I notice the phone start lagging when there are less than 100Meg of available RAM on both 2.1 or 2.2 SGS.
Questions....
1. How do i make sure there will always be min 130 available when not in use?
I'm currently using Froyo Task Manager, ATK and SystemPanel together to make that happen manually. A better suggestion or use of them will be appreciated.
I also tried MemoryPlus and Taskkiller (The red android logo)
2. There are so many background service running some of them start with com.samsung.... (what are these?) do we need them?
3. Why some Apps always run without us telling them to run, or ask us to give them to permission to run on background at will?
ATK
In ATK in settings you have auto kill level, which is disabled on default.
jakaka said:
In ATK in settings you have auto kill level, which is disabled on default.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using JPC, ATK autokill will not able to kill at a system level like SystemPanel, so after a day of active use, the memory will still continue to reduce as some of the background service start consuming more and more memory or run more background process. E.g. Touchwiz from 17 Meg to 25 Meg.
So at the start with ATK, i will have 130Meg, after a day of active use i left with 80Meg. With Apps killed.
I use autokiller set to aggressive. memory left 152mb
ivanchin99 said:
I use autokiller set to aggressive. memory left 152mb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool, does that remain for few days? How often do you restart your phone?
free memory is bad memory!
why don't let android do it's job?! this ist linux with a clever memory management, not windows 95!!! deinstall all auto task killer android is handling the memory very well. it uses all it can get and if it's not enough it kills old uses apps from it. why have free memory, there is absolutely no reson for that! ram is fast, let the often used apps be there not on slow sd or nand!
Mykron said:
free memory is bad memory!
why don't let android do it's job?! this ist linux with a clever memory management, not windows 95!!! deinstall all auto task killer android is handling the memory very well. it uses all it can get and if it's not enough it kills old uses apps from it. why have free memory, there is absolutely no reson for that! ram is fast, let the often used apps be there not on slow sd or nand!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QFT!
What is the point of having memory if it is constantly empty?
Think about it this way...If you had five friends at your house and you have five chairs, do you make 2 or 3 of your friends stand so there is always empty space or do you let everyone sit down and worry about something worthwhile?
Finguz said:
QFT!
What is the point of having memory if it is constantly empty?
Think about it this way...If you had five friends at your house and you have five chairs, do you make 2 or 3 of your friends stand so there is always empty space or do you let everyone sit down and worry about something worthwhile?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, upto a certain point... I don't think you need to have at least 100 or 150 mb free but it DOES seem to help to not let it get down to like 30mb...
For me:
-JM7
-animations off
-voodoo lag fix
-minfree manager set to preset agressive.
minfree manager customizes the android memory management system.
I love it this way, No lags when starting the Phone (DIALER) or anything else. The dialer annoys me the must, this must be lag free, if i want to dial i want to dial right away.
Btw, I think you have made some wrong assumptions about the Android memory management system, as mentioned, unused ram is wasted ram.
dagrim1 said:
True, upto a certain point... I don't think you need to have at least 100 or 150 mb free but it DOES seem to help to not let it get down to like 30mb...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed but I have never seen my Galaxy with free memory that low and I don't use a task killer. Of course I don't often have more than 3 or 4 apps running at the same time
This is not about letting ram do nothing.you surely don't wasn't your ram get used up by programs you don't want while you had no hand in this.All those services running I don't want.badly written programs that are hanging out in memory instead of closing.at least in symbian an app closed when you exited.
Why would you have 100MB free ? Do you have any application that needs 100MB to run ?! The android system already has enough memory to run so even if you could have 200MB of free memory you phone wouldn't run any faster you would just be able to lauch around 20 apps at the same time.
Read this:
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
Linux however isn’t generally affected by this. While I admit that I don’t know the architecture and reason for this… linux will run the same regardless of if you have 20mb free memory or 200mb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finguz said:
Agreed but I have never seen my Galaxy with free memory that low and I don't use a task killer. Of course I don't often have more than 3 or 4 apps running at the same time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dunno, I just noticed that one time my phone was VERY sluggish and memory free was around 20mb or so. Cleaning it up did seem to help (unless one of the programs killed was causing the lag of course).
Ah well... Whatever people choose right?
You guys can argue all you want that free RAM is a waste of RAM....
But it is a fact that the SGS runs much slower when the free RAM is low. This is the experience of all the SGS'es I have tried and my own as well. At least this is the case when running 2.1. I have not tested anyone with 2.2 yet.
It s starts to lag when memory is below 40 mb. So when it s low and you start an application it starts to lag. I set it to 50-55-60 and got hardly any lag. No need to keep so much free ram
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
matty___ said:
It s starts to lag when memory is below 40 mb. So when it s low and you start an application it starts to lag. I set it to 50-55-60 and got hardly any lag. No need to keep so much free ram
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which ROM are you using? as the low memory killer level for background apps is set at 40M which means you should have 40M free all the time or it will start killing background apps. This is also why task killers are useless, free ram is wasted ram for android.
I never had the experience that more free RAM is faster, perhaps with the stock rom but JC and upwards are all good by default. Animations off + Oneclick lagfix (or another) and the phone stays totally lag free.
Being an android user for 1,5 years now i'm very confident Taskkillers are useless except when an app is stuck. I've had periods where I used them allot but the phone only gets slower as the killed apps have to be loaded into the memory again.
Finguz said:
QFT!
What is the point of having memory if it is constantly empty?
Think about it this way...If you had five friends at your house and you have five chairs, do you make 2 or 3 of your friends stand so there is always empty space or do you let everyone sit down and worry about something worthwhile?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Provided you are not expecting anymore friends. The problem happens if all your 5 friends are happily seated and along comes 2 more friends a-visiting. So you have to now move 2 inactive (for want of a better word) friends out of the seats so that you can accommodate the 2 new ones. This takes time. So why not move these friends out as soon as they become inactive so that the space is readily available when someone comes calling?
Try to have a read about garbage collector before argueing about free memory.
The more you try to have a large amount of memory, the more you will need major GC (and during major GC all activity is frozen).
If you let the system manage memory, it does minor GC as needed when it reaches min memory waterline (seems to be 50Mo on SGS).
Let the system do its job.
Get rid of task killer.
Mykron said:
free memory is bad memory!
why don't let android do it's job?! this ist linux with a clever memory management, not windows 95!!! deinstall all auto task killer android is handling the memory very well. it uses all it can get and if it's not enough it kills old uses apps from it. why have free memory, there is absolutely no reason for that! ram is fast, let the often used apps be there not on slow sd or nand!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely disagree. OK, it is better to use memory, but the android memory management is extremely inefficient since it does not know which foreground and background processes are important to the user and which are not, even though it tries to figure that out. Since the Galaxy S does not allow the system to use the full 512MB of memory, this can be a critical factor. And the Galaxy S definitely lags massively when less then 70 or so MB of free RAM is available this is definitely a fact.
The biggest problem is that you cannot manually close apps and only have multitasking access to the last 6 apps used. If you use 7 apps simultaneously, the 1st app still consumes memory but you cannot even switch back to it. And there are so many useless background processes, starting up over and over again and consuming hundreds of MB memory if they are not killed in regular fashion.
Who needs gesture search, amazon mp3, layar, and all the samsung crap running in the background all the time. If you only have 10 such applications and each of them only consumes 15MB of ram, 150MB are wasted for nothing.
Every second market application registers itself as autostart on every boot, so to use a autostart manager is also mandatory.
Since everybody can easily develop for Android the application quality and resource efficiency is not always perfect. So in my opinion Android needs a task manager, this is why even Samsung integrates such a application.
Using a well configured ATK (set to ignore system applications, widgets and apps frequently used for multitasking and killing every else on screen off) and autokiller (strict setting) in addition to Autostart Manager (had to remove 40!!! useless apps from automatic startup) and lagfix, the SGS runs perfectly smooth.
Related
Hello Android Gurus
I have bought Galaxy S (My first Android phone) 2 weeks ago and i have been experimenting with it since. I have noticed one thing regarding how android manages memory and its quite alarming.
When i start my phone I typically have around 160 Mb of RAM. As i load an application that requires 10 MB for example, the available RAM evidently drops to 150 MB but when I kill the application the RAM goes up but not to the previous level (e.g. goes up to 157).
little RAM is always lost as applications are opened and closed. This means that after a couple of hours of using the phone, the RAM goes down to 40 MB and the phone becomes REALLY laggy and you have to restart
The above behavior is typical of windows mobile, and that is exactly why i shifted to Android thinking it is better.
My questions to the android experts out there are the following:
1- Why is memory leaking like this. Such a behavior results in a phone with very bad user experience
2- Is this typical behavior of Android, if yes then i'd better sell my Galaxy S and look for an alternative OS
3- Is this due to TouchWiz by Samsung, if yes then i will wait for subsequent updates to see if this problem could be resolved by Samsung
4- Will the 2.2 Froyo update resolve this issue ?
I used to have an iphone 3gs before this one, and no matter how much you open or close applications, the UI is always smooth and responsive. The thing that made me really hate Apple and its products is their "Closed OS" that does not enable you to do much with your phone. That is why i moved to Galaxy S thinking it would give me a better experience
Thanks for your thoughts.
FREE RAM IS A WASTED RAM, golden rule of android.
Some time ago I did even a video so you can check what i'm talking about... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewxuy12KuUA
Dexter666 said:
FREE RAM IS A WASTED RAM, golden rule of android.
Some time ago I did even a video so you can check what i'm talking about...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's an awesome video! I never knew the games looked so nice. I'm on a download spree because of that video now
Strange
Dexter666 said:
FREE RAM IS A WASTED RAM, golden rule of android.
Some time ago I did even a video so you can check what i'm talking about... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewxuy12KuUA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is quite strange, the less RAM you have the more non-responsive the phone is and laggy.
Enough RAM has to be maintained to guarantee a smooth user experience.
If the phone requires 100Mb of RAM to run smoothly, then this much has to be maintained.
from my experience with the Galaxy S, there has to be atleaset 80 to 100 MB to maintain a somewhat smmoth interface.
Edit:
I also understand from your input that this is a Samsung problem, not an android problem, and that no matter how low the RAM is, the interface will always be smooth ??????
Mate, just one word - google.
There are about a billion articles online on android memory management, how to impoove it etc.
Dexter666 said:
FREE RAM IS A WASTED RAM, golden rule of android.
Some time ago I did even a video so you can check what i'm talking about... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewxuy12KuUA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont understand how this shows anything? You are manually exiting each one of the games, forcing it to quit anyways. A better test is just to hit the home button, and continually load up the next game.
andy2na said:
i dont understand how this shows anything? You are manually exiting each one of the games, forcing it to quit anyways. A better test is just to hit the home button, and continually load up the next game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This means that after a couple of hours of using the phone, the RAM goes down to 40 MB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+red baloon on vid which says phone was used for >day, so "free" ram was <50MB, becouse browser etc. reserve some MBs for quick comming back.
And still was no problem to run anything I choose.
Dont quite understand..care to explain more? I'm getting puzzled abt this shortage of ram thingy. Some suggest to use task killer to free up rams while you say dont. But looking at your videos its fast..please explain. Thanks
Sent from my GT-I9000
Android handles the memory management itself. The moment it runs below certain amount of free memory it will start the kill apps. There is no need to run an app killer. Altho the default settings are not enough to provide a smooth experience. Check out the freememmanager app in the market to change the settings. As long as min 45 mb is free everything will run smooth.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
RADLOUNI said:
2- Is this typical behavior of Android, if yes then i'd better sell my Galaxy S and look for an alternative OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is typical Android behavior. See ya later.
Really though, if you're killing tasks, then you're already taking horrible advice from people who haven't an inkling of an idea on how Android manages memory.
Keep in mind that your phone is only using 256MB of its total 512MB of memory. Once a newer kernel is released with himem the phone will use all 512MB.
Android's garbage collection can be set to be more aggressive which would sort of fix your issue by killing more background applications. However, you might as well wait for the newer kernel which will fix your problem anyway.
Though it was more 320 out of 512
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
RADLOUNI said:
The above behavior is typical of windows mobile, and that is exactly why i shifted to Android thinking it is better.
My questions to the android experts out there are the following:
1- Why is memory leaking like this. Such a behavior results in a phone with very bad user experience
2- Is this typical behavior of Android, if yes then i'd better sell my Galaxy S and look for an alternative OS
3- Is this due to TouchWiz by Samsung, if yes then i will wait for subsequent updates to see if this problem could be resolved by Samsung
4- Will the 2.2 Froyo update resolve this issue ?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has to do a lot with Android's garbage collector. The reason task-killers are not the best way to go, is because when you kill tasks a lot of the memory is not recovered (garbage collector does not work as it should). Android by default won't start killing apps until you get between 20-30MB of memory. For some reason, in the SGS, as you said, when ram drops below 70MB, the phone starts to feel pretty laggy; the best way to remedy this is to use applications like autokiller or minfreemanager, which require you to be rooted.
For a more in-depth explanation of how android kills processes see this http://andrs.w3pla.net/autokiller/details (from the developer of Autokiller).
I would like to know why the phone feels so laggy when ram drops below 70MB, from what I understand, this shouldn't be the case...
2- Is this typical behavior of Android, if yes then i'd better sell my Galaxy S and look for an alternative OS
--> No, this is not typical behavior of Android, i use my HTC Magic before Galaxy S, no lagging problem even the memory is lower than 15MB.
The galaxy S defaults are too low for when it starts removing apps from RAM, you need to root it and then install minfree manager or autokiller (which is not a task killer don't be deceived by the name)
Brantyr said:
The galaxy S defaults are too low for when it starts removing apps from RAM, you need to root it and then install minfree manager or autokiller (which is not a task killer don't be deceived by the name)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
doesn't solve the mystery because this is a non-issue on other android phones.
why do i need to keep 50-70mb free to get a smooth running phone where others can handle 30mb free without problems.
Goshh..thanks for simplified. Now ive removed the task killer..and stand firm by the android golden rules...cheers..
Sent from my GT-I9000
I noticed this same low ram behavior on my galaxy s. After boot the phone shows like 180 mb of ram free after a couple days the phone will drop down to 30 mb of ram all the while I'm killing apps running in the background with task killer.
The phone slows down significantly even after I kill everything.i thought android was supposed to circumvent these kind of low ram Issues.
inurb said:
I noticed this same low ram behavior on my galaxy s. After boot the phone shows like 180 mb of ram free after a couple days the phone will drop down to 30 mb of ram all the while I'm killing apps running in the background with task killer.
The phone slows down significantly even after I kill everything.i thought android was supposed to circumvent these kind of low ram Issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is.
And you're supposed to not be messing with how Android manages things cuz taskkilling screws it up.
reuthermonkey said:
It is.
And you're supposed to not be messing with how Android manages things cuz taskkilling screws it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you suggest that I not force close any apps using taskkiller and just let android 2.1 do it's thing with memory management?
When I had the phone for the first week without taskkiller installed, the device ran very slow after the first couple days of use. Your saying that the slowness will go away as android dishes out memory effectively?
I'll uninstall taskkiller and let the device run longer than a week and see if it ever speeds up. thanks
I think many of us are using some kind of task killer. BUT, I find task killer sometimes cause more problem than it solves. And sometimes it doesnt really increase free RAM.
What I did was create a simple app to force Android memory manager to free RAM (by unloading tasks based on its own logic). This way you eliminate 3rd party task killer wrongful termination of tasks such as those active ones required by widgets etc.
This app just basically starts and creates a huge heap (forcing Android to free RAM) and then closes.
(You may still see this task linger in memory after you run it, but it will be unloaded the next time you start other app. You will see your free RAM increased a lot)
====Edit
You May not see free RAM increase immediately after running. You will see RAM increase a lot a bit later after you have started other app (which forces BfreeMem to be unloaded from memory)
Tip: Just put a shortcut on desktop. Click it when your RAM is low (<50-60Mb) and it will do its job. Dont run it when your free RAM is above 90Mb.
I'm trying it
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
This app should be tested by more Samsung Galaxy S owners to see if is working as it should be or not.
Try already.... No diff.... What's the difference?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
cosmoboi said:
Try already.... No diff.... What's the difference?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mib1800 already had got ur all private data, no more diffs.
cosmoboi said:
Try already.... No diff.... What's the difference?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to wait for BfreeMem to be unloaded. (If you are impatient use a Task killer to unload it and you see it frees up lots of RAM.
Basically BFreeMem is a very bloated. When it starts it force Android memory manager to unload other tasks to cater to its RAM requirement. After that if you start other app, Android mem mgr will unload Bfreemem thus freeing huge chunks.
I tweak it to works best if your free RAM is around 50-60Mb. When I run it and when BfreeMem is unloaded later, free RAM goes up to about 100Mb.
btw: this app requires no permission so your data is safe
AutoKiller is a much better alternative.
The concept sounds correct. Not entire sure if it will work in practice.
psychedelic'd said:
AutoKiller is a much better alternative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My purpose is to have something that does not circumvent Android memory manager which keeps track of tasks and their stats. It knows better what tasks are best to kill based on their usage/last access/active state/priority. Furthermore, if Android memory manager kill a task due to low memory, it will save the state for that task so that the next time that task is used the saved state is restored.
3rd party task killers sometimes mess this up by killing tasks which are actively use (resulting in those tasks being restarted just after being killed leading to wasted power and more lag) or killing dependent tasks such as those used by widgets without saved state causing widgets to malfunction.
snapper.fishes said:
The concept sounds correct. Not entire sure if it will work in practice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am using it. It does free up RAM. Is it useful? Depends. If you have lots of active apps (widgets/service etc), those freed RAM is filled up soon as Android restore back those "killed" tasks. Not much gain here. On the other hand, if you have lots of zombie apps lingering in memory then yes. The extra RAM does give a boost to the next app you open
AutoKiller is less of a task killer and more of a memory manager. Sort of like what your app is trying to do, but much better. More information: http://andrs.w3pla.net/autokiller/details
Your concept is good, but having an app that continually increases ram usage will waste battery. Then having to kill that app manually in order to free up ram is tedious. Just my 2 cents.
The new task manager in Touchwiz has a function to manually clear ram any way, which works great.
psychedelic'd said:
AutoKiller is less of a task killer and more of a memory manager. Sort of like what your app is trying to do, but much better. More information: http://andrs.w3pla.net/autokiller/details
Your concept is good, but having an app that continually increases ram usage will waste battery. Then having to kill that app manually in order to free up ram is tedious. Just my 2 cents.
The new task manager in Touchwiz has a function to manually clear ram any way, which works great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK. AutoKiller is changing Linux configuration. Unfortunately, it needs root.
I have used the TouchWiz TaskMgr clean Ram at safe level - it still messed up my widgets (Beautiful widgets, weather & toggle)
Bfreemem app does not continually run or increase RAM usage. You just run it when the free RAM is low (or close to threshold). At this low RAM level it just knocks other tasks out of RAM. btw: You should NOT run it when you have huge amount of free RAM. You should run it when RAM is low like <50Mb.
You dont really have to kill Bfreemem task manually since it will be quickly unloaded by the Android memory manager when RAM is required since its state is finished.
JUst put a shortcut on the desktop and click it when you feel RAM level is low and it will do its job.
Can it be used with autokiller?
It could be also automated to check if memory is low, and automatically kill applications. Battery drain would be present in that case tho..
Never has the default task killer from samsung messed up my widgets including Beautiful weather, I tried using task killer and never saw the benefits of it since andriod automatically keeps 40MB of free ram...
EarlZ said:
Never has the default task killer from samsung messed up my widgets including Beautiful weather, I tried using task killer and never saw the benefits of it since andriod automatically keeps 40MB of free ram...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I try the option Level 1 - Clear Memory (in Samsung task killer), my beautiful widget clock stop working.
Soniboy84 said:
Can it be used with autokiller?
It could be also automated to check if memory is low, and automatically kill applications. Battery drain would be present in that case tho..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I dont use task killer. Not sure whether Autokiller kills tasks physically or just adjust some running config. Just have a feeling task killers (those that kill tasks physically) cause RAM leak. For example when my phone reboot, I can see at least 12 tasks (in Advanced Task Killer) and free RAM is about 95Mb. If I physically kill those tasks, my RAM may temporarily goes up to 130Mb but sometime later free RAM drops to 50-60Mb and there were no more tasks to kill.
When I use Bfreemem, my free RAM fluctuates betw. 60-100 Mb and I can still see all/most of those tasks that were there just after boot-up.
If you have one of those scheduler/timer app, you can just use those to schedule Bfreemem to run regularly. (I can build another timer app to schedule)
Hello,
I recently upgraded from a hero which wad heavily tweaked thanks to this forum.
Now that I have tweaked the DHD to use evolution HD (great btw), I have a question about task managers etc.
People have said the built in management is much better etc etc. But how does it know when I have finished with a program? If it does not have an exit now button in the app will it effectively keep running? I used to use task killers just to kill everything after I have playing with the phone. Is this not needed?
Thanks for reading!
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
just leave it then
as you've got an DHD, you've really got enough RAM
so: if another process needs ram and nothing is left atm, android closes the one you left "running" some time before, etc..
don't use task killers...the integrated android "feature" does its work..for sure!
DN41
JLneonhug said:
People have said the built in management is much better etc etc. But how does it know when I have finished with a program?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because you haven't used it for a while
JLneonhug said:
If it does not have an exit now button in the app will it effectively keep running?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in the back ground yes, until the resources are needed
JLneonhug said:
I used to use task killers just to kill everything after I have playing with the phone. Is this not needed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it's not and this is where the problem arises, if android thinks an app is required, it will respawn it after you have killed it using uneccessary cpu cycles, and it will do this repeatedly every time you kill the process. As long as you haven't got a rogue process eating all the cpu cycles when it shouldn't task killers are not required.
Dont listen to people who say "uninstall your task manager it's not needed" its absolute crap, yes it is true that android's own internal memory manager does a great job on its own and yes having a task manager that kills task on some kind of schedule is just a waste of battery and resources, but if you need to run any kind of task that is resoure heavy it's imperative to have a task killer to free up some memory or that task could take forever. its also useful for playing demanding games ect. thats just my opinion anyway
ghostofcain said:
No it's not and this is where the problem arises, if android thinks an app is required, it will respawn it after you have killed it using uneccessary cpu cycles, and it will do this repeatedly every time you kill the process. As long as you haven't got a rogue process eating all the cpu cycles when it shouldn't task killers are not required.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats just not true, my device usually has around 110-150mb of free ram when idol, if i use a task killer i can get around 300mb of free ram, if i dont touch my device, it will stay at over 280mb indefinitely untill i start using apps again .......
NO TASKILLERS!!!!!....They mess up with your system + drain your battery + will leave you posting more on xda.....
AndroHero said:
thats just not true, my device usually has around 110-150mb of free ram when idol, if i use a task killer i can get around 300mb of free ram, if i dont touch my device, it will stay at over 280mb indefinitely untill i start using apps again .......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which benefits you how? Android isn't windows it doesn't run smoother because it has huge reserves of memory sat around unused, yes if you kill everything and leave your phone on idle it may well free up a huge amount of memory, but start using it and it will respawn important processes. For the undecided her'e some further reading Lifehacker, geekforme, Androidspin, Infoworld, talkandroid, tested and the last word to Google.
Even Windows doesn't run smoother if there's lot of unused RAM. Even though the makers of those RAM "optimization" tools will tell you different. RAM is there to be used. Free RAM is like having your money in a sock under your bed instead of getting interest from it.
On my DHD Android will start killing background apps when the free RAM drops below 40 MB. And what more do you need? Why is 150 mb free RAM better than 40 mb free RAM? If an app needs more than 40 mb the missing RAM will be freed up almost instantly. I doubt anyone will notice. And almost no apps use 40+ RAM anyway.
And to those that are absolutely convinced background tasks eat their battery. That's wrong in 95 % of all cases as well. A background app that does nothing also uses no CPU = almost zero battery usage. So no harm done. And a background app that does something mostly does so because you the user told it to do so. What eats battery is the display, setting the brightness to 25 % or so really help. But that's offtopic...
ghostofcain said:
Which benefits you how? Android isn't windows it doesn't run smoother because it has huge reserves of memory sat around unused, yes if you kill everything and leave your phone on idle it may well free up a huge amount of memory, but start using it and it will respawn important processes. For the undecided her'e some further reading Lifehacker, geekforme, Androidspin, Infoworld, talkandroid, tested and the last word to Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i understand that, but what im saying is SOME application and games (av suites, emulators eg psx4droid and fpsce, games like dungeon defnders ect) they generally require more ram to operate than the minimum android will leave free, so in thoes curcumstances, it is usefull to have a task killer to free up enough ram for thoes tasks to run optimally, i did a experiment the other week, and it took my av suite 17 minutes to do a full scan with no memory optimisation and 11 minutes to run after using a task killer, are you seriously telling me using a task killer once or twice a day will use more battery than leaving the phone scanning for an extra 6 minutes? also all these sites you quoted, i agree having a task killer on a scheduled auto-kill basis is a waste of time or battery, but people came to the conclusion not to use task killer 12-18 months ago when there were very few high powered devices and resource heavy tasks, now there are more and more apps that require a large amount of ram to run optimally..
AndroHero said:
yeah i understand that, but what im saying is SOME application and games (av suites, emulators eg psx4droid and fpsce, games like dungeon defnders ect) they generally require more ram to operate than the minimum android will leave free, so in thoes curcumstances, it is usefull to have a task killer to free up enough ram for thoes tasks to run optimally, i did a experiment the other week, and it took my av suite 17 minutes to do a full scan with no memory optimisation and 11 minutes to run after using a task killer, are you seriously telling me using a task killer once or twice a day will use more battery than leaving the phone scanning for an extra 6 minutes? also all these sites you quoted, i agree having a task killer on a scheduled auto-kill basis is a waste of time or battery, but people came to the conclusion not to use task killer 12-18 months ago when there were very few high powered devices and resource heavy tasks, now there are more and more apps that require a large amount of ram to run optimally..
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yeah but 12-18 months ago 512mb ram was a dream for most of us. I don't think the main issue with task managers is extra battery usage it's the unexplained anomalys with programs FC'ing or plain not working because some automated task killers has over zealously shutting down important services
ghostofcain said:
yeah but 12-18 months ago 512mb ram was a dream for most of us. I don't think the main issue with task managers is extra battery usage it's the unexplained anomalys with programs FC'ing or plain not working because some automated task killers has over zealously shutting down important services
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exactly, when people started saying dont use task killers, devices had very little ram, but on the other hand applications required very little ram, things have moved on now, and with more powerfull devices come more powerfull applications, and although i agree with having a task killer on an auto-kill schedule is a waste of time, i think its useful to have one for thoes time you want to run a resource hungry app, but you know like they say YMMV
Thanks for the replies, it makes sense now.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
The title is basically the question, im fed up of alot of programs auto opening on my android phone, it takes battery and is slightly annoying receiving notifications off apps i dont really care about such as the NFL game tells me about small things in the NFL, im in the UK, i dont care.
If you argue that it doesnt take alot of battery currently have 117mb free ram, (2 secs later) killed all my selected apps now have 201mb free so im using 80mb of ram on apps im not using. Ive made 2 or 3 phone calls today no more than 30 mins long altogether and ive lost 55% of my battery since about midday, which is when i unplugged the phone.
And I think all these apps are the problem so how can I stop them from auto opening, please help
Search the market for startup cleaner
Sent from my A101IT using xda premium
yusuo said:
If you argue that it doesnt take alot of battery currently have 117mb free ram
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Click to collapse
More free RAM doesn't really equate to longer battery life or lower power consumption.
Better search for auto starts, this asp shows you the conditions an asp can turn back on and you can bin it off, Facebook for example had like 8 conditions, from full to medium battery life, on charge and change in network....... Use it
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium
rootSU said:
More free RAM doesn't really equate to longer battery life or lower power consumption.
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Click to collapse
There's still no reason for most of this apps to use RAM. Apps like facebook and skype shouldn't be actice without user permission. Without login they are complete useless.
I'll try Startup Cleaner, thx.
It's how android works and what RAM is for. There is always a reason.
Sure if someone doesn't use Facebook, it should be uninstallable, but its not and its not causing any harm
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
The problem isn't that apps start when I turn on the phone its that even after i use task manager to close they keep reopening and use over 100mb of ram, earlier I checked and only had 78mb ram available.
This must have an effect on battery to some degree i want to kinda ban certain apps from running in the background unless i specifically tell them to
RAM doesn't use more power, the more its used, no.
You don't need a task killer. You do not need to obsess about RAM. Forget about RAM and enjoy your phone
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
rootSU said:
RAM doesn't use more power, the more its used, no.
You don't need a task killer. You do not need to obsess about RAM. Forget about RAM and enjoy your phone
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
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Thanks for you reply but its not really an answer its more of a contradiction, what I was asking is how to I stop apps from auto starting and eating up RAM, regardless of how long the phones been on
...and I'm telling you its a pointless, unecessary waste of time. Also it is not possible. Autostarts as already mentioned is the closest you'll get
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
I also turned off the autorun permissions of a lot of apps, for 2 reasons: 1) a device that is smooth sooner after booting, using less cpu cycles/power. 2) preventing Sense from reloading due to RAM shortage and have smooth multitasking.
1) Android loads a bunch of apps to the RAM that have the autorun permission, until it thinks it is "enough" and useful to you. No matter how many apps you have installed, the amount of free RAM is always about the same, just the number of "unwanted" apps in the RAM differs. Removing the autorun on boot permissions prevents the loading of unnecessary apps that will immediately be removed from the RAM the moment you start the browser/a game, saving cpu cycles=power. So for me there is no point in loading them in the first place, because I am never going to use them (right away). I want the apps that don't to any syncing loaded on demand.
2) I hate slow multitasking and I hate it even more when Sense reloads because it got kicked out of the RAM after each time I press HOME.
I use 3G Watchdog (~12MB RAM), Unlock with Wifi (~8MB), Whatsapp (~15MB), Handcent SMS (~18MB), Droidstats (~13MB), Extended Controls (~12MB), Battery Monitor Widget Pro (~13MB). Okay, I maybe could delete some of them, but these app are "OK" to me, because I use them actively or just need a background service to operate normally.
With Gemini I disabled apps like Facebook, a screenshot tool (just load when I want to make a screenshot..), various public transport planning tools, etc from autostarting.
No joy moment: after using the Facebook app (market version), it may take up 50+ MB and it will not be closed when I start another RAM intensive app, because it is a high priority service. Result: Sense gets kicked out of the RAM. Or, when the situation is somewhat less critical: multitasking is as good as unusable: switching between apps makes them load over and over again, because app2 kicks app1 out of the RAM and vice versa, causing unnecessary lag. Therefore: when I am done with facebook, I close it, then STAY the hell closed It may only autostart when it receives a push message. In that case it is nice to have FB already in RAM when I tap the notification.
Why do even some games have background services, or the Engadget app, or .. , or... all eating precious RAM. And yes, I know, once IN the RAM they eat no battery, but they DO eat battery when the app loads itself back in the RAM when it thinks it needs to, after it got kicked the moment I decided to so something else.
Hmm, spent way too much time to try to explain my frustration Oh and by the way, I have a Legend, but the basics are the same of course.
Dwnload an app called internet commander from the market. It shuts off the internet when your screen turns off but still let's you get calls and texts. I've got my phone , rooted of course, clocked to 710 and my battery will last for days.
Sent from my Eris using xda premium
I just re read your post, that won't help with apps but it will help save battery. And when you turn your screen on the internet kicks right on instantly. Good luck
Sent from my Eris using xda premium
yusuo said:
The problem isn't that apps start when I turn on the phone its that even after i use task manager to close they keep reopening and use over 100mb of ram, earlier I checked and only had 78mb ram available.
This must have an effect on battery to some degree i want to kinda ban certain apps from running in the background unless i specifically tell them to
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The guys here have already suggested you use a certain program from the Market. Have you tried it?
Regarding the whole RAM consumption issue, Android has its own built-in memory management system that ensures that there's always enough RAM for an app whenever it needs it, even if the memory manager shows like 40 MB free. Basically it "ejects" all background, unused apps, from memory making room for the foreground app which needs it most. If for some reason you need to fiddle with that, you can try using the V6 Supercharger script. I find it suitable for my needs but YMMV. It's completely reversible, so if you don't like it you can uninstall it just like that.
P.S. - I agree with rootSU, the ammount of free RAM has nothing to do with battery consumption. If you suspect that an app is draining your battery, check Android's battery statistics to find the culprit.
TVTV said:
Regarding the whole RAM consumption issue, Android has its own built-in memory management system that ensures that there's always enough RAM for an app whenever it needs it, even if the memory manager shows like 40 MB free. Basically it "ejects" all background, unused apps, from memory making room for the foreground app which needs it most. If for some reason you need to fiddle with that, you can try using the V6 Supercharger script. I find it suitable for my needs but YMMV. It's completely reversible, so if you don't like it you can uninstall it just like that.
P.S. - I agree with rootSU, the ammount of free RAM has nothing to do with battery consumption. If you suspect that an app is draining your battery, check Android's battery statistics to find the culprit.
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Click to collapse
I respectfuly disagree. Android built in ram management is just silly. If I open xda app for example (it could actually be any app for that matter), reply to a few posts, read a few more and close it, why does it need to stay in ram? It reloads anyway when I run it again after I've closed it (using the back button or the actual exit command in the app itself). Why does the camera app need to stay in the background after I just shot a few photos and closed it? Because I may or may not use it again in some time? It's rediculous. And the whole theory that ram management doesn't require any power/cpu usage, how do you guys think all those apps get killed? Android will power?! No, kernel scans all running apps and kills the ones based on built in heuristics so it also reads them first. So that doesn't require any power/battery? Awesome if it's true! Although I wouldn't bet on that. And all this fuss just because you may or may not launch the same app sometime during the next day/week/month/year or it'll eventually get killed? Now that's just plain stupid. I get apps that need services like widgets, push notifications etc. but random apps like root explorer, xda app, titanium, youtube etc. which are opened specificly by the user shouldn't be in ram just for the sake of it after they're closed. I closed it, meaning I don't need it anymore. And I don't need the kernel to scan all apps and running services every time I launch an app so it could provide the free ram that app needs. Consumes cpu time, battery, i/o ... every piece of hardware actually just to free some ram that shouldn't be occupied in the first place. Every app that I ever opened on my phone got loaded almost instantly and that's just after phone had been booted. So after that it should stay in ram so I could open it in a blink of an eye instead of instantly? That's just funny.
Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud so don't flame me immediately. There probably are apsects of it that I didn't mention here or am not aware of. And I'm not saying that I'm right and you guys are wrong, I'm just saying what I know and think about this subject.
-. typewrited .-
PlayPetepp, while it might be true that the OS allocates (thus use) some resources to memory maintenance, the impact on battery life is negligible. In the Android OS, apps in memory are ordered according to priority and state, so the OS always knows which apps to kill first if it needs to make room in RAM, without much of a hassle. The only bad consequence of this system seems to be the fact that once the memory fills up, the launcher may lag or even be evacuated from memory. But, as i've mentioned in my previous post, there are ways to prevent that, either via scripts or, if you know what you're doing, via editing system files.
So the OS doesn't need to scan anything as it keeps everything in memory again? Seems like an endless loop. Open, sort, kill if needed, reopen, sort again, kill ... to what end, constant unneccessary multitasking that user is unaware of? I really don't see any benefit of that system and am only seeing the downsides. I mean, who needs every app they ever run remain in ram even if they close them after using? And then opening another app and "waiting" for whatever needs to be closed to get it running. Sure you can mess with the scripts (init.d, init.rc, etc.) but the underlined conditions stay the same. I hope I'm making sense here. Or am I fighting against windmills.
I just figured out that I strayed from the topic of this thread so won't be continuing this discussion if it's considered offtopic.
-. typewrited .-
Stop looking for excuses for poor multitasking in Sense 3+ roms
erklat said:
Stop looking for excuses for poor multitasking in Sense 3+ roms
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Hello again nice to see you here
Here's an interesting article on what I was talking about. Sense 3.5 doesn't need that many mbs of ram to work smoothly. After booting and setting everything up I have 150+ mb free. That should be enough for decent multitasking but all those apps not getting killed when you close them are eating too much. Can anyone explain in detail what hidden app, perceptible app, backup app and heavy_weight app means? I've been googling this for a week and can't find any decent explanation.
@PlayPetepp - I think i have already said (in my previous post) that the OS does indeed use some resources for managing the memory, but they are negligible in terms of their impact on battery life. IMHO, the only thing a 3'rd party memory manager (task killer) WILL do is improve lanuncher responsiveness (lag) as the lag does increase when free RAM drops under a certain limit. Thus used wisely, a task killer can improve responsiveness, but battery life... very little, in rare cases (it does the opposite, most of the time).
Regarding the so called "memory slots", here's an excerpt from this article:
FOREGROUND_APP: This is the application currently on the screen, and running
VISIBLE_APP: This is an application that is open, and running in the background because it's still doing something
SECONDARY_SERVER: This is a process (a service that an application needs) that is alive and ready in case it's needed to do something
HIDDEN_APP: This again is a process, that sits idle (but still alive) in case it's needed by an app that's alive and running
CONTENT_PROVIDER: This is apps that provide data (content) to the system. HTC Facebook Sync? That's a CONTENT_PROVIDER. So are things like the Android Market, or Fring. If they are alive, they can refresh and provide the content they are supposed to at the set interval. If you kill them, they can't of course.
EMPTY_APP: I call these "ghosts." They are apps that you have opened, but are done with them. Android uses a unique style of handling memory management. When an activity is ended, instead of killing it off Android keeps the application in memory so that opening them again is a faster process. Theses "ghost" apps use no battery or CPU time, they just fill RAM that would be otherwise empty. When this memory is needed by a different application or process, the RAM is flushed and made available for the new app. To satisfy the geekier people (like myself) Android does this by keeping a list of recently used apps, with the oldest apps in the list given the lowest priority -- they are killed first if RAM is needed elsewhere. This is a perfect way to handle 'ghost' processes, so there's no need to touch this part
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Click to collapse
Ok so I was running an app to check on CPU speeds (unrelated research) when I noticed that this same app was saying I only had 340mb of RAM free...
This seemed a bit strange, considering this tablet has 3GB of RAM on board, and I'm not really running anything at the moment.
I went into the storage setting page, and looked at running processes, and it says that I am using 2.5GB of my RAM.
but... if I add up all the ram usage on all the running processes, it only adds up to about 500mb....
So what is using up the other 2gb?
If anyone has any suggestions, it'd be nice, as at the moment it seems I only have 1gb of usable RAM in this device...
EDIT:
Nevermind, I think I solved it... sort of. I found that the ram clearing button is in a different place than I remember, and I have managed to clear out some more space... though even after a full reset 1.5gb of ram is immediately being used. Seems a lot.
Though this is a stock rom etc so I suspect thats normal.
electrical tcfpain
nirurin said:
Ok so I was running an app to check on CPU speeds (unrelated research) when I noticed that this same app was saying I only had 340mb of RAM free...
This seemed a bit strange, considering this tablet has 3GB of RAM on board, and I'm not really running anything at the moment.
I went into the storage setting page, and looked at running processes, and it says that I am using 2.5GB of my RAM.
but... if I add up all the ram usage on all the running processes, it only adds up to about 500mb....
So what is using up the other 2gb?
If anyone has any suggestions, it'd be nice, as at the moment it seems I only have 1gb of usable RAM in this device...
EDIT:
Nevermind, I think I solved it... sort of. I found that the ram clearing button is in a different place than I remember, and I have managed to clear out some more space... though even after a full reset 1.5gb of ram is immediately being used. Seems a lot.
Though this is a stock rom etc so I suspect thats normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You probably aren't using all 2.5GB for actual running programs.
Windows 7 does a great job of managing money. If it has any unused memory it will hold often used programs or data in memory in case it's needed. If a running program needs that memory it's quickly shifted. Otherwise when you reopen that program you recently closed, it may load quickly from memory rather than from the drive. I suspect Android does things similar.
Modern systems programmers consider "free" memory to be wasted, so they put it to the best use they can anticipate. That gives you the benefit of all memory as often as possible. If they only allowed the memory to be used for what's needed right now, your Note would only have about 1 GB memory, and would be considerably slower.
It's a little like having the cook wash your car while waiting three hours for the turkey to cook. You get both the turkey and the car wash.
jnichols2 said:
You probably aren't using all 2.5GB for actual running programs.
Windows 7 does a great job of managing money. If it has any unused memory it will hold often used programs or data in memory in case it's needed. If a running program needs that memory it's quickly shifted. Otherwise when you reopen that program you recently closed, it may load quickly from memory rather than from the drive. I suspect Android does things similar.
Modern systems programmers consider "free" memory to be wasted, so they put it to the best use they can anticipate. That gives you the benefit of all memory as often as possible. If they only allowed the memory to be used for what's needed right now, your Note would only have about 1 GB memory, and would be considerably slower.
It's a little like having the cook wash your car while waiting three hours for the turkey to cook. You get both the turkey and the car wash.
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I'm guessing you mean android, not windows 7
Though I imagine both do the same thing lol
nirurin said:
I'm guessing you mean android, not windows 7
Though I imagine both do the same thing lol
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Click to collapse
I used Windows 7 as an example because I know how it works. Like you, I imagine Android 4.3 does the same thing.
I was wondering about this as well. On my Note 2, when I clean the ram, it will go to 480-500 / 1.75g on this tab, ext I could get is 1.33/2.75.......
I went through and turned off a lot of the apps, it helped free up a little bit.
Does anyone have a list of the apps that are safe to turn off?
:beer:
Sent from my SM-P600 using Xparent Cyan Tapatalk 2
I have LTE version with Snapdragon and when I start the tablet, it uses about 890MB of 2,35GB available (yes, it has 3GB RAM, but graphic processor uses some of this RAM)... When it loads all apps to RAM (about 50 of them, we know android do this) and I start few apps(FB, Gmail, Chrome, Hangouts for example), I still use only about 1,3GB of RAM... So almost 1GB is still free
In Android having too much free ram is not a good thing. Let your apps use it, you don't have to worry about not having enough ram, OS manages it well for you.
ddavtian said:
In Android having too much free ram is not a good thing. Let your apps use it, you don't have to worry about not having enough ram, OS manages it well for you.
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Click to collapse
+1
Android is a mobile OS which means that it can backup and restore not needed apps if necessary and the 3GB are only the runtime memory beside this it can use the whole internal memory for "running" apps. So long Android got enough memory it holds all apps in memory which speed up the whole device. Therefore it is positive that the Note use his whole 3GB memory and don't think that killing apps or free memory will be a good idea. It will slow your device and produce lags.
ddavtian said:
In Android having too much free ram is not a good thing. Let your apps use it, you don't have to worry about not having enough ram, OS manages it well for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Elim said:
+1
Android is a mobile OS which means that it can backup and restore not needed apps if necessary and the 3GB are only the runtime memory beside this it can use the whole internal memory for "running" apps. So long Android got enough memory it holds all apps in memory which speed up the whole device. Therefore it is positive that the Note use his whole 3GB memory and don't think that killing apps or free memory will be a good idea. It will slow your device and produce lags.
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Click to collapse
They are both right. Android is based on linux. Linux uses ram very effectively to cache apps and data to speed up your system. When something needs ram it removes a different app or data from the ram to keep moving. It works totally different from Windows. Check out this article.
http://www.androidcentral.com/ram-what-it-how-its-used-and-why-you-shouldnt-care
Every day since Android came out someone asks this question somewhere... Is Google offline?
Sent from my SM-P605 using XDA Premium HD app
If you want to change how your ram is managed, and you have root, you can use the v6 supercharger or a simple minfree setting app. V6 is in the developer section of the general android forum on this site. I've found that m ram fills up from cached apps. V6 will let you auto clear however often you want.