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Is winmo7 gonna be the end of winmo development here at xda? It's totally new, and its gonna be really hard to port it to existing winmo phones, and its a lot more locked down...
I was wondering the same thing after watching the press event video, which is why I came here to see reaction.
As long as there is a registry it hackable... I feel sorry for HTC or cannot customise their phones to have a unique selling point over other OEM's
It seems MS have built it for the sole purpose of cracking the "consumer" market. Looks incredibly pretty and i'm sure it will "work", however, whether it will be as appealing to the xda-dev community is another question!! A bit too early to say it's the end, but just from viewing the promotional videos, I can see my love for Android growing further!!
windows phone 7 has got me quite excited.. looking fwd to use it come december 2010.
I think you're right that it's just too early to tell. I hope you're right about the registry/hackable comment, though.
I am wondering would Microsoft be so stupid to create almost a totally new OS. If they do, i believe there will some sort of migrator to migrate apps to the new os. However i am seriously disappointed if they decide to remove mutiltask.
6.5.3 will remain alive and well for enterprise and developing markets, so even if we can't port winmo 7 there will still be updates to 6.5. Either way, MS has pretty much destroyed new app development for 6.5, as many of the major players will probably wait to develop exclusively for 7. I'm definately excited about 7 though; in the meantime it looks like android will be your friend if your looking for apps.
I think it will be a new beginning. However, the new SDK will likely be based on WPF or Silverlight, so the .NET knowledge of the current developers can be applied (however, WPF has IMHO a steep learning curve) and some code can be transferred. Game development will likely be based on XNA (you can already create Zune XNA games).
The big question for me is: Is publishing/installation of new applications as easy as it is currently the case? The worst case scenario would be a mandatory marketplace and you have to pay a fee to get your application added. However, I think that Microsoft will be going a developer-friendly way, because the third party applications will make or brake the OS.
The worst case scenario would be a mandatory marketplace and you have to pay a fee to get your application added.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly what's happening...
i just hope, that the multi billion dollar companies, make everything in the phone work the way it has to, and not wait till some regular people on this forum turn the phone into a good device.. seriously, i buy a WM knowing that its crap, just cause i know that here on XDA i can fix it and make it how i want it...
I just hope m$ has not gone the apple way blocking all development !
that will be a really really sad day on XDA.
Too early to say.
First few leaks should arrive some months hence.
irdawood said:
As long as there is a registry it hackable... I feel sorry for HTC or cannot customise their phones to have a unique selling point over other OEM's
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you didn't paid attention to what was said in the conference.
They said, on top OEM's can customize it to add their experience to it. So HTC and other can customize it, but not to the extend of WM 6.5's case. That's because to give a consistent experience to us ( users ).
Please don't get into conclusion's without understanding what was said.
well here's a video
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-and-impressions/
yerand said:
Is winmo7 gonna be the end of winmo development here at xda? It's totally new, and its gonna be really hard to port it to existing winmo phones, and its a lot more locked down...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no dev's have even gotten their hands on this yet. How the heck would you know what's possible with is and what's not?
Well, it is new, Microsoft stated that it has more restrictions, and its pretty much a brand new os, because microsoft also stated that its built from the ground up, therefore its like porting android to a winmo phone. It has very little of its older winmo roots.
ibsa03 said:
i just hope, that the multi billion dollar companies, make everything in the phone work the way it has to, and not wait till some regular people on this forum turn the phone into a good device.. seriously, i buy a WM knowing that its crap, just cause i know that here on XDA i can fix it and make it how i want it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with u the reason i bought my htc fuze and sold my nokia phone was because i love how cuztomizeable wm is and even if they become like apple there is always android
But wasnt there supposed to be an OEM version of Windows Mobile 7 that could be customized by third party's such as HTC? From what I saw of the press coverage, we were just seeing the "interface" much like titanium and Touchflo.....but who knows....
semmtexx said:
no dev's have even gotten their hands on this yet. How the heck would you know what's possible with is and what's not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may well be that it is the most easy to crack ever, However, i dobt that
@Microsoft, WHY!!!???! if i wanted an consumer OS, i would of purchased an iBrick
Why not kill 6.6, make 6.9 with the winmo 7 kernal and code in some .NET support and let HTC work it's magic
Badwolve1
for a long time, the older phones (wizard old) have been able to run the newest versions (6.5.3). i think this is gonna end development on those old phones. hopefully we will get it to run on the new phones like the hd2
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=5475&tag=content;col1
As HD2 owner I am dissapointed.
Again!!
But its just a spokeperson.. so we can't track the source... wich makes it a rumor..
Who cares what someone says at microsoft......they keep saying "No No No" like Amy winehouse....... HD2 can support it with EASE.
The reason why they say "No" is that microsoft has promised manufactuers that NEW OS equals Great Sales.....extacly how they did with the VISTA series !!!
What ever I say to microsoft......they like it or not....WE WILL get WP7S on out HD2 phones.....I love XDA !
One of the main reasons I got the HD2 was that I thought it would be upgradeable... I'm still hoping that it'll happen, one way or another.
I'm passing on the HD2 just beacuse of this reason I got my TP2 and when the HD2 came out I said I would just wait to see what WM7 is going to look like before I upgrade. I'm glad I waited. Guess you guys should have done the same. No one nows if porting to the HD2 will be possible yet so I wouldn't get too excited.
vardig said:
The reason why they say "No" is that microsoft has promised manufactuers that NEW OS equals Great Sales.....extacly how they did with the VISTA series !!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Existing hardware on desktops is upgradeable and Microsoft even gave free updates for systems purchased within the months leading up to release.
It's funny how they still leave the door slightly open with their statement.
The first device that has WP7 on it (as long as it doesn't suck) I'll be buying. My Touch Pro is due for retirement.
if you have read the article you will clearly see that the Microsoft spokesperson said that they currently dont have plans to update the HD2...key word being currently. but WP7 wont be out until around christmas....so curruntly they may not have have an update, but by release time they might. sometimes u have to read in between the lines...its something they are deffinatley working on, because if they werent, they could just give a straight answer instead of beating around the bush.
as a owner of an hd2 I would he dissapointed but I am really positive about this for simple reasons. i may be wrong about this but still ill say my opinion .
as a lot of ppl have seen on YouTube there is a video of someone from Adobe with hd2 with flash 10.1 and a (new kind of IE) which according to me is available on wp7s (according to MS a renewed browser with pinch to zoom )
BTW the home button of hd2 can somehow be reprogramed as the search button.
ok on YouTube you see the start menu but you don't see him opening the browser.
as i said I may be wrong but its my opinion.
Guerrilla Milli said:
the Microsoft spokesperson said that they currently dont have plans to update the HD2...key word being currently
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the key word is "don't".
Yeah when someone says they currently don't have any plans it means they aren't going to do it unless it has a major effect on their business if they don't.
really?
Then that means all the 6.X device can not update to windows phone 7 severies !
Hope some oone could tans 7 to 6.X.
I am waiting
If nothing could do to refresh i will think about android or other os.........
Kloc said:
I'm passing on the HD2 just beacuse of this reason I got my TP2 and when the HD2 came out I said I would just wait to see what WM7 is going to look like before I upgrade. I'm glad I waited. Guess you guys should have done the same. No one nows if porting to the HD2 will be possible yet so I wouldn't get too excited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really... I'm really annoyed that I, (probably) won't be able to get the new OS on my new 'phone, but let's not forget that the HD2 is still one kick-ass mobile, and I am still seriously impressed with it.
The only thing that annoys me is the amount of people who, on seeing my phone for the first time, say "Ooh, is that an iPhone"
mr_lindy said:
as a owner of an hd2 I would he dissapointed but I am really positive about this for simple reasons. i may be wrong about this but still ill say my opinion .
as a lot of ppl have seen on YouTube there is a video of someone from Adobe with hd2 with flash 10.1 and a (new kind of IE) which according to me is available on wp7s (according to MS a renewed browser with pinch to zoom )
BTW the home button of hd2 can somehow be reprogramed as the search button.
ok on YouTube you see the start menu but you don't see him opening the browser.
as i said I may be wrong but its my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really have no idea what you're talking about, mate.
what a fail...and right before tmo usa will launch their touch hd2...i wonder how this will impact sales. I know I won't switch fully to tmo because of this and unless there's a beta on xda developers very soon, I will not go to touch hd2. I will wait
domineus said:
what a fail...and right before tmo usa will launch their touch hd2...i wonder how this will impact sales. I know I won't switch fully to tmo because of this and unless there's a beta on xda developers very soon, I will not go to touch hd2. I will wait
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm definitely waiting. I was thinking about upgrading to HD2 but I'll just stick with my Touch Pro2 til the holidays.
I've wanted the HD2 from the second I put my eyes on it. It's everything I wanted in a phone minus the slide out keyboard, but the screen size made me willing to bypass that. Then I saw Windows Phone 7 and realized I wanted it on my HD2. Not being able to have it on the HD2 is surely making me reevalutate my future purchase of the tmo HD2 which is released on 3/24.
I may not get the phone at all and I really find that to be a sad thing for myself, HTC, Microsoft and TMobile USA.
Not a huge disappointment. I love the HD2 the way it is. WM 6.5 with HTC Sense does a very nice job in everything I need and use the phone for.
What I don't need is a closed OS with a lot of eyecandy (well, one can argue about that) and xbox integration. Microsoft can state "everything what ppl care about directly at the homescreen" as often as they want. But what I actually care about is efficiency on how I can use the phone. And having big colored blocks on the screen for every possible program/contact/bookmark/pictures/appointment etc. is neither very efficient, nor very effective ...
So glad I didn't wait
chalid said:
Not a huge disappointment. I love the HD2 the way it is. WM 6.5 with HTC Sense does a very nice job in everything I need and use the phone for.
What I don't need is a closed OS with a lot of eyecandy (well, one can argue about that) and xbox integration. Microsoft can state "everything what ppl care about directly at the homescreen" as often as they want. But what I actually care about is efficiency on how I can use the phone. And having big colored blocks on the screen for every possible program/contact/bookmark/pictures/appointment etc. is neither very efficient, nor very effective ...
So glad I didn't wait
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... I should have waited for a good Android phone instead of the HD2.
I'm not at all interested in the dumb iPhone copycat OS that WP7S is. Good UI, but other than that, they've just copied Apple's bad bad policies (out of envy, I think).
I'm not going to adjust myself to an OS that doesn't multitask, doesn't let me install the stuff I want because of Marketplace censorship, doesn't let me manage my files on my own etc.
With Android, like WM6.5, I can have an OS that simply does what I want it to do. I don't have to adjust myself. That's how it should be.
Thus, the only regret I have is that I've not waited for a good Android phone, because WM6.5 is doomed and now nobody will develop anymore for it, whereas the quantity AND quality of the applications on Android has now surpassed Windows Mobile, and the OS itself is almost there.
I'm not sorry either... I change my phones every year - as flashy and useful and nice as they are, they don't last as long as $50 Nokia dumbphones did.
I use my HD2 very heavily and, apart from increased tear, this toy is much more important to me than a regular phone. As such, it absolutely needs to be the best toy around.
Also, the earlier I sell my phones, the more money I'll get.
I love it and enjoy using it for the most part, but by the end of the year I'm sure there will be devices available that I'll want more, and the love affair with HD2 will be pretty much a thing of the past.
Finally, even though I like what I see as regards to WP7, I'm not at all sure it will have the essential apps I need or that it will live up to the promise in its v.1 incarnation.
Android... I can't force myself to like either the OS or the phones carrying it. Yeah, they have multitasking and all, but I'm not buying a principle, I'm buying a phone.
vangrieg said:
Android... I can't force myself to like either the OS or the phones carrying it. Yeah, they have multitasking and all, but I'm not buying a principle, I'm buying a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So Android buyers buy a principle?! Nonsense... they buy Android phones. Simple as that.
And of course, they buy them because they prefer them to other phones.
And of course, Android's features are reasons to prefer Android phones to other phones - and multitasking, for example, is one of them.
I don't like Google, I don't like Java... but if Google's OS is the only one to suit my needs, then I buy a Google phone. Because I'm not buying a principle (i.e. not Google or not Java), I am buying a phone (i.e. the phone that does what I need it to do).
Hi Everyone,
I'm very worried about all I've eared recently on coming WM7
No cut/paste
No multitasking
No Storage card management
And a MarketPlace build on the Itunes-Jail-Model...
So my question is :
Won't we do something to stop that ?
Would someone start a petition saying that if Microsoft keep going this way, we'll all move to Android !
Maybe I'm just dreaming, but if XDA display this petition everywhere, we might grow fast and make some noise. It's not too late.
What do you think ?
from what I heard everyone at MIX10 loved WP7, as the majority of people will. We are just bunch of freaks. Even XDA camp is split up, at least half of people dig it as well.
It is high time WinMobile moved forward. Donno if Windows Phone 7 is the way to go, but I think the WM interface never really worked when touch screens came in.
As for opening it up, well I agree MS should make it as easy as possible for people to develop for free. Unfortunately it probably won't be, at least for a good while yet which is huge shame.
MS will want to make money from it, and gain market share and for now that means locked down with Apps Store route. Hopefully they will open it up for free developers in time or they will never gain anything over the options.
Won't we do something to stop that ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you think they WANT us to TALK about it, until REAL thing will come out...
It looks like weird advert campaign.
But funny, that people who bought their HD2 were simply fooled.
Few millions there, another there...pure FUN.
Honestly, I'd say there's roughly zero chance of XDA or anyone else being able to change Microsoft's mind on these issues prior to WP7 launch. They thought long and hard about all these things and know some of the decisions will make a certain amount of developers and tweakers unhappy, but really they're focused on creating a revolutionary UX, and to do so they need to control certain things more than before. If you've seen the demo apps from MIX hopefully most will agree it's worthwhile pain for the expected gain.
Microsoft isn't turning it's back on the WM dev community though - the tools for developing on WP7 are excellent (so long as you're already doing managed code at least), and now all free. It's impressive the things you can do with Silverlight/XNA/Blend on WP7.
Richard
Man, i much more worrying about that there isn't a release for the Leo, because it has too much buttons (what an idiot reason!!!!). I bought my Leo for wm7. I veryvery disappointed in microsoft. I going to move to Android!
Man, i much more worrying about that there isn't a release for the Leo, because it has too much buttons (what an idiot reason!!!!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..because this is not a reason.
This is game about getting attention.
Very, very strange way of advertising, to be honest.
They are sure, that people will buy ANOTHER 500+$ device just to get their feeble bs. Ridiculous.
(personal opinion).
-------------
I bought my Leo for wm7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Name it, lol. This is exactly same thing as Kaiser and its drivers(if there is someone who remember these times - users were told they will get DRIVERS...yeah, right - people did not learn, i assume).
I am not against progress - I am against stupidity and fooling people.
g'night.
pupakota said:
I am not against progress - I am against stupidity and fooling people.
g'night.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I agree, there is so much available which is good for wm5, wm6 etc but wp7 with new start should open up even more possibility of graphically rich and media centred experience. In theory that is.
Look at the development between wm5 and wm6, hardly anything in how long? Hopefully it will be updating interfaces only for wm7, spb and htc have both realised that people want more eye candy than wm could provide.
I love windows mobile but I like the iPhone package, only because it appears to work. But I wouldn't buy an iPhone because there might be an app for everything, but with wm there's a free app for everything. (Although not when big companies forget about wm!)
If WP7 is free to develop on, using MS tools, then fingers crossed the draw of fast fancy graphics and features will bring back developers from iPhone only apps. No doubt MS will extract their pound of flesh first but hopefully it won't end up locked down like the iPhone.
Then again, there may only be fancy graphics in WP7 and no substance or power left for anything else, but without WP7 don't you think WM would end up being shelved (and where would the little apps go then? somebody think of the apps). Perhaps Android is the future!
Also, why do they hate hardware buttons, give me a D-pad back please! If want to flick my fingers around I'd take up tiddlywinks.
im sure WP7 will be quite a success, you need to remember that most phone users are not enthusiasts like us. What the general public want and what we want are very different criteria. See how popular Iphone is!
I see no problem with WP7 not having
No cut/paste
No multitasking
No Storage card management
there is already WM 6.5 that does have these things and there is no wait until its released because we already have it.
Maybe in the future when no more WM 6 devices are produced we will have a tough choice on picking a new device, or maybe people will cook 6.5 for the WP7 handsets (upgrade with older version ha ha)
There is nothing we can do. Even if whole xda makes petition or something, who cares about some stupid forum where geeks want do to something?
Also, why do they hate hardware buttons, give me a D-pad back please! If want to flick my fingers around I'd take up tiddlywinks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more. Im suprised that they allow QWERTY.
Also where is competition here? What can phone vendors do to make their phone better? Most stuff is already standarized, so there will be bunch of same devices on market.
Personally I think they're taking all of the flexibility and breadth of applications away from the platform and moving towards the pointless "There's a crApp for that" mentality.
I won't be looking for a phone until towards the end of the year, I'll be taking a serious look at Android and WebOS at that time I believe.
MS won't change it's mind no matter what, they are trying the Apple approach, at least we still have Android, too bad cuz I loved WM...
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
dicast said:
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well if they do mess up wm, then think what the combined effort could do with Android instead!
Seems everything nowadays (Not just Windows Mobile) is all about moving towards "locking things down", taking away the control from the regular people ala iphone style... and people seems to just accept it with a smile on their lips.
Companies are trying to control everything their employies (correct english?) do, trying to prevent them to use facebook at work and logs everything they do online... Seriously, what the f^** is going on??? Why not implement internet filters all over the world aswell? Buy the technology from China!
Soon when microsoft have killed windows mobile, android will be the only option for me at least...
Maybe Windows Phone series 7 or whatever they call it will be a huge success, but it's not windows mobile anymore, ok it's finger friendly but the OS will be as restricted as China itself. WM the way we like it will soon be history...
I will enjoy the freedom while it lasts and stick to current wm until I'll switch to Android...
khaytsus said:
I won't be looking for a phone until towards the end of the year, I'll be taking a serious look at Android and WebOS at that time I believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read WebOS is going bye bye. Palm will be switching to Android. Shame. I never used it but from what I've read it had great potential.
I am indifferent to WP7 till i use it myself. I am not upgrading anytime soon and am waiting for a the next step up from the Rhodium(in all aspects) be it an Android or a WP7.
WP7 will take time to work out the kinks. It might not cater to everyones needs at first but I have faith that it will one day be something only Fanatics and Apple Fanboys will hate. <GARTH>"We fear change!"</GARTH>
@ owziee
++1
Hope that, all of you guys, have signed the petition...
Of course it won't change Microsoft'sMind.
But "Who doesn't do, doesn't get"
It starts there....
dicast said:
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you imagine MS will do if no one buys WP7S? WP7S is the last roll of the dice. If it fails, MS will get out of the mobile device market completely.
Except that it will hardly happen, general public couldn't care less about jails and even breaking them.
I guaranty there will be loads of people who will buy it because they want xbox live and zune on their phones and I reckon I'll join them as I'm getting fed up of phones that suddenly start becoming stuttery randomly, or has bugs that I have to end up waiting for an operator to release their branded version of a to ROM fix because I don't want to void my warranty and basically I don't get the time to endlessly flash new ROMS these days.
But I'll still be hanging onto my WM6.5 HD2
here is a howto on activating your live services
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10566003#post10566003
don't post here but on the other thread .
Damn, Craigslist here I come. The HD2 is awesome.
This is amazing... Only thing that would scare me is Microsoft finding out. We've seen how strict they can be with their policies, especially taking actions towards your Live account on Xbox... So I'd hate for this to lead to some accounts becoming suspended or penalized for using "hacked consoles" in a way...
Other than that, this is great... This is why I keep my older phones... Of course this is no use to me, but it gives HD2 users new life... Let's see how many of them stop bashing WP7 now that they have it
FiyaFleye said:
This is amazing... Only thing that would scare me is Microsoft finding out. We've seen how strict they can be with their policies, especially taking actions towards your Live account on Xbox... So I'd hate for this to lead to some accounts becoming suspended or penalized for using "hacked consoles" in a way...
Other than that, this is great... This is why I keep my older phones... Of course this is no use to me, but it gives HD2 users new life... Let's see how many of them stop bashing WP7 now that they have it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can't touch you if you have Android on it. That's one reason I want to go with Android on my HD7 rather than do temporary hacks on it. But having a WP7 device, I have no desire to use it on my HD2. It just isn't that good to me now that the newness has work off.
I hope microsoft finds a way to block this quickly, just gonna lead to more hacking, then comes free paid apps, then comes a lack of good developers due to no financial plus-side, then comes the OS being just a prettier version of android....
MartyLK said:
They can't touch you if you have Android on it. That's one reason I want to go with Android on my HD7 rather than do temporary hacks on it. But having a WP7 device, I have no desire to use it on my HD2. It just isn't that good to me now that the newness has work off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was referring to the HD2 with WP7 as the hacked console... Hopefully the people who use it don't get hammered by Microsoft
z33dev33l said:
I hope microsoft finds a way to block this quickly, just gonna lead to more hacking, then comes free paid apps, then comes a lack of good developers due to no financial plus-side, then comes the OS being just a prettier version of android....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be careful, don't say this too loud, I was just attacked by some very close-minded users in another thread about it... People just don't understand, Microsoft doesn't have Apples marketing ability to overcome the blast that will come from all of these hacks. Even if you were being sarcastic, couldn't tell.
But I do think this is good for the HD2 users, at least it gives them hope for the expensive device some of them are bound to.
Nah, I'm 100 percent serious. I support third party applications no problem but getting paid apps for free is crap. Who wants to dev for a platform that can get their games for free?
z33dev33l said:
Nah, I'm 100 percent serious. I support third party applications no problem but getting paid apps for free is crap. Who wants to dev for a platform that can get their games for free?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ask MS about Windows? All versions? Ask developers about any platform? It isn't that big of a deal.
vetvito said:
Ask MS about Windows? All versions? Ask developers about any platform? It isn't that big of a deal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And every one of them continues to try and fix their holes. Unfortunately most OSes had crap security to work off of to begin with and its hard building on top of crap. Windows had fair security and im hoping they can fend off the people getting free apps at least for the Xbox live games or else we may never get ports of our favorite games to WP7
z33dev33l said:
And every one of them continues to try and fix their holes. Unfortunately most OSes had crap security to work off of to begin with and its hard building on top of crap. Windows had fair security and im hoping they can fend off the people getting free apps at least for the Xbox live games or else we may never get ports of our favorite games to WP7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it has anything to do with getting paid apps free. Android has some of the best games going that people are ripping off right and left and devs continue to develop for it.
this has nothing to do with hacking apps , the code they use will be connected to the live account they use.
the os isn't hacked , only ms his market place on the pc hacked to download app's to the pc (they can fix it 10 sec, so don't ask me way they didn't fixed it)
you can see the hd2 got a legal update (not cracked what so ever ) from a illegal place
Could someone point me to a Windows 7 Rom for Hd2
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
demon187 said:
Could someone point me to a Windows 7 Rom for Hd2
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=912416
Wp7 hd2 illegal
vetvito said:
Damn, Craigslist here I come. The HD2 is awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really amazing, but... ILLEGAL
Or rather, not doing as well as I feel it should. This is just my opinion.
The answer is whiny developers.
From the beginning, all we've heard is 'MS didn't release this API, that's why we don't have x app by y developer'. And then time and again, so small time devs give us their version of the app mysteriously not needing said API to make it happen. Sometimes, it's even Microsft themselves shooting WP7 in the foot.
I'm no dev myself but doesn't it seem strange to you that:
1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
And the list goes on. Makes you wonder if:
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
Smooth transitions and a badass UI only take you so far.
MS needs to step-up their integration as well while I'm on my soap box. WP7 really does need to be better than WM6.5 in every way except stylus support IMHO.
Sorry to any I may have pissed off with this rant but I'm jetlagged and bored right now.
Have a good day.
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)
I don't think it is failing, its just loyal WM users are hedging about a purchase (including me) because there's not a lot that they can do with the device as of this time. I personally think MS-Nokia partnership bodes well for the platform. I imagine Nokia porting a lot of their excellent apps to the WP7 platform (OviMaps using Bing data anyone? for all i care they could just use the ovimaps platform, its good as it is). I personally think its exciting and I'm looking forward to a Nokia device running WP7.
I guess it all depends on what your looking for. I dont need google maps, the preinstalled one works for me. I call/text/email all my friends or see them weekly so I could care less for facebook. I twitter a little bit but the apps in the market are sufficient. I keep my phone on vibrate most of the time but I guess it would be nice to use on sundays.
The only part thats needs some improvements to me are the browser, multitasking and I would love a remote desktop app. Thats the 3 things from android that I miss.
otech said:
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)
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Don't get me wrong otech, I put the 'failing' in quotation marks for a reason.
I know it's doing a lot better than most expected. I just get pissed when I got to trollish blogs like engadget and see the hate spewed. I have no real loyalty to MS, just loyalty to quality which WP7 is.
It just annoys when devs say such and such can't be done, yet it is being done already.
ROI is a cop-out as they can simply make ad-based games or apps. Don't some apps make more money in Zune marketplace compared to Android marketplace?
Yet Android market share is humongous. And why do they feel the need to also publish some snide comment about how they just can't develop for WP7 because the interest isn't there? It just re-enforces my view that these devs are whiny brats.
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
failing?
lol, more and more of my friends are now useing wp7 phones..
I don't really see why we need conspiracy theories where there are simpler explanations.
The main problem with satnav apps is that they cannot be ported simply because there's no native code access. Sygic or TomTom or whoever will need to create and maintain a completely separate fork, with almost nothing being reused between their WP7 and all other versions. That's expensive, and with WP7's tiny userbase it just doesn't make any sense. It's very similar for hardcore games.
Microsoft could finance these projects, but for some reason they chose not to. One of the reasons may be that operators are quite happy selling their solutions for subscription. Navigon already did a satnav app for WP7, but they don't distribute it themselves.
1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
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Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
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Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
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The game sucks
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
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read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
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You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
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SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
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What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
There is some confusion in this thread over Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.
Yes, Windows 8 will be capable of running on an ARM processor. No, it does not make sense for a full blown OS to be running on your phone, even if it can, because it doesn't make a for a good small touchscreen experience. There would always need to exist two different marketplaces.
I have not heard anything more than speculation on Windows Phone 8. But I am certain that if and ever in the near future MS were to launch WP8, it would all be part of the same ecosystem. It would be suicide in this market not to continue compatability. Obviously at some point there will need to be a cut off in forward compatability, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Not soon enough to start regretting a WP7 purchase.
Vintage144 said:
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
The game sucks
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
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Are you serious or did you just want to troll/have no reading comprehension skills?
1/. I'm not a delivery truck driver but I was trying to make my way around Germany last week and needed turn by turn navigation while trying to find a restaurant in town to eat at. I wonder what would've helped out...? Oh yeah!! Working maps outside of the US that provided voice guidance.
2/.This was about how WP7 is supposed to be FB integrated yet the apps are better on both IOS and Android. And I'm sorry you don't have friends to talk to from time to time that would make FB chat on your cell an asset since it's blocked by most offices.
3/. The issue of the whole article is devs. Not the quality of the games. Learn to read!!
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
5/. You really are a moron to not see the advantages of google voice. I have unlimited everything on my plan but that does me no good when I'm overseas, something I doubt you will ever have happen to you as I doubt people want your brand of ignorance exported.
6/. All capslocks sentences get no response.
7/. I don't think you're a dev if that's what you're implying.
8/. This makes no sense. I've never been on ATT. I don't like Android as it's a clone of 2 OS, wm 6.5 and IOS and the only other OS I've used extensively is Symbian besides wm6.5. Don't assume because you end up looking like an ass in the process.
My points are valid, devs have behaved like brats with WP7. Which has less limitations that IOS did back in the day yet they worked wonders for that OS.
lekki said:
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
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I did a search for "Touchexplorer" and Touch Explorer" in the market and didn't find any results.
rhory said:
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
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This seems quite a silly argument. Anyone with any knowledge of Microsoft history would know that it is highly unusual for them to break from a legacy platform. WP8 is likely simply be a natural iteration on the WP7 system.
To my knowledge MS has done exactly 2 legacy breaks in it's history. NT and WP7 that's it every other OS they've developed has been a evolution rather than a revolutionary break.
WP8 will just be WP7 with the NoDo and Mango updates might get some additional interface customization but I suspect it will be able to run on current WP7 handsets.
That's just the way MS does stuff. The hard compatibility break between WM6.5 and WP7 is just not business as usual for MS.
I think it's highly unlikely that any app written for WP7 won't work on WP8 when it finally materializes.
IMHO windows phone is like the iphone now. Wp8 will not kill wp7. It will be the same ecosystem and all users will be able to upgrade. Wether will it run or not on old devices i dont know but i dont think its reasonable to say they will kill everything they´ve done with wp7 next year. Windows Phone is not like Windows mobile. Forget the old microsoft. Things are different and better now (god bless competition).
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
pillsburydoughman said:
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
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I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
I wouldn't say its failing but the OS is still fairly new and its a slightly new experience compared to iOS, S60, and even Android.
As time goes on, with more support and more phones from Nokia, WP7 should gain some more popularity.
lekki said:
I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
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Sorry your reply makes no sense.. and I quote
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
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Nobody cares why you bought WP7, I can only assume you bought it because you wanted one. It's not a matter of attack or defending anything, I see no reason why you're bothered that you have to "defend" your decision to purchase something.
Funny how you complain about whiny developers yet you're whining yourself.
lekki said:
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
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Even if WP8 will be W8, so what? All current APIs are managed code, applications can be transferred without even recompiling. Since there is no native code access it doesn't matter which core the OS will use.