When Windows Phone 7 was announced, every WinMo fan could not wait to see what Microsoft was going to come up with. We were all hoping that Microsoft could give us a modern mobile OS that was feature-rich and stable. Something at best better than Android and at worst comparable.
The first set of news that started to raise eyebrows was the complete design control Microsoft imposed on the phones. From the cpu speed to the number of physical buttons, we jokingly said Microsoft was beginning to sound like Apple. But we brushed it off saying that the high minimum requirements meant all the phones were going to be fabulously powerful and there is nothing wrong with that.
Then more disturbing things started to come out. No bluetooth transfer or mass storage mode. Conflicting reports were coming out about the memory card or lack thereof. There would be no Flash support and Zune software will be needed to manage files on the phone. Suddenly the mobile OS Microsoft was creating started to sound less and less like Android and more like iOS.
But I believe that Microsoft does not see Windows Phone 7 as a competitor to the Android and iPhone phones of this world. I think they are actually after the Blackberry market instead. Then all these limitations make sense. Windows Phone 7 has too many mass consumer limitations to compete with a well established Android OS. But the Blackberry market, as insane as it sounds with how rooted BBs are in government and corporations, is actually attainable.
Microsoft put effort into creating a phone that is a hub of information. Email capabilities when using an Exchange server look amazing. MSN messenger already has a large user base.
+ WP7 handsets are more technologically advanced than BB handsets
+ MSN Messenger is better than BB Messenger
+ Browser experience is without question better than what BB is offering now
- BB is the king of email and WP7 will have to work to trump BB.
But it makes for more sense for this phone to be a BlackBerry beater than an Android one. I would pick any of the 9 debut handsets over a Blackberry. I would have a harder time choosing them over a Desire.
The only hopes of trumping BB phones is rooted in security. For any company to allow the use of wp7 phones, there will needed to be extensive security testing to ensure that the intellectual property is safeguarded. This is especially applicable to governments.
And I believe that is exactly what they did. Here is an interview taken from everythingwm.com:
Two conspicuous absences in the abilities of Windows Phone 7 are Flash and Silverlight — the latter especially, as it is developed by Microsoft themselves. TechRadar talked to Microsoft’s Andy Lees, president of the mobile communications division, on the issue, and this is what he had to say:
“It’s not a religious thing; we support standard H.264 video in the browser. We’re not allergic to Flash, we’re not allergic to Silverlight, we’re not allergic to HTML5 – but this [Windows Phone 7 browser] doesn’t support it. We don’t have the extensibility model inside the browser for those pieces and when you see the future I think you’ll understand why.
[...]
“There is no ActiveX plug-in extensibility because of the security model; we’re not going to do that. And with no ActiveX plug-in model, how would we do Flash?”
It’s about stability, security, and battery life, it seems. Pretty much exactly what Apple said about why they don’t support Flash on the iPhone.
WP7 is not even close to being targeted at the corporate world right now. It's targeted at regular consumers.
No side loading or private publishing
barely any support for policies
no device encryption
BlackBerry will continue to dominate the corporate sector until someone else (and I think it will be Microsoft) decides to compete in those aspects.
RustyGrom said:
WP7 is not even close to being targeted at the corporate world right now. It's targeted at regular consumers.
No side loading or private publishing
barely any support for policies
no device encryption
BlackBerry will continue to dominate the corporate sector until someone else (and I think it will be Microsoft) decides to compete in those aspects.
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It's almost like he's reading this forum.
http://www.winsupersite.com/mobile/wp7_business.asp explains all this at length in case you're interested.
going to agree with rusty here. Bb market is losing more share than windows to iPhone mostly. Wp7 is a consumer device with some nuances of work related material
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
RustyGrom said:
It's almost like he's reading this forum.
http://www.winsupersite.com/mobile/wp7_business.asp explains all this at length in case you're interested.
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I actually started to do some searching after and made a post that did not go thru.
I have read posts that claims Windows will support side-loading apps.
Policy support can be fixed.
No device level encryption, but there is data level encryption so data can be protected and provide developers with flexible options.
My whole thing is this: If Windows is indeed looking to be in the same market space as iOS and Android they will get crushed initially. There are on average comparable phones in the Android market to these 9 WP7 devices.
HTC HD7 vs Desire HD - The Desire HD is better in battery life, camera MP and because it is an Android phone it does not have the quirky limitations that WP7. Why would the average consumer pick the HD7 over the Desire HD? The same goes for the HTC 7 Pro vs Desire Z. The most unique phones out of the bunch are the HTC 7 Surround and the Mozart.
I guess I am looking at it from my point of view. WP7 looks to be more business inspired than Android and iOS and I do not like/want a Blackberry Storm (or Torch).
nicksti said:
I actually started to do some searching after and made a post that did not go thru.
I have read posts that claims Windows will support side-loading apps.
Policy support can be fixed.
No device level encryption, but there is data level encryption so data can be protected and provide developers with flexible options.
My whole thing is this: If Windows is indeed looking to be in the same market space as iOS and Android they will get crushed initially. There are on average comparable phones in the Android market to these 9 WP7 devices.
HTC HD7 vs Desire HD - The Desire HD is better in battery life, camera MP and because it is an Android phone it does not have the quirky limitations that WP7. Why would the average consumer pick the HD7 over the Desire HD? The same goes for the HTC 7 Pro vs Desire Z. The most unique phones out of the bunch are the HTC 7 Surround and the Mozart.
I guess I am looking at it from my point of view. WP7 looks to be more business inspired than Android and iOS and I do not like/want a Blackberry Storm (or Torch).
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Yes, at first WP7 will probably get crushed but it will gain momentum.
There's plenty of reasons why consumers will pick up WP7 devices. Better media, better UI, easier to use, a guaranteed experience, higher quality apps, etc. There's been many, many threads and posts on this forum debating this topic so I'd suggest you start reading if you want to know the pros/cons.
Yes, there is side loading but it's only for registered developers. Read the article I posted, it does a good job of explaining it. WP7 is in no way targeted at corporations right now. That will come in time but right now it is squarely pointed at media and social networking hungry consumers.
So yes, because it does include exchange policy support as well as office integration, you could make the argument that it's already more corporate friendly than iPhone and Android. But that's not saying much at all. It is still not even on the same playing field as BlackBerry in that space.
I am not sure if the xda review shares my opinion, but look at the last paragraphof this article:
http://www.xda-developers.com/windows-mobile/xda-exclusive-windows-phone-7-review/
WP7 is targeted at dumbphone users who want to switch to a smartphone.
Many of them already have iPhones, but there are still lots of potential customers who haven't switched to a smartphone yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdpQir1sqiQ
Windows Phone 7 taking a funny shot at Crackberry users.
I think microsoft kept it to a minimum. They released what was ready. It is not like android got flash right away or it had all the features that it has now from the get go. I think for once microsoft did the right thing. They released a good OS and didn't put in stuff that was not ready to be release. Are they probably testing a faster browser? Flash support? may be turn by turn navigation app of their own? Mass storage support? I do hope so for their sake, and I am pretty sure they do have plans for those features. Lately microsoft has been on the right track not releasing software that is broken and works hals assed and needs to be held back. They went with what was ready and held back what is not ready.
crow26 said:
WP7 is targeted at dumbphone users who want to switch to a smartphone.
Many of them already have iPhones, but there are still lots of potential customers who haven't switched to a smartphone yet.
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Great post You just insulted most of the phone users in the world.
agp64 said:
Great post You just insulted most of the phone users in the world.
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He's like a broken record with that crap in many WP7 threads.
nkd said:
I think microsoft kept it to a minimum. They released what was ready. It is not like android got flash right away or it had all the features that it has now from the get go. I think for once microsoft did the right thing. They released a good OS and didn't put in stuff that was not ready to be release. Are they probably testing a faster browser? Flash support? may be turn by turn navigation app of their own? Mass storage support? I do hope so for their sake, and I am pretty sure they do have plans for those features. Lately microsoft has been on the right track not releasing software that is broken and works hals assed and needs to be held back. They went with what was ready and held back what is not ready.
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Free turn by turn nav is nothing new to MS. They were first to have free TbT on the WinMo 6.5 in Bing search. TbT nav is now a common thing in today's smartphones. For MS to not plan it in from the get go for WP7 is, in my view of it, short sighted.
The TbT incorporated in Bing on my HD2 worked flawlessly. I see nothing broken about software MS already has perfected. My view is MS is just being hard-nosed and far too conservative about features in WP7. It's as if they are daring the market not to support WP7. They are doing the exact opposite of what they need to do to have a mobile OS that will survive in this market. Instead of piling in the features and making a top-notch OS that makes a person say, "WOW! I have to have that!", they are making a first-rate, top-notch OS but skimping on features. This makes a person think, when considering the nature of technology getting better and more feature laden as time passes, that they have to have a WP7 device and then, when they see it doesn't do what they expected because it doesn't have all those features, they become disillusioned and are left with a bummed out feeling toward MS and their shiny, fancy new OS.
Since this is how MS does business....newer tech being LESS feature laden...the next time I buy a car, I will buy a Lexus and expect a model-T
I'm sitting here with the worst case of buyers remorse I've had since I bought a Palm VII. I bought my Surround off-contract, and the store has a no-returns policy for non-contract sales, so this thing is going on Craigslist for a loss tomorrow.
That said, in a lot of ways, my old Bold 9000, BBOS 4.x, circa 2008 had more functionality than this late 2010 WP7 device. I could use it as a storage device, for one thing, and "side load" applications, and more importantly, data (ebooks, music, movies, etc) without needing any sort of sync program. It also had better audio than this Surround, believe it or not.
Croak said:
I'm sitting here with the worst case of buyers remorse I've had since I bought a Palm VII. I bought my Surround off-contract, and the store has a no-returns policy for non-contract sales, so this thing is going on Craigslist for a loss tomorrow.
That said, in a lot of ways, my old Bold 9000, BBOS 4.x, circa 2008 had more functionality than this late 2010 WP7 device. I could use it as a storage device, for one thing, and "side load" applications, and more importantly, data (ebooks, music, movies, etc) without needing any sort of sync program. It also had better audio than this Surround, believe it or not.
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That is what happens when opt to be a guinea pig. But you can place a reasonable bet that these initial offering issues will be fixed by Q1 2011. The question is are you willing to wait?
And no, I do not believe your Bold 9000 has better audio than the Surround. But I have not heard the Surround yet.
Croak said:
I'm sitting here with the worst case of buyers remorse I've had since I bought a Palm VII. I bought my Surround off-contract, and the store has a no-returns policy for non-contract sales, so this thing is going on Craigslist for a loss tomorrow.
That said, in a lot of ways, my old Bold 9000, BBOS 4.x, circa 2008 had more functionality than this late 2010 WP7 device. I could use it as a storage device, for one thing, and "side load" applications, and more importantly, data (ebooks, music, movies, etc) without needing any sort of sync program. It also had better audio than this Surround, believe it or not.
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Are you actually deaf or using broken headphones/speakers? The zune player has the best audio playback off any phone period.
I have posted about other complains on the phone in other threads so i will keep this to a basic summary.
Zune file management is easily the best if you pref active sync then there is something wrong with you plus its media management makes even apple look pafetic.
If you want a mass storage device buy a memory stick there like £20 and work better than any phone mp3 player or book reader.
copy and paste and flash are on the way though tbf c/p is overrated and flash is a battery drain.
multitasking is just for show and in the real world only acts to drain battery and slow down performance (everything it would be useful for already do ie you can read texts whilst in other apps)
turn by turn is just a gimic don't know about anyone else but when i get in my car I have my tomtom and don't kill my phone just getting somewhere.
All in all MS has got the point of a phone and have what is needed working let us not forget the bonuses,
Zune rules everything, hubs and tiles are the future, Xbox live is the greatest thing to happen to phones ever and it all works smoth and looks like something from minority report whils tnot sacrifysing anything thats actually useful, just a bunch of crap people like to say they have.
Zune is an awesome player and I can second that.
But Android is much more hackable and versatile. It's like Windows Mobile 6.5 with better interface and looks!
I like how lumpa's argument on essential features is,"Well, you only THINK you need that."
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Related
Hey Guys
Video and Piccies
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-and-impressions/
http://www.slashgear.com/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-1573973/
It doesn't look to be more hardware challenging than sense + wm 6.5.3 .... I wonder if they changed the boot-loader requirements much
Well... I thing it's time to give a try to "you know who... Harry".... (iphone) LOL. First impresion, i don't like WM7.
I can't believe that they haven't had a leak of it yet
and if all apps are restricted, android here i come
I can't post links for some stupid reason, but there is a REALLY long video demo on channel 9. It is called:
First-Look-Windows-Phone-7-Series-Hands-on-Demo
just got to "channel9 do msdn dot com" and search for the above.
windows 7
goodbye winmo,hello android,have used winmo for ever,but microsoft have shot themselves in the head this time,instead of the foot as usual.
you can forget cooking roms etc for 7 series,ms are going to lock up os so that folk cannot "improve" the software,ms is bored with htc making them look stupid.
looks almost as if ms have given up on rest of the world and are looking to survive with american market.
a bing hardware button !!,there are only 15 people in the world who use bing and they all work for ms.
x-box and zune support intergrated,cor that should please a few dozen more folk.
this was meant to be the start of great new things,apple etc must be laughing them selves stupid.
series 7 to go up against iphone, winmo 6.5 for enterprise.
looks like most of the rumours of a two os system etc where right..
Note how he skips questions on prompts for lockscreen.
Also how he skips out on showing any of the day to day features and how they will look.
The rep in the slashgear vid also avoids all relevant questions.
TBH consumers and certain sites bemoaned WM6.5 for crippling devices like the HD2 and TG01....yet now they are all upset that this is too simple. It is a phone for noddy.
Guys in the media, make up your mind!!!
I hope XDA can come to the rescue of this pos. eye candy only goes so far, but it offers no nutrition that we can use daily.
This is not looking one iota like a business capable device.
Terribly disappointed with Win Phone 7. It's a regular person OS. Completely built around Social Networking with very little appeal to the business user and with ZERO appeal to us tweakers and hackers.
I hate the all text interface. Looks like i'll be sticking with 6.5 for a long time to come.
Time to start saving funds... to buy a new baby capable for WP7S
Hey flar!!! make this **** A News on the XDA portal!!!!
new era for XDA developers! hope all the big masters are now thinking DAMN! this is freaking cool!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDAeyy1H0A
wow what a waste of RD money. Still very slow and lagging. Looks nothing more then a UI upgrade over wmo6.
I am off to the next google phone!!
Interesting thoughts, but I disagree. Apple isn't laughing. WinMo7 looks aimed straight at Apple’s consumer-dependent heart. So Microsoft is tightening down platform constraints and cooking ROMs may become a thing of the past...when it comes to market share, so what?
Lack of development transparency at the OS level hasn't hurt Apple’s market share. Frankly, it has helped Apple build a tightly integrated consumer appliance that doesn't water itself down by pandering to corner contingent s of users. Apple has proven that extending the platform through application development and NOT allowing customizing the platform is the current recipe for success. WinMo7 is co=opting this recipe, but still allowing far more development flexibility than Apple does.
Realize that the real play in Mobile is about the consumer experience…this is why your complaints about Bing, Zune, etc. don’t make any sense. These functions are usage enablers, just like Google Maps and the iTunes are on the iPhone. No one cares about the brand; they care what they can do with the device. If I can do everything as slickly on a WinMo7 device that I can do an iPhone, do I really care if I am using Google or Bing? End-to-end, WinMo7 is going right at the core of the iPhone consumer value prop, while providing a more open platform that far more robust than the iPhone and still enables all of the Enterprise scenarios with ActiveSync and Exchange Policy integration
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform.
While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
tleaf100 said:
goodbye winmo,hello android,have used winmo for ever,but microsoft have shot themselves in the head this time,instead of the foot as usual.
you can forget cooking roms etc for 7 series,ms are going to lock up os so that folk cannot "improve" the software,ms is bored with htc making them look stupid.
looks almost as if ms have given up on rest of the world and are looking to survive with american market.
a bing hardware button !!,there are only 15 people in the world who use bing and they all work for ms.
x-box and zune support intergrated,cor that should please a few dozen more folk.
this was meant to be the start of great new things,apple etc must be laughing them selves stupid.
series 7 to go up against iphone, winmo 6.5 for enterprise.
looks like most of the rumours of a two os system etc where right..
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Click to collapse
very good post, thanks a lot!
I'm sure, MS will have success with 7.
kenikh said:
Interesting thoughts, but I disagree. Apple isn't laughing. WinMo7 looks aimed straight at Apple’s consumer-dependent heart. So Microsoft is tightening down platform constraints and cooking ROMs may become a thing of the past...when it comes to market share, so what?
Lack of development transparency at the OS level hasn't hurt Apple’s market share. Frankly, it has helped Apple build a tightly integrated consumer appliance that doesn't water itself down by pandering to corner contingent s of users. Apple has proven that extending the platform through application development and NOT allowing customizing the platform is the current recipe for success. WinMo7 is co=opting this recipe, but still allowing far more development flexibility than Apple does.
Realize that the real play in Mobile is about the consumer experience…this is why your complaints about Bing, Zune, etc. don’t make any sense. These functions are usage enablers, just like Google Maps and the iTunes are on the iPhone. No one cares about the brand; they care what they can do with the device. If I can do everything as slickly on a WinMo7 device that I can do an iPhone, do I really care if I am using Google or Bing? End-to-end, WinMo7 is going right at the core of the iPhone consumer value prop, while providing a more open platform that far more robust than the iPhone and still enables all of the Enterprise scenarios with ActiveSync and Exchange Policy integration
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform.
While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kenikh said:
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform. While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta agree with this.
I Personally dont know what to say about winmob 7. First time viewing the video was a SHOCK. It was soo radically different from what im used to looking at on 6.5 and 6.5.3.
It was nothing like sense either.
I wont say if I hate it or like it yet till I use it, or a zune HD since its nothing like anything Iv used.
It appears as if the business user focus is gone, but perhaps they will show somehow bring it back when they further demo it nxt month.
I will say one thing about winmobil 7, after years of using 6,6.1,6.5 I feel more comfortable using android then win7.
I feel windows Mobil 7 will be wm6.5's successor only in name.
I don't understand what y'all are talking about saying that this will not work for business users?!?! Microsoft is going to have functionality for all of its core business functions (i.e. word, excel, powerpoint, exchange, etc...). Am I to understand that just because a phone has the capability to appeal to the business persons life not just their work, means that it is not business capable?
Is there anything saying that the UI of a, "business" phone has to be bland, boring and lacking any modern interface? Does it have to look like windows 98?
Anyways, sign me up for the pre-order of this thing! I hope the Dell Mini 5 comes with WMSS!!!
Am I the only one who also doesnt give a frazzle about social networking?
I prefer real life updates from people who can be bothered to text or call me and engage in conversation, and I do likewise.
I must be too old fashioned...wait, I'm 23....sign me up to the care home!
Reason why i didnt think it was a business capable device was because it seemed to be so slim on features...and hell we cannot even see the settings screens, or have a way to set someone's callerID picture????
I did notice a mention of 'policies' so perhaps that is the way for XDA to get around WMP7 and its protections.
But yes, most people have depressingly low levels of intelligence and cannot be bothered to find anything like XDA or tract technical waters. Hence iphone, and WMP7 and every other dumbass idea will get market traction.
And it gets traction because it LOOKS finished. WM6.5 never looked finished because even if you made it look perfect you would still know of something else to tweak.
With iphone and WMP7 the philsophy to get market acceptance is simply to lock it down so that people learn to accept what they have whatever it is, to look at the visuals, give up wanting to tweak/personalise/fix, and use the phone....
oh wait...that's almost commendable
Basically - give someone something unfixable and in time they will learn to love it
Ouch. Frankly... that hurts.
I'm not at all a fan of that kind of mashup UI. It looks just like a big non-appealing mess to me. I love Sense, and to me that's what it should have been. W7P seems to be all about a very limited set of tasks aggregated around social networking and stuff that I don't give a damn about.
And to add to it,
http://www.osnews.com/story/22877/Microsoft_Unveils_Windows_Phone_7_Series said:
Screen resolution, aspect ratio, CPU speed, memory, you name it; it's all mandated by Microsoft. Even the button configuration: Start, back, search. That's it. No deviations. Speaking of deviations - no more custom UIs, Microsoft doesn't allow them.
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So we have no hope of actually getting something different. Sigh...
They didn't even talk or show about the app concept, only core functionality, so it's hard to see what we can expect. So far, it seems that it won't be soon that I'll move away from WM6.5, except that...
http://www.osnews.com/story/22877/Microsoft_Unveils_Windows_Phone_7_Series said:
Windows Phone 7 Series is a clean break. There is no backwards compatibility at all.
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That sucks VERY VERY badly. Firstly, the ~8 years of WM development and the great apps it has led to are LOST. Start from scratch again. We're again in the situation with a "dead" platform stuck with limited core funtionality for 2 years until developers start putting out interesting stuff for it.
But where it sucks even more, is that from today on WM6.5 is pretty much dead. Who's going to continue developing apps for something that will disappear in 6 months? So those who will decide to stay with WM6.5 will have to do with what they have now...
I also can't help but feel sorry for some at this point, like Schaps who's about to release something great after years of development... 3 months before the whole platform is wiped.
W7P sucks.
Hopefully by the time I need a new phone android will be mature enough, seeing as after 2 years it only just begins getting decent apps...
this winmo 7 is a s**t!!
As a user of a ZuneHD I am extremely excited about WMP7. The UI on the ZuneHD seems a little strange at first, but once you use it you'll be amazed at how efficient it really is. I think this also bodes well for App development for the ZuneHD.
As far as business use, apparently many of you did not watch the entire keynote this morning. They demonstrated how WMP7 can integrate both your business and personal data while still providing indication of which area the data belongs to. There is also an entire "hub" dedicated to business apps like Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.
For me, this is much much better than anything I expected.
People kept complaining about how little Windows Mobile has changed over the years. I'm glad the new OS turned out like this. Great change compared to the drab legacy that has been dragging on. Also I'm a huge fan of the lack of gloss in the UI and heavy text stylization. Love the Zune HD inspired design and I'm glad I didn't get a Zune HD, so that now I can get a WP7S phone next year.
Also to those worried about settings, page, give the guys a break. They announced the freaking thing TODAY. Over time, we'll see more of WP7.
WoW...everyone is quick to judge !????
I'm a PC..haha...no seriously. Looking at what has come into light in the pulic domain is a fantastic idea / product / OS (yes okay its a zune with phone features).
Everyone who likes windows mobile will have to change thier ways....just like they did with the OS platform like windows 95 / 98 / 2000 / XP / Vista and now Windows 7 and now its the mobile sides turn.
Out with the old 5.0, 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 etc, in with the new....and its a good thing its totally different.
people here may complain that "OH NO...no more TouchFLO".....so WHAT ! my fav company is HTC, and yes there will be an interface which HTC will develop (well they already have...hehe)....just hold on to your pants people....its going to be SUPER ....we just saw the OS and thats it.....MIX10 show will provide you all the details and whats to offer...hello Killer Apps!
What you see in all the videos is an unfinished OS product...there is a reason for this; Samsung, LG, ACER, HTC etc will all have thier input and style, however the base functions stay the same...(Zune, Pictures, XboX,
I can tell you the Phone Dialer (man its ugly) , that WILL change. TXT messages, that will change and some other things....which everyone will see very soon
in the words of a wise guy: http://www.moviesoundclips.net/movies1/transformers/shallow.wav
+ Que PPC said:
Time to start saving funds... to buy a new baby capable for WP7S
Hey flar!!! make this **** A News on the XDA portal!!!!
new era for XDA developers! hope all the big masters are now thinking DAMN! this is freaking cool!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDAeyy1H0A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read some of the other WM7 threads, well.... not so much "cool", but rather there is a big feeling of disappointment. As I said in a different post, it looks as if a Zune and an Ipod gave birth to.... this thing. If you have the urgent need to let the world know that you are in the middle of taking a big dump, then this is the phone for you
My reasons why I think Windows Phone 7 fail. I'm not here to profess my love for Apple, Google, Linux, Open Source or Nokia. Rather I'm here to present simple facts and problems that could be bad for the platform.
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
Your criticism is wellcomed here. But I gonna criticize your criticism.
CDMA Support will come. 6months after the release of the GSM version. The Iphone is huge and is only on one carrier, a gsm carrier at that, did CMDA hurt it. The first US Android device was the Tmobile G1. It was the only Android device for a while, and again launched on a GSM carrier, but look Android is huge now.. Also the main market MS is aiming at is the Euro/Asia Market which is mostly GSM. So you think about smart move or not?
It cost money? The top selling Android phones are all premium devices. They're sold at $199 on each carrier. If price is a bad, thing how did the Iphone become so popular? Those specs MS chose are to keep a quality control on the hardware so devs can fully utilitize the hardware. If MS used lower specs than devs would have to support the least common denominator and the app won't be as optimized.
Yes WM6.5 wasn't successful, but there are reasons behind that fragmentation and LOW SPECS. The kin was a failure from the beginning since it took away MS resource and time away from WP7. WM6.5 and the Kin didn't have the features that WP7 has, nor did they have the dev support that WP7 is receiving which is what will make it successful.
juliusaugustus said:
My reasons why I think Windows Phone 7 fail. I'm not here to profess my love for Apple, Google, Linux, Open Source or Nokia. Rather I'm here to present simple facts and problems that could be bad for the platform.
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
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Click to collapse
My thought is don't judge a thing before it is released...
For your CDMA support point, did Iphone and Android release CDMA phone when they are launched. NO, why? This a basic business or economic knowledge, since WP7 is new product and GSM still the priority. Microsoft has to see how consumers respond to their concept, CDMA definitely will be supported soon.
Yeah...Of course,it cost money, but this is depends how the manufacturers deal with Microsoft. For example, Microsoft might offer a very low price to manufacturers to use their operating system or Manufacturer foresee the future vale of WP7. Furthermore, these big companies got many financial analyzers.This is what you no need worry about it.Lastly, What consumers want to see is the actual price of the handset and the actual values it brought to us.
Regarding the low end market, of course, Microsoft is conducting product-differentiation strategy, thats why they did'n aim the low end market. Furthermore, the required hardwares are to ensure to user experiences. For example, Comparing HTC Tattoo and HTC evo. If you bought Tattoo, most users definitely will blame the android OS but not the hardwares, because not everyone in the world is tech-geek. In contrast, the handset you bought is HTC evo, you definitely will feel that is awesome, no laggy,smooth, fast, great resolution.
Regarding the Microsoft Kin, what I predict is, but not confirmed, Microsoft try to observe the consumer spending behaviour and handphone demand, but not try to earn the profit. For instance, the advertisement fees on KIN, I can say it is extremely low. Furthermore, KIN just open for US market. Lastly, Microsoft can cut down the production of this phone so fast and quick with minimal lost. So, you can see that maybe they already plan to cut down the procution at the beginning. And they are preparing something big at the backstage...which is WP7...
When you comparing WM6 and WP7 is completely wrong, because this two OSes are completely different, in term of UI, functionalities and etc.....Everyone knows that the WM6 market share is extremely low now. In my opinion, this is what Microsoft done wrong, back in few years ago, WM6 still dominate the Smartphone market so called monopoly, and Microsoft didn't realised the threat of new entrants such as android and iOS. In addition, Microsoft focused more on PC OS.
Lastly, I just hope don't judge something before you try or use...
Cheers...
you know there is life outside USA and it's 95% GSM network running world out there...
I think more than the licensing fees and hardware limitations, WP7 will be capped by a messaging and features challenge.
How do you convince the average smartphone user to get a WP7 device instead of an iPhone or Android handset? WP7's UI is different, but it's not necessarily compelling. WP7 might have integrated FB status updates in the People hub, but for full FB functions, you'd have to have an FB app anyway. I'm skeptical that people will be convinced of the alleged "at a glance" experience of WP7 (the WM6 Today screen, for that matter, gave much more info at a glance but had to be hidden by every OEM).
Xbox Live score/achievement integration is the only real differentiator, but that only matters to Xbox gamers, and even when it comes to gaming, the iPhone has WP7 handily beat with several games that have real-time local + online multiplayer support (something WP7 does not support).
Gaming graphics are not going to be a big one either, as the iPhone has dozens of first-rate 3D games, and given that all first-gen WP7 devices will have the aging first-gen Snapdragon chip (MSM8250 @ 1 GHz), the iPhone 3GS, 4, and many Android devices have more powerful GPUs in any case.
Zune integration doesn't appeal to average users (just look at Zune's market share). Average consumers will see WP7 as being similar to Android in that it doesn't sync with iTunes. The alternative may be there (Zune for WP7, Amazon and others for Android), but from an initial purchase standpoint, they're thinking about iTunes or no iTunes.
WP7 has no killer app on the business front either, with such a limited Office experience (Word/Excel/etc. can make only rudimentary changes to documents, compared to much richer 3rd party editing apps on the iPhone), no Outlook sync support (for offices that don't use Exchange), and an Exchange ActiveSync experience not terribly different from the iPhone's or Android's. I think MS' marketing push highlighting Xbox Live integration will also hurt WP7 on the business credibility front.
amb9800 said:
I think more than the licensing fees and hardware limitations, WP7 will be capped by a messaging and features challenge.
How do you convince the average smartphone user to get a WP7 device instead of an iPhone or Android handset? WP7's UI is different, but it's not necessarily compelling. WP7 might have integrated FB status updates in the People hub, but for full FB functions, you'd have to have an FB app anyway. I'm skeptical that people will be convinced of the alleged "at a glance" experience of WP7 (the WM6 Today screen, for that matter, gave much more info at a glance but had to be hidden by every OEM).
Xbox Live score/achievement integration is the only real differentiator, but that only matters to Xbox gamers, and even when it comes to gaming, the iPhone has WP7 handily beat with several games that have real-time local + online multiplayer support (something WP7 does not support).
Gaming graphics are not going to be a big one either, as the iPhone has dozens of first-rate 3D games, and given that all first-gen WP7 devices will have the aging first-gen Snapdragon chip (MSM8250 @ 1 GHz), the iPhone 3GS, 4, and many Android devices have more powerful GPUs in any case.
Zune integration doesn't appeal to average users (just look at Zune's market share). Average consumers will see WP7 as being similar to Android in that it doesn't sync with iTunes. The alternative may be there (Zune for WP7, Amazon and others for Android), but from an initial purchase standpoint, they're thinking about iTunes or no iTunes.
WP7 has no killer app on the business front either, with such a limited Office experience (Word/Excel/etc. can make only rudimentary changes to documents, compared to much richer 3rd party editing apps on the iPhone), no Outlook sync support (for offices that don't use Exchange), and an Exchange ActiveSync experience not terribly different from the iPhone's or Android's. I think MS' marketing push highlighting Xbox Live integration will also hurt WP7 on the business credibility front.
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Click to collapse
For the game on windows phone 7,i never worry about this...please go over here and have a lookhttp://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/phone/default.htm...XBOX live integration is not only for XBOX anymore. What Microsoft try to do is create a platform for gamers, like what has bee appeared in iphone,GAME CENTRE and PLUS+...
I think ZUNE integration would be a killer...try the ZUNE software herehttp://www.zune.net/en-us/products/software/download/default.htm
Even, you didn't own a ZUNE, you can use it too. Now ZUNE player already my default music and movie player. It's great and awesome, especially finding album arts, great graphic and etc...Furthermore, what I like is I can play any song in my PC without convert or create a new datastore to store the converted music...and ITUNES did this.omg, it wastes my hard drive spaces.About the market share, same situation again...ZUNE is just for sales in US market. Therefore, can't compare it with itunes store....
However, I might be wrong...Just stay tuned...WP7 gonna launch in this month...
Cheers...
sylau90 said:
For the game on windows phone 7,i never worry about this...please go over here and have a lookhttp://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/phone/default.htm...XBOX live integration is not only for XBOX anymore. What Microsoft try to do is create a platform for gamers, like what has bee appeared in iphone,GAME CENTRE and PLUS+...
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Click to collapse
But that's precisely the problem. What does WP7 offer casual phone gamers that the iPhone doesn't? The iPhone has a large existing game library, multiplayer support, more powerful graphics hardware than all WP7 launch phones, and now even some of the score/achievement tracking that Xbox Live offers.
sylau90 said:
I think ZUNE integration would be a killer...try the ZUNE software here http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/software/download/default.htm
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Click to collapse
Sure, the Zune service and client are nice, but they haven't been compelling enough to gain any real market share in the last few years. Now that Apple has opened up the App Store a bit, several other streaming / subscription services are now available on the iPhone as well.
I'm not saying WP7 won't offer a nice media and gaming experience-- it's just that in order to succeed, MS needs to present a clear and compelling reason people should buy WP7 phones.
The iPhone delivers the smoothest phone UI, huge app library, solid browsing experience, seamless media experience, and simplicity. Android offers choice of form factor and carrier, great integration with Google services (with lots of people use), and almost-WM6-like openness while still offering a smooth user experience).
What does WP7 bring to the table that the iPhone and Android don't?
amb9800 said:
But that's precisely the problem. What does WP7 offer casual phone gamers that the iPhone doesn't? The iPhone has a large existing game library, multiplayer support, more powerful graphics hardware than all WP7 launch phones, and now even some of the score/achievement tracking that Xbox Live offers.
Sure, the Zune service and client are nice, but they haven't been compelling enough to gain any real market share in the last few years. Now that Apple has opened up the App Store a bit, several other streaming / subscription services are now available on the iPhone as well.
I'm not saying WP7 won't offer a nice media and gaming experience-- it's just that in order to succeed, MS needs to present a clear and compelling reason people should buy WP7 phones.
The iPhone delivers the smoothest phone UI, huge app library, solid browsing experience, seamless media experience, and simplicity. Android offers choice of form factor and carrier, great integration with Google services (with lots of people use), and almost-WM6-like openness while still offering a smooth user experience).
What does WP7 bring to the table that the iPhone and Android don't?
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Click to collapse
Yeah, actually, personally I think that Apple and android marketing strategies are far more strong than Microsoft. Furthermore, What I like Apple provided is the frequency of operating system updates. Therefore, we no need to change the handset frequently in order to get the latest updates or functionalities.
However, the frequency of windows phone 7 updates are unknown, nobody knows. However,in here I can say that. Apple, Microsoft and Android using totally different strategies. Since Microsoft didn't manufature their own handsets, they just sell OS to manaufacturers. Therefore, it's unlikely they will provide the update very often. However for Apple,they do manufacture their own handsets, therefore they can focus more on software updates and applications, because all the profit will just go into their pockets.
What Microsoft prepared are the new LIVE TILES UI which I think is the success part, because currently I'm using latest windows live messenger and and zune software. they are awesome.
However, now everyone is enjoying the Apple and Android banquet...let's see what cuisines Microsoft prepared for us...By the way, Dell Lightning with WP7 is a good and sexy device, gonna get one if there is one.
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
juliusaugustus said:
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
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Click to collapse
So does iOS, and that's doing well. Also CDMA will come in time.
juliusaugustus said:
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
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It's not all that expensive...it's $10 dollars that you pass onto the user anyway. Instead of your phone costing 200-300 dollars to manufacture it costs +10 dollars more. The final price for a phone is 500-600...10 dollars more is hardly something to think about.
Also you have to pay for desktop windows, or pay a very high preimum for OSX + hardware....they're both doing better than linux in the PC world.
juliusaugustus said:
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? that hasn't hurt iOS...and this is something that has to do with time...hardware costs become cheaper over time, so eventually these hardware requirements will become cheap to manufacture and it will enter the low end market.
juliusaugustus said:
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows Mobile lost market share because they didn't update it as frequently as they should...then they decided to make a paradigm shift and people slowly abandoned windows mobile since there was no future to the OS.
Also, WM still has a decent market share. It's 6-8% in the states and in the teens in Europe according to some recent reports.
juliusaugustus said:
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one has a crystal ball.
vetvito said:
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
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Click to collapse
To some degree...I like widgets in theory, but in practice I always disable them if a phone OS allows me to and go to something more unified like Titanium. The reason I dislike widgets is that there are no design guidelines for them generally so it makes your start page look like crap. Live tiles are widgets done right imo.
How about you Americans ditch that way outdated technology? There's absolutely no merit apart from device-based tie-in to a provider.
vetvito said:
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where can I download live tile widget for android?can you give me the name?wanna give it a try...
yea,the hubs....and cloud-based service.you are able to sync almost everything to skydrive.
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Tom Servo said:
How about you Americans ditch that way outdated technology? There's absolutely no merit apart from device-based tie-in to a provider.
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Click to collapse
Actually, CDMA is superior in almost any aspect. UMTS (3G) has much more in common with CDMA than with GSM.
sylau90 said:
where can I download live tile widget for android?can you give me the name?wanna give it a try...
yea,the hubs....and cloud-based service.you are able to sync almost everything to skydrive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh, pick one?
vetvito said:
Huh, pick one?
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Click to collapse
Sorry,just now I didn't read your sentence clearly. I thought you said there are some widgets work like live tiles...sorry...haha
jonscapri said:
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To Me that would would be the defination of Apple and Steve Jobs...
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, CDMA support has been confirmed for early 2011. GSM is what over 90% of the world uses so GSM is coming first.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This platform would be chosen over both of those because it's an OS that has that "it just works" factor that everyone loves about the iPhone. It's smooth, has great games, zune, office, etc...
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great thing since it means everyone will be able to run the OS and games smoothly. Prices will drop as hardware matures. $199 is pretty standard for those specs and it's a price many are willing to pay.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both have almost nothing to do with Windows Phone. Kin was a huge failure for two reasons IMO, it had to have a data plan, and it lacked apps and games. Manufacturers are already dropping Symbian and Windows Mobile 6.5 isn't supported my MS anymore. Manufacturers are behind WP7 because it's a complete refresh. It's different and looks fun.
jonscapri said:
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zune Player is a bit more than a skinned WMP. It has themes, marketplace, subscriptions service, and it has more features like SmartDJ. Windows 7 is a great OS. I haven't had any problems with performance or security at all.
The slowness of WP continues to disappoint.
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-copy and paste
-multitasking
-directly installable apps
-business-class security features
In 2010 WP7 was released without these features. In 2011 we will have copy and paste and multitasking. This is a diabolically slow rate of progress. Instead, we have play features like twitter support, ability to wave the phone in front of a TV, great.
Businesses are Microsoft's most important and successful market. When will WP support features for businesses and serious users? 2012? 2013?
The slow rate of progress was cemented in Ballmer's speech today. No wonder Nokia's shares continued to fall. Microsoft could have timed basic feature-completeness to coincide with Nokia's entry. Instead, when their phones come out in late 2011, WP7 will still be a toy OS.
Windows mobile was dying. By focusing on consumers Apple was steadily encroaching into the business users. MS had no option but to ditch Windows mobile and go for the consumer market.
digger1985 said:
Windows mobile was dying. By focusing on consumers Apple was steadily encroaching into the business users. MS had no option but to ditch Windows mobile and go for the consumer market.
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Click to collapse
Honestly, I think windows mobile just need to be refined. It was lacking stability and user interface and hardware quality. The lack of that is the freezes, slow down both short term and long term and ease of use. The combination of improved hardware and improved UI and consistent use would have gone a long way towards core users since most people assume WP7 is WM7 anyways.
The only guess I can take is that they either couldn't recover from the state the code was in or more likely just went the Iphone route. From what I read WM7 was scrapped and Zune developers took over.
why not ask on social.microsoft.com... that is more direct line than here...
i would imagine that they are going to introduce more than just what they've listed. when you are going to give a general roadmap, you would give the big highlights, not everything.
Windows Mobile is most functional moile OS of all time, even Android cannot beat WM on functionality. However, the sales proved that WM is not welcomed by majority of the market. This is reasonnable.
You are using a cell phone. How many calls do you make everyday? Then how many C&Ps?
Just refining WM might not be good enough to save MS on phones.
“True multitasking” drains battery. And whatever perfection the system itself can reach, its stablity cannot survive badly written apps and unlimited modification.
Also there was a problem for WM app ecosystem. Kind like what we are seeing on Android now, maybe worse...
At least there is Office on WP... Also remote lock?
The OP has a good point, and people are just ragging him without even thinking about it.
The rate of progress is slow. Look at the interview with the product manager. Guy should be fired, since he obviously failed in some aspect of his job in handling WP7 development and updates.
They are developing a phone for consumers, and decided to not release a 1st party WLM client, for example.
2 Months later, after they launch WP7, Microsoft releases a 1st party WLM client for iOS, then they releases OneNote for iOS.
Not only is it a slow rate of progress, but they are constantly *****-slapping their own customers. Why get a WP7 device over an Apple iPhone or an Android Phone + iTouch with Wireless Tethering, if Microsoft will give more attention to iOS than WP7. iOS has gotten more "updates" from the Windows Live team than WP7 since WP7 was launched. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Zune app for Mac and a Zune Pass Quasi-App for iOS in a few months, along with XBox Live goodies... At the moment it doesn't seem like they have a clue what direction they want to move in, or what market they want to target to be honest...
It seems disingenuous to sell WP7 to customers and then tell them to wait a year+ for a decent update while you're banging out iOS apps for iPhone/iTouch users...
Probably would have been better for them to just release a better Zune HD and put all of their mobile support behind iOS, IMO. Could have saved their users money, time, and frustration, and allowed them to get work down faster and better.
well copy/paste, multitasking are both coming...C/P in early march and multi-tasking sometime this year...so it's a start. Plus better skydrive integration for all office docs...
CSMR said:
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-directly installable apps
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Click to collapse
The above will never happen on WP7, real business users don't need file system access or USB mass storage support since they use the cloud - either in a hosted capacity or their own private setup. Either way, they always have access to their documents.
Directly installable apps is not something they need either as they will roll out a set package of apps - just look at corporate laptops today, everything comes preinstalled from the IT dept. Now, sure, if you are talking about business apps for "personal" phones for their employees the IT dept rollout will not work, but MS has said they are working on private marketplace support here - sort of like how you get the Samsung or T-Mobile marketplace categories today.
CSMR said:
-copy and paste
-multitasking
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Click to collapse
These are coming thruout the year, but TBH multitasking isn't something used by most WinMo enterprise users. Sure, some do use it for GPS tracking in the background but the vast majority of said users have these devices as a one-trick pony. Take UPS for example, they use them to scan packages, collect signatures and track drivers - that's it. None of which are performed simultaneously.
CSMR said:
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-business-class security features
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do agree with most of these though. Not sure what you mean by business-class security features, but other than that they do need to roll out VPN and enhanced Exchange support. VoIP I'm not so sure about, most business users (even fairly small ones) I've been in contact with already have great plans with their telcos and will route calls thru their local/private exchange.
Omega Ra said:
well copy/paste, multitasking are both coming...C/P in early march and multi-tasking sometime this year...so it's a start. Plus better skydrive integration for all office docs...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do people keep repeating this 10x in every thread, as if we do NOT know what's coming?
We know it's coming. Why is something like that coming, instead of having been launched to begin with. From what I've seen WP7 was in development for like 2 years, considering they did use CE as a base, it seems a bit retarded that stuff like this had to be added in and they are delivering better apps for iOS than WP7 while WP7 customers stand there with blank faces wondering why they have to wait a year to get iOS features when iOS is getting features they want in weeks/months.
emigrating said:
The above will never happen on WP7, real business users don't need file system access or USB mass storage support since they use the cloud - either in a hosted capacity or their own private setup. Either way, they always have access to their documents.
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Click to collapse
Cloud arguments don't get rid of arguments for common file stores. There are files on the cloud and on local storage. Either way, the same file should be accessible by more than one program. That means that the file is "common", not "isolated".
Isolated storage is a terrible restriction, whether it is local or in the cloud. So terrible that Microsoft had to make limited exemptions for particular sorts of content with special apis to be accessed by more than one program (e.g. photos).
Look you can have office workers who just edit spreadsheets and word documents, maybe this is fine for them. But for serious users of technology this is unacceptable. Just think of the history. You had slide rules and other specific calculating devices devices. Then Charles Babbage develops a mechanical computer which is actually Turing complete, then Turing proves that there is this type of computer that can do anything that is computable, then people built these things, and now we are back with - as long as a device can do x,y,z popular tasks we are OK. End rant.
Directly installable apps... MS has said they are working on private marketplace support here - sort of like how you get the Samsung or T-Mobile marketplace categories today.
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Click to collapse
OK let me continue the rant a little. Alan Turing did not envisage a system where for an algorithm to succeed it has to first pass the approval of human censors. It takes the undecidability problem a little too far, don't you think?
Anyway, any improvement is good but what is the timeframe? At some point this will happen, unless the public overtures to homebrew hackers were a mistake.
VoIP I'm not so sure about, most business users (even fairly small ones) I've been in contact with already have great plans with their telcos and will route calls thru their local/private exchange.
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Click to collapse
You can work your way around it but nothing is better than a native solution.
Anyway, yes this stuff is important to businesses, some more than others, but the rest are important to power users, anyone who wants to use the device as more than a feature phone, who is not Mr. Average and at some point may want to do something that Mr. Average does not do. Mr. Average may have money on average, and power in democracies, but people who are not Mr. Average are also important, in fact far more so for the world.
I agree with all your points.
It's fine not to have the features at launch but they must add them quickly. The argument that some like to use that WP7 is new & to just be patient is wearing thin. WP7 is competing with the IPhone & Android of today not of yesterday, so why should customers bother waiting too long for features already available on competing products? The UI is great but not spectacularly better IMO.
I want WP7 to succeed but the clock is ticking & MS only has a limited amount of time to make it a hit.
N8ter said:
The OP has a good point, and people are just ragging him without even thinking about it.
The rate of progress is slow. Look at the interview with the product manager. Guy should be fired, since he obviously failed in some aspect of his job in handling WP7 development and updates.
They are developing a phone for consumers, and decided to not release a 1st party WLM client, for example.
2 Months later, after they launch WP7, Microsoft releases a 1st party WLM client for iOS, then they releases OneNote for iOS.
Not only is it a slow rate of progress, but they are constantly *****-slapping their own customers. Why get a WP7 device over an Apple iPhone or an Android Phone + iTouch with Wireless Tethering, if Microsoft will give more attention to iOS than WP7. iOS has gotten more "updates" from the Windows Live team than WP7 since WP7 was launched. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Zune app for Mac and a Zune Pass Quasi-App for iOS in a few months, along with XBox Live goodies... At the moment it doesn't seem like they have a clue what direction they want to move in, or what market they want to target to be honest...
It seems disingenuous to sell WP7 to customers and then tell them to wait a year+ for a decent update while you're banging out iOS apps for iPhone/iTouch users...
Probably would have been better for them to just release a better Zune HD and put all of their mobile support behind iOS, IMO. Could have saved their users money, time, and frustration, and allowed them to get work down faster and better.
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Click to collapse
N8ter said:
Why do people keep repeating this 10x in every thread, as if we do NOT know what's coming?
We know it's coming. Why is something like that coming, instead of having been launched to begin with. From what I've seen WP7 was in development for like 2 years, considering they did use CE as a base, it seems a bit retarded that stuff like this had to be added in and they are delivering better apps for iOS than WP7 while WP7 customers stand there with blank faces wondering why they have to wait a year to get iOS features when iOS is getting features they want in weeks/months.
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and why do you have to keep repeating post after post that wp7 should have included c/p , this and that blah blah blah? I know why you want c/p so that you dont have to right the same thing over and over again lols.....
leowp7 said:
and why do you have to keep repeating post after post that wp7 should have included c/p , this and that blah blah blah? I know why you want c/p so that you dont have to right the same thing over and over again lols.....
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Click to collapse
An you still have nothing of value to add to the discussion. Life must hate you.
Here's a razor. You know what to do with it
CSMR said:
Cloud arguments don't get rid of arguments for common file stores. There are files on the cloud and on local storage. Either way, the same file should be accessible by more than one program. That means that the file is "common", not "isolated".
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Click to collapse
Agreed - but that's a whole different can of worms. What I was commenting on was getting content onto your phone in the first place. I fully agree there should be a shared store accessible by any installed application.
CSMR said:
You can work your way around it but nothing is better than a native solution.
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Click to collapse
Again, I agree. But in my experience businesses (at least here) have free connectivity between their mobile devices and their offices. More and more these days there are no landlines available at all, everyone uses mobile which is routed thru a local (ie. corporate) switch.
CSMR said:
Anyway, yes this stuff is important to businesses, some more than others, but the rest are important to power users, anyone who wants to use the device as more than a feature phone, who is not Mr. Average and at some point may want to do something that Mr. Average does not do. Mr. Average may have money on average, and power in democracies, but people who are not Mr. Average are also important, in fact far more so for the world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is where we don't agree
Power-users - or early-adopters; they are generally the same people - are not generating [direct] revenue and as such their usage patterns are not of great importance initially. What they do do is drive demand for these features down to an average level, so at some point it will become mainstream, but not today.
N8ter said:
An you still have nothing of value to add to the discussion. Life must hate you.
Here's a razor. You know what to do with it
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Click to collapse
thats so uncalled for.....
leowp7 said:
thats so uncalled for.....
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Click to collapse
I deal with "uncalled for" things thrown at me on this forum all the time. I'm not crying about it. I'd edit it out, but since you quoted it instead of PMing me it's not worth it.
Report it to a moderator. I'll eat my infraction if they feel they need to issue one. /shruggery/
CSMR said:
The slowness of WP continues to disappoint.
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-copy and paste
-multitasking
-directly installable apps
-business-class security features
In 2010 WP7 was released without these features. In 2011 we will have copy and paste and multitasking. This is a diabolically slow rate of progress. Instead, we have play features like twitter support, ability to wave the phone in front of a TV, great.
Businesses are Microsoft's most important and successful market. When will WP support features for businesses and serious users? 2012? 2013?
The slow rate of progress was cemented in Ballmer's speech today. No wonder Nokia's shares continued to fall. Microsoft could have timed basic feature-completeness to coincide with Nokia's entry. Instead, when their phones come out in late 2011, WP7 will still be a toy OS.
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Click to collapse
I have not read the following posts so forgive me if this point has been made but this sort of thread gripes me so so bad.
WINDOWS PHONE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT! WINDOWS MOBILE
It is aimed at general consumers more than business much like the iphone. Windows Mobile will have a new version out some point this year as it is not windows phone and is still being developed.
Please for gods sake keep this whole delusion that WP7 is anything to do with WM6.5 out of your heads.
lumpaywk said:
I have not read the following posts so forgive me if this point has been made but this sort of thread gripes me so so bad.
WINDOWS PHONE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT! WINDOWS MOBILE
It is aimed at general consumers more than business much like the iphone. Windows Mobile will have a new version out some point this year as it is not windows phone and is still being developed.
Please for gods sake keep this whole delusion that WP7 is anything to do with WM6.5 out of your heads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's no delusion that 6.5 is far superior to WP7, as of now.
amtrakcn said:
Windows Mobile is most functional moile OS of all time, even Android cannot beat WM on functionality. However, the sales proved that WM is not welcomed by majority of the market. This is reasonnable.
You are using a cell phone. How many calls do you make everyday? Then how many C&Ps?
Just refining WM might not be good enough to save MS on phones.
“True multitasking” drains battery. And whatever perfection the system itself can reach, its stablity cannot survive badly written apps and unlimited modification.
Also there was a problem for WM app ecosystem. Kind like what we are seeing on Android now, maybe worse...
At least there is Office on WP... Also remote lock?
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what functionality are you refering to that every other phone OS hasn't had for 2plus years ?
I make/receive on average 1 phone call a day, while I copy/paste at least 20 times a day.
N8ter said:
I deal with "uncalled for" things thrown at me on this forum all the time. I'm not crying about it. I'd edit it out, but since you quoted it instead of PMing me it's not worth it.
Report it to a moderator. I'll eat my infraction if they feel they need to issue one. /shruggery/
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Click to collapse
1. im not crying about anything, just stating the obvious
2. I feel anyone should be allowed to say what they think, so are you, but why the need for the bully factor?
Alright folks lets get this straight..
Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much. But whats the reason? its pretty simple:
People want APPS not just apps, but whats the difference?
We see Microsoft advertising their software (skype, skydrive etc) all the time but with the iphone in front of it, there is no sign of supporting their own ecosystem!!!!
The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has. Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements!
I actually think that if MS were to tie Google services in a bit tighter (counter-productive to Bing, I know) they'd see a wider adoption.
WP7 is at a disadvantage as Android and iOS had time to 'mature' in the market and get the userbase using their respective services before the WP alternative even existed. I know personally, I migrated away from MS services like Hotmail once I stopped using WinMo 6.
Without support for competitors services, there's not even an inclination to 'jump ship' and experience the other side. I enjoy using WP7 a lot - there's no more fluid experience on the market today. But because I can't properly use all my (now Google) services, I can never daily drive it.
yes thats also a good point! if they would work together with google in "peace" users would be more thankful. In europe bing is useless to be honest
Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them.
Years of... *shudder*... windows mobile. That was an extremely extremely niche platform. iPhone-type users (their new target) ran away screaming.
The Lumia 900 should've been the device that launched the whole thing. Not one that came out 1.5 years after, and that followed it's little brother. 800 first? So people see it, aren't impressed, then see an ad for the 900... which is indistinguishable to people (present company excepted of course). It's just been ****ty luck and history mixed with bad marketing decisions.
Its Microsoft’s own fault things are the way they are. With Windows Mobile they didn't consider the phone market to serious until they saw Apples success but then they still came late to the game because instead of making Windows Mobile better they decided they would scrap it and come up with something new; only thing was that even though Windows Phone is faster and doesn’t freeze as much, they took away all features and functionality that people were used to. With Microsoft being so busy trying to be like Apple, Android took advantage of that; they knew that people didn't want a locked down OS. It is a shame that I have to hack, mod and flash my phone to have simple stuff like BT file transfer, video MMS, and a lot of other simple stuff that's avilabe for other phone OS's out there. I hope they don't screw up Windows Phone 8 like they did with Windows Phone 7.
I'm not at all worried about it. What you're seeing is the calm before the storm. When Windows 8 launches, Metro will be the new UI seen in every corner of the globe. The attention it will draw will bring more attention to Windows Phone--probably 8--at the same time. In the same launch window, and with the Windows Phone 8 OS, we'll finally see WP devices get hardware parity with Android devices, supporting multiple cores and large quantities of memory.
SkyDrive and Live Apps services are evolving week by week and making tremendous strides in a very short span of time. We're already using the SkyDrive app on current desktops and laptops, making it easy to move important files to Windows 8, and use documents across all our Microsoft connected devices.
It's correct to say that Windows Phone's struggles have all been Microsoft's own fault for lollygagging in the marketplace. There's no denying that, Microsoft screwed up. But they're heading in the right direction now, and it's only a matter of time before things turn around
I would say with market share that has doubled in the first quarter of 2012 in the USA and market share going up all around the world, that for a new ecosystem in the mobile world it is actually doing fairly well. With WP8 just around the corner and it being able to support much better hardware and screens and more customisation I would say that number will start to go up even quicker, it will be the 3rd ecosystem for sure fairly soon, It may even jump to 2 in certain countries around the world.
bassembrace said:
Alright folks lets get this straight..
Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We need to see Q2 global sales. I haven't bought a smartphone in YEARS and I finally jumped on the Windows Phone/Nokia bandwagon.
bassembrace said:
The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has.
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Click to collapse
Maybe. Statistics have shown most apps are never used a couple of weeks after they are downloaded. The ridiculous app numbers quoted for iOS are pointless. The vast majority of them, 99%, have zero utility for me.
bassembrace said:
Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Marketing.
Beta was better than VHS. VHS won. The sheeple don't care about quality. It's not a case of "if you build it they will come." It is a case of "if you market it they will come." Anyone that holds a Lumia 900 up next to ANY iPhone and determines the iPhone is better is insane. Girlfriend has iPhone 4S. She saw my Lumia 900. She wanted one. Simple as that. You add in the fact the Lumia was FREE for weeks and you really need your head examined if you don't give it serious consideration. FREE Nokia drive?! Same GF had to pay $40.00 for Garmin app for a recent trip. That's $40 more than I paid for my phone and FREE nokia drive. Do NOT get me started on LTE.
The best does not always win. I just want three strong ecosystems competing. Watch what happens. iPhone 5 gonna come out with much larger screen. If not they are going to look silly next to Lumia 900 and Samsung Note. Samsung Note is redonkulous.
jasongw said:
I'm not at all worried about it. What you're seeing is the calm before the storm. When Windows 8 launches, Metro will be the new UI seen in every corner of the globe. The attention it will draw will bring more attention to Windows Phone--probably 8--at the same time. In the same launch window, and with the Windows Phone 8 OS, we'll finally see WP devices get hardware parity with Android devices, supporting multiple cores and large quantities of memory.
SkyDrive and Live Apps services are evolving week by week and making tremendous strides in a very short span of time. We're already using the SkyDrive app on current desktops and laptops, making it easy to move important files to Windows 8, and use documents across all our Microsoft connected devices.
It's correct to say that Windows Phone's struggles have all been Microsoft's own fault for lollygagging in the marketplace. There's no denying that, Microsoft screwed up. But they're heading in the right direction now, and it's only a matter of time before things turn around
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope your right and I also hope no more of this Apple style locked down crap either. What MS has failed to remember is that WM had a very faithful following because it was way better and user friendly than the iCrap.
Not another one. Dig up threads from 2 years ago, and you'll see people with the exact same arguments.
Either way I look forward to BB and WP8.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
sure haven't said:
Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them.
Years of... *shudder*... windows mobile. That was an extremely extremely niche platform. iPhone-type users (their new target) ran away screaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me get this laid out so I can understand:
Why is Windows Phone not doing well?
"Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them."
- So then why is Windows 7, the OS that actually is in the exact same product space, doing fantastically well?
Honestly, guys, if an argument has to be made there really needs to be some kind of logical progression to it.
Windows Phone is not doing well like every single OS not called "Android" or "iOS" because those are the most dominant OSes right now. Why are they dominant? Because Apple recreated the whole thumb optimized, mass-market smartphone experience and Google quickly followed suit. Everyone else (BB OS, Palm, Symbian, WinMo) were all caught napping and look are where they are now. When you bring Microsoft unique reasons you are failing to explain why RIM is also slowly dying as well. why Nokia killed off Symbian. Why WebOS could not make it.
I wish someone would put a sticky stating exactly why Windows Phone has such a low marketshare right now:
Android and iOs have the lion's share of the market. Either an iPhone or one of the hundreds of Android phones meet or exceed the average user's needs in a smartphone. There is no compelling reason right now for the average consumer to leave iOS or Android and go to Windows Phone.
There really is no mystery behind it. It is plain and simple. A co-worker just got a Samsung Focus used and his first reaction was "wow this thing is fast and smooth." I told him amazing too on a single core cpu. He has played with his share of Android phones. He then went on to curse having to use Zune to do his file management. lol.
But there is nothing really to dwell on. Vet is right; this topic is past being a dead horse. The Lumia 900 gave a little glimmer of something that would compel some people to switch, but there needs to be more handsets, features, and apps. And then they will come over. And that will take time.
Lets hope they will do it! I remember when i got my hd7 my friends were like "whoaaa, you have windows phone!!" but now after they used my phone a few times theyre like "oh you still have this phone?" and i say yes because i love it, i love the OS and even the HD7 hardware but you cant do so much withouth the "exclusive" apps. I hope MCSFT get the most important cross platform apps to windows phone and dont scr** them up, like skype with no notification and background system or the new app viber without VOIP
Window mobile phone not going down at all. I honestly like what Microsoft's doing. There not pushing pointless apps out, there not shipping out phones that's loading with battery killing/memory hog apps.
Only thing that there behind in and my opinion is the build quality. 8G of memory no micro SD card slot! That's kills a perfect phone! If Ur going to do that - Microsoft, make an 8G, 16G, 32G, and 64G version
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
So if all of this is true why do they market Windows Phone to not be in beta?
Because even in this, "beta" of sorts it runs smoother and is a better device than the competition.
Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.
With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).
Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/
z33dev33l said:
Because even in this, "beta" of sorts it runs smoother and is a better device than the competition.
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Click to collapse
So true! I was playing with the lumia 710 at an T-Mobile kiosk at the mall, and i fell in love. I wanted to leave my phone there and run away with the 710.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
magicsquid said:
Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.
With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).
Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great post is great.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
nicksti said:
Let me get this laid out so I can understand:
Why is Windows Phone not doing well?
"Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them."
- So then why is Windows 7, the OS that actually is in the exact same product space, doing fantastically well?
Honestly, guys, if an argument has to be made there really needs to be some kind of logical progression to it.
Windows Phone is not doing well like every single OS not called "Android" or "iOS" because those are the most dominant OSes right now. Why are they dominant? Because Apple recreated the whole thumb optimized, mass-market smartphone experience and Google quickly followed suit. Everyone else (BB OS, Palm, Symbian, WinMo) were all caught napping and look are where they are now. When you bring Microsoft unique reasons you are failing to explain why RIM is also slowly dying as well. why Nokia killed off Symbian. Why WebOS could not make it.
I wish someone would put a sticky stating exactly why Windows Phone has such a low marketshare right now:
Android and iOs have the lion's share of the market. Either an iPhone or one of the hundreds of Android phones meet or exceed the average user's needs in a smartphone. There is no compelling reason right now for the average consumer to leave iOS or Android and go to Windows Phone.
There really is no mystery behind it. It is plain and simple. A co-worker just got a Samsung Focus used and his first reaction was "wow this thing is fast and smooth." I told him amazing too on a single core cpu. He has played with his share of Android phones. He then went on to curse having to use Zune to do his file management. lol.
But there is nothing really to dwell on. Vet is right; this topic is past being a dead horse. The Lumia 900 gave a little glimmer of something that would compel some people to switch, but there needs to be more handsets, features, and apps. And then they will come over. And that will take time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They still don't get it. 2 years and they don't get it.
BTW the new app deal by Nokia is horrible. MS should be doing it for the entire platform not just for Nokia. Some apps will be exclusive until 2013.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
vetvito said:
Not another one. Dig up threads from 2 years ago, and you'll see people with the exact same arguments.
Either way I look forward to BB and WP8.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 ...Yes ..another one !!!
Get a life m8's No its not going down ..
So the nokia lumia 900 have been out now for months, the title of the thread says it: is there a jailbreak or its equivalent for the lumia 900? if not, is it coming in the future??
Thanks
bertin89 said:
So the nokia lumia 900 have been out now for months, the title of the thread says it: is there a jailbreak or its equivalent for the lumia 900? if not, is it coming in the future??
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ummm...<looking over my shoulder> ....is this your first windows phone....
bertin89 said:
So the nokia lumia 900 have been out now for months, the title of the thread says it: is there a jailbreak or its equivalent for the lumia 900? if not, is it coming in the future??
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sideloading, it's called a DEV unlock. MS stopped supported it a little bit ago.
http://labs.chevronwp7.com
actually you can still dev unlock your nokia lumia 900, just there isnt much you can do that way.
92GTA said:
Sideloading, it's called a DEV unlock. MS stopped supported it a little bit ago.
http://labs.chevronwp7.com
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Click to collapse
I think you might be a touched mixed up here. Dev Unlock is still available. It requires registration with MS via marketplace, and does cost $$, though there are several options. The Chevron unlock took advantage of a hole in the OS Scheme to produce a similar unlock. Microsoft did close that hole in NODO I believe. For a short while a variation of the Chevron unlock was available, with support from MS. I believe this has now expired and is no longer available.
Whether or not a true jail break will be available for the lumia is unknown. MS appears to have put a good deal of effort into this type of security. This is not to say it won't be broken. Also, to say the great minds of XDA are on it. Maybe some of the great minds, most likely few to none. Most of the great minds of XDA are android based, where hacking, modding and rooting, though not exactly easy, is common.
With all that said, I'd like to believe, nothing is really impossible...except may be the Cubs winning the World Series.
It is somewhat ironic that the most secure platform (to date) is the least supported. You'd think developers would be more inclined to produce for a platform where their software isn't likely to be pirated. Obviously there is the issue of WP selling less than iOs or Android phones but that's due to lack of apps!
This is my first Windows Phone and so far loving it and I would not want to pirat any software.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
danmoz98 said:
It is somewhat ironic that the most secure platform (to date) is the least supported. You'd think developers would be more inclined to produce for a platform where their software isn't likely to be pirated. Obviously there is the issue of WP selling less than iOs or Android phones but that's due to lack of apps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is an interesting point.. I guess they (developers) care more about volume, than anything else.
People seem to love the platform tho.. You rearly hear people complain about WP, so that is indeed good news for Microsoft and Nokia.. the developers will follow the consumers.
danmoz98 said:
It is somewhat ironic that the most secure platform (to date) is the least supported. You'd think developers would be more inclined to produce for a platform where their software isn't likely to be pirated. Obviously there is the issue of WP selling less than iOs or Android phones but that's due to lack of apps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are always opinions by closet experts as to why things are the way they are. I can recall when Android came out...everyone laughed...Same for iPhone, both have gone on to change the industry.
I'm of the personal opinion that Windows Phone's place in the world is less about Android and Apple and more about Microsoft. Microsoft, for whatever reason, gave away the smart phone market. Perhaps through lack of foresite...or perhaps indifference, it doesn't matter. They went from First to Worst.
As you look at a renewed Microsoft, and the progress it has made attempting to catch up, you have to be impressed. Google and Apple have a keen idea looking straight at the Windows Phone. In 2 years they've gone from Gen 1 laughers( just like android) to competitive models, without sacrificing their core goals.
The list of complaints about Windows Phone is interesting:
-No customization
-Rooting
-No apps.
I'm really not sure how important they are in the scheme of things. You want a picture of your dog or grandma on the home screen....hmmmm
No rooting....what this breaks down to is trying to get something for free. How can I hotload ...sideload...a favorite app...or by pass the fee for tethering...
No Apps. Just how many apps do you need? The MS Marketplace is approaching 100k apps.Everyday, more and more name apps are coming to Windows Phone. How is this any different from what Android and Apple did? They did not have a full library for years.
In the Hardware range, the biggest complaints are:
-No dual/Quad Core
-No SD card
-Lack of Hardware offerings
Microsoft has said, they will not offer dual/quad core until they can resolve the battery issues. I do not want to be one of those people who says... " Hey, I got a Quad core thingy"....whose battery last 45 minutes. A small core of hardcore people use their phones to a more fuller potential than MOST other people. Using cloud storage and streaming, office integration...exchange and enterprise mails with Cloud capabilities. My girlfriend uses her Samsung Focus S more fully than I do my lumia. She runs an entire HR department, from her phone. It's amazing.
No SD card. This is a good one. We all want the ability to carry our stuff with us. But SD card integration is a hack. Its a hack in tablets, It's a hack in phones. Microsoft has said, until they can integrate it seemlessly, its not part of the design of their phones. Apple doesn't do it. People respect them. Android does do it....And Android is another word for hack.
Lack of Hardware: Is not exactly the fault of MS, Android or Apple. They write their wishlist. The OEMs come back with the designs. It was very obvious, Gen 1 got the bottom of the barrell. This years Mango's releases, got better. WP 8 should see competitive hardware and design.
Once the hardware for WP is on par with the 10,000 yearly Android releases, then the real battle will begin. I read something about xbox the other day....xbox sells more games than sony and nintendo combined. And Xbox is replacing Zune, extending into TV, and has a huge focus on the Marketplace.
The bottom line reality is this, in my opinion. Its all about $$. Android is attractive because, to the OEM, its free. Apple and WP both cost the OEM $$. But, Android is the least reliable hardware out there. Apple may be reliable and attractive, but it costs more...way more to the OEM. They are looking for a viable competitor. WP falls in the middle, with the added luxuary of being able to sync directly with a PC, Laptop, and I bet, a Tablet.
I think the odds of WP being way more successful in the future is strong...regardless of the number of apps. Do you really need 45,000 weather apps to scroll through, before you decide to download Weather Channel?
lumia 900
Hi all new to this forum, recently. Bought. The lumia and love it compared to my last phone (android os). I came across a site called mobile9 that did themes for the lumia. I loved all the different choices of tiled live themes but to no avail I could not download the xap file as windows doesn't support it. I looked everywhere and came about chevron wp7 I sent the cert file to my phone in an email and saved the cert to my phone all looked promising untill the next bit. I was required to open the chevron.exe file it came up with two tick boxes one for a pin lock check and one for something else. I clicked the unlock button and it came up with a oops error saying make sure my usb is connected which it was and make sure Zune is up which it was. It says that it can't connect coz of that. So if anybody knows what else I can do to get those groovy tiles on my phone then help please and in laymens terms as I don't understand technical jargon. Hope someone. Can help real frustrated.
spampocket said:
Hi all new to this forum, recently. Bought. The lumia and love it compared to my last phone (android os). I came across a site called mobile9 that did themes for the lumia. I loved all the different choices of tiled live themes but to no avail I could not download the xap file as windows doesn't support it. I looked everywhere and came about chevron wp7 I sent the cert file to my phone in an email and saved the cert to my phone all looked promising untill the next bit. I was required to open the chevron.exe file it came up with two tick boxes one for a pin lock check and one for something else. I clicked the unlock button and it came up with a oops error saying make sure my usb is connected which it was and make sure Zune is up which it was. It says that it can't connect coz of that. So if anybody knows what else I can do to get those groovy tiles on my phone then help please and in laymens terms as I don't understand technical jargon. Hope someone. Can help real frustrated.
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Probably can't use it anymore http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1598062&page=2 and you needed a token from here http://labs.chevronwp7.com/ to use it in the first place.
alodar1 said:
There are always opinions by closet experts as to why things are the way they are. I can recall when Android came out...everyone laughed...Same for iPhone, both have gone on to change the industry.
I'm of the personal opinion that Windows Phone's place in the world is less about Android and Apple and more about Microsoft. Microsoft, for whatever reason, gave away the smart phone market. Perhaps through lack of foresite...or perhaps indifference, it doesn't matter. They went from First to Worst.
As you look at a renewed Microsoft, and the progress it has made attempting to catch up, you have to be impressed. Google and Apple have a keen idea looking straight at the Windows Phone. In 2 years they've gone from Gen 1 laughers( just like android) to competitive models, without sacrificing their core goals.
The list of complaints about Windows Phone is interesting:
-No customization
-Rooting
-No apps.
I'm really not sure how important they are in the scheme of things. You want a picture of your dog or grandma on the home screen....hmmmm
No rooting....what this breaks down to is trying to get something for free. How can I hotload ...sideload...a favorite app...or by pass the fee for tethering...
No Apps. Just how many apps do you need? The MS Marketplace is approaching 100k apps.Everyday, more and more name apps are coming to Windows Phone. How is this any different from what Android and Apple did? They did not have a full library for years.
In the Hardware range, the biggest complaints are:
-No dual/Quad Core
-No SD card
-Lack of Hardware offerings
Microsoft has said, they will not offer dual/quad core until they can resolve the battery issues. I do not want to be one of those people who says... " Hey, I got a Quad core thingy"....whose battery last 45 minutes. A small core of hardcore people use their phones to a more fuller potential than MOST other people. Using cloud storage and streaming, office integration...exchange and enterprise mails with Cloud capabilities. My girlfriend uses her Samsung Focus S more fully than I do my lumia. She runs an entire HR department, from her phone. It's amazing.
No SD card. This is a good one. We all want the ability to carry our stuff with us. But SD card integration is a hack. Its a hack in tablets, It's a hack in phones. Microsoft has said, until they can integrate it seemlessly, its not part of the design of their phones. Apple doesn't do it. People respect them. Android does do it....And Android is another word for hack.
Lack of Hardware: Is not exactly the fault of MS, Android or Apple. They write their wishlist. The OEMs come back with the designs. It was very obvious, Gen 1 got the bottom of the barrell. This years Mango's releases, got better. WP 8 should see competitive hardware and design.
Once the hardware for WP is on par with the 10,000 yearly Android releases, then the real battle will begin. I read something about xbox the other day....xbox sells more games than sony and nintendo combined. And Xbox is replacing Zune, extending into TV, and has a huge focus on the Marketplace.
The bottom line reality is this, in my opinion. Its all about $$. Android is attractive because, to the OEM, its free. Apple and WP both cost the OEM $$. But, Android is the least reliable hardware out there. Apple may be reliable and attractive, but it costs more...way more to the OEM. They are looking for a viable competitor. WP falls in the middle, with the added luxuary of being able to sync directly with a PC, Laptop, and I bet, a Tablet.
I think the odds of WP being way more successful in the future is strong...regardless of the number of apps. Do you really need 45,000 weather apps to scroll through, before you decide to download Weather Channel?
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Excellent post. Very much how I feel after using ICS, IOS for years.
Happily a WP7 user and will NEVER go back.
EMINENT1 said:
Excellent post. Very much how I feel after using ICS, IOS for years.
Happily a WP7 user and will NEVER go back.
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Thank you. However, I was a first generation Adopter, from, WM 6.5. I was NOT happy. I ran to Android and stayed there for a year. That year seemed like 5 though. I went through...oh heck....you see my sig line. There is something to be said for a phone that just works.
There will always be phones that have features you wish yours had. But, I very much try to be fair about it, meaning....do I want that ability to by pass fees....or do I truely think that phone is better. For me the Nexus 1 was awesome....I still have it. When the hacks took over and started mucking with it....some of the functionality lost its luster....and the excitment about a phone that works disappeared.
I'll be honest here.....since I got my Samsung Focus S, coming over from a Droid Bionic, I have not looked at an Android. I was focued solely on WP. When the 900 came out....I've looked at nothing else. I have had to adjust my impressions of the phones....instead of thinking ...whats next....I now think...what can I do. I've experienced no lack of focus or functionality with my Lumia since I turned it on. Using the cloud, I now use it for about 80% of all my electronic needs away from the Desktop computer at work. I turn on the laptop at home occasionally. I have a Kindle Fire, yes, a droid, for my reading pleasure. But Windows Phone has solidified my preference for a simple solid device...that does not require hacking to extend functionality or evade costs. Thats not a jab at people who do root. I've just grown tired of it. Want wifi to really work....install this hack. What to tether...for free...install this hack..but don't complain about what you can't do afterwards...
I like the direction of Windows Phone. Its not perfect, wasn't designed to be. But I am looking forward to WP8 and Win8 tablets and integration across the board. Its just simple...and it just works...
@Alodar1
I like what you wrote in this thread!
I am expecting a Lumia 900 in the mail, but was surprised that WP7 does not allow WIFI to stay on after sleep. Now I am considering selling the 900 since I find myself a lot of times in areas with no reception and where WIFI is abundant (university campus).
Ringtones
Number one reason for me to jailbreak my Lumia 900 is to assign full songs as ringtones. No, please don't tell me cut & edit songs it's a chores, really. I want it just touch and pick. Yes, I am still using my HTC android phone to date and the lumia is for Tom & Jerry entertainment D). If the Lumia 900 is announced non-upgrade-able to Apollo then mine will go on craigslist. I bet many lumia 900 owners will be pissed as well.
My first smartphone ever was a WinMo and I say that I would defend Microsoft mobile platform. However, WinPhone isn't really inbetween iOS and Android in terms of functionality. iOS locks everything down along with Apple the only hardware maker. Android has flash and other goodies customizations and comes in many forms from different OEMs. WinPhone, really, is just a locked down optimized OS and different form factors! It doesn't get popular because it doesn't have goodies on both side, namely, FLASH. Form factor isn't enough to buy Android users, and locked down system won't sway iOS users either, because WinPhone comes quite late into the game. Honestly, integrating flash and allowing freedom of ringtones would make WinPhone more attractive to the average consumers (they want to visit flash videos on the go, they want to hear their custom ringtones). Bottom line is WinPhone offers nothing new, feature wise, to the mobile world... Plus, Microsoft made a very bad move with initial WinPhone release: an incomplete OS. The result was obvious that it couldn't compete with the other two established mobile platforms and lost its ground even further.
Damn, had no idea how important, full length custom ringtones were. Took me 15 minutes to make nine of them. And there are apps that will pluck clips from the Internet for you, or even do the editing part for your full length tracks. Full length ringtones are resource hogs. And have no place in WP.
Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express
I agree with those who have issue with certain customization issues. What I want from my 900 is the ability to add whatever ringtones I want, whatever sounds for sms alerts I want and a full blown file explorer.
I don't care about locks and I don't care about paying for apps. As far as I'm concerned, someone took the time to make the app it only makes sense they get paid for it. I view apps the same way I view music. If it's a quality product I'll gladly pay for it. ...don't get me started on what I think if it's not a quality product.
All that being said I want to be able to add sounds I want to be able to add and organize my pictures (the way I want) and I want to be able to add the apps I want. (some perfectly good third party apps that aren't on the marketplace for whatever reason, I'm speaking of the batter percentage app)
All this said I love my 900 and I do hope Apollo will solve the couple of minor issues because if it does, well it will just be that much better now won't it.
xsever said:
@Alodar1
I like what you wrote in this thread!
I am expecting a Lumia 900 in the mail, but was surprised that WP7 does not allow WIFI to stay on after sleep. Now I am considering selling the 900 since I find myself a lot of times in areas with no reception and where WIFI is abundant (university campus).
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And if it doesn't work for you, you should move to something that does. Its why you buy certain phones in the first place. I've never thought about WIFI. I have strong wifi at home and at work....so I never really miss anything. I might have to do a test sometime...to see how I could be impacted with wifi off, during a rest period....it may change my mind....
jimski said:
Damn, had no idea how important, full length custom ringtones were. Took me 15 minutes to make nine of them. And there are apps that will pluck clips from the Internet for you, or even do the editing part for your full length tracks. Full length ringtones are resource hogs. And have no place in WP.
Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express
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Anyone who wants custom ringtones and make them pretty quick for their windows phone there is an app called YouRang which is very easy to use and its GREAT!!! also you can make ringtones quickly!
xsever said:
@Alodar1
I like what you wrote in this thread!
I am expecting a Lumia 900 in the mail, but was surprised that WP7 does not allow WIFI to stay on after sleep. Now I am considering selling the 900 since I find myself a lot of times in areas with no reception and where WIFI is abundant (university campus).
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you heard wrong
my wifi is always on and working in the background