Develop Bugs

Moderation in the Dream forums...

What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.

I am not active in the Dream forum, but I will add my thoughts here.
Certain sections of XDA's forums are subject to stricter moderation then others due to the sheer volume of active members in them. For example, the Raphael has seen a US release on all three nationwide carriers, whereas the prior models only saw release on one carrier. This led to more people buying the Raphael, and a large influx of members in the related forums. Due to that influx, we moderators needed to step up our monitoring of those forums in order to keeping them as clean and concise as possible.
This same example applies to the Dream due to it being the first Android phone released.
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.

So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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NotATreoFan said:
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.
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Just thought I would add my two cents in here ( like anyone cares ) because I too have been irritated once or twice by over zealous moderation. Once by a moderator from the Dream forum who came over to the Kaiser forum to delete a whole conversation, because he " thought " we were getting too heated in our debate over M$ supposed actions . There was no flamebaiting, He just thought.
And several times by threads ( not mine ) that were closed without warning or stated reason. I know this is a huge site with a lot of heavy traffic and the Mods are " overworked and under paid " . I also realize that Mods are from around the world, and Moderation style is subject to differing personalities, social and interpersonal customs from different countries. But common courtesy is universal. While many people don't deserve it, please take the time to include a note on why, the thread requires moderation. If you don't have the time , then maybe you should pass the job on to someone who can take the time.
Also in my 1 1/2 years on this site, ( six mo lurking and 1 yr member ) I have PM'd three mods, asking them to please explain their actions in moderating a thread I was posting in, and in all three cases, received nothing, not even an acknowledgement.
This is not a criticism, just my two cents, should someone read this. I have my favorite mods, (natf is one ) Dave and Josh are excellent in the Kaiser forums, mostly because they adhere to the basic tenet, " Moderation in Moderation. "

mikechannon said:
I realise you are being modest there, and the truth is we do care what members think and voicing concern in a calm fashion is appreciated and this kind of feedback is what moderates the Moderators. This is what makes us a community and avoids an "us and them" situation developing.
I don't have anything of value to add to NotATreoFan's comments which match my own feelings on the matter and IMHO reflect the kind of balance we need between being tolerant, courteous and yet maintaining a degree of organisation.
Mike
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Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.

denco7 said:
Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.
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AND they are simply men and women They could make mistakes, they act differently in the same situation. Suggestions and opinions are always welcome!

i reckon there should be a new button next to the report post button that serves as an appeal button if someone thinks that a tread has been closed for no reason the the button should allow for appeal. a box is filled n explaining the thread and why there was no reason to delete it this is then pmd to the closer of the thread then negotaiations will start

Please do not take my original post too harshly. I do appreciate the mods here on XDA-developers and think that they do a great job. But at the same time when the mods get a little over zealous this seemed the best way to bring up my protest. (I could not PM the moderator in question because I do not know who was closing the threads.)
So thanks again for making this a great place to come back to over the years and keep up the good work.

JanetPanic said:
What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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If you ask me there aren't enough locked threads in the dream section. There are over 80 different threads for the new haykuro build there, 80!!! Probably more because i stopped counting at page 20. I also might add that the main haykuro thread has over 6000 posts and counting. The dream section is out of control and needs serious moderator intervention. One moderator simply cannot do all this himself. I know the dream mod, or at least the only active mod there that i can see and he is excellent at not only helping people but moderating in general. Let a thread be self governed? That's a very scary though!!! I am a moderator at another site and i can say it is not a moderators job to be a friend, be respectful or give you an explaination as to why he or she did what they did. Yes i do give an explaination and most mods on here do as well but they are here to maintain the rules of the forum and the upkeep of the forum in general. If threads were locked its more than likely because you or others got off topic, double posted or started a new thread when another about the exact same thing already existed. Case in point, there is a section for members to post questions to mods about anything already and you opened a new thread on the subject.

Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.

knight4linux said:
Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.
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Haha yeah the sticky at the top about the rules says a little over 23,000 views. The hacking thread has been viewed over 300,000 times, go figure. I probably report 15 posts a day to try and help but your right its outta control.

Hello Friends,
Well i have seen these site and i am quite surprise here that though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.As i am not a active member but ya i will add my though if any and will discuss So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason. Thanx

can someone please unlock this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=429808&page=22

It is not that rules and regulations are not in place in this site. They are posted all over the place. In fact, if you look at my sig, I have them there as a hyperlink (many other members do the same). Why do threads and posts get locked, moved, or otherwise deleted left and right? It is because lots of users (particularly new ones but seasoned users also) do not read these rules. They do not know that they should search before posting or opening new threads; they do not know that there are sections to ask questions that are not relevant to the section they posted at; they do not know that profanity shouldn't be used around here due to a large young crowd; they do not know that flaming (particularly for no apparent reason) is strictly prohibited....
Moderators have little time to be messing around with people who simply do not understand that there are rules that must be followed (or read for that matter). Hence, they close the threads with no previous notice and at times, leave no excuse behind. They don't do it out of the content of their hearts, and they are definitely not watching over every single thread at all times. If you see a thread being closed, it is normally due to someone complaining about it, and more often than not, mods will analyze the trend of the thread and if necessary either warn users to stop, or just flat out close it (normally they warn unless the thread itself is breaking the rules... think of posting warez for instance).
I have yet to see abuse of power by a mod in this forum. And I am pretty sure that if there happens to be a mod that does abuse his/her God-given powers.... let's just say that they will be judged by a higher power
My 2 cents!

Although some moderators try and go out of their way to leave a message as to why they lock a thread, that is not their job. Our job is to make sure people are following the rules.
Here is a little scenario, i log on at night and jump over to the D&H section.... there i find 10 new threads asking questions.
A) I can delete the threads
B) I can close the threads by simply going through and checking every thread and then closing.
C) i can individually open each thread and leave a message for each person
D) i can wait for another moderator to do it
E) move the thread for them
Well i cant delete them or people will think their thread never got posted and just post it AGAIN. If you move peoples threads for them they think they can post anywhere and it will just be moved where it needs to go. I dont have time to open every thread and leave a message for every person everytime, and if i leave it for another moderator, it might not get done.
Really i am only left with checking all of the threads and closing them. if you have a question you can READ the rules, as it is your resonsibilty as a member, and find the answer. (Or of course you can pm a mod)
You guys have to remember that there are over 1,537,526 members on this site and around 66 mods and admin. We do our best to help you guys but we dont always have the time to write a personal letter for everyone of your and put it in you lunch box.

I agree (not that it matters). Mods have absolutely NO responsibility to post why they closed a thread...Why? Because they already are posted...in the rules up top. Its you, the new users that have the resposibility. That responsibility to read the rules before you post (RTFM). It even says at the bottom (of the rules) what will happen if they are not followed.
And by allowing multiple threads of the SAME simple questions (Especially in a phones development section) this completely ruins development and progress, not to mention this is a free and public forum. That means its hosted on servers, and these duplicate threads/posts start to add up.
Trust me. Frequent the forums for more than a few months and it'll start to wear on you too, almost as much as it does to the mods.

UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]

theslam08 said:
UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]
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That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.

neoobs said:
That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.
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Mhm, and you do what you can, I notice somethings being done by you, which is good that something is being done. I used to mod/administrate big places so I know what its like, its a pain when people cant search, or arent sure of where to post so they post anywhere (sometimes in the effort of 'just getting an answer').
This causes the clutter, especially when there are multiple 'different but very similar' type topics being created, and its tricky to know which to close and which not to close. Thats why I think maybe a separate forum 'might' be the best solution, because as of right now, bricks are happening pretty quickly and thats not good (no one to blame, just the anticipation again).
I appreciate the backing, hope 'something' can be done, its just really crowded right now (making the 'new' browsers get lost [causing the multiple similar topic issue], and your job harder).

One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.

Ryanmo5 said:
One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.
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Agreed 100%, it seems there are alot of stickies there, maybe redundant on some, but are necessary on others. There should be a way to make it distinguishable between information/guides, developments, and problems. They do need to be updated as well.
I agree, a forum might not be the best way because there might be 'lost' posts which would not work either (like the new magic thread that showed up, though I dont dissagree with that simply because the OP is correct, android is android, and the magic needs some help, maybe because we stole quite a bit from it too? lol. but still posting to 'get help' anywhere).
Is there a modification for vb that makes stickies different color than the regular topics? I never administrated vb only ipb and smf so I dont know. But that would be a big help there, then the new comers can instantly see which are informal.
Im trying to report, to help you so you dont need to spend as much time 'looking' as doing the task. Its not 'too' bad right now, when I first posted though omg it was disaster. Once the new rom comes out though....thennn its gonna be biig trouble again.
Update: I was looking at something...the first forum, named Dream. That I was actually looking at for the first time, it seems pretty useless really. A lot of the topics in there could definitely go into the development thread...OR that forum could get changed to something else and cleaned up. There arent many 'general' topics for the phone I dont think, whats general for the phone? What is the g1? Maybe but useless indeed. So maybe instead of MAKING a new forum, just change that one and clean it up. Make it a troubleshooting forum, or a tutorial section, or just updates, or something I dont know. But maybe just better use of it I think.

[Q] Why do you guys keep posting [Q]'s in development?

seriously, folks....
Did you not read any of the forum guidelines before you started posting? Did you not understand them? IF YOU AREN'T POSTING UP DEVELOPMENT MATERIAL (e.g a new ROM, a new kernel, a system hack, a new radio) STOP STARTING THREADS IN THERE.
the q and a forum is for questions.
and, if you are having an issue with a particular kernel, rom, radio, troll the thread concerning that particular item. chances are that someone else has had the problem, and that another person solved it. if it hasn't been solved, post in that thread, with specifics to your issue.
you do not need to start a thread. in fact, when you start threads that have to be moved, your leftovers have to be cleaned up behind you.
/rant
and no, i don't need some person (db, i'm looking at you) to come in here and say "blah blah blah you're just a wanna be mod", or some other non-helpful comment. the fact of the matter is that there is a place for everything. please keep it in its place. you're more likely to find your answer by searching first, and posting in the correct place. you will also find that you are not starting a load of silly flaming as people bicker and fight about stupid crap.

Wanna be mod.
Thanks.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

I agree with you. But why do you always have to be that guy who complains about eveyones posts. It gets kinda old also.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

If more developers came in here instead of developer wanna b's answering in such a way as to post boost, then we wouldn't have to...
I personally think the PRI question should be a sticky over there until resolved...but that would be too easy I guess?

nvm.............

r.mauldin said:
I agree with you. But why do you always have to be that guy who complains about eveyones posts. It gets kinda old also.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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why am i complaining? because why should i have to sift through 8 tons of crap because someone else can't read? the development forum is busy enough. if 15 threads weren't moved every day, you'd have to sift through page after page after page of complete nonsense just to find the actual things that belong in there.
sorry. i don't have the time to baby step someone through a complex process when they don't bother to read the simple things.

timothydonohue said:
why am i complaining? because why should i have to sift through 8 tons of crap because someone else can't read? the development forum is busy enough. if 15 threads weren't moved every day, you'd have to sift through page after page after page of complete nonsense just to find the actual things that belong in there.
sorry. i don't have the time to baby step someone through a complex process when they don't bother to read the simple things.
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I did say I agree with you. But you make yourself "that guy".

r.mauldin said:
I did say I agree with you. But you make yourself "that guy".
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But "that guy" isn't alone. Lately I've noticed 8+ of us that are "those guys" and growing.
A simple analogy would be comparing parking in the handicapped space at the mall, not worth the risk so you don't... on XDA there is no risk so people park their Q's in the handicapped space (dev) all day long. Neither scenario is right, nor should be tolerated.

timothydonohue said:
seriously, folks....
Did you not read any of the forum guidelines before you started posting?...yada yada yada and blah blah blah
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I could honestly be missing the point here, but by posting your complaint in the Q&A aren't you just griping to those of us who are already in the correct place for general EVO questions instead of in the dev forum where the offenders actually are?

cardiox said:
If more developers came in here instead of developer wanna b's answering in such a way as to post boost, then we wouldn't have to...
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I think a developer wouldn't want to answer the question of some fool who can't even post in the right forum.

Crotchety said:
I could honestly be missing the point here, but by posting your complaint in the Q&A aren't you just griping to those of us who are already in the correct place for general EVO questions instead of in the dev forum where the offenders actually are?
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yes, but what point would i be making by posting it in there? and, as mauldin pointed out, i answer enough of those threads.
however, unless i'm grumpy, i try to both answer their question AND point out that it should be posted in the appropriate place.

I'm with you OP, its irritating and actually disrespectful to the community
BTW, this should have been posted in dev.. lol

timothydonohue said:
yes, but what point would i be making by posting it in there? and, as mauldin pointed out, i answer enough of those threads.
however, unless i'm grumpy, i try to both answer their question AND point out that it should be posted in the appropriate place.
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I hear you and I just joined XDA not too long ago at all. A few things I learned right away:
- USE THE DAMN SEARCH BUTTON
- READ READ READ READ READ READ
- If you can't find an answer using the search button, open a new tab and Google it
- Still can't find an answer? You'd better search through the other threads before starting a new thread
- These threads wouldn't be so long if people would simply read the OP
- Kittehz r dyin cuz u dont no how 2 reed
Seriously though, I hate to see a great community become angered over lazy people. It ruins it for those of us who do heed the rules.

I am with the OP and to the persons aying if more devs came and answered there questions in QA they wouldnt ask in dev .... most of the people answering questions in DEv arent the DEVS. the DEVS are busy developing things and shouldnt be expected to waste there time answering the same 3 questions everyday all day.
Many people on the forum DO come to the Q&A and try to provide insight. Some are less helpful then others but in general you will get flamed less, you will get the answer and you wont cause issues with the "neatness" of the forums.

timothydonohue said:
yes, but what point would i be making by posting it in there? and, as mauldin pointed out, i answer enough of those threads.
however, unless i'm grumpy, i try to both answer their question AND point out that it should be posted in the appropriate place.
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Fair enough. As a seasoned XDA vet of a whopping 3 posts (including this one), I would defer to you on this issue, but I just think it looks like you're complaining to the wrong people. We're already in the Q&A which means we're already doing what you devs have been trying to get the offending posters (who are over in the dev forum) to do. They're not gonna see your OP in here because they're too busy bypassing the Q&A and heading over to Dev to annoy you guys with generic questions again.

Basically what has happened is the Evo and other somewhat likfe phones have blown up. Word spread like wildfire that XDA was the place to get any and all help with your phones. (Which don't get me wrong 99% of the people here are more then willing to help.) This brought a lot of new people on the scene and wanting information and help. Unfortunately some of those people don't want to play by the rules of the road.
Maybe it's just me but it seems like over the past couple months this is what's happened. I seem to remember another thread this was brought up and a suggestion was made about being a member for a certain period of time before being able to create a new thread. I'm not saying this needs to happen because I don't think that would solve anything actually.
Ok...my rant's over now too.
*Just my 2 cents*

Discussion: Important XDA Announcement Regarding New Users

This is for discussion about the recent news that we'll soon be disallowing posts to development forums for new users with 10 posts or less in an attempt to cut down on junk posts.

I believe is a good new way of lowering down the crap-posts
What else a normal member can do to help?
- Report any problematic post by using the "report" button
- Help to improve and maintain a friendly ambiance
Thanks!

>25 would be better.

It sounds very very good. I'd like to suggest a little thing:
is it possible to ban thread with "HELP me please" title?
This type of title is common and doesn't help to focus the problem.

Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel

spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
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Daniel, I totally agree with you. These are very valid points. Many people lurk here, mainly because they don't want to look stupid when they ask questions - and then, when they get serious after gaining knowledge here, they try something and they can't post? That isn't right.
The biggest issue here at XDA is what I mentioned above - people are hesitant to post because of the reaction they frequently get - on the flip side, those that do post in the proper areas for questions and answers are lucky if they get answers sometimes, I've had questions go unanswered, when I posted in what I thought was the proper forum (never in the ROM development forums). So what I think you really need to do is to come up with a good support forum for custom ROMs, and have knowledgable people read and help out in there - no matter how 'dumb' the question is in their eyes. From my experience, the only 'dumb' question is the one you don't ask. Will that 'cut down' on the 'dumb' questions? Yes, in the ROM development forums it will - only if they're answered elsewhere, however.
You have to remember, Android doesn't come naturally to everyone, some come from other 'worlds' where they know what they're doing, then they're tossed into the thick of it when they try to make the switch (been there, done that). Are there people who really shouldn't be messing with their phones? Of course there are. Is it XDA's job to let them know they're too dumb to be messing? Or is it a better plan to help those people learn? I've always found the latter to be a better plan.

spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
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Well, that is kind of the idea. If you have questions or are not sure about something, you are supposed to try and find the answers by using the search engine. If you must ask questions, most device forums have a Q&A section where you can post. Keep in mind that the announcement says that you will still be able to read, just not post.
As for the "no real development" comment... these forums are not just guides to teach others how to flash custom stuff. It is called development because the roms, kernels, themes, apps don't just magically appear from thin air. There is a lot of work done to get a custom rom to even boot in a device (let alone get it to work properly). You need to tweak drivers, apps, test, test, and test some more before you can even consider releasing something. And don't even get me started in porting and kernel development.
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.

All I can say is about friken time! I have been discussing this rule with a number of mods for a long long time now and frankly I still think 10 is too low, but its a great start and should cut a lot of the rubbish or at least make some people think twice about where they are posting their questions.

spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
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Click to collapse
I agree with spock ("Live long and prosper"). For newbies, which I may still be considered, searching the forums is daunting. For example, I have an HD2. I was running Android off of SD for a few months, then just last week took the plunge to NAND. You guys are really making progress on cleaning up the forum structure, because at least now in the HD2 section there are different "development" sections for NAND and SD, etc. BUT, when you are searching for the perfect ROM, it is very confusing with all of the codes in the ROM names. It took me 5 different tries between NAND roms and CWR roms (using clockwork recovery, I'm not THAT DUMB) to finally get one to boot up. I was sweating for a bit!!!
Plus, when you use the search function in the forums, the results very rarely seem to match my search. I understand the experts' frustrations when a newb asks a question or needs help with something that's already been covered, but I have searched numerous times looking for help with bluetooth on a rom, or music skipping, or whatever. Sometimes, I'll take 45 minutes reading through the search results and will realize that none of them are even touching on the subject I was searching for.
Don't get me wrong, I am extremely grateful for all that the XDA team does. I visit this site daily, and follow the news with RSS on the Google Reader. I love it. But, since you're asking for suggestions, there you are.
;-)

It's a shame that you guys need to enforce this kind of rule but we really do need something to keep this forum in control.
Good job.

As i am mech engg and i dont about Rom and other things so i have to post stupid posts
and also some stupid post might help someone
if you can help "If some dev posts some information make sure that he posts his post well informed. by this unnecessary posts can be avoided"

Fair play on attempting something. This is one of a few large community sites I frequent and they all suffer from the problems you describe. Unfortunately no-one has the answer and it is a case of trail and error to find what works.

egzthunder1 said:
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See, I didn't even know that. I think this is a smart move, since it will all but force n00bs like myself to direct their comments to the appropriate forum. In terms of other recommendations, I would say having a ROM support forum, as somebody else mentioned would be a good idea.

egzthunder1 said:
Well, that is kind of the idea. If you have questions or are not sure about something, you are supposed to try and find the answers by using the search engine. If you must ask questions, most device forums have a Q&A section where you can post. Keep in mind that the announcement says that you will still be able to read, just not post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Post<>opening a new thread.
Let me phrase this:
1. I have been reading the forum for 1-2 weeks.
2. Then I couldn't find the answer and I have opened an account.
3. I want to post a question to the maker of the custom rom.
4. I can't do this!
5. I will post 10 idiotic comments somewhere else to get my right.
Is this what you want? I (you can see all my posts) have never spammed or asked stupid stuff anywhere but a number of posts should be a sign of my maturity? Posting 10 Post gives you little to no sign if the user has and knows how to use search and stay still untill he has read at least 1000 posts!
This is what you should be aiming for.
Just because you can't measure it better doesn't make it valid. It is like giving you no mortgage loan because in your neighbourhood there were 5% not paying it back in time.
egzthunder1 said:
As for the "no real development" comment... these forums are not just guides to teach others how to flash custom stuff. It is called development because the roms, kernels, themes, apps don't just magically appear from thin air. There is a lot of work done to get a custom rom to even boot in a device (let alone get it to work properly). You need to tweak drivers, apps, test, test, and test some more before you can even consider releasing something. And don't even get me started in porting and kernel development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does this have to do with my remarks concerning the XDA developer forums?
I do agree with everything you said but "testing" especially means getting feedback from users that can't tell you anymore if "it worked".
egzthunder1 said:
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then make inexperienced users stop "opening new threads" instead of "posting answers/making remarks to current threads".

Naren Raj said:
As i am mech engg and i dont about Rom and other things so i have to post stupid posts
and also some stupid post might help someone
if you can help "If some dev posts some information make sure that he posts his post well informed. by this unnecessary posts can be avoided"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is the thing, and probably where lots of people are missing the point here. It isn't a matter of stupid posts. It is a matter of stupid posts in the wrong places. No one is telling you that you cannot ask for help. What we are saying is that, if all search efforts fail, please post in the right place....

seroaddict said:
See, I didn't even know that. I think this is a smart move, since it will all but force n00bs like myself to direct their comments to the appropriate forum. In terms of other recommendations, I would say having a ROM support forum, as somebody else mentioned would be a good idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...
My advice to all ROM devs would be to make their own thread in Q&A or general, called [SUPPORT] ROM NAME HERE Support Thread - Latest Version 1.2.3
In there, all users could post, regardless of number of posts. The first post would link to the main ROM, and perhaps contain a FAQ.
In the ROM release in development, have a large link to the Q&A thread at the start and end of the post. That way, those reporting bugs and helping with patches/fixes can post in the development thread, and those needing help can post in the Q&A thread.
Just encourage devs to do something like this

One of the things XDA added recently to cut down on posts was a "Thank You" button. It's a great idea! Where the heck is it? I would love to thank the devs that help me out with my HD2, but I CANT FIND THE BUTTON!
Can somebody draw me a picture or something?

I mean something has to be done. But being new to all this rooting, S-OFF etc kind of thing I do consider myself at least somewhat of a greenhorn . I do however try to keep my questions relevant to the topic and try finding the proper topic before placing a question.
But I am also struggling with actually get a proper answer, or an answer at all to some of my questions, making it hard for a new guy (or girl) to transend from being a greenie to actually become more and more knowledgeable over time. I mean if people dont share their knowledge and or their solutions then how are we all to benifit from them.
I do however admit that some form of moderation needs to find place, considering that some of the guides are actually more or less straight forward and quite frankly. If people can't follow a single straight forward guide then perhaps rooting, modding etc is not for them

thefinancemaster said:
One of the things XDA added recently to cut down on posts was a "Thank You" button. It's a great idea! Where the heck is it? I would love to thank the devs that help me out with my HD2, but I CANT FIND THE BUTTON!
Can somebody draw me a picture or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It appears to the left of the Quote button.
But IIRC it appears only after 5 posts, as we would have issues with new accounts being made solely to thank their "owner".
You're not far off the thanks button appearing.
I would screenie it, but there's little point. It's to the left of "Edit" for me ("Quote" for you I think as you won't see edit buttons everywhere)

This is your site and your rules. The only question is, that a person like me who has been a member for a short time, but been runing modded rom's for about 5 months (thanks to this site) can't post a question if I did have one. This is my second post, and the first one was to answer a question, I have found everything I needed and every question I had answered by way of reading posts. But if I do have a question I can't ask it because I have not posted alot of BS to get my post count up.

why ten post

All I want is to post my questions and answers in the rom forum of my choice

ya, i thought that was dumb too. i dont really care about the rest, just trying to figure out this rom

What rom would the be

The ten post limit is because alot of new members post questions in the dev section. If you are a general user of xda then a ten post limit is nothing.
Maybe try a different heading thay describes your problem in a nutshell. By the way what is your problem, you never said.
Sent from my Incredible using Tapatalk

Answer in this thread ten times and you will get your ten post
I agree with the ten post rule and actually believe it should be a higher number
Or even better if you had to be approved by a mod to be able to.post in the Dev section
Sent from my Incredible using XDA Premium App

Yeah, it is not that hard to get ten posts. Besides all you really need to do is read for a while. The development section is for the pros not for the questions that have been asked a thousand times
That is what this section is for!

i8qbert said:
Yeah, it is not that hard to get ten posts. Besides all you really need to do is read for a while. The development section is for the pros not for the questions that have been asked a thousand times
That is what this section is for!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EXACTLY...

I
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

Need
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

You could at least post your "10" in different threads....

If they want the development section to be developers, than I can understand that but it seems strange to ask a question about say, Myn's Warm TwoPointTwo here rather than on a thread about it.

srvxda said:
If they want the development section to be developers, than I can understand that but it seems strange to ask a question about say, Myn's Warm TwoPointTwo here rather than on a thread about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all, actually. While myself and others are also guilty of posting such banter in ROM threads, that isn't where it actually belongs. Questions posted in the ROM threads should be posted only if they're concerning the actual development of the ROM rather than the usual "how do I...?" or "wow, this Rom is great, thanks dev!".
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=713251
It appears a reminder may be in order, about the purpose of the development fora on XDA.
If you have developed a ROM, or are working with others to do so, the development forum is somewhere to discuss and share ideas, post useful feedback and logs or crash dumps, and to discuss a common goal developers are trying to achieve.
It is NOT the place to post your question because it gets higher traffic, or because more experienced users frequent it. Doing this just annoys those who are working on the device, and drives them away. Developers don't want to wade through 20 threads of "Help me urgently" to find their threads for porting and fixing camera issues etc. Similarly, if a thread is designated as discussion for developers say, porting a camera fix, please do not post in there asking "When will it be ready?", "Can I flash this yet?" etc. This is both completely disrespectful to those working on the project (you evidently haven't read the important posts in the thread), and also is making it harder for developers to find comments from other developers or testers when required.
Similarly, don't make loads of "Thanks for your work here" posts in an active development thread. It's just as annoying to developers as asking when something will be ready. If a ROM is complete, then go ahead and thank the developer if you wish, but don't go into threads for devs only, and interrupt it to post "thanks". It's basically spamming, and is treated as such.
If you are posting in development, you should have read every sticky and notice there, and should be actively developing or helping in the development of something. Developing isn't installing a ROM, or using a tweak, it's creating a ROM or other hack or tweak. If you haven't read for several days before starting out on XDA, you are likely about to ask something already solved. I registered on XDA when I first wanted to post, and that was to join in a discussion on something. Sure, join up and ask a question, but read the information available in General and Q&A first, as your question will have been asked before. Search is your friend here, become familiar with it.
Regarding when to post in development if you are not actually developing something, there is one occasion where it's acceptable. If you find a leak of a new ROM, which isn't already posted, and you verify it's legitimacy via either running it, or based on the source you obtained it from, then this is assisting in development, and should be posted in development. If you want to ask when a leak will be available use search first, then if not already in discussion, open a thread in general or Q&A.
If you have a problem flashing a ROM, this is NOT related to development. It's up to you to determine if it is specific to a particular ROM, and post useful information in that developer's existing thread for the ROM. If it happens on more than one ROM, and isn't a known issue (remember you should read several times more words than you post), then find out what you are doing wrong. Check guides written by others, try to repeat the problem and see if it happens every time. Something needs to be reproducible to be fixed effectively.
Once you have identified what you need help with go to the device Q&A forum (general if device lacks one), and make a clear, informative thread that explains the issue, and what you have tried doing to fix it. Did you re-download the ROM? Did you ask a friend to flash it for you, to reduce chance of user error? What steps (exactly) did you follow? What errors did you see (exact wording)? Did you double check all the steps? Did you do a wipe or hard reset?
If you make a clear, concise, yet detailed post, you will find help forthcoming, and should get the problem sorted very quickly. If someone suggests you try something, report back on what happened, did it work etc. Then, next time someone has this issue and searches, they will find this and have a verified and tested solution.
So remember... before you start a thread in development, ask yourself what you are developing. If you can't answer, then stop, step away from the post button, and think about where you are posting. Would it be better in General or Q&A, or is some more time with your best friend, search, required?
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Ten posts?
I tend to read and only contribute if I have something to say. Not in this case! Now I have to post just to post. Gee this is kinda fun. I think I will start posting meaningless drivel on more topics. Thanks ten post rule!

Ya post Hi in the introduction thread then Thank everyone who welcomed you. Hell, there's at least 2 or 3 post. Then check out the development (apps/games) and find something you want there and thank them for their hard work.
10 posts shouldn't take you more than a few days if you're active. Don't need them anyway as the question you're wanting to ask has already been asked.

10 post is annoying, but I understand the reason. Post.

This is the reason for the 10 post rule.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1121527
I realize that this post had over 100 post, but not the place for their post.

My question is why our devs dont have a dev title instead of Senior Member I mean that why some devs leave XDA and get their own website because they don't get the credit or place that they deserve....??

1107963 said:
My question is why our devs dont have a dev title instead of Senior Member I mean that why some devs leave XDA and get their own website because they don't get the credit or place that they deserve....??
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You need to apply for the dev title only some get it i just found out about it like 2 days ago

JoelZ9614 said:
You need to apply for the dev title only some get it i just found out about it like 2 days ago
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Click to collapse
I think that makes sense. That way not just anyone can say I am a dev. I think that with the work your guys do it should have some prestige to it.

Dumb
The only reason I use XDA is as a root resource; this is just irritating that I have to post these ten msgs.

[Administrator Request] Enable Wiki Posts w/in threads

I've been a member for over a year and been fairly active in the Epic 4G forum.
It has been my experience that a myriad of questions are constantly re-asked & re-answered by ROM devs and other little elves b/c people are too lazy to search/read-back the threads, or are simply too daunted by 10's & 100's of pages of posts.
This has become a problem to the point where on a couple different occassions we created off-site Wikis just to help redirect people to answers to common problems. The problem with this is people have to be told each time..."Go to the Wiki [here]". It would be grand if you would enable Wiki-posts. It would allow each thread to have its own little ecosystem so that Devs wouldn't have to micro-manage & update OP with Q&A on every little bug, the little guys could keep it up to snuff. It's a great way to crowd-source troubleshooting. I've seen it successfully done on a number of threads.
What's more, I believe the OP can disable it if he prefers not to have one.
Thanks for listening!

.
Thread moved. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.

Xda has a WIKI for all devices granted some pages need updating so i doubt the Admin will enable wiki in posts

lufc said:
Xda has a WIKI for all devices granted some pages need updating so i doubt the Admin will enable wiki in posts
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Click to collapse
Very aware of the XDA Wiki, in fact, we are using it at the moment (albeit it, somewhat unsuccessfully).
One advantage of in-thread Wiki is that it's all right there, right below the OP, right after all the other instructions. EVERYONE sees it, instead of a link to another page.
Another advantage is that it's generally easier for people to edit the in-thread wiki posts than an actual Wiki-page (I know neither is difficult, but this comes from my experience helping to maintain a ROM-devoted Wiki).
As far as the drawbacks of in-thread Wikis, perhaps spam, or it being forced after the initial Post?
I'd like to throw the idea around. I know it would help troubleshooting/Q&A in the forums I participate in, thought I'd throw it out there in case others would be interested.
Thanks!
P.S. Thanks for moving my thread (and shame on my for not reading the forum descriptions more closely)

I second this. It's borderline vital in long development threads. The off thread wiki doesn't do a whole lot of good if the link to that wiki needs to be hunted for, same as everything else.

Too bad the wiki doesn't even work on my computer...I think it's something with my wifi but idk.

Years on and this is still something I wish we had on this forum. In thread wikis are essential, especially on a website as big as this with threads that run for hundreds of pages. When you come to a thread months or years after it started, the OP is often irrelevant, and the links broken. It's not reasonable to expect someone to read hundreds of pages in a forum thread to find out what the current situation is.
So people ask the same questions, over and over. Eventually people get annoyed and stop answering, and just say the ever unhelpful "go read". I'm always willing to read and learn. But wading though tons of outdated data doesn't have to be a necessity. A simple thread wiki post would make this so much easier. If you're not familiar with the concept SlickDeals.net has one (it's available to every thread but not always used). A deal is posted, people chime on on how to improve the deal. The thread may go one for a few pages, but the wiki means you can get all the relevant info in one place. The info from the OP can change, the OP doesn't have to answer basic questions over and over, or any questions. Another person can take over the thread and keep it relevant.
I checked out this wiki https://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/Samsung but it's not updated. So why not a wiki post, it's right where people are looking for the info, so more likely to remain relevant and updated.
Years on from this OP and still no in-thread wiki post? Any reason why?
I'm a PHP developer, and have been for more than a decade, if any techs want to talk more about this, I'd be happy to chat.

My favorite is when people start belly aching and go on a tirade if a newcomer hasny read the entire thread. 1/4 of which is people asking for ETAs, and the other 1/4, people getting pissed at people asking for ETAs. Like they are getting brownie points from the Dev or something X^D
I have wasted so many people's time because I've had to ask questions that have been covered a billion times. I've also had tips/tricks get buried and never come to light again which is a shame.
XDA is all about development and progression, and yet the absence of a wiki post prevents a lot of knowledge from being readily available and wastes Devs time.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk