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Folks:
My PDA2k stylus has become too loose and I am starting to drop it everywhere: my pockets, my car, etc. In all likelihood, if I don't find a solution pronto, I'll be using my fingers because of a lost stylus.
Is anyone out there having this problem? How do you deal with it?
Thanks in advance.
Fernando
my XDA2s is getting worse, its 2 months old and gets used, give it another month and i be needing to get a big big box of replacement stylus's
Stylus problem? no problem.
Hey guys!
I'd just leave the regular stylus in my MDAIII and I went and got these check it out : http://www.truetip.com
They have all kind of stylus stuff that may can work out for you. I bought a few :wink: of each and I hardly every use the one in my unit. I hope this helps, Take care fellas! :wink:
I've just encountered this problem and went the "Classy" way with my solution.
Magic tape wraped twice around the top of the stylus. Fingers crossed I'll have no more retracing my steps fun looking for a missing stylus. :lol:
hmmmn just put (stick) small neoprene inside the hole (opening)....
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[5561 006.jpg]
thanks,
jojo
Or just buy some more styluses i bought 3 from here and recieved the item next day. I'm also going to buy an xda2s handsfree from him as i have lost that 2.
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZairportinfo
expansys.com has a lot of different kinds of stylus for PDA2K or similar. there are regular and with pen included.
expansys has offices in diferents countries. check yours.
Tano
Leave it in for service, it's the only way that HTC will understand that they need to go up some notches on the Hardware quality.
There is no way I'm taping anything on a 1.000,-$ unit
Mine is headding for service once more in the near future.
tano said:
expansys.com has a lot of different kinds of stylus for PDA2K or similar. there are regular and with pen included.
expansys has offices in diferents countries. check yours.
Tano
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
these ones are original styluses
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZairportinfo
There is no way I'm taping anything on a 1.000,-$ unit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point. This thing cost more than my old car. Just whilt we're on the topic of hardware that was clearly not tested thoroughly before it as marketed, does anyone else's sliding mechanism scratch the keyboard?
yep on the left hand side. and i hardly ever use the keyboard so its not down to wear and tear.
to be honest the xda2s does feel cheap when its on your hand.
scratch on the left side of keyboard... hardly used the keyboard though...
and a gap between the lcd and battery slider on the right hand side...
I fixed mine with a single layer of tape around the top of the stylus. Now just enough grip to hold on.
rich
Mine went back to the O2 service centre on Sunday! The slider was never right from the day I got it (this one was my second) and I lost a stylus the other day. The sliding keyboard was so far away from the chassis I could see daylight through it!
I also had the "wear" makes on BOTH sides of the keyboard and the Sales assistant said that they ALWAYS get those on every unit they get back, which I'm told is quite a few!
I'm waiting on a response from them as I suspect as before, they will just give me a brand new one. Anyway, I'm thinking of Ebaying the XDAIIs and getting myself an Orange c550/Qtek 8200 (HTC Robbie) Smartphone as I'm not impressed with the build quality compared to the XDAII/IIi!
We'll see!
Dom
Loose stylus - Stylus falls out
I dropped my BA 5 meters onto a concrete floor. It landed on the corner and bent the corner in. I just picked it up and it still worked. I use it in a industrial enviroment so it looks ugly, but always works. My old Ipaqs couldn't handle a one meter fall onto carpet without cracking the screen.
Oh yeah! Here's the fix to the original problem on this thread. It's really a easy fix. It's been 5 months since I lost a stylus.
-Back up your data.
-Remove the cover you will find a small tab in the stylus channel intended to engage the notch cut into the stylus. Gently push the tab back into the stylus channel so that it will engage the stylus notch once again. Be careful if you push it too far it will break.
-Slide the stylus into the channel to verify that the tab again engages the stylus notch.
-Remove the stylus again.
-Apply a small dab silicone sealant (available at any hardware store) behind the stylus retention tab. This is the "V" shaped area between the tab and the case. Be sure to fill this entire area. When the silicone has cured it will become a spring with much better position memory then the original plastic tab had on its own.
-If your corner is bent straighten it now(see above)
-Reassemble BA
-Allow 24 hours for the silicone to cure before inserting the stylus into the channel.
I believe this is more then a repair, it is an upgrade!
Good Luck,
N2O2
The Low-Tech Way
I crammed a little wad of paper into the area between the case and the little plastic spring. Works like a charm!
Hi guys, just wondering if any users out there are having the same problems as me. ive had my Blue Angel now for a good 6 months and im very happy with it appart from it doesnt ring which is very very annoying :twisted: anyone know a fix for this?
But main reason for this post is; has anyone got the same problem that the holder for the stylus has become used and now doesnt hold the stylus in place anymore? i remember there being a click when pushing the stylus in. but now it just falls out when i tip the PDA upside down.
Anyone whos opened up a BA can you give any details on how the holder works? can it be modded so that it grips the stylus again? im one for opening up electrinics and playing with them but since i use this for alot of my work i cant risk it.
many thanks for any replies.
DJUPLIFT
I have the same issues. I tried to take mine apart but could not seem to separate the back side of the case. I removed 3 screws from behind the battery, and one from either side of the device. I too would like any input.
It totally blows... cos i always end up taking the phone out of my pocket and sometimes i dont hear the stylus drop. ive already lost two like this... it might end up being more expensive to just keep buying stylus than to open the BA and screw it up... All in all my ones been opened already :shock:
i dropped it on concrete and somehow the touchscreen stopped working although the screen was intact. O2 replaced it with a brand new one for diddly sqwat!! FANTASTIC!!!
i might just take it appart next weekend and have a little look inside see if there is a way to access this comparment and maybe doing a little DIY style modding!
if i come up with any conclusions ill post them with some pics of course!
DJUPLIFT
a friend of mine took his apart and there does not appear to be a way to tighten the stylus. He said it was just a small plastic protusion that held it in place. Once it wears, you are out of luck. Have not seen this myself, but thats what he tells me..
Regards
chris
that's correct, it's just a plastic clip protruding to grab the gap on the stylus. if it's broken, you may just have to put a tape or sticker around the stylus to make it tighter.
there are 4 screws (one under the void sticker) where the battery goes. i just took mine apart to tighten slider. it's back to sliding smoothly & tight, however, there's still a noticeable gap (between the screen plate & keyboard plate).
anyone knows how to eliminate this gap (about 2mm)?
Try this solution: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=15120&highlight=loose+stylus
Cheers
Frankman
I use 1 layer of tape around the stylus. spanning the groove in the stylus. This seems to make it a good bit tighter, but does not fix the problem entirely. Hope that helps..
Regards
Chris
i dont like the idea of having tape on my stylus... looks well tacky going into a metting with clients!!
so i took some black insulation tape and made small squares with an art blade and stuck them to the inner edge of the holder... now it sits there nice and tight like a school girl
S O R T E D!!!!
cheers for the help guys/gals.... if any....
An idiot friend of mine put a blade of grass in the stylus holder and now it wont come out. How do I fish it out? The good thing is, my stylus doesn't slide out so easily anymore.
I have also encountered this problem(i got my BA 6 months till now), however it is not that loose as what ur described. at lease it never drop out when i was outside. (after reading this i become worry about it)
I used to own a IPAQ 5550, when i got my BA, i thought the quality of the stylus is better than ipaq's plastic stylus(should have some heavy stuff insde..), i like the BA's metalic stylus.
Now i found that the IPAQ plastic stylus + the spring-like system inside the whole is much better...i want to have one BA + the metalic stylus + the spring-like system to hold the stylus....
if some day i am that unlucky to lost my BA's stylus i will try to use the 3-in-one PDA pen... once it lost one, i may lost another... i wont use normal stylus if it happened.
DJUPLIFT wrote[/quote]
i dont like the idea of having tape on my stylus... looks well tacky going into a metting with clients!!
You have to use that "invisable" tape and only the keyboard and buttons if its a Director or above! :lol:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Loose stylus - Stylus falls out
This has worked for me. It's been 5 months, and it still works.
-Back up your data.
-Remove the cover you will find a small tab in the stylus channel intended to engage the notch cut into the stylus. Gently push the tab back into the stylus channel so that it will engage the stylus notch once again. Be careful if you push it too far it will break.
-Slide the stylus into the channel to verify that the tab again engages the stylus notch.
-Remove the stylus again.
-Apply a small dab silicone sealant (available at any hardware store) behind the stylus retention tab. This is the "V" shaped area between the tab and the case. Be sure to fill this entire area. When the silicone has cured it will become a spring with much better position memory then the original plastic tab had on its own.
-Reassemble your BA.
-Allow 24 hours for the silicone to cure before inserting the stylus into the channel.
I believe this is more then a repair, it is an upgrade.
Good Luck,
N2O2
Yet again we're having to come up with dodgy (although well thought out) solutions to HTC's shoddy design flaws. My BA is about 3 - 4 months old and its up to this already. I keep finding my stylus on the floor.
Thing is, all these solutions void the warranty and I have to take mine back soon (See the Xray thread ) and am hoping for a replacement on insurance.
The P800 and XDA2 had this problem as well, but surprisingly I have NEVER lost a single stylus in my life! I always just happen to find them again. One time I found my P800 stylus 2 days later in the street between my college and my flat :S
Re: Loose stylus - Stylus falls out
N2O2 said:
This has worked for me. It's been 5 months, and it still works.
-Back up your data.
-Remove the cover you will find a small tab in the stylus channel intended to engage the notch cut into the stylus. Gently push the tab back into the stylus channel so that it will engage the stylus notch once again. Be careful if you push it too far it will break.
-Slide the stylus into the channel to verify that the tab again engages the stylus notch.
-Remove the stylus again.
-Apply a small dab silicone sealant (available at any hardware store) behind the stylus retention tab. This is the "V" shaped area between the tab and the case. Be sure to fill this entire area. When the silicone has cured it will become a spring with much better position memory then the original plastic tab had on its own.
-Reassemble your BA.
-Allow 24 hours for the silicone to cure before inserting the stylus into the channel.
I believe this is more then a repair, it is an upgrade.
Good Luck,
N2O2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea! It's perfect!
THANK YOU N2O2
N2O2
You just made the wiki hall of fame
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=BA_Sty_stopper
Any Kentucky Fried ChÃcken fans out there?
After losing 5 styli - not only because they were loose in the holder (one went on the motorcycle after I missed the holder hole and then let it go) I came up with this junky solution.
The KFC corn cob holders are a good diameter (had to add a thin layer of tape) and just long enough to be modifiable to add a knureld part at upper end. At at least one of their restaurants I found them outside of the front counter and was able to obtain a few cheap spare emergency styli
Oh well.
:lol: :lol: HAHAHAHAHA You are grade man .....
Lost another one from the new phone in the few hours since I posted the KFC thing.
Uuuups - time to go out for a buckt of the Colonels finest.
Lost another one from the new phone in the few hours since I posted the KFC thing.
Uuuups - time to go out for a buckt of the Colonels finest.
Lost another one from the new phone in the few hours since I posted the KFC thing.
Uuuups - time to go out for a buckt of the Colonels finest.
I HATE using the iphone that my friends have because i cannot use my nail. I am so used to using my nail since 2004. I wish they would have used resistive multi touch instead of capacitive.
Guess i will be keeping my TD 2 for a long long time.
Guess you are.
What's the point of this thread and why couldn't you just post your opinion in the "WP7 is complete fail" thread?
Capacitive are much better than resistive screens for touch screen phones and that's a fact(you just need to get used to them). For tablets it's the other way around.
It would be awesome if someone figured out a way to utilize both techs.
Toss3 said:
It would be awesome if someone figured out a way to utilize both techs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read through the feature list of this touchscreen technology: http://www.atmel.com/products/touchscreens/default.asp?family_id=701
The eleventh bullet point states: "Supports stylus, fingernails, and gloves". BTW this touchscreen technology is used on the HTC Droid Incredible and the HTC EVO. Maybe you could test if it works on those screens if you come across either of those phones.
Helmore said:
Read through the feature list of this touchscreen technology: http://www.atmel.com/products/touchscreens/default.asp?family_id=701
The eleventh bullet point states: "Supports stylus, fingernails, and gloves". BTW this touchscreen technology is used on the HTC Droid Incredible and the HTC EVO. Maybe you could test if it works on those screens if you come across either of those phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't work according to owners of the incredible.
There are resistive screens that support both nails and multitouch.
They are not supported by Microsoft however. But we might see them in other (e.g. Android) phones in the future.
shaundalglish said:
There are resistive screens that support both nails and multitouch.
They are not supported by Microsoft however. But we might see them in other (e.g. Android) phones in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't expect any Android phones with resistive screens from any of the bigger Android supporters in the industry, like HTC for example. HTC has said that they learned from the HTC Tattoo to never do an Android phone with a resistive touchscreen again. It's simply too much of an inferior experience and that makes the higher cost of a capacitive touchscreen worth it.
The problem with a resistive touchscreen is that it reacts to pressure and not to contact. That's precisely what you need if you want to operate the touchscreen with your nails, but it just doesn't work well for all other touchscreen user interface manipulations. It's just a much more pleasant experience if the screen reacts to your input without having to barely do anything, it makes using the touchscreen a much more delightful experience.
Another problem with a resistive touchscreen is the fact that because it reacts to pressure, the screen need to be flexible. This means that you can't use a tempered glass screen or something similar on a resistive touchscreen device and you can't (or it's very very hard to) make a device with a touchscreen that's flush with its bezel. The former means that your screen a more prone to scratching and also that it makes the underlying screen a bit more vulnerable to damage.
Now I agree that a capacitive touchscreen also has its drawbacks, but for a mobile phone or a PMP a capacitive touchscreen and a finger friendly user interface is preferable in my opinion compared to a resistive touchscreen. There are other market segments and usage scenarios where a device with a resistive touchscreen is preferable to a capacitive touchscreen, for example in Postal Services where the mail man can collect a signature from you on his portable device that features a resistive touchscreen or in restaurants. But for a mobile phone I'd prefer a capacitive touchscreen simply because it's much easier to use and I don't need a stylus (too cumbersome) on a mobile phone.
This is not a resistive vs. capacitive discussion. I much prefer capacitive on phones, but here's a user who wants to use his fingernails. Hence I was just stating the facts: Microsoft does not support anything but capacitive, but we might see new resistive panels on other phones (that are different from and much better than what was used in the tattoo).
Whether you like resistive screens or not is another story.
xboxhaxorz said:
I HATE using the iphone that my friends have because i cannot use my nail. I am so used to using my nail since 2004. I wish they would have used resistive multi touch instead of capacitive.
Guess i will be keeping my TD 2 for a long long time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer resistive as well. I like to use my fingernail. I also like to draw and using a stylus on a resistive screen feels better.
But we're pretty much the odd men out, so we'll just have to get used to it.
gom99 said:
I prefer resistive as well. I like to use my fingernail. I also like to draw and using a stylus on a resistive screen feels better.
But we're pretty much the odd men out, so we'll just have to get used to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never used a capacative screen so I don't know if I will like it or not. I don't have fingernails but I do like using my pencil or stylus in class while doing math problems on my spacetime graphic calc software so It'll be interesting to see how I feel about a capacative screen.
Resistive great for sweaty palms
For a guy who's hands sweats alot, I actually had to give up my blackberry storm for a Touch pro 2... Now, I agree that the capacitive screen is very easy to manipulate but when my hands sweat 85% of the time, a resistive screen is a godsend. While the percentage of sweaty palms vs normal palms is probably very small, capacitive screens turn to shyte when water gets on it.... and when that happens, it's like I have a brick...i cannot do anything... even if my hands get clammy, the difficulty in typing or navigating the screen is "hair pulling" awful.
To be honest... I really love using my nails and a stylus... plus you have to admit...pullng out a touch pro 2 in a meeting and then using the stylus...It just brings a green hue to the room (envy) lol!
scattaman said:
For a guy who's hands sweats alot, I actually had to give up my blackberry storm for a Touch pro 2... Now, I agree that the capacitive screen is very easy to manipulate but when my hands sweat 85% of the time, a resistive screen is a godsend. While the percentage of sweaty palms vs normal palms is probably very small, capacitive screens turn to shyte when water gets on it.... and when that happens, it's like I have a brick...i cannot do anything... even if my hands get clammy, the difficulty in typing or navigating the screen is "hair pulling" awful.
To be honest... I really love using my nails and a stylus... plus you have to admit...pullng out a touch pro 2 in a meeting and then using the stylus...It just brings a green hue to the room (envy) lol!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't feel bad, I have Hyperhidrosis too. Probably the main reason I hate capacitive, anything I touch turns to a smudgy mess. I know you can use a stylus with a capacitive screen, but it really feels awkward with the 1cm^2 tip and the lack of precision of a real stylus. Also it's not contractable and easily stored in the device since it's not the norm to have a stylus with a capacitive screen.
I reckon y'all have got girl fingernails.
Come on guys, trim those nails, and would it kill you to use the fingernail brush every once in a while?
Capacitive screens Feck The World!
elyl said:
I reckon y'all have got girl fingernails.
Come on guys, trim those nails, and would it kill you to use the fingernail brush every once in a while?
Capacitive screens Feck The World!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you don't need a long fingernail to touch your fingernail against something...just turn your finger more so your nail makes contact with the surface before your tip does. Unless of course you have unsightly hands where your meaty part of your finger encapulates your fingernail.
Looks good , very well done!
I know they have resistive multi touch but its probably too expensive. I might end up switching to another company for phones and i would hate too as i have been a HTC user since the wing. The capacitive glassy feel is not for me, and a stylus is a must especially for drawing and hw recognition which the hd2 and iphone have none of.
xboxhaxorz said:
The capacitive glassy feel is not for me, and a stylus is a must
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, no stylus, no ability to use small, space efficient text....no interest.
gom99 said:
I prefer resistive as well. I like to use my fingernail. I also like to draw and using a stylus on a resistive screen feels better.
But we're pretty much the odd men out, so we'll just have to get used to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I'd also rather use my stylus because I want my phone like a mini-computer. It can't use a mouse for pin-point accuracy, but a stylus sure suffices.
I understand the world is going to capacitive touchscreens and it's a shame. I always liked resistive better. It's more accurate. I know that people want to use their finger tips to swipe and sweep and whatever, but there are plenty of limitations out there to it.
Helmore said:
Read through the feature list of this touchscreen technology: http://www.atmel.com/products/touchscreens/default.asp?family_id=701
The eleventh bullet point states: "Supports stylus, fingernails, and gloves". BTW this touchscreen technology is used on the HTC Droid Incredible and the HTC EVO. Maybe you could test if it works on those screens if you come across either of those phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wish I had 16 fingers...
You guys could always use a capacitive stylus. Remeber capacitive screen works by detecting a change of charge in the screen. Basically things that can conduct electricity should be usable as a stylus. If you're smart, you wouldn't find it hard to modify any stylus to make it work with a capacitive screen.
Else, you could buy any of the capacitive styluses online, which usually cost 3-20 dollar-ish. The fluffy tip is the best as you don't need to hold it at an angle.
I'm still waiting for my HD2 currently, and I already ordered that stylus in advance
jo_iii said:
You guys could always use a capacitive stylus. Remeber capacitive screen works by detecting a change of charge in the screen. Basically things that can conduct electricity should be usable as a stylus. If you're smart, you wouldn't find it hard to modify any stylus to make it work with a capacitive screen.
Else, you could buy any of the capacitive styluses online, which usually cost 3-20 dollar-ish. The fluffy tip is the best as you don't need to hold it at an angle.
I'm still waiting for my HD2 currently, and I already ordered that stylus in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but the capacitive stylus feels nothing like the resistive ones.
So, I always try to tinker with things. So far I am not too versed in tinkering with apps, software, wiring, or other nonphysical or internal electronic things, but I'm a just a novice student of XDA so far
Anyways, I looked at the s-pen holder, and found that I had crapped a brick, at the $30-40 price tag. So... dremel! I cut a few pens apart, and finally came across a large sleeve portion, that I could slide onto the pen, until it is stopped my the raised part at the end. What I found, was that, not only did this quickly removable sleeve not block off the S-pen button, it added a comfortable raised area at the button's border. I used to accidentally press the pen button. Not with my cheapskate sleeve!:good: It feels more comfortable, and has more control over writing (i tested that by drawing freehand geometric shapes, sleeved VS naked stock, BIG IMPROVEMENT!)
I also modified the flip case, my velcro-ing 2 small Moleskine books (that have been modified by using electrical tape, to make surprisingly good pen holsters). I found that try as I might, to completely eliminate paper (when you have OCD, it's more trouble than it's worth), I found that it still has its place. I can write to-do's on index cards, put them in the Moleskine pocket, and I can rearrange them as I please, unlike a paged notebook planner. Obviously I can also write physical notes, and have a functionally relevant place to store business cards, and scraps with phone numbers, and detach the physical notebooks for OTG. An added plus, is that my crappy case only does landscape orientation. In college lectures, It is more comfortable to write in portrait, not to mention, the audio recording mic gets muffled in landscape. By removing one of the notebooks, it puts the tablet at the perfect slight angle for writing comfort.
Will post pics once I can sync them up with dropbox. Was wondering if anyone else was tinkering with physical mods. I'd like this thread to be one where everybody gives tips & shows their DIY work. :highfive:
I work in a shop environment with lots of titanium, magnesium, steel, and aluminum dust. Would this be an issue with the fold 3's inner screen or is it stong enough to withstand the metal dust being in my pocket Tweakbox Appvalley https://vlc.onl.
You said the keyword "dust." I don't think the screen would be the prime victim-- but if you are concerned about the abrasive properties of fine particles, I'd probably want to have a source of compressed air to sweep the surface. I get to the more concerning elements below-- but I suspect that those can be addressed.
I don't think the display itself is more fragile than any other modern phone's coated surface. But I might be concerned about abrasive particles resting on the inner display surface while open and then being "stored" there when the clamshell is closed. You'd be a better judge of whether static electricity would make these particles more stubborn to blow away. And also you'd have to judge how profuse those particles are in the working environment.
I'd also have the same concern-- but to a lesser extent-- about the hinge area. The Z Fold 3 has a pretty good hinge cover. But I can't guess whether particles measured in microns might be a stubborn problem. You use the word dust rather than shavings so this might be a concern. Some cases have hinge covers. Mine does not*. I was not impressed by the design and protection offered by the ones I saw when I researched them. (Extensively before I actually had experience with my own Z Fold 3.)
Now on to that keyword "dust." I have had my Z Fold 3 for four weeks now. I flew from the US to Asia and I noticed an increasing tendency for incoming calls to be muffled and ultimately barely audible. I brought the device to the local Samsung Customer Service Center. (That's something that hardly exists in the US except in Glendale, CA and maybe in the NY Metro area.) The associate took my Z Fold 3 and went into the back room-- presumably where the techs are sweating away. She came back and had my hubby call me. Sure enough the sound was back to it's pristine state. She told me the problem was due to dust in the narrow slot just above the top of the phone's inner display. (And I have not been in an environment like your workplace-- but I live in a US desert city.)
I asked her whether canned air would work in the future. She seemed skeptical but I cannot be sure whether it was a language comprehension issue, a lack of experience with the Fold series-- or both. But I can tell you: whatever they did in the back room must have been simple because she was only back there for 2 minutes or so. Half of that must have been describing the customer complaint.
Can you think of a simple air flow chamber you could create or repurpose to periodically "freshen up" the phone?
* I got the very pricey Supcase Unicorn Beetle case. I never heard of this supplier before. But after reading customer reviews on that "smiley" site and looking at YouTube reviews/demos, I concluded that it provided good solid protection on everything other than the hinge. And as a bonus it has a well situated compartment for the Z Fold Edition S Pen. It's easy to access. So clever that I ordered the S Pen even though I am not a very stylus-oriented person. The stylus stays snugly in the compartment so I won't lose it even when the compartment is open.
I hope I gave you enough to reflect on. Feel free to probe more.
Oh-- here's another thing you didn't ask about: am I sorry I spent that much? OK-- I got a great deal from Samsung with tradein so it made the price more palatable. But nevertheless-- I traveled to Asia over 22 hours with my brand new toy. Left my laptop, mini tablet and old phone home. I discovered that the Z Fold 3 will work nicely with the Logitech K400 series keyboards-- and their embedded touchpads. Wow!
Signing off for now...