Related
Microsoft has confirmed at the MIX developers conference that Windows Phone 7 Series will not have copy and paste functionality
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from: http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/mix10-microsoft-cuts-copy-paste-feature-from-windows-phone-7-series
feels like a retarded joke, after all the heat apple took for not having it, MS must b on crack not to include it ...
Simply drop WP7S ... Stick with WM6.5 or WM6.5.5. Or you can switch to Android with HTC Desire.. F*CK Microsoft with their "It's best for the end-user"
Android here I come
This is so very strange.
So maybe the UI will be a tad better than iPhone, but WHY copy the iPhone on all the BAD stuff?
I'm very dissapointed.
There is no more reason to stick with wimMo after winMo7 is released.
Marked will never become good for the 6.5 because the focus will be on winmo7.
So, Android, here I come.
I think microsoft have lost the plot.
I use copy and paste all the time, in the file explorer and with documents.
If it does not have copy/paste, then it's pretty useless. Will have to stick with 6.5, but if development of apps for 6.5 stops, then i guess android is the way to go.
I prefer an OS to be functional. There are many apps/skins to make it look good.
so dear Microsoft if i get e-mail from some one with text like :
"could you meet Mr. Matheabthukul from the airport"
and then someone else ask: "can you text me the name of the guy you meeting?"
which part of "data-detection service built into the text-handling API" will spell that name in to new text message ?
we could copy stuff on dumbphones years ago, please dont revolutionise things like wormy Apple did, (((WOW u can now copy and past 3 generations of OS it took them... ))) and don't reinvent the wheel...
What is Microsoft smoking in the developers room?
elementary stuff are missing...wtf.
Problem is: ALL comapnies develop what the MARKET demands (= the majority of the users).
The majority is not WE here but the hundred thousands of people that just wanna take their cell-phone outa the box and use it without crashes, listen to music, watch Youtube, take photos and vids and don´t wanna have to do anything with fiddling around in setup menus and accidentally activate or deactivate or delete features.
And since iPhone is the "standard" MS just copies it
WE here are a little minority and MS will never ever listen to OUR demands.
It´s sad, but reality always is ...................
seems like they have been smoking from an apple bong
Unless they also cut multitasking, this OS will not be good enough.
[email protected] said:
What is Microsoft smoking in the developers room?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i was sure, its illegal to be high at work place...
troed said:
And since iPhone is the "standard"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
even they added Copy&paste to the iPhone
i guess we will have to find the unspeakable: Jailbreaking WM7P and Cydia for WM7 etc...
welcome to hell... this is the beginning of the end for XDA as it is...
i guess after WM7 take off not many Classic WM6.X devices will b out and as they become outdated, what will happen to this place ?
since XDA don't permit Cracking of the soft...
(PS this is only my thoughts, it will probably just turn in to How to Make WM7 a smart-phone again )
I don't see this as a bad thing. It just confirms my belief that:
1) No WP7S upgrade for the HD2 is no big deal
2) My next phone will run Android.
By the way, did I really read that WP7S will not support external SD cards? If so, MS really are building their own mobile coffin.
Until reading this I was looking forward to wm7.
All the apple fans wont know what to do when they have the option of a apple iphone or a windows iphone.
Savage-wp said:
I think microsoft have lost the plot.
I use copy and paste all the time, in the file explorer and with documents.
If it does not have copy/paste, then it's pretty useless. Will have to stick with 6.5, but if development of apps for 6.5 stops, then i guess android is the way to go.
I prefer an OS to be functional. There are many apps/skins to make it look good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there is a bit of difference between OS copy/paste and text-selection copy/paste. Though from what I understand, the only way to get to an OS copy/paste function is through 'jailbreaking' since filesystem access will be minimized.
Simple: Bill Gates is overtly killing off the WinMo portion of his kingdom, and he's gonna wait for the Obama bailout.
So... Let's just make Android run fine in our HD2, shall we?
Moandal said:
I don't see this as a bad thing. It just confirms my belief that:
1) No WP7S upgrade for the HD2 is no big deal
2) My next phone will run Android.
By the way, did I really read that WP7S will not support external SD cards? If so, MS really are building their own mobile coffin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's right, another extra point to stick on 6.5 or android .
Store counter: Sir, which phone do you want to buy?
Mr. Dude: I want to buy an iPhone please ...
Store counter: Right, which iPhone? Apple iPhone or Windows iPhone 7 Series?
Mr. Dude: Hey, that's new, what's the difference?
Store counter: Apple iPhone has copy paste function, Windows iPhone does not. The rest are the same.
Mr. Dude: Hmm, give me Apple iPhone please ...
tonycosta said:
Until reading this I was looking forward to wm7.
All the apple fans wont know what to do when they have the option of a apple iphone or a windows iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vladimir2989 said:
so dear Microsoft if i get e-mail from some one with text like :
"could you meet Mr. Matheabthukul from the airport"
and then someone else ask: "can you text me the name of the guy you meeting?"
which part of "data-detection service built into the text-handling API" will spell that name in to new text message ?
we could copy stuff on dumbphones years ago, please dont revolutionise things like wormy Apple did, (((WOW u can now copy and past 3 generations of OS it took them... ))) and don't reinvent the wheel...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol thats prolly the funniest thing ive read on this forum
ok thats it...
thats the final straw.
i am a die hard windows mobile guy but this takes the piss.
first no removable storage... then no multi-tasking for third party apps... then only 3 front facing buttons... now this.
there is no way i could ever recommend WP7S to anyone when it hits the streets in its current form.
To me it looks like it will fail bigtime. MS are trying to grab a hold of the normal user base (ie/ everyone that either owns or wants an iPhone)..... unfortunately there is no way in hell that any of those people would ever want a WP7S handset over Apples offering. Why would they? Anyone got a reason? ANYONE?
You must obay Micro$oft.
WP7S is a drones machine. A non-thinking tweeters mp3 player. It is NOT an OS. It is a development environment on top of a locked down OS.
NO API access
NO MicroSD memory
NO 3rd party apps outside appstore (M$ commission made on each app)
I am pro-actively AGAINST WP7S from now on. I can .net c#... maybe I will learn a different language.
And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical. people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
For Example:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?
jacobgong said:
And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
jacobgong said:
people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
jacobgong said:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
jacobgong said:
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
jacobgong said:
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
jacobgong said:
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
jacobgong said:
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
both of yalls post were to long to read cuz its late, but im for wp7 also
wm7 is going to kill this community i think
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard of Max Manilla, Max Sense or TouchXprience?? if not I would be more than glad to direct you to their forums!!
I am looking forward to WP7
WP7 certainly looks like a lovely interface and i am quite excited about it. I have enjoyed my WM6.x phone over the last few years - but I will be happy to step into the more consumer focused model that Microsoft has put forward.
Fa7my said:
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard glad to direct you to their forums!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, I have.
they may look fancy but they obviously lack a lot of polishing.
Spike15 said:
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post kills, but much of it is true
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really, I never thought about governments and evil corporations or anything like that. It's your freedom if you think arguing about such things make you more free and intelligent.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I know what Multitasking means, I run a quad-core 8-thread Intel Xeon desktop. I never said it's entirely not used, it's just really not that useful because even the example you gave me is a very rare case, which shows how often you really use it, not very.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what made WM6.5 fail, thinking a phone OS is the same as a Desktop OS. it's not. the Phone is an appliance, not a general purpose electronic computer.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize that "except" will be impossible, but I don't need it to be possible because the WM7 UI is a lot better than anything we've ever had. if nobody was able to make anything close to it, I don't expect anything better to be made any time soon.
and you are free to show me which of you freedom tweakers have made anything better than the HTC Sence/iPhone OS/HTC Android triple screen UI.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do I really care? the fact is the iPhone Safari browser browses the web better than a freakin netbook, it's a lot more fluid with multi-touch zoom and all that. Unlike Opera 10 on WM lags all the time and shows blanks when you zoom and pan.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you didn't know, writing programs before the existence of operating systems was a pain in the ass, cause you can't use languages like C
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the FaceBook app is there, because it makes it easier to access Facebook. If I try to access it with the web browser not only is it slow, laggy, power intensive. it's not optimized for finger use.
It's people like you who made the WM6.5 stylus and big battery a necessity.
as for the file syncing thing, yea I hate to have a syncing software like iTunes or whatever, I will hope it still works like thumbdrive drag and drop.
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customization doesn't just have to do with looking good.
As you say...
There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customization allows the user to make this trade off, and choose for example a more functional user interface that impressionable consumers would find less attractive.
jacobgong you are obviously an iPhone fan, ie. you belong to the market share (iphone users) to which microsoft is focusing on with WP7.
Welcome to the microsoft world! So glad they managed to grab you! This means their strategy is actually working!
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.
This is actually a merge of worlds. MS is going to give us developers an opportunity to create apps for ex-iphone users like my friend jacobgong, if they manage to grab that share... And as I can see, they are already doing great!
This is good news.
jacobgong said:
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL
This said after "And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical."
LOL!!!
You made my day, man. As a nerd who lives for customization and for what we "can" do rather than what the unwashed masses "do" do (hurhur, doodoo), I died a little bit inside. XD Let my phone look like it's from the '70s! More nerd points! It can do a heck of a lot more than yours (okay, I have no idea what you use), and that's all that matters to me. Cool, eh? At least it's more "practical" than your line of reasoning!
Spike15, well said. Making masses into vegetables. As i see it, Queen gave masses high school education, enough earnings to have a holiday in Spain, buy few pints on the weekend and go to a football match, beyond that nobody as of vegetable masses likes Mr. jacobgong dont know where is Russia to say the least
jacobgong said:
Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well and your dream will be to get Adobe Flash support on the iPhone, which will never happen. And a browser without flash is just 50%. So you are forced to use a crappy app for youtube etc. And for you to know: your such beloved Safari browser is insecure as hell. Just google "Safari vulnerabilities" and you will see. So go away and shove that ugly thing up your arse.
hi all members i very like it on this forums
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.
I use WM6.5 because it gives me the most desktop-like experience:
I can explore files and folders without limits
I can edit *.sys *.bat *.txt *.whatever files
I can use context menus (send to, cut copy paste, zip, mail, etc)
I can directly copy/download/use my desktop files (without the need for a sync software or any kind of permissions)
I can customize and rearange my desktop at will
I can find tons of free (or cheap) software everywhere
I can edit and tweak some DLLs
etc...
I have not tested WP7 personaly, but it seems like it is going to loose all of these desktop-like features in favour of a more closed, iPhone-clone experience.
AM I WRONG ???
I was SO concerned I just tested a new Android 2.2 phone.
At a first glance and to my surprise, the UI was boring and nearly non-customizable, there wasn't even a simple FILE EXPLORER preinstalled on it !!
Comming from WM6.5, Android made me feel like a caged bird...
Or am I mssing something ??
If WP7 is going in another direction, then, which other options do I have for a desktop-like pocket PC ??
A viliv N5 ??
I learned from an early age that sometimes things change and I have to adapt to new methods of doing things. But I remembered when I went from DOS 6.22 to Windows 95. I didn't have as much control through autoexec.bat and config.sys. I felt like I was losing a whole world. But I learned that there were new ways of doing things, and I had to adapt to the new paradigm shift that was taking place. I was around 13 at the time, so I didn't really understand it as much as I do today.
In the mobile space, things are moving away from being a mobile desktop and more of a window into certain services. You'll have to learn how to customize those devices to get them to fulfill your use case, and it won't be the same as the previous generation.
You are not right. The whole world still using Windows XP despite of titanic efforts of MS to clap us Vista. Windows 7 is slightly better but still XP is the best one. Same will happen with WP7. We will still use 6.5 and develop programs for it as it will be the better OS. I will not be surprised if I see 6.5 port for HD3 With so much power WM6.5 will work like charm on HD3.
gom99 said:
But I remembered when I went from DOS 6.22 to Windows 95. I didn't have as much control through autoexec.bat and config.sys. I felt like I was losing a whole world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sound like you never used DOS 6.22 and Win95... This statement is comical and if you weren't a retard accomplishing most of the same tasks in Windows were trivial. The only thing you couldn't load though those files in Windows 95 was EMM386.
Also, who went from DOS straight to Win95? Where were you from 91 to 95, sleeping?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
**** DOS and Win95. Windows NT 3.5 was where it's at!
Yeah, I actually ran it and everything NT beyond it. **** Win9x 4 lyfe.
gtrab said:
I use WM6.5 because it gives me the most desktop-like experience:
I can explore files and folders without limits
I can edit *.sys *.bat *.txt *.whatever files
I can use context menus (send to, cut copy paste, zip, mail, etc)
I can directly copy/download/use my desktop files (without the need for a sync software or any kind of permissions)
I can customize and rearange my desktop at will
I can find tons of free (or cheap) software everywhere
I can edit and tweak some DLLs
etc...
I have not tested WP7 personaly, but it seems like it is going to loose all of these desktop-like features in favour of a more closed, iPhone-clone experience.
AM I WRONG ???
I was SO concerned I just tested a new Android 2.2 phone.
At a first glance and to my surprise, the UI was boring and nearly non-customizable, there wasn't even a simple FILE EXPLORER preinstalled on it !!
Comming from WM6.5, Android made me feel like a caged bird...
Or am I mssing something ??
If WP7 is going in another direction, then, which other options do I have for a desktop-like pocket PC ??
A viliv N5 ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it's to be seen in what way WP7 will develop.
I have identical concerns.
As for Android 2.2, it actually has almost everything WM6.5 has.
If not preinstalled, it's on app store. Task managers, file managers....
I just really don't like Android feel and look.
I stay with WM 6.5 for some time too.
Maemo, maybe?
So... there are no current real options to my concerns
Well, you may be right: I may have to "adapt" (evolve) and quit my WM6.5 cooking/tweaking freedom ...or go find a good phone software for a Viliv N5
I am seriously considering the N5 possibility
Lets see what happens when WP7 comes out
I am amazed how people in this forum are not happy with the new direction WP7 is taking... Let me explain why.
While I love doing everything the OP has stated, I love doing it on my desktop/laptop because I find a use for it. I feel the need to customize and tweak the OS to fill my needs for some things, ie: task automation, background activites without me having to do anything, skins and so on and so forth.
While I did this on my TP2 as well, i slowly get bored of this for two reasons: 1°) the phone will never have the kind of power to do all of this without slowing in day to day use, which my TP2 does and my Diamond before that, and 2°) The phone is designed for a) call/text, b) access all my services seamlessly (Zune and Windows Live are my first priorities).
In 2010, people want access to services. They don't want to go into a registry. I mean, wtf should i go and edit something in HEX, or DWord or whatever in 2010? To gain something that will make my system unstable? No, users want seemless services, accessible from everywhere, and that is something that WP7 provides.
I feel that, if I have to do some editing of the OS, then I shouldn't have to spend 600 euros and the phone. At that price, the phone is supposed to have a top notch performance, which, when you half bake a OS just like WM 6.x, is not present.
Consumers need a phone that works. And the iPhone-clone as everyone here not open minded enough to see that calls it is a great opportunity for those who like the concept of the iPhone but do not like the Phone or the company itself.
WP7 is a paradigm shift. And as Kuhn said, the world needs paradigm shifts in order to progress. This is one of these shifts that the iPhone started, the Android continued and that WP7 will end.
It's a great era for the consumer. Open your mind.
NoWorthWhile said:
I am amazed how people in this forum are not happy with the new direction WP7 is taking... Let me explain why.
While I love doing everything the OP has stated, I love doing it on my desktop/laptop because I find a use for it. I feel the need to customize and tweak the OS to fill my needs for some things, ie: task automation, background activites without me having to do anything, skins and so on and so forth.
While I did this on my TP2 as well, i slowly get bored of this for two reasons: 1°) the phone will never have the kind of power to do all of this without slowing in day to day use, which my TP2 does and my Diamond before that, and 2°) The phone is designed for a) call/text, b) access all my services seamlessly (Zune and Windows Live are my first priorities).
In 2010, people want access to services. They don't want to go into a registry. I mean, wtf should i go and edit something in HEX, or DWord or whatever in 2010? To gain something that will make my system unstable? No, users want seemless services, accessible from everywhere, and that is something that WP7 provides.
I feel that, if I have to do some editing of the OS, then I shouldn't have to spend 600 euros and the phone. At that price, the phone is supposed to have a top notch performance, which, when you half bake a OS just like WM 6.x, is not present.
Consumers need a phone that works. And the iPhone-clone as everyone here not open minded enough to see that calls it is a great opportunity for those who like the concept of the iPhone but do not like the Phone or the company itself.
WP7 is a paradigm shift. And as Kuhn said, the world needs paradigm shifts in order to progress. This is one of these shifts that the iPhone started, the Android continued and that WP7 will end.
It's a great era for the consumer. Open your mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I say - it's bull****. Complete.
I agree the OS has to work, sure. That's why developers should work hard to bring the possibilites to the user, not cut them because it's difficult.
I agree that I should not be forced to tweak any registry when I don't need to and I should be able to seamlessly use a device without bigger effort.
However I disagree with making people idiots.
And why the hell you tell me what I should do with the device?
Wake up. Pocket devices are the future. I don't see a ****ing reason why after 10 years of development suddenly many options are OUT. There's no reason to take away the features just because of UI change.
But the biggest bull**** you say is with "it just works"...
If I can compose an email, but cannot add many different attachements to it because of system limitation, IT DOESN'T ****ING WORK at all!!!
It doesn't "just works". It does things Microsoft imagined I want to do, instead of leaving me more options. There are many simple task which simply "it just doesn't work"
doministry said:
And I say - it's bull****. Complete.
I agree the OS has to work, sure. That's why developers should work hard to bring the possibilites to the user, not cut them because it's difficult.
I agree that I should not be forced to tweak any registry when I don't need to and I should be able to seamlessly use a device without bigger effort.
However I disagree with making people idiots.
And why the hell you tell me what I should do with the device?
Wake up. Pocket devices are the future. I don't see a ****ing reason why after 10 years of development suddenly many options are OUT. There's no reason to take away the features just because of UI change.
But the biggest bull**** you say is with "it just works"...
If I can compose an email, but cannot add many different attachements to it because of system limitation, IT DOESN'T ****ING WORK at all!!!
It doesn't "just works". It does things Microsoft imagined I want to do, instead of leaving me more options. There are many simple task which simply "it just doesn't work"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in NO way trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your device. I'm merely asking you what the hell you are doing with a small size device that requires THAT amount of customisation/tweaking.
Yes, it does just work. If you need to write a freaking novel on your phone, then sorry, but something's wrong in your head.
Tell me what do you want that WP7 can't do? Heavy text editing? You've got your PC for that. A phone is a phone, NOT a pc. What you need is a Tablet/Slate with Data service.
NoWorthWhile said:
I am in NO way trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your device. I'm merely asking you what the hell you are doing with a small size device that requires THAT amount of customisation/tweaking.
Yes, it does just work. If you need to write a freaking novel on your phone, then sorry, but something's wrong in your head.
Tell me what do you want that WP7 can't do? Heavy text editing? You've got your PC for that. A phone is a phone, NOT a pc. What you need is a Tablet/Slate with Data service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opinions like that are the most destructive **** in this world.
There's rather something wrong in your head, and you exactly try to judge what I should do with my device - again. And you tell me what I need. Bravo.
Maybe you don't have need to do much with your phone but that's your choice.
People use devices in extensive way for decade, wake up. Why the hell should I be like you?!
I was able to do everything I want last 10 years, so I just want to continue like that.
doministry said:
Opinions like that are the most destructive **** in this world.
There's rather something wrong in your head, and you exactly try to judge what I should do with my device - again. And you tell me what I need. Bravo.
Maybe you don't have need to do much with your phone but that's your choice.
People use devices in extensive way for decade, wake up. Why the hell should I be like you?!
I was able to do everything I want last 10 years, so I just want to continue like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In what way is that destructive? Change is good, and in this case, you've also got the choice of what to buy (or not buy). You seem unhappy with WP7 for reasons of your own, and I respect that, but what IS destructive is what you are doing right now: denying evolution.
Let me give you one example:
http://www.ted.com/talks/john_under...urce=direct-on.ted.com&utm_content=site-basic
It's still far away in the future, but I'm guessing (guessing, not stating) that it wont likely be as customizable as Windows 7, or say, XP. Will THAT be a bad thing? It WILL eventually change the way we interact with PCs. No more folders, no more registrys, no more freaking .sys .bat. dll files, but instead, content. Videos, Music, Documents, Websites, and so on so forth. Is THAT a bad thing?
I am in no way telling you to be like me, that's the point of humans, we are all different. But I can twist the matter in any way possible, for me, my cellphone is a CONSUMPTION device. Not a device that is meant for creation. And that is limited by the physical form factor of the device. No OS, good or bad, old or new will ever be able to achieve the level of usability you seek to achieve. If WM 6.x seems the choice for you, then stick with it.
OK, after reading every comment, well...
You talk "smart phone"
I dreaam "pocket PC" (read it again: a PC that fits in my pocket)
If I "just" wanted a smart phone that really works, I would have got the iPhone ages ago, but I AM DIFFERENT, I am not the standard joe looking for a phone that makes phones calls and can tweet, NO !!
I need to carry my PC on my pocket (or at least a mirror of my PC) !!
But I am learnig that is NOT happening... Santa didn't hear my WP7 wishes...
Then,
May HTML5 save us from "mobile versions" of web pages
and May Moore's Law put a full Win7 PC on my pocket in the near future !!
PS: DO YOU guys really think omitting cut/paste from their new mobile OS is really EVOLUTION ??
Isn't it going BACKWARDS ??
Tech Inquisition ?? (stick with what we offer you, don't dream different things)
What's next ??
Will I have to pray a savior god and pay a monthly portion of my incomes for my phone too ??
Now I get what you really want. Then, by all means, I apologize.
But, yeah, as I already told you, the closest thing to what you want is either Winmo 6.5, or a 7 inch Archos with Win7 on it...
To answer to your PS: Yes, omitting copy/paste and multitasking is a mistake, but I trust MS to bring it along down the road someday. As I rarely ever use copy/paste I don't really care, but I care most about Multitasking.
And my own PS: I'm not an average Joe either, I always hate the iPhone not for the device itself, but for the ecosystem behind it, because let's face it, that's where the pocket devices are headed to: the center of an ecosystem.
EDIT:
gtrab said:
Will I have to pray a savior god and pay a monthly portion of my incomes for my phone too ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It already happened: the god is Steve Jobs, and you pay a Data Plan every month [Humour]
Also, I realize I answered to the wrong person xD
gtrab said:
If I "just" wanted a smart phone that really works, I would have got the iPhone ages ago, but I AM DIFFERENT, I am not the standard joe looking for a phone that makes phones calls and can tweet, NO !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone can do much more than that. As I took a temporary trip to the dark side and use an iPhone now I want WP7 more and more each day because MS seem to tackle some of the most annoying problems with this device - WP7 has a much better mail client, a much more useful calendar and non-intrusive notifications, things that piss me off every day on the iPhone. The hadware Back button is also sorely missing on Jesus Phone.
N8ter said:
You sound like you never used DOS 6.22 and Win95... This statement is comical and if you weren't a retard accomplishing most of the same tasks in Windows were trivial. The only thing you couldn't load though those files in Windows 95 was EMM386.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MSDOS was much less arcane than Windows 95 ie it was fairly easy to see and understand what was being loaded at startup. That's what I was referring to.
N8ter said:
Also, who went from DOS straight to Win95? Where were you from 91 to 95, sleeping?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't get what you mean by this...wasn't win95 the integration of MSDOS & Windows Line? What was I supposed to be using? Windows 3.1 more of a GUI on top of DOS. I only loaded windows if I wanted to run a program in windows.
NoWorthWhile said:
In what way is that destructive? Change is good, and in this case, you've also got the choice of what to buy (or not buy). You seem unhappy with WP7 for reasons of your own, and I respect that, but what IS destructive is what you are doing right now: denying evolution.
Let me give you one example:
http://www.ted.com/talks/john_under...urce=direct-on.ted.com&utm_content=site-basic
It's still far away in the future, but I'm guessing (guessing, not stating) that it wont likely be as customizable as Windows 7, or say, XP. Will THAT be a bad thing? It WILL eventually change the way we interact with PCs. No more folders, no more registrys, no more freaking .sys .bat. dll files, but instead, content. Videos, Music, Documents, Websites, and so on so forth. Is THAT a bad thing?
I am in no way telling you to be like me, that's the point of humans, we are all different. But I can twist the matter in any way possible, for me, my cellphone is a CONSUMPTION device. Not a device that is meant for creation. And that is limited by the physical form factor of the device. No OS, good or bad, old or new will ever be able to achieve the level of usability you seek to achieve. If WM 6.x seems the choice for you, then stick with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, evolution! I love evolution!
That's why WP7 UI paradigm appeals to me!
That's why after many years bricky phones with phonebook and tiny monochromatic screens were replaced by multi functionality devices
with colour touchscreens, cameras and also many COMPUTER functions!
With operating systems inside! Why? Do give MORE functionality!!!!
Evolution means MORE and BETTER.
If you take away functionality for UCLEAR reasons it's a step back!
They do it for the policy. Removing normal file access is rubbish and limiting the user
without any real functionality reasons.
By the way I was never limited by the phone's form factor.
And instead of dragging everywhere ****ing laptop I have all in my pocket, ready!
And your arguments are not credible for me.
And Apple were saying the same, just to bring everything BACK, making big Bang! with it.
You say it's just a phone yet all WP7 devices actually CONTAIN all the applications which make it almost pocket PC. Just apps itself are limited.
Bull****. It's just a policy.
So, in your opinion, what is the reason for this policy? Insanity? Uncontrollable desire to copy everything Apple does, as some people love to suggest? Or maybe there is something they found worth considering?
vangrieg said:
So, in your opinion, what is the reason for this policy? Insanity? Uncontrollable desire to copy everything Apple does, as some people love to suggest? Or maybe there is something they found worth considering?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Policy?
Keep their OS locked so less people have any access to it?
Make a devices unified in UI so they reach a brand feel on the phones regardless of producer?
Control the stability in processes which are much harder to control?
Prevent unauthorized copying?
Differentiate phone and PC so the user is somehow forced to have both devices?
I could probably find more...
As for Apple: well, no - blind copying no. But copying some things definitely yes.
Of course they have many innovative ideas and I think it has big chance, considering it is really modern and offers great new UI paradigm.
Today at my University we had a marquee out the front near the main car park talking about Microsoft Graduates and inside they were showing of Microsoft Surface, Kinect and Windows Phone 7.
It wasn't hard to get a glance, especially considering everyone was mostly interested in the Kinect, I had a play with the Windows Phone 7 handset.
To be honest, I was expecting more, I was really disappointed, there is nothing that it can offer except for flashy transitions and pretty colours. Yes its true that applications will be released to improve the phone's functionality but there is definitely a limit to that because of the current API.
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users.
Does anyone know how WP7 handles notifications? Is it similar to iOS? I hope not. Android nailed it with their notification system, I wish Windows Mobile had something similar.
The menu in which you 'upload to facebook', is it limited? Can developers add functionality to this menu, will you ever see 'post on twitter' or anything like that?
On a positive note, WP7 is smooth, looks great and Internet Explorer is a whole new browser.
(Side note: University of Surrey is broadcasting the Microsoft PDC10 live on Thursday this week and one lucky attendee will win a WP7 Handset)
WP7 notifications are kinda a cross between Android and iPhone. The biggest downside to WP7 notifications is that once it goes away, you can't see it in a list or anything.
Re: "WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users." - I don't think Microsoft has any intention on every going after the "hardcore WM5/6 users." If you're expecting WM6 levels of customizability and openness, switch to Android.
If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management
AceofSpades25 said:
If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management
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Click to collapse
lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.
RustyGrom said:
lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.
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Click to collapse
lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously
AceofSpades25 said:
lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously
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If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.
RustyGrom said:
If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.
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Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.
Nah it's pretty much awesome
I also used WP7 the first time today - and it's AWESOME!!!
Don't listen to this guy (no offense )
I think everyone here saw the videos of Walkthroughs etc, so I don't know how you can get disappointed by using it.
It's exactly what you saw, just quadrippel times more awesome, cause you actually see it for real and touch it yourself
A Vodafone store had a LG Optimus 7 and I played with it for half an hour.
I just can't wait till the Omnia 7 finally arrives here in Germany. I'll definitly buy that and hopefully be happy with it
No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?
gmatharu12 said:
No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?
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yes, each application has its own restricted space. The only exception to this rule are images and videos (I think).
I know all your images are kept in one common place, and apps can use a hook they've provided in the api to load images from this place.
Any other app you can think of that would require side loading of files, would not work.
AceofSpades25 said:
Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.
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That would encourage both sloppy app development and content piracy.
Are YOU a developer?
A platform that indirectly encourages piracy doesn't get first-class support from the industry. Only exception is Windows Mobile, and only because it is compatible with the DRM in e.g. Zune Pass music.
Looks lile so,e people don't take piracy serious enough. It's a huge problem, amd a few users crying about design decisions aided to combat it in a forum are pretty much worth doing it.
Lime Wire was just shut down by a court. The media industry does not play around, and neither does the law.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
What a HUGE disappointment for a UI
Ok, so panes slide around. SO WHAT? The thing as I have seen it in videos looks like a PIECE OF JUNK. Just look at the picture of mine... How can you compare that or any of our WM6.5 phones on this forum to a BLAH screen that has three cubes on it? YECH. Is this is the way they leave it, I think that will be the end of WM. Just wait another year and there will be so few buyers of the WM7 phones they will be discontinued.
gmatharu12 said:
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
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U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
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Lol exactly
ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
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Oh yeah?! So try to copy internet link and send it to your friend by sms.
Retard.
I really miss my WP7.x phone with it's hacks and ROMs Also there is not much going on over at the WP8 forum...
sinister1 said:
I really miss my WP7.x phone with it's hacks and ROMs Also there is not much going on over at the WP8 forum...
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there not all hackable
can I take it you have a WP8 device now?
if so give it a chance, doesn't wp8 use a similar bootloader to Win RT devices that's locked down tight? give them, time
I was looking at this SD card support feature that allows you to install xaps, I don't suppose ave much experience with it?
I used a Lumia 820 for a month which I loved but had to sell it due to lack of work, WP8 runs very well but there is still much room for improvement,
Now using a Titan running a custom 7.8 rom, Actually prefer it to the 820 as it has a bigger screen,still as responsive as the Lumia was, zune still works which I prefer over the WP8 desktop client, I do miss the 32GB memory card though, But I can mess around with the roms and stuff on the Titan,
Until my contract is up in March I will be staying with my Titan but may go with the Samsung ATIVs as I do like a big screen
Hopefully someone will eventually crack the WP8 bootloader with HSPL.
I expected Windows phone 8 to be much more of an improvement over 7.5 than it is. kinda sad really
Its hard to imagine how much of a difference there could be, people slate wp7, compare it to android and IOS, but the reality is you can't compare apples an oranges, its not practical, in saying that there are a few areas lacking but given the scope of changes from 7.5 id assume ms maid making sure the thing actually works (new kernel) before pimping it up
Sent from my SGH-i937 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
dazza9075 said:
Its hard to imagine how much of a difference there could be, people slate wp7, compare it to android and IOS, but the reality is you can't compare apples an oranges, its not practical, in saying that there are a few areas lacking but given the scope of changes from 7.5 id assume ms maid making sure the thing actually works (new kernel) before pimping it up
Sent from my SGH-i937 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Been hearing that for years now....
" oh it's coming"
Yeah it's been nearly three years.
crixley said:
Been hearing that for years now....
" oh it's coming"
Yeah it's been nearly three years.
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whats been years? I was under the impression we were talking about WP7 to 8, in which case its been a couple of months
ill could roll back the clock even further if you like and say everything android and ios has WM had a decade before hand, the fact WP doesn't have many feature is perhaps is down to the fact that more does not mean better, quite the opposite is true as it happens, any how its irrelevant. WP is what it is and is exceptionally good at what it does, 7 or 8.
dazza9075 said:
whats been years? I was under the impression we were talking about WP7 to 8, in which case its been a couple of months
ill could roll back the clock even further if you like and say everything android and ios has WM had a decade before hand, the fact WP doesn't have many feature is perhaps is down to the fact that more does not mean better, quite the opposite is true as it happens, any how its irrelevant. WP is what it is and is exceptionally good at what it does, 7 or 8.
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lacking basic features != better
this is the " pimping it up" you were referring to I'm sure.
it doesn't have much time left, if it doesn't pick up momentum soon it isn't going to
crixley said:
lacking basic features != better
this is the " pimping it up" you were referring to I'm sure.
it doesn't have much time left, if it doesn't pick up momentum soon it isn't going to
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what basic features are missing? I'm an old school PPC user and I don't miss any of it, an why I said about pimping was that wp8 is probably concentrating on the core, much like mango brought in new features for 7, wp8 will likely do the same
Sent from my SGH-i937 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
dazza9075 said:
there not all hackable
can I take it you have a WP8 device now?
if so give it a chance, doesn't wp8 use a similar bootloader to Win RT devices that's locked down tight? give them, time
I was looking at this SD card support feature that allows you to install xaps, I don't suppose ave much experience with it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I loaded two apps on to my SD card; a store app & a homebrew app. After 20 mins or so the SD opption poped up in the Market Place options but only the store app showed up. Apperantly it goes out to the Market Place and checks to see if it's signed
I read that you can side load apps using SDK 8.0 but you need Windows 8 Pro 64-bit version to do so
crixley said:
I expected Windows phone 8 to be much more of an improvement over 7.5 than it is. kinda sad really
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Click to collapse
Agreed, though there are some really nice features on WP8 that I love like the built in screen capture, bluetooth data transfer and the new voice dictation; I feel it could be so much more. There still is no option for custom email or sms notifications either WTF
crixley said:
lacking basic features != better
this is the " pimping it up" you were referring to I'm sure.
it doesn't have much time left, if it doesn't pick up momentum soon it isn't going to
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Click to collapse
Yeap features like custom MMS,SMS and email notifications tones (option that has been around for 5 yers +), a file explorer on the phone which doesn't make any kind of sense since I can plug my WP8 device to my PC and browse folders, sepreate volume controls, an option to add more custom tile colors or even to add a start screen background image (Please for the love of God!) and the list goes on.
sinister1 said:
Yeap features like custom MMS,SMS and email notifications tones (option that has been around for 5 yers +), a file explorer on the phone which doesn't make any kind of sense since I can plug my WP8 device to my PC and browse folders, sepreate volume controls, an option to add more custom tile colors or even to add a start screen background image (Please for the love of God!) and the list goes on.
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Click to collapse
you can do custom tones, ring tones as well, its not easy at all but its doable. you can setup different tones for different people too. A file explorer for what reason? what do you want to explore, bare in mind that all apps are sandboxed and cant see out side their own data folder anyway, youd only want to browse about if your in to modding it, which you cant do on WP8 at the moment, volume we have been over already, more custom tiles is the same as volume, you want to add a start screen image to a screen that potentially could be longer than the image and would have a very silly aspect ratio and is 75% covered in tiles that cover it up In the first place? and normal folk "want" this? if so they have no idea what it means
Look im not just being difficult, customer perception is my profession, and I can promise you that whilst these features may be nice for people on websites like this, they mean diddly squat to anyone else who just wants it to work
WP isn't Android, or iOS and it cant be compared to them, or even WM, its a totally different beast and is not meant to offer PPC like experiences, it must establish a brand that sets it apart from others, since most people couldn't give too hoots about these so called essential features, MS has restricted the ability to change a devices image to anything that may set it aside from the main image it is portraying. ill admit that custom tile colours could be added, but the real question is how to do that and make it easy for idiots that don't know anything about phones, but yes that at least is feasible.
More and more you see WP seeping in to society, the SMS tone is great, most folk don't change it and you can instantly recognise which people have a WP device (or probably does!)
Everything you have stated would be nice for us, but my job is knowing job blogs public and I can promise you that the vast majority of people really don't give a ****..
dazza9075 said:
whats been years? I was under the impression we were talking about WP7 to 8, in which case its been a couple of months
ill could roll back the clock even further if you like and say everything android and ios has WM had a decade before hand, the fact WP doesn't have many feature is perhaps is down to the fact that more does not mean better, quite the opposite is true as it happens, any how its irrelevant. WP is what it is and is exceptionally good at what it does, 7 or 8.
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Click to collapse
I think he means the fact that WP came out nearly 2 years ago and MS has been feeding us this crap that it's coming. Okay it's coming when? most of the features that are missing we had on WM LOL. What is so hard for them to give us the option of custom notification alerts? Seriously?
dazza9075 said:
you can do custom tones, ring tones as well, its not easy at all but its doable. you can setup different tones for different people too. A file explorer for what reason? what do you want to explore, bare in mind that all apps are sandboxed and cant see out side their own data folder anyway, youd only want to browse about if your in to modding it, which you cant do on WP8 at the moment, volume we have been over already, more custom tiles is the same as volume, you want to add a start screen image to a screen that potentially could be longer than the image and would have a very silly aspect ratio and is 75% covered in tiles that cover it up In the first place? and normal folk "want" this? if so they have no idea what it means
Look im not just being difficult, customer perception is my profession, and I can promise you that whilst these features may be nice for people on websites like this, they mean diddly squat to anyone else who just wants it to work
WP isn't Android, or iOS and it cant be compared to them, or even WM, its a totally different beast and is not meant to offer PPC like experiences, it must establish a brand that sets it apart from others, since most people couldn't give too hoots about these so called essential features, MS has restricted the ability to change a devices image to anything that may set it aside from the main image it is portraying. ill admit that custom tile colours could be added, but the real question is how to do that and make it easy for idiots that don't know anything about phones, but yes that at least is feasible.
More and more you see WP seeping in to society, the SMS tone is great, most folk don't change it and you can instantly recognise which people have a WP device (or probably does!)
Everything you have stated would be nice for us, but my job is knowing job blogs public and I can promise you that the vast majority of people really don't give a ****..
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Click to collapse
Hum? Can you share with me how to add custom MMS\SMS and email tones to my WP8 Lumina? That would be great. Wait now you’re confusing me first you say it's doable but then towards the end of your reply it says People don't change SMS, WTF? Also no one is trying to turn WP into a crappy Android (Android Sucks). But if you want to still be stuck with a boring phone that doesn't evolve and continues to look the same even 5 years from now like iOS then good for you.
I don't know about Wp8 as I don't have it but with 7 you can use Zune, trick is to change the genre to ringtones etc, having correct size and audio length. To be able to change the SMS tone which can be done and actually changing are two different things, there's no conflict there just your misunderstanding. You seem to be arguing with yourself, no one said They don't wan it to move with the times, what I have said is that moving with the times is exactly why much of what you ask for hasn't been added
Sent from my SGH-i937 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
You can change text tones? I can't find it , can you link me up?
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
dazza9075 said:
I don't know about Wp8 as I don't have it but with 7 you can use Zune, trick is to change the genre to ringtones etc, having correct size and audio length. To be able to change the SMS tone which can be done and actually changing are two different things, there's no conflict there just your misunderstanding. You seem to be arguing with yourself, no one said They don't wan it to move with the times, what I have said is that moving with the times is exactly why much of what you ask for hasn't been added
Sent from my SGH-i937 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Yes on WP7 you can via a hombebrew app and unlocked phone buy not on WP8. WP8 doesn't use Zune anymore by the way.
sinister1 said:
Yes on WP7 you can via a hombebrew app and unlocked phone buy not on WP8. WP8 doesn't use Zune anymore by the way.
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Click to collapse
have you tried putting on the ringtones folder a 38 seconds long mp3 @ 128kbps with its "genre" tag set to "ringtone"? (or "ringtones", i forgot) you don't need homebrew nor zune to do that; any mp3 tagger worth its salt will allow you to freely change that field
use your favorite audio editor (eg. audacity) to cut a 38 sec. sample, save as a mp3 cbr 128kbps, use a tagger or some audio player (eg. winamp) to edit its id3 tags, delete -just for keeps- the id3v1 tags if you can, edit the id3v2 "genre" tag to "ringtone", save, copy from pc, paste to phone, enjoy
a 38 ~ 39 sec. mp3 @ 128 practically guarantees that the file will be usable as a tone
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well, go figure... http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/how-to/wp8/start/add-ringtones-to-my-phone
Yes, this is for ringtones but for ringtones only; there is no way that I know of to make a custom notification tone for a text, email or instant message. :crying: