After seeing this video here, I feel pretty outraged, not at the guy, but at Microsoft.
So, here goes nothing:
1.would you really believe today Microsoft has such weak security for apps marketplace, I mean comeon just https would have been nice?
2.would you really believe today Microsoft knowing all these holes and weaknesses has not done anything so far?
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Either way, it just seems too dodgy that Microsoft has produced such poor security and has not done anything about it at all. Put 1 and 1 together, and you get the big picture.
I might just be crazy, but well, that's what I think..
Oh please. what a stupid stupid theory. you've wasted your time writing this and my time reading it! windows mobile was like fully hackable and was that a really popular phone OS?
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
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Click to collapse
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
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Click to collapse
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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Click to collapse
so u have not used WM.... great, DO HAVE A WP7 device???
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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Click to collapse
i'm sure there will be a fix for any known problems in the next update! it takes time - cant believe your actually trying to defend yourself! its not a conspiracy get over it.
the moon landing was REAL btw incase you had any conspiracy theores about that too.
vbetts said:
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
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Wahay! Someone knows what they're talking about ^__^ OP is a total moron, end of thread.
You do realize that WP7 has outperformed both iPhone and Android launches in terms of hardware sales and apps available in the marketplace, right?
As for the security breach - it makes no difference as you still need an unlocked phone to load these apps onto.. Something most people do not have, and the ones that have used Chevron keep having to re-unlock their phones every time they sync it with Zune (or put the phone into airplane mode). Until there is a permanent unlock available it doesn't matter how insecure the marketplace is.
Also, pirated iPhone apps have been floating around the net for years now - most people still purchase the apps. There just isn't any point in pirating an app that costs a buck, especially when it's 10 times faster and easier just buying it thru the marketplace than it is to download a cracked version, unlocking your phone and sideloading said app.
What the.....?
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
JamesAllen said:
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
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They're running out of things to bash about the OS... Lol... As for the topic, no, I don't agree with a single word you said... It's impossible to make a completely secure OS, and Microsoft can't push out updates every four days to ensure everything gets patched instantly...
Wow this made me laugh pretty hard. You must be new to the smartphone arena if you think that virtually every other platform besides iOS hasn't had buy one, get one free or similar sales for devices.
And you must be a very deranged person to think Microsoft purposefully has security flaws, something that every OS has, desktop AND mobile.
Waste of time. I wish I was a mod so I could edit your post with "No one read this."
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
ameel said:
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
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mod, please close thread. Op states he was just "joking".
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Yakkaimono said:
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
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Click to collapse
wow... this has really worked out for the iOS and Android community hasn't it?
the more security flaws get unearthed, the more the creators can make it better. The platform has been out for only a couple of months... if you think about the task required to change over to the recommended https instead, it requires both server and client side updates... but even then, that isn't the root of the problem, the root of the problem is in the XAP, so a change in that would still require an update to server, client, and dev machine...
anyways, as said above... "joking" = close.
I believe the WP7 community is a bit different atm than the other communities were when they started out. So I think my "theory" has a bit of sense behind it.
But anyway lets just forget this and close this thread!
wow that's a terrible theory. Companies that make 20+billion dollars in profit come up with simpler solutions to their problems. Like discontinue an entire product line!
This thread isn't even a trainwreck...
The train just vanished.
Poof.
Oh well, at least no HAZMAT crew or evacuations are necessary.
I've read less ridiculous things in the Berenstein Bears.
Sorry to say but not very bright with the conspiracy theory. If you really want a conspiracy theory try this. Why would microsoft release a almost complete os to the public? Free beta testing my friend. You release an incomplete os and you have microsoft fanboys, elitests, and others reporting bugs, optimizing applications, sharing ideas to improve the os, and reporting various bugs that exist, all for free. Real world testing for free. But anyways this is really a waste of time thread. Please put more time and effort into posting threads.
Related
Hi Everyone,
I'm very worried about all I've eared recently on coming WM7
No cut/paste
No multitasking
No Storage card management
And a MarketPlace build on the Itunes-Jail-Model...
So my question is :
Won't we do something to stop that ?
Would someone start a petition saying that if Microsoft keep going this way, we'll all move to Android !
Maybe I'm just dreaming, but if XDA display this petition everywhere, we might grow fast and make some noise. It's not too late.
What do you think ?
from what I heard everyone at MIX10 loved WP7, as the majority of people will. We are just bunch of freaks. Even XDA camp is split up, at least half of people dig it as well.
It is high time WinMobile moved forward. Donno if Windows Phone 7 is the way to go, but I think the WM interface never really worked when touch screens came in.
As for opening it up, well I agree MS should make it as easy as possible for people to develop for free. Unfortunately it probably won't be, at least for a good while yet which is huge shame.
MS will want to make money from it, and gain market share and for now that means locked down with Apps Store route. Hopefully they will open it up for free developers in time or they will never gain anything over the options.
Won't we do something to stop that ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you think they WANT us to TALK about it, until REAL thing will come out...
It looks like weird advert campaign.
But funny, that people who bought their HD2 were simply fooled.
Few millions there, another there...pure FUN.
Honestly, I'd say there's roughly zero chance of XDA or anyone else being able to change Microsoft's mind on these issues prior to WP7 launch. They thought long and hard about all these things and know some of the decisions will make a certain amount of developers and tweakers unhappy, but really they're focused on creating a revolutionary UX, and to do so they need to control certain things more than before. If you've seen the demo apps from MIX hopefully most will agree it's worthwhile pain for the expected gain.
Microsoft isn't turning it's back on the WM dev community though - the tools for developing on WP7 are excellent (so long as you're already doing managed code at least), and now all free. It's impressive the things you can do with Silverlight/XNA/Blend on WP7.
Richard
Man, i much more worrying about that there isn't a release for the Leo, because it has too much buttons (what an idiot reason!!!!). I bought my Leo for wm7. I veryvery disappointed in microsoft. I going to move to Android!
Man, i much more worrying about that there isn't a release for the Leo, because it has too much buttons (what an idiot reason!!!!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..because this is not a reason.
This is game about getting attention.
Very, very strange way of advertising, to be honest.
They are sure, that people will buy ANOTHER 500+$ device just to get their feeble bs. Ridiculous.
(personal opinion).
-------------
I bought my Leo for wm7.
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Name it, lol. This is exactly same thing as Kaiser and its drivers(if there is someone who remember these times - users were told they will get DRIVERS...yeah, right - people did not learn, i assume).
I am not against progress - I am against stupidity and fooling people.
g'night.
pupakota said:
I am not against progress - I am against stupidity and fooling people.
g'night.
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Click to collapse
Well I agree, there is so much available which is good for wm5, wm6 etc but wp7 with new start should open up even more possibility of graphically rich and media centred experience. In theory that is.
Look at the development between wm5 and wm6, hardly anything in how long? Hopefully it will be updating interfaces only for wm7, spb and htc have both realised that people want more eye candy than wm could provide.
I love windows mobile but I like the iPhone package, only because it appears to work. But I wouldn't buy an iPhone because there might be an app for everything, but with wm there's a free app for everything. (Although not when big companies forget about wm!)
If WP7 is free to develop on, using MS tools, then fingers crossed the draw of fast fancy graphics and features will bring back developers from iPhone only apps. No doubt MS will extract their pound of flesh first but hopefully it won't end up locked down like the iPhone.
Then again, there may only be fancy graphics in WP7 and no substance or power left for anything else, but without WP7 don't you think WM would end up being shelved (and where would the little apps go then? somebody think of the apps). Perhaps Android is the future!
Also, why do they hate hardware buttons, give me a D-pad back please! If want to flick my fingers around I'd take up tiddlywinks.
im sure WP7 will be quite a success, you need to remember that most phone users are not enthusiasts like us. What the general public want and what we want are very different criteria. See how popular Iphone is!
I see no problem with WP7 not having
No cut/paste
No multitasking
No Storage card management
there is already WM 6.5 that does have these things and there is no wait until its released because we already have it.
Maybe in the future when no more WM 6 devices are produced we will have a tough choice on picking a new device, or maybe people will cook 6.5 for the WP7 handsets (upgrade with older version ha ha)
There is nothing we can do. Even if whole xda makes petition or something, who cares about some stupid forum where geeks want do to something?
Also, why do they hate hardware buttons, give me a D-pad back please! If want to flick my fingers around I'd take up tiddlywinks.
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Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more. Im suprised that they allow QWERTY.
Also where is competition here? What can phone vendors do to make their phone better? Most stuff is already standarized, so there will be bunch of same devices on market.
Personally I think they're taking all of the flexibility and breadth of applications away from the platform and moving towards the pointless "There's a crApp for that" mentality.
I won't be looking for a phone until towards the end of the year, I'll be taking a serious look at Android and WebOS at that time I believe.
MS won't change it's mind no matter what, they are trying the Apple approach, at least we still have Android, too bad cuz I loved WM...
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
dicast said:
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
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Click to collapse
well if they do mess up wm, then think what the combined effort could do with Android instead!
Seems everything nowadays (Not just Windows Mobile) is all about moving towards "locking things down", taking away the control from the regular people ala iphone style... and people seems to just accept it with a smile on their lips.
Companies are trying to control everything their employies (correct english?) do, trying to prevent them to use facebook at work and logs everything they do online... Seriously, what the f^** is going on??? Why not implement internet filters all over the world aswell? Buy the technology from China!
Soon when microsoft have killed windows mobile, android will be the only option for me at least...
Maybe Windows Phone series 7 or whatever they call it will be a huge success, but it's not windows mobile anymore, ok it's finger friendly but the OS will be as restricted as China itself. WM the way we like it will soon be history...
I will enjoy the freedom while it lasts and stick to current wm until I'll switch to Android...
khaytsus said:
I won't be looking for a phone until towards the end of the year, I'll be taking a serious look at Android and WebOS at that time I believe.
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Click to collapse
From what I've read WebOS is going bye bye. Palm will be switching to Android. Shame. I never used it but from what I've read it had great potential.
I am indifferent to WP7 till i use it myself. I am not upgrading anytime soon and am waiting for a the next step up from the Rhodium(in all aspects) be it an Android or a WP7.
WP7 will take time to work out the kinks. It might not cater to everyones needs at first but I have faith that it will one day be something only Fanatics and Apple Fanboys will hate. <GARTH>"We fear change!"</GARTH>
@ owziee
++1
Hope that, all of you guys, have signed the petition...
Of course it won't change Microsoft'sMind.
But "Who doesn't do, doesn't get"
It starts there....
dicast said:
The best petition is not buying wp7. Believe me..they will get that message real quick. It's not the end of the world. MS forgot that there'r other platform out there (Android).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you imagine MS will do if no one buys WP7S? WP7S is the last roll of the dice. If it fails, MS will get out of the mobile device market completely.
Except that it will hardly happen, general public couldn't care less about jails and even breaking them.
I guaranty there will be loads of people who will buy it because they want xbox live and zune on their phones and I reckon I'll join them as I'm getting fed up of phones that suddenly start becoming stuttery randomly, or has bugs that I have to end up waiting for an operator to release their branded version of a to ROM fix because I don't want to void my warranty and basically I don't get the time to endlessly flash new ROMS these days.
But I'll still be hanging onto my WM6.5 HD2
So I went to ATT and was looking at the focus, and the guy came up to me and said if I needed any help, I said that I was just looking at it cause im gonna buy it later, then he sorta laughs and says "yea you dont want that man" I said why? Then he started to explain how it has no apps, wont be updated, how Android is SO much better, how it wont get no support and how it is a very closed platform, how its too late in the game and will never catch up to android and iOS.
whats up with all this hate? it makes me sorta discouraged to even go for this phone....
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
bmazloum said:
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
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Click to collapse
cool , and did you played after that with the wp7 phone ?
bmazloum said:
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
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Click to collapse
Greatness.
This also happens in T-Mobile stores, all the time. The people who work in the stores are worse fanbois than some of the people on this forum, and will lie and cheat you out in an attempt to sell you an Android phone.
I have noticed an incredible amount of bian in Android's favor when it comes to the CSRs in T-Mobile stores. I didn't notice much of that in AT&T stores, TBH, but when I'm "shopping" I'm usually rude and make sure I get the point across that I "Don't need help... Stay the hell away from me..."
Cause I don't trust any of those crooks.
bmazloum said:
Well, that guy is only relaying what he knows, and nothing more. Just like when tv sales people try and tell you that LCD will outlast Plasma. They don't know what they're talking about.
I had a similar situation. Asked when the new WP7 devices were coming in. The guy said "why bother? go with Android" so I gave him the rundown. Told him about my history of phones, and my experience with them. I then told him how he may think that an open system is great, at which point, the other Android sales people came and encouraged him on. Yes. Open is the way to go, it's great. So many applications, blah blah blah.
Then I grabbed the X10 mini pro. I said, "this is a nice phone." and they all smiled and encouraged me to try it. Then I told'em "wait, what version of Android is it running" and one of'em quickly replied "1.6" and that's when I said. "That's weird, I thought 2.2 was the latest one? Oh right, that's what happens when your product is open to just about anyone out there. One program will work here, while it won't work or even show up on another one."
That shut most of them up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Major props! XD Damn I need to do this at some point!
solidkevin said:
Then he started to explain [...] how it is a very closed platform
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Unfortunately he is so right.
The more I use WP7 the more I realize how MS (probably fascinated by the iPhone commercial success) decided to stupidly mimic the iPhone: locked OS, no flexibility, no openness, no freedom, no USB drive, no file explorer, no way to import documents.... Only restrictions and limitations
I wonder when people here will open their eyes?
With Xbox live in the phone I 100% want the phone closed. I don't miss it being open anyway, if you need the os to be open it is easy enough to choose an android phone.
i do see that it is locked down and closed. given my experience with the openness of WM6.5, i'm glad that it is a bit more controlled. It's still early days and it's really hard to judge what MS will do with the platform. MS needs to satisfy their OEMs as well as the end users, and who knows where things go with WP7.
But do you want to know the difference between MS and Apple though in all this? MS are actually willing to work with homebrew'ers, rather than try and sue everyone who tries to go outside of what their grand master plan is (Apple). We shouldn't really pass judgement till the platform matures a bit more. Perhaps this time next year we will know where MS really stands.
The reason for the closeness and control is to avoid all the fragmentation that WM and Android experience. All the Android people will say, but 70%+ are on 2.1/2.2... which may be true, but given it a few more years where people won't go out and rush to get new phones and you have everything ranging from 1.5 to whatever they'll be at then, and OEMs/carriers don't roll updates to old devices. At least with the Apple approach, you're going to be supported longer than the OEMs/carriers would have.
root beer said:
With Xbox live in the phone I 100% want the phone closed. I don't miss it being open anyway, if you need the os to be open it is easy enough to choose an android phone.
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Click to collapse
Indeed, I certainly should have chosen Android. Honestly.
My weakness is that I'm a loyal customer. I always had WM6.5 devices, no Android, no iPhone.
But acually I did not expected the OS would be so limited and locked. It has never been MS' philosophy.
I am still very surprised to see that several xda members accept to be tied to a PC, tied to Zune.
Anyway, you cannot criticize if the guy in the shop tells you how much WP7 is locked. Because it's actually true, and potential customers should know.
Wp7 Xbox LIVE is a absolute joke. Wow I can edit my Avatar, and get some cheesy gamer points. Its partial Xbox LIVE at best.
I was expecting so much more.
arturobandini said:
Unfortunately he is so right.
The more I use WP7 the more I realize how MS (probably fascinated by the iPhone commercial success) decided to stupidly mimic the iPhone: locked OS, no flexibility, no openness, no freedom, no USB drive, no file explorer, no way to import documents.... Only restrictions and limitations
I wonder when people here will open their eyes?
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If a salesman was to tell me that I would say "SWEET!" and proceed to immediately check out with it...hmmmm....come to think of it, that actually did happen! lmao
I much prefer the closed system approach and would have that Android salesman buying a WP7 phone.
So From what I gather from this thread, you should go for WP7 if you want updates and streamlined experience, but Android if you want openness and more features but you may or may not get updates?
Im very conflicted here as I am a heavy android user and I do find that it can lag at times and its very annoying that I dont get the updates as soon as they come out, but imo the pros outweigh the cons in Android, I love how I can just connect it in USB mode and copy files, how I can use any Mediaplayer to copy my music (mediamonkey), and other little things, I really think I'd miss those features on WP7, especially the USB mode, BUT man its a beautiful OS and I would love to get updates as they come out, not a year later or even at all.
Very conflicted here, I really like the Focus but WP7 is in its very early stages and combine that with the SD Card issue, Im a little hesitant, on the other hand the Moto Olympus should be coming very soon and it looks to be great hardware wise....
argh.
vetvito said:
Wp7 Xbox LIVE is a absolute joke. Wow I can edit my Avatar, and get some cheesy gamer points. Its partial Xbox LIVE at best.
I was expecting so much more.
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Click to collapse
what exactly were you expecting? games are slowly coming into place and sure a lot of them are ports from iPhone, which is expected. As for xbox live integration, you get all that is expected from the xbox equal, that is seeing achievements, seeing/messaging friends, and the game splotlight. on the xbox you get additional things such as the music/video market place which zune provides. so what exactly does it not have which you were expecting? maybe recommend it on the future updates thread as part of missing features?
solidkevin said:
So From what I gather from this thread, you should go for WP7 if you want updates and streamlined experience, but Android if you want openness and more features but you may or may not get updates?
Im very conflicted here as I am a heavy android user and I do find that it can lag at times and its very annoying that I dont get the updates as soon as they come out, but imo the pros outweigh the cons in Android, I love how I can just connect it in USB mode and copy files, how I can use any Mediaplayer to copy my music (mediamonkey), and other little things, I really think I'd miss those features on WP7, especially the USB mode, BUT man its a beautiful OS and I would love to get updates as they come out, not a year later or even at all.
Very conflicted here, I really like the Focus but WP7 is in its very early stages and combine that with the SD Card issue, Im a little hesitant, on the other hand the Moto Olympus should be coming very soon and it looks to be great hardware wise....
argh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iOS and (now) WP7 phones (will) have a longer support lifecycle than Android phones, due to the nature of the operating system that runs on them, and the way the hardware spec is controled by Apple/Microsoft. Android users have the option to mod their phones up and [basically] self-support, but that only goes so far, you know, especially when newer android phones come out using conflicting hardware platforms (I wonder who's gonna be porting Nexus S ROMs to Snapdragon phones, etc.).
There is no SD Card issue on WP7. There's an issue of customer expectations and an issue of people having terrible reading comprehension.
If you want a phone with more storage wait for one to be released.
I would not rely on the [rather early] results of people on this forum who swapped memory cards.
Would suck to pay $80+ for a card and have it fail on you a some months down the road with all your **** on your phone, would it not?
The Gate Keeper said:
what exactly were you expecting? games are slowly coming into place and sure a lot of them are ports from iPhone, which is expected. As for xbox live integration, you get all that is expected from the xbox equal, that is seeing achievements, seeing/messaging friends, and the game splotlight. on the xbox you get additional things such as the music/video market place which zune provides. so what exactly does it not have which you were expecting? maybe recommend it on the future updates thread as part of missing features?
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How about actually doing what the name implies. I want real live multi-player gaming. Every other OS has it except WP7. I want the Xbox LIVE experience that we were promised, not this half assed POS. Microsoft had a huge potential with this.
My experience at the AT&T store involved a guy with an iPhone who knew the minimum about android but nothing about wp7. He was a little negative on wp7 just because he wasn't a fan of how the UI looks, but then, I could see that.
Honestly though, my decision to get the Focus wasn't because of some sort of brand loyalty or because of a list of pros and cons. I walked around and screwed with the CSR by playing with everything in the store, and got the one that I liked the most. I have to admit that it was a close competition with the Captivate, and I understand that folk have had a good deal of success in making the Captivates faster, but after having to continuously tweak the bejeezus out of my tilt2 just to get it to be usable, it was really nice to pick up the Focus and have it work, and be fast at it, right out of the box. Sure, that's not gonna work for everyone, but I'm cool with it for now.
I am leaning toward wp7 but I hope down the line some kind of app or hack can allow us to use the phone in usb mode, allow us to sync with other media players, an app that can play divx/mkv files, and jusr little things overall, hope wp7 can do well, just so much negativity I see about it...
arturobandini said:
Indeed, I certainly should have chosen Android. Honestly.
My weakness is that I'm a loyal customer. I always had WM6.5 devices, no Android, no iPhone.
But acually I did not expected the OS would be so limited and locked. It has never been MS' philosophy.
I am still very surprised to see that several xda members accept to be tied to a PC, tied to Zune.
Anyway, you cannot criticize if the guy in the shop tells you how much WP7 is locked. Because it's actually true, and potential customers should know.
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Click to collapse
I don't know why anyone on here is suprised by wp7. It has been reported this way for months and discussed on xda ad nauseum.
As for the at&t CSR, I have seen the same thing at t-mobile and if I was MS I would be a little pissed off about it. They are happy to bash the "closedness" of WP7, but don't talk about the issues with Android (fragmentation, lag of the vibrant).
I love Android but the WP7 experience is very good.
Those who bash WP7 should wonder what it would be like if xda and forums like it did not exist. How strong is the actual carrier support or google support for. Android? Dont think free is actually free. It has a cost too.
To each his/her own but choice is good.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good
well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things
vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Click to collapse
Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.
jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!
Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Click to collapse
Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.
Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.
It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.
As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.
that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).
To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.
If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.
Or rather, not doing as well as I feel it should. This is just my opinion.
The answer is whiny developers.
From the beginning, all we've heard is 'MS didn't release this API, that's why we don't have x app by y developer'. And then time and again, so small time devs give us their version of the app mysteriously not needing said API to make it happen. Sometimes, it's even Microsft themselves shooting WP7 in the foot.
I'm no dev myself but doesn't it seem strange to you that:
1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
And the list goes on. Makes you wonder if:
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
Smooth transitions and a badass UI only take you so far.
MS needs to step-up their integration as well while I'm on my soap box. WP7 really does need to be better than WM6.5 in every way except stylus support IMHO.
Sorry to any I may have pissed off with this rant but I'm jetlagged and bored right now.
Have a good day.
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)
I don't think it is failing, its just loyal WM users are hedging about a purchase (including me) because there's not a lot that they can do with the device as of this time. I personally think MS-Nokia partnership bodes well for the platform. I imagine Nokia porting a lot of their excellent apps to the WP7 platform (OviMaps using Bing data anyone? for all i care they could just use the ovimaps platform, its good as it is). I personally think its exciting and I'm looking forward to a Nokia device running WP7.
I guess it all depends on what your looking for. I dont need google maps, the preinstalled one works for me. I call/text/email all my friends or see them weekly so I could care less for facebook. I twitter a little bit but the apps in the market are sufficient. I keep my phone on vibrate most of the time but I guess it would be nice to use on sundays.
The only part thats needs some improvements to me are the browser, multitasking and I would love a remote desktop app. Thats the 3 things from android that I miss.
otech said:
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)
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Don't get me wrong otech, I put the 'failing' in quotation marks for a reason.
I know it's doing a lot better than most expected. I just get pissed when I got to trollish blogs like engadget and see the hate spewed. I have no real loyalty to MS, just loyalty to quality which WP7 is.
It just annoys when devs say such and such can't be done, yet it is being done already.
ROI is a cop-out as they can simply make ad-based games or apps. Don't some apps make more money in Zune marketplace compared to Android marketplace?
Yet Android market share is humongous. And why do they feel the need to also publish some snide comment about how they just can't develop for WP7 because the interest isn't there? It just re-enforces my view that these devs are whiny brats.
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
failing?
lol, more and more of my friends are now useing wp7 phones..
I don't really see why we need conspiracy theories where there are simpler explanations.
The main problem with satnav apps is that they cannot be ported simply because there's no native code access. Sygic or TomTom or whoever will need to create and maintain a completely separate fork, with almost nothing being reused between their WP7 and all other versions. That's expensive, and with WP7's tiny userbase it just doesn't make any sense. It's very similar for hardcore games.
Microsoft could finance these projects, but for some reason they chose not to. One of the reasons may be that operators are quite happy selling their solutions for subscription. Navigon already did a satnav app for WP7, but they don't distribute it themselves.
1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
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Click to collapse
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
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Click to collapse
The game sucks
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
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Click to collapse
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
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Click to collapse
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
Click to expand...
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how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
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Click to collapse
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
There is some confusion in this thread over Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.
Yes, Windows 8 will be capable of running on an ARM processor. No, it does not make sense for a full blown OS to be running on your phone, even if it can, because it doesn't make a for a good small touchscreen experience. There would always need to exist two different marketplaces.
I have not heard anything more than speculation on Windows Phone 8. But I am certain that if and ever in the near future MS were to launch WP8, it would all be part of the same ecosystem. It would be suicide in this market not to continue compatability. Obviously at some point there will need to be a cut off in forward compatability, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Not soon enough to start regretting a WP7 purchase.
Vintage144 said:
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
The game sucks
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
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Click to collapse
Are you serious or did you just want to troll/have no reading comprehension skills?
1/. I'm not a delivery truck driver but I was trying to make my way around Germany last week and needed turn by turn navigation while trying to find a restaurant in town to eat at. I wonder what would've helped out...? Oh yeah!! Working maps outside of the US that provided voice guidance.
2/.This was about how WP7 is supposed to be FB integrated yet the apps are better on both IOS and Android. And I'm sorry you don't have friends to talk to from time to time that would make FB chat on your cell an asset since it's blocked by most offices.
3/. The issue of the whole article is devs. Not the quality of the games. Learn to read!!
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
5/. You really are a moron to not see the advantages of google voice. I have unlimited everything on my plan but that does me no good when I'm overseas, something I doubt you will ever have happen to you as I doubt people want your brand of ignorance exported.
6/. All capslocks sentences get no response.
7/. I don't think you're a dev if that's what you're implying.
8/. This makes no sense. I've never been on ATT. I don't like Android as it's a clone of 2 OS, wm 6.5 and IOS and the only other OS I've used extensively is Symbian besides wm6.5. Don't assume because you end up looking like an ass in the process.
My points are valid, devs have behaved like brats with WP7. Which has less limitations that IOS did back in the day yet they worked wonders for that OS.
lekki said:
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
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I did a search for "Touchexplorer" and Touch Explorer" in the market and didn't find any results.
rhory said:
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
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This seems quite a silly argument. Anyone with any knowledge of Microsoft history would know that it is highly unusual for them to break from a legacy platform. WP8 is likely simply be a natural iteration on the WP7 system.
To my knowledge MS has done exactly 2 legacy breaks in it's history. NT and WP7 that's it every other OS they've developed has been a evolution rather than a revolutionary break.
WP8 will just be WP7 with the NoDo and Mango updates might get some additional interface customization but I suspect it will be able to run on current WP7 handsets.
That's just the way MS does stuff. The hard compatibility break between WM6.5 and WP7 is just not business as usual for MS.
I think it's highly unlikely that any app written for WP7 won't work on WP8 when it finally materializes.
IMHO windows phone is like the iphone now. Wp8 will not kill wp7. It will be the same ecosystem and all users will be able to upgrade. Wether will it run or not on old devices i dont know but i dont think its reasonable to say they will kill everything they´ve done with wp7 next year. Windows Phone is not like Windows mobile. Forget the old microsoft. Things are different and better now (god bless competition).
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
pillsburydoughman said:
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
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I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
I wouldn't say its failing but the OS is still fairly new and its a slightly new experience compared to iOS, S60, and even Android.
As time goes on, with more support and more phones from Nokia, WP7 should gain some more popularity.
lekki said:
I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
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Sorry your reply makes no sense.. and I quote
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
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Nobody cares why you bought WP7, I can only assume you bought it because you wanted one. It's not a matter of attack or defending anything, I see no reason why you're bothered that you have to "defend" your decision to purchase something.
Funny how you complain about whiny developers yet you're whining yourself.
lekki said:
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
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Even if WP8 will be W8, so what? All current APIs are managed code, applications can be transferred without even recompiling. Since there is no native code access it doesn't matter which core the OS will use.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/15/ballmer-windows-phones-arent-selling-very-well-but-were-not/
Thoughts?
I don't see how it could have been different:
- WP pre-mango is lacking
- advertsing went from light to inexistant
- there haven't been new handsets (ports to other carriers don't count)
- manufacturers aren't bothered
- carriers aren't bothered
- some services and apps are limited to the US
- XBL has been poor overall
- there's a new android phone almost every week
I'm sure I could still go for a bit but yeah, no surprise there.
Peew971 said:
I don't see how it could have been different:
- WP pre-mango is lacking
- advertsing went from light to inexistant
- there haven't been new handsets (ports to other carriers don't count)
- manufacturers aren't bothered
- carriers aren't bothered
- some services and apps are limited to the US
- XBL has been poor overall
- there's a new android phone almost every week
I'm sure I could still go for a bit but yeah, no surprise there.
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If I were a financial analyst interested in MS's mobile performance for whatever weird reason, I'd certainly ask what's going to be different from now on to change the situation.
If Nokia and Mango are everything Microsoft has to offer, prospects are rather weak in the near term. Nokia is struggling across the world and across the whole line of its products. Mango brings changes which aren't visible easily, and they matter for those who already use the product.
Neither carriers nor OEMs (apart from Nokia) are excited about WP7 any more than they were a year ago. Services are still limited. XBL didn't really change at all. Android handsets will still be popping up every week. There are a few new handsets which will basically replace year-old devices, but Titan and Radar seem to be really overpriced and not anything groundbreaking. Nokia doesn't seem to be able to offer much until next year, one device with limited distribution won't be a game changer.
Improved international presence will certainly increase the numbers, but that will double sales in the most optimistic scenario. Other than that, I don't see anything. Those "hundreds" of salespeople MS is hiring to work with retail worldwide is nothing unless each one of them is capable of being present at hundreds of places simultaneously. That Microsoft will suddenly learn how to do marketing properly is absolutely unbelievable.
vangrieg said:
If I were a financial analyst interested in MS's mobile performance for whatever weird reason, I'd certainly ask what's going to be different from now on to change the situation.
If Nokia and Mango are everything Microsoft has to offer, prospects are rather weak in the near term. Nokia is struggling across the world and across the whole line of its products. Mango brings changes which aren't visible easily, and they matter for those who already use the product.
Neither carriers nor OEMs (apart from Nokia) are excited about WP7 any more than they were a year ago. Services are still limited. XBL didn't really change at all. Android handsets will still be popping up every week. There are a few new handsets which will basically replace year-old devices, but Titan and Radar seem to be really overpriced and not anything groundbreaking. Nokia doesn't seem to be able to offer much until next year, one device with limited distribution won't be a game changer.
Improved international presence will certainly increase the numbers, but that will double sales in the most optimistic scenario. Other than that, I don't see anything. Those "hundreds" of salespeople MS is hiring to work with retail worldwide is nothing unless each one of them is capable of being present at hundreds of places simultaneously. That Microsoft will suddenly learn how to do marketing properly is absolutely unbelievable.
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Despite all the doom and gloom, I for one am glad I have a choice and am not forced to use an iphone or android if I want a modern smartphone OS. The anti-MS, anti-WP7 bias is real and true (not least here on this forum) but as long as there is a WP OS that is supported by Microsoft, sales numbers and popularity notwithstanding, that is all I will be buying.
Well the fact that Windows phone 7 wasn't selling well was an already known fact. they only manage to get their moneis from royalties.
efjay said:
Despite all the doom and gloom, I for one am glad I have a choice and am not forced to use an iphone or android if I want a modern smartphone OS. The anti-MS, anti-WP7 bias is real and true (not least here on this forum) but as long as there is a WP OS that is supported by Microsoft, sales numbers and popularity notwithstanding, that is all I will be buying.
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Well, so will I. The topic is about sales though, and I'm not too optimistic about this area now.
I'm sure WP7 won't be abandoned anytime soon so it's not that big of a deal for me personally, but low sales do affect me and you, at least indirectly. I'm less than happy about device selection, for example. Another problem is that MS has been given a lot of credit by developers, but this can't last forever. Sales will have to pick up to keep apps flowing to the platform.
That's what happens when they release a smartphone with no features (no common features of the day).
They can't expect to gain any kind of a market when the competition has everything the user wants and their offerings don't.
MartyLK said:
They can't expect to gain any kind of a market when the competition has everything the user wants and their offerings don't.
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I bet the name of the OS hurt sales 10 times more than the feature set.
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy. Zune never caught on, but I was happy with that. When WP7 came out, I passed those on to other family members and they enjoy them. I've come to the point where what you like doesn't affect my enjoyment. Heck, if the WP7 marketplace is compatible with windows 8 I doubt I'd care much if WP7 died.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
macjr82 said:
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy.
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Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
Peew971 said:
Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
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..why to be so anxious? Mango is right on the door steps, Samsung, HTC and others are coming with new devices this year. Nokia will be on the market soon...
So the OS and Hardware are at the same level as Apple and Android... And I think you also got the news that WP7 apps will also run on Windows 8...So what do you think the developers will do.....?
macjr82 said:
As long as WP7 exists and continues to get dev support I'm happy. Zune never caught on, but I was happy with that. When WP7 came out, I passed those on to other family members and they enjoy them. I've come to the point where what you like doesn't affect my enjoyment. Heck, if the WP7 marketplace is compatible with windows 8 I doubt I'd care much if WP7 died.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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well windows phones aren't selling but it isn't due to product its due to a lot of other factors...
I'm not worried. WP7 isn't going anywhere and when Windows 8 and WP8 are released that fact that both will be able share apps will push the sales of WP8 devices.
PCs, Slates, Mobile, Xbox. One UI to rule them all.
FTC said:
the OS and Hardware are at the same level as Apple and Android...
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Software is pretty close, hardware isn't.
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
Peew971 said:
Well that's the thing, if it doesn't sell it will eventually lose dev support so you do need it to succeed somehow.
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Sorry but this is Microsoft we are talking about. They have too much money to ever lose Dev suport.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
RoboDad said:
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
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Windows Mobile wasn't really succeeding that much for years and it didn't stop them.
That's true, but the market is different now than it was then. Look how quickly they pulled the plug on the Kin.
And, at its peak, Windows Mobile was quite a bit more successful than WP7 is right now. That's why I think the next 6 months are so crucial.
version numbers dont matter
In this segment, version numbers don't matter. Ms could name it wp99999 (5 9s reference) and no one would care. Its about innovating and unfortunately hardware specs... the UI can only go so far in convincing folks.
Kin has already been mentioned...
I read balmers comments too- that does not sound like an executive with any confidence in a product to me. If he isn't behind it, who is ? Developers won't matter if the os gets the axe from upstairs. Also, it looks very bad to investors and other workers when a failing segment gets money poured into it.
What to do ?
Open the floodgates, subsidize phones for $1 each out the door, and pay off every hardware maker to make more phones.
Will it happen ? Nope.
The people want BOOM! Today, not promises of it sometime soon.
RoboDad said:
I'm not worried (yet), but it is far too early to assume that we have any kind of guarantee that WP8 will ever be released. It all depends on sales over the next 6 months. If they start to trend upward, then chances are the platform will continue. If they trend downward, carriers and handset makers will lose interest in pushing the phones, and Microsoft may stop development for it. That would not (or should not) affect the direction of Windows 8 for desktops, laptops and tablets, but it could mean the end of Microsoft's involvement in the smartphone business.
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Absolutely no chance MS is just going to just up and stop developing WP7. Especially in just 6 months. First thing that comes to mind is how they approached the original Xbox. Lost millions (if not billions) for years but stuck with it. The outlay for WP7 is hardly in the same territory so cost wise thats not a reason for them.
If OEM's bail, we know Nokia wont be one of them. For them to do a reversal would be the death knell for them so no matter what they are going to stick with WP7, even if they have to give it away.
Another reason is WP is becoming a critical part of the ecosystem MS wants to pitch to consumers and businesses. If they abandon it are they going to be using iphone or android to push MS services and software? Even when WM was unpopular they still had some place for it, I dont see them using a competitor's smartphone as the focus for their software. Its one way they can get consumers and businesses into the MS world (as apple is doing) so it would be hard for them to essentially just give up a crucial way to get more people using Microsoft software and services.
Worse case scenario, I see MS and Nokia going it alone, but when it comes down to it thats not a bad combination. I know this forum would love to see WP7 go away, but history has shown us how persistent MS can be, and this is one sector of the market that is too important to think they would just walk away. Windows Phone is a long, long way from going anywhere.