Related
http://apcmag.com/microsoft-no-windows-phone-7-upgrade-for-windows-mobile-6x-devices.htm
Owners of HTC’s highly-praised HD2 touchscreen smartphone will be unable to upgrade the device to Microsoft’s new Windows Phone 7 software when the OS is released towards the end of the year.
Despite the HD2 meeting many of the criteria laid down in Microsoft’s ‘Chassis 1’ spec – including a 1GHz Qualcomm processor, high-res capacitive touch display, 5 megapixel camera and 3.5mm headphone jack – the phone will be ruled out for the simple reason that it has five buttons instead of the three mandated for all Windows Phone 7 devices.
That’s the official line from Microsoft, at any rate. Natasha Kwan, General Manager for Microsoft’s Mobile Communications Business in the Asia-Pacific region, told APC that the HD2 “doesn’t qualify because it doesn’t have the three buttons”.
At least officially, but un-officially I would bet that some gurus from XDA-dev will make it happen ... when the WP7S is available end of this year. They should be able to get the ROM and port it to HD2. That's my feeling.
And there is still hope this will be negated on the next MIX10 .... Microsoft will say "That's not true, HD2 is upgradeable to WP7S and here is the beta ROM you can put and test"
This .. its just... don't have words 4 this..
Now its all up to the devs..
That well and truly Sux ....
But i have very little to worry about
We're at XDA's !!!!!!!!
gogol said:
At least officially, but un-officially I would bet that some gurus from XDA-dev will make it happen ... when the WP7S is available end of this year. They should be able to get the ROM and port it to HD2. That's my feeling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.
I hardly think that because the HD2 has 2 extra buttons this would prevent WP7S from running on it! Seriously, who are they trying to kid?
Hmm, there's some more stuff in the linked article that the original poster doesn't quote:
There could be more to this than just the sin of having two buttons too many, however: Tony Wilkinson, Business Operations Director for Microsoft Australia, told APC that “there are some hardware components that the HD doesn’t have”.
We’re not sure what those are because Microsoft has not revealed its complete recipe for Windows Phone 7 devices – that’s due to take place at this month’s MIX developer conference in Las Vegas – but we’ve heard that a pixel-pushing graphics chip might be on the checklist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming that it's not just a matter of buttons, I'd say that makes even an unofficial HD2 port a bit less likely, but we'll see.
Completely understood.
We could wait that ROM anyway, whether leaked or come from official WP7S phone later this year or God knows where.
There are many amazing things which were unthinkable done by XDA devs here. They just too many to mention here ... HTC Kaiser missing drivers, WM6.5 on <insert HTC devices>, Android on WM, etc.
Even if it could not be done, but having HOPE is not a bad thing ...
However, certainly, this could potentially put a halt on HD2 sales.
Shasarak said:
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ruudfood said:
I hardly think that because the HD2 has 2 extra buttons this would prevent WP7S from running on it! Seriously, who are they trying to kid?
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Click to collapse
It could certainly be enough to prevent an official WP7 upgrade for the HD2, and we now have word from an actual Microsoft representative which suggeststhat this is indeed the case.
That reminds me, where's Freyberry? He owes a number of people a grovelling apology for insulting them when they suggested that the buttons on the HD2 might have an impact on WP7 availability....
gogol said:
Even if it could not be done, but having HOPE is not a bad thing ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having hope is a bad thing if anyone buys an HD2 because of that hope, only to have it proven unrealistic.
gogol said:
We could wait that ROM anyway, whether leaked or come from official WP7S phone later this year or God knows where.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A ROM from an official WP7S phone almost certainly wouldn't be adequate. Unless every single hardware component in it is identical to the HD2, you would still have no way of getting hold of the necessary drivers. So if, say, the camera in this phone wasn't the same as the one in the HD2, then it would be impossible to make a cooked WP7 HD2 ROM from it in which the camera works. The only way you could do it is if there is a group of official WP7S phones which between them contain every single component in the HD2 - not just the chipset but the camera, proximity sensor, touchscreen, everything.
I bet the "5 buttons" reason is a bad excuse to not having to reveal more info prior to MIX.
My guess that this reason is BS because of the announcement of LG's first WP7 phone, this is taken from the article about it on neowin:
The device sports a QWERTY slide-out keyboard as well as a touch screen and the three standard Windows Phone 7 prescribed buttons: back, home and search. Other buttons include power, camera and volume controls.
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Click to collapse
source:
http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-reveals-first-windows-phone-7-series-handset-from-lg
Obviously this phone has more buttons than the HD2 and will be running WP7.
Shasarak said:
It could certainly be enough to prevent an official WP7 upgrade for the HD2, and we now have word from an actual Microsoft representative which suggeststhat this is indeed the case.
That reminds me, where's Freyberry? He owes a number of people a grovelling apology for insulting them when they suggested that the buttons on the HD2 might have an impact on WP7 availability....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No comment on this he he he
Shasarak said:
Having hope is a bad thing if anyone buys an HD2 because of that hope, only to have it proven unrealistic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct, but I also said:
However, certainly, this could potentially put a halt on HD2 sales.
What I mean with hope is for "current owner" of HD2
Shasarak said:
A ROM from an official WP7S phone almost certainly wouldn't be adequate. Unless every single hardware component in it is identical to the HD2, you would still have no way of getting hold of the necessary drivers. So if, say, the camera in this phone wasn't the same as the one in the HD2, then it would be impossible to make a cooked WP7 HD2 ROM from it in which the camera works. The only way you could do it is if there is a group of official WP7S phones which between them contain every single component in the HD2 - not just the chipset but the camera, proximity sensor, touchscreen, everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fully understand. But do you think all the hardware components would be exactly different?
Learning from past experience, most if not all past devices still have the same hardware components. That's why XDA can still port WM6.5 to some of old devices.
Why would suddenly the hardware is now totally differents?
Even if it is new hardware component, I would think it will be backward compatible with the old hardware.
Well, it could be that the new OS requires to use "new drivers format" for that "old hardware" (HD2) ...
That is quite obvious.
So, either the new WP7S devices are still using most the same hardware components, which means the WP7S drivers will be somehow backward compatible with old hardware.
Or, some super clever XDA dev will create new drivers for HD2 using new device driver format of WP7S. This sounds impossible, but .... who knows?
I won't believe any article until MIX. Especially an article which doesn't mention the HD2 in the quote
I see the words "current phones" and "HD", but no HD2 in there. But hey, I'm clutching at straws now really!
gogol said:
Or, some super clever XDA dev will create new drivers for HD2 using new device driver format of WP7S. This sounds impossible, but .... who knows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
New kernel, relatively new architecture will mean that it will be effectively like porting HD2 to Android...only with zero documentation.
reverse-engineering drivers? just look at the problems present in android-development... ^^ the problem is you need exact (!) specifications of the hardware to start with - and that's closed-source. even after that it's not easy.
but even IF some magician would pull this off, i have learned one thing with the x1: not having an official firmware adapted to the OS you want to use deprives you of a stable base, it will always be patchwork at best. (and i'm talking 6.1 -> 6.5 here, where the difference isn't that big)
I was going to buy a touch hd2 for 425 off craigslist with the complete idea that this phone would be wp7s. Seeing that it won't has left me stay with my reliable tp2...
its a shame actually I wanted the hd2 to be wp7s for obvious reasons
If this is true I will sell my hd2 soon!
I mean the buttons... its nothing but a lie, its not the true reason!
They could have told more early that the HD2 wont get an upgrade they just didnt because they want to sell it!
Then the "russian twitter" thing was only marketing to sell a phone with dead OS..
But I still don't realy believe this.. windows [email protected] told that "there 'may' be information next month".. well it is " next month" but the hd2 wasnt mentioned directly as far as I can see..
Cheers
If the buttons are the culprit, I bet the problem isn't the extra buttons, but lack of the Search button. Sure the Home one could be remapped, but what about consistency, ease of use for consumers etc.?
Blade0rz said:
I won't believe any article until MIX. Especially an article which doesn't mention the HD2 in the quote
I see the words "current phones" and "HD", but no HD2 in there. But hey, I'm clutching at straws now really!
New kernel, relatively new architecture will mean that it will be effectively like porting HD2 to Android...only with zero documentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, it looks like nothing is set in stone yet:
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010...-because-of-hardware-buttons-dont-be-so-sure/
chris5932 said:
I mean the buttons... its nothing but a lie, its not the true reason!
They could have told more early that the HD2 wont get an upgrade they just didnt because they want to sell it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be a good reason for HTC not to offer the upgrade, but I don't see how Microsoft sells more WP7 licences by not allowing the HD2 to be upgraded. From Microsoft's perspective what matters is getting an absolutely consistent look-and-feel across all WP7 phones. So I find it plausible that Microsoft might refuse to sell HTC any licences to install WP7 on HD2's, given the lack of a search button.
I'm not giving up hope yet though. They've already announced the button requirement. If the HD2 was going to be disqualified for this reason why not say so? I don't think this is over. She's all the way on the other side of the planet from Redmond and most likely less 'in the know' just for this reason. Just this Saturday a much more knowledgeable MS rep said 'Wait for MIX' in regards to the HD2 getting an upgrade.
The statement leads me to believe that the MS rep in a far flung region is just interpreting the 3 button requirement to automatically mean that MS won't allow any current devices to get the upgrade and not them having actual info that the HD2 will specifically not get the upgrade. That and MS will need to get some sort of hardware in devs hands before official availability. An emulator is nice and all but real hardware is key. The HD2 is supposedly launching here in the States right after MIX. Coincidence? Maybe I'm just grasping at straws but fingers crossed nonetheless.
Shasarak said:
Well, as has been pointed out in many other threads, producing a cooked ROM based on a new CE kernel is a completely different proposition from porting between different versions of WM5 and 6. Whether we see a cooked HD2 ROM based on WP7 is pretty much entirely dependent on three things:
1) There needs to be a beta WP7 ROM for the HD2 produced by Microsoft and/or HTC. (Evidence that this exists is strong, but not absolutely conclusive).
2) The beta version has to be recent enough that there is no change to the driver architecture between it and the released version.
3) The beta has to be leaked.
IMO, the last of those is not by any means guaranteed this time round.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're making some assumptions that aren't fair to make at this point in time. If the hardware is nearly identical to the HD2 (which it will be) why would it need an entirely new bootloader as compared to other WP7 devices? #2 (and therefore 3 as well) doesn't even make sense as they're developing this on CE. It's not like they're going to change CE versions mid-dev. The driver architecture won't change. MS has stated that they're doing all the driver dev, not the OEMs. As long as the HD2 matches the chassis specs, there's no reason it will need different drivers. The only thing that concerns me is the bootloader as it's my understanding that it's unique per device and likely a WM6 bootloader won't be able to boot WP7.
Shasarak said:
That would be a good reason for HTC not to offer the upgrade, but I don't see how Microsoft sells more WP7 licences by not allowing the HD2 to be upgraded. From Microsoft's perspective what matters is getting an absolutely consistent look-and-feel across all WP7 phones. So I find it plausible that Microsoft might refuse to sell HTC any licences to install WP7 on HD2's, given the lack of a search button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I agree with most ppl here.. lets just wait til MIX..
There are severall things said that fight each other!
MS:"info for hd2 may next month","no upgrade for WinM 6.X phones"
HTC:"HD2 is able to run WP7's",
HTC twitter:"HD2 will get an upgrade" ..
I think the chances are still as before the article but make ur own guess.
Cheers
I wonder if microsoft is using some sort of qualcomm system on chip like there new MSM7x30 soc. As microsoft is only letting snapdragon devices, im sure they have a certain gpu that they have to use so the performance is the same on all handsets. so a SOC would make sense and that might be why the hd2 does not meet the specs.
Also i dont think the hd2 has 4 point multi touch.
Also i think microsoft wont let them upgrade as they wont 3 buttons only on the front so to let the hd2 have a upgrade on to wm7 makes a mockery of wm7 requirements.
Im done guys with Wm my Hd2 is up for sale no update for hardware that can run Wp7 they can have wp7 my hd2 is up for sale and i just picked up my new Nexus one just flashed the new HTC Desire Rom running at 1.3GHZ Im happy Hello Android mabey next time WM mabey next time
Maybe next time, punctuation. Maybe next time...
Personally, I'm in the 'Buy a phone for what it can do now, not what I hope it might be able to do in the future' school of thought.
Sure, no WP7 is a disappointment, but if you own an HD2 (as I did for a while), you got what was being promised. For me, it was the lack of a keyboard that made me get a TP2, but the HD2 is still one helluva phone.
No announcement has been made. I'm gonna laugh if the HD2 ends up getting an update.
bye bye cry baby, i swear you guys crack me up. how can you be upset when you bought the phone without anything being announced if you bought it because YOU THOUGHT it was getting an update thats your own fault, ms didnt tell you ANYTHING. and the hd2 is gonna have wp7s soon enough, maybe not officially but who cares, custom roms>>>>>>official roms
I would be glad to take your HTC HD2 off your hands
The forum would be way better without such threads. But on the flip side it's funny to see how stupid some people are (sorry but it's the truth)
RAMMANN said:
The forum would be way better without such threads. But on the flip side it's funny to see how stupid some people are (sorry but it's the truth)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. Im mad they are not releasing Iphone OS to my HD2.
(eventually the chefs will be making a version for the HD2, so come on.)
kel16harris said:
bye bye cry baby, i swear you guys crack me up. how can you be upset when you bought the phone without anything being announced if you bought it because YOU THOUGHT it was getting an update thats your own fault, ms didnt tell you ANYTHING. and the hd2 is gonna have wp7s soon enough, maybe not officially but who cares, custom roms>>>>>>official roms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not so much the lack of an upgrade that's the problem, it's the combination of that plus WP7 being incompatible with Windows Mobile software. That's one thing nobody was predicting a few months ago, and it means that there is no longer any reason for a commercial software company to continue working on any Windows Mobile project - see, for example, Adobe's decision to scrap FlashPlayer on WinMo.
To say "your phone won't get an OS upgrade" is one thing, but to say "your phone won't get an upgrade, and incidentally we also neglected to mention that your phone's current OS would cease to be a viable platform for commercial software about three months after you buy it" is something else.
And it is not by any means certain that there will be custom ROMs based on WP7.
leeuwtjevanjuda said:
Indeed. Im mad they are not releasing Iphone OS to my HD2.
(eventually the chefs will be making a version for the HD2, so come on.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it. The reason chefs have been able to make WM6.5 for older devices is because it is still based off of the same kernel as 5.0-6.1. If you are familiar with cooking ROMs for older devices, you would realize that we are still using 6.0 drivers on all of these 6.5 ROMs. Once the kernel changes, however, those drivers will most-likely be useless.
And yeah, buying the HD2 probably wasn't the best idea.
apreichner said:
I doubt it. The reason chefs have been able to make WM6.5 for older devices is because it is still based off of the same kernel as 5.0-6.1. If you are familiar with cooking ROMs for older devices, you would realize that we are still using 6.0 drivers on all of these 6.5 ROMs. Once the kernel changes, however, those drivers will most-likely be useless.
And yeah, buying the HD2 probably wasn't the best idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's also possible to run 6.5 on the Himalaya, which is originally based on PPC 2003 = different wince kernel.
RAMMANN said:
It's also possible to run 6.5 on the Himalaya, which is originally based on PPC 2003 = different wince kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the Himalaya still got WM5, so that still means it got WinCE 5.2 kernel one way or another. Once it got a 5.2 kernel, it can run anything from WM5 all the way up to WM6.5.x
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
But the Himalaya still got WM5, so that still means it got WinCE 5.2 kernel one way or another. Once it got a 5.2 kernel, it can run anything from WM5 all the way up to WM6.5.x
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
alright that finally explains it. Didn't know they got an official WM5 release.
The HTC HD2 is an impressive device even without WP7 As for upgrading it, there will be a debate but, they will chose to release a HD3 instead. Feel free to sign the petition though,lol http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/hd2windowsphone7/
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=5475&tag=content;col1
I'm quite on the contrary
Ironically a handful of days ago I made similar decision. Except for that I was really, really pissed off by Android and decided to switch back to WinMo. So I got a HD2.
Now I'm (again) having:
- The capability to play almost every media format on my phone
- *REAL* GPS navigation suites
- Serious, polished, and visually attractive games, by lots
- Proper tool to manage my personal (2 of them) and business mail accounts, with attachment, reply record and everything
- Excellent applications to read *AND EDIT* Word and Excel files. It's vital to have this as a translator who frequently has to work on-the-go.
- PDB, PRC, CHM, LIT, TXT, RTF, DOC, DOCX, HTML, PDF in short, whatever document format I may need to read. And the tools to do this are generally extremely polished
- The freedom of setting the phone on true mute mode once and for all, unlike on certain idiot OS where you set the thing on mute, all system notifications get silenced, while everything else from media player to games continue to sing how ever loud it likes
And what I no long have:
- Don't have to pick from a thousand not so different but frequently buggy cooked ROMs
- Don't have to flash my phone like once per week to keep up with new version of cooked ROM franchise
- Don't have to comb through 10K apps, filter 90% of them (crapware swarm), and pray "God give me some actually useful app please, amen"
Anyway, I'm not sure why so many people chanting around "Android is much, much by the outdated WinMo". I believe that the value of a smartphone is reflected by what it can achieve. WinMo so far is still much better than Android on satisfying my professional and entertainment needs. Yep its UI is no match for Android's (at least less colorful). But I can't care less about that. Beautiful or not, get the job done first.
As to WP7 update. Well, I'm having great faith on XDA. Even if Microsoft and HTC decide to screw HD2 owners big time, chances are pretty good the magnificent young men (and women) here can make an unofficial update happen. It doesn't really matter for me if this is not happening. Right now I'm having everything I need already, and I'm happy. WP7 is only a plus.
it's so true ....
chassit said:
Ironically a handful of days ago I made similar decision. Except for that I was really, really pissed off by Android and decided to switch back to WinMo. So I got a HD2.
Now I'm (again) having:
- The capability to play almost every media format on my phone
- *REAL* GPS navigation suites
- Serious, polished, and visually attractive games, by lots
- Proper tool to manage my personal (2 of them) and business mail accounts, with attachment, reply record and everything
- Excellent applications to read *AND EDIT* Word and Excel files. It's vital to have this as a translator who frequently has to work on-the-go.
- PDB, PRC, CHM, LIT, TXT, RTF, DOC, DOCX, HTML, PDF in short, whatever document format I may need to read. And the tools to do this are generally extremely polished
- The freedom of setting the phone on true mute mode once and for all, unlike on certain idiot OS where you set the thing on mute, all system notifications get silenced, while everything else from media player to games continue to sing how ever loud it likes
And what I no long have:
- Don't have to pick from a thousand not so different but frequently buggy cooked ROMs
- Don't have to flash my phone like once per week to keep up with new version of cooked ROM franchise
- Don't have to comb through 10K apps, filter 90% of them (crapware swarm), and pray "God give me some actually useful app please, amen"
Anyway, I'm not sure why so many people chanting around "Android is much, much by the outdated WinMo". I believe that the value of a smartphone is reflected by what it can achieve. WinMo so far is still much better than Android on satisfying my professional and entertainment needs. Yep its UI is no match for Android's (at least less colorful). But I can't care less about that. Beautiful or not, get the job done first.
As to WP7 update. Well, I'm having great faith on XDA. Even if Microsoft and HTC decide to screw HD2 owners big time, chances are pretty good the magnificent young men (and women) here can make an unofficial update happen. It doesn't really matter for me if this is not happening. Right now I'm having everything I need already, and I'm happy. WP7 is only a plus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
That’s what comes to my mind when I think Windows Mobile vs. Android
Actually I really don't care if Windows Phone 7 doesn’t get an "official" release for HD2.... Its current state is a "Solid Windows Mobile 6.5 PocketPC" which is exactly what was intended for it to be.
enjoy your little crappy java machine LOL that'll show em.
nucentury08 said:
Im done guys with Wm my Hd2 is up for sale no update for hardware that can run Wp7 they can have wp7 my hd2 is up for sale and i just picked up my new Nexus one just flashed the new HTC Desire Rom running at 1.3GHZ Im happy Hello Android mabey next time WM mabey next time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"mabey" go to school and learn to spell next time? Just as a suggestion..
For Sale
My Xperia X1 is for sale as I have found out that it won't run Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition. Im also going to buy a Nexus One as it has a better chance of running Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition first! LOL
leba837 said:
My Xperia X1 is for sale as I have found out that it won't run Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition. Im also going to buy a Nexus One as it has a better chance of running Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition first! LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I PM'd you with my offer
I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry
Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.
I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.
+1 good post b
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
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So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..
Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.
style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
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I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.
style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
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No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.
Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
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The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.
If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~
vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
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HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
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Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.
Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S
think about it:
1-they are preventing HTC from making their own UI (the main difference between HTC and all the other makers). basically preventing them of having the advantage they had over other Winmo phone makers
2-they prevented hd2 from getting wp7 over really stupid reasons (it has 5 buttons instead of 3, and it has removable flash memory)
3-they only allowed capacitive screens for WP7. the UI with be big and too simplified like an iphone. this will render HTC patent for their future touch technology that allows for the use of stylus on capacitive screen to allow for accurate touch like resistive screens
4-htc has more Android phones in development.
5-none of the 3 demonstrated (samsung.Asus, LG) WP7 phones came from them.
6- they went on the record saying that Apple-HTC lawsuit might be a good thing.
I get the feeling that HTC are very annoyed with what Microsoft is going with WP7 like the rest of us
Exactly what I was thinking about... and I think it's Microsofts very dirty trick as HTC was keeping Windows Mobile alive so MS should be more grateful!
I'm sure their relationship is great and HTC has some wonderful WP7S phones in the works. I'm sure HTC knew details about WP7 phones long before we did. And they start designing them long before we are aware of them.
HTC and MS will be just fine.
No
1. They're preventing everybody. TouchWiz, Panels, all that. Consistency. HTC had just been the most drastic coverup that everybody latched onto and used to mock Microsoft.
2. HD2 is a different animal. HD2 will be an old old phone at the end of the year. Why would anybody expect official support? More to the point, do you really believe that HTC would prefer to send you free OS upgrades rather than have you buy a new HD3?
3. Huh?
4. Of course they do. Diversified strategy makes sense and they have the scale for it. Microsoft has multiple hardware makers and HTC has multiple software makers
5. Those guys were aching to get their machines in the limelight for once.. it's always about HTC. Last year they showed off 6.5 on a Diamond2 and TouchPro2. XDA readers are so attached to HTC the simple existence of 3 non-HTC phones bothers them
6. Context, context. It's not like they said "Yeah Apple, kick HTC's ass!"
I get the feeling HTC is ready to sell Windows phones like hotcakes again
THE GRIZZ said:
think about it:
1-they are preventing HTC from making their own UI (the main difference between HTC and all the other makers). basically preventing them of having the advantage they had over other Winmo phone makers
2-they prevented hd2 from getting wp7 over really stupid reasons (it has 5 buttons instead of 3, and it has removable flash memory)
3-they only allowed capacitive screens for WP7. the UI with be big and too simplified like an iphone. this will render HTC patent for their future touch technology that allows for the use of stylus on capacitive screen to allow for accurate touch like resistive screens
4-htc has more Android phones in development.
5-none of the 3 demonstrated (samsung.Asus, LG) WP7 phones came from them.
6- they went on the record saying that Apple-HTC lawsuit might be a good thing.
I get the feeling that HTC are very annoyed with what Microsoft is going with WP7 like the rest of us
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ZaxXx said:
I think it's Microsofts very dirty trick as HTC was keeping Windows Mobile alive so MS should be more grateful!
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Dirty trick? Look at it from MS perspective: HTC is only known to you because at one point in time Microsoft picked them out of other Taiwanese manufacturers to be the guys to build the hardware for MS platform. They provided the platform which allowed HTC to become a relatively well-known brand (compare this to Apple's contract manufacturers). This was a fruitful partnerships for both companies. And what did HTC do? They were among the first to rush to support software which is a) free, b) opensource and c) coming from the largest and most dangerous official corporate MS hater in the world. Not only did HTC just release devices with that software, but they were key in improving it, whether by hiding the ugly default look or by compensating for the crippled unfinished nature of it (e.g. Exchange support). And it was also done with full knowledge of the fact that MS is having difficult time redefining their platform strategy, knowing that this was the perfect timing to hit MS when it's most vulnerable.
This is one of the larger stabs in the back in recent history of corporate partnerships. If I were Ballmer, I'd strike back with a vengeance, and that would be serious. If Jobs were Ballmer, you'd see bloodshed. Microsoft, on the other hand, is known to be very good in keeping relationships, and I think they're treating HTC very well. Maybe even better than they deserve.
What's with this whole imaginary HTC vs MS battle? Has there been some official "we are fighting" press release from either of them?
HTC is a hardware manufacturer which makes hardware for various platforms. MS is a software manufacturer that makes software for various platforms (they even have an iPhone app or two). These companies are fully aware what's happening years before the public is.
HTC makes money selling you NEW hardware (HD3)...not software updates to old hardware (HD2 this December). I'm sure HTC is hard at work on 2nd generation WP7 devices and is preparing to release is 1st generation of WP7 devices. There's nothing to fuss about, it's business as usual.
The money saved in the "free" Android OS is probably spent on development. This development cost is built into MS'es fee, so it's all a balance. The "free" thing is a misnomer. Somewhere in the development process Android has a cost.
HTC is fully free to put Sense in Android devices, let's see how Android Sense stacks up against WP7 next year The 3rd party UI shell game was a symptom of failure on MS'es part. They're now correcting this shortcoming of WM with Metro.
while HTC rather sell you the HD3 rather than upgrade the hd2, remember that equipped the hd2 with more than double the memory (576MB/1GB internal flash) than their previous phone. i find it hard to believe that they did that without having a plan to allow the HD2 to be upgradeable.
anyway, i really hate whare MS going with WP7, and i dont intend to get it with these many stupid iphonish limitations. its as if they dont know anything about what made their own winmo a good OS... but i digress
THE GRIZZ said:
while HTC rather sell you the HD3 rather than upgrade the hd2, remember that equipped the hd2 with more than double the memory (576MB/1GB internal flash) than their previous phone. i find it hard to believe that they did that without having a plan to allow the HD2 to be upgradeable.
anyway, i really hate whare MS going with WP7, and i dont intend to get it with these many stupid iphonish limitations. its as if they dont know anything about what made their own winmo a good OS... but i digress
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WinMo failed marketwise...face it. It's so-called advantages were also it's flaws.
Perhaps at some point in time before release dates were established, HD2 was supposed to be a WP7 phone?
Yeah, and also TMo HD2 has this Blockbuster app, right? That's a reason to have more storage already.
vangrieg said:
Dirty trick? Look at it from MS perspective: HTC is only known to you because at one point in time Microsoft picked them out of other Taiwanese manufacturers to be the guys to build the hardware for MS platform. They provided the platform which allowed HTC to become a relatively well-known brand (compare this to Apple's contract manufacturers). This was a fruitful partnerships for both companies. And what did HTC do? They were among the first to rush to support software which is a) free, b) opensource and c) coming from the largest and most dangerous official corporate MS hater in the world. Not only did HTC just release devices with that software, but they were key in improving it, whether by hiding the ugly default look or by compensating for the crippled unfinished nature of it (e.g. Exchange support). And it was also done with full knowledge of the fact that MS is having difficult time redefining their platform strategy, knowing that this was the perfect timing to hit MS when it's most vulnerable.
This is one of the larger stabs in the back in recent history of corporate partnerships. If I were Ballmer, I'd strike back with a vengeance, and that would be serious. If Jobs were Ballmer, you'd see bloodshed. Microsoft, on the other hand, is known to be very good in keeping relationships, and I think they're treating HTC very well. Maybe even better than they deserve.
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Very good points Sir. Good thing Ballmer is no Jobs. We'll see how hard HTC comes with WP7
WhyBe said:
Perhaps at some point in time before release dates were established, HD2 was supposed to be a WP7 phone?
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I think it's more likely that the HD2 was designed to be a WM7 phone; its hardware design probably predates the decision to drop the Photon project in favour of WP7S.
Shasarak said:
I think it's more likely that the HD2 was designed to be a WM7 phone; its hardware design probably predates the decision to drop the Photon project in favour of WP7S.
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this, or the specifications for WP7 drastically changed during the last couple months. but what do WE know????? nothing!
I still think HD2 is a GREAT device for WM 6.5
It will suck with WP7 so why do you guys even think about it?
I think that HTC will switch definitely to Android/Maemo and BrewOS platforms after this.
Microsoft hasn't been loyal with HTC and neither with their customers: this non-upgradeability thing sucks and remember that if Microsoft is still selling Windows Mobile is only because of HTC that has developed an entirely new UI (Sense, HTCMessaging, HTCSettings, Connection Manager, CommManager etc.) that has given new life to Windows Mobile, making other OEMs such as LG, Toshiba etc. to develop their own UIs for selling Windows Mobile and literally saving the Microsoft's handheld OSes market.
And it's clear that the HTC HD2 has been assembled on the mainline of Windows Mobile 7, because WM6.5(.5) lacks of native MultiTouch features and other hardware that is in our HD2 and that only WM7 and Android can use.
I will never buy any other Windows Mobile device after this. I won't go with BrewOS, but surely I'll buy a device with an open platform OS (and opensource too, imagine what OS I'm referring to!).
Microsoft has been a really good company when Bill Gates was managing all.
Steve Ballmer has done a good job in the PC OSes market (remember that Windows7 was planned by Gates, not by Ballmer and yes, of course, it even depends on the Windows Team, but think on it), but now, I have to say, Ballmer is literally "shutting down" the Microsoft supremacy on all.
Good luck with your future Linux devices!
kholk said:
I will never buy any other Windows Mobile device after this. I won't go with BrewOS, but surely I'll buy a device with an open platform OS (and opensource too, imagine what OS I'm referring to!).
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Symbian?
I like where it's heading... I'm getting an Android now, but I hope Symbian will get the developer support it deserves, cause the OS itself is great: youtube.com/watch?v=qapiWqJcAAE
Hi All
Is it possible, that will come an Windows Phone 7 rom on the HTC desire???
No development and posted before: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=814839
That would be nice!
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
mission impossible
Okay, here's the question that appears in most of these threads:
...Why would you want an inferior OS installed on top of Android?
I had a play with wp7 the other day, on the outside it seemed very very sleek and user friendly but when you read the reviews about what is missing.... urg. Its like going back to basics
Moved to Q&A. As was stated in the thread title, this is a question, so it should not be posted in development.
TermyJW said:
...Why would you want an inferior OS installed on top of Android?
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Inferiority is in the eye of the beholder. So please don't state an opinion as being fact. Some of us just like to try different things, whether it be roms or OSs.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
PinkySlayer said:
Inferiority is in the eye of the beholder. So please don't state an opinion as being fact. Some of us just like to try different things, whether it be roms or OSs.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
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Thats not true, wp7 is inferior to android in every respect, it might look deep, but if you read up on all.the things ms has left out, it can barely be called a smartphone os, more like a feature phone......
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
WP7 is effectively a brand new OS (primarily because the previous versions were so awful) so it is bound to be lacking in some areas. But compare Android v1 to WP7 v1 and the comparison isn't so favourable. M$ are sometimes slow to join the party, but give them time and the will give android a damned good run for its money.
But put all that aside, it all comes down to personal preference. I have worked with Windows since 3.1 and although I have tried various favours of Linux, I don't "get it". I used iOS for 18 months b4 Android and Android is inferior in many ways, but it comes down to personal preference.
And remember, XDA Developers was originally a Windows Mobile forum, so don't be so closed minded about people's individual choices.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
PinkySlayer said:
WP7 is effectively a brand new OS (primarily because the previous versions were so awful) so it is bound to be lacking in some areas. But compare Android v1 to WP7 v1 and the comparison isn't so favourable.
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Why would I compare Android V1 to WP7? Android V1 with WP1, maybe, but if you want to tell me that WP7, after so many editions/versions, is similar to Android V1, that is one huge fail my friend.
On topic.. it's impossible and I agree that the interest to put inferior OS is really low. Those are very few people that would have it installed (if it was possible) and soon after remove it. For those I don't think any dev would go the hard way of porting WP7 to Desire.
ljesh said:
Why would I compare Android V1 to WP7? Android V1 with WP1, maybe, but if you want to tell me that WP7, after so many editions/versions, is similar to Android V1, that is one huge fail my friend.
On topic.. it's impossible and I agree that the interest to put inferior OS is really low. Those are very few people that would have it installed (if it was possible) and soon after remove it. For those I don't think any dev would go the hard way of porting WP7 to Desire.
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Come on, you say that something is impossible on a developers forum?
There was a short youtube movie a few months back, which showed WP7 booting up on a HD2. So it's not impossible, it's just a question if there are some devs that want to put time in it
ljesh said:
Why would I compare Android V1 to WP7? Android V1 with WP1, maybe, but if you want to tell me that WP7, after so many editions/versions, is similar to Android V1, that is one huge fail my friend.
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And Android v1 was a development of....? Linux. Hardly a new development, whereas WP7 is new from the ground up.
The point is, some of us would love to experiment with different OSs but don't want to, or can't afford to buy new hardware to do so. Whereas some other people are so blinkered that they think Android is the ultimatimate OS - this is a subjective decision based on personal preference, not an absolute quantifiable fact.
ljesh said:
Those are very few people that would have it installed (if it was possible) and soon after remove it
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In your opinion. As I said before, this was a Windows Mobile forum long before it incorporated other OSs and devices, but you wouldn't know that as you've only been on here for a year or so.
PinkySlayer said:
And Android v1 was a development of....? Linux. Hardly a new development, whereas WP7 is new from the ground up.
The point is, some of us would love to experiment with different OSs but don't want to, or can't afford to buy new hardware to do so. Whereas some other people are so blinkered that they think Android is the ultimatimate OS - this is a subjective decision based on personal preference, not an absolute quantifiable fact.
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your missing the point totally, im no fanboy trust me, but although android is based on an established os, it it googles first attempt at creating an operating system where as microsoft have been doing this for well over a decade. anyway my point is android is a smartphone os, all microsoft have created is a ms iphone, wp7 is not a smartphone os more like a feature phone os, windows mobile was more like the pc version of windows, where as wp7 is just a microsoft phone, it leaves little for developers to create, as they have to do this and that and plaster ms all over the place just like apple enforce with the iphone.
android has alot more scope for development and alot more freedom for developers to develop there ideas. anyway the bottom line is wp7 is not open source, there will never be any source code available for it, this makes porting it an almost impossible task, i dare say i could count the people on 1 hand that have the ability to do this task
ps ive been on here for alot longer than may 10, i changed my tag when i moved to android, my first device was a htc kaiser
Call me Mr Argumentative, but...
AndroHero said:
your missing the point totally, im no fanboy trust me, but although android is based on an established os, it it googles first attempt at creating an operating system
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Google didn't create an OS, they ported an established one.
AndroHero said:
anyway my point is android is a smartphone os, all microsoft have created is a ms iphone, wp7 is not a smartphone os more like a feature phone os
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Definition of smartphone: "A smartphone is a mobile phone offering advanced capabilities, often with PC-like functionality".
Definition of feature phone: "A mobile phone or mobile (also called cellphone and handphone) is an electronic device used for mobile telecommunications (mobile telephone, text messaging or data transmission)"
I think that your understanding of these terms is way off.
AndroHero said:
it leaves little for developers to create, as they have to do this and that and plaster ms all over the place just like apple enforce with the iphone. android has alot more scope for development and alot more freedom for developers to develop there ideas.
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You seem to suggest that a smartphone needsto be opensource whereas most smartphone OSs are in fact proprietary, e.g. Blackberry, iOS, WebOS, BadaOS and before Symbian went open source a year ago, closed source would have accounted for about 80% of the market!
AndroHero said:
anyway the bottom line is wp7 is not open source, there will never be any source code available for it, this makes porting it an almost impossible task, i dare say i could count the people on 1 hand that have the ability to do this task
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Fair comment, but it would still be very cool.
PinkySlayer said:
And Android v1 was a development of....? Linux. Hardly a new development, whereas WP7 is new from the ground up.
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I think you will find that WP7 is based on Windows CE 6, with some elements from the forthcoming CE 7. So not at all new really considering that CE 6 dates from 2006!
Regards,
Dave
You are correct, it is a CE6/CE7 hybrid, so it has much in common with Android in that they are new platforms based on existing underlying technology. Shud have checked my facts on that one.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
People who say that it isn't possible, check here:
WP7 running on the HD2.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=832533
Lennyz1988 said:
People who say that it isn't possible, check here:
WP7 running on the HD2.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=832533
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There's potentially a very big difference!
The existing WM bootloader (IPL/SPL etc) on the HD2 may make it possible to boot WP7 on it. I'm not saying this is definitely the case, but it does seem quite likely to me. In addition, they are talking about this being an early build of WP7 - again, it's quite likely that the HD2 was used as a test platform for WP7.
That's not to say that it would be impossible to get WP7 running on a Desire, but it does given potential reason why it would be a lot harder than on the HD2.
Regards,
Dave