Develop Bugs

Microsoft can remotely revoke app licenses

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/17/windows-phone-marketplace-can-remotely-revoke-app-licenses/
This is the one thing I hate the most about Apple and their iPhone and now Microsoft are doing the same.
They will be able to revoke any app licenses from the Marketplace. They can basically control what you have on your phone and if for some reason they decide they don't like a particular app? License Revoked...

...remember the marketplace protection?

Hopefully, it'll keep the bulls**t apps to a minimum. I hope MS doesn't take some moral high-road though

They have had this ability on Windows Mobile as well, to send a kill signal.

LJKelley said:
They have had this ability on Windows Mobile as well, to send a kill signal.
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This sort of Amazonian chicanery is why I don't buy anything from the marketplace (I do use it for freeware). I buy direct from developers. The difference is, that won't be an option for WP7S.

fortunz said:
This sort of Amazonian chicanery is why I don't buy anything from the marketplace (I do use it for freeware). I buy direct from developers. The difference is, that won't be an option for WP7S.
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Click to collapse
Actually it is inherit in the OS since atleast 6.5, and has nothing do with the marketplace (though I'm sure it ads another level). http://www.focusoft.biz/2009/09/18/...hone-and-android-with-its-own-app-kill-switch
Though I recall a dicussion regarding platform security and this remote kill as far back as the original Orange SPV, the first ever Microsoft smartphone.
Though Android and iPhone also have this. So what platform you going to move to?
I guess maybe a rooted and heavily modified Android?

WhyBe said:
Hopefully, it'll keep the bulls**t apps to a minimum. I hope MS doesn't take some moral high-road though
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Click to collapse
yeah i know i want a nice positions app, if u know what i mean...i was looking at this iphone app called 69 positions today & i want something like that on wp7

LJKelley said:
Actually it is inherit in the OS since atleast 6.5, and has nothing do with the marketplace (though I'm sure it ads another level). http://www.focusoft.biz/2009/09/18/...hone-and-android-with-its-own-app-kill-switch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong, it is about marketplace applications. They can't kill an application on 6.5 that hasn't rec'd marketplace DRM, or even know it exists on your handheld for that matter.
Android is capable of sideloading, the problem is I'm not sure there is any real market for apps outside their marketplace. That you technically can go outside their central store doesn't mean there's a useful selection there to choose from. On winmo of course, the culture was such you could almost always go direct to the developer, or at least to a 3rd party marketplace even after MS got their central store. I won't be getting rid of my TP2 any time soon, but when I do I'll be looking for the least restrictive DRM among other things. I know DRM has never prevented piracy and only punishes customers, and I'll always do as little as possible to reward that kind of behaviour from companies. It's usually a "lessor evil" analysis.

WinMo has had a app killswitch in it for a very long time. It's used by Exchange/Mobile Device Manager to enforce application policies on the phones, e.g. prevent employees from installing anything other than what came on the phone.

I moved this thread that has nothing at all to do with software development to the more general forum.
Software development would be more like, How do I access the functions, and how is Microsoft implementing and applying these.

Are emulators allowed in the WP7 marketplace?

Please see title. Does Microsoft's ToS allow them in the marketplace, like with Android's Marketplace or are they banned like in the iOS App Store?
Seems like WP7 is considerably more optimized than Android, and should be able to give beter performance.

If an emulator falls under "Unauthorized use of another entity‟s intellectual property, including but not limited to: software, music, art, and other copyrighted, trademarked or patented materials or trade secrets." then it's not allowed on the marketplace.
You can read the doc at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=183220

Heh, I expected some sort of vague, far-reaching rule like that. So basically it's up to Microsoft's interpretation.
Thanks for the help.

so what happens if, someone develops an app or game or whatever and it doesn't get accepted into the market. Is there going to be or is there already some kind of 3rd party market (similar to Cydia, Installer etc.) for Win Mobile 7?

There is no side loading allowed right now. If you are a registered developer you can load apps on your phone without going through the marketplace but a developer account costs $99 per year and only allows 5 phones.
Of course there's the option of jail breaking the phone but who knows when that's going to happen.

Ren13B said:
There is no side loading allowed right now. If you are a registered developer you can load apps on your phone without going through the marketplace but a developer account costs $99 per year and only allows 5 phones.
Of course there's the option of jail breaking the phone but who knows when that's going to happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure it was reduced to 3 I haven't checked lately though because we only need 2 at my company.

Since you don't have access to the native API I think it would be hard to make an emulator in Silverlight or XNA.

I haven't signed up yet so you may be right.
ckacey said:
I'm pretty sure it was reduced to 3 I haven't checked lately though because we only need 2 at my company.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Once WP7 is jailbroken, we might start to see custom ringtones, emulator, tethering, and maybe a lot more. However, this is just pure speculation of mine. I am sure by the end of November(by the time USA gets WP7) we will have something to sideload apps etc.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Ren13B said:
There is no side loading allowed right now. If you are a registered developer you can load apps on your phone without going through the marketplace but a developer account costs $99 per year and only allows 5 phones.
Of course there's the option of jail breaking the phone but who knows when that's going to happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive spoken to a few reps from HTC and Samsung, they all say side loading will be available so i dont see why not for emulators (but not right now ofcourse... *tear*)

SysRq said:
Since you don't have access to the native API I think it would be hard to make an emulator in Silverlight or XNA.
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Click to collapse
Maybe hard, but not impossible. There is already a C64 emulator written in Silverlight available. http://silverlightc64.codeplex.com/
XNA might also be a good choice to write more powerful emulators.

Ren13B said:
There is no side loading allowed right now. If you are a registered developer you can load apps on your phone without going through the marketplace but a developer account costs $99 per year and only allows 5 phones.
Of course there's the option of jail breaking the phone but who knows when that's going to happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is only 3 devices. Also, if you are a college student, you can get a developer account for free.

diablos991 said:
It is only 3 devices. Also, if you are a college student, you can get a developer account for free.
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Do you have a link? I'm not in college still, but still have access to everything I did when I was.

ryotgz said:
Do you have a link? I'm not in college still, but still have access to everything I did when I was.
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Click to collapse
1. Register with Dreamspark.com
2. Validate your college identity
3. Register with windowsphone.create.msdn.com (be sure to select student account to avoid the fee)
4. Submit a dummy WP6.5 application to get the identity verification email from GeoTrust. (dummy application is only needed for student accounts)
5. If you pass GeoTrust's test on your personal information, you will then have your account verified shortly. (mine was the next morning)
All of the verification has to be done in order to enable developer devices. I have yet to receive my HTC HD7, but the section says that I have 3 device registrations available to me.
This whole process took about 2 hours for me to complete.

sxdejan said:
Ive spoken to a few reps from HTC and Samsung, they all say side loading will be available so i dont see why not for emulators (but not right now ofcourse... *tear*)
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Click to collapse
Really? Because I just tried side-loading an app into my Samsung SGH-I917, using the Zune software, and it didn't work at all. Are you sure those reps knew what they were talking about?

athompson said:
Really? Because I just tried side-loading an app into my Samsung SGH-I917, using the Zune software, and it didn't work at all. Are you sure those reps knew what they were talking about?
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AFAIK sideloading is available through Visual Studio with unlocked developer phones (e.g. you have to have a developer account and then register your phone there).

Ignore the reps. They have no idea how development on WP7 works.

Ren13B said:
Ignore the reps. They have no idea how development on WP7 works.
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Click to collapse
Agreed. Samsng told me the same story when in fact it's only possible on developers registered devices. TBH though, the registration fee isn't really that big a deal - release one (good) $.99 app and it'll pay for itself fairly quickly - especially now when the marketplace is still 'small'.

They should be allowed now based on this article here http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20021948-248.html

diego1985 said:
They should be allowed now based on this article here http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20021948-248.html
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Click to collapse
That doesn't change what is allowed in the store, simply WHO can submit.

[Q] WP 7 Rooting or Jailbreaking?

Hey!
So I want to buy the HTC Mozart, but I am not quite sure, because if there is no good community it wont be worth the money. So does anyone know if somebody is working on a root or jailbreak for wp7?
It would make the platform even greater
Thanks in advance!

People are working on it. I'd be surprised if there isn't a jailbreak available in 3 months after it is released.

Ok thanks I am just interested as the beta was already available and the roms have leaked in the htc Mozart category.

To general!
~~Tito~~

the windows mobile community is the reason this message board exists. I wouldn't worry.
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App

Made2Last said:
the windows mobile community is the reason this message board exists. I wouldn't worry.
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"

ericc191 said:
This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"
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Click to collapse
"HardSPL" is a bootloader that allows custom Windows ROMs - like flashing to BIOS in your PC to a 3rd party version
Windows doesn't have the concept of a "root or jailbreak" because there is no root account or Jail Shell.

ericc191 said:
This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM (Windows Mobile) is not equivalent to WP or (Windows Phone) Windows Mobile is the past, Windows Phone is Microsoft moving forward. I think they might actually have something with this new OS

Mhh interesting Thanks!
I tested the OS and it feels great, like my iphone 2g at first and after JB i noticed that it is crap without JB XD so just wondering ^^

~~Tito~~ said:
To general!
~~Tito~~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again To general.
This just discusses WP7, it does not contribute anything developmental wise, just discussion wise .
~~Tito~~

I don't see much of a point in jailbreaking, because there's absolutely squat in regards to API documentation of Iris UIX. No one will be able to write up alternates to the system components.
The only thing that'll make sense right now is unbrand phones, to get carriers out of the loop in regards of updates.

Some of these people think wp7 is ios with a new skin. Let them keep asking about this, Lol.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Some of these people think wp7 is ios with a new skin. Let them keep asking about this, Lol.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not think that this is IOS with a skin!!
I just wanted to know if something like jb or root will come!
Not JB per se but only the concept of being able to do stuff MS doesnt want to!
@Tom Servo
I am not sure but isnt it running on a silverlight platform so it would be rather easy to develop different apps?

A large part of the base system, especially UI, is .NET code but uses a different framework called Iris UIX. It's a descendant of the MCE graphics framework, and also used in the Zune desktop software.
Third party applications are forced to use Silverlight instead.
That's also why there's a disconnect between UI features and performance between the first party and third party apps.

Tom Servo said:
A large part of the base system, especially UI, is .NET code but uses a different framework called Iris UIX. It's a descendant of the MCE graphics framework, and also used in the Zune desktop software.
Third party applications are forced to use Silverlight instead.
That's also why there's a disconnect between UI features and performance between the first party and third party apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh ok thanks!
Now thats kinda stupid from them.....

A long time ago, they hired more developers to work on UIX. Seems like they were more occupied porting it to mobile devices than documenting it and prepping it for general release, or something.
I still hope that it'll be made public at some point in time. It seems to be a way better solution than WPF, judging both the phones and the Zune software, even tho the majority of it is still .NET. Maybe a little less flexible, tho. Seems like some teams over at Microsoft went like "**** it, this is overengineered slow crap" and continued to work on MCML, which turned into UIX.
WPF was on the table long before the flashy Zune client ever came to be, which is also mostly .NET. That tells you something.

Tom Servo said:
I don't see much of a point in jailbreaking, because there's absolutely squat in regards to API documentation of Iris UIX. No one will be able to write up alternates to the system components.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.

Tom Servo said:
A long time ago, they hired more developers to work on UIX. Seems like they were more occupied porting it to mobile devices than documenting it and prepping it for general release, or something.
I still hope that it'll be made public at some point in time. It seems to be a way better solution than WPF, judging both the phones and the Zune software, even tho the majority of it is still .NET. Maybe a little less flexible, tho. Seems like some teams over at Microsoft went like "**** it, this is overengineered slow crap" and continued to work on MCML, which turned into UIX.
WPF was on the table long before the flashy Zune client ever came to be, which is also mostly .NET. That tells you something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! I just saw the app you created looks interessting
Is it in the market yet?
So as you develop such apps i have to ask you:
Do you think the problems you mentioned can be overcome like MS says.
Like in one or two months?
Or would you say that the market will not evolve as much as apple and android?

vangrieg said:
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.
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Click to collapse
My reason exactly!

vangrieg said:
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.
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Microsoft doesnt allow native code for 3rd parties, amd pretty much said they'll keep it that way. I doubt WP7 will support unsafe code for 3rd parties. It's too obvious a workaround...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

unlock CE 6.0 of Windows Phone 7? Is this will help?

Hi
I thought this may be useful to our gurus in development. I am sorry if it is wrong place to post.
Is this a way to unlock CE 6.0 of Windows Phone 7? This I have seen in endgadget. This brings the native CE explorer in Zune. can we use this to bring file explorer in WP7?
Links:
http://www.zuneboards.com/forums/download-openzdk-applications/54495-liberate-explorer-zune-hd.html
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/01/liberate-for-the-zune-hd-unlocks-hidden-windows-ce-potential/
Thanks,
Ravi

I can't find the source for that exact project (if you have a link, please post it), but I've spent a lot of time looking at the OpenZDK exploit source code, trying to adapt it to WP7.
There are a couple problems. The first is that you need to be able to install an app on the phone in order to get the exploit to work. Zune already allows you to install third-party apps, so the only problem they had was how to break out of the XNA/managed/C# jail. Then they can distribute the breakout as an executable, and anyone can run it. That won't work on WP7 because the only way to install a third-party app is if you have a developer license and the sourcecode. Or you can download it from the app store, but obviously Microsoft isn't going to allow exploits onto the store (they even have automated checking for the kind of exploit they have over at Zuneboards).
The second problem is even if you were able to run random apps on WP7, the exploit still wouldn't work. Microsoft has gotten a lot more serious about security on WP7, and they've closed off all the easy hacks like that (as far as I can tell, of course I'll keep looking). They didn't take security so seriously on WP7, and accidentally gave developers access to an unsafe memcpy(). In WP7 they have a much more robust security model, and closed that off. Which is sad.
I haven't been able to get pInvoke to work on WP7, or even use pointers. You can get the compiler to generate unsafe code, but the runtime on the phone crashes when it comes to any pointer. pInvoke might theoretically work, it's possible I've just been using it wrong, but I've tried a lot of different things and haven't gotten it to work.

Oh yeah, I found the announcement here:
http://www.zuneboards.com/forums/zu...-your-zune-new-version-includes-keyboard.html
Says it's built on openZDK, which means it is using the memcpy() exploit, and my last post wasn't completely off

athompson said:
Oh yeah, I found the announcement here:
http://www.zuneboards.com/forums/zu...-your-zune-new-version-includes-keyboard.html
Says it's built on openZDK, which means it is using the memcpy() exploit, and my last post wasn't completely off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am really sorry, because most of the things you said, i'm not understanding, because I am not a professional developer or for that not even near to that area of coding (am a Pharmacist... my highest knoweldge is little HTML coding).
I am wondering is this will help in any way to access file system in WP7 and build an file explorer kind of app or can we install Totalchrom or resco file explorer kind of app??? using this can we enable bluetooth ftp or internet file download kind of options?
Thanks

lol ya, I guess I should have started with the executive summary. In short, my assessment is no, it doesn't help, because Windows Phone 7 is too different. I really wish it did help.

athompson said:
lol ya, I guess I should have started with the executive summary. In short, my assessment is no, it doesn't help, because Windows Phone 7 is too different. I really wish it did help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1, unfortunately this won't help us at all.

Why is it taking so long for WP7 to be fully "cracked" open?

I am not talking about sideloading. Android and iOS are hacked within weeks if not days of being released. WP7 has been out for a while and it seems there hasn't been any major progress in this front.
Anyone know why this is? Has MS made WP7 THAT secure that even xda can't break into it?

digger1985 said:
I am not talking about sideloading. Android and iOS are hacked within weeks if not days of being released. WP7 has been out for a while and it seems there hasn't been any major progress in this front.
Anyone know why this is? Has MS made WP7 THAT secure that even xda can't break into it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're not talking about sideloading, what are you talking about? The primary modes of "hacking" iOS and Android involve sideloading homebrew apps that do different stuff, which is already happening on WP7.

I was mostly talking about system modifications. Where are utilities like quick toggles for the settings and such? Or for example having folders in the app list. These were added pretty quickly when iOS was jailbroken I believe.

digger1985 said:
I was mostly talking about system modifications. Where are utilities like quick toggles for the settings and such? Or for example having folders in the app list. These were added pretty quickly when iOS was jailbroken I believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awaiting the proper APIs

Hmm... I was under the impression that the APIs were there but just not available to the devs. Cracking open WP7 was meant to solve this right?

digger1985 said:
Hmm... I was under the impression that the APIs were there but just not available to the devs. Cracking open WP7 was meant to solve this right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really. Devs have no access to native APIs and the access they have managed to gain is still sandboxed to restrict what they can do with the phone.
You could still crack open WP7 without access to native APIs, but it makes it more unlikely that anybody will. When devs have access to native APIs, there is more of a chance that somebody has overlooked a method of gaining access to the phone's features.
I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure iPhone did not have a native API available when it was jailbroken. Android is mostly open source, so it's pretty much already jailbroken

Just to mention, i was today able to get full root control of running processes on the current phone (phone sided code). And some api's that are hidden by microsoft can easily be reloaded with "LoadLibrary" and "GetProcAddress" like enumerate running processes. (Look under wp7>hacking>dllimport).

its coming...very soon

Why is it taking so long for WP7 to be fully "cracked" open?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft developers are not amatuers, and TBQH I hope it never is. They need to shut down homebrew IMO, or certainly not facilitate it. All it does it lead to issues and I don't think Microsoft wants the solution to issues to be "go to XDA" or "flash CustomROM_01."
Android is a mess because of all that ****.

How long it took for the first iPhone JB?

fiinix said:
Just to mention, i was today able to get full root control of running processes on the current phone (phone sided code). And some api's that are hidden by microsoft can easily be reloaded with "LoadLibrary" and "GetProcAddress" like enumerate running processes. (Look under wp7>hacking>dllimport).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait-Are you saying you have the ability to run and exit processes from another application on the device?
Edit: Never mind, found your thread here. Just gave me an idea, nice work!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1006331