Develop Bugs

Microsoft Haters

I may get roasted over this post, but it bugs me. First and formost not a big fan of the open source model. Have a friend that called me a freetard (I looked it up, some one who champions the cause for open source) when I had something positive to say about Andriod. Crazy! He is an iPhone, iPad user. iOs is based on Darwin which is open source. So when he made the argument for paying for software to drive innovation, it seemed a little odd. This guy is a rockstar in the IT world, but the iPhone smug is deffinately keeping him down. I was handed a Windows CE 1.0 device years ago and I could see the potential of this handy piece of equipment. Over the years I had some Windows CE based device at my side ever since. I have seen the rise of the Palm Pilot, listing to users complaing about how it synchs with outlook or doesn't until you buy something. I had my Pocket PC with Outlook, but the Pocket PC was not the rage so customers refused to even look. I was scratching my head as the Blackberry rose to power without the basic features I had enjoyed for years, it looked like a colorized version of a Palm Pilot. Enter the iPhone with the commercials touting listening to your music then answering a call. I was able to do that for years what was the big deal? Lotsa features in the iPhone at first were lacking.. how bout using songs as a custom ringtone... just plain old mp3 files.... nope you gotta jailbreak it. It was the must have items, if you had one you had status... it's a phone for crying out loud! Enter the G1 WITH NO OUT OF THE BOX EXCHANGE SUPPORT!!!! Use football, it sucks but it kinda works. Andriod is growing up into a much better phone O/S, better than the iSmug 4 (iPhone 4 for those who don't know a iPhone user or own one). Enter WP7 already condemed in the forums, even before official launch in the US. Windows CE from 1.0 to 6.5 were designed for lower resolution, smaller screens (excluding the screen size of the jornada and 1.0 devices) and a stylist. Phones are not like that anymore. A re-write has been long over due! From what I have read it's more like the Zune and it didn't act as a mass storage device either untill you installed a hack. I see the things it won't do as concerning sure, but as gamers argue the PS/3 is a better gaming box, it doesn't matter xbox is a more of a social network. I have seen the capabilities and it does now have huge potential. How many of you have installed Zune software and used it as a music player? Sure, internet radio is missing like a Winamp and it won't synch without a zune, that now has changed, but Winamp, itunes, any of them don't come close to the visual experiance and presentation of the zune software. Games that update your gamer score has my nephew frothing. Still has exchange support, better than Andriod when initially released on the G1.
Phones that had no out of the box tethering initially:
iPhone
Blackberry
Andriod
Palm O/S
All very successful O/S's. I think time will tell if WP7 is a hit or a miss, but in the tech world mediocre is usually the big winner. If tethering, mass storage support, and a few others are fixed in short order then who will you get behind? In all honesty I see huge potential in WP7. I have an xbox, use my phone as my music player... so bring on Zune software support! Work and play all in one device redesiegned for touch phones, I'm down to give it a try, to give it a chance to have some of it's limitations worked out in a few months. Don't be such a hater before it even has a chance.

You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?

AdrianK said:
You seem to be forgetting that not everyone wants what you want, there's loads of features which I consider unnecessary and others feel essential, and vice versa, does it matter? I don't think so. A friend of mine just got an iPhone 4, it's perfect for what *she* needs, I've never felt the need to ***** about how iOS is 'not for me'.
Using apps whilst on a call - I have never felt the need to do that, ever. I can, and it's nice to know that, but I can do without.
MS Exchange - I'm a teenager, what the hell am I going to do with exchange support?!
Tethering - I find it essential. No android doesn't have it built in (well, not included in shipping ROMs anyway), but I installed a *free* app, and now I can. I'm still able to sleep at night.
I agree that sometimes vendors can be a bit stupid about what they allow consumers to do (my girlfriend still can't set a wallpaper on her iPod touch, srsly), but as long as people are happy with their choice of device, does it really matter?
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You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.

Many of those of us that are complaining about WP7 are long standing WinCE owners. My first WinCe phone was the BlueAngel but prior to that I had a jornada and acer n20w.
We don't hate M$ but we do feel let down by the focus of the new WP. I don't use face book or twiter, I don't want to play games, I don't give a toss about Zune, I don't want to have to open a windows live account.
I reserve the right to feck my phone up in an attempt to improve/personalise it.
I don't want a model T-ford with the engine hood welded down.

I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.

awagner said:
You're, in a way, making my point... I am not banging on Andriod here... not in any way. Stating a fact that all phone O/S's must grow over time. WP7 is a re-write, not an upgrade to 6.5 it will need to mature like the rest of them did. What your taking as a ***** about something is just the opposite, just saying hey there is potential there for a good device... see where it goes. As far as iPhone's go, maybe it is different in England... never been there, but people who own one here often times use it as statis. There is a funny youtube video on a lady who just wants one regardless and all they have in stock is an EVO. As I mentioned in my post... my nephew cares about the xbox points, I did not say I did. People should buy a device that does what they want not what others are buying. A phone doesn't make you better, it doesn't raise your status, and certainly doesn't make you more aware of the environment. An p.s. it is based on open source like the others. All that said isn't even a rip on the phone itself.
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Ah, yeah I get your point, and I agree. Somewhat thankfully, I don't think I've ever heard someone try to sound big because they own an iPhone, but I've never been to the states

I didn't see your post as complaining really. The title of the thread made me think "oh no, here we go again." But your post was not what I expected from that title.
I completely understand how some people consider no tethering a deal breaker. However, just look at other phone OSs and you will realize that tethering will happen, with or without the consent of the carrier or the OS builder.
The bottom line is simple. If any of the missing items are what someone considers a deal breaker, just wait it out. We will find out soon enough how development, both official and unofficial, will add to WP7s feature set.
I personally have a few concerns but nothing that would cause me any serious grief. This may not be the case for others. Comparitively, iTunes is a deal breaker for me with the iPhone. Android's lack of native and consistent music sync is driving me crazy. I doubt we will ever see the perfect device, so I just try to find something that provides me with the features that are most important to me.
Your mileage may vary!

awagner said:
I would tend to agree with most of that a year ago. I got kicked in the a$$ by regular users.. same reason I got into this years ago. I was embracing change in the tech world it drove me to a point, but times have changed the way family's and businesses communicate. My supplier went off shore to the Phillipines, all my contacts there are on facebook. They know more about me then they probly should but has had a stronger team effect on our interaction. Good or bad technology is making leaps... it's a new direction. I am confident we are in the right place to drive the kind of change WP7 will need to make to have a more universal appeal. Nov 8 is big date for the O/S. I have a strong hunch no developer is gonna release a damn thing untill after that date.
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Much like you I am seeing that communication is very different than it was 2 or 3 years ago and it has nothing to do with the iphone (most users I know don't really text, send mms or even watch videos on thiers). What has changed things is twitter and facebook. A company or individual can accomplish more in getting the name and recognition of a product faster through these type of mediums than anything previous. Email is secondary to texting, updating your facebook or tweeting when it comes to communication with most of the younger generation (under 30). Most of my family that I had to force to use facebook is all over it now (ages 15-20) and our ability to cross reference our products (music, photography, etc...) or simply keep up to date with family events is much easier than before.
Windows Phone 7 taking advantage of these services makes it a desirable, easy to use product that looks great and allows growth in the future. The last 5 years has proven Windows Mobile is not going to sell and targeting only the closed in person who shuns social interaction through these mediums will be the fastest way to have a product fail.

no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7

Wow! I was expecting to get ripped from one side to another for merely mentioning a wait and see attitude. I am surprised to see other people get the point it is a direction change and much needed. A Great phone just does no cut it. With HTC sense and an Energy ROM I have everything I want to know right on the home screen, plus internet sharing, etc, etc... for me it's better than Andriod, but look at the market share for a once dominate phone. It's just not good enough, I think we can all agree a new direction for Microsoft is needed like it or not. I for one am looking forward to it, just need to rethink how I might get around the obsticals of the stuff that does not work. Hopefully, the HD2 will see a ROM soon hacked or not so I can get into it without pluncking down a bunch of cash for it.

orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
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Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?

awagner said:
Isn't that supposed to be in the first update? Don't you think an xda developer will do anything with it or somebody else might write something?
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It is already in the next update and is already being tested with the latest builds of the OS. There is no reason to be concerned unless waiting a couple months without c/p is going to cause a major problem for you.

orangekid said:
no cut/paste will be the ultimate demise of wp7
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not to veer this topic off course....but it is stupid comments like this that annoy me...and apparently he doesn't pay attention to the news that copy/paste is coming in Jan.

Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!

I love Microsoft! I especially love developing for them. I think Visual Studio 2010 could quite easily be considered the best development environment in the world.
I love the fact that most people world wide use the same operating system, and that I can develop a single program and expect it to work on most peoples machines.
This is why I want WP7 to work well. I want to feel happy with it. I want others to feel happy with it too, because I want it to be a roaring success.
This is why I b**ch and moan about features that have been intentionally left out

That's exactly how I feel, except mines is from a consumer point of view.
MS always makes something with great potential, but then they half do it. Its like that with every MS product except the desktop.

Hmm... Could Microsoft do better? Sure. If you think Google has the magic pixey dust to make the perfect phone O/S that will make everyone happy you need to get out more. Apple and Blackberry have their own issues. I cringed creating a gmail account when I setup Andriod on my phone. Sure Microsoft has privacy issues, but at least I know with them I am the customer. With Google more often than not, your not. Has anybody listened to Eric Schmidt talk? The guy is just plain creepy, Google had to shut him up. "If you don't like street view just move." Ok, so where is it safe Eric? Your place? Oh I get it he is saying he is Noah and we must follow him to his ark. Look, all I am saying is give WP7 a chance.

Just FYI
HTC Support
Will there be any upgrade path to WP7? Free or purchase?
"I understand the importance of having the most up to date software for your HTC HD2. At this time, there are no plans on releasing a Windows Phone 7 update for any HTC device. I do apologize for any confusion that you may have had, I hope this clears things up for you"
XDA is officially my only hope for the HD2 and if nada then this phone will be worth very little in short order
The only thing that could change the path of t-mobile and HTC if t-mobile is sitting on thousands of HD2's only way they could unload them after the 8th is upgrade the phone!

Im pretty sure all WP7 updates will come via Zune

francomur99 said:
Hi I had a Windows Mobile Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 and an Htc Diamond 2 but when Android arrived in the Market from Hero 1.5/2.1 to Desire 2.2 is been a great experience now. I am very happy and life is very easy. Android is the future of smartphones. Go for Android you won't make a mistake!!
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If the future means having to reboot you phone, Or even worse have it fail to restart because a poor App. [I will give it a miss thanks.]
I have not enjoyed being left without a phone the few times this has happened.
Just give me a stable OS any day. [ Reliability is a key for success]

[Q] How do you feel about Wp7?

iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?

Wp7 not wm7. As far as I'm concerned IOS and Android are dated by comparison and have nothing new to offer. Neither of them has had anything updated worth speaking about since 3.0 on IOS or eclair on Android. Wp7 is refreshing after seeing phone oses get sold solely by hardware or advertisements. Gingerbread was essentially a glorified pallet swap and 4.0 pretty much just created fragmentation and added face time. They're out of ideas, Android relies solely on OEM business and IOS will just steal any idea from the next competitor and act as though its innovation.

There is no more WM, WP7 is a new system.
Although it's not bug free and missing some important features, I do love my Windows Phone
It's as smooth as iOS while more vivid (Dynamic Desktop).
Also three hard keys is more comfortable to me.
Not sure how you feel about the endless ROM update of Galaxy S, at least you dont have to deals with lag or fragile system files. No battery drain or GPS tweak. All features work fine on stock.
Cannot predict the future but turn to WP7 is a good move of Nokia, hope their device come out soon.

j3ffmcl34n said:
(Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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yea I cant wait to play Modern Warfare 7 too

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like WP7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
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Its not too simple. iOS is too simple. I came from BB to iPhone to Android and now on wp7. And as somebody already stated, Android & iPhone feel somehow....primitive? Its a wierd concept, and I have to give MS a lot of credit here. Always liked their zune/metro UI and the phone is quite the breath of fresh air. The way you interact [through] the interface is untouchable by anything else to me. Its a very simple design, but it feels very engaging and satisfying, while remaining very quick to accomplish tasks ect. It really is like the commercials say: a phone to save us from our phones. Although you could easily get lost in the Xbox Live/games integration
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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As a techie/geek, I like to always look at what else is out there, and have tried most platforms at least for awhile (including webOS ect). I don't think it will overtake anything in the near future, but I do think over the next 12-18 months it will no longer be easy to ignore (kind of like what happened to android). After the Nokia announcement especially I think that it will grow quite rapidly. The OS is the first released OS that has felt more solid/responsive than the iOS. The tiles didn't appeal to me at first glance but you just gotta play with it once, and yer hooked.
Android is really nice and powerful, and fun to tinker with, but it still feels sort of half baked, and glued together. Even on the highest end devices it never quite felt professional. And I'm still a big fan of it just because I like to tinker and play with my UI's sometimes. However, after using wp7 for only a few days, its really hard to go back and play with my nexus one.
I also think you will see more professional looking & functioning apps compared to Android. This is something only controlled OS platforms can really benefit from, and why iOS has so many great looking apps, and why they all seem to function so well within the OS. Its easier for developers to create high functioning apps with a great UI when the phones aren't all over the place in skins, UI versions, Hardware types, API's used ect. I have apps on my wp7 that look better than anything I've seen on any other platform already (check out Cocktail Flow if you get a wp7 phone). There are some EXCELLENT apps on android, but for every one of those, there are 5,000 crappy ones that look and feel like they were designed by a couple of real life monkeys, and only serve to add to the ever-so-slight lag of the non-graphic accelerated OS.
Because it will be better for developers, I think that will also make it better for consumers.
Will WP7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
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Not "favored" in the near term as most power windows users will stick to WM6.5 as it is more feature laden. wp7 is brand new, and as such is missing quite a few more in depth features. Many of these will be addressed over 2011. Once wp7 has been out for awhile and has the power WM has, then I would say yes it will be very attractive to business/power users. The Office integration is very good although still with a few issues.
Although the current implementation is still more powerful than what iOS and Android have for MS documents. And the One Note integration is tops.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
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I personally was very happy about this. I think HTC, Samsung, LG ect all make good handsets, but Nokia has a great track record of creating very high quality and reliable handsets; and their integrated services (ovi maps ect) are extremely powerful and accurate, and will be a HUGE asset for anybody wanting a wp7 phone. Nokias huge global reach will help wp7 grow quickly, and also force the other manufacturers to start taking their wp7 arms seriously, instead of forcing all their attention on their Android lineups.
Once they announced this partnership, in the wp7 world, **** basically got real. A lot of people were mad, but I see this as a huge benefit to both companies, and especially the potential and current customers of wp7. The other manufacturers will also need to up their game on their wp7 handsets if they don't want to look like a bargain basement alternative to what Nokia can produce.

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
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Happy iPhone 4 user here - also an HTC HD7 and HTC HD2
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
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I love WP7. It's so refined. It's so refined that it feels luxurious. The keyboard...at least on my HD7...is second to none. The screen transitions and animations are second to none. The auto-rotation is the best there is. I especially love IE.
WP7 is just a pure pleasure to use. I'm glad to have it.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
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WP7 doesn't yet have all of the features those others have, but it does have a solid and perfectly function core system. I love my new iPhone, It's probably the best system ever created. It exudes quality through and through. But I feel WP7 is smoother and cleaner in general operation of the core system. Right now, the apps can't yet compare to what the iPhone offers.
As for Android...It's a perfectly fine system that lacks the refinement of either the iPhone or WP7. I use Android on my HD2 and love it in that context. I don't believe I could bring myself to actually buy an Android phone, though, over iPhone or WP7. I was considering the new and unreleased Motorola Atrix 4G for all the new tech and power. But having Android, I was like...meh...and went for the older tech iPhone 4. That's how I feel about Android. It's just not impressive enough to warrant a phone purchase. But I do love it on my HD2.
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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I see WP7 as serious challenger to iPhone. Its core system already outshines iOS in general user experience and quality of operation. That isn't to say WP7 is perfect. Right now it has a few glaring bugs. If MS deals with the bugs and adds the features, it has the potential to dethrone iPhone for best phone. That is, if MS can keep up the system quality and tightly control provider hardware quality.
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
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I have no view on this.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
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It's a genuinely positive sign for good things to come for WP7. I'm a little concerned about the freedom Nokia has with WP7; what they will do. But hardware-wise, I think MS hit the jackpot.
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
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Time will tell. The potential is there, but what Nokia does with its freedom of customization with WP7 is the key.

WP7 is definately a contender. I think it will take the smartphone scne by storm here in the next two years. Microsoft have finally caught on and know what they have to do. They seem to be sticking to it, we just have to sit back and watch. OS seems very solid. A few bugs but thats expected. As far as iOS and Android is concerned, they are abou the same Android is just more open than iOS.
But WP7 is only going forward not to say the other OS' arent. But im sure WP will excel past the competitors once they work out the bugs.

So an OS can be dated when it offers more? When it's already more refined and feature friendly as opposed to flashy and user friendly?
WP7 has potential ... but it amazes me how some folks ignore the obvious and talk up something while talking down something more proven.
To suggest that iOS and Android is, somehow, more "primitive" is sort of laughable. WP7 still has hope .. its been lackluster and unimpressive so far, however. The masses have spoken. I still think 2011 could he huge for the platform ... but a lot has to happen. Directly with WP7 and with not .... speficially outside factors. People don't seem to be letting up on Android ... iOS still the defacto end result .... but WP7 is sorta like the Wii ... the idea is there ... it might even end up outselling everyone .... but it's just different. Honestly feels like a last gen experience ... and not somethng catered to adults. No matter how smooth things can be at times. The Live business is really nothing more than a selling point ... and not a good one at that. Hype, for the kids.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Microsoft have laid an impressive foundation stone with WP7, the UI oozes quality and professionalism, I am only waiting for one more feature (skydrive document sync) which I will get this year. Beyond that, my HD7 fully meets my own particular needs fully right now. I have used Android and always thought it was very similar to WM6.5, my HTC Desire was very laggy and bombed out on me twice with corrupt SD card problems, losing all my data (despite using the best quality 16Gb cards I could find). I also found that over time, the Desire got very laggy unless you really kept on top of what was running in the background meaning frequent soft resets, in comparison, I never feel the need to reset my HD7 (it has reset itself a couple of times, but hey WP7 is brand new!!).
I have not used Iphones much but I do have an Ipad, which is OK but iOS just feels a little dated to me. As for the Nokia thing, I am hoping for some really top of the line industrial design from them, all being well I fully expect to be using a Microkia WP7 phone this time next year!

Not quite ready for prime time...
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.

edved said:
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.
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Agreed, and Microsoft's glacial pace of development doesn't help things, nor does their backpedaling on the update process. After I got screwed on yet another trash WM device that was never going to see bug fixes or updates I vowed I'd never again waste my money on WM and I didn't, getting several other devices instead. The biggest selling point for WP7 was that Microsoft would push updates and any user could get them. Then it's no, that's not entirely true. The carrier can block an update if they want to but Microsoft will push the next one through whether the carrier likes it or not. Which we all know will never fly because the carriers have, can and will make stuff up to achieve their aims and since Microsoft has already caved once, they'll cave again and again until, just like bad old days, every device gets one update that may or may not do anything relevant and we all get to sit around and wonder if we should wait or cut our losses and get something else that actually works. Being a Focus owner and given that Microsoft has annouced that there won't be any updates worth talking about until at least the 2nd half of 2011, I wonder that now. Think the Focus will be relevant by the time multitasking is available or will it be "incapable of running the latest system"? I'd say it's about 50/50 given the track records of everyone involved, including Samsung who has an even WORSE record for updates than Microsoft. This isn't some two-bit mom & pop dev shop located above the pizza place on the boardwalk, it's freaking Microsoft and they have what, 4 guys working on this on the days when two of them aren't working on Foxpro? Sure seems that way and I'm tired of reading all the half baked excuses from anyone and everyone who thinks they have a clue about what Microsoft does. This is a company with some of the best minds in the industry and billions of dollars and they're utterly incapable of doing anything that matters in a timely fashion because "they've been burned in the past so they're planning their steps carefully"? Give me a break! WM died years ago, if this system is "just a couple months old" like I keep reading, what were they doing for the past, oh, 3 or 4 years? You know, while iPhone and Android utterly consumed the entire smartphone market and Android became, and remains for the foreseeable future, the best heir to Windows Mobile? That's right, nothing. "Microsoft: Think Nothing"

What some 6.5 advocates fail to realize is that WP7 allows all its features (even if you consider it to be lacking) to be functional. WM6.x was so unreliable, and unresponsive at times, that sure, it had the features... But you couldn't run most of them without the OS crashing... You had to flash a ROM just to fix a feature... Yeah we got to the point of automating the cab installs, but the OS was far behind in terms of usage. So, I think WP7 is the definite step in the right direction, not two steps back, but leaps forward.

WP7 is better than Windows Mobile.

If you look at my previous posts I am been a regular basher of WP7 for last 4 months.. but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels. I dont even have the Nodo update yet on my phone, but I still love this phone more than anything other I have ever used. Great piece of technology, Zune Pass, Marketplace and all Microsoft services run very smooth and just perfect.
I love how quickly I can switch back from Application to another with such a ease. Its great for Multi-tasking. Microsoft has also added little things which makes its very comfortable to use, like when I plug out the earphones, the music player automatically stops and dosents star blaring in phone speakers.
The proximity sensors on Samsung Omnia 7 works great with no fail. So no more of me accidentally taping on screen while on call.. its very handy, every touch phone should have it.
Everything on Windows Phone is smooth and bug free.
It has made buying so easy by billing it straight to my AtnT bill, that I no longer bother to get a 'crack' file and just buy the software if I like the trial. Gone is the software piracy problem, it will kill websites like ppcwarez...
Listening, exploring and buying music is such a nice experience, nothing like that exists in Windows Mobile and could not have been implemented using that platform.
Microsoft did a great work on Windows Phone and I have found new respect for people working their. Congratulations and Thank You.
PS - If only I could disable the Search Button sometimes and had a little longer battery life it would be great.

The shiny will wear off soon enough.
Both have their place, but WM is a bit more flexible and more universally useful ATM, especially an HTC Sense WM device like the HD2.
IMO.

what i liked about windows mobile is whats preventing me from saying wp7 is better.
I know the ui is much more smoother and lag free but i miss being able to wifi tether, use my device as a usb mass storage device, and being able to download albums, rar files, and everything from the web to my storage card on the go and update my library all without the use of a computer, i dont like how wp7 is dependent upon the computer like the iphone is. And i like being able to use the file explorer on windows mobile to manage my files.
i love wp7 and im getting one as soon as verizon launches it but those are some key features that are slightly holding wp7 back

deadwrong03 said:
what i liked about windows mobile is whats preventing me from saying wp7 is better.
I know the ui is much more smoother and lag free but i miss being able to wifi tether, use my device as a usb mass storage device, and being able to download albums, rar files, and everything from the web to my storage card on the go and update my library all without the use of a computer, i dont like how wp7 is dependent upon the computer like the iphone is. And i like being able to use the file explorer on windows mobile to manage my files.
i love wp7 and im getting one as soon as verizon launches it but those are some key features that are slightly holding wp7 back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you need to remember one thing, Microsoft has upgraded WM 6.5 though several years. So what do you expect on the OS that has just been published for about few months?
Now is time for Microsoft to listen to their user and consider about it. Mango Update look quite bright to me...

Purple11 said:
If you look at my previous posts I am been a regular basher of WP7 for last 4 months.. but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you haven't OWNED a android phone or a current iphone.
Purple11 said:
I dont even have the Nodo update yet on my phone, but I still love this phone more than anything other I have ever used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You state in another post you have been using a 4 or 5 year old winmo phone followed by an old clamshell for 1 year.
Purple11 said:
Great piece of technology, Zune Pass, Marketplace and all Microsoft services run very smooth and just perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure this time? I'ld hate for you to change your mind AGAIN
Purple11 said:
I love how quickly I can switch back from Application to another with such a ease. Its great for Multi-tasking. Microsoft has also added little things which makes its very comfortable to use, like when I plug out the earphones, the music player automatically stops and dosents star blaring in phone speakers.
The proximity sensors on Samsung Omnia 7 works great with no fail. So no more of me accidentally taping on screen while on call.. its very handy, every touch phone should have it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most modern smart phones have working proximity sensors and music player/headset settings
Purple11 said:
Everything on Windows Phone is smooth and bug free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you consider a half finished operating system bug free... by all means
Purple11 said:
It has made buying so easy by billing it straight to my AtnT bill, that I no longer bother to get a 'crack' file and just buy the software if I like the trial. Gone is the software piracy problem, it will kill websites like ppcwarez...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PRAISE THE LORD, he has seen the light, The sinner has been redeemed. WP7 Set him straight and it can work for you too. Nothing more heartwarming than a indecisive ex pirate leech turn over a new leaf simply beacuse he is too lazy/unable to find cracked software for his device. MOAR MORAL LESSONS PLEASE
Purple11 said:
Listening, exploring and buying music is such a nice experience, nothing like that exists in Windows Mobile and could not have been implemented using that platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your educated opinion. No way were there ever marketplaces for Winmo...... Except for the fact theree was. And yes installing .cab files was so difficult, If you were inept.
Purple11 said:
Microsoft did a great work on Windows Phone and I have found new respect for people working their. Congratulations and Thank You.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How heartwarming. well WP7 fanbois your stuck with it now. Try show it an iphone, it'll prob fall in love with that and leave you guys alone.
Purple11 said:
PS - If only I could disable the Search Button sometimes and had a little longer battery life it would be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BUT U SAYD NO BUGZ LOLZ :cry

hungry81 said:
But you haven't OWNED a android phone or a current iphone.
You state in another post you have been using a 4 or 5 year old winmo phone followed by an old clamshell for 1 year.
Are you sure this time? I'ld hate for you to change your mind AGAIN
Most modern smart phones have working proximity sensors and music player/headset settings
if you consider a half finished operating system bug free... by all means
PRAISE THE LORD, he has seen the light, The sinner has been redeemed. WP7 Set him straight and it can work for you too. Nothing more heartwarming than a indecisive ex pirate leech turn over a new leaf simply beacuse he is too lazy/unable to find cracked software for his device. MOAR MORAL LESSONS PLEASE
Thanks for your educated opinion. No way were there ever marketplaces for Winmo...... Except for the fact theree was. And yes installing .cab files was so difficult, If you were inept.
How heartwarming. well WP7 fanbois your stuck with it now. try show it an iphone itll prob fall in love with that and leave you guys alone.
BUT U SAYD NO BUGZ LOLZ :cry
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha it was fun to read.

Purple11 said:
...but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed... I saw YouTube vids on the first looks at WP7 and thought it looked dull and boring, but after flashing my HD2, the phone is now slick, smooth, alive... I notice everything I do is quicker...
I show my iGroan and Haemorrhoid mates the bing search, pizza, pick a store, get directions... Blows them away!

hungry81 is right in what he's saying.
If you make a new OS, its all about to add new stuff, and update the old stuff, but without quitting anything!!!!
Like windows did, take a look at it, in Win7 we actually have DOS, and the very old win95 Theme, with a very good backward compatibility.
Thats a good job, and I was hoping that microsoft would go on with this positive actitude in mobile devices.
But no, they quit almost everything, everything that made WM so great and different from any other dumbass users OS like Iphone and Blackberry.
And you can't say that's only because the system is new, because as I read in this forum, WP7 is based on windows CE like WM, so nothing revolutionary.
you absolutely can't give props to the marketplace!
With my WM, I go to the internet site or eMule and download every App I need, without having problems to find them with very much good freeware.
With the Marketplace, almost every App has a price, maybe little, but I don't like to pay for something that in the previous platform was for free.
So why does WP7 fail in almost every aspect??? I'm shure, its because they want to stop piracy, so they quit almost every bridge to it (I can't find any other explanation).
No filesystem, no registry editor, no custom setups and even no flash in IE.
Now the biggest question: why do I own a WP7???? The answer is, because Iphone is to expensive and It sucks even more, Blackberry and nokia are not made for such multimedia, and Android, its more like a fashion, maybe its here today but not tomorrow, and WM 6,5 is no longer supported by new apps.
I hope, WP7 will start to live, will get better, and more user-friendly with better Apps support, downloadable directly from the internet site.
My biggest fear, is that what happened to WM, will happen to our main computer, in Windows 8

XxAndrexX said:
hungry81 is right in what he's saying.
If you make a new OS, its all about to add new stuff, and update the old stuff, but without quitting anything!!!!
Like windows did, take a look at it, in Win7 we actually have DOS, and the very old win95 Theme, with a very good backward compatibility.
Thats a good job, and I was hoping that microsoft would go on with this positive actitude in mobile devices.
But no, they quit almost everything, everything that made WM so great and different from any other dumbass users OS like Iphone and Blackberry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what happens to companies that make products that have all these wonderful features that nerds/geeks/techies love but no one else does?
I guess it is to be expected on a geek website that many members are upset with Windows Mobile going from a toolbox to a box of crayons, but somewhere along the way you should be forward-thinking enough to see it had to be done.
When it all boils down to it, in general iOS is better than all the other mobile OSes. Not because it can be more or do more, but because it is the most popular. Imagine if iOS came on several different handsets. So it is not for every specific person but in general it is well suited for most people.
Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'. Microsoft moved on, and I think everyone else should. Some people come into the Windows Mobile forum on a daily basis only intent on bashing the system. Microsoft wants Windows Phone to be the next iOS, not the next Android. Restrictions down to the number of physical buttons, no intended removable storage, and Zune dependent.
And you know the writing is on the wall for Android. What happens when more and more new devices come out with locked bootloaders? What happens when Google starts to tighten up the controls in the system? Business is about being a copycat. 10% innovation, 90% follow the leader.

nicksti said:
You know what happens to companies that make products that have all these wonderful features that nerds/geeks/techies love but no one else does?
I guess it is to be expected on a geek website that many members are upset with Windows Mobile going from a toolbox to a box of crayons, but somewhere along the way you should be forward-thinking enough to see it had to be done.
When it all boils down to it, in general iOS is better than all the other mobile OSes. Not because it can be more or do more, but because it is the most popular. Imagine if iOS came on several different handsets. So it is not for every specific person but in general it is well suited for most people.
Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'. Microsoft moved on, and I think everyone else should. Some people come into the Windows Mobile forum on a daily basis only intent on bashing the system. Microsoft wants Windows Phone to be the next iOS, not the next Android. Restrictions down to the number of physical buttons, no intended removable storage, and Zune dependent.
And you know the writing is on the wall for Android. What happens when more and more new devices come out with locked bootloaders? What happens when Google starts to tighten up the controls in the system? Business is about being a copycat. 10% innovation, 90% follow the leader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey man you got me wrong. Read accurately.
Microsoft HAD to move to that "innovating" platform, but without quitting the old one.
giving some kind of connection to the old windows mobile options.
So everyone would be happy, the new bunch of stupid IOS-cloned users, and the old freaky nerds
but I'm shure, its for some anti-piracy reason...

One of the reasons why this WP7 is not selling so well
Is it is limited in many areas.

another thing that I didn't mention, is that everyone is saying that WP7 is so easy to use.
I don't like that interface.
I'll tell you why.
I updated from WM6.1 to WM6.5 and I must say, I hated that start menu so much that I went back to WM6.1
Ok, perhaps it's fingerfriendly, for some unsensible fingers.
but I had a hard and frustrating time, finding my apps and setups.
That's because there is no folder rule, something that made so popular windows OS
Same problem has Iphone and Android, and finally WP7.
It may be easy to use if yo have less than 10 apps, but imagine having 30 apps and scrolling like a fool to find your app, that's mixed with the other phone icons.
I'm not an Apps fan, and I always try to have less apps than possible.
But I like it organized, with some folder-gerachy.
Android its scary, its desktop is full of apps icons one time I was 5 minutes searching for the Cam without finding anything. so I let it.
I know everyone is thinking the same, and I don't know why there's people who say that WP7 is cool and the new wave of mobile-OS are the future.
Maybe they have to give a sense to their spent money, or to the fact, that possibly there will be no go back to previous cool features and improvements of WM6.1

doministry said:
One of the reasons why this WP7 is not selling so well
Is it is limited in many areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think so, I think the reason why maybe its not selling so well is simply because many people are afraid to switch to their trusted Android or Iphone platform to something which is relativly new. But trust me, once they Windows Phone 7 Interface they will never go back.. I have never owned one Iphone or Android phone, but all my friends have them and they all borrow it to me for weeks because I am more tech saavy than them and I load usefull apps for them , so I pretty much know and have tested Iphone and Android at length.. but WP7 is nothing like that..
All my friends who borrowed me their Android and Iphones before now see my WP7 and the smoothness in WP7 and they all just want to instantly switch.. One just need to see it for more than 20 mins in a showroom and actually use the device for a week to see how good WP7 is compared to WM6.5, Iphone or Android.

argentocruz said:
.. Blows them away!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My WP totally blows all my Iphone and Android users.. they are like 'WTF!!?? This is so nice.:

Lol at this thread... OP, you're entirely right, and it is a wonderful OS. It can only improve from here.
And at the usual people I won't even call by name... Go get some sun on your skins.

The King has no clothes on, http://tinyurl.com/687omad
I sold my WP7 for £300 poor poor beta OS, dual booting my HD2, WM6.5 and Android Gingerbread best of both worlds.

rhory said:
I sold my WP7 for £300
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man, you are a lucky guy........or have you LOST 300????

XxAndrexX said:
another thing that I didn't mention, is that everyone is saying that WP7 is so easy to use.
I don't like that interface.
I'll tell you why.
I updated from WM6.1 to WM6.5 and I must say, I hated that start menu so much that I went back to WM6.1
Ok, perhaps it's fingerfriendly, for some unsensible fingers.
but I had a hard and frustrating time, finding my apps and setups.
That's because there is no folder rule, something that made so popular windows OS
Same problem has Iphone and Android, and finally WP7.
It may be easy to use if yo have less than 10 apps, but imagine having 30 apps and scrolling like a fool to find your app, that's mixed with the other phone icons.
I'm not an Apps fan, and I always try to have less apps than possible.
But I like it organized, with some folder-gerachy.
Android its scary, its desktop is full of apps icons one time I was 5 minutes searching for the Cam without finding anything. so I let it.
I know everyone is thinking the same, and I don't know why there's people who say that WP7 is cool and the new wave of mobile-OS are the future.
Maybe they have to give a sense to their spent money, or to the fact, that possibly there will be no go back to previous cool features and improvements of WM6.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Android supports folders.

Purple11 said:
I dont think so, I think the reason why maybe its not selling so well is simply because many people are afraid to switch to their trusted Android or Iphone platform to something which is relativly new. But trust me, once they Windows Phone 7 Interface they will never go back.. I have never owned one Iphone or Android phone, but all my friends have them and they all borrow it to me for weeks because I am more tech saavy than them and I load usefull apps for them , so I pretty much know and have tested Iphone and Android at length.. but WP7 is nothing like that..
All my friends who borrowed me their Android and Iphones before now see my WP7 and the smoothness in WP7 and they all just want to instantly switch.. One just need to see it for more than 20 mins in a showroom and actually use the device for a week to see how good WP7 is compared to WM6.5, Iphone or Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well definitely there will be many users loving WP7 look and feel.
For me it was opposite - I fell in love once I unboxed it but after 3 months I was having enough of limitations plus honestly UI of WP7 is dead boring after 3 months, some tiles are so horribly unappealing. It seems sometimes like a sketch not finished UI.
But this is taste and individual feeling. Many users will catch it. People I know were not appealed at all. So it's very individual.
And I have no idea in what sense WP7 is "so good" compared to Android or iOS.
I didn't find any real reason.

doministry said:
Well definitely there will be many users loving WP7 look and feel.
For me it was opposite - I fell in love once I unboxed it but after 3 months I was having enough of limitations plus honestly UI of WP7 is dead boring after 3 months, some tiles are so horribly unappealing. It seems sometimes like a sketch not finished UI.
But this is taste and individual feeling. Many users will catch it. People I know were not appealed at all. So it's very individual.
And I have no idea in what sense WP7 is "so good" compared to Android or iOS.
I didn't find any real reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is little if any innovation in WP7. People Hub as already done in TouchWiz. All of the Social integration is pretty much same ole same ole. Apple already had GameCenter. Apple has iPod (i.e. Zune) and you could get All-You-Can-Eat music from services like Rhapsody on other platforms.
Office isn't innovative because ThinkFree and other apps have comparable functionality and integration in other platforms. Also, Office has been in Windows Mobile since 2002 or so... The functionality of Outlook/Office going from WM to WP7 has actually been downgraded quite a lot. For example, WP7 doesn't support Exchange Tasks and the calendar is, IMO, worse...
Nothing great about Push Notifications which are worse and more volatile than any other platform that offers them.
Tiles and Live Tiles are just Widgets with a different look and feel.
Microsoft didn't really innovate any much moving from WM to WP7, and the base OS is still Windows CE. They used Silverlight as a way to decouple the UX from the base OS, but they released it before it was finished (hence why there are 1.5k APIs keeping apps off the platform coming with Mango).
How well WP7 does depends solely on how Android and iOS develop going into the future.
Nokia will help MS but Google has way more manufacturers and Apple will continue to do well building their own handset. Also, with Nokia somewhat abandoning Symbian a lot of their users will jump to Android because WP7 does not have functionality on par with BB/WM/Symbian to allow them to migrade decently form Symbian to WP7. Nokia cannot do that without reworking a bit of the OS and I doubt Microsoft will want them to diverge so far from the reference implementation.
I think in 2010 they lost bigtime because they didn't live up to the hype. The carriers still have as much control over WP7 as they do with Android, and their update system is still only on par with Android and much worse than iOS. In addition, the launch hardware is rather poor and with the i5 coming out soon after Mango, and Android Manufacturers pushing the button (not to mention Google making some pretty good changes in their OS latesly - free Voice/Video Chat in Google Talk?! We don't even have a WLM and it's not slated to even come with Mango!) it will be hard for them to persuade switches. In addition to that, the pitiful state of RTM WP7 has already made them a laughing stock on many tech blogs and among users. They should have waited, IMO.
People who have Android phones won't tell their friends to get WP7 devices because of Google Talk/Services. People with iOS devices will likely push that. People with Blackberries will recommend Blackberries because of BBM, etc. People with WP7 devices are generally on the fence and many are lamenting the purchase. The OS is so functionally thin, and even will still be compared to iOS/Android with Mango, that it's really hard to enjoy it. Android Manufacturers are already getting better with Updates (Samsung leading the pack, suprisingly), so that is already no longer a reason to go with WP7...
A good smartphone will not make you feel like you are hampered because you upgraded from a different OS, and a good smartphone will not force you to double fist two smartphones because it's lacking in so much functionality as to be unusable without a different device to fill in the gaps.
WM had usability issues, but it was a complete smartphone OS.
And BTW, it had nothing to do with it having a decade of development. Even from day one it was never possible to call WM functionally thin compared to anything on the market (Symbian, Blackberry, Palm, etc.). The actual phones/devices running it was a different story.
And as a business user WP7 is practically useless. It isn't even worth consideration. I'd get a Blackberry or Symbian Anna device, instead...

What do you think of WP7

What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?

GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please not another thread like that. -_-

Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?

GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you will regret it , if you still want these features :
1- Bluetooth file transfer
2- ability to make folder
3 - icon view
4- rooting device
5- backing up ROM
6- backing up apps
7- much much more free apps and games
8- if you google around , you find paid apps for free
9- widgets
and alot more , but these are the most important features that are missing in WP7
If you think I helped , please hit thanks

...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard

arturobandini said:
Yes, it will only create some troubles....
Most people here are not ready to criticize or judge WP7 honestly anyway. So what do you expect?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who said? Most sane WP7 users can acknowledge its not perfect but why is it this forum is filled mainly with threads criticizing WP7, mostly from people who dont use it? If they dont like it, why not post in forums of the OS they do like?
Thats the problem, this thread will be filled with posts by the usual haters spouting the same BS. By this time, 1 year later, shouldnt they have moved on to the platform that suits them? Yet any good point of WP7 is shouted down and discarded. You say people here arent ready to judge WP7 honestly, the haters are just as guilty of not being able to be honest and admit any positive in WP7.
---------- Post added at 04:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ----------
arturobandini said:
...and decent storage (i mean more than 8 or 16Gb)
...and ability to read DivX|Avi movies (without wasting your time converting them )
...and USB mass storage
...and ability to download files from the IE browser
...and ability to select and send PDF files
...or ability to edit forwarded emails
...or if ever you like the Swype keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rest my case.

Why are people keep comparing a 5+ yr old OS to a 1 yr OS is beyond me. We all know WP still have some growing to do. The rate it's growing is alot faster than we all anticipated.

I didn't mean to start any trouble... I really am just curious. I read a lot on engaget of windows 7 phones being efficient. My main question is what I want to do. I guess I'll stick to android and get the prime, and in 2 years rethink my options.

nevermind................

GManLynx said:
What do you guys think that have gone from android to WP7 think of the transistion? Do you regret it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agree with dkp1977...What an another troll-bait thread.
LOL,please close this thread man....there are dozens of similar thread out there.

lol..."troll bait"
Listen, I'm a former Windows Mobile user who can shed some light. When my HTC Tilt got long in the tooth, I spent some time on borrowed Android devices. My theory was that the new Windows Phone 7 would be too locked down, too much like the iPhone, and that I'd be moving to Android instead. I loved to tinker and try to get as much out of my Windows Mobile device as possible, so figured I'd want something more powerful.
I mostly tinkered on an HTC Aria, which probably isn't a great comparison being a budget Android device, but I was modestly impressed. It honestly felt somewhat like an upgraded Windows Mobile device. Flexible, lots of options, etc.
When I was finally ready to upgrade, my wife was pregnant and I had a second job. I found myself without time to flash ROMs to my Windows Mobile device, and so I'd be stuck on a ROM I was dissatisfied with for weeks before having time to sit down and flash another one. When things didn't work on my Windows Mobile device, I would get frustrated and give up. I had stopped surfing, tinkering, installing, customizing, flashing...in other words, I started to use my HTC Tilt as a phone only, and maybe for light text messaging.
As such, I decided on a WP7 instead of Android. Boy oh boy oh boy do I NOT regret that decision. I have never ONCE looked back, and pity the fella who is still on his HTC Aria that I had borrowed. I have a dozen different hotmail accounts (because they allow custom domains and I run some businesses) and an exchange account, and they work flawlessly. The integration of contacts, calendar, messaging, mail...it's beyond helpful. I don't have to start a Facebook app, a search app, a navigation app. I can just talk to my phone to perform a search of any kind, and the browsing experience is top-notch. Facebook is right there, "merging" duplicate contacts is a joy, and I've found just about every app I think I'd ever need (granted, I moved from Windows Mobile, so it's not like I'm missing an app I ever had on another device).
Bottom line for me: if I were still a tinkerer, I may have gone with Android and would recommend Android to tinkerers (although you can definitely tinker with a WP7, if you wanted to). However, if you find yourself too busy for tinkering or just want more out of life than staring at a 4" screen and making an OS look and work the way you want, get the Windows Phone. If you want a robust smartphone that just works well, performs so many tasks natively that you really don't care about your app count, doesn't even need customizing because it looks great and performs well, get a Windows Phone.
Not only have I not looked back, but I have converted fully 5 non-techie people to Windows Phone with a sixth (the Aria fella) well on the way!
PS: My mom, unfortunately, snagged an Android device (not sure the name, but it's T-Mobile 4"-ish Samsung device) because the salesperson told her that "Android has millions of apps and Windows Phone has hardly any, and apps are what matter." I could wring that little egghead's neck, because now I'm constantly getting calls from my Mom asking how to do things on her phone, and telling me she "hates this thing" and is "confused."

I just don't know why people who genuinely hate the OS continue to come to this section... I went from WinMo, to Android, used an iPhone for a while as well, and can tell you that WinPhone is the best there is, especially at its young age. These people who want to own a phone to have to flash it weekly, or daily, can keep their Androids.

Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.

Thanks your guy's insight. and you can tell i'm not a troll due to the fact if you look at my other topics started, I'm switching to verizon soon.
On the side note, for you wp7 people, do you guys go here for all your needs? like when I had an iphone i went to blah blah site, android is xda.
And I do flash A LOT. I almost wnat to break the habit. I liked cydia back on the iphone, I want the OS to be perfect, but if the apps arent, I want to fix that (thats what jailbreakign did me for the iphone)
I guess the main problem with windows 7 phones for me right now are:
No LTE? why not. If I'm going to Verizon shouldn't I get a LTE phone?
Pros:
I feel that it will give me "my life back". I'm not addicted to flashing phones, but it definately sucks that I probably send 30 mintes - hour a day scanning these forums about stuff and specs baout the "newest" phone. I see that wp7 phones aren't realized every 3 months, causing you not to regret your purchase.
Another question I have for the people who follow WP7 phones is, when are they going to release a new one for Verizon? Or ATT. But I think we are going to switch to Verizon.

mdcykkk9 said:
Windows phone 7.5 is great phone os. Is a nice looking os with few great built in features but is not a smartphone. I am using lg otimus 7 and i haven't any problems. Very solid and stable... And i love it... But i find my self using my 7inch Android tablet instead of my phone all the time. If someone wants a phone that can check emails and listen music wp7 is great. But if you want a mobile Internet device that can make phone calls wp7 is not an option.
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Click to collapse
What do you mean by making phone calls and browse the internet? Are you saying the browse cause it doesn't have 4g?
And phone calls: why is that?

All I can say is I moved from WinMo-Android-WP7-Android.
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
I am one of those who wanted to use MS latest platform but discovered it's really not for me. Because even if the concept is really good and different, it's very limiting.
I wait to make my final judgement once I upgrade to Mango.
I think WP7 is perfect entry level OS, for people who are not crazy about the most advanced features. For less "business" or "pro" users it's perfect. It's for youngsters and people who don't need much but like reliability and simplicity.
Otherwise stay with Android because it's ahead in every regard.
So ask yourself why do you want to switch and what you expect from your future device.

@doministry: Moved to Android, yet still in the windows phone forums? Interesting.
I love these threads, though. They all end up the same in the end.
What most of us simpletons here, who are unable to fathom the depths of the advanced, Skynet-like Android, like about Windows Phone is that it's something new, something fresh. It's not the same ol' same ol' we've been accustom to from iphone and Android. Not that either of those two are bad. Actually, the opposite.
But, there's not really anything new there per se. Microsoft decided to go against the "Tried and True" and do something different. We will see in the long run if this pays off. But, every now and again, something comes along and changes our perceptions on what should be, the status quo as it were.
You ask about coming here for all your info. Well, come here in addition to going elsewhere. The problem here is that most are nerds and geeks thus they dig into things that most others wouldn't. Not many people care if you can reroute power from your phone to the dilithium crystals, and bleed some of that power out through the main deflector array. See? Nerd.
But, here at xda, if your phone doesn't do that then it's a failure. Let me clarify that. It's a failure to the Android fans whose phones are the best thing since Bell called Watson from the next room. There are actually quite a few of us that appreciate what Windows Phone has to offer, how far it's come, and how far it can potentially go.
Stick around for awhile though and you will find those who are quite informative and constructive. But, you'll also find those who come into every thread like this to tell you how much they dislike/hate/loathe/want to vomit on windows phone. Strangely, like moths to a flame, however, they continue to be drawn here. Which leaves me confused and makes me cry inside.

I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
You will read alot of bull**** here about Android by WP7 maniacs btw.
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Click to collapse
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....

morpheuszg said:
I am getting sick of that android fanboyism. I just want that forum section android free but no, in nearly every thread there are some people who have an android device and start to post negative things about WP7.
To the android using guys: In this section there are people who DON'T like android or other OS's for a reason!! So why the hell do you have the need to post your biased crap in here? I really don't understand this. Why don't you accept that some people like me like WP7? WHY???
The other way round is even worse, you may notice....
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Click to collapse
In Android thread I am visiting there are tons of people who don't like it and it's not a problem for anyone really.
The other way round is not worse.
The scheme is like this:
WP7 lovers: "if you want to endlessly hack your phone and accept these lags, use Android"
WP7 critics: "we still miss this and that...."
What is really hard to understand for some is that some people use both platforms on regular basis and can really COMPARE them head to head. And this is the question here, COMPARISON. Times has changed, users are not devoted to one thing in their life anymore and are not treating their choices like a new religion. WP7 is still starting and appeared in a world of huge COMPETITION. If you don't know, the competition and comparisons makes things better, not the closed circle of believers. And that's why MS opened these polls where you vote for the feature you'd love to see.
Some people here are more MS than the company itself.

Hi GManLynx,
In my opinion Wyn6 and Dom both have valid points to make, Dom has voiced the fact that although WP7 is very capable as a daily driver (and it is my preferred O/S) it does seem to be limited for those of us that need specialised apps/functionality to be satisfied with our chosen platform. In the same light Wyn6 has it spot on that these forums do tend to be very geek based and arguments about granular functionality do get out of hand and turn the thread away from its original point, this thread will go that way in the end i promise...............keep an eye on it, its really quite amusing.
Anyway here is my penneth worth:
I have originally come from 6.5 where the flashing was both a delight and at the same time a chore, i then found myself being drawn to Android for the exact same reasoning and that was that i liked to play with and customise my phone to my liking. The hardware however at the time did not do it for me though and i found (as most people now realise) that with Android the hardware is the key for a great phone experience. This is now possible with all of the great droid handsets and the the apps available make the customisation side an absolute pleasure, although decent application coding is still an issue from time to time along with the possibility that the performance of any custom ROM you choose is entirely dependant on the trial and error application addition basis that 6.5 required. In my opinion this will always be the case with an open source platform.
Now with WP7 you get less chance to customise (although it is entirely possible) but the O/S is rather solid due to the fact that it is closed and that the apps that are released have been vetted so as not to afftect the functionality of the phone too much. This is also a plus point when it comes to the hardware that is required as you dont need the leading edge of available hardware to run the buttery smooth O/S. Improvements from Mango have made this even better in my opinion and have opened the door to better development opportunities and eventually better apps than are available at the moment, however i do stress the word eventually. WP7 is still very young and MS have some great things in the pipe that should make the O/S differ greatly from others......but again this will take time.
I could easily recommend droid or WP7 for you and i think you would be pleased, at the end of the day you will as Dom said have to decide what level of functionality vs customisation that you would prefer and go with that one. (this is easily done as all phone carriers now offer the 30 day cool down period, so you can evaluate both properly)
Try everything you can think of to aide your decision but most importantly have fun deciding, i know i did
Kind regards,
Creamy

what is the point of smoothness when you don't have function?

Defenders of WP7 always emphasis on smoothness without fail, it's like the only point WP7 fan boys can come up with.
But what is the point of smoothness when your phone don't have some of the basic and necessary functions Android have.

well if you dont want smoothness and fast responses..
Just customization and hoards of functionalities you are welcome to use the Windows 6.5

Indeed WP7 doesn't have some basic functionalities, but is easy to use with fast response as you mentioned. Every fanboy of any brand tries to overdraw. Don't start a flame war

shamreez said:
Just customization and hoards of functionalities you are welcome to use the Windows 6.5
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Fail, why would I want to use Windows Mobile 6.5 when I have Android 4.0?

Mark_QS said:
Indeed WP7 doesn't have some basic functionalities, but is easy to use with fast response as you mentioned. Every fanboy of any brand tries to overdraw. Don't start a flame war
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Click to collapse
Not trying to start a war, I am trying to understand why all the emphasis of smoothness at the expense of functionality in WP7?

FinancialWar said:
Fail, why would I want to use Windows Mobile 6.5 when I have Android 4.0?
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Click to collapse
Double fail why do you want to go to a new OS called Android when there is already windows 6.5 which can do everything an android can

FinancialWar said:
Defenders of WP7 always emphasis on smoothness without fail, it's like the only point WP7 fan boys can come up with.
But what is the point of smoothness when your phone don't have some of the basic and necessary functions Android have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The big question is, does one really "need" those functions and is willing to compensate for it by using a less coherent system, apps that can crash your phone, random reboots, can leak your personal belongings, and all other things.
The answer for some people is yes --> android. For some people its no --> windows phone. I for example care about design and thats the no.1 reason why I dont like android, because it does not have a design and looks too childish/nerdo for my taste. I trade less but usefull features for some eye candy any day, because I use my phone everyday so I stare at the menu's a whole lot in the years I use my phone. And what am I truely missing? Just Skype... And this will be even integrated into the OS. And a notification system, I bet this will come in Apollo. Like last year we will probably get a beta in a few months, so I am very satisfied, because the beta's were actually perfectly suitable for daily use.
At least I dont have to worry about random reboots and dont have to witness the laggy scrolling trough the marketplace like my friends with the GS2... The whole response/bounce and kinetic scrolling of WP7 is far more natural than android. Sure they have more useless apps and they have skype and some games, but I never play games. And for customizations, its android it remains unpleasant to look at.
Other than that it is a matter of personal preferences, a friend told me android has "no bugs". Its like yeah whatever, people are entitled to their opinions and thats why we all have something to chose from which suits our needs.
You android, we WP, is android perfect? No, far from it. Is WP perfect? No far from it. However what is the most perfect choice for you is what matters and you made yours. I made mine, and Im happy and dont have to post in an android forum why their phones all have cheap looking menu's. Every time I touch my phone its a joy to use, no frustrations, now annoyances.

I'm not one to shy away from a good debate, but please keep it respectful here. Threads comparing Android and WP7 usually degenerate fairly quickly, so I just wanted to remind everyone not to turn this discussion against someone personally.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the way you present it can make a huge difference in how others perceive it.
edit: As for the question though, aesthetics are very important to a lot of people. The occasional stuttering of Android can almost be painful to someone if they're not accustomed to it, yet others may be able to get used to it quickly and are able to over look it for everything else the OS provides. IMHO Android still has a ways to go before it's intuitive and user friendly enough to be adopted by a lot of people in the market for smartphones, plus a lot of people don't have the time that's needed to learn how to use it efficiently. It seems like Microsoft is trying to find the middle ground between the aesthetics of iOS and the versatility of Android & Win mobile.

FinancialWar said:
Defenders of WP7 always emphasis on smoothness without fail, it's like the only point WP7 fan boys can come up with.
But what is the point of smoothness when your phone don't have some of the basic and necessary functions Android have.
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Click to collapse
It depends on how basic and necessary those functions are to you.
For example:
1) bluetooth file sharing isn't a necessary function to me, i might have used it twice in a year when i was on Android;
2) being able to play every kind of unconverted video format isn't important to me because i hardly ever watch movies on the go, i've had the GS2 for 5 months and i might have done that once, just to give it a try;
3) being able to play FLAC music files on my phone is something i don't care about because a real audiophile would never use the phone as a main music player because of the cheap DACs used by OEMs; even lossy mp3 files are a waste on some of those if you have good ears.
4) i don't give a damn about flash, it's mostly used for ads and other gimmicks rather for anything useful over the net; i know some may care (not that i do) about streaming sites/services but most of those generally have their app.
5) i don't really need usb mass storage support because i don't even use my phone for music right now, i only use it for browsing, running apps and viewing/editing documents.
6) i don't really need a file browser because i find more convenient to look for specific kinds of files in their specific hub: it's just tidier and faster to me.
Anyway these are just few examples, would you point me to some things that you find basic and necessary and WP7 doesn't do? Maybe you should talk in a more specific way, because like i said, the concept of "basic and necessary" is too subjective and generic imho.
The only things i don't really like about WP7 is the lack of a decent built in navigation app and real multitasking, because some apps don't really support dehydratation that well and don't take you exactly where you were at.
Also, it's not all about smoothness, but also efficient integration of the few apps i really use daily and deem consider important, overall consistency in the look and feel of the OS, reliability and last but not least uniformity of the software throughout the platform, regardless the price of the device you choose to buy. Most people think that WP7 is form over function, i used to think the same way, but after you get into it imho you realize that it's pretty functional in its own way.
Tell me what does bother you the most about the OS, i'm open to discussion, i've owned Android devices for a great while so i understand how it baffles you to see people being happy about a mobile OS which apparently is too limited compared to Android. Hopefully nobody will get in here and turn this thing into the usual war...

vnvman:
you see how all of your arguments are "I don't need it, therefore it justifies why WP7 don't have it". No, you're not the only mobile user in the world.
That's like me saying my Toyota is just as good as the Ferrari because I don't need to drive above 110km/h.

FinancialWar said:
vnvman:
you see how all of your arguments are "I don't need it, therefore it justifies why WP7 don't have it". No, you're not the only mobile user in the world.
That's like me saying my Toyota is just as good as the Ferrari because I don't need to drive above 110km/h.
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Click to collapse
And neither are you. You're coming into this section posting with a superior, higher than thou attitude and implying that just because YOU need these features, Windows Phone lacks "function." You aren't the only user in the world, and the fact is, that most people who purchase an Android device, never even change their launcher, let alone use most of the "functionality" you're claiming is so important. If it doesn't work for you, then stay in the Android section, and post wonderful topics over there. I don't get why some of you get your daily satisfaction by coming in here in posting nonsense like this. As vnvman said, we don't need it, so the phone is perfect for us. If you need it, then don't purchase the device. I prefer being able to effortlessly use the "functionality" I do have, than to have to modify my phone to have a chance of using "new" features. A lot of Android devices aren't even on Gingerbread yet, and will probably never get ICS, so this functionality argument stops there for them.

Financial,
I find the thing we lack the most is empathy. Many responses you already receive sum it up. But let me ask you the reverse question:
What is the point of functionality without stability?
Let us take a step back from this smoothness argument and go back to another thing that has plagued Android - Battery life. What is the point of using multicore, highspeed CPUs in order to achieve something that less horsepowered phones easily achieve at the expense of price and battery life?
Also your idea of necessary functions and my I idea may be very different. What is Windows Phone missing that you deem basic?

Once upon a time, XDA was a place to come to and learn and teach, now, it's a place where people preach their phone religion...even if it's just to start a bunch of nonsense... I have Android and WP, is it really that boring in the Android forums that a person would start THIS thread in THIS section....? I'm going to sit back and watch the same ol' from the same ol'....
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Dr.8820 said:
Once upon a time, XDA was a place to come to and learn and teach, now, it's a place where people preach their phone religion...even if it's just to start a bunch of nonsense... I have Android and WP, is it really that boring in the Android forums that a person would start THIS thread in THIS section....? I'm going to sit back and watch the same ol' from the same ol'....
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Click to collapse
IDK, it seems like many Android users have some serious e-penis issue. Honestly I can't cope with that: when I was on Android I was never tired to express my criticism towards the platform, as I now do with WP7. Criticisms is very important: if the end user is always satisfied with what it has he will never get a better product.
This is what I do:
1)I choose a platform, see what I like and what I don't.
2)If something I don't like stays there for a too long time I jump ship.
3)Repeat.
IDK, maybe I'm weird.

What I don't understand about all these Android users posting about WP7 being 'useless' is that they seem to have forgotten one MAJOR point:
The vast majority of people buying smartphones don't have a blind clue about what Android can really do if they push it. They get the phone, set up facebook, download a few useless apps and never do anything more.
The problem is that Windows Phone just isn't designed for the sort of people who frequent XDA Devs.
Windows Phone is designed for the average user - someone who doesn't have a clue what phone they want, and who'll buy whatever the salesman tells them to. That is currently the iPhone and Android, and people are fast realising that those 2 platforms aren't all that brilliant for people who don't know what to do with them.
Windows Phone is there to take care of those customers - it offers the simplest, fastest interface, with the majority of features most people use and no unnecessary frills. That is exactly the point of Metro, and something that people in this community seem to forget.
Fair enough if you want something that can do more than my laptop and don't care that the battery only lasts 6 hours as a result. You can have that - go an buy an Android.
I want a phone that works first time, every time I pick it up. That means I can pick it up, do or get what I want or need, put it down, and get on with my life. And that's what most people want, too, and that's what Windows Phone offers.
Cue a bunch of Android developers who still don't have a clue what the target market for Windows Phone is flaming the hell out of me.

There's a nice video about the different mobile strategies of Google vs Apple / Microsoft here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Nfgs4EUeTlk#t=129s
In summary:
Apple / Microsoft already have a desktop OS, so can offer mobile devices that are purpose-built appliances.
Google does not have a separate desktop OS. Therefore, Android is designed to be a more general computing platform.
These are different approaches as many of the people above have explained

That's like me saying my Toyota is just as good as the Ferrari because I don't need to drive above 110km/h.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your Toyota is better. It will get you to work everyday for a low cost and won't get stopped along the way because it ran out of gas (aka battery) when your trying to get to your work. It also won't scrape over pot holes and speedbumps. Sure the Ferrari seems flashy and will pick up all the chicks, but in the end you will end up with a broken, dead car that you constantly have to fill up and fix. Meanwhile your toyota with it's single cam will keep on plugging at a decent speed and be reliable every time you start it up till you bring it home.

I like stability, ease of use, aesthetics, an ecosystem, and speed.
You want to hack your phone endlessly to make it almost as smooth, almost as user friendly, slap on a mediocre launcher to make it not an aesthetic nightmare, download apps to emulate some type of ecosystem, and never gain the stability.
That's how I see it broken down. Android gets modified relentlessly to attain what we already have. All we really lack is the games.
E; and how about those updates?

I can see and understand both sides, to me personally WM kicks WP as far as being able to to simple, logical and common stuff vs WP but WP doesn't lock up on you and the battery life seems to be better. But if Windows Phone wants to compete and reallistically wants to be number 3 by 2014 or whatever they are perdicting, they need to wise up and give us back some kind of functionallty; for instance why is it so freaking hard to be able to Bluetooth some one a freaking file when that technology has been around for ages? A cricket phone can do that, why no WP? Microsoft up when they took WM away from us loyal users and basically gave us something that seems rushed and incomplete.

sinister1 said:
I can see and understand both sides, to me personally WM kicks WP as far as being able to to simple, logical and common stuff vs WP but WP doesn't lock up on you and the battery life seems to be better. But if Windows Phone wants to compete and reallistically wants to be number 3 by 2014 or whatever they are perdicting, they need to wise up and give us back some kind of functionallty; for instance why is it so freaking hard to be able to Bluetooth some one a freaking file when that technology has been around for ages? A cricket phone can do that, why no WP? Microsoft up when they took WM away from us loyal users and basically gave us something that seems rushed and incomplete.
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Click to collapse
I love when those who flame WP7 mention Bluetooth transfer as a key feature. I haven't been to 2005 recently.