Related
I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry
Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.
I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.
+1 good post b
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
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So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..
Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.
style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
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I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.
style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
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No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.
Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
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The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.
If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~
vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
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HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
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Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.
Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S
Suggested thread from the one over iPhone because we were getting off topic. What are going to be the advantages of WP7 over Android that will keep everyone from switching to Google's open platform?
Integration with Microsoft's services.
I use them a lot and I like them, but they're not enough to keep me on WM. They will, unfortunately, also not be enough to make me get WP7. At least not until all of WP7's restrictions are lifted and I can find equivalents for all the apps I have on my phone now.
Other than that, unfortunately, there is nothing that WP7 does better than Android, from what I can see. I prefer Android's UI (tiles are just widgets, but widgets are better) and of course I prefer it's openness, customizability and the unlimited possibilities.
vangrieg said:
It's incomplete.
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If you want notes and tasks, yes. But there are apps for that. Everything else is there.
But people are not buying operating systems, they are buying phones. They don't ask "what OS does this phone run". They ask "what can this phone do".
If they need Exchange, they will get a phone with Exchange.
Not on all devices. Not well on all devices.
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Right. But I'll repeat myself:
People are not buying operating systems, they are buying phones. They don't ask "what OS does this phone run". They ask "what can this phone do".
If they need multitouch, they will buy a phone with multitouch.
Yes, we geeks ask "what OS does this phone run". But not normal people. We geeks can talk about fragmentation. Normal people will never think about that, they'll just ask "can this phone do what I want?".
Fragmentation is a non-issue. And it's not only bad. Android running on more phones means more customers, means more people buying apps, means more developers, means more apps, means more customers..................
1. Only high-end devices, which means apps won't be made for the least common denominator.
2. Native full multiple account Exchange support.
3. Built-in Office stuff, with Sharepoint (wow!)
4. MS-supplied drivers, made together with chip manufacturer, no crappy stuff from HTC or whoever.
5. Integration of web services (including third-party ones) in a meaningful way - contacts go to contacts, pictures to device picture library, without doing everything in a separate app - this way even I'll be using Facebook.
6. Real OTA updates, for all devices, because of a truly uniform platform.
7. Awesome UI, not a bland iPhone/WM third party launcher rip-off, both in terms of looks (subjective) and in terms of functionality (OS level widgets with rich APIs allowing to update text, graphics and animation). Hubs are an awesome idea too. Lots of text, easy to read/see what you need to tap. Everything I ever dreamed of in a UI actually.
8. Dev tools making creating awesome UI consistent with overall OS very easy.
9. Absolutely best video codec support out of the box, with perspective OTA additions for all devices.
10. Gorgeous desktop software for syncing stuff - Zune software is truly amazing - fast, flexible, great looking, I couldn't believe it were from Microsoft.
These are just a few things that came to mind immediately.
vangrieg said:
1. Only high-end devices, which means apps won't be made for the least common denominator.
2. Native full multiple account Exchange support.
3. Built-in Office stuff, with Sharepoint (wow!)
4. MS-supplied drivers, made together with chip manufacturer, no crappy stuff from HTC or whoever.
5. Integration of web services (including third-party ones) in a meaningful way - contacts go to contacts, pictures to device picture library, without doing everything in a separate app - this way even I'll be using Facebook.
6. Real OTA updates, for all devices, because of a truly uniform platform.
7. Awesome UI, not a bland iPhone/WM third party launcher rip-off, both in terms of looks (subjective) and in terms of functionality (OS level widgets with rich APIs allowing to update text, graphics and animation). Hubs are an awesome idea too. Lots of text, easy to read/see what you need to tap. Everything I ever dreamed of in a UI actually.
8. Dev tools making creating awesome UI consistent with overall OS very easy.
9. Absolutely best video codec support out of the box, with perspective OTA additions for all devices.
10. Gorgeous desktop software for syncing stuff - Zune software is truly amazing - fast, flexible, great looking, I couldn't believe it were from Microsoft.
These are just a few things that came to mind immediately.
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Damn, great list! I couldn't of said it better myself. But you forgot Xbox live support and acheivements!
1. Since the Market shows only compatible apps, apps do NOT have to be made for the least common denominator, like on WM
2. This is there on Android
3.
4.
5. This is actually better on Android with Sense.
6. Doesn't matter. People own one device, they don't care if others get OTA updates (talking about normal people)
7. The UI looks VERY ineffiecient. VERY VERY inefficient. Wasted space everywhere (why are the programs a freakin' list?! And why so few tiles per screen? That makes it VERY hard to get to apps). Android's UI is much better.
8. Dev tools are VERY restricted. Awesome UI yes, but no native APIs = Awesone looking apps with no functionality = useless
9. Not true. Some Android devices have better codec support OOTB.
10.
I'll agree with the rest, where I've not written something.
That's against:
1. Multitasking, enables lots of possibilities (streaming radio, IM clients and other clients, navigation)
2. Copy&paste
3. Customizability (not only looks, but also easily change the default apps for everything)
4. Apps, apps, apps - a huge market
5. A native development kit - enables much richer functionality for apps
6. More efficient UI
7. You don't have to pay for high-end phones and can still get lots of the functionality
8. Google services (hey, they're not THAT bad)
9. File system access - enables richer functionality for apps and removes the requirement for proprietary syncing methods (or emailind things to oneself ).
Sethos II said:
If you want notes and tasks, yes. But there are apps for that. Everything else is there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2.1 in Nexus One doesn't do Calendar sync. Only with Google Calendar which I don't give a damn about. Third party apps do exist but they have limitations and their own problems; plus I don't want to rely on third parties (neither HTC nor things called Moxier) for this critical functionality.
Sethos II said:
But people are not buying operating systems, they are buying phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most Android phones suck. Nexus One is a great device except default UI and missing Exchange stuff; Desire has HTC built Exchange stuff but is the best one out there. Evo will be a serious contender when it comes out in a GSM incarnation, I'll take a close look at it.
Sethos II said:
Fragmentation is a non-issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is. Yes, there are benefits to hardware variety (especially for Google), but the downsides exist as well. They are well known and documented, so no need to repeat the same stuff over and over. You can choose to ignore them but it doesn't change the fact that they exist. Froyo will try to address it. I'll take a look at Android then, again.
2.1 in Nexus One doesn't do Calendar sync. Only with Google Calendar which I don't give a damn about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange. Mine does.
Most Android phones suck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least you get more than one. You usually buy only one phone, so why deos it matter to you whether other suck? Doesn't matter at all.
no need to repeat the same stuff over and over
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So far, the only thing that's been documented is that it is in fact NOT an issue:
If Google really thought there was a problem, they'd force restrictions. The plan described there makes sense, but doesn't adress the "issue" at all, except for Google's apps.
In reality, there isn't an issue. If a certain app doesn't run on your phone, it won't show up in the market. Phone upgrades usually go from lower to higher spec'd hardware, which means most likely more apps will run on the newer phone than on the old one.
The developer interest in Android also shows, that developers aren't too concerned. Developers are much more concerned about the restrictions they find on WP7, than about the fragmentation of Android.
Those restrictions make many projects impossible, whereas the fragmentation just means a bit more work to do.
Also, if they don't force restrictions, it means more phones will run Android. That means more people buying software, which makes up for the additional work developers have to do.
The only "issue" I can see is people buying cheap phones and then complaining that it doesn't work as well as the high-end Android phone they keep hearing about. But those are stupid people, anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now you can keep repeating yourself, but even if you keep saying it a thousand times, fragmentation won't become an issue.
Just because you're repeating it doesn't mean it will become true.
Sethos II said:
1. Since the Market shows only compatible apps, apps do NOT have to be made for the least common denominator, like on WM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the same with WM. You see only a fraction of apps in Marketplace (granted, this is a joke of an appstore, but still). The problem is, when the overwhelming majority of devices are crap, that's what normal devs will target. And that's what they do.
Sethos II said:
2. This is there on Android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
Sethos II said:
5. This is actually better on Android with Sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true. With Sense (which is a third party thing to begin with), you get what's built in. In WP7 you can have third party additional services hook into OS stuff in a very smooth way, way beyond the homescreen.
Sethos II said:
6. Doesn't matter. People own one device, they don't care if others get OTA updates (talking about normal people)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. Thing is, when Android 2.1 came out, how many devices get the OTA upgrade? What if the one device I own doesn't get it? If it will, will it work 100%? Will my hardware support features in 2.3?
Sethos II said:
Android's UI is much better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll leave this without comment. I said that's the UI I could only dream of - it just implements almost everything I wanted.
Sethos II said:
8. Dev tools are VERY restricted. Awesome UI yes, but no native APIs = Awesone looking apps with no functionality = useless
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it's not "useless", but no arguing it's incredibly limited. Me, I need an ebook reader and a satnav app. No use in WP7 without this stuff and copy/paste, I'm just not buying it. It's in a way like early Android without NDK, only much better in terms of UI frameworks and dev tools. We'll see how it evolves, it's a big uncertainty now. I personally think that most of the limitations originate in the very simple fact that SL3 just doesn't have the necessary functionality, while SL4 isn't ready yet and therefore couldn't be ported. Among other problems, current SL doesn't have methods to interact with native code. I suspect that this, rather than some religious principles, is the reason for not getting much of the stuff needed. So, in a nutshell, Android's APIs are arguably better in most areas apart from UI. Yet WP7 is hard to beat in this department.
Sethos II said:
9. Not true. Some Android devices have better codec support OOTB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You missed the point. You get codec support from Samsung but not HTC, just like it is with WM. There's little to no chance you'll get it from Google.
Sethos II said:
why deos it matter to you whether other suck?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, because I personally don't see a phone I would want to buy. That's one hell of a reason for me.
Sethos II said:
Strange. Mine does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Care to comment all this stuff?
It's the same with WM. You see only a fraction of apps in Marketplace (granted, this is a joke of an appstore, but still). The problem is, when the overwhelming majority of devices are crap, that's what normal devs will target. And that's what they do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's not. You're completely wrong here.
Devs make the apps they want. They want a high quality graphics game, they make it. They want an app that runs on every device, they make it. No problem there!
No.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
n WP7 you can have third party additional services hook into OS stuff in a very smooth way, way beyond the homescreen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. That's how it should be, but it's not. The dev tools don't allow enough integration.
Do you have an Android? If not, shut up. Cause I have one.
What if the one device I own doesn't get it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're not a geek, you don't care. Most people are not geeks. No problem here!
I'll leave this without comment. I said that's the UI I could only dream of - it just implements almost everything I wanted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lots of inefficiently used space is all you wanted? LOL
Well, it's not "useless", but no arguing it's incredibly limited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. That's why apps on Android will be much more functional. Maybe they don't look as beautiful, but they look good enough. WP7 will get lots of beautiful, awesome looking fart apps.
You missed the point. You get codec support from Samsung but not HTC, just like it is with WM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I didn't miss the point at all. Fact is, and I'm repeating myself again here, that people buy phones, not operating systems. They don't care whether the codec support comes from Google or HTC, they only care whether their phone can play their video or not.
Also, I don't see why Google wouldn't add codec suppot.
Well, because I personally don't see a phone I would want to buy. That's one hell of a reason for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What phone do you have? I'm sure my Nexus ca easily compete with it hardware-wise!
Care to comment all this stuff?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't know. I think I've downloaded a plugin or so. But I know it works on my phone.
EDIT: Ah well. That's what I did: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=5553563&postcount=2
I see it has to be rooted, because it wants the file in /system.
Well, I give you the points for that, but nevertheless, it works on mine
Plus, as I said, people buy devices. If they want Exchane, they ask "can this phone do Exchange" and if it's a Hero, Desire, Legend... then they get a "yes" and buy the device. I don't see any issue here.
The HTC apps are even better than the integration you get on WP7, or, at least as good. They merge your contacts together from Exchange, Google, SIM card, Facebook,...... just like WP7, but you get more control.
The Exchange mail inbox with HTC Sense is also better, or at least as good, as the Exchange inbox on WP7.
I really don't see an advantage for WP7 here. The HTC Sense stuff is just as good, or better.
Sethos II said:
Do you have an Android? If not, shut up. Cause I have one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great argument. I won't. Shut up yourself if you want.
Sethos II said:
That's why apps on Android will be much more functional. Maybe they don't look as beautiful, but they look good enough. WP7 will get lots of beautiful, awesome looking fart apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No arguing about functionality, at least in early WP7. I've already said I won't buy it for this reason. Yet it doesn't negate other benefits, including UI. And most Android apps look like crap to my taste.
Sethos II said:
No, I didn't miss the point at all. Fact is, and I'm repeating myself again here, that people buy phones, not operating systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you did miss the point. I can only get codec support if I buy Samsung phones. And I don't want them. I want an HTC Evo. It doesn't have codecs built in, and there are no decent third party video players yet. That's a drawback of the platform. WP7 will have the edge here. Whether it's important for you or not is a different matter.
Sethos II said:
What phone do you have? I'm sure my Nexus ca easily compete with it hardware-wise!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2. Until I see a GSM Evo I personally don't care for what else Android has.
Sethos II said:
I really don't see an advantage for WP7 here. The HTC Sense stuff is just as good, or better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do. I've had enough experience with HTC software to not want it. Ever. You may argue they magically turned into a great software company when they began developing for Android, but I won't believe. Native support for Exchange will always be preferrable to me. For others as well, I know it.
I've had enough experience with HTC software to not want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On Android?
If not, don't judge it. Cause HTC's Android software is fine.
Their WM software only sucks because WM sucks.
HD2. Until I see a GSM Evo I personally don't care for what else Android has.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm... let's see... my Nexus has the same hardware... except for the screen... which, frankly, looks much better than the HD2's (I had the HD2 before). It's also lighter, not such a fat brick. Still I prefer the HD2's Design, but that's not worth anything.
So I was right, your WM phone doesn't have better hardware...
Yes you did miss the point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you missed the point. You buy phones, not operating systems. And by the way, starting from the Desire, HTC's phones get the same codec support.
Great argument. I won't. Shut up yourself if you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You think you know more about Android, but you don't even have one! Really?! If you don't know something, don't talk about it.
Sethos II said:
You think you know more about Android, but you don't even have one! How stupid is that? Really, if you don't know something, don't talk about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do Android fanboys have to be rude? I didn't offend you in any way. Yes I do know something about Android, even though you have more experience and deeper knowledge. Some of the things are common knowledge though, you don't have to own an Android device to know that none of them offer 4.3" screens. Fragmentation is a more general phenomenon than Android itself, and there's enough written and said about it, including acknowledgements by Google themselves. There's a lot of well documented information like lack of native Exchange support, and so on. So please let's not resort to trolling.
Why do Android fanboys have to be rude?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not rude, but this is true!
Don't pretend you know more about Android than someone who is actually using one.
Even "common knowledge" is often nonsense!
And please, stop talking about "native Exchange support". It does have native Exchange support, peroid.
You can say "no calendar without rooting" (which also is not true for HTC devices), but stop denying that it doesn't have native Exchange support. It even supports multiple Exchange accounts! And on an HTC device, I can have my Exchange, including the calendar, pushed to my phone, PLUS my GMail pushed. Try that on a Windows Mobile phone!
I'm not pretending to know more about Android than you do. Never even tried.
Well, somehow you did.
Anyway, the iPhone is getting multiple Exchange account support.
I don't know, but I think this is all just embarrassing for Microsoft. I mean, yes, WP7 will also have that, but when? End of the year? Come on! WP7 should have been out one year ago!
And despite that it took so long, they couldn't even figure out multitasking or notifications! I mean, they had the iPhone, the Pre, Android and so on to copy from, but they even fail at copying the others!
Oh wow... now they've even announced a gaming network... OMG. This is it for WP7. How embarrassing...
http://tweakers.net/reviews/1625/1/interview-microsoft-over-windows-phone-7-inleiding.html
In WP7 (they say they might fix this later), if you are using the phone for GPS navigation....and receive a phone call....the GPS software gets closed by the OS.
No, really.
discuss.
I think, in 2010, this is just sad.
That's all I have to say.
Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
I just don't understand what they are thinking.
Mights as well buy Palm and continue developping their OS.
I hope HTC buy Palm and develop webOS phones instead of WP7 ones.
If they want to lose some money then yes, buying Palm would be a good idea.
Lose money? I don't think so.
Palm is cheap, they get lots of patents and a great mobile OS and don't have to pay license fees to Microsoft anymore.
Better than making phones that can't even get a GPS signal while on a call.
Palm is losing money and breaking even is nowhere in sight. They have less than 12 months worth of cash to stay afloat, and their losses are accelerating. Great example of how consumers care for keeping GPS applications running while in a call. Buying them won't change that. Maintaining an OS is an expensive business, and it will be even more competitive in the nearest future, especially with Google paying everybody left and right to make and sell their phones.
Whether WP7 will sell well or not at all will depend on many things, among which multitasking is hardly a crucially important one. Making WP7 phones, on the other hand, relieves HTC of any and all present and future patent headaches forever, without buying lame ducks like Palm.
You forget the hardware patents.
Anyway, pretty useless discussion, since it's totally impossible to say whether they would lose or win. Apparently, they're interested in buying them, which means they apparently think that they could benefit. In any case, your statement was inappropriate, cause you don't know anything.
Back on topic, it's really sad that in 2010, we still have to deal with operating systems that can't multitask. Big fail.
... This is sad man. WP7 was not exactly well thought out was it.
nsane said:
In WP7 (they say they might fix this later), if you are using the phone for GPS navigation....and receive a phone call....the GPS software gets closed by the OS.
No, really.
discuss.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats not at all what Kindel said there. he isnt even talking about navigation and he actually CONFIRMS that such services (GPS, Navigation) should and will be able to multitask in the future(probably not at the first launch).
What's the difference? To say something will be added in the future is exactly the same as saying it doesn't work.
vangrieg said:
What's the difference? To say something will be added in the future is exactly the same as saying it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly. it seems the WP7 first launch version will be VERY poor in functionality. but after all I still don't get it why they just didn't "boost up" 6.5 and add Silverlight, NDA, new home screen concept (HUBS) on top of it and everything previously known is still working fine....
RAMMANN said:
I still don't get it why they just didn't "boost up" 6.5 and add Silverlight, NDA, new home screen concept (HUBS) on top of it and everything previously known is still working fine....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what they actually did. They just got rid of GDI (which didn't "work fine"), and replaced it with SL. The latter, being a web technology, simply doesn't have the stuff we're all missing (i.e. interaction between applications, file system access, native code etc. etc.). So getting many of these features in WP7 will require that they appear in SL and then get ported to the mobile platform I guess. Some of them (like SD card support) are dropped because they don't make sense without file system access. Others (like sideloading) are probably policy decisions which make some business sense (they need to populate the Marketplace as fast as possible, and providing alternative ways to distribute apps might not be a great idea to achieve that).
Before I get boo'd off the stage, just hear me out.
I'm new to the whole cell phone modding scene as the EVO is the first nice phone I've ever had. When I get a new product, I'm the type of person that's going to customize it any way possible, even at the risk of breaking it (gotta love those high risk behaviors).
So my question is, what is the likelihood of seeing an unofficial WinMo7 flash for the EVO? Is this just way beyond the technical capabilities of anyone on the modding scene without access to internal specs? Are there any other phones that this type of thing has been done on to provide a frame of reference?
Don't get me wrong, I love Android and I've been very supportive of the products and developers on the marketplace. I'd just really like the option to flash WinMo7 if I wanted to.
And hey, at least I didn't say iOS4 right?
Considering that WM7 is about 4-6 months out from even being released, it is probably a little silly to be talking about this right now.
Housoft said:
Before I get boo'd off the stage, just hear me out.
I'm new to the whole cell phone modding scene as the EVO is the first nice phone I've ever had. When I get a new product, I'm the type of person that's going to customize it any way possible, even at the risk of breaking it (gotta love those high risk behaviors).
So my question is, what is the likelihood of seeing an unofficial WinMo7 flash for the EVO? Is this just way beyond the technical capabilities of anyone on the modding scene without access to internal specs? Are there any other phones that this type of thing has been done on to provide a frame of reference?
Don't get me wrong, I love Android and I've been very supportive of the products and developers on the marketplace. I'd just really like the option to flash WinMo7 if I wanted to.
And hey, at least I didn't say iOS4 right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chances are damn near nil. winmo7 is not open source, so there will be no code available to get the kernel up and running. no kernel --> no talky talky between software and hardware.
You have a better chance of being struck by lightening twice in the same spot.
MrDSL said:
You have a better chance of being struck by lightening twice in the same spot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or seeing WinMo 6.x on the EVO
timothydonohue said:
chances are damn near nil. winmo7 is not open source, so there will be no code available to get the kernel up and running. no kernel --> no talky talky between software and hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This confuses me... windows mobile 6.x isn't open source either, but people found all sorts of ways to mix and match hardware and software installs. Devices that stopped getting updated at WM5 ended up with user based ROMs for 6.0, 6.1 and 6.5 years later.
Thank you for the valid responses I'm just trying to wrap my head around the cell phone scene so the input was much appreciated.
To the others, well, thank you for trolling. Who woulda thought that a legitimate question located in the legitimate forum would be so ridiculously stupid, amirite?
ok i will be the first
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
there is the OS Licensing cost.
as i understand it, Android is free (more free beer than free speech but that's a different thread). Microsoft is not ever free.
hence, if you hack android you're a potential nerd...if you hack windows you're a potential criminal.
kinda the same reason we don't put the apple os on devices...it's closed source.
oh yeah...and then there is the most important question... why would you want to defile your EVO like that?
Junon said:
This confuses me... windows mobile 6.x isn't open source either, but people found all sorts of ways to mix and match hardware and software installs. Devices that stopped getting updated at WM5 ended up with user based ROMs for 6.0, 6.1 and 6.5 years later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interfacing an OS to hardware is all about drivers. On top of that, the software must be compiled with the correct instruction set for the CPU. This is why upgrading to a newer Win Mobile can be possible, but not Android to Win.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
SharkUW said:
Interfacing an OS to hardware is all about drivers. On top of that, the software must be compiled with the correct instruction set for the CPU. This is why upgrading to a newer Win Mobile can be possible, but not Android to Win.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not correct. WinMo7 is using ARM instructions just the same as WinMo6, WinMo5, 2003, Android, and everyone else unless you know something I don't.
Even further WinMo7 will most likely run on Snapdragon chips... so we can pull the necessary drivers from other systems.
The only thing that would be needed is either a haRET style bootloader but for WinMo or a dual bootloader that can load either WinMo7 or Android.
blammo,
if this thing works after the update then we are money bags.
from the article:
Here what Schapman wrote in the email…“My unlock method is similar to that of ChevronWP7 in the way they both use a fake registration server, but my method is different and more reliable. For example it automatically detects when a WP7 is plugged in and will check if this is a registered developer phone, if not it will register it once and for all, so the device will never re-lock like with ChevronWP7.”
AND
The developer obviously isn’t revealing too much about the new jailbreak app because he doesn’t want to risk Microsoft coming up with a fix in their upcoming Windows Phone 7 update so is holding off releasing the new jailbreak until after Microsoft release their OS update in February.
http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2011/01/23/new-jailbreak-for-windows-phone-7-imminent/
if this is true then i'm pretty sure MS will have it blocked. if it's similar process to ChevronWP7 at all, i'm sure MS blocked it.
that's why it's unreleased. MS won't know what to block till after the update.
the same guy that promised touchxperience for 8 months. I'm not holding my breath.
why r we still calling it "jailbreak"??
Dont we have a specific name yet? (like android's is called rooting)
abhinayp said:
why r we still calling it "jailbreak"??
Dont we have a specific name yet? (like android's is called rooting)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
specific name: unlock
Dev unlocking! Lol
Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
I like Dev Unlock...it is unique and not corny...
Lets make this thread into what to call Jailbreak/Rooting for Windows 7.
-UnCork
-Unbolt
-Unhook
-Unroll?
bah whatever lol
it most resembles "jailbreaking" an iPhone. "root" is an Android/Linux specific term. "unlocking" has usually referred to carrier unlocking the radio or baseband.
It's just semantics.
Some of you claim that "android fanboys just come in here talking noize" but are so offended that someone would use a similar term as used on an iPhone, a little hypocritical.
It's just semantics.
back on topic though: I really hope this dude is for real or there are going to be a lot of disappointed HD2 users for a while.
orangekid said:
it most resembles "jailbreaking" an iPhone. "root" is an Android/Linux specific term. "unlocking" has usually referred to carrier unlocking the radio or baseband.
It's just semantics.
Some of you claim that "android fanboys just come in here talking noize" but are so offended that someone would use a similar term as used on an iPhone, a little hypocritical.
It's just semantics.
back on topic though: I really hope this dude is for real or there are going to be a lot of disappointed HD2 users for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think anyone was offended. It looks to me like some people were light heartededly looking for a term that could be more specific for WP.
Reflexx1 said:
I don't think anyone was offended. It looks to me like some people were light heartededly looking for a term that could be more specific for WP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm, how about "WindOwned"?
WIPE (Windows Phone Enable(r))
WIPHE (as above) [Wiphe, Wiphed, Whiphed]
WIPHEN (ditto)
AppEnable
AOA (Allow Owner Access)
EOA (Enable Owner Access)
To reiterate what was already said, it's "dev unlock". It's different than iPhone jailbreaking... it's just unlocking a phone to have the functionality of a developer's device... developer unlocking or dev unlocking.
Yeah I could care less what they call it, as long as its possible to unlock/jailbreak/root the phone lol.
How bout that, we combine the first letter of those three words, J.U.R. lol.
orangekid said:
hmm, how about "WindOwned"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha. That one is pretty good. It gets my vote!
it has to be a term that makes sense when saying it... "i am jalibreaking my phone" "my phone is rooted" it also wont stick unless it has a reasonably identifiable term in it.
Jailbreak- has a illegal sense to it because Apple is vehemently against allowing filesystem access to the point of threatening legal action
Root- Simply gaining access to the root of the file system, no negative connotation
Microsoft is really feeling this out, but they do want to have control over it...
i like Liberate
theres also emancipate, declassify...
I know most people could care less but as long as you term it jailbreak or root it will be a stepchild to androids and iOS
Is "open" too vague? I just throw that out there because when I think, "Could you open the window?"
flipwalter76 said:
Jailbreak- has a illegal sense to it because Apple is vehemently against allowing filesystem access to the point of threatening legal action
Root- Simply gaining access to the root of the file system, no negative connotation
Microsoft is really feeling this out, but they do want to have control over it...
i like Liberate
theres also emancipate, declassify...
I know most people could care less but as long as you term it jailbreak or root it will be a stepchild to androids and iOS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for a household word "unlock" is probably the best, that's what we say when we flash HSLP on our WM devices anyways.
The first thing that came to mind for a name for rooting a Windows device was Windows Open.