Related
SPB Clone is a fine bit of software. It makes a full ghost copy of your BA that you can reinstall after a hard reset - all the registry settings, installed software. etc.
The demo version is fully working but after installing via a clone you get a nag screen that continually pops up to remind you to buy the software.
Because I was so impressed with SPB Clone, I wrote to SPB to ask them if they could provide me with a single user licence at a less painful price, since the PDA I was cloning was actually my phone, and I'm not a big company with many PDAs. They told me that, sadly, SPB Clone was only available on an enterprise licence but then they told me how to remove the nag screen....
1. Open the folder \Windows\StartUp in File Explorer.
2. Tap and Hold and select View All Files.
3. Select bootupdt.exe and select Cut from context menu.
4. Change to the root folder "\" and tap and hold on the empty space within folder view. Select Paste from context menu.
5. Soft reset.
6. Remove bootupdt.exe from the root folder.
And you were not able to find this out yourself?
Last year when I had my tires changed the clerk put a sign on my inner mirror to come back in 50km. And there was of course an ad on the sticker. Your post is like "Hey, today I opened my car and pulled the sticker of the mirror. You won't believe: I've got clear sight again!"
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
@tintoy: Generosity? I consider this being spam. Nobody wants new posts about "I now know how to reboot!" or "My how-to: Plugging USB cable in". I would accept those kinda posts if he'd just tell about product X, which is cheaper than Y but has same or more features like A, B, C. Only hassle you have to solve is to remove [filename] from autostart.
Chatty said:
And you were not able to find this out yourself?
Last year when I had my tires changed the clerk put a sign on my inner mirror to come back in 50km. And there was of course an ad on the sticker. Your post is like "Hey, today I opened my car and pulled the sticker of the mirror. You won't believe: I've got clear sight again!"
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Oh, well I'm terribly sorry that my lo-tech post offends your obviously tender, high-brow sensibilities.
God help you if someone with less knowledge than you asks you a question face-to-face; I'd imagine they'd deck you with an attitude like yours.
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful, although it's obviously far, far beneath someone who is clearly an IT deity. Please allow me to prostrate myself before you - in fact, I'm genuflecting before my monitor even now!
Mind you; your grammar, spelling and punctuation aren't up to much. If you're going to slight someone on a written forum, at least make sure you can write, eh?
tintoy said:
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
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I'm a firm believer in freedom of information.
SPB gave me this information because I am a single user.
I have provided this information to other single users.
If an unscrupulous company wishes to use unlicensed software, possibly risking prosecution, that's their remit, not mine.
madcapmagician said:
Oh, well I'm terribly sorry that my lo-tech post offends your obviously tender, high-brow sensibilities.
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Ok, your're starting to get insulting. That's why I'll answer the last time to this thread.
madcapmagician said:
God help you if someone with less knowledge than you asks you a question face-to-face; I'd imagine they'd deck you with an attitude like yours.
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This is not comparable because this is a forum, not a chat. Most questions can be answered by just searching the forum. And I was not against your post in whole but about the way you described it.
madcapmagician said:
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful, although it's obviously far, far beneath someone who is clearly an IT deity. Please allow me to prostrate myself before you - in fact, I'm genuflecting before my monitor even now!
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Farcical. No comment.
madcapmagician said:
Mind you; your grammar, spelling and punctuation aren't up to much. If you're going to slight someone on a written forum, at least make sure you can write, eh?
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Here you stepped over the line. If you ain't got no further arguments (if there has been at least one already) you start to insult people. That will make you look respectable, indeed. Although English is not my mother tongue I do speak more than one language. How many do you speak? (Not that I'm really interested.)
Chatty said:
Ok, your're starting to get insulting.
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Your original post was both rude and insulting, hence my reply.
This is not comparable because this is a forum, not a chat.
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How so? Do you not bring your manners to a forum? You are, in effect, saying that because you cannot see your fellow forumers face-to-face you feel you do not have to be polite to them.....and you then get upset when they are impolite back to you.
Most questions can be answered by just searching the forum.
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Why do you assume I didn't? Again, you are being insulting. I scoured the web to find the answer, like most other noobs would do. From the way you wrote, I got the impression you are very IT-literate - well, I am not and there are many others like me. My post is for them.
And I was not against your post in whole but about the way you described it.
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Then I suggest you re-read your first post: in your head, when you typed it, it may have sounded witty and polite and to-the-point; that is not how it came across. If you felt my description was at fault, you should have said so, rather than making rude, tangential comments.
madcapmagician said:
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful
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Just to reiterate the point.
Here you stepped over the line.
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Agreed, although in my head, when I typed it, it was quid pro quo.
I will publicly apologise here and now for being rude.
Please understand that there is nothing berating in this post - I am merely trying to articulate myself without you being able to physically hear my voice.
madcapmagician said:
Hey guys, I know a way that you can get the hard work of dozens of developers for free. Heck they gave it to me, and so it is implied that they want me to share it with the entire internet. Aren't I morally and ethically bankrupt?
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Yes, you are.
Chatty said:
There is this tire change sticker in my car that is driving me batty
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Hmmm, interesting
tintoy said:
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
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Chatty said:
Generosity? Huh...spam. X, Y, uh A, B, C, Marco, polo
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Exsqueezeme
madcapmagician said:
Everyone marvel at my use of polysyllabic word play. I am the master of the keyboard. Chatty, my swing thing is bigger than yours.
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madcapmagician again said:
I am a firm believer in freedom of unscrupulousness. It was granted to us in the 18th ammendment to the Constitution. SPB gave me the information because I am single minded and they have no desire to make money. They are actually just out to provide a community service.
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Wow, excellent points, all of them!
Chatty Cathy said:
Actually my swing thing is bigger. And I speak multiple languages, just not very well. A donde esta la casa de pepe?
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Stunning!
madcapmagician said:
Why are you rude to me just because I was rude to you? Don't you understand the consequences of disturbing the molecular dismobilization of the antisymmetric wave function? Egad man. Let me cut loose some more words from my Microsoft Word thesaurus...prostrate, genuflecting, forumers (huh?), tangential, exoskeletal, plebiscite. Take that!
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Do you guys know how tired the rest of us are of this kind of non-productive grade school banter? I am waiting for the "your momma" insults to start any minute. Can someone please delete this thread.
The original post in this thread was a useful piece of information on how to remove the nag screen on a piece of software.
It was not a "How-to" on rebooting or plugging in a USB cable, and i am sure that anyone who wants to use the SPB Clone would be grateful for this information.
The fact that you either didnt understand what the post was about or didnt care doesnt mean you have to immediately flame the poster, if you have no use for the information in a certain thread just move on to the next thread. Trading insults back and forth is the biggest spam anyone could expect to see in a forum, especially this one, which provides so much good information to those of us who use these devices.
I continue to be floored by people's casual attitude toward trading software keys, hacking apps, and getting around nag screens. If the developer did not want you to see the nag screen then he/she WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT THERE. If the developer gave instructions to one user on how to remove the nag, then great...what a nice developer/company. But unless they expressly gave that person permission to post it out to potentially thousands of people then it is JUST PLAIN WRONG. There is no gray area here, folks. Most of us have to live in a grown-up world and are tired of the impacts that other people's adolescent, situational ethics imposes on us. Do unto others...
cw6447 said:
I continue to be floored by people's casual attitude toward trading software keys, hacking apps, and getting around nag screens. If the developer did not want you to see the nag screen then he/she WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT THERE. If the developer gave instructions to one user on how to remove the nag, then great...what a nice developer/company. But unless they expressly gave that person permission to post it out to potentially thousands of people then it is JUST PLAIN WRONG. There is no gray area here, folks. Most of us have to live in a grown-up world and are tired of the impacts that other people's adolescent, situational ethics imposes on us. Do unto others...
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I agree with you on the ethics of "stealing" software, my main complaint here was the instant flaming that madcapmagician received after posting, that is not what this community is about. he was not posting a "how-to" on the process of rebooting, he was relaying the information given to him as he received it, i think that the information can be used by those who are ok with "stealing" software and those who disagree can just disregard the information. If the mods decide that the information shouldnt be here they have the power to remove it.
Forgive me for carrying on with this ridiculous and pointless conversation but is it not in fact illegal to unlock contract mobile phones? Would the cellular providers be happy for 1000's of people to remove their branding and software from devices which they have sold? If the software company had not wanted to help the individual then they would not have told him to start with. I am sure that nobody is so special that a software company would whisper information into his ear that they didn't want to be made common knowledge.
This is a tech support forum, it has helped me as well as many, many other people. If you want to start talking about wrong, immoral, illegal or any other description you may have then start looking at what other people are doing.
I appreciate this forum, and it's members. For crying out loud, stop arguing and get on with the job in hand.
Zylo, I agree with you in one regard. The post is perfectly legit insomuch as it is helpful and technically related. But only for people without a conscience. Bret, you are symptomatic of this new generation of kids with no personal accountability in life. To pretend that you can guess that a software company doesn't mind you giving away their software for free is ludicrous. madcap probably got ahold of some sales guy who thought it would be nice to do him a favor. Do you think the owners, investors or developers would have told him to feel free to post it on forums around the internet? Why not take that info and sell it for a profit on eBay? Or better yet why not just sell the software as your own? If they were giving you a free copy then they wouldn't mind you doing whatever you want with it. Right? You see, you keep blurring the lines of common decency to the point where eventually anything goes. You won't understand until someday you actually become a responsible citizen, start your own business, and put your hard-earned money and time out on the line. I bet when the leeches and thieves come after your product you will have a whole different attitude. The "right thing" to do in this case is so easy and obvious. I fear for a world where people can't make that distinction.
Sorry if what i said came across as a flaming. It was not intended as such. I'm just aware that softweare companies have many employees, from designers to developers to marketing people to managers. Of all these people the ones who seeme to have the most alturistitc (read non commercially-minded) approach always seem to be the developers. They are typically just concerned with writing good software and makng it work. If you asked a developer for a free copy of his/her software for 'testing' they'd probally give it to you without complaint! If, however, you asked them if they'd like their contract to end at the end of its term becuase you were going to make the software they wrote completly unprofitable by telling everyone how to get it for free they might be slightly less generous!
Your points have been taken on board but for the record, I work for a small, local mobile phone dealer. How much business do you think we lose from people unlocking phones, and therefore not returning to us?
I'm not saying that is right or wrong but what I am saying is that it is illegal. It is stealing from the provider and taking profits away from independant dealers. Also, how are you to know that my own business did not fail due to non-payers? You obviously open your mouth before engaging your brain. I could not recover the debts owed to my company and it resulted in the business closing. Is that not also theft?
If you want to target anyone go for the real criminals who sell ripped off software and DVD's on the Sunday markets. They are the real problem, not one guy who has made a very small post who has admitted to have lttle understanding of what he has done. I'm sure you have now all alienated him so he will never return to this site again.
Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.
Yeah. Can we consider this conversation over?
Please don't be offended by my posts @madcapmagician, I was just making a point, not trying to demonise you! I would imagine there is even a fairly decent discsussion that could be had about what consitutes ripping off software and what consitutes fair use...
I found my original e-mail and SPB’s reply:
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerzy Bulowski
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:01 pm
To: [email protected]
Subject: Clone
Dear Sir or Madam,
I recently downloaded your demo of Clone and have to say that, already, it has served me well after my phone required a hard reset the other day.
I was so impressed that I decided to purchase a copy but was absolutely horrified to see the price of $199. Whilst I can appreciate that Clone is suited to large businesses with many corporate PDAs, I am a single user - the PDA in question is actually my HTC Blue Angel mobile phone - and I was wondering whether you could sell me a single-licence version for a price more similar to what you charge for Pocket Plus?
If this is not possible could you tell me how long the annoying reminder screen will continue to pop up on my phone?
I look forward to your reply.
Regards,
Jerzy Bulowski
Hello Jerzy,
Spb Clone is enterprise product and there's not any "single user" licenses.
How to remove the nag screen in your case:
1. Open folder \Windows\StartUp in File Explorer. 2. Tap and Hold and select View All files. 3. Select bootupd.exe and select Cut from context menu. 4. Change to the root folder "\" and tap-n-hold on the empty space within folder view. Select "Paste" from context menu. 5. Soft reset. 6. Remove bootupd.exe from the root folder.
Best regards,
Alexander Shalin
Customer Support Team
Spb Software House
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.spbsoftwarehouse.com
Phone: +7 812 324 49 44
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Bret, perhaps I should point out that you can download SPB Clone for free from their website, as a demo version. Corporate customers, if they liked it, would then buy a licensed copy for $199.00 – I have “stolen” nothing.
Chris - As far as the ethics of posting said information in the public domain are concerned, my conscience is clear. This information is for single users, like myself. If an unscrupulous company wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine.
Tintoy – I’m not offended. It was Chatty’s immediate, condescending, demeaning post that riled me. Zylograth said what I should have, instead of replying as I did:
The fact that you either didn’t understand what the post was about or didn’t care doesn’t mean you have to immediately flame the poster, if you have no use for the information in a certain thread just move on to the next thread.
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And that’s that!
AFAIK I think it's still open to debate whether we discuss cracking. I'm happy to talk about cracking, but not cracks.
Odeean makes a good point that cracking and reversing is part of the education of programming; if you're a commercial developer, or would be one, it's worth knowing weaknesses and pitfalls.
People shouldn't come on here and say "wantttt - crack for thai-g" etc. That's just silly and damn lazy. If you don't know how to get warez, you should be using a Motorola, not even a Nokia. But you should be rewarding programmers, or you should understand when there aren't programmers left to program because they've all gone broke. (And I'm not just talking about cash.. we don't all program for the $$)
But if you want to learn how to crack thai-g, search, ask nicely, or learn and tell. But don't distribute cracks (at least publically). There are other boards for that, and we have enough trouble keeping this board clean enough now-a-days
V
Take it like a man!
Madcap, my almost 3-year old daughter tries to make equally bad logic when I have caught her sneaking a cookie before supper. If you were in court you would be your own worst enemy. The email from spb said "How to remove the nag screen in YOUR case". Not "in your case and EVERY other person you can broadcast it to". Show me where he added, "And please feel free to share this with other single users". ONCE AGAIN, if they did not expressly permit you to give this to other people then it is just plain wrong! No, not illegal...it's the spb CSR's ignorant fault for giving it out to you. Let's say you are standing behind a guy in line at the QuickTrip. You witness the cashier ring up his order, but forget to ring up his Snickers bar. When the customer makes the cashier aware of the error, the cashier says,"Oh that's ok, just go ahead and take it." Does that then give you the right to grab a Snickers bar and put it in your pocket without paying for it? If one person got a freebie then everyone should get it, right? How long do you think QuickTrip will survive giving away it's products? It really isn't any different. Software is intangible property that should be treated as tangible. Just because you can get away with it doesn't mean you should. It is just like all of the thieves who thought downloading music they did not pay for was OK. It wasn't...still isn't...never will be.
As for your equally weak argument of, "If an unscrupulous company wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine." Let's take the same QuickTrip. While you are at the counter paying for your snacks (except for the Snickers bar tucked into your pocket), you oversee another employee opening the safe behind the counter. Because of your excellent eyesight and brilliant mind, you see and remember the combination. When you get home you go out to the SafesAndVaultsDevelopers.com forums and post about the dummy at QuickTrip opening up the safe right in front of everyone. You also post the combination to the safe because "if an unscrupulous person wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine." Great logic. I wish I could send you to time-out like I can my daughter.
Try this. Reply back to spb. Tell that same Customer Service Rep that you are posting this hack on all of the popular PDA sites on the internet. And copy the support group at spb, too. After they respond to you, post their letter back here. I will be waiting to see the response.
Now I know you would never have posted the above spb info on a site where you thought "unscrupulous" people could visit and get hold of it. I mean, what jerk in their right mind would do that to a company and possibly expose them to real dollar losses? So since you know everyone here is trustworthy, why don't you go ahead and post your email account password, your xda forum password, and the PIN to your ATM account on here. Throw in your momma's phone number for grins. We won't do anything bad with it.
Am I going off on you? Yes. When someone tries to make a clearly black and white argument grey, and aggressively attempts to defend that indefensible position over and again, they deserve to be called out. Take it like a man.
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
Some people take these things a little too seriously. If you don't like the phone, get another phone. Complaining here won't solve anything since we aren't the developers and Microsoft does what they think is best.
Arguing whether an os needs dual-core or not is pretty much irrelevant since neither you nor I can do jack **** about it.
Peew971 said:
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
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+1000 to this...
well said....just mentioned all the things I want to say....
pillsburydoughman said:
Some people take these things a little too seriously. If you don't like the phone, get another phone. Complaining here won't solve anything since we aren't the developers and Microsoft does what they think is best.
Arguing whether an os needs dual-core or not is pretty much irrelevant since neither you nor I can do jack **** about it.
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You missed the OP's point. Totally.
The customer is king. If customers demand x, y or z, then it is an extremely stupid manufacturer who doesn't provide it. Ergo, if 'we' want dual core (which MS has already said is coming in 2012), we better damned well get it. Or else MS will pay the price.
WP users who are resistant to change are nothing more than luddites, living in a state of perpetual denial. The same kind of morons who used to believe the earth was flat (and probably still do). It is the innovators and users who are keen to work with MS to develop the best product possible which will yield the most dividend.
The other users? Those who want to keep the status quo? Yes, it is people as the OP described who are WP's biggest problem. You are the ones who stifle innovation. You are the ones who will help slowly drive WP into the dust.
Do us all a favour and just post nothing if you don't want to see change. You will not be missed.
And you missed my point entirely. Arguing with other customers whether change is need is pointless. If you want get the point across go to the microsoft forums and give your feedback directly to them.
What we have here is people who are not happy with windows phone arguing with others who are happy with it. If you dislike it give your feedback directly to Microsoft, not us.
Wow, Thats quite a rant. Personally I like android and ios (though this is so overpriced dont get me started as with all things apple) BUT I love WP7 and i am not ashamed to defend it esp when things like specs get compared. The reason we get ansi when you talk duel core is because its argued like android and ios have it so they must instantly run better when the reality is they dont and it makes little effect but drain the batter. However if we say this in reply we are being antagonistic and argumentative when in reality its just a fact duel core is not needed and kills batterys. That is just one example i will give as you did go on. I will say this though I am all for suggestions but dont blame us for being protective when Android fanbois come in here just to slate it.
pillsburydoughman said:
And you missed my point entirely. Arguing with other customers whether change is need is pointless. If you want get the point across go to the microsoft forums and give your feedback directly to them.
What we have here is people who are not happy with windows phone arguing with others who are happy with it. If you dislike it give your feedback directly to Microsoft, not us.
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What?
Re-read the OP and try and understand what is being said in this thread.
nobnut said:
What?
Re-read the OP and try and understand what is being said in this thread.
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seems you don't understand what the post is about.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
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you can criticize, but at some point if that's all you are doing maybe you should reevaluate why you are still here.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it.
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You want dual core. I don't think it needs it. We can argue all day, in the end if it bother's you that much take your complaints to Microsoft.
Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
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All I see is someone who wants to rant and complain and criticize in every post. Then you turn around and call it one of the worst places on the internet. Look in that mirror buddy.
Bless you. I can see you are trying.
By the way, can you please edit your last post to credit those statements to the right users. You have demonstrated your inability to understand the English language. At least try and attribute the correct quotes to the correct users so that others don't become as confused as you clearly are.
I'm glad that shut you up. seeing how you have nothing relevant to add
In a thread started about how pathetic the arguing is on here... it only takes half a page for it to start...
OP, you have no idea what the difference between "criticism" and "relentless whining and *****ing" is; 99% of your posts fall in the latter category. Everything to you is FAIL, or useless, or MS/Nokia/insert WP manufacturer here is stupid and they don't know what they are doing according to you.
This is a DISCUSSION forum about WP7, not the complaint counter. You bring extremely little to every discussion in this forum that you enter, as you constantly focus on issues that YOU seem to see as negative and if anyone dare disagrees with you, then they are braindead sheep that are protecting Microsoft.
Your shtick has gotten old, really fast. It's pretty obvious that you have a severe case of buyer's remorse, so I strongly suggest you bite the bullet, sell your WP7 handset at a loss and get into a different mobile OS and chalk this up as a learning experience. Don't bother saying that you actually like WP7 but want to see blah, blah, blah because YOU DO NOTHING BUT COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. If you even were around a 50/50 ratio as far as complimentary or insightful posts to your complaining posts, one MIGHT be able to believe that you do have some affection for WP7 somewhere.
But you don't come anywhere close to 50/50. You almost exclusively complain about WP7, so it really truly begs the question:
WHY DO YOU EVEN OWN A WP7 PHONE AND WHY WOULD YOU CONTINUE TO DO SO?
actually, i don't have much to complain about wp7, except that the notification system is a little lacking. whatsapp told me i have 25 incoming messages, when i checked it, i noticed that the timestamp of the messages was listed to be 1 hour ago
i don't know how to explain it properly, but an example would be i received the messages at 10pm, but timestamp of the messages were 9pm
other than that...i got no real big complaints. oh, and the batt indicator.
Peew971 said:
in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personal opinion. I am exactly at middleground and will be until something is released to give me more interest. I love my pc. Dualbooting betwen ubuntu, windows 7 and windows 8. However, this isn't a pc. Its a smartphone, and its just that. You seem to be wanting more out of this device, which Im not sure what that might be? Its fast. Never laggy. Theres times where I wish I had an android so i could customize the ???? out of it to my preference, but thats not windows phone 7 is all about. As the commericals say, spend less time on your phone, and more time doing what you want/love/whatever. I am a 17 year old who is looking to constantly learn more about anything electronic. My HTC Surround? It has problems, well more like issues that cant be fixed at the moment. From time to time it will have networking problems, headphone problems and even screen lockups when connecting to a charging cord. However, thats nothing different from the issues of other android cellphones I had. To be honest here though. I love it 50% and hate it 50%. Something as small as transparent live tiles and a custom picture background; will in fact make me love this little piece of heaven. But! thats just me.
So to end what i've said, It is an amazing OS aswell as amazing devices that get shipped with it. I just don't think people are ready to accept it and move on from the traditional windows mobile 6.5, android, and dare I say it... that iphone crap.
Its great, it really is. But if you don't like it, problem solved dont use it.
blanket said:
actually, i don't have much to complain about wp7, except that the notification system is a little lacking. whatsapp told me i have 25 incoming messages, when i checked it, i noticed that the timestamp of the messages was listed to be 1 hour ago
i don't know how to explain it properly, but an example would be i received the messages at 10pm, but timestamp of the messages were 9pm
other than that...i got no real big complaints. oh, and the batt indicator.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same, even though push notifications seem to be near instant for me since Mango came along. Battery indicator seems to be troubling every now and then, but pulling it out and recharging it a few times works for me.
I honestly don't get why people complain about it. If you don't like it, don't get it. Simple as that.
If you don't like your cheeseburger with cheese, don't complain that it has cheese and get a regular burger.
I got a WP7 because I wanted to try something different. I ended up loving it.
But that is just me...
Peew971 said:
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would suggest it's people like yourself, that seem to care too much about a gadget, that are the problem.
I don't post all that much but to speak like this forum is somehow different than the other 10000000 forums in the world on different subjects from real cars to gaming systems to political discussions, etc...
I think some just get too excited because they can hide behind their computer...
Seriously, it's a gadget.
I love WP7...I've had them all. It works for me. If it doesn't work for you, why bother posting in these forums?
I personally don't like Android...I occasionally read the forums but rarely if ever post in them.
Anyway...to each his/her own....
SR1738NX said:
Personal opinion. I am exactly at middleground and will be until something is released to give me more interest. I love my pc. Dualbooting betwen ubuntu, windows 7 and windows 8. However, this isn't a pc. Its a smartphone, and its just that. You seem to be wanting more out of this device, which Im not sure what that might be? Its fast. Never laggy. Theres times where I wish I had an android so i could customize the ???? out of it to my preference, but thats not windows phone 7 is all about. As the commericals say, spend less time on your phone, and more time doing what you want/love/whatever. I am a 17 year old who is looking to constantly learn more about anything electronic. My HTC Surround? It has problems, well more like issues that cant be fixed at the moment. From time to time it will have networking problems, headphone problems and even screen lockups when connecting to a charging cord. However, thats nothing different from the issues of other android cellphones I had. To be honest here though. I love it 50% and hate it 50%. Something as small as transparent live tiles and a custom picture background; will in fact make me love this little piece of heaven. But! thats just me.
So to end what i've said, It is an amazing OS aswell as amazing devices that get shipped with it. I just don't think people are ready to accept it and move on from the traditional windows mobile 6.5, android, and dare I say it... that iphone crap.
Its great, it really is. But if you don't like it, problem solved dont use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i do like the OS too. initially, i found it a little constricting in comparison with wm, but realistically speaking, wm is, like what is, a pc in your pocket
wp7, like it's name says, is a phone. i now spend more time in weaver, in pocket ie or reading my pdf files, or simply doing simple work on my 7 pro
and no, i won't touch android with a 10 foot pole. 1 thing wm taught me is that fragmentation is a *****. android will feel it soon. i'm impartial towards ios, but there's no keyboard. thats a deal breaker for me.
in summary, with wp7, i feel that i'm using a phone instead of a pc like wm was before. it was fun with wm though
---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------
Mr_Waffle said:
Same, even though push notifications seem to be near instant for me since Mango came along. Battery indicator seems to be troubling every now and then, but pulling it out and recharging it a few times works for me.
I honestly don't get why people complain about it. If you don't like it, don't get it. Simple as that.
If you don't like your cheeseburger with cheese, don't complain that it has cheese and get a regular burger.
I got a WP7 because I wanted to try something different. I ended up loving it.
But that is just me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wonder who is responsible for the lagging notifications. whatsapp? or ms?
cgibsong002 said:
In a thread started about how pathetic the arguing is on here... it only takes half a page for it to start...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, it really is getting hopeless.
In my case I love WP7 because it suits me best of them all. But there are definitely things I just want out of my sight: US-only services for example. That is maybe the main reason why WP is being hindered to flourish. Or Nokia doing exclusive things with EA. What is the point of doing that? It produces fragmentation which is absolutely poisonous for WP7 in it's current position.
morpheuszg said:
Yep, it really is getting hopeless.
In my case I love WP7 because it suits me best of them all. But there are definitely things I just want out of my sight: US-only services for example. That is maybe the main reason why WP is being hindered to flourish. Or Nokia doing exclusive things with EA. What is the point of doing that? It produces fragmentation which is absolutely poisonous for WP7 in it's current position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im sorry, does the HTC dock produce fragmentation? Just because Nokia provides a higher quality of software services they are held to a different standard? I'm sorry Nokia has faith in this platform... O-0
I think XDA is a great place to come together as people who chose WP7 for whatever reason and plan to stick with with it. It shouldn't be the place to criticize and complain and moan and belittle the ones who love their phone.
How about we share tricks and tips? How about workarounds to some limiting feature. For the ones that are adept at coding, how about we crack open wp7 and make it better? Many of these things already exist thankfully as I can now take screenshots, put apps in folders and even video chat with my HD7. Thats what this forum is for, a community for supporters of the platform to enrich each other's experiences.
It shouldn't be a war of words, specs and features. I think if you're not satisfied with how wp7 works
a. sell your phone and recoup some of the cost
b. adopt another platform that satisfies your needs AND/OR
c. visit the official windows phone suggestion forum and vote on the features you wish to see implemented. That there is the correct venue for your discontent.
OMG. I unlocked and rooted my Lollipop M8 today, but i only see Sunshine for making S-OFF, and it isnt free. Another way to get S-OFF one m8?
Man WTF the 25$?! I can live 5 days with 25$, so bull****.
And if there's no way, what i lose stuck on S-ON? I have international M8.
*sigh*
No, Sunshine is the only way
turko9999 said:
OMG. I unlocked and rooted my Lollipop M8 today, but i only see Sunshine for making S-OFF, and it isnt free. Another way to get S-OFF one m8?
Man WTF the 25$?! I can live 5 days with 25$, so bull****.
And if there's no way, what i lose stuck on S-ON? I have international M8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
$25 is nothing compared to how much it cost the creators of sunshine, they destroyed loads of phones whist creating sunshine, obviously you need to test it before you release it to the public, and in the beginning it didn't always work, each phone at $500+ a pop isn't cheap, and they didn't all survive testing, so $25 is nothing.
You loose the ability to back flash, convert your phone to another version, jump around with firmware, s-on allows only current firmware flash and next step up, HBOOT flashing, modified firmware flashes, radio flashing, CID and MID changes, all sorts, I cant live without s-off myself.
you can pretty much rest assured that now you've rooted and possibly flashed a custom recovery, unlocked and flashed a custom rom, you've lost the ability to get any further updates from HTC, unless there is an RUU about for your phone to return it to full stock condition, it possible with s-on, but can be a nightmare.
Before you do anything with your phone, first learn how to fix it.
Sell the device for 500, and live for another 100 days
But thats of course not how we should see it !? Weird world we live in.........
Seanie280672 said:
you can pretty much rest assured that now you've rooted and possibly flashed a custom recovery, unlocked and flashed a custom rom, you've lost the ability to get any further updates from HTC, unless there is an RUU about for your phone to return it to full stock condition, it possible with s-on, but can be a nightmare.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Disagree for a bit on this, there are many stock backups here in the M8 forum. The general section has a topic about that stickied and there is also a thread here in the Q&A section that holds lots of them.
Even the owners own stock backup is more than enough. Restore the stock nandroid and flash the stock recovery from the new ota, apply the update and voila.....stock updated. I'm not sure why many people always want to rely on RUU's ?
haha, the only reason I needed S off was to sim unlock...was way too easy to just Call T-mobile and get my code!!!
I can't believe threads like this are getting closed left and right on XDA. I think Sunshine charging $25 is a very important topic to discuss on XDA, and there should be a proper place to discuss it.
I have seen root-ninja say he is willing to PM people his expenses to S-Off which were in the few thousands. So what... the number of people that have S-Offed is multiple hundreds easy if not 1000's, and he is making $25 off each of them. That means he has earned his money back and a few years worth of salary on top of that, all for 1 weeks work and a $2000 investment. Great for him, as an individual developer I am happy to see him get some cash. I wish he would realize how he is severely hurting/violating the spirit of hacking.
This is software, hacking software. It should be free and open-source with a donation link. This is a place of learning, so please, teach how it was done. If more devs go down this road it will be very sad for XDA and the entire phone-hacking scene. Less devs will learn, all things will be kept secret and cost money, instead of turning to XDA because we cannot trust carriers and mfgs, we will not be able to trust XDA.
Sad days ahead if we don't as a group complain, boycott, and chastise this sort of bad behavior.
PS: Is anyone at all concerned about the list of permissions the app uses. Sure it is "needed" for hacking, but what else could it be used for???
if i could pay the twenty five dollars i would....
im 16
i dont have a credit card and my parents aren't exactly the most willing to allow me to use twenty five dollars on sunshine.....
im pretty sure the devs who worked on sunshine have got their money back and more...
this is a great place of learning. it hurts when some of us cant do anything about this.
its been a year since ive been hoping they drop the payment or they add a free method for s-off.
so far none.
this only slows down dev work and hurts dev culture
leaving things open source would help everyone.....
secrets have their costs......
Just think about what happens when they stop the development on s-off, i dont think anybody else comes along and get it done for free. Because there is still up till now no other dev who dared to gain s-off.
Nobody ever complained when s-off was free ...... of course not it was FREE ! But now they ask for a price. Yes for some a big amount. But people who complain about that should not even think about s-off. S-off is not even needed to flash custom roms or run custom kernels.
And then the complaint about the 2000 investment , also nonsense because they messed up many devices. Not only the M8 ! Think about that before saying things like that. The team behind s-off goes many years back already. I frankly doubt that a year salary would make up for it !!!
And the rights and permissions s-off needs.....if you are scared or worried ? DON'T USE IT
Nobody is forcing anybody to use it. Stay safe.....stay stock
This all has nothing to do with xda, xda has no rights whatsoever on s-off + the involved development
Take it or leave it ! Right @beaups !!!
rpmccormick said:
I can't believe threads like this are getting closed left and right on XDA. I think Sunshine charging $25 is a very important topic to discuss on XDA, and there should be a proper place to discuss it.
I have seen root-ninja say he is willing to PM people his expenses to S-Off which were in the few thousands. So what... the number of people that have S-Offed is multiple hundreds easy if not 1000's, and he is making $25 off each of them. That means he has earned his money back and a few years worth of salary on top of that, all for 1 weeks work and a $2000 investment. Great for him, as an individual developer I am happy to see him get some cash. I wish he would realize how he is severely hurting/violating the spirit of hacking.
This is software, hacking software. It should be free and open-source with a donation link. This is a place of learning, so please, teach how it was done. If more devs go down this road it will be very sad for XDA and the entire phone-hacking scene. Less devs will learn, all things will be kept secret and cost money, instead of turning to XDA because we cannot trust carriers and mfgs, we will not be able to trust XDA.
Sad days ahead if we don't as a group complain, boycott, and chastise this sort of bad behavior.
PS: Is anyone at all concerned about the list of permissions the app uses. Sure it is "needed" for hacking, but what else could it be used for???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.) Permissions are declared for fun, and as a learning experience for users. For you, as a "developer", you should know that as a root exploit we can get whatever permissions we want without declarations.
2.) We've covered the costs and our pricing strategy time and time again. If you think the price is unfair, don't buy it. If you think it should be free, and everything on XDA should be free, then spend the time yourself and develop another solution, and then provide it and support it for free. It should only take you a week, right?
These things take a lot of time, and money. a LOT of time. How many unlocks are being released for other devices lately? Where can I paid or free Samsung bootloader unlock on a blocked device? How about Motorola? LG? Sony?.....
The simple fact is this: f we weren't able to charge for SunShine, we would not have been able to dedicate the resources to develop it., and you'd have no s-off today.
Sorry no, you are telling half truths, and flat out lies. I have no idea why you would do this.
No, I offered to let someone take over the financial responsibility and re-release for free, I didn't offer to PM expenses of a "few thousands". Few thousand is what was spent in the first week of April. Few weeks? SunShine has been in development for well over a year .Few years of salary, your kidding.
Taking your word that you are a developer, you should know very well something like this doesn't magically appear in one week. As a developer, you are well aware that a root app does not need to really declare any permissions. I could add them on the fly, I mean the app is running as root. So why all the permissions, just to raise awareness of permissions. Do you want me to remove all permissions and just add them on the fly without alerting you? Its a pretty trivial thing to do, and you would never know.
We are far from the only ones doing this, we are just the cheapest, and safest, yet we are the only ones attacked over it.
Offer still stands, commit to taking over full financial requirements of our development, and we can re-release for free.
rpmccormick said:
I can't believe threads like this are getting closed left and right on XDA. I think Sunshine charging $25 is a very important topic to discuss on XDA, and there should be a proper place to discuss it.
I have seen root-ninja say he is willing to PM people his expenses to S-Off which were in the few thousands. So what... the number of people that have S-Offed is multiple hundreds easy if not 1000's, and he is making $25 off each of them. That means he has earned his money back and a few years worth of salary on top of that, all for 1 weeks work and a $2000 investment. Great for him, as an individual developer I am happy to see him get some cash. I wish he would realize how he is severely hurting/violating the spirit of hacking.
This is software, hacking software. It should be free and open-source with a donation link. This is a place of learning, so please, teach how it was done. If more devs go down this road it will be very sad for XDA and the entire phone-hacking scene. Less devs will learn, all things will be kept secret and cost money, instead of turning to XDA because we cannot trust carriers and mfgs, we will not be able to trust XDA.
Sad days ahead if we don't as a group complain, boycott, and chastise this sort of bad behavior.
PS: Is anyone at all concerned about the list of permissions the app uses. Sure it is "needed" for hacking, but what else could it be used for???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am coming from the perspective of M9, not M8... I posted here because the M9 thread was closed.
You said yourself you bought 4 M9's and I thought you said you had S-Off in a week, no? I am a dev, hardware and software, but not a super-star like you, and though I truly believe I could get S-off, it would probably take me a year of my life that I cannot devote.
I have great respect for you man, and for the XDA community at large. The core of me truly believes that forcing a charge on modders is wrong. Well, if you want to charge for your do it all for you app that is not wrong, but you should also post clear instructions on what your app does so that others could easily do the same, themselves, for free. Knowledge should be free. You are hoarding your knowledge in order to increase profits for your app. I do not mean to offend, just to share my opinion, which is that your tactics are immoral. Please take that statement with a grain of salt, as I do not mean to offend, I am sure you do not believe they are immoral, and I also believe that paying for any form of Knowledge or Art is immoral. I do realize I am in the minority there.
EDIT: Are there others doing it for more money? Who? Do you really just make enough to keep up with your dev-expenses? or if 1% of the people that paid donated, would that cover your dev expenses and the other 99% is just cash on top? Maybe my scales-of-economy are way off here, but it seems to me by the number of people with S-Offed M8's and M9's, that you should be rolling in it at $25/head, no?
rpmccormick said:
I am coming from the perspective of M9, not M8... I posted here because the M9 thread was closed.
You said yourself you bought 4 M9's and I thought you said you had S-Off in a week, no? I am a dev, hardware and software, but not a super-star like you, and though I truly believe I could get S-off, it would probably take me a year of my life that I cannot devote.
I have great respect for you man, and for the XDA community at large. The core of me truly believes that forcing a charge on modders is wrong. Well, if you want to charge for your do it all for you app that is not wrong, but you should also post clear instructions on what your app does so that others could easily do the same, themselves, for free. Knowledge should be free. You are hoarding your knowledge in order to increase profits for your app. I do not mean to offend, just to share my opinion, which is that your tactics are immoral. Please take that statement with a grain of salt, as I do not mean to offend, I am sure you do not believe they are immoral, and I also believe that paying for any form of Knowledge or Art is immoral. I do realize I am in the minority there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It took 24hours once the device was in hand, that doesn't mean we didnt buy other ARM64 devices over the last year, nor that we haven't spent months learning the architecture, nor changes in Android 5.x, nor writing new tools.
We don't force a charge, nor do we hold a monopoly on the subject, yet we are the only ones facing personal attacks for it.
Knowledge does not come to us for free, we invest heavily into gaining that knowledge. I do find it ironic that you are lecturing me on this, considering I have open sourced more Android exploits than any other person, and that I've posted my training material (from a $3500 per person session) for free online. Why should I have to pay for all these things, but you shouldn't? This kind of attitude and attack makes me regret contributing as much as I have, and still do.
Please don't regret, I am trying to have a discussion, not attack you. I have great respect for you.
EDIT: Great point on root apps and permissions. I am a sheep like the rest of them, I take risks and I even paid you against my own morals, but honestly the entire community needs to change their way of thinking... no one should ever run any root app that is not open source.
PS: I have open-sourced much in my life as well, but I am sure not half as much, as good, or as important as you have. I truly do not mean to disrespect you, just change the way the community thinks about ALL non-OS things.
PPS: It is mfgs/big4 that are immoral by not giving us all the option to S-Off, to carrier unlock, to flash a non-branded RUU, and to change the HBOOT logo. You are our greatest soldiers against their oppression. Keep up the good work, and make it easy for others to learn how to do the same. Thank you.
jcase said:
It took 24hours once the device was in hand, that doesn't mean we didnt buy other ARM64 devices over the last year, nor that we haven't spent months learning the architecture, nor changes in Android 5.x, nor writing new tools.
We don't force a charge, nor do we hold a monopoly on the subject, yet we are the only ones facing personal attacks for it.
Knowledge does not come to us for free, we invest heavily into gaining that knowledge. I do find it ironic that you are lecturing me on this, considering I have open sourced more Android exploits than any other person, and that I've posted my training material (from a $3500 per person session) for free online. Why should I have to pay for all these things, but you shouldn't? This kind of attitude and attack makes me regret contributing as much as I have, and still do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jcase, don't listen to the haters. Everyone in the world thinks they are entitled to everything. If they can't afford it then they should either work harder so they can afford it or find their own way. I say congrats for coming up with a niche product and making some money on it. This world would be a better place if people spent less time complaining and more time working hard to make a better life for them and their families.
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Free mobile app
I really wish people would knock it off with this mess. There are few phones left that can be made truly open, and it's only because of Sunshine that the HTC One M7/8/9 phones are on that list. What do people want? No phones that can be turned into developer phones?
Seriously guys, the next time you are thinking of whining about $25, consider that for many phones, there is no solution. Want to do anything more than root a Samsung Galaxy S6? Good luck with that.
Maybe we need to add a section with pricing for JTAG services or S-off SD-cards. I recall for a while there was a pool of people who went in to buy one of those factory service cards for well over $1000, and split the cost between them. I wonder what that worked out to per S-off.
At $25, Sunshine is a steal. Even if you get unlucky, and up shelling out $50, it's a good deal. If you are truly stupid, and shell out $75, you still at least have a developer phone.
I just hope jcase and beaups don't get tired of the crap and decide to go do something else with their time, as I have really enjoyed my M8 with S-off, and I would like to think they will still be around when the M10 comes out.
Wow, a while since I've posted in here and cannot believe the attitude of a so called dev on another dev.
It's deeply ungrateful and uncalled for to attack a handful of devs that, aside from the money, have obviously put a lot of time and effort into bringing such an exploit to the masses. Not just for this one thing, but also for gaining the knowledge to do it.
Anyone who declares he/she is a dev, should understand the time and effort that goes into these things.
I myself do understand as I have developed a few projects myself.
What's wrong with charging a perfectly reasonable sum? Do people complain to the networks when they have to pay for unlock codes?
What about paid apps on Google play, should they all be free?
No they shouldn't because at the end of the day it's up to the user if they want to pay or not. Nobody forces anyone's hand in their pocket.
So what if what has been recouped is so many times the cost? Does it matter if they made a dollar or a million? It just goes to show how many people desperately wanted it if that is the case.
The other alternative is nothing then there would be bountys flying about begging for someone to do it.
These guys took it upon themselves to provide a product, laid it on the table and said take it or leave it.
Don't get upset about it, don't moan about the cost, don't attack the provider of the product.
Quite simply sit back, think of the value it will bring to you, if you don't think its worth it, leave it alone and go and find an alternative solution.
Good day.
jshamlet said:
I really wish people would knock it off with this mess. There are few phones left that can be made truly open, and it's only because of Sunshine that the HTC One M7/8/9 phones are on that list. What do people want? No phones that can be turned into developer phones?
Seriously guys, the next time you are thinking of whining about $25, consider that for many phones, there is no solution. Want to do anything more than root a Samsung Galaxy S6? Good luck with that.
Maybe we need to add a section with pricing for JTAG services or S-off SD-cards. I recall for a while there was a pool of people who went in to buy one of those factory service cards for well over $1000, and split the cost between them. I wonder what that worked out to per S-off.
At $25, Sunshine is a steal. Even if you get unlucky, and up shelling out $50, it's a good deal. If you are truly stupid, and shell out $75, you still at least have a developer phone.
I just hope jcase and beaups don't get tired of the crap and decide to go do something else with their time, as I have really enjoyed my M8 with S-off, and I would like to think they will still be around when the M10 comes out.
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Click to collapse
+1 on this
I dare anyone of these guys complaining, to go and try and create an s-off tool, see how many 1000's of dollars of phones you destory before you get it right and all of your time spent on it, then give it away for free ????? really, I wouldnt.
When I was using my M7, and firewater was still alive, it used to fail, no matter what combination of rom's and kernals I used, now this was before sunshine was created, I used a shop in the UK based in sheffield, thankfully, an area I visit on a regular basis, they s-off HTC phones by java card for a price of £15 GBP, funny enough thats $25 ish http://www.fonefunshop.co.uk/Unlocking/htc_s-off_service.htm
the day I got home with my new M8, about 2 months ago, I unlocked it, flashed a custom recovery, rooted it, this was all before its first ever boot, I then booted it for the first time and ran sunshine through it, the stock rom and stock firmware never stood a chance.
Stop your complaining or live with s-on.
Seanie280672 said:
$25 is nothing compared to how much it cost the creators of sunshine, they destroyed loads of phones whist creating sunshine, obviously you need to test it before you release it to the public, and in the beginning it didn't always work, each phone at $500+ a pop isn't cheap, and they didn't all survive testing, so $25 is nothing.
You loose the ability to back flash, convert your phone to another version, jump around with firmware, s-on allows only current firmware flash and next step up, HBOOT flashing, modified firmware flashes, radio flashing, CID and MID changes, all sorts, I cant live without s-off myself.
you can pretty much rest assured that now you've rooted and possibly flashed a custom recovery, unlocked and flashed a custom rom, you've lost the ability to get any further updates from HTC, unless there is an RUU about for your phone to return it to full stock condition, it possible with s-on, but can be a nightmare.
Before you do anything with your phone, first learn how to fix it.
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Click to collapse
I understand but i believe they have made greater amounts of profit than just getting back the money for the phones they wasted. Not saying that it should be free but 25$ is a bit a lot for the ones living in the third world countries and the developers of sunshine overlooked that completely when deciding the cost.
shad0wboss said:
I understand but i believe they have made greater amounts of profit than just getting back the money for the phones they wasted. Not saying that it should be free but 25$ is a bit a lot for the ones living in the third world countries and the developers of sunshine overlooked that completely when deciding the cost.
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ok I understand, so lets say they gave it away for free now, how do you think all the people that paid would react ? id be P*VIST, its a no win situation, and developoment on it is continuious with each new release of a new version of android. ie Lollipop, it took a couple of weeks for sunshine to work on the newer HBOOT 1.61, before that sunshine only supported upto HBOOT 1.57.
Seanie280672 said:
ok I understand, so lets say they gave it away for free now, how do you think all the people that paid would react ? id be P*VIST, its a no win situation, and developoment on it is continuious with each new release of a new version of android. ie Lollipop, it took a couple of weeks for sunshine to work on the newer HBOOT 1.61, before that sunshine only supported upto HBOOT 1.57.
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Click to collapse
THat's why I said it shouldn't be "free" but the price should be reduced. This tool shouldn't only be for the people from the west but for everyone around the world. The price has been unfairly defined for this product for everyone. And for the people who paid 25$, they did because they could, so it doesn't sound "unfair" to me.
I ok will delete my share, co'z replay [URL="http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=61145873&postcount=63"]here[/URL] and here... If Mr Obsy no money to donate... no need donate... u
Thats not for money only! if your need donate, just donate.... if your no have money, you can use the tutorial without i know...|
although you can still consume without money... and our future you can still take my experience and try out without giving feedback or money ...
But these people speak as if I beggars and ask him...
The term donation, without coercion and determination....
But whether Mr. Osby has a copy and try to Kyoceranya then try to develop my tutorial last rewrite and publish at a later ??
thanks...
Somebody need try just contact me... without donate... just FREE! except Mr. Obsy
If u did this post just to ask money for someone else's work, better delete it because is not the way does this XDA community work....
I've never read something that immediately makes me feel as if I've just smoked every drug ever made in one setting. Never, until right just now.
kmt5150 said:
I've never read something that immediately makes me feel as if I've just smoked every drug ever made in one setting. Never, until right just now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sigh.... I cant tell anyone the frustration level i have is regarding this site, the ads, and the organzation of the info.... Im what everyone would consider an Old Guy! You know, the guy thats perfect for job and company age discrimination. Its difficult to tolerate lack of quality and mediocrity.
I have had a need for a cell phone that actually can take a tiny bump and survive unlike the rest of them due to the environment I work in. I have no choice.
However, as mentioned above from the prior poster regarding the crack pipe smoker.... I have fortold the future of legalized drugs in the US and the wonderful H1B Visa programs Scabs stealing American jobs... of course not to mention the fabulous resource ad intensive web browsing lockups on this website... etc, ect, ect,...
I only ask for a way to place a simple custom rom of the latest version of Android on my phone? Or maybe a link that has WORKING LINKS to the images and instructions on how to flash the phone. Which of course does not exist, work, or otherwise.... Seems to me that I use a program that crawls for dead links???? Wow theres an idea? especially if someone with good intentions cant live up to the good intentions....????
Its still amazing to me that I cant throw money at someone to:
A. View an ad free working forum website that doesn't lock my entire web browser and pc up.
B. Find someone who would simply provide successful workable steps with working links.
C. Or pay someone to walk me through a ROM flash since the very basics of this is the very basis of this website which has now been lost in space.
Why is it impossible to simply find the reason and goal of this website with working links? I realize Kyocera's are not the most popular phones, however an OS is an OS. Still surprising is that someone hasn't created a feature rich version that can be loaded on ANY phone with the ability to custom button functions. Just like any typical OS like windows or linux? If I had the time? I would provide this, however I guess since everyone works fulltime? We need a place to provide less than perfect projects to poison everyone elses phones??? The reason I dont do it is I realize that I dont have the time to provide a QUALITY functioning product without half way hacks...???
Please forgive me for being such a D***, I am truly sorry and mean no disrespect to all whom have worked so hard... The frustration level is based upon this lovely Javascript ad filled site that suck the life from my webbrowsers and my pc's.... I would give anything I had,,,, and I mean anything in order to have a five minute conversation with the creator of Javascript.....(The professors at the colleges insist he created Javascript in three weeks.... and it certainly shows) I guess it cost more than forty bucks a month to host this forum? so we need to make 10k a month to load it up with advertising and greed?
Thanks all for your patient and reviewing my post, I hope that you may be able to point me in the right direction. Please notice all the question marks... I put them there intentionally as a question becuase I dont understand why anyone would intentionally cripple a website with great info for money???? But again, remember Im stupid.
So its been a while since i had an htc.
The last one i had was so easy to root s-off super cid.
when it wasnt, i always loved the challenge.
If i recall you had to extract a file called mmcblk0p4 and modify it. Or just modify it with a hex editor right on your phone and place it back with a root explorer. actually i still have it in an old folder.
What is the problem here? How did htc fix that exploit? Why cant we figure it out?
Not that i dont appreciate an awesome app that does it for you. But i always loved doing it myself.
Not trying to bash or start a debate over moralities. Just an interesting and informative convo.
where there is a will there is a way!
Well actually I guess because the people who were discovering the exploits actually created sunshine and are distributing methods via this app only.
There's nobody that can use the app to figure out how the actual app does it?
Maybe I am thinking its more simple than it is. I know i sure as hell cant.
myphonesbetter said:
There's nobody that can use the app to figure out how the actual app does it?
Maybe I am thinking its more simple than it is. I know i sure as hell cant.
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It's an old discussion, but if you look up the Sunshine app thread you'll come across the explanation of why they decided to charge and what went into achieving S-OFF. Short answer: it's really hard.
Been about a year since i logged in apparently.
computerslayer said:
It's an old discussion, but if you look up the Sunshine app thread you'll come across the explanation of why they decided to charge and what went into achieving S-OFF. Short answer: it's really hard.
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Click to collapse
That is the perfect answer. it really hard.
its because some people are lazy and others are greedy thats why.
Honestly paying for an app to just do everything takes the fun out of it. Im not a coder or anything but most of what i have learned is from flashing phones and modding video games lol. Just dont have quite enough of an obsessive personality to be a full on mr robot.
I can see making a payed version that does the work for you and takes away the risk of bricking your phone. for the people who just want want want.
This im sure would make more than enough to cover costs. especially if the dev was in india or something.
Used phones with cracked screens or broken headphone jacks are a dime a dozen.
Or how about someone just reverse engineer the sunshine app. Or FIND AN EXPLOIT. and release it to the forums.
FAIR GAME right?
This team spent 100s of dollars and 100s accumulative hours to exploit something that costs 100's of millions of dollars and who knows how many hours to create and distribute.
The development thread seems so commercial now. Wouldn't be surprised if most of them were making money data mining selling info to advertisers.
Isnt that where the real money is these days.
I cant pay for it for the same reason i cant pay money for the better gun in a video game. Just pay to win. doesn't feel the same.
Also android is open source and free.
It blows my mind that only this one group of people can figure out how to do this.
Seems like the fact that there is money to be made would encourage more guy fawkes' to create some friendly compotish.
Plus if more "exploiters" could start from there then eventually it could end up so much more refined. Just like everything else on these forums.
Anyways sunshine is free and along with water gives life to the entire planet. I think they got the name wrong.
walmart mod group. buy out all other "developers" (hackers) and charge the people that keep this whole thing going.
I can appreciate and even envy the business sense and intelligence it takes to do what they do. cant say if i was in their shoes i wouldnt do everything i could to monetize it. But its just sad to the the community go down the toilet. This forum used to be so much more exciting. it seems like it used to create developers now you just pick a rom and move on. mother ****ing sad face.
You do realize, if it was trivial and cheap to do, the dozens of people who come complain would have done it sometime in the last three years.
We even publish detailed write ups, and source code snippets to parts of sunshine, including vulnerabilities and exploits. We get people 90% of the way there.
Even with use giving away critical parts of the project, people still don't release free versions. Why? because it isn't easy, and it isn't cheap. You are going to ruin a lot of phones along the way, and your work on the "cheap ones" doesn't apply to the new expensive ones, you are starting over from scratch with each generation, often with each firmware release.
We don't sell data to anyone, no ads on our sites or apps, even the numerous free apps like weaksauce and depixel8 have no ads, nor do their associated websites (not counting the thieves that rehost them with ads, thats not us).
We bought out no one, we pay no one to develop for us. We reinvest funds into more phone and equipment, sometimes some booze, and often into charity. Even google called us out for our charity work on their VRP blog.
Good luck on your endeavors, I encourage you to make a free alternative, to invest the money and time we did out of your own pocket. Neither of us are educated in security or computer scienece, we picked it up along the way when trying to hack on phones. No excuses! Anyone complaining should be working on an alternative. Don't expect much donations, or if you put a price on it don't expect much money from it, it isn't there.
myphonesbetter said:
Been about a year since i logged in apparently.
That is the perfect answer. it really hard.
its because some people are lazy and others are greedy thats why.
Honestly paying for an app to just do everything takes the fun out of it. Im not a coder or anything but most of what i have learned is from flashing phones and modding video games lol. Just dont have quite enough of an obsessive personality to be a full on mr robot.
I can see making a payed version that does the work for you and takes away the risk of bricking your phone. for the people who just want want want.
This im sure would make more than enough to cover costs. especially if the dev was in india or something.
Used phones with cracked screens or broken headphone jacks are a dime a dozen.
Or how about someone just reverse engineer the sunshine app. Or FIND AN EXPLOIT. and release it to the forums.
FAIR GAME right?
This team spent 100s of dollars and 100s accumulative hours to exploit something that costs 100's of millions of dollars and who knows how many hours to create and distribute.
The development thread seems so commercial now. Wouldn't be surprised if most of them were making money data mining selling info to advertisers.
Isnt that where the real money is these days.
I cant pay for it for the same reason i cant pay money for the better gun in a video game. Just pay to win. doesn't feel the same.
Also android is open source and free.
It blows my mind that only this one group of people can figure out how to do this.
Seems like the fact that there is money to be made would encourage more guy fawkes' to create some friendly compotish.
Plus if more "exploiters" could start from there then eventually it could end up so much more refined. Just like everything else on these forums.
Anyways sunshine is free and along with water gives life to the entire planet. I think they got the name wrong.
walmart mod group. buy out all other "developers" (hackers) and charge the people that keep this whole thing going.
I can appreciate and even envy the business sense and intelligence it takes to do what they do. cant say if i was in their shoes i wouldnt do everything i could to monetize it. But its just sad to the the community go down the toilet. This forum used to be so much more exciting. it seems like it used to create developers now you just pick a rom and move on. mother ****ing sad face.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sunshine has been about since the HTC One M7 days, I paid and used it on my M7 and M8 and about to use it on 2 x M9's, me personally, I really dont have a problem paying the $25 for it to do what it does, personally I think its dead cheap for what these guys did to get around HTCs so called fixes.
Now on to why it even costs in the first place, imagine whilst developing an app to this level, how many phones you had to buy and destroy along the way, this app isnt just for pretty much every HTC made since the M7, of course you are going to want some of it back, if you didnt, you'd be bankrupt in 2 days, with every release of firmware or every new phone release, the app needs to be modified and updated, Hell, you pay $200 for Microsoft Windows for the same reasons.
jcase said:
You do realize, if it was trivial and cheap to do, the dozens of people who come complain would have done it sometime in the last three years.
We even publish detailed write ups, and source code snippets to parts of sunshine, including vulnerabilities and exploits. We get people 90% of the way there.
Even with use giving away critical parts of the project, people still don't release free versions. Why? because it isn't easy, and it isn't cheap. You are going to ruin a lot of phones along the way, and your work on the "cheap ones" doesn't apply to the new expensive ones, you are starting over from scratch with each generation, often with each firmware release.
We don't sell data to anyone, no ads on our sites or apps, even the numerous free apps like weaksauce and depixel8 have no ads, nor do their associated websites (not counting the thieves that rehost them with ads, thats not us).
We bought out no one, we pay no one to develop for us. We reinvest funds into more phone and equipment, sometimes some booze, and often into charity. Even google called us out for our charity work on their VRP blog.
Good luck on your endeavors, I encourage you to make a free alternative, to invest the money and time we did out of your own pocket. Neither of us are educated in security or computer scienece, we picked it up along the way when trying to hack on phones. No excuses! Anyone complaining should be working on an alternative. Don't expect much donations, or if you put a price on it don't expect much money from it, it isn't there.
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Click to collapse
thanks for the response. It would be nice to get a response on the actual q i posted lol. (different thread)
I guess its easier when its trivial.
Its good to hear you guys donate some of it. and that youve release the majority of the code. i guess people are just lazy.
Honestly you dont need s-off. The main reason i would want it is incase i need to go back to stock for warranty reasons. In which case the money would be worth it. still more fun do follow a write and learn about what i am doing in the process.
As far as data mining im talking about some of the more popular roms and apps out there. not just in the htc forum. Just a thought. why wouldn't they.
And the question isn't why its $25. I get that. It is totally worth it. Its so easy to use. I used to spend hours troubleshooting to get my phones s-off'd and running smooth on all the roms. now you can do it in seconds. these days i just pick one that works better than stock and stick with it. seems like stock updates kill the phones now.
Its why hasn't anybody exploited sunshine or made a completely different app that does the same thing. Or even better a write up on how to do it yourself.
To say its expensive on the older phones is a stretch and to say its too hard is eh.
I couldn't do it but you guys did (very quickly). so that means there is some 8 year old that could do it in his sleep.
And to say its out of pocket is a stretch when its a payed service. Most business endeavors or charities require some sort of investment.
And you can make a large chunk of the money back selling a bricked phone for parts. especially if its the latest model.
Why don't you guys release the code for free when you once you pay yourselves back. If more people started out where you left off (much like how you guys started) then the next generation would take no effort. If there were a thousand people testing and communicating and working together then the cost and time would be nothing.
There is nowhere to start anymore. there used to be all kinds of write ups that forced you to learn more about how everything works. then naturally some people figure out what they are actually doing are inspired to improve on it (sunshine for example). but now its just seems so overwhelming. Like nobody is there to help out when you get stuck.
I guess it dragged a little deeper than i wanted. But every time someone asks these questions it turns into insult matches or just the copy pasted comment of i don't think $25 is too much. if you cant afford that then blah blah . then all credibility is lost and people are persuaded to think as the majority of commenters think. Mouthbreathers will be mouthbreathers. But they are the ones that make this consumer based economy function properly.
Again, not trying to bash the people that put their time into this. More so trying to spark thoughts in people's minds who would normally just follow suit. Highlight different perspectives.
myphonesbetter said:
Its why hasn't anybody exploited sunshine or made a completely different app that does the same thing. Or even better a write up on how to do it yourself.
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Click to collapse
Many people have tried to crack sunshine, I'm unaware of anyone being successful. It is actually pretty funny seeing how many hours people put into cracking SunShine, it is an worthless endeavor considering that most of the calculations are done server side, cracking the app doesn't get you anything as it is done server side. They would need to hack our WAN facing server, proxy through it and then hack the "offline" box we do the work on. This would be a felony on many levels. I like to think most people are honest, and don't go committing felony violations of CFAA over the fact that an app isn't free.
As far as a different app, it is hard, it is expensive, and most people with the skillset or drive, are tackling bigger problems.
Far as a writeup, we make plenty of them, where are your technical write ups?
myphonesbetter said:
To say its expensive on the older phones is a stretch and to say its too hard is eh.
I couldn't do it but you guys did (very quickly). so that means there is some 8 year old that could do it in his sleep.
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Click to collapse
None of this is "very fast", it all has years of research behind it. Research we did, we put the time and money into. Yes even on old phones it is expensive, the software we use (IDA Pro and Jeb) alone are $1000s a year in licensing fees. Considering each person needs a license, its very costly. And yes, we are not thieves, we actually have licenses in our names. Many models we have spent money on, never sell more than a couple licenses. So the more popular models also fund the work done on models that don't make any sales. Sure we could just not add support for oddball models sold in only one country, but what fun is that.
myphonesbetter said:
And to say its out of pocket is a stretch when its a payed service. Most business endeavors or charities require some sort of investment.
And you can make a large chunk of the money back selling a bricked phone for parts. especially if its the latest model.
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Click to collapse
The investment would be the out of pocket part, money to start projects doesnt just magically show up. New HTC u11 is what $600 bucks? One we fried the soc and mmc on? What $50 if we are selling it honestly (cause that thing wont EVER be repaired, and screen is about the only part re-usable)? Plus we run the risk of our debug builds leaking if someone is able to extract memory from the device, no thanks, not reselling a burned phone for $50(or even $300) and risk losing everything we have worked on for the last few years.
myphonesbetter said:
Why don't you guys release the code for free when you once you pay yourselves back. If more people started out where you left off (much like how you guys started) then the next generation would take no effort. If there were a thousand people testing and communicating and working together then the cost and time would be nothing.
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Click to collapse
We have released plenty of free training material, white papers and example source code for people to start off of. Those resources would be much better than starting off with SunShine source code. As we have said, when SunShine is done, we will open source it. Considering no one does anything with what we do release, I have doubts anyone would do anything with everything we don't release. We were sure we would get 0 sales on Droid Turbo after publishing that write up, we thought someone would have a free exploit written that day. It has been years, nothing so far.
myphonesbetter said:
If there were a thousand people testing and communicating and working together then the cost and time would be nothing.
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LOL. People don't contribute to most mobile OSS projects, go look at copperhead, look at their commit history. I'm even guilty of it, my contributions besides projects I helped started are minimal (even my commits to AOSP are few).
myphonesbetter said:
There is nowhere to start anymore. there used to be all kinds of write ups that forced you to learn more about how everything works. then naturally some people figure out what they are actually doing are inspired to improve on it (sunshine for example). but now its just seems so overwhelming. Like nobody is there to help out when you get stuck.
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All of our write ups are still up, and we still publish more each year, I don't know what the heck you are going on about here. Please take the time to look rather than just make such claims.
myphonesbetter said:
Again, not trying to bash the people that put their time into this. More so trying to spark thoughts in people's minds who would normally just follow suit. Highlight different perspectives.
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Click to collapse
Again, feel free to use the free resources we have and continue to provide to the community for free to build your own. We DO NOT discourage people from doing so, we actively encourage it by publishing a fair bit of our work for free. I even traveled on my own dime (not sunshine money, not someone else's money, but from my paycheck) without reimbursement to Las Vegas with Tim Strazzere and Caleb Fenton to provide trading FOR FREE. We over filled the maximum occupancy for the room. We were not allowed to take any more people.
In reality, and not to be insulting, it is pretty obvious you didn't properly research all of this.