Develop Bugs

It's official: Silverlight, XNA, 'clean break'

"For us, the cost of going from good to great is a clean break from the past. To enable the fantastic user experiences you’ve seen in the Windows Phone 7 Series demos so far we’ve had to break from the past. To deliver what developers expect in the developer platform we’ve had to change how phone apps were written. One result of this is previous Windows mobile applications will not run on Windows Phone 7 Series."
http://blogs.msdn.com/ckindel/archi...e-new-windows-phone-developer-experience.aspx
He also specifically mentions developers in it for learning and fun. I have to think they'll embrace free apps and not charge a dev $99 to submit an app if it's going to be free.
Another softie's blog post on the topic... http://www.artificialignorance.net/...ne-7-series-developers-developers-developers/

Yupe, and all WM5.x, WM6.x applications will NOT run on WP7:
To enable the fantastic user experiences you’ve seen in the Windows Phone 7 Series demos so far we’ve had to break from the past. To deliver what developers expect in the developer platform we’ve had to change how phone apps were written. One result of this is previous Windows mobile applications will not run on Windows Phone 7 Series.
Well, this is just a NEW mobile OS, it is not an upgrade / update of current WM, this kinda expected.

From the article:
ckindle article said:
We took the feedback we gathered from developers, looked at the full potential of Windows Phone 7 Series and landed on 3 basic goals for the platform we’re delivering;
1. Enable end users to be able to personalize their phone experience through a large library of innovative, compelling, games and applications.
2. Enable developers to profit.
3. Advance the “3 screen plus cloud” vision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely WP7 is customizable, this is good, but how far the customization will be? For sure, no more Sense UI, TouchFlo kind of customization, nor SpB Mobile Shell.
I hope a "launcher" like still possible? Microsoft mentioned that we can put app as a tile in the start screen. I am wondering if that app would be some kind of app launcher ... icons grid
ckindle article said:
When we talk with developers we hear them talk about three different “currencies”: making money, learning, and recognition. Some developers are in it for the money. They are either literally being paid to write code or they are writing code with the hope it will generate coin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This could mean professional mobile developer who earn and make money for living developing mobile applications.
Give them free tools! free submission charge! That would certainly be more attractive.
ckindle article said:
Other developers tell us they are interested in advancing their knowledge – love of the game. They love learning about computers, programming, games, social connections, etc… So they build software to learn. They profit by being smarter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this mean "hobbyist" aka XDA dev?
ckindle article said:
Other developers are clearly motivated by pride. Maybe there’s a bit of money and learning involved, but to these developers being noticed or recognized as doing wickedly epic sh*t is top of the list for how they measure profit.
We think all three “currencies” are valid and important and we are explicitly trying to build the platform and developer experience to support “profit” in each.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or this?

From what I'm reading MS is actually listening to all of us and I think that is a damn good thing.

gogol said:
Definitely WP7 is customizable, this is good, but how far the customization will be? For sure, no more Sense UI, TouchFlo kind of customization, nor SpB Mobile Shell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know it OEMs are not allowed to add their own UI extension, but I didn't hear it that you can't just add a 3rd party app like Morbid Shell. It's only an app, and you can install apps, can't you!?

RAMMANN said:
As far as I know it OEMs are not allowed to add their own UI extension, but I didn't hear it that you can't just add a 3rd party app like Morbid Shell. It's only an app, and you can install apps, can't you!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's much more than an app.
@gogol Tiles can also be shortcuts. But I doubt that one tile can link to multiple apps.

seed_al said:
It's much more than an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what Morbid Shell is. But by definition it's an app. You download it from Marketplace or somewhere and install the cab. Sense is not a cab but part of the ROM and you can say part of the OS. That's the difference as I see it.

Catalyst
WP7 is the catalyst that is getting me back into school to learn code. I have a degree in electrical engineering, but with the possibilities unfolding in the mobile OS world today, I want to be apart of that. The Star Trek dream has begun.

Don't expect any Haret.exe this time around.
This has turned into the same crap Apple did, a retarded OS for retards that have no clue in anything, but like the "oh so cool" flashy menus.

I think in regards to haret we are forgetting one very important thing as we compare this to iphone
jailbreak does broaden the possibilities on the iphone so I'm not so sure this is the total end of haret

what if the tiles based home screen is just a today plugin like Sense is, wouldn't we be able to disable it? if so, maybe the devs here @ xda can come with a kickass UI xperience. i've got some great and unique ideas... too bad i'm not a codewarrior.

hyellow said:
what if the tiles based home screen is just a today plugin like Sense is, wouldn't we be able to disable it? if so, maybe the devs here @ xda can come with a kickass UI xperience. i've got some great and unique ideas... too bad i'm not a codewarrior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure that the start screen on WP7 is definitely not a plug-in of any kind. It's hardcoded to the system and as far as we have been told no one is allowed to write different UI's on top of it. Not to say that it won't be possible. It just won't be carriers and OEM's doing it.

So basically... this means we probably won't be seeing apps like Opera Mobile (or any custom web browsing rendering engine), and things like that, that are really required to be written in native code for speed.

~Johnny said:
So basically... this means we probably won't be seeing apps like Opera Mobile (or any custom web browsing rendering engine), and things like that, that are really required to be written in native code for speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't believe so. These are still apps. MS is creating a single baseline that all developers will be able to use so the platform is uniform and easier to develop for. This will create a stable Windows Mobile experience and hopefully make it more enjoyable for noobs and vets alike without providers and manufacturers messing it up. Opera and Opera Mini are simply applications so they should be able to work once developed for the new UI and OS.

Opera and Opera Mini are simply applications so they should be able to work once developed for the new UI and OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that simple.

Of course
seed_al said:
It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

seed_al said:
It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain.

Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Opera Mini, on the other hand, is of course perfectly possible, it's not a browser really.

And I have no problem at all with Opera Mini, except Flash ... but for that, I use SkyFire or YouTube app.
Opera Mini would be my top app to port to WP7 ... because I doubt the new IE is good to use.
vangrieg said:
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Opera Mini, on the other hand, is of course perfectly possible, it's not a browser really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

vangrieg said:
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, and Opera have their own engine. They still have not even released their Android port. Opera Mobile on WP7 is not going to happen anytime soon.
Same for lots of other things that heavily rely on native code or are hard to port over.
Sorry, guys. It's just not that simple.

no extra browsers?

looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599

No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...

A twitter client is already on board isn't it?
Probably they'll also add a fart app to the final retail version. so the only thing you could do is add customized fart sounds!
I really wish it was different but to be honest I don't see any potential for interesting apps on WP7.

seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.

gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but firefox did take awhile to produce nothing on Wm6 with access to native code so maybe MS doesnt trust them with native code cuz those fennec browser cause the phone to crash sometimes..im holding out hope that they give opera permission

gom99 said:
seems counter-productive to not release their native client to bigger development studios as yet. They certainly want a library of applications for launch, it's a bit strange they the silverlight/xna libraries 1st, when those would typically be shorter to right than something like a Firefox, Opera, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff. That's why they focus on .NET. They will eventually have quite a big app library by the end of the year, but most of it will be "fart apps".
Will there ever be an NDK? Who knows...

C:Sharp! said:
No native code = no alternative browers. At least not anytime soon.
That was clear all along.
You're not going to see any "big" applications on WP7S. Fart apps and twitter clients are easy to do, however...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL..I hate those fart apps...or fart jokes for that matter.
The latest IE that I have on the Prime-II ROM is very good at rendering and formatting the columns for readibility, esp when used in mobile mode. Panning large pages is also very smooth and does not show any blank/white "still loading" when moving rapidly left or right or top or down. I actually stopped using opera because it suck memory and still shows white spaces when panning pages.

I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)

C:Sharp! said:
.NET apps are much quicker to develop than native stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
See: PowerShell, which is unashamedly built directly on top of .NET, and yet is a viable replacement to the command prompt due to the fact it can do pretty much anything.

Spike15 said:
But .NET in Windows -- at least from my understanding -- has access to native/lower-level APIs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's correct. You can do that via P/Invoke.
You could also do that on Windows Mobile.
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.

C:Sharp! said:
But not on Windows Phone 7, this feature is officially gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had guessed.
I was just pointing out that .NET on Windows Mobile and Windows is more powerful than it's going to be on Windows Phone.

C:Sharp! said:
I'm using the word "fart apps" as an explanation for a certain kind of apps. I don't mean that they're all useless, but they're the kind of apps that are easy to develop in .NET and will likely form the majority of apps that we'll see in the WP7S marketplace by the end of the year.
(To be honest, I'm also going to make some . Useful ones, however.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
make some musical ones, to live up to your name!

Hehe
But actually, the name is inspired by the programming language.

No more. Now you will be a music apps developer for WP7!

Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.

C:Sharp! said:
Maybe. But they have to be programmed in C# nevertheless
C# is the language that's used for .NET, thus all development for WP7 will be done in C#, in case you didn't know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. I did not know. Thanks for the info. Now I know just a bit more about the WP7 platform

havox22 said:
looks like i was wrong & MS is being a A$$
there arent letting browser devs use native code at the moment...this is wack, IE better be the bomb or else this is gonna suck
From Mozilla
"While we think Windows Phone 7 looks interesting and has the potential to do well in the market, Microsoft has unfortunately decided to close off development to native applications. Because of this, we won’t be able to provide Firefox for Windows Phone 7 at this time. Given that Microsoft is staking their future in mobile on Windows Mobile 7 (not 6.5) and because we don’t know if or when Microsoft will release a native development kit, we are putting our Windows Mobile development on hold"
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14599
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sure .net framework in wp7s can access all hardware,so why Mozilla need native api access? just performance issues...but Mozilla do a sucked Firefox on WM6.X
Finally, I think .net framework good enough to develop great browser and developer can get benefit by GUI Acceleration
Managed is slow? May be but not critical
http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk/dotnet/man_unman.htm

It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.

vangrieg said:
It's not just about performance. A browser is a huge complex app with millions of lines of code. You can't just sit down and rewrite it in a different language when your engine is done in C++ for all platforms. That's a massive endeavor that will cost millions of dollars. In addition to that, there's no access to APIs necessary to do it. You can't open a socket and work with it directly in WP7's Silverlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So,this is not .net or Wp7 problem
All about the money

Everything in business is about money, so what? Restricting development to Silverlight makes developing alternative browsers for WP7 impossible because of a huge investment barrier.

[DISCONTINUED] Skyfire Bails On WinMo

Hi Guys,
If any of you have been using Skyfire your probably getting an error saying that you are unable to get service. Well it seems they are no longer supporting WinMo now they they have moved to Droid an iPhone. The Skyfire Community is very angry.
See this: http://support.skyfire.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5992
Join the petition to remove the product from marketplace: http://social.answers.microsoft.com...e/thread/9a71aa48-d6d3-49ca-ac6d-c47730289f1d
THIS INCLUDES SYMBION DEVICES.
This is an outrage as I have been helping develop the program since Beta and now I feel betrayed. Very ANGERY!

Well, thank god i swited to Opera Mini.

Skyfire lost my respect just to have iPhone users use it. Now it is time for me to go back to Opera mobile and I would not be buying there app on my iPhones either.

That's only natural don't you think? Not saying it's good though but I understand why it happened (I'm a consistent Apple hater... I have tested but I don't use/own/buy any of Apple's hardware/software/services... I find everything Apple made to be overpriced/overrated/hyped) but:
1- WinMo is a discontinued platform with a very small market share.
2- WinP 7 would require a complete rewrite (has a tiny market share and so far analysts don't foresee a big success...)
3- Skyfire would have to be completely rewritten to work in the new platform (due to the moronic "no native code approach")
4- Skyfire was free...
Plus:
1- A lot of ppl out there with iPhones (and the market share seems ever increasing).
2- Most apps so far seem to work in all versions and no major break seems to be in sight
3- Apple's anti-Flash policy (anti-Adobe tantrum) makes for the perfect market niche for Skyfire.
4- The app is paid.
5- The app was an overnight success.
6- Most likely the success of the app overloaded the enterprise servers so one of the immediate solutions was to cut off the unpopular platforms (the free users)...
They simply expanded to the popular platforms and monetized the app bigtime. Sorry but that's how capitalism works... Or did anyone think they did this out of the goodness of their hearts?
PS: I won't move to uZard. I refuse to use a product from a company that blatantly disrespects the law and doesn't show any respect to the open-source community... Why's that? Because "uZard Media Player" (even the naming shows their lack of respect) is an illegally modified version of TCPMP (illegal because no sources were released even after I requested them by email and because the GPL license agreement isn't distributed with the app).
I've contacted Core on this matter and seriously hope something happens... In the meantime the only supportive measure one can take is to boycott uZard.

Microsoft release the restrictions!

I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!

MS listens to their customers DDDD

What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.

PG2G said:
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Port restrictions? With only port 80 available to developers it limits the ability for anything that isn't HTTP or uses a proxy server.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express

PG2G said:
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.

I don't feel the need for any of those.
Internet Explorer is superb and the office applications are better than any i've used on other platforms.

doministry said:
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never.
------

doministry said:
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read that but don't get it. There are a few alternate browsers available. I have 3 on my DVP

doministry said:
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point of putting out a quality product from the get-go was to eliminate the need for all of this excess garbage. I replaced that crap on Android because the default stuff was garbage. This just sounds like someone who NEEDS to modify their device and prefers that over a perfectly functional experience. This may be the wrong OS.
Also third party browsers can very well created but no one has put forth the time to build a new rendering engine solely for WP7.

ratchetjaw said:
I read that but don't get it. There are a few alternate browsers available. I have 3 on my DVP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correction, you have 3 different front-ends on your DVP - they all use the same IE engine behind the scenes to render pages. I'm guessing what the OP wants is a webkit powered browser.
I don't see the problem though - IE does an okay job at rendering basic HTML and is faster than both iOS and Android when it really counts. While both iOS and Android may display the page faster, if the information you're after involves scrolling or resizing you're **** out of luck as they [iOS/Android] seem to do some kind of jit rendering, whereas IE renders the whole page at once.
Not to mention, IE9 is sick on WP7. Kills all competition.

The OP is right.
Even if "IE9 is the best" (and there is no such thing) people love options. I am having a hard time giving up Android fully because there is no real cross platform chat option in WP7. No whatsapp. No Skype. These programs have millions of users. The biggest joke to me is Microsoft does not have an MSN Messenger client on WP7. I used that all the time on my HTC Touch WinMo phone.
The NoDo update is so trivial in my mind. The biggest improvement WP7 can make is to open up the APIs and bring true multitasking.
Then I will be happy....er.

nicksti said:
The biggest improvement WP7 can make is to open up the APIs and bring true multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
more APIs... word around is MIX 2011 will introduce devs to more WP APIs (hopefully sockets is one of them)
and multi tasking is the mango update coming fall 2011 (septemberish?)

nicksti said:
The biggest joke to me is Microsoft does not have an MSN Messenger client on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do - the Messenger by Miyowa is the official app. I still prefer (and use) Li'Messenger though as that gives me Messenger and FB chat in one.

emigrating said:
Correction, you have 3 different front-ends on your DVP - they all use the same IE engine behind the scenes to render pages. I'm guessing what the OP wants is a webkit powered browser.
I don't see the problem though - IE does an okay job at rendering basic HTML and is faster than both iOS and Android when it really counts. While both iOS and Android may display the page faster, if the information you're after involves scrolling or resizing you're **** out of luck as they [iOS/Android] seem to do some kind of jit rendering, whereas IE renders the whole page at once.
Not to mention, IE9 is sick on WP7. Kills all competition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh okay my bad. I don't know all of that detailed stuff lol

Well WP7 has only one browser and few skins. Rendering is identical with all the good and bad consequences.
I am not asking you guys to need other options but it is sick that it's the only platform which still has no options. I like IE very much but I miss Opera Mini server rendering for fast browsing in worse coverage area. And I have few pages IE misses big time. No flash etc.
As for the Office, other platforms have DocsToGo which kills Office with one finger.
And now Softmaker will make Office for Android...
The Word implementation on WP7 is my huge disappointment. Almost featureless app.
It's the first time for 4 years I have to use PC to make basic editing like font style changing or inserting a tablet.
The same with email. The MS email client is so nice but at the same time is a pain. Not able to delete quoted message? Bummer. And very very often I don't see the pictures loaded or even worse, attachements don't show up so Ihave to open my email in the browser.

z33dev33l said:
This just sounds like someone who NEEDS to modify their device and prefers that over a perfectly functional experience. This may be the wrong OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. It sounds like a person who likes to have a choice, especially compared to other platforms. And have had it previously.
WP7 is very far from perfectly functional device. We don't live in a camp where is only one truth for all. Accept the diversity.

emigrating said:
They do - the Messenger by Miyowa is the official app. I still prefer (and use) Li'Messenger though as that gives me Messenger and FB chat in one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never heard of Li'Messenger, but I did a search and someone said they took it off of Marketplace a month ago. True?
And isn't Messenger by Miyowa buggy? I am looking at the youtube video of it now. If this is a good client then I will get a new WP7 phone asap!
Does Messenger by Miyowa support group chat, delivered, and read notification, etc like Whatsapp?

Blade0rz said:
Port restrictions? With only port 80 available to developers it limits the ability for anything that isn't HTTP or uses a proxy server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That isn't a restriction, its an API that hasn't been implemented yet. There is no policy that limits people to Http Request and there is no switch they can flick to quickly enable it, outside of giving people access to the native APIs.
doministry said:
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Says who? Opera could do it, they just don't want to because they would have to rewrite their codebase from scratch because they can't use any C++.

PG2G said:
Says who? Opera could do it, they just don't want to because they would have to rewrite their codebase from scratch because they can't use any C++.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
Read this:
http://wmpoweruser.com/surfy-alternate-ie-shell-for-wp7-having-a-hard-time-getting-to-market/
This was just about the new broswer UI..

nicksti said:
I never heard of Li'Messenger, but I did a search and someone said they took it off of Marketplace a month ago. True?
And isn't Messenger by Miyowa buggy? I am looking at the youtube video of it now. If this is a good client then I will get a new WP7 phone asap!
Does Messenger by Miyowa support group chat, delivered, and read notification, etc like Whatsapp?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, Li'Messenger was removed a day or two after release. No official confirmation as to why, but I'm guessing because it accessed the Live servers directly thru unsupported APIs. Rumors have it they are bringing out a new version adhering to the Live EULA though.
Messenger by Miyowa had an update just a couple days ago which made it a lot more stable. It's still a very basic app though and I definitely wouldn't suggest you run out and get a new WP7 device because of it.
TBH though, I don't think Messenger in a larger capacity will work properly on WP7 until we get a native client (apparently not going to happen) or the OS allows apps to multitask (H2 '11 - so Dec 31st ). Even with live tile or toast notifications it's too cumbersome to use for anything but quick messages due to load/login times etc.

is it a lie all about the HTML5 on wp7

hello guys, I'm a little dissapointed, I've just found this website to test the html5 speed of your browser and WP7 is one of the worst in html5, try it in your phones, I've tested it on my samsung focus mango RTM and it scores 141 out of 450 points
h t t p ://www.html5test.com/
ps: maybe I'm wrong but..... now I don't know

It happened to me too. Maybe it depends on the connection.

I think so too.. Look at d videos on uploading onto on fb.. Freaking fast.. I can gwf it up half its speed if im lucky..
Sent from my LG Optimus 7

ok try to go to touch.facebook.com from a wp7 , and from an iphone or android or bada phone.. html5 in wp7 mango is very bad..
try in other sites like: m.gizmodo.com ... m.engadget.com..

don't blame the browser. Blame the site. They're not recognizing it's mango and sending you to the correct site. Once mango is released many they will send to the html5 versions.

Thats because IE9 in general is not that good in HTML5. Even the desktop version just gets 141 points. That will however change in IE10.

Yes, but for IE10 will have to wait 1 year!! ....

Stock browser on my tab 211 and maxthron mobile same 211...

jaiem said:
hello guys, I'm a little dissapointed, I've just found this website to test the html5 speed of your browser and WP7 is one of the worst in html5, try it in your phones, I've tested it on my samsung focus mango RTM and it scores 141 out of 450 points
h t t p ://www.html5test.com/
ps: maybe I'm wrong but..... now I don't know
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are wrong. Its not a speed test.

Dude, this seems like a biased site to me. It's not possible that every single phone on every single connection, doing any number of background tasks like music, email, etc. scores a 141, It's like it recognizes it as IE and scores it as 141 no matter what. This is not a speed test.

thesecondsfade said:
Dude, this seems like a biased site to me. It's not possible that every single phone on every single connection, doing any number of background tasks like music, email, etc. scores a 141, It's like it recognizes it as IE and scores it as 141 no matter what. This is not a speed test.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
141 for both Mobile and Pc browser?
Just confirmed, pretty hard to believe though.
Creamy

Why do you guys judge the performance of a browser upon some random value spit out by a website rather than using the browser and seeing for yourself? I for one can claim that both IE9 for desktop (I still like Opera better though) as well as IE9 mobile are pretty fast.

It's not hard to believe. IE9 mobile uses the same rendering engine called Trident like the desktop version. Why should it be different? Even the Acid3 test scores 95/100 on both versions.

creamy said:
141 for both Mobile and Pc browser?
Just confirmed, pretty hard to believe though.
Creamy
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The test tests how well it complies to "standards", not how fast it is. Firefox renders the page instantly, while it takes Chrome 2-3 seconds and it still gets a higher score.
Something that is worth to remember when it comes when it comes to HTML5 and CSS3 is that it first of all isn't complete standards some of the points in that test might in fact only be suggested but not at all accepted to be a part of the HTML5 standard (yet).
There is also a lot of strong biasing towards the Webkit engine. It probably has something to do with Google pushing it and everyone knows that Google is the good guy, right? (rolleyes).. A very good example of this is http://i.reddit.com/. If you do some research on the CSS you will quickly note that it isn't written according to the W3 standard, but what I assume are something more like Googles standard.
Conslusion: Google is the new Microsoft when it comes to making up web standards.

www.html5test.com is not based on standards. MS has said that they will support HTML5 standards as they get finalized. Also, IE scores 95/100 on acid 3 because the other 5% is not yet standardized.
Consider a scenario where MS introduces support for a non-standard feature. Corporations and IT guys develop internal applications which use this feature. However, HTML5 standards group adopts a different version of the feature so MS has to change it. The IT guys mentioned above will have a nightmares.
Many internal apps developed and used within coporations depend on IE and Trident Engine.
Although Chrome scores high, in the past they have often abandoned fetures to adopt different standrds.
For long term benefits, we need proper HTML5 standard support and not get distracted by cool experimental features. IE9 is a very good browser. Don't let the numbers confuse you.

there are a lot of html5 websites that dont work on the mobile IE unfortunately, like he said touch.facebook.com does not work, also vimeo.com does not work as well as a few others. Its not as good as I expected it to be, and not that usefull as of now.
All we can hope for is that WP7 will be a recognised platform and companies will also test their mobile websites to work with WP7. If this happens it will be very usefull to have html5 support. Until that day Im happy the general rendering is improved and most sites render correctly now.

It seems as though touch.facebook.com is working just fine for me. It's not giving me the mobile version. The touch version automatically continues loading your news feed when you reach the bottom.
My IE9 is setup to show me the Desktop version of sites if that makes a difference to any of you.

morpheuszg said:
It's not hard to believe. IE9 mobile uses the same rendering engine called Trident like the desktop version. Why should it be different? Even the Acid3 test scores 95/100 on both versions.
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Because IE9 is hardware accelerated on HTML5... so unless the phone and pc have identical hardware, the score will be different.

Nor ACID tests, nor HTML5 tests are based ON SPEED but on FEATURES SUPPORT. Sir. Haxalot is right.
Desktop PC and IE9 on mango will score the same score, since they are THE SAME CORE.

Marvin_S said:
there are a lot of html5 websites that dont work on the mobile IE unfortunately, like he said touch.facebook.com does not work, also vimeo.com does not work as well as a few others. Its not as good as I expected it to be, and not that usefull as of now.
All we can hope for is that WP7 will be a recognised platform and companies will also test their mobile websites to work with WP7. If this happens it will be very usefull to have html5 support. Until that day Im happy the general rendering is improved and most sites render correctly now.
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As for vimeo, just use the button "View in couch-mode" on top right corner in each video. Then it works. A bit inconvinient but a good workaround.