was, but it sold out the stores like a champ. Its not about the basic features. Its about the innovation behind it. Apple invented the wheel all over again. MS has to invent the V8.
~style1~
Personally, I was looking forward to WP7.
But:
1) No Multi-Tasking (I don't count push notifications as multi-tasking)
2) No Copy/Paste
3) No removable Storage
4) No 'Use as USB device'
Are pretty big dealbreakers for me. These were all things in favor over the iPhone (except c&p since last year), and now they're going to handicap us :|
Thanks for being a voice of reason style
sevenprx,
windows does have their own take on C&P as well as multitasking. It in fact does do both, just not in the way thats been the industry standard so people are considering it NOT there even though it clearly is. I believe you should check out engadget where they do have a few good articles and clips.
1) Copy and Paste Here (even with the misleading headline its informative)
2) multitasking HERE
3) Removable storage is a big issue. I think most will be appeased by massive 32 gig phones but alot (myself included) of people wont. But in terms of solving problems it saves a few headaches for MS in the development process. I do believe MS told us during the keynote (or somewhere during that time, I cannot remember) that developers can have internal SD for more memory, but it is kinda a bummer for me to not have removable Cards. Its basically to keep this phone as unhackable as possible.
4) No use as a USB device...this too is a killer, as I mentioned earlier I do use my phone to store info on. Its a daily thing. Since I can't access my phone through activesync it makes all this info useless. Its like they only want use USB to move photos and music...THATS IT. I'm not sure if thats the best strategy but, for those to whom this is dealbreaker for, they are probably happy as sheep with 6.5 so it won't be too much of a deal for MS. Which of course still makes the HD2 an extremely viable phone at one helluva price.
~style~
Thanks mazzarin
I'm still looking forward to WP7. It has a lot of very intriguing features and I like the look of the UI.
As far as multi-tasking goes it will work with my needs. I can alway have a webpage up in the background, I can alway have music playing in the background. Any core feature of the UI like calls, SMS, email can all run the the background and one 3rd party app. Honestly, I hardly ever use multiple 3rd party apps to begin with.
I don't use copy and paste very much. I think I can say I've used it about 5 times since I've had my device and honestly it was so much of a pain to use that a couple of those time I gave up and just wrote it down and re-typed it.
I would really live to have removable storage. I just hope phones with 32GB flash come out. I can fill 8GB pretty easily.
I use my phone as a USB device a lot just to transfer big files. This is honestly one of the biggest things I don't like.
Look, I'm all for defending Microsoft but the one thing you glossed over is the one real dealbreaker.
No copy and paste? How basic yet essential is that? If you've only used it 5 times in 5 years I don't know what you've been doing with your phone, but other people bought a phone with Outlook and Office and web browsers for a reason. Data detection is not going to let me email a paragraph or search for a sentence.
"Multitasking": No problem, pause the apps for when I come back to them. I don't have to close them myself, cool.
No USB file access: Pain in the neck, sucks for us, but if we store only files that apps on the phone handle (music, documents, etc) then at least we can still use the device as intended. It just won't be a flash drive
No removable card: Very stupid since I do actually pull out the card.. but the truth is that most people don't. MS and app developers have a much easier time knowing that the storage is always a part of the device, and they also don't have to be so scared of piracy. So it really really sucks that we can't expand storage, but at least the phone will still work.
So when you combine those last two, our main difficulty is moving files on and off the phone.. but it will sync files to our own accounts fine at least. even wirelessly. So the phone is still usable. But copy/paste? The phone is CRIPPLED without it
again, what as I said before, I actually did sit in on an conversation and demo where there same things you're saying about copy and paste were presented to the demo operators. Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS.
Honestly just like multitasking, its a non intrusive way of doing what people do anyway. And yes I have only used multitasking maybe 5 times. I honestly just don't need the feature. I mean, hell as there are millions of Iphone users what they were doing with their phones for the longest. It just isn't important to me. I use outlook, use push, I use Office and the web browsers but I never had to copy anything. I handle P&L's, I keep many office documents and I prepare powerpoint presentations as well having my phone linked to corporate accounts that I use to send this information out on a system wide level. I haven't seen the use for copy and paste because honestly I send complete documents so I only need fowarding.... Occasionally I may just copy an email account and paste it into my recipients list but WP7 is capable of doing this...I witnessed it myself.
~style1~
Very rationale styles1. I like your thinking with some valid points. I still believe that wm has been around this long because of xda and every developer and user that uses their brain to tweak and modify to each individuals liking, including ms/htc and xda developers. Taking this away, takes the dignity away from ms and xda users. i have been a long time wm user since i was a kid back in the early 80s. the ONLY reason i don't have an iphone and not jumped ship like my dad, sister, brother in law, friends is because of the features that wm has had over the years. the ability to cut & paste, the ability to use storage cards, the ability to control the phone. I use all these features. Not every day, but I use them. And it's more than 5 times in 5 years. I guarantee everybody on here, and probably yourself, would be lyng if you said just 5 times. Try 10 or 20 times, but how is your memory so good and that you can count with your fingers to just 5. Anyhow, I'm not here to argue. These simple/essential things are actually quite vital to the average xda user like myself. I've read thousands of messages on here from chainfire, to abu, to duty, to dave shaw, mskipp and to every other developer on here. They are my true heroes, they have made the wm phone viable, with dignity. For an analogy, you can drive a cadilac or a mercedes. But your gonna tweak up a hyndai or honda and tell me it's the same and gonna be better than a mercedes. If honda were gonna tweak up there car and charge 75,000 and say they are just as good, then I'm just gonna buy one. hmmm. we (ms) is competeing against iphones? are we really competing against them, or are we competing against ourselves (wm 7 vs wm 6.5/6.0/5.0...) To take away all these essentials, would be taking away life. Variety and Substance is the essential part of life. I hate e-readers, yet I don't like reading books either. However, I'd rather read a book where I can locate a page, then read off an e-reader. I think XDA developers and the common user like myself have spoken loud and clearly, there are really no winners in this case. This is not your win-win scenario......What do I know, I'm just a geeky medical doctor writing with no substance.
well I didn't originally say only five times...I said maybe 5 times. I'm not a fun user I'm mostly a heavy poweruser. But as most of the people on here I am extremely mod heavy. So yeah, I get it. But developers here will still be able to use this site for 6.5 as well as 7. People have to understand a couple things first and foremost. First, if developers don't support WP7, WP7 won't move foward. They can also support 6.5 as well as WP7 and not have to PICK SIDES. This isn't about "oh they got rid of features I need, FAIL" this is about a platform as a whole. 6.5 isn't going anywhere soon. Keep it alive but embrace the future as well. I don't like the thinking that goes into a lot of the bashing that happens. I mean if we're going to use cars for examples let me throw one out there.
I used to drive a Ford Fusion, when it rained I would turn on my wind shield wipers. Last year I upgraded to a E class Mercedes...now when it rains my windshield wipers turn themselves on. I like the fact that I don't have to worry about something so trivial as to turn the wipers on and then get them at a pace that isn't excessive or less than what current rain speed is. Its a system that reacts to whats happening around it and assumes the likely reaction.
I think thats similar to the changes WP7 is making to amend some of the issues with WM6+. But of course thats just my opinion.
I personally, however, hope that developers here don't just shun WP7 because its different and embrace it as an opportunity to develop for a new platform, increase their product visibility and most important to make revenue off of their hard work. Donations are fine but being able to actually get paid for your work makes for a new scenarios that aren't currently available to developer here at XDA and as we all know money drives innovation.
~style1~
style1 said:
Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No sir, no... I don't know what your definition of 'almost' is but I know that by definition "smartlinking" only works on structured data.. phone numbers, addresses, etc. If I wanted to paste another quote from your comment right here --> there's absolutely no way for smartlinking to do that.
Copy/Paste. Why does anyone even need to be arguing and making excuses for this? It's just basic and shouldn't have had to be left out or delayed. They have so many ways to implement it
if you read my post 6 i actually talk about what I saw in a live demo...actually I'll just quote it for ease of reading(I guess i will use copy and paste just for the hell of it....lol):
"microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all."
So yeah, I agree with you 100%...its not true copy and paste. It is however an alternative. And I know no matter what microsoft does, if they miss one step it comes out to be a deal breaker. But come-on, This is pushing it. I honestly sat there and watched almost (again I say almost) every copy and paste feature put to test, and the only thing it cannot do (copy from browser to insert elsewhere) ends up being like the worlds biggest issue. I have brought up some other FAAAAAAAR bigger issues, as well as provided some good reasoning and insight as to a lot of other system functions and we keep coming back to this extremely small issue. I honestly didn't know that so many people copy and paste from the browser. According to MS, people just don't do that, but apparently all the people who "do do that" are all on XDA...lol. But I guess that makes you right, though, people should be able to copy from the browser and paste elsewhere. Unfortunately WP7 won't support that at launch. What else can I say?
~style1~
No they don't provide an alternative, they provide alternatives to some use cases. No, copy from browser to insert elsewhere isn't the only use case, there have been numerous examples I won't copy here, you're just not paying attention to what people say.
No there aren't bigger issues as many of those can be resolved by hacking. C&P can't.
I personally find copy and paste indispensable and use it daily. One of the places I use it is to copy the website address and paste it into my mail and share it with my friends. Sometimes, I also copy of some useful information from the website to save it into my note application for future references. Then there are some forums that I visit daily where the only way to reply with quote is to highlight and copy the portion of the post first. Bottom line is copy and paste is completely necessary. MS has not done the research thoroughly or given it enough thoughts IMO.
As to multitasking, I almost always have more than one third party programs running. One of the scenarios is to listen to my favourite internet radio (which are oversea stations sometimes) while reading my 1000+ entries in my RSS google reader newsreader application.
Let's hope MS read these posts and come to their senses.
And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical. people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
For Example:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?
jacobgong said:
And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
jacobgong said:
people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
jacobgong said:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
jacobgong said:
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
jacobgong said:
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
jacobgong said:
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
jacobgong said:
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
both of yalls post were to long to read cuz its late, but im for wp7 also
wm7 is going to kill this community i think
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard of Max Manilla, Max Sense or TouchXprience?? if not I would be more than glad to direct you to their forums!!
I am looking forward to WP7
WP7 certainly looks like a lovely interface and i am quite excited about it. I have enjoyed my WM6.x phone over the last few years - but I will be happy to step into the more consumer focused model that Microsoft has put forward.
Fa7my said:
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard glad to direct you to their forums!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, I have.
they may look fancy but they obviously lack a lot of polishing.
Spike15 said:
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post kills, but much of it is true
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really, I never thought about governments and evil corporations or anything like that. It's your freedom if you think arguing about such things make you more free and intelligent.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I know what Multitasking means, I run a quad-core 8-thread Intel Xeon desktop. I never said it's entirely not used, it's just really not that useful because even the example you gave me is a very rare case, which shows how often you really use it, not very.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what made WM6.5 fail, thinking a phone OS is the same as a Desktop OS. it's not. the Phone is an appliance, not a general purpose electronic computer.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize that "except" will be impossible, but I don't need it to be possible because the WM7 UI is a lot better than anything we've ever had. if nobody was able to make anything close to it, I don't expect anything better to be made any time soon.
and you are free to show me which of you freedom tweakers have made anything better than the HTC Sence/iPhone OS/HTC Android triple screen UI.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
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do I really care? the fact is the iPhone Safari browser browses the web better than a freakin netbook, it's a lot more fluid with multi-touch zoom and all that. Unlike Opera 10 on WM lags all the time and shows blanks when you zoom and pan.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
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if you didn't know, writing programs before the existence of operating systems was a pain in the ass, cause you can't use languages like C
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
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the FaceBook app is there, because it makes it easier to access Facebook. If I try to access it with the web browser not only is it slow, laggy, power intensive. it's not optimized for finger use.
It's people like you who made the WM6.5 stylus and big battery a necessity.
as for the file syncing thing, yea I hate to have a syncing software like iTunes or whatever, I will hope it still works like thumbdrive drag and drop.
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
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Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
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Customization doesn't just have to do with looking good.
As you say...
There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance.
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Customization allows the user to make this trade off, and choose for example a more functional user interface that impressionable consumers would find less attractive.
jacobgong you are obviously an iPhone fan, ie. you belong to the market share (iphone users) to which microsoft is focusing on with WP7.
Welcome to the microsoft world! So glad they managed to grab you! This means their strategy is actually working!
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.
This is actually a merge of worlds. MS is going to give us developers an opportunity to create apps for ex-iphone users like my friend jacobgong, if they manage to grab that share... And as I can see, they are already doing great!
This is good news.
jacobgong said:
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close
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LOL
This said after "And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical."
LOL!!!
You made my day, man. As a nerd who lives for customization and for what we "can" do rather than what the unwashed masses "do" do (hurhur, doodoo), I died a little bit inside. XD Let my phone look like it's from the '70s! More nerd points! It can do a heck of a lot more than yours (okay, I have no idea what you use), and that's all that matters to me. Cool, eh? At least it's more "practical" than your line of reasoning!
Spike15, well said. Making masses into vegetables. As i see it, Queen gave masses high school education, enough earnings to have a holiday in Spain, buy few pints on the weekend and go to a football match, beyond that nobody as of vegetable masses likes Mr. jacobgong dont know where is Russia to say the least
jacobgong said:
Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.
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Well and your dream will be to get Adobe Flash support on the iPhone, which will never happen. And a browser without flash is just 50%. So you are forced to use a crappy app for youtube etc. And for you to know: your such beloved Safari browser is insecure as hell. Just google "Safari vulnerabilities" and you will see. So go away and shove that ugly thing up your arse.
hi all members i very like it on this forums
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.
Does anyone think that the iPhone os and Android have helped kill the "smartfone"?
It seems these os's are intended for mainstream use, kind of like the symbian os a few years back where kid's, mom's and dad's used a nokia or even a motorola. While the business or tech heads used windows mobile for PC-like functionality.
Microsoft have dumbed down their w7 phone software to the point my grandmother, or 10 yr old brother could and would be sold one of these (as long as he had cash lol), in hope to compete against these new mainstream os's that are extreamly competitive already and not the business or tech-head market the os seemed to be initially intended for.
It seems the software design is focused on people updating their facebook status or tweeting that they are taking a dump, and not really using them for work purposes at all.
With windows phone 7 am i going to be able to work with basic word, excel and pdf docs? Will I be able to use remote desktop or setup multiple outlook email accounts? Will alot of the programs i use on pc be available in windows 7 phone format? I cant seem to find much info, all the reviews ive seen seem to concentrate on its "social networking features", or show its "image gallery" and uninspired UI.
A smartfone is suppose to be a mobile phone offering advanced capabilities. The iPhone and Android have pretty much become mainstream os's, so i personally wouldnt call them advanced devices, they are simply the 2009-10 standard device, a touchscreen multimedia phone with 3g connections. And windows 7 phone looks like its the same. I think Apple and Google have taken 2 steps forward and microsoft have taken 1 back. Leaving us with no real advanced mobile phone or os as they are all now on par, with android looking the most positive of these mainstream os's.
So if its not aimed at the business or hi-tech market, what are we going to buy? I wonder if we will all be trying to hack the windows mobile 6.5 os onto these new devices in the near future to get some multitasking business features and PC-like functionality back? Im sure it would run great on the new hardware hehe.
You are quite right IMHO, but there is simple reason for that.
MS was targetting PocketPC platform, giving "full PC in your pocket"-like experience. This was for techs, administrators, but not for teenagers eagerly wanting to touch their phones without stylus, browsing internet, having thousands of animations AND HAVING IT SIMPLE. With Apple and later Google coming out with platform that actually allows you to simply and naturally touch the screen with your finger without using stylus, do simple things simple way (and disabling the hard things, because why would teenager need eg PuTTY right, for security and having out of box experience "it works" without installing ton of software, going through registry etc), MS's sales are slowly moving towards 0. And now, MS is targetting those teenagers, giving them all Facebook integrated in contacts, with simple UI and powerful base for making rich applications and games.
That part is good, that MS restarted whole Phone experience, giving minimal requirements so no more sluggish phones (just look on even HD2, needing patching driver for GPU and so on), creating whole UI rendered on DirectX, having new kernel, thus having it all like.. superfast.
On the other hand, they locked it down as hell. No teenager (except me ) wants to go through registry, they just want to have ton of apps on marketplace, and ton of games they can play. No manual googling for stuff, direct access from phone with cool UI. That's it.
I wanted to say something more, but I forgot what I wanted lol.
// ohh remembered:
Let's skip the definition "Smartphone is PocketPC without touchscreen", and say how do I feel difference between Smartphone and PocketPC.
I see smartphone as being something stupid with some internal APIs, integration option. (iOS, Android)
And I see PocketPC as being full PC in my pocket. Because of screen size, CPU power, RAM etc, it ofc has to be redesigned a lot. But the main idea "do what you want anyhow you want" must be there. It isn't in case of Smartphone (WinMo, partially Android).
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
krjcook said:
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
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This. The OSs might have been dumbed down, but at the core, it's all what applications you use to run on them. I am way more productive with my iPhone than I ever have been an other smartphone before then, and I will be with WP7 more so with it's amazing Office integrations
can you elaborate on the office integrations? Are there new office features that we havent seen on mw6.5?
If you are more productive on your iPhone than on wm6.5 are you using it for business/pc-like features or for social multimedia use?
Im just disapointed that they seem to have locked down the device, dumbed the UI to a point it actually looks like a really bad skinning attempt to conserve ram lol. The first pics i saw of the w7phone i thought must have been someones photoshop attempt at a joke. I lol'd then got a look of concern on my face as I realised they were real pics.
They are trying to enter into a mainstream teenage market already accomodated by the iPhone and now android. Leaving the traditional "pc in your pocket-business user" market with a void.
I personally dont tweet, dont use facebook, and would never use a xbox live service while im taking notes on my device in a meeting. I regularly work on my home/work pc through remote desktop. Use the calendar to set appointments, browse multiple websites at once and generally run 2-3 apps at the same time. I regularly use word and excel, and always sync my business/personal emails from by pc each morning.
I suppose the question is will wm7 be right for me? I would have preferred them to concentrate on new touch friendly business applications, handwriting recognition and smarter gui, not concentrate on social networks and games which make it seem to much like a teenagers phone. If these features i need are there that will be great and ill consider it. If not I think ill have to look into being converted into an androidian and lay my pc in my pocket to rest in a safe place as one of the last of its kind
Many of us wonder how it will be.
From the sales point of view, you have to simplify and make more eye candy
to increase your sales 10 or 100 times.
Just count how many Communicators Nokia sold, or HTC TyTn II's
and compare to iPhone.
But it's possible that following the smartphone's expansion
users beeing more conscious will want more functionality
which will be brought back........
I'm very happy with better cameras and screens though.
And hardware became so strong too.
So not all is lost.
THE ONLY QUESTION is if Microsoft is willing to bring all those missing things
or not........................
I pray for the resurrection of the PPC!
If I had this
Vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mej7sf4uonI
If it was the shape and size of the HD2, I would be in love again!
Yes it would appar that MS is moving to a more of a "walled garden" approach
yeah that sony in hd2 form factor would be great, i was hoping the tp3 would have been a similar device. Bring back the ppc! hehe.
anhyeuemmaimai said:
"walled garden"
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Otherwise known as prison
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
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More like safety. I'll keep my guaranteed updates through one provider thank you very much.
I dont see why you are complaining about the path that manufacturers are going today.
It is easy to know WHY they make advanced devices simpler to use, (to get a broader consumer base).
And I must admit I will miss the usability of winmo, but when you think about it, who uses the original UI of that OS? It's all skinned for eyecandy and simplicity to the end user.
So I would like you to see the bright side of this: The HTC TP2 will cost next to nothing very soon (well its darn right cheap already!). And it seems it has all you need!
For taking notes who needs 1ghz, right?
So I consider it a win-win situation for you, cheap phones with the functionality you require
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
The concerns are understandable, but I wouldn't say MS is abandoning the business user. In fact, I would state they are allowing the business user to encompass the newer business model also which includes facebook, twitter and other social mediums. Since you don't use either (directed to the OP) you may have missed that nearly every large corporation has a Facebook page and many are using Twitter to stay in touch with their user base.
The business model of marketing has changed dramatically in the last 5 years and I wouldn't give the credit to either the Iphone or Android, but to the social marketing that occurs with mediums such as Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, etc... I must admit that I fought being a part of these as did many of my friends (ages 35-42), but truth is they work great when it comes to actually being in contact with each other and for a business, it's customer base. Word of mouth has always been the true back bone of these businesses growing and these social mediums all take word of mouth and expand it's power by the millionth.
I applaud MS for actually creating a brand new ui and os to take advantage of both. If you are really concerned with your ability to be productive on the machine look at the many videos we've seen so far. You still have outlook, the office suite, etc... I am unsure if remote desktop will remain available but I believe it will in WP7.
The people who are left out are us nerds. The systems are lockdowned for now on and we get left out the loop, but we buy less phones than the clones do even if we are the reason these things work out properly with all of our experimenting, rom chefs and willingingness to beta test any and everything that comes our way.
ok, so I'm enjoying my Desire's speed and stability compared to my WiMo HTC Touch HD. I can still use Word and Excell and synchronize email and calendars, etc. But there is one thing I am missing: handwriting recognition. Now people will tell me to use Swype (which I am) but it's still not the same thing. With the stylus and handwriting recognition I used to sit in meetings and take notes for real. Now it somehow does not work as well and I also feel a little like a joke swyping. I am not much of a poking-through-the-registry kind of guy but I did like having complete access to the file system, being able to move any file where I wanted it, and so on. But I guess this is just the way this world goes. IN the meantime, I am sticking with android for now. It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
^ I can agree to that. Not the swype part though, its fast as hell.
If i had to choose between windows mobile 6 or wp7, i have already made my decision
I will surely choose wp7, not because wm 6 is bad, but because wp7 works fluid. And I need my daily amount of eyecandy
tudork said:
It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
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Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
addicus said:
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
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I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
Grassy
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
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I think you mean a court yard. One which you can freely enter or freely leave. Seriously if the first thing that pops into your head when thing of walled gardens are prisons...I'd talk to someone about that...
I think most people complaining now are not thinking long term.
Yes the OS is simpler and 'less' business and PPC focused. But. Think of it like this.
Start with simple yet powerful OS with enough feature to hook some power-users and easy enough for the average consumer to pick it up.
Now this is where the strategy plays out over the years to come. You train you base customer with update that over time make the OS more powerful and more feature rich much like PPC that they don't even know they're using a smartphone because you have "trained" them.
Sound familiar. It was the iPhone tactic from when it was released. Everyone knows the feature the iPhone4 has now could have existed years ago but they are "training" their user base.
Analogy time: If someone handed you an Indie car (PPC) and said race it you would be so confused by all the buttons and controls and not know how to handle it effectively.
But.
If they handed you a Suzuki Swift (WP7 (No idea why I thought of this car: P)) and said they will teach you to drive you'll have no worries buying from them again and buying a slightly (updates) more powerful car next time.
chaoscentral said:
I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
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Click to collapse
I am a writer/musician so I copy and paste words a lot. I also copy/paste links, etc... when I am sending them out to people on twitter/facebook.
Today at my University we had a marquee out the front near the main car park talking about Microsoft Graduates and inside they were showing of Microsoft Surface, Kinect and Windows Phone 7.
It wasn't hard to get a glance, especially considering everyone was mostly interested in the Kinect, I had a play with the Windows Phone 7 handset.
To be honest, I was expecting more, I was really disappointed, there is nothing that it can offer except for flashy transitions and pretty colours. Yes its true that applications will be released to improve the phone's functionality but there is definitely a limit to that because of the current API.
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users.
Does anyone know how WP7 handles notifications? Is it similar to iOS? I hope not. Android nailed it with their notification system, I wish Windows Mobile had something similar.
The menu in which you 'upload to facebook', is it limited? Can developers add functionality to this menu, will you ever see 'post on twitter' or anything like that?
On a positive note, WP7 is smooth, looks great and Internet Explorer is a whole new browser.
(Side note: University of Surrey is broadcasting the Microsoft PDC10 live on Thursday this week and one lucky attendee will win a WP7 Handset)
WP7 notifications are kinda a cross between Android and iPhone. The biggest downside to WP7 notifications is that once it goes away, you can't see it in a list or anything.
Re: "WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users." - I don't think Microsoft has any intention on every going after the "hardcore WM5/6 users." If you're expecting WM6 levels of customizability and openness, switch to Android.
If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management
AceofSpades25 said:
If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management
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lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.
RustyGrom said:
lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.
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lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously
AceofSpades25 said:
lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously
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If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.
RustyGrom said:
If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.
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Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.
Nah it's pretty much awesome
I also used WP7 the first time today - and it's AWESOME!!!
Don't listen to this guy (no offense )
I think everyone here saw the videos of Walkthroughs etc, so I don't know how you can get disappointed by using it.
It's exactly what you saw, just quadrippel times more awesome, cause you actually see it for real and touch it yourself
A Vodafone store had a LG Optimus 7 and I played with it for half an hour.
I just can't wait till the Omnia 7 finally arrives here in Germany. I'll definitly buy that and hopefully be happy with it
No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?
gmatharu12 said:
No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?
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yes, each application has its own restricted space. The only exception to this rule are images and videos (I think).
I know all your images are kept in one common place, and apps can use a hook they've provided in the api to load images from this place.
Any other app you can think of that would require side loading of files, would not work.
AceofSpades25 said:
Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.
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That would encourage both sloppy app development and content piracy.
Are YOU a developer?
A platform that indirectly encourages piracy doesn't get first-class support from the industry. Only exception is Windows Mobile, and only because it is compatible with the DRM in e.g. Zune Pass music.
Looks lile so,e people don't take piracy serious enough. It's a huge problem, amd a few users crying about design decisions aided to combat it in a forum are pretty much worth doing it.
Lime Wire was just shut down by a court. The media industry does not play around, and neither does the law.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
What a HUGE disappointment for a UI
Ok, so panes slide around. SO WHAT? The thing as I have seen it in videos looks like a PIECE OF JUNK. Just look at the picture of mine... How can you compare that or any of our WM6.5 phones on this forum to a BLAH screen that has three cubes on it? YECH. Is this is the way they leave it, I think that will be the end of WM. Just wait another year and there will be so few buyers of the WM7 phones they will be discontinued.
gmatharu12 said:
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
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U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
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Lol exactly
ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
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Oh yeah?! So try to copy internet link and send it to your friend by sms.
Retard.