Develop Bugs

Windows Phone 7 will have multitasking.

I'm opening a new thread so people don't have to dig thru other threads to find this.
Leaked documents show that Windows Phone 7 will indeed have multitasking after approval by Microsoft. Appearently you will need to ask Microsoft for special permission, and as such you will need to prove your need for multitasking. I'm sure it will be limited to apps such as Pandora that show a specific need for running in the background.
http://www.wmexperts.com/leak-windows-phone-7-documents-developers

Thanks for posting this. It looks like I need to start learning silverlight which I expected would be the case.
The multitasking is annoying. I dont want to have to ask for permission to enable this. Do they plan on controlling this through the app store? If its just some hidden API's they would get leaked in minutes and everyone could use them.

Weird interpretation
From the leaked documents provided, I cannot figure out how did they come to the conclusion that developers would need to ask for permission to do multitasking. It seems that the authors of the article are not really technical and had things mixed up. OEMs and MOs will have to request access to some native APIs if Managed API and provided limited native API set is not enough for their needs, which is something totally different from processes and threads. Processes and threads, or in layman terms multitasking is business as usual. I don't see any restrictions there.

Of course the OS can multitask. That's never been a question.
The question is whether third party applications will be allowed to run in the background.
There is no word on whether this is the case, and in fact, every official statement from Microsoft currently hints to this not being the case. It seems like they're going the Apple way of not allowing third party applications to run in the background.

Did anybody read the document? There's no connection between multitasking and approval. It's not going to be done with hidden APIs that can get leaked. It's not completely clear but here's what it seems to say to me:
Anyone can write C#/Silverlight apps that use the .NET Compact Framework and install them. Hopefully this will let you do most things you want to do. The big problem would be if .NET CF 4 is missing any of the "normal" useful stuff. Personally, if I can interact with calls, texts, contacts, location services (e.g. GPS) and the internet then I'm happy.
If you want to write unmanaged (i.e. C++) code or call some extra managed APIs you'll need to get the code signed. This will probably go through a similar process to Apple's app store. This should only be required for low level stuff - drivers, etc. The wording of the doc suggests that it would only be phone carriers that are likely to be using this.
Multitasking isn't mentioned, so it's only guesswork between now and MIX10.

freyberry said:
Of course the OS can multitask. That's never been a question.
The question is whether third party applications will be allowed to run in the background.
There is no word on whether this is the case, and in fact, every official statement from Microsoft currently hints to this not being the case. It seems like they're going the Apple way of not allowing third party applications to run in the background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it may work more like the way Android does than the way iPhone does. Android multitasks properly, but suspends non-foreground processes. Looking at the built in calendar demo, it pops in and pops out to the same place, so it's not being restarted, merely resumed.

l3v5y said:
I think it may work more like the way Android does than the way iPhone does. Android multitasks properly, but suspends non-foreground processes. Looking at the built in calendar demo, it pops in and pops out to the same place, so it's not being restarted, merely resumed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not how multitasking on Android works. Android applications save their state when they are sent to the background, but they continue to run. They are not suspended, unless the system runs out of RAM.
If the system runs out of RAM, then the "oldest" process that's running in the background gets killed. Since it saved its state when it was sent to the background, you can reopen it and continue where you left off.
That's exactly how multitasking *should* work.

freyberry said:
That's exactly how multitasking *should* work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Isn't it the same as stated by MS that apps will be "paused" in background? Also, how is it going to help my satnav app be at the right position when I minimize the dialer in a call?

vangrieg said:
Really? Isn't it the same as stated by MS that apps will be "paused" in background? Also, how is it going to help my satnav app be at the right position when I minimize the dialer in a call?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it is not at all the same. Read my post again.

guys take a look at this.. this guy is playing music while navigating trough the phone..
http://www.wmexperts.com/wme-mwc-video-hands-no-2-windows-phone-7-series?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+wmexperts+(WMExperts)&utm_content=Twitter

may i ask for this thread to list facts only?
i would love this thread not to be dragged into the debate of hints and speculations. I would say, as long as we don't have something solid let's keep the speculations at the other thread.
i have seen some videos where by mistake shows multi tasking cappabilites, and i believe as long as the cappability is there (even if locked down) we can find a way around it. but we are still in the dark, maybe Microsoft will simply say that hey developers, yes we have full multitasking but not for .net cf apps, only unmanaged code can? maybe! just to ensure that not anyone can write an app to stay in the background.
Mostly the usage of multitasking is not that high, i don't keep much apps in memory. infact alot of the users of Windows Mobile (5, 6.x.x) do set their phones to close the app on X click. and most of us (including me) didn't want to run multiple apps in the background, actually that's why HTC built the Taskmanager into their ROMS. even SonyEricsson.
Of course there are exceptions for that, i would love for my Navigation app to stay in the background while my friend is playing on the phone.
the main point is we don't have any clue yet, if we get any info that is official/confirmed leak then we can get either UPSET or releafed
take it easy mates.

young blade said:
guys take a look at this.. this guy is playing music while navigating trough the phone.
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Click to collapse
Music (Zune) is not a 3rd party app.

pilgrim011 said:
Music (Zune) is not a 3rd party app.
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Click to collapse
okay so its about 3th party apps in running in the background.
I'm sure it will be possible.. whats the point of not doing it and having 500+ ram in the device..
thats like tuning a car up to 999 of horse power and restricting it down to 300.

young blade said:
okay so its about 3th party apps in running in the background.
I'm sure it will be possible.. whats the point of not doing it and having 500+ ram in the device..
thats like tuning a car up to 999 of horse power and restricting it down to 300.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't be so sure. Unfortunately, Microsoft is heading Apple's path, the dark side...

Honestly if they make is so you have to actually program it to run the background instead of natively making everything work in the background, I beleive that would be a good thing. I have to pull the task manager up to close every app after I open it because I don't really need it in the background. For example when I use a calculator to compute something why does it need to stay up after I'm done with the calculation?
On the otherhand, If they are making it so you have to get direct permission from Microsoft and not just from the OS to run in the background that probably means they want some more money or something outta the deal and I don't think thats the best way to go. Phone these days usually have a good amount of ram to be able to run task in the background and they shouldn't underpower the device if it can handle it.

I don't think that iPhone is the way to the dark side.... they are able to make "dumb users" (I don't think you are dumb, it's a way to put it into), a way to make what they want with their device. As a higher user, you know how to manage properly a system unmanaged because you know to play properly with the system, resources, and more over, but some people just has problems knowing how to open a file...
Really, the iPhone way is bring the IT technologies to people that not usually knows or likes the IT, and use them because they must, or they like the services but not the tech itself.
I belive that maybe WP7S has become so iPhone, and we may want to drop it, but really, the human history has ever been the same. It's not about how good or how many features has a device/technology/thing, it's about how many people use it in daily life. Try to think about a space travel agency, the people will believe in space travels once people become able to go to the moon by themselves, not because the NASA did it. And no matter that NASA was able to take a "car" for the astronauts and an space agency only can bring you an your package, it just doesn't matter.

Yes, it will indeed multitask for the native apps at least. In the presentation, Joe goes to a maps app, then goes right back to the calendar app where he was. Looks like the iPhone push stuff.

Kloc said:
Honestly if they make is so you have to actually program it to run the background instead of natively making everything work in the background, I beleive that would be a good thing.
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Click to collapse
That would be the best thing they could do. That's how it *should* work.

yes, not all apps require to be able to run in the background. things like calculator for example, i hate killing it using task manager.
things like sending sms or email, when I hit the send button and close the gui, the msg should be sent to the background service and really close remove the gui interface from the memory. i hate killing tmail.exe.
and there are a lot more examples why current winmo multitasking is not right. tweaks required just to be able to completely close app like htc album, opera, etc.
i am glad that finally microsoft will address this seriously. i am not surprise that ability to run in the background will be controlled by them. it is still better being controlled rather than not allowed at all (like Apple iPhone?).
freyberry said:
That would be the best thing they could do. That's how it *should* work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Careful, careful....!!
You don't know HOW they're going to adress the issue. If they completely forbid multitasking, like Apple, then things will get a LOT WORSE than they are now.
I agree that not every application has to run in the background. But some MUST run in the background and it would be a huge failure if they didn't allow third party developers to use multitasking at all, like Apple.
Multitasking for each and every application, like on WM6.5, is still a lot better than no multitasking at all!!

Advantages over iPhone

Seeing as WP7 will be almost as crippled as the iPhone, let's see ways in which it will be better, besides replaceable battery and memory card(and it's not certain every OEM will follow up on those either). So far it has two weaknesses that only the iPhone has: Lack of multitasking and apps must go through the marketplace.
In order to pick up iPhone users it will have to offer some advantage that the average iPhoner will notice.
Some advantages:
Information at a glance a la today screen with the hubs. iPhone has nothing like this.
It will (supposedly) have some degree of multitasking.
Two more hardware buttons.

Its funny since I've had my HD2 I've not really used multitasking and when I had my iPhone only not being able to use Spotify in the background bugged me so maybe certainly for me multitasking isn't a be all and end all.

Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.

Jim Coleman said:
In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
The hubs/services (I'm not sure what MS is calling these) system looks good; getting new relative options available on multiple hubs just from installing a single app (like they demo'd with Facebook) should make all the apps work together much better than on an iPhone. I already want to try to make one to generate a music playlist based on past plays, and another to find lyrics to the currently playing song; If I understand the system properly, these would automatically integrate into any 3rd party apps using the appropriate media API's.
Also the context-sensitive search looks to be awesome.
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.

weesals said:
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?

weesals said:
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time. Microsoft will not publish any documentation about native API's. To get access to them the manufacturers will have to apply to Microsoft on a case by case basis. If Microsoft judges that a native API is required (and if there actually is one that might help) then only at that point will they release any information, and a condition of this is that they will vet the resulting piece of software to verify that the native API is being used correctly, and forbid the release of the software if it isn't.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?

why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!

The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

gogol said:
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that isnt aways based on the OS or software, but the quality of the touch screen.

Jim Coleman said:
Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This definitely seems like the best thing to do for multitasking in WP7.
We are going to need a task manager though...
As for comparing to the iPhone:
-WP7 will be available in different hardware configurations, giving the consumer a choice in the style and capability of their device.
-Xbox integration, which will most likely include Arcade games (ported for playability of touchscreens)
-Better hardware standards
-Not quite as locked down (hopefully)

RAMMANN said:
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because that's where the money is.

Seems people are struggling to come up with any, maybe something magical will appear in the next few weeks, although I doubt it, the advantages of WM seem like they will be gone with WP7, people on forums like this and blogs have been asking for a windows mobile iphone [without being an iphone] and it looks like they're going to heed the demand.

The most important advantages are gone.
They've made an exact copy and think it is enough. But it's not. When you try to catch up, you have to be better.
There's almost nothing WP7 is better at. It's an exact copy of iPhone OS with a better UI on top, but lacking the thousands of applications. That's not going to be enough and I really can't think about a reason why consumers and developers would be excited about this.
(and don't get me wrong - I LOVE the UI - it's just not enough)

Free Microsoft Office (Document viewing, creation, downloading, and editing)
Abobe Flash Player 10.1 is coming
File downloads (possibly)
Apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager will likely come and be allowed
XBOX LIVE! Enough said.
Zune integration and support (I'm a Zune user)
1GHz Snapdragon is the processor minimum (This will lead to awesome apps and games)
WVGA display minimum (You might not care too much about this one, but I've seen the difference, and it's AMAZING!)
Bing search (That's just my preference.)
Contextual search (A handy feature, I suppose.)
There is not an app collection of 100,000 with most of which being totally useless. This means that you"ll be able to find the good apps.
Even if Microsoft won't allow apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager, all we would need to do would be to get all WinPhone7 users on XDA to install the XNA Game Studio (and possibly the Win Phone7 SDK) and we could simply upload .ccgame files to XDA instead of .cab files.

giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know! Why must smartphones always be compared to a simple feature phone! I've tried the iPhone/ iPod touch (3rd generation) at Best Buy stores, and, let's just say, they froze more and gave out more errors in 5 sec. than 5 WinMo devices did combined over the course of 2 hours. The iPhone's keyboard isn't too great either. It's (the errors thing) 100% true.

Jim Coleman said:
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Shasarak said:
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you're talking about native vs managed stuff, which is not the same as simply allowing an app to have a background process. True, AT&T and HTC will have to apply to for native API use for stuff relating to making calls, etc, but that was only about OEMS and network operators.
Regular 3rd party guys, of which there are many, will be expected to get a way to do what they need on the device. Pandora we've seen in Music, you can expect apps like Palringo showing up in People

burnblue said:
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean Microsoft will act like that. In fact, I'm sure they will not.

The mass market will not benefit from every joe having all the API's because it's going make programs that cause glitches/crashes/memory leaks, etc. They are doing what they think is best for mass market and that is make sure things work well on the device and everything is user friendly with the least amount of hiccups possible. So that means more restrictions on us.

^^^ +1
Jim Coleman said:
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This neither solves problems nor guarantees anything though. Poor code is still poor code. Too many apps running is STILL too many apps running (slows the UI). MS can police neither. So, your #2 solution really makes no sense and has no advantages. MS has no way of predicting who will run what app and when on their phones. What if a user chooses to run several "Type 2" apps? Will you get some sort of error message? Will the MS police arrest you for ruining the UI experience? What happens after several years of approved type 2 apps hitting the market? Now were back to the same problems of WM.

Dude, we're talking about 1Ghz+, 512MB+ RAM phones here! You can run lots of apps without slowing anything down. Really, the "multitasking slows down the UI" argument is utter bull****. A good OS handles multitasking in a way that doesn't slow down anything. Restrictions are only necessary if the OS itself sucks. A good OS doesn't need them.

WP7S Will Have Multitasking

I just read a article about WP7S regarding multitasking. This was posted by L3v5y. For those who don't know L3v5y, he is a well known dev/cook/moderator on XDA-Dev's and a Editor for WMPoweruser
Here it is quote for quote
I’m going to start this off with the point that as WP7 is built of CE7, which is an upgrade to CE6 (WM6.5 is built of CE5.2) of course the OS supports multitasking! There aren’t major smartphones that don’t support it at an OS level, because that would cause things like not being able to receive a phone call when not in the phone application.
From what delving I’ve done in the SDK (and what I’ve been told by a few) Microsoft will allow third party developers access to multitasking, but only if the developer can give a good reason. This may seem like Microsoft trying to control your life, but it’s really Microsoft wanting the experience to be good!
What point is there to having a game rendering in the background, when if you hibernate it and resume you’re game will still be in the same state? All that will do is cause the OS to slow down with no benefit. As a different example, a web browser would be useful to have downloading content in the background as it would let you do other things when loading web pages, but there’s not point in it constantly refreshing what it’s drawing to the screen as you will not see it.
The packages that applications are stored in (think cab file, but the code is executed from within it’s package, rather than copying the contents of the package on to the device and then running it there) contain a manifest stating what permissions the package has, like multitasking, web access etc, so it’s harder for idiots to install malware, but there should be the option to turn that off, much like you can turn off the unsigned cab warning in WM6.5. This is, I believe, the “developer” mode.
I hope that little rant clears up some of the multitasking, but if you have any questions, do let us know below!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the link: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14400

Hmmm,
That makes sense. Till MS messes up their multitasking approval process.
For apps like Pandora, there definitely is a need for multitasking, and I agree with game apps suspended to conserve up on battery life and OS usability.
Normal joe isnt too good with the concept of killing apps!

[/URL]
krjcook said:
I just read a article about WP7S regarding multitasking. This was posted by L3v5y. For those who don't know L3v5y, he is a well known dev/cook/moderator on XDA-Dev's and a Editor for WMPoweruser
Here it is quote for quote
Here's the link: http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14400
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also in video form HERE Fast foward to about 6:25 to here the MS thoughts on Multitasking
~style1~

Let's hope Microsoft doesn't get too overkill with application approval process.
Apparently, college (DreamSpark) students will have the developer fees already paid for them, but I'm not sure about each individual application.
And yes, the system does support multitasking, so I guess it is just disabled if not needed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQwzgNVVlc

I don't see how that's going to stop users from running several multitasking programs Is MS just trying to reduce the likelihood of that happening ?

I wonder if they'd let me make an app that could always run in the background that I could use for transferring text data from one application to another. I'm having trouble thinking of a name for it though...
Joking aside, this is good news, I can live with having a rationale for multitasking.

style1 said:
[/URL]
Also in video form HERE Fast foward to about 6:25 to here the MS thoughts on Multitasking
~style1~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already watched that, Engadget is in my RSS feeds. Apparently the platform supports multitasking, but not in the traditional sense. He's basically saying that it's not a Desktop enviroment, the multitasking you need on a mobile platform isn't as deep.
It will load web pages in the background while in another app.
Media application will continue to play in the background
No need to keep resource hogging apps running, will pause when not using. (Games, etc.)
Video won't play in the background, but what's the point of doing that anyway?
Dev's that want their app to run in the background must be have their app approved by MS.

Nice write up by l3v5y,
The only apps that really need to run in the background are music apps, web browsers maybe

gom99 said:
I wonder if they'd let me make an app that could always run in the background that I could use for transferring text data from one application to another. I'm having trouble thinking of a name for it though...
Joking aside, this is good news, I can live with having a rationale for multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MS is heavily backing on Push Notifications for those kind of apps. There paused, but will continue to notify you, not to sure how that works.

krjcook said:
MS is heavily backing on Push Notifications for those kind of apps. There paused, but will continue to notify you, not to sure how that works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just joking, the name for the app would be clipboard .

WhyBe said:
I don't see how that's going to stop users from running several multitasking programs Is MS just trying to reduce the likelihood of that happening ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm guessing that if MS only limits what app can and can't multitask then it will stop that situation. It looks like only important things like Web browsing, GPS, Calls and other the limited apps they allow will multitask. They seem to want to pause things like gaming, e-reading, and other apps that serve no purpose when not using.

According to the video in this article, WM7 will also allow IE to load pages even if navigate away to the main menu, which is some form multi-tasking.

DMAND said:
Nice write up by l3v5y,
The only apps that really need to run in the background are music apps, web browsers maybe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GPS, IM, exercise apps, etc. There are many examples where true multitasking is necessary.
Having said that, I'd be quite happy for Microsoft to manage which apps can multitask through the Marketplace approval process as long as that process is more transparent than Apple's.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/17/windows-phone-7-series-multitasking-the-real-deal/
"semi-multitasking" and no notification on killing an app if resources are needed.

WP7 and multitask

Until now we know that wp7 will not have multitasking
how can be a bussiness phone without multitask?
we know all the problems with iOS on iphone
if someone call you when writting mail you loosing your mail.. bla bla
maybe before 2-3 and more years back with lower cpu and ram the multitask had bad things
now with minimum device as HD2 1GHz and more than 512mb ram you can use many apps without any problem... what is your oppinion???
maybe will waitting for android 3 before jump to wp7

The minimum ram is 256mb.
1st party apps (ie email) can multitask. I believe even 3rd party apps will remain running during a phone call.
At this point in time, WP7 is not being positioned to target business users.

b16b said:
Until now we know that wp7 will not have multitasking
how can be a bussiness phone without multitask?
we know all the problems with iOS on iphone
if someone call you when writting mail you loosing your mail.. bla bla
maybe before 2-3 and more years back with lower cpu and ram the multitask had bad things
now with minimum device as HD2 1GHz and more than 512mb ram you can use many apps without any problem... what is your oppinion???
maybe will waitting for android 3 before jump to wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if someone call you when writting mail you loosing your mail
This is not true ,wp7 will save your email status in memory when someone call you.

b16b said:
Until now we know that wp7 will not have multitasking
how can be a bussiness phone without multitask?
we know all the problems with iOS on iphone
if someone call you when writting mail you loosing your mail.. bla bla
maybe before 2-3 and more years back with lower cpu and ram the multitask had bad things
now with minimum device as HD2 1GHz and more than 512mb ram you can use many apps without any problem... what is your oppinion???
maybe will waitting for android 3 before jump to wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually any app when closed saves its current state 1st or 3rd party apps. so you will not loose you email.

so can you listen to music while writing a text?

You can listen to zune while doing anything on the phone but you won't be able to listen to something like pandora and write a text.

theomni said:
so can you listen to music while writing a text?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st part apps multitask, so you'll be able to listen to zune and write a text.
What I'm curious about is what they mean by 1st part apps multitask, are there any rules here? Do some 1st party apps tombstone even if you don't want them to?
For Example.
If I:
1) listen to zune
2) open ie
3) open upto 6 tabs
4) open 3rd party app
What will the device do?
Will Zune keep playing, Will IE continue to load the 6 tabs while I'm playing with the 3rd party app Or will IE tombstone itself and/or stop loading the tabs when it loses focus.

gom99 said:
1st part apps multitask, so you'll be able to listen to zune and write a text.
What I'm curious about is what they mean by 1st part apps multitask, are there any rules here? Do some 1st party apps tombstone even if you don't want them to?
For Example.
If I:
1) listen to zune
2) open ie
3) open upto 6 tabs
4) open 3rd party app
What will the device do?
Will Zune keep playing, Will IE continue to load the 6 tabs while I'm playing with the 3rd party app Or will IE tombstone itself and/or stop loading the tabs when it loses focus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all 1st party apps will continue to do what they are doing including ie will continue to load the 6 pages however when you go back to ie or zune the 3rd party app will go to sleep / or be closed to its current state

RustyGrom said:
The minimum ram is 256mb.
1st party apps (ie email) can multitask. I believe even 3rd party apps will remain running during a phone call.
At this point in time, WP7 is not being positioned to target business users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IE does multitask, most don't do much (though the synchronisation services multitask).

rruffman said:
all 1st party apps will continue to do what they are doing including ie will continue to load the 6 pages however when you go back to ie or zune the 3rd party app will go to sleep / or be closed to its current state
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that 100% confirmed i.e. have you had hands on experience with an actual device. Or is it just what you assume will happen?

gom99 said:
Is that 100% confirmed i.e. have you had hands on experience with an actual device. Or is it just what you assume will happen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the emu which runs the same os as the test phones...

rruffman said:
I have the emu which runs the same os as the test phones...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so do I, but I can't really play anything on Zune to really test it. IE does load its tabs with a 3rd party program open in the emulator atm though.

gom99 said:
so do I, but I can't really play anything on Zune to really test it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i was speaking of the ie zune is been stated several times and i believe there are videos on youtube that show this...
if you want to get final answer you can post a question here http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/windowsphone7series/threads

This sounds better than I thought! This fuction with the 1st party apps multi-tasking is more than enough for me. It allmost never happens that I use 2 3th party apps (and if I do pausing or freezing that app would be more than enough)
I think true multi-tasking uses more energy than it delivers pleasure for me!
(and really, the multi tasking on the iphone is so crappy! They say it's true but like other things they deliver a illusion and because it has an apple logo on it, everbody excepts it.....)

The biggest problem would be using apps like Pandora. I stream that all day at work while I do things like text and email. Maybe Pandora can be integrated into the zune player so that it will not terminate while doing other things. I think we will have to see how the Pandora developers handle it. This is the only app that I can think of where I would need true multi-tasking.

n8huntsman said:
The biggest problem would be using apps like Pandora. I stream that all day at work while I do things like text and email. Maybe Pandora can be integrated into the zune player so that it will not terminate while doing other things. I think we will have to see how the Pandora developers handle it. This is the only app that I can think of where I would need true multi-tasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will not work at launch but resources for this to work in the near future will be available within the first year.. most likly by summer of 2011..

I'm waking this thread to life again after getting surprised by the latest development kit. Yesterday I uninstalled the old Dev kit and downloaded a fresh one from MS.
Aside from the Panorama and Pivot controls, I noted that my application didn't turn of when I went back to the home screen, and if I press the back button in the home screen I can go back to the place I was. The same thing applies even if I take some tours in Internet Explorer or the settings.
So where does this leave the multitasking question? It's interesting that is seems to support it, but really, the task-switch method isn't the smoothest I've seen.

would it be possible for someone to make a task manager app?

No, not without extended permissions.
But i assume that all apps are suspended while in the background and therefore use zero CPU power. They will probably be killed instantly if the device runs out of memory.

Sir. Haxalot said:
I'm waking this thread to life again after getting surprised by the latest development kit. Yesterday I uninstalled the old Dev kit and downloaded a fresh one from MS.
Aside from the Panorama and Pivot controls, I noted that my application didn't turn of when I went back to the home screen, and if I press the back button in the home screen I can go back to the place I was. The same thing applies even if I take some tours in Internet Explorer or the settings.
So where does this leave the multitasking question? It's interesting that is seems to support it, but really, the task-switch method isn't the smoothest I've seen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your apps are not killed only suspended this is what i have been telling people all along it is mostly the same as what most call "multi task" as you can never have two apps in the foreground anyway and if you can return to the previous state of an app this is pretty much the behavor of what your apps do on any os ie ios, android wm6.5 the only thing is 3party apps that play music or gps will not be able to work in the background but for music this is what zune is for and is well put together so not sure if there will be a need for pandora and as far as gps not sure if you will need this on to be actually running in the background pausing it will be more than fine for now. I don't think there will be any gps apps other than bing available at launch for wp7 and i am sure none of the current ones that work on wm6.5 will work. so this one may take care of its self when gps app become available..

Windows Phone 7 and multitasking

This is a clarification thread, and I will not, unlike my other attempt, be fooled into a pissing contest. There just seems to be a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to "multitasking" on Windows Phone 7, and I will try to clarify a little bit.
Problem: You're in a program, start another one, and then start the original again - and your data is gone, or if it's a game you have to start from the beginning.
Answer: This has nothing to do with multitasking, but something called tombstoning. The developers has to take into account what to do when a program is exited by starting another program, and most seem to just ignore it. That is when you lose your data or have to start the game from scratch
Problem: "Windows Phone doesn't multitask", "When will we get multitasking" etc
Answer: Windows Phone can multitask just fine. So can the programs running on Windows Phone. What most people refer to when asking these questions is really either the question above, or if developers will be allowed to run programs in the background. Multitasking is being able to more than one thing at the time, and the most simple test to see if your phone supports it or not is to see if you can receive phone calls or listen to music while you're checking mail. So - your phone can both multitask and run applications in the background (which is called scheduling, actually, as multitasking doesn't necessarily mean running a program that isn't in the foreground - uploading a picture to your sky drive while letting you browse the other pictures is typical multitasking).
Problem: "When will MS let us run programs in the background?"
Answer: There are both pros and cons to letting developers do this. A lot of developers aren't that good when it comes to using resources sensibly while in the background, and a lot of programs simply doesn't *need* to run in the background. If you're writing notes and want them back when you return, that's tombstoning. Playing a game? Well, you certainly don't want it to actually run in the background as you'll be dead when you return. Still tombstoning. One of the few applications is if you're listening to music (videos don't cound, because it doesn't make sense playing the video when you cannot watch it) or download larger amounts of data. The problem is that, if it's not done correctly, this can negatively impact performance (do you really want your game to stutter or have to wait two minutes for mail to open??), it can drain your battery, and it can even help distribute viruses. If MS wants to open this to developers, they need to have special testing procedures before they allow it. Also, misbehaving background apps will give most people a negative image of MS, which is apparent in all the threads dissing MS for not allowing "multitasking" because developers don't save data when exiting the application.
So, here's a short run-down of terms that are interesting in today's computer landscape:
* Multitasking: Being able to do more than one job at a time. Multitasking really just divides the processor time (available time to use the processor) and gives slices to different jobs.
* Multithreading: Being able to divide tasks into their own threads, thus allowing the use of more cores/processors. A multitasking, single threaded OS can only use one processor (simplification of the truth - if you know why it's a simplification, you don't need the full story. If you don't, it will only confuse you), while a multitasking, multithreaded OS can use more. Most programs, even for regular computers don't use multithreading, as it's a pain in the O to handle, but operating systems do. That's why, on a PC, Counter Strike will only use one of the cores on your brand new gaming rig with 8 cores, but all the cores will be active.
* Background scheduling: How the OS can let applications run in the background, usually by giving it less processor time (most often just free cycles) and thus letting it complete a time consuming process without making the system too slow to use. A foreground application will usually get more processor time than if it was running in the background.
I hope this clears it up, and helps people to understand what the different terms are and when to use it.
To sum up:
* Multitasking is available. There's no question about it. Windows Phone multitasks applications, and applications can multitask internally.
* Background scheduling is available, but is not an open API for developers. This has both positive and negative implications, depending on application
* A lot of developers are pretty bad when it comes to tombstoning.

Great post. There is nothing to be added. Sadly most ppl won't read the whole think or simply continue complaining.
I'm happy with the OS as it is, because I don't want all those crappy apps to suck my battery and fool with my CPU cycles.
In future real sceduling may be a capability of apps which need spezial certification. But I'm strictly against open APIs for that!

It has nothing to do with developers. If an OS is well written it will handle multitasking just fine, it's a nice excuse but a lame one. My old blackberry with a 400mhz processor and displays graphic icons can multi-task. Windows phone 7 with a 1ghz processor and is primarily text based won't allow it.
The keyword here is won't. We all know it's capable of doing it so why won't MS allow it? This is the reason why many major instant message apps are not available for this platform. What's the point of having an instant messager if it gets tombstoned when you switch screens? Big usability hole here.

the_Crispy said:
Great post. There is nothing to be added. Sadly most ppl won't read the whole think or simply continue complaining.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
See the post below yours for confirmation that people won't read, but will gladly complain

I see what you mean and for the most part you got all the definitions correct, but you also have to see how WP7 handles apps and the pros and cons on the end-user.
WP7 actually just saves the state of the app when navigated away from, and does not actually enable you to RUN two apps at once so developers have to be really tricky with how they incorporate this into the OS. The pros are saving battery and not waste resources, the cons are that you cannot actually utilize the best parts of multi-tasking.
Do you want you game "running" in the background so you die? No, but the developer should know that and code the app appropriately. Do you want to be able to stream music in the background while checking emails or texting or tweeting? Of course. Not possible under the current version of WP7. How about playing a game/email/text while driving and having turn-by-turn navigation on? Nope. Developers might be lazy at times, but they're not usually idiots.
There's no question that the OS has the native ability to do so, no one ever argued that point. The beef is that MS has locked their OS down so they only allow Zune to do it. Well some of us don't like Zune or want to multi-task other apps too.
But MS wants to play it safe and see how multi-tasking is working out for Google and Apple before they actually allow it for any 3rd party apps, meanwhile the end-user suffers and the salesguy at the t-mobile store doesn't even show you an HD7 because you "can only do one thing at a time." MS needs to wake the hell up and allow 3rd party TRUE multi-tasking for 3rd party apps. It actually made some sense to not allow it for the initial release, it could have been a nightmare with an early OS and not that many apps anyways, developers had to get fancy and had to stay smart and honest, or their app would be killed with the quickness.
But it is time to free the OS to do some core things that it is really lacking:
1) True Multitasking
2) Copy and Paste
3) HTML5 and Flash support in IE
4) Third party web browsers
5) full direct camera access to apps
6) separate audio levels for media, ringtones, alarm (android really nailed this one)
of course other bugs and stuff, but these are the main issues for me. I don't blame MS for how they handled tombstoning and multi-tasking initially, but it's time (with efficiency) to catch up with the rest of the herd.

tiwas said:
and I will not, unlike my other attempt, be fooled into a pissing contest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pillsburydoughman said:
It has nothing to do with developers. If an OS is well written it will handle multitasking just fine, it's a nice excuse but a lame one. My old blackberry with a 400mhz processor and displays graphic icons can multi-task. Windows phone 7 with a 1ghz processor and is primarily text based won't allow it.
The keyword here is won't. We all know it's capable of doing it so why won't MS allow it? This is the reason why many major instant message apps are not available for this platform. What's the point of having an instant messager if it gets tombstoned when you switch screens? Big usability hole here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tiwas said:
Thanks
See the post below yours for confirmation that people won't read, but will gladly complain
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to get into any ranting or raving or anything on this one, but please don't bash everyone who does not agree with you in this thread or claim they don't read.
The guy had a legitimate post about tombstoning an instant messenger and I have pointed out other times where MS drops the ball on this mulit-tasking issue.
Your OP is a good post and helps clear up some things, but you have to understand that there are real concerns with the OS not allowing 3rd party multi-tasking and just flaming anyone who does not think that this is the best way for the OS to operate.

It wasn't bashing. I was simply pointing out that he hadn't read the whole thing, as he, like you, didn't really understand the concept of multitasking.
Anyway, I'm not going to start arguing with you again.

pillsburydoughman said:
It has nothing to do with developers. If an OS is well written it will handle multitasking just fine, it's a nice excuse but a lame one. My old blackberry with a 400mhz processor and displays graphic icons can multi-task. Windows phone 7 with a 1ghz processor and is primarily text based won't allow it.
The keyword here is won't. We all know it's capable of doing it so why won't MS allow it? This is the reason why many major instant message apps are not available for this platform. What's the point of having an instant messager if it gets tombstoned when you switch screens? Big usability hole here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 definitely has the capbility of multi tasking, or you won't be playing music while using IE. MS limited the multi tasking for 3rd party apps.
Your old phone or android phone can do multitanking without any system limit. As I know it's free for Android application to create background services. However it causes significant lag and battery drain. My captivate lose 4% power per hour on standby and I cannot even locate which app is causing such battery drain.
MS learned from apple that it's more important to keep the device running smooth than to let apps mess the phone up.

Who cares what you call it. People want to have a messenger or non zune music player in the background while they do other things and be able to QUICKLY respond to it. BASICALLY most people want what apple calls multitasking/fast app switching. Only certain things allowed and a proper save state when when leaving the app. It works great on the iPhone and i dont care what people say its simple and effective.

can WP7 multitask?

tiwas said:
It wasn't bashing. I was simply pointing out that he hadn't read the whole thing, as he, like you, didn't really understand the concept of multitasking.
Anyway, I'm not going to start arguing with you again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well I think we both understand the concept of multi-tasking, just disagree with you on the wiseness of not allowing third party apps to be able to do so, someone disagreeing with you isn't the same thing as not understanding something; multi-tasking is actually a pretty easy concept to understand.
I don't want to argue with you again either, I just also don't want readers of this thread to be misinformed and to get all viewpoints regarding WP7's lack of multi-tasking support and then they can decide if they agree or not, but it doesn't mean that the subject is not understood.
I have no desire to start any beef on this thread, just keep in mind that when you start a thread you open a discussion open to disagreements, these don't mean that people don't read or don't understand necessarily. Don't be afraid to be wrong, it happens to everyone. We're all here to get the most out of our devices anyways.

So, you are shazaming a song on the radio, and get a phone call or a txt - will wp7 tombstone the live radio for you too?

Anthonok said:
Who cares what you call it. People want to have a messenger or non zune music player in the background while they do other things and be able to QUICKLY respond to it. BASICALLY most people want what apple calls multitasking/fast app switching. Only certain things allowed and a proper save state when when leaving the app. It works great on the iPhone and i dont care what people say its simple and effective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple add this feature not until their 4th generation system
Let's see what the mango update will give us.

amtrakcn said:
Apple add this feature not until their 4th generation system
Let's see what the mango update will give us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what so they will add this in the 9 generation?(if you count 6.1 and 6.5)
Wow

vetvito said:
what so they will add this in the 9 generation?(if you count 6.1 and 6.5)
Wow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's named WP7 but it's ACTUALLY WP1.
WM is designed to be a lite version of desktop windows with phone features
That's why it was powerful while hurting user experience

vetvito said:
can WP7 multitask?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should read my full post. It's explained
I am absolutely sure big companies will be allowed to run in the background, and it's probably just a question about time before we get MSN Messenger running properly in the background.
There are other uses, like streaming music, but as for the suggestions of running GPS software with turn by turn instructions (you shouldn't play games or do anything with your phone while driving!) and having a game active in the background without letting your character die (cool! Let's spin our wheels! We're not going anywhere, but we sure are spending gas! ) are plain silly...
Ok, on my list of programs that will benefit from actually running in the background, I can only think of two now, but please help me put more on the list:
* Music streaming
* Messaging

vetvito said:
can WP7 multitask?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nothing other than Zune right now
tiwas said:
but as for the suggestions of running GPS software with turn by turn instructions (you shouldn't play games or do anything with your phone while driving!) and having a game active in the background without letting your character die (cool! Let's spin our wheels! We're not going anywhere, but we sure are spending gas! ) are plain silly...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well GPS would nice since sometimes you're the passenger and you still want turn by turn while gaming or emailing, so it needs to be supported in the mango update too.

Hi fellow XDA lovers
I just want to remind you all that we don't want a flame war here so keep it on topic please.

amtrakcn said:
Apple add this feature not until their 4th generation system
Let's see what the mango update will give us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it took them an extremely long time because apple is stubborn (or should i say Steve Jobs) and it is disappointing that Microsoft chose to pull an apple with WP7. But at least apple updated the iPhone....

lqaddict said:
So, you are shazaming a song on the radio, and get a phone call or a txt - will wp7 tombstone the live radio for you too?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I should probably be able to run in the background if you get a call. I can play games while on the phone, but it leaves a nasty orange block on the top of the screen to notify you that your on the phone. As far txt messaging go, yea that's a bummer. I just click the message when it comes up, respond, then click back to go to the game I was playing. Just hope that game saved your previous state.