This is not troll baiting or OS Slamming...
Looking for knowledgeable and constructive feedback regarding device security. I'm thinking in terms of an Executive or VP or Network Admin or such loosing the device. a piece of software
1) to do more to control access than a squiggly line
2) to allow for remote GPS tracking and/or device data wiping
3) that is stealthy and/or hard to remove.
I know there are a few "security services" out there but that leads me into "how do i know whose who and who can be trusted in the android segment". I place a great deal of trust in the developer of my ROM. That he/she/they are benevolent and not including by intent or negligence loggers or other malware. then i have a companies like Wave and Norton and Good all angling to get installed on my device. i don't know Wave nor Good and I have no luv for Norton.
The EVO allows for RDC and VNC sessions. It allows for VPN access and has the pwd's to my personal and work email. meebo has me signed into all my chat networks. As a long time Windows person I guess it's just a lil disconcerting when i stop and think on it. this device can easily be configured to hold everything needed to access a secured network. Perhaps this is a reflection on my lack of understanding the system in depth. perhaps i'm not sure how well the opensource community will communicate "problem" apps and developers.
Also, and kinda sorta related. Applications in the marketplace. sometimes you get an application and the types of security access it is asking for seems a bit "off". occasionally in the comments the developer may comment that "i need to access X in order to provide Z". It usually makes sense (whether true or not i cannot say), but is there any nice cross-reference of what types of actions require what access level. or why so many apps need to know the phone state and identity or general location or full network access and what exactly that means to me as the end user. this second paragraph is proving difficult to put to paper..i may come back and edit for clarity.
and lastly, i guess is a question on how to protect from apps like this...
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/060210-android-rootkit-is-just-a.html?page=1
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/commercial-spying-app-for-android-devices-released/4900
If the app seems fishy don't download it you can allways get lookout from the market it will pull your phone up on the gps and tell you exactly where it is I've tested you can also make it chirp real loud as for them accessing your phone put the pattern lock on in stead most thiefs are not hackers so they probably won't be able to access your phone even if you hard reset you still have to draw the pattern I mean unless they full root the phone and wipe it in petty sure you will be ok hope that helped
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Lookout kinda falls into the same category at Good or Wave. (at least to me thus far). All appear to be fine and yet somehow free products. I'm looking for a corporate solution, not end user solution. a free solution would be swell, so long as trust can be established.
i am looking at this from a corporate IT security perspective. not a young person, a enthusiast nor regular end user. heck, if I could get all of my users to actually know what is meant by "if the app seems fishy don't use it", most of my job would be completed. but to be honest, i'm still trying to get a grasp on that myself in the android world, hence the question about access levels in last paragraph of original post.
the zigzag is nifty and should protect from casual access. Froyo will provide an interface that a secured Exchange server would prefer to have. that will help.
( BTW ... if anyone knows how to make the red line not appear when you mess up the pattern lock...you'd be my personal hero for the day)
its not thieves that I'm worried about...it's my own end users that have to be protected from themselves. if a device was left in a bar or cab and did end up in the wrong hands....data could be sold, deals could be lost, people could be embarrassed, with the type of data that 'can very easily' exist on these devices...network security itself can be compromised. and sadly, i must assume that a good many end users will disable security if they are able to. for the same reason they ***** at automatic screenlocks on their desktop/laptop computers.
would you rather your IT team "hope/pray/expect the device will be picked up by some incompetent/benign/lawabiding citizen" or the opposite?
i choose to prepare for the worst...hope for the best. not the other way around. hence, my questions.
Isn't remote wipe being built into froyo somehow? Thought I read that somewhere.
I have my exchange email set up on my device and it requires me to use a passcode. I cannot disable it.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
As for wiping data remotely wave secure will do that it might be close to what you need or something for the time being hopefully this will help
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
This is kinda sorta what I'm lookn for.
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2010/06/28/understanding-the-android-market-security-system/
Hi folks,
I am going to buy my very first smart phone. I am currently debating between iPhone 4 and Samsung Vibrant Galaxy S (in Canada) Without going into the question og whether I need to get a data plan or not, I have some very specific questions that I would appreciate your words of wisdome on:
1: Is there a free third party GPS app that does not consume data while on the road (i.e. direct satellite connection). Would a paid app such as CoPilot Live 8 still be not good enough because Samsung GPS has reliability issues?
2: Does Google Maps continuously consume data while showing you your route on the road or does it just downlaod the map once and then simply use the gps-satellite channel? I need a good gps system on the phone so that I can have the phone in my backpack and follow the directions via my motorcycle's blue tooth enabled helmet.
3: Does Samsung Galaxy S have capability of turning speech into a text SMS?
4: Is there an alternative to the dreaded Kies for Samsung?
5: From being a complete noob up until a week ago to words like jailbreak, rooting, froyo, etc, I have come a long way and have explored several options. So wondering rooting is even necessary and it it is, is there a Cydia like application for Android. iPhone users use Cydia primarily for installing pirated software such as TomTom.
6: Can I turn off data consumption and use wifi and still receive calls?
Thanks in advance
datawiz2012 said:
1: Is there a free third party GPS app that does not consume data while on the road (i.e. direct satellite connection). Would a paid app such as CoPilot Live 8 still be not good enough because Samsung GPS has reliability issues?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Copilot is available for Android too, but in my opinion, Travroute suck. There are plenty of alternatives, but depends on your country. We aren't really too sure how good navigation is on the final froyo either, but car navigation should be fine. Worst comes to worst, you can get a bluetooth GPS.
datawiz2012 said:
2: Does Google Maps continuously consume data while showing you your route on the road or does it just downlaod the map once and then simply use the gps-satellite channel? I need a good gps system on the phone so that I can have the phone in my backpack and follow the directions via my motorcycle's blue tooth enabled helmet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are some that read off the directions.. Depends on the app.
datawiz2012 said:
3: Does Samsung Galaxy S have capability of turning speech into a text SMS?
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Click to collapse
There are apparently a few, but maybe best to give it a try yourself at a store, to see what results are like. Speech recognition has a habit of being slightly "meh". With VOIP though, in some countries, short phone calls cost cheaper on VOIP/skype than an SMS though.
datawiz2012 said:
4: Is there an alternative to the dreaded Kies for Samsung?
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Click to collapse
For flashing, there is heimdell and odin. Contacts sync with google contacts anyway. You can set the phone too mass transfer mode to expose it as files in normal file browsing tools to copy data/music.
datawiz2012 said:
5: From being a complete noob up until a week ago to words like jailbreak, rooting, froyo, etc, I have come a long way and have explored several options. So wondering rooting is even necessary and it it is, is there a Cydia like application for Android. iPhone users use Cydia primarily for installing pirated software such as TomTom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We don't need jailbreaking really because Android is open, whereas Apple screws developers around with restructions. And you can root if you want to, but you only need to do so if you are messing with low level OS stuff.
And unlike iOS, anyone can open an app store for Android, because Apple restricts apps which can be install.
datawiz2012 said:
6: Can I turn off data consumption and use wifi and still receive calls?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use Wifi to receive calls? For voice calls, you simply hold the power button, and there is an option to turn off 3G data/HSDPA. Haven't tested it properly, but pretty sure it works the way you want (maybe check the manual). VOIP apps exists too, like Skype and Sipdroid (and in late firmware's, they actually work properly).
Other considerations are:
1) The iPhones are MUCH more restrictive for developers. Apple will tell you they are the most consumer friendly company on the planet, but the harsh reality is, they REALLY aren't.
2) Android is far more customisable than iOS.
3)If you own an iPhone, you should assume you need to use iTunes (say goodbye to flac support, and many other things).
4) You buy from the Android store, I think the purchased apps should also work on any other future compatible android phone. If you buy on the iPhone store, they will only work on future Apple devices.
5) Some people will tell you the iPhone doesn't lag, etc. I tested an iPhone 4G the other day, and this is DEFINITELY untrue.
6) Steve jobs is no better than most politicians. He does consistently deceive people and blatantly lie during announcements. For iinstance, at first he tried to claim there was no antenna issue (and it was simply shonky software), despite antenna experts PROVING there was. The iPhone succeeded solely because people were sucked in by Steve Job's exageration of multi-touch. The first iPhone couldn't even run third party apps.
7) Android is growing quickly. The app store now has over 100,000 apps. Whilst there are less apps than Apple's platform, you'll find that all the good ones seems to be there.
Anyway, my opinion is that consumers should avoid the iPhones.. Another phone you may wish to consider though is the new HTC desire HD.
thanks for your very very detailed reply. Much appreciated. I am still confused about the GPS stuff. Hopefully other people will pitch in as well. I should have phrased my question about turning off data better than I did.
What I'd meant was whether I can turn off 3G so that I don't use internet data while using a GPS app such as CoPilot but would doing so prevent me from receiving/making calls?
Thanks,
Microsoft says about updating:
"Before you start
1 Install the Zune software on your PC or Windows Phone 7 Connector on your Mac. You'll need these programs to download the update to your phone."
Why on earth do you need to install software on your PC to update your phone? The update goes from Microsoft and has to reach the phone; why are they using the PC as an intermediary?
What does the phone need a PC at all? It's its own operating system, has its own data and applications.
Is this something that is going to be fixed when WP7/8 is business-ready? Businesses are hardly going to roll out Zune software across corporate PCs.
I have a suspicion this is connected to the failure. Windows has countless updates and close to none of them are failures. WP7 has had one minor update and it was a failure. They are introducing extra complexity, incorrectness, and unreliability into the system with Zune.
mcfly ? hellllo mcfly ?
I wonder if microsoft is paying attention ?
CSMR said:
Microsoft says about updating:
"Before you start
1 Install the Zune software on your PC or Windows Phone 7 Connector on your Mac. You'll need these programs to download the update to your phone."
Why on earth do you need to install software on your PC to update your phone? The update goes from Microsoft and has to reach the phone; why are they using the PC as an intermediary?
What does the phone need a PC at all? It's its own operating system, has its own data and applications.
Is this something that is going to be fixed when WP7/8 is business-ready? Businesses are hardly going to roll out Zune software across corporate PCs.
I have a suspicion this is connected to the failure. Windows has countless updates and close to none of them are failures. WP7 has had one minor update and it was a failure. They are introducing extra complexity, incorrectness, and unreliability into the system with Zune.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used SE phones for years and in order to update firmware you always had to connect to PC and use OEM software to update the device. It isn't extraordinary.
ohgood said:
I wonder if microsoft is paying attention ?
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Click to collapse
Do you even own a wp7?
Well, let's just say if you were to extract the update on the phone, then there would probably not be enough space for it. Also, the connection with Zune allows a backup of the phone to be taken, so if your update fails, or you want to restore to a previous backup, you are able to do so. Stop complaining.
sure haven't said:
Do you even own a wp7?
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Click to collapse
no. I don't own an iPhone, symbian, landline phone, xbox, or windows pc, boat, pig, or elephant either. the short time I've spent with demo (I have friends that sell) units proved I can't use wp7 on a daily basis for simple tasks -yet-.
if the update is less than 20mb it will be OTA, but if it's bigger and requires changing the lower layers of the OS, then you are required to connect it to your PC.
connecting it to your PC and using Zune software also provides the ability for a backup/restore capability. though as we have seen, it's still being ironed out...
Look, I am so incredibly happy that Zune was required for this phone, as I had no idea of how awesome it was, honestly. I always pushed it to the side for WMP and now I regret it, as the Zune Pass is the greatest thing I've ever spent money on. Dealing with the update, it allows for stability. I, personally, would never want my phone updating over the air when it comes to an entire OS update. Too many factors, too many things can go wrong, I prefer to let my PC handle the process. It's worked for Apple, while it's gone wrong for Google not to use software...
ohgood said:
no. I don't own an iPhone, symbian, landline phone, xbox, or windows pc, boat, pig, or elephant either. the short time I've spent with demo (I have friends that sell) units proved I can't use wp7 on a daily basis for simple tasks -yet-.
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Click to collapse
This seems rather strange - I swapped from an HD2 to the amazing HD7 and apart from missing a few games and apps I CAN use it for everyday tasks with no problems at all. It syncs with my work Exchange server faultlessly, and allows me to view office files without the need for extras. Indeed my IT manager has been so impressed with its smooth integration into our mainly 'Blackberry & iPhone' infrastructure that he has got himself a WP7 device as well now!
Yes there are a few bits missing but I can hardly believe it is unusable in your environment. Most descent coming to the WP7 forums comes from people who either do not even have a device or from those who listen to wining from users who expected far too much from a new OS. All this complaining about updates is laughable as iOS took ages to get an update and so did Android.. yet MS takes less than 6 months to be ready with an update and people moan! LOL.
I thought the PC/Zune requirement was already explained somewhere...
-Zune is used to both download and apply the update to your phone. This eliminates the need to download large (or small) updates through your device's data plan and therefore removes that obstacle in the case of limited data plans.
-Zune also takes care of the backing up (and restoring) of the phone in case of issues.
I'm not too sure what's so complicated about plugging your phone into a computer that should already have the Zune software installed (since it is your only method of syncing content to your phone). If anything, the fact that Zune creates backups makes its a far more reliable method then crossing your fingers and hoping your phone can do it all for you. Imagine if all the phones that failed to update were not initially backed up or didn't have Zune to restore the phone? There would be a great deal more angry consumers. Not to mention, you'd have to download something extra anyway that would do the backing up/restoring for you.
Yes, it is a couple extra steps initially, but it seems like a small price to pay when you think about how you would have to solve your own issues if Zune and backups did not exist.
The Gate Keeper said:
if the update is less than 20mb it will be OTA, but if it's bigger and requires changing the lower layers of the OS, then you are required to connect it to your PC.
connecting it to your PC and using Zune software also provides the ability for a backup/restore capability. though as we have seen, it's still being ironed out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but any phone updates must be done through the PC because the phone needs to be backed up before the update can take place. The size doesn't matter. The 20 MB rule ONLY applies to games/apps on the Marketplace.
prjkthack said:
I thought the PC/Zune requirement was already explained somewhere...
-Zune is used to both download and apply the update to your phone. This eliminates the need to download large (or small) updates through your device's data plan and therefore removes that obstacle in the case of limited data plans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
-Zune also takes care of the backing up (and restoring) of the phone in case of issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
I'm not too sure what's so complicated about plugging your phone into a computer that should already have the Zune software installed (since it is your only method of syncing content to your phone)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
If anything, the fact that Zune creates backups makes its a far more reliable method then crossing your fingers and hoping your phone can do it all for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
I'm not going to buy a WP7 phone because I'll have to install the Zune software to install OS updates.
ohgood said:
no. I don't own an iPhone, symbian, landline phone, xbox, or windows pc, boat, pig, or elephant either. the short time I've spent with demo (I have friends that sell) units proved I can't use wp7 on a daily basis for simple tasks -yet-.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good for you, but no one asked u for your opinion on this thread.... so stick to your own OS threads...
CSMR said:
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if u dont like it dont buy it what is the point *****ing???
CSMR said:
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you ever listen to the wp7 radio podcasts, they just talked about the update last week and decided they would force a backup just to be sure that people didn't screw it up.
It's really not that complicated. If you want OTA updates, get a damn android phone and move on.
mdotgarcia said:
I'm not going to buy a WP7 phone because I'll have to install the Zune software to install OS updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why are you here??? Not to mention zune software has been the most pleasant suprise of my buying the hd7.
CSMR said:
There is no such need since the phone should be able to access internet via wifi or via a usb connection to the PC. If there is no such connection you can't use Zune, so Zune is a strict disadvantage here, not an advantage.
Then this can be an option. Backup is separate to restore as processes, even if they are run at the same time.
This is a terrible aspect of WP7. The question is, when Microsoft adds some of the basic missing features, will updates come over the air and Zune be just an option for consumers.
Backup software is fine. I have no objection to making backups. There are multiple ways to backup. Backup is not as important with phones as other devices though as it is not a primary location for data storage, or shouldn't be. However yes, you want your particular choice of content for your phone to be backed up, reselecting it from some other source may be inconvenient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the end of the day, Zune is here to say, at least for the foreseeable future, so there isn't much point in arguing its existence (or necessity). For most, it brings many conveniences. Its not perfect, and it doesn't work for everyone, but if you decide to buy into this platform and its many advantages, you've gotta roll with the punches.
Another important thing to remember is that no matter how much Microsoft may want this phone to be a viable business option, it isn't (at least in its current form). This platform was designed for the general consumer. Sad to say, but your general consumer isn't too bright. So I understand why backing up during every update is a necessity. I understand why Zune and a PC is required to sync media. I understand why they don't do OTA updating and limit OTA app downloads to under 20 MB.
Some of these things may be slight inconveniences to others, but I appreciate the fact that my phone always has a backup in case something goes wrong, and that I don't have to fumble between 5 different .EXE's or pages of directions to do what I need to do. I just fire up Zune, and it does my syncing, my backups, my restore, the marketplace, podcasts, etc. I mean my goodness, how many different applications did Windows Mobile have to accomplish all this. It was crazy. Windows Phone 7 has nowhere near the amount of issues that Windows Mobile had/has and I love it.
Look at it from a business standpoint too, and it further makes sense. Plug it into your Windows PC and hey that sells software. Require Zune and hey that sells movies, music, games, apps, and Zune Pass subscriptions. It advertises products not only from Microsoft, but using the Zune software is another way for Microsoft to provide access to and advertise the Marketplace to generate more sales and exposure for its developers.
In the grand scheme of things, plugging in your phone to your computer every once in a while is a rather trivial thing to complain about to most people.
prjkthack said:
At the end of the day, Zune is here to say, at least for the foreseeable future, so there isn't much point in arguing its existence (or necessity). For most, it brings many conveniences. Its not perfect, and it doesn't work for everyone, but if you decide to buy into this platform and its many advantages, you've gotta roll with the punches.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. It should be there. There should also be alternatives for businesses or anyone who is not the mass consumer.
Another important thing to remember is that no matter how much Microsoft may want this phone to be a viable business option, it isn't (at least in its current form). This platform was designed for the general consumer. Sad to say, but your general consumer isn't too bright. So I understand why backing up during every update is a necessity. I understand why Zune and a PC is required to sync media. I understand why they don't do OTA updating and limit OTA app downloads to under 20 MB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a good point, but Microsoft would be crazy to abandon business. They called it WP7, not Kin 2, and they know they need to cater to business at some point.
Some of these things may be slight inconveniences to others, but I appreciate the fact that my phone always has a backup in case something goes wrong, and that I don't have to fumble between 5 different .EXE's or pages of directions to do what I need to do. I just fire up Zune, and it does my syncing, my backups, my restore, the marketplace, podcasts, etc. I mean my goodness, how many different applications did Windows Mobile have to accomplish all this. It was crazy. Windows Phone 7 has nowhere near the amount of issues that Windows Mobile had/has and I love it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see that. It's a minimal system that is easy. The problem with Zune is if it is so integrated that there is no alternative. Then it's a phone that is targeted towards entertainment but cannot be a business phone. Instead, the convenience features should be an added, optional layer on top of the OS, not integrated into the OS.
In the grand scheme of things, plugging in your phone to your computer every once in a while is a rather trivial thing to complain about to most people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fair. It's more of an architecturaral issue, that integration may be tying down the platform to specific uses and types of customer.
I don't understand the problem. iPhones require a connection to iTunes to update from what I recall, and those have been integrated into a business environment. I don't see how this is any different.
FiyaFleye said:
Look, I am so incredibly happy that Zune was required for this phone, as I had no idea of how awesome it was, honestly. I always pushed it to the side for WMP and now I regret it, as the Zune Pass is the greatest thing I've ever spent money on...
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Click to collapse
+1 exactly!
and now what..
w/ windows mobile device center and active zinc ""?