So yea I have been a long time Android user and I have had no interest in WP7 after using WM6-6.5, not an iphone guy either, Android just feels right at home for me, so anyway a couple weeks ago my Captivate fell and broke, now I need a new phone, Naturally Android was my first choice and I decided that I was gonna wait for the Olympus that is heavily rumored for ATT in Jan, So all is well....until I see a WP7 commercial and it hits me! "You know what! Lemme check this out, lets see if this is even gonna last against Android and iOS" I tell myself, so I hope on my laptop and start checking out the phones and looking at UI breakthroughs/reviews. At first I thought the UI was a little weird but as the review went on I started liking more and more! Now I think hands down its the best looking OS on a mobile (I used to give that to WebOS), so with the combination of the great looking and fast UI, Single OS and updates across all phones which is important to me because as a heavy android user that has had many Android phones, I can tell you a lot of Custom UIs just SUCK, and most of these phones arent future proof as without rooting you will never get an update.
Im really interested but there are some things that do worry me, first of all I still love android and Im still trying to choose which one.
At first I was really annoyed that you have to use the Zune software to add music, Vids, Pics etc, but I guess its not as bad as that crap they call iTunes.
Wtf is up with all this MicroSD card talk? This is something that is very important to me as I listen to a LOT of music and need that extra memory, If I get WP7, The Focus is the phone I will get, but I need to know my MicroSD will work.
How about the Apps, I have yet to check out the Apps on the Zune Software but how fast do you think MS will catchup? I mean WP7 at 1000, Android at 100,000, and iOs at 300,000, quite a big gap.
Updates are very important to me, I hate to feel like I have an outdated phone, will MS send out the updates or do we have to wait for the Carriers?
And finally the biggest and most important question of all, will WP7 succeed, at this point it looks like WP7 is already at a high level in terms of UI and everything in its infancy stages, but is that enough? Will it ever catch up to Android and more importantly iOS? Will it catch on with the people? This wont be another Kin right? lol
Overall Im VERY interested and seriously considering the jump, there are some minor things that I wanna see fixed and there are some things holding me back such as the MicroSD issue (very important to me as 8gb is not enough for me), and the Olympus (waiting to see how it is).
I guess it's safe to say that WP7 won't be a next Kin simply because of a much higher level of commitment, resources and funds from Microsoft. Whether it will catch up with Android in terms of overall market share - who knows.
Re apps, there are ways to check out whether the platform has the specific apps you need. You can use Bing visual search to browse through the Marketplace, install Zune software on your PC, and there's also some third party site that allows you to browse apps (wp7appslist.com or something like that). It doesn't really matter whether they have a billion apps or 15, they need to have the ones you need, I think.
The whole SD card thing is a real mess indeed. Samsung Focus seems to be the only phone where you can realistically replace the card, but there's a list of cards that work and a list of cards that don't here on xda, check it. I personally would prefer built-in flash as it's noticeably faster, but obviously 8GB is just ridiculous. There are some phones that are announced to have 16GB, don't know whether they are available for you.
Zune: I like Zune WiFi sync.
MicroSD: If you must have removable SD, don't buy WP7. Even the ones for which you can/might be able to put in your own microSD, the card is locked to the phone and you can't swap out the card without reinitializing the phone.
Apps: WP7 is at 3,000 or something like that now. WP7 has many of the big title games that are on iOS that are NOT on Android; WP7 is insanely easy to program little apps for, and uses XNA for professional game development (same platform as Xbox). So, I think you'll see lots of high quality apps. iOS may have 300k apps, but TONS of the apps are useless garbage.
Who knows to what degree WP7 will succeed or fail? I am certain MS is committed to the platform. On the subject in general though, look how RIM and Symbian were king of the hill and how quickly have lost market share -- the same can happen to Android and iOS. People are not committed to their mobile OS in the same way they are on their computers.
Yea I agree that we dont need a million apps, just the ones we need, Its funny because on my Captivate I only used about 15 apps of the 50 I had anyway, as for the SD Card issue, I dont mind that you cant take it out without resetting I just want to have at least 20gb's not a measly 8gb.
Over in the HD7 forum many people have replaced the 16gb MicroSD card with a 32gb MicroSD Card successfully (using the hidden micro SD Card slot, being careful not to void warranty) , as far as I know only Sandisk cards work though.
Also, you can use SDCards after they've been in a WP7 but you need to stick it in a Symbian Running Nokia to reformat it first. I would imagine after the next update Microsoft will come out with some sort of app for this.
My sandisk class 4 16GB card is working very well in my Focus.. no complaints so far.
As for your other questions..
The Zune software is very nice.. and wireless syncing is an option for music, photos, etc.
They are up to around 3,000 apps..
As for updates, the first big one is planned for January.. the carriers do have the final say on an update being released, but the delays (if they happen) should be nothing like android.. because OEM and carrier customizations to the OS have been limited to applications that can be uninstalled and special sections in the marketplace. Microsoft has supposedly set up duplicates of the carrier tests in their own test labs so they can preemptively test updates and know if an update is going to pass the carrier test or not.. and provide the results to the carrier.
Microsoft is delivering the updates either OTA or via the Zune software.. but the carriers still have the final say.
I don't anticipate any delays, though.. unless there are problems with the update. As the owner of a Samsung Vibrant.. I can safely say that I will not miss that aspect of Android one bit..
Thanks for all the replys guys! The more I think about it, the more I want to get the Focus. I will admit, Ive been used to Android for a while now but it shouldnt be so bad, seeing as I have been using my bros spare 3GS, it does what I need it to do....but still just not a fan of how iphone is set up, and the syncing process is just....ugh....I just hope Zune isnt like itunes...
i was also in your boat last week. I was an avid android user and recomended it to all my friends. i had the hd2 with 6.5 and it was meh to say the least, but my new HD7 is amazing and i now tell those friends to get WP7 phones.
the UI is great and intuitive, and for being the first version of WP7... it rocks!
The market is still beta, but give it time and im sure it will florish. Like Talys said, apps are super easy to make so its only a matter of time.
i also love zune. first time using it when i got the HD7. Wireles syncing is so convienient! keeps all my music fresh and different everytime i charge my phone.
I jumped ship and not looking back. WP7 is amazing!
What about Playing Divx files? Possible?
solidkevin said:
What about Playing Divx files? Possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zune takes care of most of the common video files and converts them for you.
I'll clarify a few things for you from the posts above and focus it on your original post.
Zune itself is a little different to get use to compared to other media players, but it's quite lite in running, and grows on you over time. it's very well presented and works far better than iTunes that's for sure. It actually closes properly with huge libraries (try it on iTunes and watch the processes on your PC, see how long iTunes takes to close...).
MicroSD... it is definitely confusing, but from all the chatter, if you're after space, buy the Focus, use a Sandisk/Kingston class 4 32GB card, and you'll have a total of 40GB (8gb onboard). This trumpts the iPhone 4's 32GB offering. Which takes care of your space issues. And given you're in the US, get a Zune Pass and you get unlimited streaming of music (only limited to your carrier, don't want to blow your phone bill), and you get to keep 10 songs a month which is within the Zune Pass subscription.
Apps are growing, they're just about to pass 3,000. As a developer, i'm starting to get my head around windows phone. if you want to develop, it's far easier for windows phone than any other platform, and there is a lot of support online from MS and the community in terms of C# and silverlight (which is where you'll start). If you're not a dev, there are a lot of well known apps already available, and more coming by the day (e.g. wordpress is rumoured to be working on a wp7 app, which should be great for those who are constant bloggers).
Updates, yes carriers can block them, but only 1 round. Let me give you an example, say MS says that we have an update coming Jan, but at&t haven't finished testing with this update, they can ask MS to not deploy to their phones, and MS will not. Then MS comes along (let's say in may [made up]) and says, we have another update. the update that at&t asked not to deploy will be included with this, and at&t cannot ask for it to not be deployed. So you will at most be 1 update behind. This is awesome because not only does it ensure the carrier's can have their say, but in the end the end user will ultimately get the update, and not be left shafted like they do with Android. With Android, i'm sure you've experienced it already, but devices easily get left out in the cold when OEMs and Carriers are trying their best to push new products, and not worry about the older ones. And this is where you have to then start joining xda community and start rooting your phone to just keep it up to date, but then you don't really have a consistent experience and it requires you always checking back here, and in some cases flashing nightly.
As for whether it will be around for the long haul, MS has put HEAPS into this, a lot more than the kin (verizon is rumoured to bring the kin back anyways), and they've done the UI to most extent and now can focus on improving the current set of already high quality features, and bringing in new ones. This is all uniform across any windows phone. so when you go to pick up a different windows phone you can be assured you already know how to use it (yes... the iPhone style experience, but it does work and work well). And what would you prefer... a start screen that may look a bit bland at the start, but once you pin things you really want to it, it colours up... or have a sea of app icons to filter through to find that 1 thing you want... only to realise you hit the wrong icon when you get there (what I see a lot with my iPhone friends). Don't get me wrong though, I am a bit of a fan of different start screens that Android provides, but then you have to have all these widgets, and finding the right one can take forever, and if the widget isn't programmed right, it could be more problematic (causing instability, inconsistency in experience, and possibly even loss of battery).
In the end, each has their strengths and weaknesses, that's for sure. WP current weakness is the lack of apps, not all the common features in (custom ringtones as an example), and multi-tasking which everyone seems to have a big deal about now. Like i said on a different thread, when considering a windows phone, know what you do a lot of, find out if you can do it in windows phone, and if not, are you willing to give it up. Not to say that you won't be able to do it period, it could come in the form of an update, but look at it from the here and now, and then also would you be happy waiting till that rumoured update.
The Gate Keeper said:
Zune takes care of most of the common video files and converts them for you.
I'll clarify a few things for you from the posts above and focus it on your original post.
Zune itself is a little different to get use to compared to other media players, but it's quite lite in running, and grows on you over time. it's very well presented and works far better than iTunes that's for sure. It actually closes properly with huge libraries (try it on iTunes and watch the processes on your PC, see how long iTunes takes to close...).
MicroSD... it is definitely confusing, but from all the chatter, if you're after space, buy the Focus, use a Sandisk/Kingston class 4 32GB card, and you'll have a total of 40GB (8gb onboard). This trumpts the iPhone 4's 32GB offering. Which takes care of your space issues. And given you're in the US, get a Zune Pass and you get unlimited streaming of music (only limited to your carrier, don't want to blow your phone bill), and you get to keep 10 songs a month which is within the Zune Pass subscription.
Apps are growing, they're just about to pass 3,000. As a developer, i'm starting to get my head around windows phone. if you want to develop, it's far easier for windows phone than any other platform, and there is a lot of support online from MS and the community in terms of C# and silverlight (which is where you'll start). If you're not a dev, there are a lot of well known apps already available, and more coming by the day (e.g. wordpress is rumoured to be working on a wp7 app, which should be great for those who are constant bloggers).
Updates, yes carriers can block them, but only 1 round. Let me give you an example, say MS says that we have an update coming Jan, but at&t haven't finished testing with this update, they can ask MS to not deploy to their phones, and MS will not. Then MS comes along (let's say in may [made up]) and says, we have another update. the update that at&t asked not to deploy will be included with this, and at&t cannot ask for it to not be deployed. So you will at most be 1 update behind. This is awesome because not only does it ensure the carrier's can have their say, but in the end the end user will ultimately get the update, and not be left shafted like they do with Android. With Android, i'm sure you've experienced it already, but devices easily get left out in the cold when OEMs and Carriers are trying their best to push new products, and not worry about the older ones. And this is where you have to then start joining xda community and start rooting your phone to just keep it up to date, but then you don't really have a consistent experience and it requires you always checking back here, and in some cases flashing nightly.
As for whether it will be around for the long haul, MS has put HEAPS into this, a lot more than the kin (verizon is rumoured to bring the kin back anyways), and they've done the UI to most extent and now can focus on improving the current set of already high quality features, and bringing in new ones. This is all uniform across any windows phone. so when you go to pick up a different windows phone you can be assured you already know how to use it (yes... the iPhone style experience, but it does work and work well). And what would you prefer... a start screen that may look a bit bland at the start, but once you pin things you really want to it, it colours up... or have a sea of app icons to filter through to find that 1 thing you want... only to realise you hit the wrong icon when you get there (what I see a lot with my iPhone friends). Don't get me wrong though, I am a bit of a fan of different start screens that Android provides, but then you have to have all these widgets, and finding the right one can take forever, and if the widget isn't programmed right, it could be more problematic (causing instability, inconsistency in experience, and possibly even loss of battery).
In the end, each has their strengths and weaknesses, that's for sure. WP current weakness is the lack of apps, not all the common features in (custom ringtones as an example), and multi-tasking which everyone seems to have a big deal about now. Like i said on a different thread, when considering a windows phone, know what you do a lot of, find out if you can do it in windows phone, and if not, are you willing to give it up. Not to say that you won't be able to do it period, it could come in the form of an update, but look at it from the here and now, and then also would you be happy waiting till that rumoured update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent man! Awesome post, Ive decided that WP7 it is! Funny how things change....a couple of weeks ago I was telling my bro how Great Android is and how I would never get an iphone or a WP, Ive been literally all day though researching WP and like you said the things that are missing will come in future updates.
solidkevin said:
Excellent man! Awesome post, Ive decided that WP7 it is! Funny how things change....a couple of weeks ago I was telling my bro how Great Android is and how I would never get an iphone or a WP, Ive been literally all day though researching WP and like you said the things that are missing will come in future updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
disclaimer -P): there is no guarnetee that the features you want will be coming in an update any time soon, but hopefully a lot of the ones you desire (and the rest of us) will. but all we can do is wait and actually see.
solidkevin said:
So yea I have been a long time Android user and I have had no interest in WP7 after using WM6-6.5, not an iphone guy either, Android just feels right at home for me, so anyway a couple weeks ago my Captivate fell and broke, now I need a new phone, Naturally Android was my first choice and I decided that I was gonna wait for the Olympus that is heavily rumored for ATT in Jan, So all is well....until I see a WP7 commercial and it hits me! "You know what! Lemme check this out, lets see if this is even gonna last against Android and iOS" I tell myself, so I hope on my laptop and start checking out the phones and looking at UI breakthroughs/reviews. At first I thought the UI was a little weird but as the review went on I started liking more and more! Now I think hands down its the best looking OS on a mobile (I used to give that to WebOS), so with the combination of the great looking and fast UI, Single OS and updates across all phones which is important to me because as a heavy android user that has had many Android phones, I can tell you a lot of Custom UIs just SUCK, and most of these phones arent future proof as without rooting you will never get an update.
Im really interested but there are some things that do worry me, first of all I still love android and Im still trying to choose which one.
At first I was really annoyed that you have to use the Zune software to add music, Vids, Pics etc, but I guess its not as bad as that crap they call iTunes.
Wtf is up with all this MicroSD card talk? This is something that is very important to me as I listen to a LOT of music and need that extra memory, If I get WP7, The Focus is the phone I will get, but I need to know my MicroSD will work.
How about the Apps, I have yet to check out the Apps on the Zune Software but how fast do you think MS will catchup? I mean WP7 at 1000, Android at 100,000, and iOs at 300,000, quite a big gap.
Updates are very important to me, I hate to feel like I have an outdated phone, will MS send out the updates or do we have to wait for the Carriers?
And finally the biggest and most important question of all, will WP7 succeed, at this point it looks like WP7 is already at a high level in terms of UI and everything in its infancy stages, but is that enough? Will it ever catch up to Android and more importantly iOS? Will it catch on with the people? This wont be another Kin right? lol
Overall Im VERY interested and seriously considering the jump, there are some minor things that I wanna see fixed and there are some things holding me back such as the MicroSD issue (very important to me as 8gb is not enough for me), and the Olympus (waiting to see how it is).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are so many threads like this on this forum.... i dont get it why ppl want to load Android on WP7 still...
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
come on guys if you put your self in the shoes of Microsoft you will do the same thing.... why you should allow ppl to load some other OS on your device... when microsoft have spant time, money and effort in developing a new OS (i will not say good or great as i know time will tell what WP7 will do)
truffle1234 said:
there are so many threads like this on this forum.... i dont get it why ppl want to load Android on WP7 still...
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
come on guys if you put your self in the shoes of Microsoft you will do the same thing.... why you should allow ppl to load some other OS on your device... when microsoft have spant time, money and effort in developing a new OS (i will not say good or great as i know time will tell what WP7 will do)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm, did you actually read the OP???
The person wants to use WP7 as a WP7 device not to load Android on it.
truffle1234 said:
there are so many threads like this on this forum.... i dont get it why ppl want to load Android on WP7 still...
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
come on guys if you put your self in the shoes of Microsoft you will do the same thing.... why you should allow ppl to load some other OS on your device... when microsoft have spant time, money and effort in developing a new OS (i will not say good or great as i know time will tell what WP7 will do)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok.....next time try reading the thread first before responding
lqaddict said:
Umm, did you actually read the OP???
The person wants to use WP7 as a WP7 device not to load Android on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea, he said he is coming from android and looking at windows phone.
As an owner of several devices ranging from all 4 generations of the iPhone, Dell Streak, Nexus One, HTC G2 and my most recent device the Samsung Focus I must say that the OS is just plain slick. The OS is fast and very responsive. I struggled with the whole micro sd card issue to and just went out on a limb and purchased the Transcend class 2 32gb from Amazon.
I installed the card per the instructions and had a total storage of 36.90 GB after the format was completed. I have had no problems with the phone at all without a certified micro sd card.
The phone is great, my only problem is I have to get used to how easy the phone is to use. It's very intuitive once you forget that it's not android or ios. No looking back for me.
I have tried the lot, wm5, wm6, wm6.5, web0s, android and iOS (on an iPad). Wp7 is the best for me, even with it's current limitations.
truffle1234 said:
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The memory card thing makes sense given what they're trying to achieve.
1. They want to make it simplier for the consumer, when the consumer installs an app they don't see Onboard/My Storage/SD Card. It's arcane to the general consumer; The consolidated space makes it easier to understand.
2. Allows flexibility to OEM to choose whatever storage mechanism they see fit eg: NAND, SD Card
The Gate Keeper said:
disclaimer -P): there is no guarnetee that the features you want will be coming in an update any time soon, but hopefully a lot of the ones you desire (and the rest of us) will. but all we can do is wait and actually see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, the biggest updates i wanna see is an iOS style of multitasking, and copy paste. Everything else, like apps for example will just take time.
Related
I may get roasted over this post, but it bugs me. First and formost not a big fan of the open source model. Have a friend that called me a freetard (I looked it up, some one who champions the cause for open source) when I had something positive to say about Andriod. Crazy! He is an iPhone, iPad user. iOs is based on Darwin which is open source. So when he made the argument for paying for software to drive innovation, it seemed a little odd. This guy is a rockstar in the IT world, but the iPhone smug is deffinately keeping him down. I was handed a Windows CE 1.0 device years ago and I could see the potential of this handy piece of equipment. Over the years I had some Windows CE based device at my side ever since. I have seen the rise of the Palm Pilot, listing to users complaing about how it synchs with outlook or doesn't until you buy something. I had my Pocket PC with Outlook, but the Pocket PC was not the rage so customers refused to even look. I was scratching my head as the Blackberry rose to power without the basic features I had enjoyed for years, it looked like a colorized version of a Palm Pilot. Enter the iPhone with the commercials touting listening to your music then answering a call. I was able to do that for years what was the big deal? Lotsa features in the iPhone at first were lacking.. how bout using songs as a custom ringtone... just plain old mp3 files.... nope you gotta jailbreak it. It was the must have items, if you had one you had status... it's a phone for crying out loud! Enter the G1 WITH NO OUT OF THE BOX EXCHANGE SUPPORT!!!! Use football, it sucks but it kinda works. Andriod is growing up into a much better phone O/S, better than the iSmug 4 (iPhone 4 for those who don't know a iPhone user or own one). Enter WP7 already condemed in the forums, even before official launch in the US. Windows CE from 1.0 to 6.5 were designed for lower resolution, smaller screens (excluding the screen size of the jornada and 1.0 devices) and a stylist. Phones are not like that anymore. A re-write has been long over due! From what I have read it's more like the Zune and it didn't act as a mass storage device either untill you installed a hack. I see the things it won't do as concerning sure, but as gamers argue the PS/3 is a better gaming box, it doesn't matter xbox is a more of a social network. I have seen the capabilities and it does now have huge potential. How many of you have installed Zune software and used it as a music player? Sure, internet radio is missing like a Winamp and it won't synch without a zune, that now has changed, but Winamp, itunes, any of them don't come close to the visual experiance and presentation of the zune software. Games that update your gamer score has my nephew frothing. Still has exchange support, better than Andriod when initially released on the G1.
Phones that had no out of the box tethering initially:
iPhone
Blackberry
Andriod
Palm O/S
All very successful O/S's. I think time will tell if WP7 is a hit or a miss, but in the tech world mediocre is usually the big winner. If tethering, mass storage support, and a few others are fixed in short order then who will you get behind? In all honesty I see huge potential in WP7. I have an xbox, use my phone as my music player... so bring on Zune software support! Work and play all in one device redesiegned for touch phones, I'm down to give it a try, to give it a chance to have some of it's limitations worked out in a few months. Don't be such a hater before it even has a chance.
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
AdrianK said:
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
Many of those of us that are complaining about WP7 are long standing WinCE owners. My first WinCe phone was the BlueAngel but prior to that I had a jornada and acer n20w.
We don't hate M$ but we do feel let down by the focus of the new WP. I don't use face book or twiter, I don't want to play games, I don't give a toss about Zune, I don't want to have to open a windows live account.
I reserve the right to feck my phone up in an attempt to improve/personalise it.
I don't want a model T-ford with the engine hood welded down.
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
awagner said:
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, yeah I get your point, and I agree. Somewhat thankfully, I don't think I've ever heard someone try to sound big because they own an iPhone, but I've never been to the states
I didn't see your post as complaining really. The title of the thread made me think "oh no, here we go again." But your post was not what I expected from that title.
I completely understand how some people consider no tethering a deal breaker. However, just look at other phone OSs and you will realize that tethering will happen, with or without the consent of the carrier or the OS builder.
The bottom line is simple. If any of the missing items are what someone considers a deal breaker, just wait it out. We will find out soon enough how development, both official and unofficial, will add to WP7s feature set.
I personally have a few concerns but nothing that would cause me any serious grief. This may not be the case for others. Comparitively, iTunes is a deal breaker for me with the iPhone. Android's lack of native and consistent music sync is driving me crazy. I doubt we will ever see the perfect device, so I just try to find something that provides me with the features that are most important to me.
Your mileage may vary!
awagner said:
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Much like you I am seeing that communication is very different than it was 2 or 3 years ago and it has nothing to do with the iphone (most users I know don't really text, send mms or even watch videos on thiers). What has changed things is twitter and facebook. A company or individual can accomplish more in getting the name and recognition of a product faster through these type of mediums than anything previous. Email is secondary to texting, updating your facebook or tweeting when it comes to communication with most of the younger generation (under 30). Most of my family that I had to force to use facebook is all over it now (ages 15-20) and our ability to cross reference our products (music, photography, etc...) or simply keep up to date with family events is much easier than before.
Windows Phone 7 taking advantage of these services makes it a desirable, easy to use product that looks great and allows growth in the future. The last 5 years has proven Windows Mobile is not going to sell and targeting only the closed in person who shuns social interaction through these mediums will be the fastest way to have a product fail.
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Wow! I was expecting to get ripped from one side to another for merely mentioning a wait and see attitude. I am surprised to see other people get the point it is a direction change and much needed. A Great phone just does no cut it. With HTC sense and an Energy ROM I have everything I want to know right on the home screen, plus internet sharing, etc, etc... for me it's better than Andriod, but look at the market share for a once dominate phone. It's just not good enough, I think we can all agree a new direction for Microsoft is needed like it or not. I for one am looking forward to it, just need to rethink how I might get around the obsticals of the stuff that does not work. Hopefully, the HD2 will see a ROM soon hacked or not so I can get into it without pluncking down a bunch of cash for it.
orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
awagner said:
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is already in the next update and is already being tested with the latest builds of the OS. There is no reason to be concerned unless waiting a couple months without c/p is going to cause a major problem for you.
orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not to veer this topic off course....but it is stupid comments like this that annoy me...and apparently he doesn't pay attention to the news that copy/paste is coming in Jan.
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
I love Microsoft! I especially love developing for them. I think Visual Studio 2010 could quite easily be considered the best development environment in the world.
I love the fact that most people world wide use the same operating system, and that I can develop a single program and expect it to work on most peoples machines.
This is why I want WP7 to work well. I want to feel happy with it. I want others to feel happy with it too, because I want it to be a roaring success.
This is why I b**ch and moan about features that have been intentionally left out
That's exactly how I feel, except mines is from a consumer point of view.
MS always makes something with great potential, but then they half do it. Its like that with every MS product except the desktop.
Hmm... Could Microsoft do better? Sure. If you think Google has the magic pixey dust to make the perfect phone O/S that will make everyone happy you need to get out more. Apple and Blackberry have their own issues. I cringed creating a gmail account when I setup Andriod on my phone. Sure Microsoft has privacy issues, but at least I know with them I am the customer. With Google more often than not, your not. Has anybody listened to Eric Schmidt talk? The guy is just plain creepy, Google had to shut him up. "If you don't like street view just move." Ok, so where is it safe Eric? Your place? Oh I get it he is saying he is Noah and we must follow him to his ark. Look, all I am saying is give WP7 a chance.
Just FYI
HTC Support
Will there be any upgrade path to WP7? Free or purchase?
"I understand the importance of having the most up to date software for your HTC HD2. At this time, there are no plans on releasing a Windows Phone 7 update for any HTC device. I do apologize for any confusion that you may have had, I hope this clears things up for you"
XDA is officially my only hope for the HD2 and if nada then this phone will be worth very little in short order
The only thing that could change the path of t-mobile and HTC if t-mobile is sitting on thousands of HD2's only way they could unload them after the 8th is upgrade the phone!
Im pretty sure all WP7 updates will come via Zune
francomur99 said:
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the future means having to reboot you phone, Or even worse have it fail to restart because a poor App. [I will give it a miss thanks.]
I have not enjoyed being left without a phone the few times this has happened.
Just give me a stable OS any day. [ Reliability is a key for success]
This thread should not be about how WP7 should catch up with the competition but how WP7 should be ITSELF and raise the bar/level on its own.
I looked on the various ideas from developers (i.e. the lockscreen being filled with some Android-ish widgets or infos) and I basically don't personally like the idea or where this seems to be going.
I LOVE WP7 , I love it for finally having something fresh and fast after years and years of icons-mania, custom ROMs,PC-tweakage-and-problems-ported-to-phones similarities. I love it so much that I personally do not give a damn about missing some features right now which are to be implemented soon enough. (although I RESPECT other's opinion)
The thing is that right now there is no such thing as WP7 in terms of UI on the market, NOTHING! And this is the OS' biggest strentgh right now. The reason I bought this phone (HD7) is for finally getting rid off all those geeky stuff. I love how I can see a clean wallpaper with a minimalistic basic notification below and a huge date. It's just what you need , it's clean , it's modern, it's how an OS in (almost) 2011 should be. But I am not talking here only about esthetics or eye-candy, I am talking about how well information is being provided to the user, how professional is done rather than some active wallpaper which basically has no purpose rather than a silly childish brag and a battery drainer.
I want WP7 to stay that way, I don't want to become an Android wannabe.
IMO I find Android a rather weak UI. I mean we are almost hitting 2.3 but has there been any serious major update? Nada.
So, the point of this topic would be about developers being able to help raise this new standard.It's about perception, it's basically about the purpose of the phone. Phones should help people comunicate. I keep seeing news in this current Smartphone world about hardware upgrades and basically nothing else. Originality has been in the last years left behind.
This is where I think Microsoft simply nailed it.The OS is not perfect, it's not perfect because it doesn't satisfy some needs, but people should think of what they really need NOT what they saw at other OS device and want this or that back.I can see why Steve Ballmer said WP7 will be one of MS' biggest succeses and I can see why an OS like this is not yet polished and I can see that it needed a little bit more time to develop properly but obviously they simply couldn't afford another delay. It's just something new !
I hope mods don't close this thread because as I initially stated this is not about what WP7 does or does not, it's about what WP7 is and can be or what it can change.
I agree. I'm not missing all the icons all over the home page, having to retheme them everytime I flashed a ROM. At the time I liked doing it, but now I'm just enjoying using the phone.
I think there are a couple of things microsoft needs to add, like outlook support and vpn so business users can jump on board. I think we will see pretty frequent updates in the beginning and I'm excited by where wp7 is going.
I share your love for the Metro UI; I look the whole minimal look. But I hope you can appreciate this look is not for everyone. So the UI being the greatest selling point for you may be the greatest downfall for someone else.
There are two approaches companies can take in the mobile OS war:
1. Highly customizable OS that can look and behave however you want it.
2. Highly restrictive OS that will look and behave how they expect it to.
The pros with the first is that kind of OS will be able to appeal to the masses. The cons are that it is a more complicated OS that may have stability and support issues.
The second is usually the exact opposite.
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
I completely agree.
After couple years of tweaking my PPC 6700, TP, TPII and HD2, changing ROMs every week, using Sashimi to restore my settings, and lately trying almost every Android build available on my HD2, I have to say that the first days with my HD7 were boring. No many post in XDA, most of them complains about the missing features, but nothing really exiting. Now, I do miss some features but my experience with this phone is great. Everything works, and does it really fast. I had to restart the phone only once in more than 2 weeks and it was just because I had visual voice mail in the HD2 and Tmobile had to change my setting in their end and they recommended that I restarted the phone.
Everything is smooth, everything work , I spend more time in the market now and less in XDA, I even get better battery live because I’m not using the phone that much trying to see what else I can tweak, I can’t check current widget every once in a while to see how my battery is doing and I can’t or I don’t have to do a lot of thing to improve my experience with the phone because it is out of the box by far better than any other phone I ever owned.
nicksti said:
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro UI will definitely be a seller as developers perfect their implementation and understanding of how to work in it for optimal user experience.
Developers should spend 1-2 hours flipping around in zune to see how they can create a nice app that doesn't look like someone copy and pasted the demo code
To be honest...
The looks and the flashy animations matter very little to me.
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Allow me to stream music to my car via bluetooth
- Allow me to print to my wifi enabled network printer
- Allow me to sideload files into applications (Important!)
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
- Allow me to heavily customize it
I'm not asking for a lot really
I mean honestly... PDA's have been around for at least 10 years already... I feel like MS have just pushed their platform back to the dark ages.
I want to see interconnectivity and flexibility!
I agree with everyone above I'd also like to see multitask and everything else people want BUT I want to have it in the WP7 way , not how we've seen it so far.
Microsoft needs to find a balance between having a "locked down OS" and a highly-customizable one. If a dump OS means a higher quality control and a brilliantly fast UI then I personally take it, that doesn't mean everyone likes it.
Apple really did manage to make a milestone in mobile phones with the iPhone but they somehow stopped (maybe due to succes) and now we have as I said an icon-mania based OS or an app-centric one. I think Apple could have done a lot more (at least after 3GS) and deliver a twist once more.
On the other hand, Microsoft learned (not copied) the Apple recipe and understood that less is more and simple things are more likely to atract customers although this doesn't mean it will also satisfy the more advanced users yet they can still do it ! If they can make it spot on with the first update things can only improve to an already refreshing and solid OS.
What's so wrong about being app centric anyway? I like the fact that my phone is the most versatile multi-tool I own. A device that can achieve a near infinite number of tasks that fits neatly in my pocket. To me, apps are the real draw for having a smartphone.
The number of apps is rising heavily, games ehh games take a little longer to develop. This is because Silverlight and XNA and Visual Studio in general is such a pleasure to use. When devs do something for the platform, 99% will definitely stay because they wouldn't want to go back to horrible Objective-C. So we're going to start seeing the games market sway to WP7.
The future of apps and games in the WP7 Marketplace is going to be crazy
I will just say something obvious,
but in a broader image MS will have a great great advantage
retaining it's great UI and whole concept/paradigm turned to "average" customer
but adding missing power features underneath.
That is also what makes Windows7 so great for instance.
And users will be more conscious no doubt.
AceofSpades25 said:
To be honest...
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
I agree with the OP and no I don't want the WP7 to become anything like the WM 6.5. Personally I don't even care for the multi-tasking but I know a lot of people want it so I would hope that MS does it in a way that doesn't hamper the speed and smoothness of the WP7 UI as in smart multi-tasking and not like my previous android which always had multiple apps in the background.
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Honestly, I think the reason for WP7 being released "prematurely" as put by some, is entirely business oriented. They just wanted to get on the consumer's mindset BEFORE the year ends, and make some money along the way. In a perfect world, WP7 would have come out in Q2 2011 with all the missing features.
I am loving my Optimus 7 though...and the biggest missing features for me are multitasking or at least some degree of backgrounding, and USB mass storage/file manager access, although the latter can be solved to some degree with a simply registry hack on the computer it is connected to. Also, the fact that I cannot simply load up any word or excel file I want without a sharepoint account is pretty f--ing stupid. Same thing with pdfs...
I do not hate Zune, as some do, and I find it to be quite the fast little program, when compared to something like iTunes. I just wish Microsoft did not continuously ignore CANADA, and omit all the features from its services when it came to a Canadian Live Account ( I am too tied into my live account to make a new one with an American locale, I use it for my msdn account, zune, xbox live, hotmail, and dreamspark account, so switching is much less an option to me ).
Overall, I will stick with my phone until April/May, and if it hasn't drastically improved by then, I will be switching to something better, possibly.
From the USA perspective, the launch of WP7 was done right before what is expected to be a huge holiday sales season. I just saw a news story today where they are expecting retails sales to be the best in many years. Black Friday is tomorrow and Cyber Monday is in a few days. It's competitors have nothing exciting going on now. Meanwhile, Microsoft launches Kinect and WP7, both integrated with their successful Xbox. If things go their way, this may go down as the season of Microsoft. I don't know if it will work, but I bought a WP7 phone and we are talking about getting Kinect for the kids . So yes, it was a business move, and probably a good one, to launch WP7 when they did. No, it doesn't have all the features we would like... but with over 1 billion USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
dez93_2000 said:
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way... I would rather have an Android, but I love developing for WP7. Fortunately, I will be getting a WP7 device through work, so the decision is out of my hands. The only thing I can do now is to keep on at Microsoft about removing the restrictions on the platform.
dez93_2000 said:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully subscribe to the points above.
I hate to be tied to a PC and to Zune. It has always been the reason I avoided the iPhone... And now it seems it's coming to WP7 I think it's the wrong way.
bmazloum said:
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great points. Definitely with the gaming. Some type of suspended gaming answer text then back to gaming.
Couldn't agree more with the comments. I love tech (I'm sure everyone on here does!), and Android was great for a while - something a little different, very customisable etc...but I love the simplicity of WP7, it has focus, and that focus is the user.
Of course there is plenty they could and should add, but this is V1 and I think we forget that too often. For an OS just out the door, it's fantastically polished, and as long as they stick to their promise to provide regular updates, and even more importantly, make sure that they only enhance the phone and don't start to break features or affect performance, then they have a real winner on their hands.
smuook said:
In USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly ! People somehow got used to think that if it's not iPhone like fame then a certain device is not succesfull. Being so much money in this even if they like it or not they will have to make it better and better (not that for me is bad in any way). I had have mine for a while already and I didn't think for 1 second going back to other OS.
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Try this, you may like it.
http://blog.walshie.me/2011/04/04/so-who-wants-windows-phone-updates-like-right-now/
if you're having problems unlocking your device, you should really hit the chevron thread. But for the most part, any issues with the unlock process on my end have been fixed.
As far as updating, you should check a few areas that have a nice update step for everyone and it works for anyone whose tried so far.
Then there is the option of actually waiting for your specific device to update via carrier.
It gets tiring to see the I'm tired of windows phone because it hasn't updated even though you like the experience...it's the first update...the very first one at that. Take a look at android updating, or even the god awful windows mobile updating
Updater
influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this. It's brand new, but, given who it came from it should work.
influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First update errors were caused by Samsung not MS.
Second update is being held up by the carriers.
I have an unlocked/unbranded samsung omnia 7 and haven't gotten the update, but I don't care because it is only a minor update and I know it is coming. Be patient bro.
influenceuk said:
Is anyone else getting a bit fed up (to put it politely) with windows phone 7?
I really love the OS, but this whole fiasco with the 2 updates is kinda putting me off! Not sure why i cant update like has been documented elsewhere on the forum.
I can't unlock it, i cant get the update, its starting to annoy me a lot. All i want is the simple copy and paste function of the phone, nothing special! I do not know why Microsoft did not just add these features before they even released the OS!?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
FiyaFleye said:
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with you on this. Both Android and iOS got grief regarding simple features. MS should have learnt from their mistakes, as WP7 was release years after these 2.
Any way i am now running Mango, and i have to say this is a Massive leap forward for the OS. If i had not have invested so much into iOS i would move over and just use WP7!
As for my previous post, i was venting my frustration. Which i think i am allowed to do and have an opinion. Granted the update only brought copy and paste and a few other minor features but these are massive features. Especially when using the device as a business device.
FiyaFleye said:
I can sort of understand the whole update irritation around here. Honestly a lot of users truly do care about a massive wave of updates... I'm not one of those fortunately... But with that being said, are people really this ignorant? I could argue that a million Android or iPhone features are basic and should have been coded before the release of the OS... Nothing is EVER feature complete. People have different views, different ideas, and therefore different features take precedent over others... You can't expect the OS to be released with every feature you consider 'simple' or 'basic' because nothing would ever get released in this world...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong and being disingenuous.
The OS (even Mango) is missing basic functionality that is delivered by any decent feature phone, and even some dumbphones. This same functionality can be had on any cheap Blackbery or Android handset.
Also, the updates are too slow. Microsoft should use a faster feature update policy especially since the OS is young. Once they patch the basic functionality holes, then they can try (but fail) at using their Windows Service Pack-type update iterations.
The OS has a high satisfaction rate because most of the people who are using it are fervent Microsoft supporters (most, not all) and this is quite evident form reading various blogs and especially various forums.
Most consumers don't even need a rep to tell them something else is better.
All they need to do is play with the phone and they will easily see that the feature parity between WP7 and even a feature phone is a bit startling and they will probably opt for a cheap Android phone or iPhone 3GS instead.
It's simpy how things are right now.
Hopefully they speed it up after Mango and focus on the BASICs, cause that is what's causing people to look at other platforms right now.
My mom wanted to get my niece a Focus (cause she liked my HD7) and she didn't want it cause she can't MMS decently on it (she texts/MMSes a lot) and there is no IM client. She got an Inspire 4G instead... However, this same person had no problems accepting my HD2 as a gift over the new phone, but I didn't give it cause my mom didn't want to pay more by using 2 different carriers and no family plan.
Yes, it made me a bit sadfaced (especially given how the overall aesthetics of WP7 is superior to Android, and females tend to weight that a bit higher than men TBQH), but you cannot even begin to argue with such a decision seeing as how even Mango will fail to begin to address some of these functionality gaps. She was migrating over from a Feature Phone, btw.
It was the perfect case of "I don't care how it looks, I care what it can do." as far as I'm concerned.
But of course I'm sure you will think this was only an outlier situation
N8ter said:
You're wrong and being disingenuous.
The OS (even Mango) is missing basic functionality that is delivered by any decent feature phone, and even some dumbphones. This same functionality can be had on any cheap Blackbery or Android handset.
Also, the updates are too slow. Microsoft should use a faster feature update policy especially since the OS is young. Once they patch the basic functionality holes, then they can try (but fail) at using their Windows Service Pack-type update iterations.
The OS has a high satisfaction rate because most of the people who are using it are fervent Microsoft supporters (most, not all) and this is quite evident form reading various blogs and especially various forums.
Most consumers don't even need a rep to tell them something else is better.
All they need to do is play with the phone and they will easily see that the feature parity between WP7 and even a feature phone is a bit startling and they will probably opt for a cheap Android phone or iPhone 3GS instead.
It's simpy how things are right now.
Hopefully they speed it up after Mango and focus on the BASICs, cause that is what's causing people to look at other platforms right now.
My mom wanted to get my niece a Focus and she didn't want it cause she can't MMS decently on it (she texts/MMSes a lot) and there is no IM client. She got an Inspire 4G instead...
Yes, it made me a bit sadfaced (especially given how the overall aesthetics of WP7 is superior to Android, and females tend to weight that a bit higher than men TBQH), but you cannot even begin to argue with such a decision seeing as how even Mango will fail to begin to address some of these functionality gaps. She was migrating over from a Feature Phone, btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
may I ask what these basic features are that mango is supposedly missing? because I have the beta and I feel that all loose ends are tied now.
Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Hero, Epic and now the Evo. I have spent countless hours trying out the best combinations for ROMs and Kernels, and I am pretty fed up with it.
Just last night, I spent 3 HOURS manually updating my girlfriends Epic to EC05 (2.2), simply because the POS wouldn't download and install. And at least Microsoft is including new features, not new apps that take up enough space as it is.
As far as I'm concerned, WP7 is a great OS, and I am sooooooo beyond dealing with this development crap it makes me irritated every time I do it.
With all that being said, I plan on switching to WP7 as soon as Mango hits Sprint with some new phones. You guys that own the WP7 phones are lucky. It is not worth the time or hassel to mess with Android, you will run into problems and I GUARANTEE YOU WILL GET P****D.
Hope I helped.
Dj21o said:
Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Hero, Epic and now the Evo. I have spent countless hours trying out the best combinations for ROMs and Kernels, and I am pretty fed up with it.
Just last night, I spent 3 HOURS manually updating my girlfriends Epic to EC05 (2.2), simply because the POS wouldn't download and install. And at least Microsoft is including new features, not new apps that take up enough space as it is.
As far as I'm concerned, WP7 is a great OS, and I am sooooooo beyond dealing with this development crap it makes me irritated every time I do it.
With all that being said, I plan on switching to WP7 as soon as Mango hits Sprint with some new phones. You guys that own the WP7 phones are lucky. It is not worth the time or hassel to mess with Android, you will run into problems and I GUARANTEE YOU WILL GET P****D.
Hope I helped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the main reason I won't root my HTC Inspire 4G and customize it. I've been there with my HD2 and know where it leads. My Inspire currently is like a pristine, un-trampled, wilderness in all of its glory. It works perfectly and smoothly and causes me no troubles. The moment I were to root it, it would cease being the pristine glory it is because it would continually get altered and messed with instead of just using it for what it is.
I've been there with my HD2 and know how customizing works. This is one of the main reasons behind the locked nature of the iPhone. Apple would rather have people using the iPhone for what it is than continually altering it and potentially getting no satisfaction from it. MS apparently understands this as well. WP7 is just as locked as iOS and they really need to stick to their guns. There are those who want the choice to customize and that's fine. Android provides all they want. But some of them want every system to be made for them and only their way. They seem to not be able to cope with any system not being setup to their standards, regardless of how selfish they are being. They want it all and don't mind others not having any.
eric12341 said:
may I ask what these basic features are that mango is supposedly missing? because I have the beta and I feel that all loose ends are tied now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-7-general-discussion/178807.htm#post1554773
I'll help you out, though:
Just tried a short video and it has the share options to Facebook, SkyDrive and your email addresses so it is indeed working in the Mango beta.
(My video successfully uploaded to facebook, NEAT!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then:
Are you able to send a short video to others with MMS? What about more than one picture at a time in a MMS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then in reply to that:
At this stage 'Messaging' is not an option in Mango, just email, facebook and skydrive.
You can only send one picture at a time in an MMS from WP7 Mango (can you send more in a single MMS on other platforms?).
EDIT: or rather i can't find a way to do more than one picture in a single MMS...there may be a way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Also, I missed the Mango release date. I don't pay for smartphone updates but if you can tell me what version of Zune to use to update my HD7 I'll be happy.
Last time I checked most people were using NoDo, and that's what people going into store experience when they play with the phones...
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
N8ter said:
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the people that care about that would be upset then.
People send videos through e-mail and MMS all the time...
MrNetrix said:
E-mail video? Since when do people e-mail or even MMS videos? My feature phone can definitely do neither.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Either you have a Feature Phone from the late 90s, or you're lying through your teeth.
Even dumb phones can MMS video these days if they have a camera (not all, but some - they're only dumbphones). Practically every feature phone with a camera can MMS videos.
To your first part of the post (not quoted): Free on Contract blackberries and cheap iPhone 3GSes can do all this, and more. That's not even comparing current WP7 OS/Devices to Android and iOS devices that were released in the same timeframe.
I'm not going to get baited into another heated forum battle, so... last response to you
If your only retort is "who does <something," then you've already defeated your own argument. A majority of cell phone users are on Feature and Dumb Phones. Millions and millions of people utilize the video MMS feature on those phones. And feature phones have email clients as well (some having somewhat decent HTML support, even).
N8ter said:
Either you have a Feature Phone from the late 90s, or you're lying through your teeth.
Even dumb phones can MMS video these days if they have a camera (not all, but some - they're only dumbphones). Practically every feature phone with a camera can MMS videos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I was just unaware that mine was able to since I never even had the remote need to.
N8ter said:
Can you email or MMS video from Mango?
http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-phone-7-general-discussion/178807.htm#post1554773
I'll help you out, though:
Then:
Then in reply to that:
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Also, I missed the Mango release date. I don't pay for smartphone updates but if you can tell me what version of Zune to use to update my HD7 I'll be happy.
Last time I checked most people were using NoDo, and that's what people going into store experience when they play with the phones...
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
keep in mind that mango is still in BETA!!! video through MMS is impractical I've gotten a few on my tp2 and the quality was ****ty at best. most people share through Facebook now and have smartphones that can do that ,as well as emailing them. so any other "features"?
eric12341 said:
keep in mind that mango is still in BETA!!! video through MMS is impractical I've gotten a few on my tp2 and the quality was ****ty at best. most people share through Facebook now and have smartphones that can do that ,as well as emailing them. so any other "features"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And how is your grandmother who has a feature phone going to view that facebook video from her phone when she's at the flea market lookign for deals? Everyone wants their kids on Facebook. Yea. Lol... More people share on YouTube than Facebook. You can make YouTube Videos Privates. But more cell phone users are on Feature Phones and if you want to share short video clips with people on dumb or feature phones you cannot depend on either Facebook or YouTube. That is the issue. The issue is not what you can do on your phone, or wha tyou prefer. The issue is the OS being designed in a way that limits communications with people who have not yet migrated to smartphone platforms... Do you understand it NOW?
Again, if your only retort is "I found the quality lacking," then you've defeated your own argument.
Tethering?
Mobile Hotspot?
What about better Exchange Policy support so Exchange Servers stop declining lots of WP7 devices from connecting to networks that iPhones and Symbian devices have no issues connecting to?
File System Support so we can use a File Manager and manage files on the phone? And more easily/faster bulk copy media of dispirate/varied types to the device?
Outlook Synching from Zune Client, and Documents? For those of us who do not have SharePoint/Exchange but don't want to put confidential contact information/documents in the cloud? For those who don't know... Windows Live (Hotmail - which shares the same base login for Live) has a bad history when it comes to Account hacking/hijacking.
A notification tray so that you can see what you got while you were asleep or your phone was silenced/put away (I'm talking beyond the Social notifications pane, which only covers stuff you can already see in the Facebook/Twitter app, etc.) without hopping into several applications? (swipe left from Home, App List. Swipe Right, Notification Cache).
Does the Video Camera settings save in Mango, at least?
Only loosely related, but it would be nice if they allowed us to suscribe more than one RSS feed in Windows Live...
DLNA support at the platform level, not just from specific phone models/OEMs? Every decent Android device has this, and the iPhone has AirPlay.
Turn by Turn is still pretty bad in Mango, and I think I've already mentioned it but I still can't get over the insane feature drop-off from WM to WP7 IRT Bing Maps... It's still borderline unbelievable to me...
Universal Search?
Has Codec support been expanded? If you email someone a WMV and their phone doesn't support that CODEC, well, too bad?
I can continue
N8ter said:
So, no. You can't do it. Apparently you can at least email them now, however...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't possibly be serious. Using the capabilities of a beta, that is not even close to feature complete, as proof that the finished release of the update won't include MMS video? That just boggles the mind.
N8ter said:
This is like telling a Mac user to buy a PC because I have Windows 8 Beta and it's awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How so? I thought this thread was about WP7 users being "fed up" with the OS. Given that, it seems more to me like telling people who own a PC, but aren't very happy with Win7, to have patience because a new version of the OS is coming. That may or may not be good advice, but it is a more correct analogy.
MartyLK said:
That's the main reason I won't root my HTC Inspire 4G and customize it. I've been there with my HD2 and know where it leads. My Inspire currently is like a pristine, un-trampled, wilderness in all of its glory. It works perfectly and smoothly and causes me no troubles. The moment I were to root it, it would cease being the pristine glory it is because it would continually get altered and messed with instead of just using it for what it is.
I've been there with my HD2 and know how customizing works. This is one of the main reasons behind the locked nature of the iPhone. Apple would rather have people using the iPhone for what it is than continually altering it and potentially getting no satisfaction from it. MS apparently understands this as well. WP7 is just as locked as iOS and they really need to stick to their guns. There are those who want the choice to customize and that's fine. Android provides all they want. But some of them want every system to be made for them and only their way. They seem to not be able to cope with any system not being setup to their standards, regardless of how selfish they are being. They want it all and don't mind others not having any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you 110%. Android is open source and all about customizations, if you choose to do so. I know the GSII is coming to Sprint in August, but I'm not sure if I can hold back with all the power that device has. It runs quite well and the most I would do is underclock the phone to conserve my battery. I have fully customized my Evo, but I cannot sync my emails, my data has to be turned off, and I need a task killer all the time or my battery dies really quick.
With WP7, you don't need to worry about those features, and you get free applications *cough*. I mean, I hate having to go through all of the troubles to get these things to work properly, but I love the variety that I have.
WP7 runs sooo smooth and there is over 500 features being applied in Mango, and I really want simplicity and that beautiful UI.
What do you think is more important?
Hi,
I am tired of my current WP7, its almost 4 months now and their has been no major development in the APP market scene.. everyone just release initial app and than forget about it with no updates and no improvements.. the Gaming market scene of Xbox is pretty much dead too with no new fun game, I had pretty bad experience with Sonic which is practically unplayable and other boring games which have started coming out recently.. it seems Xbox is releasing games just for the heck of it.. ex: geodefence and tentacles.. boring not worth paying which are like free in android market..
I am really getting inclined to give up my WP7 and switch to Android now and buy Galaxy S2.. its has some plus points and some minus points:
Plus:
I can expand my memory.
Looks better.
Its Smoled 'Plus'.
It might have better battery? I am not sure about this.
Established Android market.
Minus:
Its too big for my pocket.
No ZUNE Pass like service.
I have to give up my Achievements Score and I dont know if they have anything similar to this.
I have never used Android and have never seen one ever before.. its completely new to me and I dont even know where is the settings option, I dont know if I will like it after using WM6.5 and now WP7 for last 7 years. I have seen Iphone before and used it for like a week, but never spend even 20 secs with an Android phone.
With all the hype surround MANGO which I am waiting for, I dont think Microsoft will release any major update after that for a really long time.. If this MANGO dosent work and the APP and GAMES Marketplace dosent become more vibrant than it is right now.. than I am thinking this WP7 could just become a device for people could not afford phones like Iphone and GALAXY S2, like a second option, a second choice market, which I am scared of.. I want to own the best and not the second choice.. and right now it seems GALAXY S2 with its ANDROID thing is the best phone in market.
Hmm. Not sure if I quite get where you're coming from with the apps and games thing. Over the last month, a ton of apps, big names and small, have come to the platform. A ton more coming and updated post-Mango. I mean, the market will most likely hit 30k apps soon. I don't have, nor do I use, 30k apps on my phone, not to mention the 100k+ or 400k+ of android and iphone, respectively.
Also, I'm pretty sure that every installed app, or almost every installed app, on my phone has seen an update... several at that. So, I missed you on the "no updates and no improvements" part. Are there specific apps that YOU are missing, or need that you can't find in the windows marketplace?
Games-wise, well that's a matter of preference. Games you find boring, others may find greatly exciting. For example, one recent game which has come to the platform that I like is Arcane Tower Defense. It's a fantasy version of the classic tower defense genre with some twists.
I also like little games like Vanessa Saint-Pierre Delacroix and her Nightmare. But, after Mango there will be many games including multiplayer fighting games, RPGs, you name it, real time and turn-based.
As to the GS2. I haven't used it personally. I do know you can't get xbox live benefits like achievments, however. I'm sure somebody else here is more informed on the phone than I. I hear it's a killer phone, though. And, there may also be a WP7 version of the phone as well.
But, dig around a bit and check out the apps that have hit the marketplace in the last month or so as well as the games. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. Then again...
Purple11 said:
With all the hype surround MANGO which I am waiting for, I dont think Microsoft will release any major update after that for a really long time..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are on a yearly cycle for major updates, like pretty much everyone else.
I am finding it increasingly difficult to do business with this phone, its been so long and yet their is no decent Calendar App like Pocket Informant. The built in calendar app is very basic, I want to create recurring appointment on every first Tuesday of a month which was possible on PI8 but not here.
I miss Apps like SPB Diary which let me scroll my entire contacts and entire days appointments right from the front screen, and SPB Pocket Plus which basically was what Android is right now, a choice of multiple home screens with one app, thats what SPB Pocket Plus was.
I want Resco Audio Recorder which auto recorded all my incoming and outgoing calls, not because I want to spy but because if someone tells me large reference number on phone I dont have to tap and write at that moment, I could just say go ahead i am writing it down, and later I would just play back that call and note down what was that number.
I want the missing file explorer which is their present in android right now.
Metratrader 4 app for real time live trading execution in currency and stocks right from your phone, nothing like that exists in WP7, I know we have it for Iphone I dont know about android..
We say we have so many number of apps and things like that, but look at the top 10 PAID apps in each of the categories..
Business:
6 are language learning, 3 are business cards, 2 are time tracker and one to tie knots...
Tools and Productivity:
2 flashlights, 1 night clock, 1 air horn, 1, dog whistle, 1 that saves pic in pdf format and calls itself 'scanner' (very poor scanning my direct camera photo is better than their PDF it include handy scan app too), 2 remote desktop (10 USD each)..
Personal Finance:
7 budget software (all exactly same, just store your spending, nothing else, useless, nothing like SPB Finance), remaninf 4 are market watch apps which all just does the same thing which is stream rates of top 10 cos from yahoo or google.. , no decent wallet app like CODEwallet Pro where we could create nice cards from desktop and sync it to wallet on phone, no actual trading app.. nothing..
Sounds like Android is a better fit for you.
PG2G said:
Sounds like Android is a better fit for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. Agreed.
In this kind of needs and preferences better try Android. WP7 is not really meant for this type of usage. This is what I have found for myself and while WP7 started to be frustrating after few months, Android solved everything for me in every respect.
I also want to see Mango and keep my Optimus 7 however some things are still not in the pipeline, like file explorers, USB docs/email sync and some apps like Opera Mini... And I'm afraid there won't by alternatives for core apps of WP7 either.
I understand your points well. I would also suggest that
Android is the right choise.
Just another way to look at things i would like to mention is, maybe most of the things you miss is just ways you USED to work with your phone? What ever WP is, its a new way to interact with your phone. For a old WM user like me, it was very wierd in the start, and i felt naked. I got used to it thou and currently having a replacment Android phone, while my current device is in for service. And now i miss my WP. It's strange how you miss the cow's afterwards.
Im staying with WP.
Just some thoughts from another side.
um..
I was thinking the same thing about switching to android, but I wont abandon wp all together. I'll give it a good year to mature
We have omnia7 and galaxy s. Of course the galaxy s fits better to my hardcore needs because it has al lot more options and you have a lot of custom roms and so on. BUT sometimes I'm really jealous about Omnia 7 perfect materials. And android is never as perfect designed as wp7. Android and its tons of different launchers is looking like an evolution of symbian and iOS. WP7 is something fresh and easy. Its what a phone is ment to be: a very easy and fast (internet) communication device. Not an overfilled little laptop.
So it's your choice: easy to use and well designed Omnia7 or a powerful plastic (gaming-)device with childish looking interface.
By the way: mango is awesome!
The galaxy s II is one of the finest android phones available. If you're looking for a feature set more similar to the old windows mobile ( and it sounds like you are), then Android is truly your best option.
Microsoft doesn't want a "complicated" phone platform anymore. They want consumer-facing, easy to use, social media and entertainment oriented with the ability to handle corporate e-mail, calendar and document editing if you need it in a pinch.
I doubt we're going to see anything like file managers or similar anytime soon, if at all.
I owned a Galaxy s II before selling it to a friend who needed a new phone, and I would purchase the device again in a heartbeat if I decided I wanted to use android.
Andrmgic said:
I doubt we're going to see anything like file managers or similar anytime soon, if at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I'm pretty sure we won't. Hell, even desktop operating systems may be moving away from file managers.
PG2G said:
Yeah I'm pretty sure we won't. Hell, even desktop operating systems may be moving away from file managers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah maybe in 2050. You must be kidding. For any profi usage these are the basics.
I will give this phone a try till December, if nothing comes up in the APP scene better than what it is at present than I will switch to Android perm for good.. I am not the one who keeps two phones or keep migrating from one to another OS frequently.. I just choose the best and stay with it for a long time..
i desperately need a better calendar app for appointments.. this whole wide calendar tile is just a wasteful eye candy which i have come to realize.. auto call recording which i guess with the absence of file explorer will never come to wp7.. i want to make my phone a USB on the Go like thing, a pen drive... 16 GB of total storage is too small..
I dont know how microsoft thinks they make a 3 horse race with these features missing.. its basically a two horse race, racing in front and a 3rd horse limping behind to catch the bets by people made by error ...
Purple11 said:
I dont know how microsoft thinks they make a 3 horse race with these features missing.. its basically a two horse race, racing in front and a 3rd horse limping behind to catch the bets by people made by error ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have very specific requirements that the average user doesn't care about. Recording phone calls without consent isn't even legal in many states.
PG2G said:
You have very specific requirements that the average user doesn't care about. Recording phone calls without consent isn't even legal in many states.
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Yep. Microsoft isn't gearing this phone toward the likes of the geeks and tech nerds that frequent this forum. The average user makes up the majority of users, thus the demographic Microsoft seeks to lure to WP7.
As far as what you need, you will find that some of these things will come to WP7 like various calendar apps due to the vast number of APIs made available by MS.
You may also find that some of these things may never come or may not come for quite some time. I, for one, hope to never see a file explorer on WP7.
The fact is, this isn't android and that's a good thing. Each has its own role to play and fits in where they fit in. If WP7 had been around back in 2008 as the alternative to ATT and the iphone, android would most likely be a niche device for the above geeks and tech nerds.
That being said, only Android will fully fill your present and perhaps future needs.
Good luck. Whichever direction ya go.
Wyn6 said:
As far as what you need, you will find that some of these things will come to WP7 like various calendar apps due to the vast number of APIs made available by MS.
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That's one of the things that I was thinking about as I read what he wanted to do. Unfortunately, Mango only allows for read-only access to the Contacts and Appointments. The only way to create an app like that (that actually integrates with the existing calendar app) would be to make the changes in the cloud and let the phone sync like normal. I guess you could always have a 100% standalone calendar app though.
I also want to say that the inability to expand memory using SDHC card will restrict many companies to bring their larger good graphics game to WP7... I have 16GB but I know their are people with only 8GB memory and they cannot expand it..
Now checkout this game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CwSedSzckE&feature=relmfu
It looks a very heavy game by memory wise , if we want games like this on WP7 than 8GB device is a very small handset to have several of this kind of game.. I dont think gameloft can bring such games to WP7 with current restrictions on expandable memory..
****ty textures.. probably fits into the 400-500mb range.
The iphone version weighs in at 511MB..
You should probably get the SGS II and be done with it. You're not likely to find a better android device this year, and android will serve your purposes better than WP7.
It'll play 1080p h264 video in a mkv container without re-encoding.. and supports HDMI out using a MHL adapter.
Even with Mango's new APIs, you're not going to get the same level of functionality that you're looking for.
1. WP7 apps are not written using native code, they use silverlight, XNA or a combination of the two
2. There will never be a file manager or a task manager
3. There is no bluetooth file transfer
4. No Expandable storage
5. Small number of applications (this will be less of an issue as time goes by.. the marketplace is growing fairly rapidly)
6. Limited hardware options
7. No true multitasking (applications don't run constantly in the background until they are exited.. they do on android)
8. No Usb mass storage
I have both devices.
Maybe i can help you a bit.
I do have both devices (+ I have some more). It was part of the benefits of my last job and also part ( almost a requirement) of my actual one.
- If you switch to Android from Wp7 you feel like going back to WinMO a bit. Tons of Rom's,tons of walpapers but milligrams if you need help.
- The greatest benefit of WP7 is the unified platform. Maybe you don't realize it atm, but for 99% of people I've spoken to, it's a deal breaker.
- Not, I repeat, not my solely opinion: everything onscreen with Omnia7 looks better than on SGS2. People always want to tinker with the Omnia7 when I put both phones on the table (sometimes I carry the IPhone 4 with me also).
- SGS2 is literally bloated with redundant crapware. If you guys have ever bought a Sony Vaio in 2008-2010, this is worse.
- SGS2 takes mindblowing photos and FullHD videos (that they don't look like shot through a fishbowl).
-there are some neat tricks bundled on SGS2 but nothing you can't dl from market for free.
-battery is on par.
-voice commands are better on WP7.
-SGS2 feels like under development. 16bit graphics + wake up lag...for amoled+ and dual core? WTF?
- WP7 is more on the legal side, harder to sideload stolen/cracked apps. On android, on the other hand, you get hundreds of forums just for that.
If you have more questions I'd be happy to answer.
So when I first got the GSII I thought it was awesome! But 2 things quickly came to fruition.
1.The lightness was great at first but now its almost as a hassle for me, its TOO light, its like I cant even grab it properly like I did with my IP4, im constantly having trouble handling it and it just feels SO delicate! As if its gonna break if I do something wrong or drop it, its too thin for me, that's why Im having trouble holding it at times.
2.Android I have used before and very much enjoyed it but I dunno what happened to me that now its just too much stuff going on for me, with the IP4, it was simple and right to the point, in a way I appreciate all the extra little things that Android bring but I just dont care too much either, surprising cause im a techie. I dunno if its cause I am used to the IP for so long but it just seems like I have to go through more steps to do things that I would only have to do 1 or 2 on IOS. I always get this feeling of cluttered and an unorganized feel on Android while on IOS it just feels simple and straight to the point and organised. I tried WP7 at launch as well and I was super impressed by its UI, smoothness, how everything was so simple and easy to get to/use, frankly I just dont care about customizing and all that, I just want a quick fast and easy experience.
Now dont get me wrong a big problem I had with Android was how it would lag, freeze and sometimes feel like its in a beta stage, I was curious how the DualCore and 1gb ram would make a difference and wow! Im very impressed here! I havent had a single lag, its so smooth and just runs any and everything with absolute ease! This is how I wanted android to be!!
Another thing is the screen, I had 480x800 phones before as well as SuperAmoled and very much enjoyed them, so I was very excited to see the SuperAmoledPlus Display, too my surprise I wasn't that impressed tbh, the blacks are incredible, the contrast honestly seems good but not what I expected, the IP4 seems on par even brighter in some places, but the biggest thing for me is the pixels, since I had 480x800 before and thought it was great, I didn't think it was gonna be a huge difference but wow it is, the retnia display is MUCH better with text. Theres definitely a difference.
All in all Im not sure what to do now, I think I have a beast of a phone in my hands and it IS good but im not satisfied in certain aspects and it seems the months I spent with IOS really took a hold of me, I find myself trying to do little gestures I did in IOS. Theres the IP5 coming but who knows how much that will be and my contract is not up till next year. I cant find a good case for my life on the GS2 while IP4 has several.
Personally I think WP7 is awesome! But the lack of apps and certain things I need is really pushing me away from it. Im not gonna lie sometimes I get annoyed with Apples restrictions and hate itunes but beyond that I very much enjoy it.
Is WP7 matured at this point? I keep hearing negative things about it in terms of sales and popularity.
Wow, somebody who sounds exactly like I was a few months ago!
I have the same issues with Android - admittedly, the phone I had wasn't the most powerful in the world, but then most Android phones aren't, and frankly it shouldn't be the case that it doesn't run properly on anything-but-the-latest hardware.
For me, switching to WP7 was a breeze. Everything that I needed worked straight out of the box - I downloaded Zune and checked the marketplace to make sure all the apps I would need would be available, or an alternative, and so far I'm only missing IM, but that will be included in Mango.
IMHO, whilst WP7 is truly fantastic as it is, it won't be mature until that magical Mango update gets pushed out. I know you can get the beta and what not, and as a Student I'm entitled to it through my dev account. But I'm done with all the hassle of custom roms, betas, and hacks - I just want a phone that works, and WP7 is providing that.
So in answer to your question, no, I don't think it is YET. But in a couple of months' time, when Mango gets pushed, it will be. And thankfully, all current owners will get the upgrade.
Interestingly, I was very positive about Android until maybe a year to 6 months ago. The problem with Android now, is that Google have just gone nuts - they are trying to make it excellent at everything, and in the progress messing everything up.
I admire Microsoft's slower, more considered approach - it means they are really thinking about who their market is, and working out exactly how to serve them. Makes for a much better product for those people, but not so good a product for the mass market of cheap-rubbishy-and-mostly-useless 'smartphones' that Android has created to it's own detriment.
saleswise its the new kid, compared to androids first year were doing outstanding but if you try and compare us now to the 3 year plus OSes saleswise, were just not there. Wp7 for me after the mango beta releases has proven to be the is to beat and with full-blown mango just around the corner its a hell of a bandwagon to jump on. What's there is epic and most of what's not is in mango. Sure you may miss features here and there if you enjoyed pointless and tedious tasks on android but wp7 overall beats out any other os in my eyes and I've now got 8 ex-iPhone users in my family completely sold. That's something I could never do with android.
Hmm....As far as things I didnt like with WP7, let me try to remember.
1.Cant save Camera settings.
2.No Drag and Drop files.
3.Stupid SD Card thing on Focus
4.No ringtone....
5.A couple of the apps didnt seem optimized properly? The eBay app in particular was pretty bad.
6.Not a lot of apps/games.
7.Dont have or use xbox live, Im a PS3 guy, not a negative though.
8.again Im a google guy, love maps, gmail etc.
Overall very few little things. I very much enjoyed it, just as I said it felt like it was in its baby stages and was missing apps that I use a lot, little and big features etc.
In mango, 1 is resolved, 3 was (I believe) resolved by a firmware update by Sammy, 4 is resolved, eBay app works fine now but it underwent an update about a week and a half ago that aided in speeding that up. 6, we now have 25,000 and there's actually good games that aren't xbl now. Google maps has been reproduced in an app called gmaps though I was a google guy and I'm pretty impressed with the latest Bing maps. Of course I think ovi maps will blow em all away... Gmail works fine, I've used it since wp7 first came out and loved it from the start.
OH and no native youtube app which I love on Android, thought that was weird.
solidkevin said:
Hmm....As far as things I didnt like with WP7, let me try to remember.
1.Cant save Camera settings.
2.No Drag and Drop files.
3.Stupid SD Card thing on Focus
4.No ringtone....
5.A couple of the apps didnt seem optimized properly? The eBay app in particular was pretty bad.
6.Not a lot of apps/games.
7.Dont have or use xbox live, Im a PS3 guy, not a negative though.
8.again Im a google guy, love maps, gmail etc.
Overall very few little things. I very much enjoyed it, just as I said it felt like it was in its baby stages and was missing apps that I use a lot, little and big features etc.
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Click to collapse
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.
Lazytube while not native has proven to be in my opinion the best YouTube app on any OS
I have gone from WM, to iOS, to Android, back to iOS, back to Android, to WP7, back to Android, and then back to WP7. I like to keep up with all the advances in technology.
I currently have an IP4 for work, HD7S for personal, and the Iconia A500 tablet. This gives me access to all the apps for all three platforms.
My first run with WP7 was great, but the lack of skydrive integration struck me as stupid. So, I went back to Android for a while (more on that later). I am now running the Mango Beta, and the skydrive integration is a key factor in the usability of this phone for me. Without access to an SD or external memory storage device, it makes using WP7 for anything serious very difficult. Now, I just do my file management on skydrive (from my laptop or desktop) and it works beautifully for my needs. I also use Windows Live Mesh to sync my skydrive data between all of my PCs.
There are so many little things in Mango that you don't notice right away. It's these little things that impress me the most with where MS is taking the WP7 platform.
I don't hate iOS or Android, however, iOS is nice and simple but almost preschoolish in it's nature. It's hard to get excited about grids of icons. iOS fanboys will say, WP7 is just a bunch of tiles. This is a gross understatement of what WP7 is. This is all they have to combat an OS they do not understand. For me, the WP7 UI is all about intelligence. Where iOS is preschool, WP7 is about to graduate highschool and start college. Don't get me wrong, I realize this is a dramatization but there is a point. I prefer things in my life that make me feel more intelligent. iOS does not do that for me. It actually makes me feel more like a sheeple.
Android has a lot going for it. It also has a lot going against it. There are too many flavors of Android and too many variations of features and capability. This causes problems with apps not working on your particular device, Devs not supporting your particular device, your device not getting updates to enhance app support, etc. The other major issue with Android, one rogue app can wreak havoc on the entire system. This rogue app can kill battery life, hinder performance and just ruin the entire experience. This is much like Windows 95/98 before XP helped get the app management under more control. Another issue is with the way updates are handled. Once malware starts spreading on Android, it will be much more difficult to get necessary patches/updates because of the update distribution model using by Android OEMs.
I originally upgraded my Samsung Focus (which was in the box for a few months) to Mango. I was so impressed with the update, I picked up an HD7S. This device, along with Mango, has managed to convince me to use WP7 on a daily basis. The most important apps for me are: LED flashlight, GPS/Speedometer, USA Today, Engadget, BoA, DirecTV, eBay, CraigsList, Netflix, Wikipedia. All these apps are available on WP7. I also appreciate the built-in hotmail and exchange support, Office, Zune, Xbox, and the social integration aspects coming with the Mango update. I really wish there was an HBO Go app available though.
So, in short, while there is no single mobile platform that is the best at everything, WP7 (with Mango update) is what works best for me.
z33dev33l said:
Lazytube while not native has proven to be in my opinion the best YouTube app on any OS
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I 100% agree with you. It's an amazing youtube app.
There is a "native" app that IE will look for. It works okay... good for embedded stuff.
doministry said:
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.
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I still can't believe you still troll these forums a year later with idiotic comments like "inferior" as if they were fact. You need to point out that you're making an opinionated comment, rather than continuing to post as if Google demolishes Windows Phone. "Without Any Hope" - I can't believe I'm honestly the only person commenting on this. You go into every thread that has a hint of positive outlook for WP and you bash it and priase the crapstorm that is Android, and constantly get into a situations because of it. Just... Stop posting here if you aren't going to offer any real information pertaining to the OS, all you do is post your biased trash.
As for the topic. You'll see a maturing app market with the release of Mango. A lot of your main issues (with the exception of a file manager based system) have been addressed in Mango, and honestly, as far as files you can use SkyDrive in Mango just as easily. You can even set up SkyDrive in Windows Explorer on the PC as a "drive" and just drop into there, tbh. Ringtones and such have been fixed, and the addition of APIs are going to allow developers to really go at it now.
I also second LazyTube as the best YouTube app I have ever used, and SuperTube is a close second.
Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.
z33dev33l said:
Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.
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Sadly you still see their posts when they are quoted, thats one thing I wish could be fixed in all forums.
FiyaFleye said:
Stop posting here if you aren't going to offer any real information pertaining to the OS, all you do is post your biased trash.
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All of my posts contain real info regarding this OS.
There is no single wrong info I'm giving here.
If the questions are asked answers are given. People here use both OSes or more and also want to know more than your endless love for WP7.
And would be great for you instead of constant whining give any real info about OS instead of opinionated and subjective blah blah like "it's the best I've seen".
z33dev33l said:
Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.
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I just don't understand why he needs to go into every thread and state his personal dislike for the OS and admiration for Android, even if threads that have zero to do with any sort of comparison. And then he has the audacity to blame the other people as though his word is the ultimate speech. He's been doing it for a year, and honestly, it's getting old.
doministry said:
All of my posts contain real info regarding this OS.
There is no single wrong info I'm giving here.
If the questions are asked answers are given. People here use both OSes or more and also want to know more than your endless love for WP7.
And would be great for you instead of constant whining give any real info about OS instead of opinionated and subjective blah blah like "it's the best I've seen".
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I give realistic answers, I just stated FACTS as to why it would mature, I didn't spew some crap like "inferior to Android." You take your personal feelings of what an OS should have, and make them defining requirements. You're in a Windows Phone section, I'm sorry that people here actually research and like the products they purchase.
FiyaFleye said:
He's been doing it for a year, and honestly, it's getting old.
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You see it's hard to discuss with you because you're nothing than a disgusting liar.
A YEAR? I have WP7 since Dec so it's 9 months.
And my attitude changed in April. So it's 4 months.
Stop spreading FUD about my person.
The thing is you have no real answer.
doministry said:
You see it's hard to discuss with you because you're nothing than a disgusting liar.
A YEAR? I have WP7 since Dec so it's 9 months.
And my attitude changed in April. So it's 4 months.
Stop spreading FUD about my person.
The thing is you have no real answer.
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Click to collapse
Actually, you've been spewing venom since way before April, thanks for trying though. People can easily look up your posts. Go to the Android forum, please, spread your love over there, not here. I have more than real answers, thats your response to everybody "You have no real answer, you have no real answer" - "oh you started it" - wrong buddy, you start it with your garbage.
Pfft... And the call me a troll every time I post a thread that isn't "zomgroflmaocopter I love android so much that I'm gonna 'splode" I understand that this is a predominately android forum and that's cool, whatever, they have devices so cheap I could buy one for 50 bucks, of course they're the most popular. They cost as much as a feature phone in some cases. However, we have our niche here and people such as yourself,n8ter, vetvito, etc. Just tend to spread unwarranted hate. I don't even know why you guys bothered picking up wp7, most of you were talking crap about it well before you supposedly got it.
doministry said:
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really showing off ur trademark here. now for a REAL answer to what he's asking.
mango solves all of the concerns one had about wp7 in the early days and with SkyDrive,the lack of a file manager or drag and drop support is no issue at all to me or anyone else here that's made the switch (a workaround is in progress to provide USB storage support). apps really aren't a big deal like the are on android and iOS because alot of things can be done with the OS on its own through its included hubs and such, I can even watch videos from the full YouTube site with the html5 option enabled which negates the need for a YouTube app (especially since they don't show all the videos ). all in all you will love mango even in its beta state right now, everything works and works well.