Related
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of view that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
I recently looked at a thread where someone asked a question that was answered somewhere else. Three members jumped on the bandwagon to flame to poor sod. Another member jumped in to defend the fact that people should be free to ask questions.
In the end, there were 12 replies to the question that, in that thread, was never actually answered.
12 posts just to discuss the relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered.
Most forums I have been a member of have some very strict views on staying on topic. This reduces the flaming which seems to do more 'cluttering' damage that questions that have been already answered.
So if I have a question, I will STF only to find 42,000 topics on the same thing that don't actually answer anything, but discuss the "relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered".
If the members, who should know better, stayed on topic then people would be able to readily identify the good threads more easily and not feel it nessesary to ask again... and again... and again.
So... Instead of flaming n00b questions that have allegedly been answered before, why don't the members of this forum look in the mirror and...
STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Note that I have posted this where I think this kind of discussion belongs... (i.e. not in any of the threads that actually deal with meaningfull discussions about phones).
Let the flames begin...
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
BaggyG said:
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of few that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
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STFU noob.
ok, I jest... but seriously, it did reach breaking point and something had to give... fortunately it's unwinding itself now.
Also to be fair to long time members though, every time a new OS version is out, the place is flooded with n00bs that usually don't even take the time to look at the threads presend on the same damn page.
It's beyond lazy, it's just ignorant to expect people to wipe their arse for them even if the toilet roll is right there in front of them.
Sometimes help is warranted and they get flamed, but when upgrading these expensive devices, they should take the time to understand more about it
Perhaps we should have an aptitude test before allowing access to the forums hehe.
shogunmark said:
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
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Gee... Hermes forum? How'd ya guess
I tried STF for a thread on this, but couldn't decide what to search on: n00b? Flame? Agro? Dummy spit? Ignorant?... So many choices
But okay... I've had my say so I'll pull my head in and get back to my life.
By the way... Great forum and wiki. Very helpful and informative.
Baggy
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
While I think it's important to encourage all members (yes I've seen a few senior members asking things that have been previously discussed in the same thread) I think the whole attitude about it is wrong. There's really no need to get all pissy about it, and much less calling people "noob". Really someone that goes off on a noob rant can't have much of a life in my opinion. We are all busy -some more then others- and we really don't want to waste time answering redundant questions, but isn't going off on someone and calling them a noob an even worst usage of our valuable time? besides..... who really gives a rats ass about getting called a noob.
In closing, if you feel a noob is bothering you, ignore him and he might eventually get the point, or behave like a human beign and help the guy out. However, as BaggyG says don't turn the damn thread into a name calling fiasko. One 20 word post asking a question is not as irritating as a 500 word essay on the stupidness of noobs.
GAMBIT999 said:
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
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since i dont frequent the prophet forum's and im not sure who our active mod(s) are for prophet, if you would let me know what threads need to be moderated i will be more than happy to flex my muscle in there.
and actually on that note....
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
shogunmark said:
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
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Just wondering if it would be possible to put an announcement or sticky on each forum identifying the mods for that particular forum.
Just a though...
Baggy
Damn. I saw the title and thought "Man, that'd be fun!" and everyone in here is complaining about it? (joking).
Seriously though it is a problem. But everyone here can do something about stopping it. I mean, if you know there is a solution to the question they asked and it's somewhere else in the forums, give them a link and tell them how to find these answers. If you don't know exactly where it is, tell them what forum to search. At the very least, say nothing. When people only read the last page of a thread it is very annoying but those are best ignored. There is absolutely no need to publicly flame someone and waste even more space on a thread.
I'm currently working on a bug tracking system for new roms so hopefully that will reduce a lot of these kind of questions by keeping answers with the questions and moderators and chef's being able to easily delete repeated posts.
It's just a bit of common courtesy which is as sadly lacking as common sense at the moment unfortunately.
Maz
http://maz.net.au/
one of the other things is the sheer VOLUME of replies, in the Hermes section, there are over 250 replies in a couple of threads! not meaning to sound lazy, but that is a hell of a lot!!!
of corse i'm reading them and reading repeat after repeat of questions that are the same.
Its great when the #1 topic poster goes through the posts and copies soloutions to problems and presents it in the 1st post!
hmm think thats covered just about everything on my mind
*gets flamethrower out*
Flamin' time =D
kiddin'
Y'all have to admit. Some of the "senior" members here have this god complex.
Once they manage to have their devices run unofficial stuff - even if it isn't their own work, and they were just following simple instructions, which don't really take much work once you get down to it - they think it gives them every right to go Bastard Operator From Hell to just about anyone else.
I guess it's pretty normal for unofficial channels, innit - I see the same kind of folks in emulation and driver forums. Not to mention linux and hardware boards. But some of the "ascended" here ought to remember that they didn't start as gods, and may not really be that much of a "god" after all.
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
No, dozen responses that don't answer the question are not the solution, but hey everyone needs to went somehow.
levenum said:
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
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I agree. There's WAAAAYY too much "how do I. . ." posts in the forums when all the information is already there for READING. More stickys at the top of the forums won't solve the problem, because the ones that are there WITH the information are not being read by the noobs even now.
It's really sad for me to see the direction that this board has taken in the past year. When I first registered, it was an AWESOME site with LOTS of users developing useful tools and apps to make these devices even better . . . a place to share ideas and to try out the cooked ROMs.
Then, we had an influx of new users about 6 months ago that simply couldn't -- or WOULDN'T -- search for answers before posting. Now, the board is so bloated with those useless posts/threads that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
While I still come here daily to check the General section and the Wizard section, I don't do much posting and only read the threads of general interest to me. I'll help where I can on answering questions -- but only if they haven't already been asked a gazillion times before. I still look for the tools and apps from the developers here to keep tweaking my phone to get the absolute MOST out of it, and I've flashed more ROMs from this site than Quaker's got oats. -- and all without asking "how do I. . ." or "I've bricked my phone. . . " because I READ THE INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!!!
It's really that simple. All you have to do is READ and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS -- step by step. Don't skip a step or leave anything out, and it works!!!
that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
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As much as I see your point, I have only 2 words to say. "Vicious Cycle".
I'm also a noob but i dont care because i know my options, first do a search ( which by the way is pratically unusable, but not only here all foruns have this problem), but in a community so big it´s comprehensive cause sometimes the answer to the problem is two threads bellow or in the next page, but no let´s open another thread asking the same thing, and i know that such attitude will lead to saturation of the older members.
The answer is simple if someone is in the mood answer if not leave it, until the users realize their options to search for things this will never end.
I'm glad to be here because above all it's a learning place for the ones who enjoy this platform and the ones who just like to know about varied stuff.
Cheers and have a nice weekend
yes thanks everyone for all thr help and advice. Keep it up!
Peace out
Registration fees
To alleviate the amount of worthless posts and to give something back to those that dedicate so much time and effort to this forum (rom cookers, admins and mods) why dont we add a registration fee to this forum?
Just a thought, but I would happily pay an annual fee of 20 eur / 15 GBP for this forum.
Searching
I think that quite a lot of the problem is with how difficult it is to get answers out of the forum search facility if you're not used to it.
Could it be possible to add a dumb-ass version that's the default?
There have been no end of times in the past when i've been searching for info on upgrading and I have to trawl through hundreds of irrelevant posts (most of them telling people to go to other posts that don't have the right info on them).
Also, back in the day there was a lot more info on the wiki section relating to the upgrading/modding etc but now (understandably given the number of devices available) the information only seems to be in the forums.
I like the idea of having a sticky in each thread listing useful articles on common topics. I bet no one will bother to read them though.
I still think my library illustration I gave over at TC stills says it best.
We all know the library is full of info on so many things you could want to know. And we all know what's expected of us in a library; go find the book on the subject. If you have trouble finding the answer, then ask your question.
I think where so many go wrong is thinking that they can just walk in to the library and start asking questions from whoever just happens to be there, rather than first trying to find the answer for themselves in the variety of books available.
And what's wrong with someone who at first was a noob - asking repeated questions - and then learning what's expected of them, and then expecting the same from others? You got told to be quiet in the library, at first you were offended, and then began to realize the benefit, and then inturn expect the same from others.
I really don't expect people to figure it out. Call me a pessimist or call me a realist.
Oh, by-the-way, have you noticed that this kind of topic always results in long, drawn-out posts?
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
It saddens me
I was a bit disappointed hearing this from a marvelous developer such as you are but I believe you are not evil because you have tried your best to bring us the best out of our devices
Please do reconsider...
I hear what you're saying, mate. I lurked around this place for over six months before making my first post, just reading up and learning. People don't want to read anymore...they think that this place is the instant free tech support center.
djboo, I don't agree! Most of the threads in D&H subforum are developer or constructive threads. This is not an easy thing to accomplish, and I think it shows the quality of the forum. You can't disable access to "noobs", developers make their stuff for everyone, not just other developers or experienced people! I'm glad if other people like something I make.
Partially agree...
djboo said:
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
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I partially second that, although I think that membership seniority based on number of posts isn't the best practice if to implement what you proposed. As I, for example, don't post a lot but read the forum for almost 2 years, and have dev. background (and I guess there a lot of others like that), there are some that post a lot of questions and/or comments that are not that dev. inclined or do not have the knowledge (yet?).
I do see your point here, and me too stopped following the TF3D thread after tons of non development related issues. Maybe putting Dev/Hack as read-only and people would have to ask a mod / admin for posting rights on it? And then giving full access to the Q&A thread / new section? So devs. could enjoy it more, general community could still get the latest (downloading newer version from Dev/Hack, etc.) and get questions answered in an orderly fashion... BUT, what with those nice little apps people write and post here from time to time, that come from someone that is not THAT involved in the community? They'd simply go elsewhere, and I guess this IS the most valuable asset the community have. With all due respects to the "regulars", I think those that pass by once in a while and contribute are
invaluable too. Guess it's the price to pay for innovation, having to sort through the non-sense to find the gems.
In the end, I think the problem here are the filters we use. Maybe we just need to find a better way to organize the data here, so it's easier to follow... What I do hope, is that whatever is done, doesn't change the essence of this great oasis...
I kinda agree with ur second part but i'm sure someone would have told the mods if it was a "dangerous app", rite?
I am a noob
Ok, I understand quite well what you are saying. Being a noob myself, i am learning as much as i can, slowly but I hope surely.
I try to read thoroughfully each thread that I have interest in.
The only regret I have is the search engine. For example, I'm still searching for a thread where it explains how to modify spb mobile shell files to have PI8 as the default calendar. I know the intel is there somewhere, but I'm having a hard time to find the right post/thread.
So maybe one of the possibilities would be to enhance a little the search engine or the way results are shown => enlighten the searched words...
Please reconsider, don't be to hard on the noobs, I think we aren't so bad, some of us want to learn.
And thank you very much for your patience, talent and ideas.
I do agree too that there is too much "I like that.... whats it for?" when a lot of the time the developers do put the information in their posts. BUT..... sometimes these STUPID, RANDOM comments do contribute by putting an idea out there to be expanded on. Sometimes they provide needed feedback and ideas.
If you restrict access to these areas then you may as well shut down the site.
This is a forum and as such there will ALWAYS be those annoying clueless posts but you have to remember that you were once there yourself...
You have to make allowances for those members who DON'T speak english very well as they may be very tech savy but just have difficulty putting their ideas down in English. They may actually give something back..
And thats my 2 cents
hi all
in fact there was a section missing , here , for asking
seems they are doing something very soon , reading the sticky thread
Here
and so the D&H will come back to be free for real dev
djboo perhaps you are a little hasty in this thread and I agree with some of what you say, however, alot of ppl respect everything you and other developers give us immensely! without ppl like yourself alot of us would never use Windows Mobile devices, instead following the masses of other "mind washed" CrApple iphone uses, anyway please don't stop sharing just because a few mindless teenagers didn't get enough Oxygen at birth!
people make their own choices. if you post something which might trigger a brick and someone uses it you can blame him for either trying something without investigating first or for just being plain stupid (depending on the circumstances).
the fact that this section is a target for terrorist idiots action isn't different from any other internet or real forum in the world. people tend to go wherever's warmer and cuddle there.. and try to suck every little ounce of good they can find in that place.
that's why you can find thousands of stupid posts and questions instead having a clear, professional section. not using search, not being able to read rules before posting.. that's international.
as for restricting... I must disagree to the proposal. it would require more work from the dev to find the members he'd like to share this with instead of just posting his work. and being a senior member on this forum means NOTHING considering it depends on the number of posts you have rather on how long you've been around or how much you have contributed to this community.
but what i do suggest is, that a member will have to be at least X months old in this forum to post. this will make people use search and learn before they come up with stupid questions.
cheers.
As a link above has p[pointed out, there is a new forum coming for questions. If you really have a problem with some of this noob questions, PM a mod/report the post.
Also, if you want to post a thread as an announcement, rather than a questions/answers thread, PM a mod to get it locked.
If you don't let new members post, they will never find anything out.
One final thing: you yourself have posted this in an area in which it doesn't belong. It has nothing to do with Development or Hacking, it's about what happens in this forum. As such, I'm going to move the thread to the "About xda-devs" section.
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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that man said it better than i ever could.
l3v5y said:
If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
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i dont want closed developing. i want developing. currently the main thread in question is more like doing lines for teacher. once a day, log in, "HTC-CA drivers disable shutdown, TF3D uses those drivers. use manilatoggle to disable TF3D before you power down" x10
djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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djboo... I understand where you are coming from, but I also do not totally agree with your comments. Although I may be a noob, I do have a lot ov experiance in computing. I do not have the time to develop of backwords engineer apps. I wish I did. I would enjoy doing it. I agree with you that the thread owner should be able to delete posts that are off topic, but I think the thread owner should also move a question with an answer to the first page if they see multiple posts. This would make it easier to find some of the common answers. I agree that users should use the search, but it does not always return what you are looking for. I have made a post and been berated for not using the search (when in fact I had). I truly enjoy the work you and the rest of the developers are doing. Without you guys, my phone would be quite boring, but because of the work done on this site, I am quite happy with my phone and how it operates. I have friends that think I am a god because I help them with thier phone, but I would not be able to do half of what I do if it were not for the work done here. I hope you go back to work on Manilla3D. We noobs need the knowledge you provide. As for off topic posts such as the nes on the Manilla3D thread, a lot of them go on due to people endulging these people by answering thier post or flaming them. I have seen senior members do this and all it does is fuel a lot of these guys. Ignore them! Geez, I have had my ligidimate questions ignored, why not ignore the non-ligitimate ones? Anyway, I will get off my soap box. I appreciate everthing all of you developers do and I hope one day I will have the time to contribute to the development community. Take care.
It is possible to set up a "thread owner" or thread based permission system but it would take some work and more importantly a Vbulletin developer to iron out the issues that may come up.
I have tried it on one other site but it was a little difficult. Of course I think a more productive idea is to have developer groups. Vbulletin has a group system built in as of 3.7 and it allows for comments and such. In 3.8 it will allow groups to have their own message boards. With a little help you can set up 3.7 to also have message boards controlled by the owner of the group.
DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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djboo said:
that man said it better than i ever could.
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Yup that's why it's in my signature under XDA Mantra.
This is meant to be a reminder to all of you. I ask that you pop in the Q&A section as often as possible to help answer questions by members. If we all do that, a significant % of the questions will be answered sufficiently.
Thank you
I hate to be snide, but uh, that section is useless for whats in it. Really. Its like the "General G1 forum", posts get lost in there. There are a LOT of topics in there that should NOT be in there for general, and they dont get answers (not as many) because they are in a random place. Like these for instance:
Code:
Messages will not be erased after soft reset (WM 6.1)
O2 XDA Exec Won't Power On after Unccessfull ROM Upgrade
[WM 6.5] 2 quick questions...
movie player for wm 6.5
6.5 enhancement disabled
Need help with G1
Those are on the first and second page, and they do not belong in there. They have little to no posts because they are "lost". They need to be posting in the forum dedicated to the phone they are having questions/problems with, not in a 'general' section.
Now dont take this as attacking you, no you didnt make the forum. But, for people that [if there are any] control the design, they should not have made that section, or it needs to be moderated better because those topics should not be there.
I went in there to 'help out' as per request, but I couldnt because 80% of the topics are like I mentioned above, ones about specific phones to which I cannot help with.
Not to you, but out loud: Organization is a little dissorganized around here.
My 2 cents.
I've been moderating the Q&A section for a few months now, and no one has ever told me he can't find anything. I answer about 50-70 questions there per week. there are many other people like timmymarsh, joel2009, rudegar, orb3000, deedee, denco7... and more.. who help out on a regular basis. a large % of the questions are answered. I encourage people to post questions regarding specific devices in the dedicated forum, but i'd rather have the Q&A section flooded than all device specific forums.
Most questions are more windows mobile/shell related rather than device related..\
You will also notice, that most questions regarding specific devices are related to non-HTC devices, which we don't support anyways.. so these are just a "if you get your answer.. great" threads.
just help out with what you can and it will be highly appreciated.
The whole point of the Q&A forum (IMO, team can correct me if I am wrong) is somewhere for people to ask questions that are short and simple (after searching of course). You ask, someone answers, people move on. It is organised in it's own way and leaves the device forums free for everyone else
Dave
DaveShaw said:
The whole point of the Q&A forum (IMO, team can correct me if I am wrong) is somewhere for people to ask questions that are short and simple (after searching of course). You ask, someone answers, people move on. It is organised in it's own way and leaves the device forums free for everyone else
Dave
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yup. this is exactly it.
thanks for clarifying, Dave
there is also a GUIDES thread over there which i implored people to donate to (donate=writing additional guides) but until now i got got like 1-2 guides from other members.. and the rest were written by myself.
Im sure you guys hate me because I keep going at it, though I just feel either I need to end up seeing your point(s) or you see my point. And I apologize for that. Back to what I was saying:
The whole point of the Q&A forum (IMO, team can correct me if I am wrong) is somewhere for people to ask questions that are short and simple (after searching of course). You ask, someone answers, people move on. It is organised in it's own way and leaves the device forums free for everyone else
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Though I understand what your saying Dave, I honestly still do not see the point of that forum...atleast with the random posts like I meantioned earlier. Thats how posts get lost.
This topic was created, why? Because supposedly not enough topics are getting attended to. Why is that?
A. The forum is in a random spot to begin with (I actually didnt even know it was there until this topic)
B. On every page there are quite a few "specific" type questions that unless those with the "specific" knowledge look, could only answer. (and it would seem there arent enough of them...)
Also I know if I had a bricked phone (which there are some topics in there like that), I wouldnt want non-experts to tell me how to fix my specific problem. It could make it worse. Allowing 'bricked' topics in a 'general' forum to me is like allowing a chevy owner asking how to swap an engine in a honda forum. Do you think thats smart? Thats asking for more problems. The noobs dont know its a bad idea, but allowing it says its ok.
Rename the forum to "Random Q/A for All Phones", that would make more sense.
Sorry if I seem like im nagging here. I dont intend to. I just feel a dis-oreiented forum is unneeded. Keep the specific questions for the specific forums, thats why they are there (not to keep them free ).
____
As for the guides:
The windows mobile sticky just seems to not fit again. The rest (including the one by you nir (very good btw), all fit. What should be done is this: Make a new category called Phone Operating Systems, and put Windows Mobile in there, then put that random sticky in there. That seems to be what is missing, is an operating category. WM/CE, Android, Symbian, Blackberry OS, Nokia OS, and (probably not necessary at all but is one) iPhone OS [yuk].
That would make things a bit more organized as well.
I laugh, you guys always say search. Why is that? Because things are hard to find sometimes because people dont search. Never 'rely' on people to search, its the worst staff can do. I know this. You have to make it the EASIEST to navigate as possible, because people are lazy to search. Oranizing=less clutter=less work for you guys. All works out for the best.
theslam08 said:
This topic was created, why? Because supposedly not enough topics are getting attended to. Why is that?
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It's not because there was a massive amount of unanswered questions... (We're not a support desk, we don't have targets ). It's because there was not a place for new users, with less knowledge than most, to post quick questions. People on the site needed general device question and answers (not device specific). These were mostly asked in the D&H forum which became very cluttered with random questions, flame replies. D&H is too popular to support quick questions, so Q&A was a way to tidy it. You're quite right when you say you would not want someone helping you unbrick your device who doesn't know it, and I wouldn't expect someone to post in Q&A if they did (I maintain the Kaiser Unbricking thread BTW ). The Forum caption on the Index says: "This forum is for all questions, big or small, you might have. Please read the rules in this forum before asking.". The Q&A rules are here : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441333
I think it is good for the lesser experienced users to ask questions about apps / settings, and in time, searching Q&A will yield some good answers to questions.
Hope this clears things up a bit
Dave
EDIT: Off to bed it's 1am, I'll try and answer anything else tomorrow
i agree
i can see the point of the forum, it helps us to help them it directs the quesiotns away from other forums that are not for questions
and its beeen running for a fair while and ive helped (ill forgive you for forgetting me nir) and people appreciate the help they get
and as for having non experts fix bricked devices
if youve bricked it then youve been doing something you shouldnt have been doing (from a legal stance) so giving it to the experts would be foolish as i know for a fact the can charge extra for doing flashes
FYI ive read and asked questions and ive never bricked a device once EVER
im not saying i never will, but if i do ill blame myslef as ill have not followed directions
You're right. i apologize for forgetting. there are probably a few others whom i've forgotten as well.
i was only kidding ive not been there as much as i used to lately then i decided to learn how to cook
I'm running SkyRaider 3.0 Vanilla RC3 on my Inc w/2.6.32.15-g5e1ad8b [email protected] #1 and today I got an Update Notification from VZW. I have read that rooted/ROM'd devices are not supposed to get, nor should they, install these updates... what should I do? How do I make it go away? Thanks...
antmarching.41 said:
what should I do?
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don't install it
antmarching.41 said:
How do I make it go away?
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don't know about that, but posting in the correct section might make it stop
How do these topics keep popping up? There's a damn Droid Incredible Q&A forum!
antmarching.41 said:
I'm running SkyRaider 3.0 Vanilla RC3 on my Inc w/2.6.32.15-g5e1ad8b [email protected] #1 and today I got an Update Notification from VZW. I have read that rooted/ROM'd devices are not supposed to get, nor should they, install these updates... what should I do? How do I make it go away? Thanks...
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Head to My Droid World and ask, the members there don't jump down your throat for asking a question. Yes we all know you "Pros" lose a little of your soul each time someone who isn't in your league of Android superiority asks a question you already know the answer to, but really, your constant responses berating people who ask questions, "Let me Google that for you", "Search NAO!", etc, are more annoying that people asking a question that may have already been posted.
It seems many people forget how and why forums were created....to share information regarding a common interest. People use these forums to learn, and it is a great tool for it. Now sure, I agree people should do a little search before posting, it saves everyone time, but there really is an overwhelming amount of information out there, and a lot of it can be contradicting. There should not be a problem with people asking for a clear, updated answer. Also, many times when people are new to the development world, some of the answers out there just don't make sense, or aren't perfectly clear to the askers specific situation.
I recently sae a post by the Admin at AndroidForums(I think, it was a big Android site tho) directing their mods to not do this. To remember that all members should be welcomed, and there is no need for condescending attitudes towards people asking questions. Also, the people at My Droid World are the same way...they are willing to help, be it a Android vet or a "n00b". I know XDA could be considered an "advanced" development forum, but if you don't allow new members in and pass the knowledge along, it's just an elitist club rather than a community forum. There is no "community" in these kinds of attitudes.
And really, what good is "Google is your friend", "Use the Search", and related type responses. Obviously it is an ego thing, consiously or not. It doesn't help the person asking, and does nothing for the person answering, beside making them look like a jerk. Especially the people whining about having to waste so much time responding to duplicate questions. The simple answer is to NOT respond. But then their superiority isn't known to everyone. If you don't wanna help the OP out with an answer or link, and having nothing worth mentioning on the topic, just move along. Don't waste your precious time, that is obviously more important than the rest of ours, and simply move along.
Anyway, to the OP, I came here looking for similar info as well. I am using Skyraider Sense, but having the same issue. There is one thing I have noted tho. I use my DInc as a "backup", so there is no service on it. I then turned off wifi thinking that I would not get the update requests, but I still am. So I was wondering if the requests are originating locally, and if so if there is a file that could be deleted to stop the requests. However, I believe that even tho I don't have service, Verizon can still peach my phone and send me updates. There could be another explanation as well lol. But anyway, if I find anything out I will let ya know. If you don't find any answers here, check out My Droid World.
You hit the nail on the head. It would take no longer to respond with an answer (if you know it and don't just wanna appear to) as it does to appear as an all knowing elitist android asshat.
Not everyone on here eats/sleeps/dreams android, but like prob 60% or more of the people on here are journeyman or lower gadget freaks that like to play around with the newest stuff for there phone/toy.
I for one have tried many a time to find an answer to a prob I have but find it daunting when some of the threads get 100+ posts added a day.i end up dealing with the issue I'm having, doing a nandroid restore, or just changing roms b/c I don't wanna see the flame fest ill prob get for asking a question that might have been answered already in a thread with 4000 posts....
Grift said:
You hit the nail on the head. It would take no longer to respond with an answer (if you know it and don't just wanna appear to) as it does to appear as an all knowing elitist android asshat.
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Trust me when I say that these forums are anything but elitist. Also trust me when I say that evenly applied moderation would go a long way toward making these forums more productive.
Look around; do any developers (not ROM chefs!) actively visit XDA any more?
nobody told the op to search.
it doesn't take an android wiz or forum guru to read the rules and post in the correct place.
jimmypopulous said:
Trust me when I say that these forums are anything but elitist. Also trust me when I say that evenly applied moderation would go a long way toward making these forums more productive.
Look around; do any developers (not ROM chefs!) actively visit XDA any more?
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This coming from someone who over half of his posts are nothing more than bashing blackdroid or other forum members, how does that help the community? Posting in the correct section makes it more productive. How hard is it to post a QUESTION in the "QUESTION & ANSWER" section?
I told him not to install the update because it would make him possibly lose root and other things. I told him I did not know about the other half of the question that he was asking, but that it would be much better if he asked it in the proper section. (and if you can't take a little sarcasm over the internet... i don't know how long you will make it in life)
I'm sorry I posted in the wrong section... Months ago, when I found this site I bookmarked the "Droid Incredible Android Development" thread directly. I didn't think to click back one link to the "HTC Droid Incredible" thread to see other sections... I have done searches before, but spend WAY to much time sifting through post after meaningless post. I don't have hours to spend reading threw thousands of posts to find an answer...
I did find a resolution though without the help of anyone here... using ROM Manager, I dl'd the latest Virtuous ROM = problem solved.
At least I know now where to post a question... thanks for that.
g00s3y said:
This coming from someone who over half of his posts are nothing more than bashing blackdroid or other forum members, how does that help the community? Posting in the correct section makes it more productive. How hard is it to post a QUESTION in the "QUESTION & ANSWER" section?
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Whoa, I'm in complete agreement with you.
RE: Backdroid - one would thinly there would be agreement amongst community members that his brand of dishonesty and disingenuous mea culpas would be unwelcome.
The WinMo threads I used to lurk on here aactually contained development (read: coding) talk. The Android subforums seem to be all about clamoring for themes and conflating ROM cooking with development. I expected a similarly articulate set of users here.
Moved to Q&A as not development.
Posting questions in the right place keeps everything organised, and makes it easy to find people needing help.
Don't post questions in the development forum, and remember to search thoroughly before posting. This kind of thing regarding OTA updates is addressed in virtually every device forum on XDA.
Finally, finish with the flaming guys.
Okay, the time has come where I must ask.
The Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G came out in September of 2012. Since then it has quickly become the most requested phone of all time in the new forum request thread, gained an 80+ page thread in the G2 forum filled with information on how to unlock and hack the phone, and through the hard work of members trying to co-ordinate their efforts without an official way to communicate, gained an unlock method, a hacked recovery, and a functional CM9 ROM. Despite this, it still has no forum of its own. In fact, the threads that been instrumental in the work that's happened so far have recently been locked, making further developments much more difficult.
So I ask you, what on earth is the holdup?
I came to the Relay 4G from the Sidekick 4G. That was a phone that had great hardware, but due to a lack of support from Samsung, and a lack of development here, never got past the Froyo ROM it launched with. Now we've got a phone that looks like a worthwhile replacement for it, and people working on it, but they can't share their work here or connect with other people who could help. It feels like I'm being let down for the second time. First by Samsung, now by XDA. I'm afraid of this continues, development for it is going to trail off sharply as well once the phone loses it's newness. And I'd hate to be stuck with another phone with terrible software support. After all, I'm not the sort of person who can afford to casually buy a new smartphone every few months. And given how popular that thread was, I think we can safely say there are a lot more people who are eager to see this phone succeed.
I hope someone who knows what's going on can comment on this. I've worked on the board of a non-profit, so I know all too well what happens when a small number of people in control don't communicate with the larger membership. You've got a large group of people who are feeling let down, or outright angry right now. They're in the dark and upset and distrustful. And in the absence of reliable information, people are very good at spotting patterns, be they real or imagined, and turning them into very strongly held opinions. Speculation runs rampant. Then it doesn't take much to go from "Something happened" to "There's a conspiracy." And it can take years to get past the perception that something malicious went on. I urge you guys to communicate now and nip this one in the bud, before it blossoms into an ugly mess.
Any development which has been done for the Relay 4G can be posted in the Miscellaneous Android Development forum.
As you can notice just from looking down the first pages of that forum, those devices which don't have their own specific forum can have development projects posted there instead.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
We get that there is a misc development forum. There are already development threads there for the Relay. Our issue is that we had a discussion thread in the G2 forum for so long, with well over 800 posts, as well as threads in various other QWERTY phone forums. Nobody seemed to object to its existance there, and then out of nowhere we get a simple "off topic to this phone" reply and thread closure. Said thread deserved the decency of being moved to an appropriate forum, and now we have no idea where to discuss our device.
We are essentially lost with no explanation. The moderator I messaged gave me nothing more than a "we could have moved it, but nobody would know where. Do you expect me to pm every user?" I was then told that it is standard procedure to just shut a thread down. But one that big, where for so long nobody seemed to mind?
You. Will. Obey. XDA Premium - Samsung SGH-T699
pudgybunnyBry said:
We get that there is a misc development forum. There are already development threads there for the Relay. Our issue is that we had a discussion thread in the G2 forum for so long, with well over 800 posts, as well as threads in various other QWERTY phone forums. Nobody seemed to object to its existance there, and then out of nowhere we get a simple "off topic to this phone" reply and thread closure. Said thread deserved the decency of being moved to an appropriate forum, and now we have no idea where to discuss our device.
We are essentially lost with no explanation. The moderator I messaged gave me nothing more than a "we could have moved it, but nobody would know where. Do you expect me to pm every user?" I was then told that it is standard procedure to just shut a thread down. But one that big, where for so long nobody seemed to mind?
You. Will. Obey. XDA Premium - Samsung SGH-T699
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Can you pm me a link to that thread please. I'll find a home for it somewhere.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Thank you so much, it really is appreciated!
Where is this thread? I can't find it