Related
http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good
well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things
vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.
jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!
Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
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Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.
Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.
It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.
As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.
that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).
To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.
If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.
The promises are good but like that first update I feel like we're going to wait until the last quarter of the year to get anything.
Thoughts?
If all these features here today WP7 would be in a much better place. Ideally the update should come before the iPhone 5 but I don't see that happening.
nor do I nothing has been specc'd regarding the new hw either...but the nokai thing is a good thing for microsoft
Oh My God! No new devices?!
All this for (almost) nothing!
Why do you need new devices? Do you really think a front facing camera will be implemented this year? Do you feel the need for more power? Is the phone not fluid enough for you? This is what WP7 was designed for, not to NEED new devices, and not to create obsolete hardware with new releases. I'm glad all of these features will be on the original devices, it establishes the loyalty promised, and I'm excited what 2011 will bring. Considering Q4 this year will be a year of release, I think all of those included features, and more I'm sure, go beyond any educated person's realistic expectations, and are nothing short of satisfying.
For those who missed it, the entire keynote video will be up on the MWC site, but you can see the demo of 3rd party multitasking and Kinect integration below. It was interesting to hear that, both, Steve Ballmer and Joe Belfiore mentioned that these are not all the new features to come and that we'll be hearing more later this year (it hinted at the next generation of hardware devices).
Multitasking:
Kinect:
You can also see the press release here.
cant wait for those update, it is just awesome.
FiyaFleye said:
Why do you need new devices? Do you really think a front facing camera will be implemented this year? Do you feel the need for more power? Is the phone not fluid enough for you? This is what WP7 was designed for, not to NEED new devices, and not to create obsolete hardware with new releases. I'm glad all of these features will be on the original devices, it establishes the loyalty promised, and I'm excited what 2011 will bring. Considering Q4 this year will be a year of release, I think all of those included features, and more I'm sure, go beyond any educated person's realistic expectations, and are nothing short of satisfying.
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Do you think WP7 didn't sell just because of the OS?
No, the hardware isn't compelling except for a couple of exceptions. Hardware is what drives sales initially and even with all the updates the Mozart, Trophy, Quantum, etc. will still be very average phones, specially when put next to a new Android or Apple phone.
Your point would be valid if the update was coming within 3 months but I bet you my Omnia 7 that won't be the case.
Peew971 said:
Do you think WP7 didn't sell just because of the OS?
No, the hardware isn't compelling except for a couple of exceptions. Hardware is what drives sales initially and even with all the updates the Mozart, Trophy, Quantum, etc. will still be very average phones, specially when put next to a new Android or Apple phone.
Your point would be valid if the update was coming within 3 months but I bet you my Omnia 7 that won't be the case.
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There are numerous Android devices running on newer hardware and they look like average devices next to a WP7 device, not the other way around. Though I would have liked to see "prettier" models, I don't see the need for an advancement in hardware. The update is actually coming in less than one month... Just saying. There is one iPhone released every year, and since people on this forum are so quick to compare the iPhone and WP7 though I'm against it, I'll do it. That one phone gets bought throughout the whole year, even without a single update. So, I am more excited to hear about updates seeing as a refresh in a 'look' isn't so much needed.
But, with that being said, I think the OEMs will showcase the new devices, not Microsoft, if there are any.
FiyaFleye said:
Though I would have liked to see "prettier" models
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That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
FiyaFleye said:
The update is actually coming in less than one month... Just saying.
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The C&P update is due soon, there's no ETA for anything else except 2011.
Peew971 said:
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
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Again, that might be an OEM showcase though, not a Microsoft one, they don't make the phones.
Peew971 said:
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
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+1
This is one of the reasons I haven't upgraded yet. I want a great piece of distinctive hardware.
FiyaFleye said:
Again, that might be an OEM showcase though, not a Microsoft one, they don't make the phones.
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Allow me to have serious doubts. Samsung and LG already had their conference with no mention of WP7. That leaves HTC, Dell and maybe Acer. I think Microsoft would have had at least one showcase new phone to demo if there was one.
Peew971 said:
Allow me to have serious doubts. Samsung and LG already had their conference with no mention of WP7. That leaves HTC, Dell and maybe Acer. I think Microsoft would have had at least one showcase show to demo if there was one.
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In the conference, Ballmer mentioned the next generation of hardware announcements will be later on in the year. I wouldn't expect to see new hardware until either Christmas this year or next year. The Nokia concept images look quite nice.
Since the last thread had a 'no opinions' rule, I'll post this here:
So it seems like anyone with half a brain was correct - Microsoft is playing Apple's cynical game of withholding vital, easily-implemented features so that they can add them later to much media fanfare
They are reaching out to the casual base by gaining media support (these guys just loooove routine feature updates), presenting the illusion of "moving forward" ("hey look, we can do THAT now!") and not overwhelming the nontechnical user by not having all features available from the get-go.
In the process they are pissing on the so-called 'core base' (which aren't their core base at all obviously - clearly there is much more money to be made from the easily-impressionable, technologically-retarded crowd)
And that's all fine and dandy, but I just don't understand why people from THIS site would support this business model.
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I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
keyboardP said:
In the conference, Ballmer mentioned the next generation of hardware announcements will be later on in the year. I wouldn't expect to see new hardware until either Christmas this year or next year. The Nokia concept images look quite nice.
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Oh yeah, I have no doubts we'll see new phones this year but if they come around Christmas along with the Nokia phones that's a whole year gone with only average devices on sale. That's not going to boost sales.
Pickx said:
Since the last thread had a 'no opinions' rule, I'll post this here:
I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
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I honestly think you're wrong here. Apple does this to warrant the purchase of a new iPhone, and outdate their older models, whereas the WinPhone releases are going to work on original launch devices. It isn't as though Microsoft is charging us for these updates either, they have no incentives to hold back these updates, actually, in the position they're in, it's in their best interest to be quick with them.
Pickx said:
I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
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I wouldn't be so cynical. The first thing people are going to do when entering a dominated market is to compare the two devices. I don't think copy and paste was left out for tactical reasons because it's such a basic feature that it created more negativity at launch than positivity right now.
Apple could afford to do that because of their following and the 'trendy' kids who would buy the product regardless of what it has or doesn't have, because it has the 'Apple' brand on it.
Also, with you comparing the size of MS to its capabilities of releasing products shows a lack of understanding of how the company actually works. In fact, its size actually works against it at times.
There are some features that may be delayed for tactical reasons (flash?), but I hardly think copy/paste and multitasking would be dropped in order to gain some fanfare as they actually harmed the product when inevitably compared to the iPhone at launch.
Peew971 said:
Oh yeah, I have no doubts we'll see new phones this year but if they come around Christmas along with the Nokia phones that's a whole year gone with only average devices on sale. That's not going to boost sales.
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MS is in it for the long run though. It would make little sense in releasing devices running on current hardware specs, when people could wait towards the end of the year for the next generation specs. Of course, they might do that, but I don't think it makes much sense to.
keyboardP said:
There are some features that may be delayed for tactical reasons (flash?), but I hardly think copy/paste and multitasking would be dropped in order to gain some fanfare as they actually harmed the product when inevitably compared to the iPhone at launch.
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Yes, but which crowd did it hurt its chances with? The kind of who compare features and read tech blogs aka NOT the casuals. This crowd is becoming increasingly irrelevant when it comes to actually selling devices.
I still think the biggest reason to withhold features is media support. Mobile phone wars have demonstrated time and time again that constant media attention is cardinal to continued interest in a product (especially when said product is, say, an operating system a.k.a something which an entire line of products is based on). By routinely making feature updates, and delivering said features with some "user experience glitter" on top, Apple has been able to receive constant attention even from news outlets that are not strictly related to consumer tech. Microsoft would, naturally, want a similar treatment but according to my view, they are doing this the easy way - not by announcing feature updates that contain so-called revolutionary features but rather with features that the competition has already had for a while.
Also, if WP7 had copy/paste, multitasking, Flash on launch date, what would Ballmer be showing us now on MWC? Tight SkyDrive integration is a fantastic feature IMO but the average non-techie guy who already has a WP7 device just wouldn't find it as "sexy" as a YouTube video that shows the device multitasking.
Yeah, I know some will say it's immature but as someone who has jumped in front of a train of android fanboys time and time again defending all of my WP7 devices is getting harder and harder when it seems that not even Microsoft wants to take themselves seriously. If they don't begin to take themselves and us, the more intelligent userbase, seriously then I won't be taking them seriously and my 8 WP7 devices will be traded/sold off on craigslist for another unfortunate soul to pick up. I love the WP7 UI, absolutely love it. I don't know where to go after this to get a UI that's even 1/10th as good as the WP7 UI but this phone that microsoft more or less promised the world on is looking less and less so on a daily basis. If Microsoft doesn't stop taking us seriously... I don't know where I'll go for a phone OS because android is now too slow for me and Iphone screens are too tiny, but I will certainly take my rather spendy business elsewhere. I know the meager 2100 dollars I've spent on WP7 devices may not seem like much to a corporate giant like microsoft but that's more than most people are willing to pay in WP7's current form.
I don't blame you dude. Its getting ridiculous! Microsoft stated that the future updates for Windows Phone 7 would blow the Iphone and Android out the water... I was really excited by this as I had just picked up my Mozart, now 6 months on, no updates at all, nothing, zip! I have also been reading that NoDo will be the only update this year!?!?!
Yes I'm excited to have copy and paste on my device (something that should have been present in the first place) but Microsoft are missing a trick here! Yes this phone has a great UI but without getting the simple things right I can see it flopping. I'm also struggling with the accuracy of many of the Microsoft built in features such as Bing Maps, which can't seem to get me anywhere at all!
SORT IT OUT MICROSOFT!
z33dev33l said:
Yeah, I know some will say it's immature but as someone who has jumped in front of a train of android fanboys time and time again defending all of my WP7 devices is getting harder and harder when it seems that not even Microsoft wants to take themselves seriously. If they don't begin to take themselves and us, the more intelligent userbase, seriously then I won't be taking them seriously and my 8 WP7 devices will be traded/sold off on craigslist for another unfortunate soul to pick up. I love the WP7 UI, absolutely love it. I don't know where to go after this to get a UI that's even 1/10th as good as the WP7 UI but this phone that microsoft more or less promised the world on is looking less and less so on a daily basis. If Microsoft doesn't stop taking us seriously... I don't know where I'll go for a phone OS because android is now too slow for me and Iphone screens are too tiny, but I will certainly take my rather spendy business elsewhere. I know the meager 2100 dollars I've spent on WP7 devices may not seem like much to a corporate giant like microsoft but that's more than most people are willing to pay in WP7's current form.
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No blame here, either. In my case, I have an iPhone an HD2 and soon the Android equivalent of the iPhone: Nexus S, to keep my tech veins fixed.
In all honesty I don't know where to go from here though. May have to pick up another HD2. Android is too choppy for me and as much as I like the iphone with the WP7 theme the keyboard is too small.
z33dev33l said:
In all honesty I don't know where to go from here though. May have to pick up another HD2. Android is too choppy for me and as much as I like the iphone with the WP7 theme the keyboard is too small.
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Well I mean I'll be angry too, but wp7 as is, is still a fantastic device. You could just stay with it, and understand that it's just unsupported now.
Or would you bail because of the principle of it all?
I think it's utterly pathetic the way Microsoft is handling this. They came out a strong contender, but now are returning to what they were: a joke.
sure haven't said:
Well I mean I'll be angry too, but wp7 as is, is still a fantastic device. You could just stay with it, and understand that it's just unsupported now.
Or would you bail because of the principle of it all?
I think it's utterly pathetic the way Microsoft is handling this. They came out a strong contender, but now are returning to what they were: a joke.
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Primarily the principle... and as much as I hate to admit it I would like multi-tasking... if I am playing ilomilo and I sit my phone down for a minute I have to start the level over again... it's pretty lame. If tombstoning apps worked as it should it wouldn't be an issue.
M$? Seriously? You think they're delaying the update as some sort of diabolical scheme to make money? Or is it just because they want to taunt their users? I'm sorry so much of your self worth is tied up in a phone that you can't bear someone making fun of it.
I think it's pretty obvious it's not out yet because Samsung's firmware is garbage and they're trying to work around it. After this first one future updates should go much more smoothly.
Well I am pretty sure I am picking up a HTC 7 Pro/Arrive from Sprint on March 20th, and it comes pre-installed with the NoDo update. Obviously the update already works and is out if HTC is manufacturing the Arrive and will have them in stores on the 20th.
I would say that the issue of update is falling just on Microsoft.
Dude STFU! Official word was 90 days after CES. Officially they are right on time.
Its like you guys dismissed official word and believed bull**** rumors.
Damn I usually criticize this mediocre OS, but you guys are going too far.
Realistically, no profit minded business gives a **** about pushing updates to old hardware. It doesn't make money! Get over it.
jeffgeno said:
M$? Seriously? You think they're delaying the update as some sort of diabolical scheme to make money? Or is it just because they want to taunt their users? I'm sorry so much of your self worth is tied up in a phone that you can't bear someone making fun of it.
I think it's pretty obvious it's not out yet because Samsung's firmware is garbage and they're trying to work around it. After this first one future updates should go much more smoothly.
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Eh, they've had 6 months to do this. We are not children, they should've tested it on two of their most popular devices much before the release that bricked some devices with 0 benefits. The corporate world is not something you procrastinate in if you want to succeed in whatever market. I have no doubt given the support WP7 will be the best out there but it truly doesn't seem microsoft is taking it seriously. Samsung is garbage when it comes to drivers. That is and will continue to be their weak point for whatever reason.
vetvito said:
Dude STFU! Official word was 90 days after CES. Officially they are right on time.
Its like you guys dismissed official word and believed bull**** rumors.
Damn I usually criticize this mediocre OS, but you guys are going too far.
Realistically, no profit minded business gives a **** about pushing updates to old hardware. It doesn't make money! Get over it.
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And even more recent word was first two weeks of March. I'm not one of those people who acts as though the update should've been out in January. I went solely on Microsoft's word and it does get annoying when not only are the rumors incorrect but also the official word.
vetvito said:
Dude STFU! Official word was 90 days after CES. Officially they are right on time.
Its like you guys dismissed official word and believed bull**** rumors.
Damn I usually criticize this mediocre OS, but you guys are going too far.
Realistically, no profit minded business gives a **** about pushing updates to old hardware. It doesn't make money! Get over it.
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When did they ever officially say "90 days after CES" ? At first it was the "January Update." Then February. Then Early March. Now it's late March. I won't be surprised if it dips into ****ing April.
WP7 is a solid OS, there's nothing mediocre about it. It makes iOS look like an archaic toy in terms of UI.
But with all that said, Microsoft is taking WAY too long to bring the OS up to feature parity with Android and iOS, and it's starting to get a little ****ing ridiculous. what we SHOULD be getting this month is Mango, not NoDo. Microsoft is dragging their damned feet, and the more they do it the further they'll fall behind.
They CANNOT afford to take their sweet damn time like this. If they do, the platform will die.
jasongw said:
When did they ever officially say "90 days after CES" ? At first it was the "January Update." Then February. Then Early March. Now it's late March. I won't be surprised if it dips into ****ing April.
WP7 is a solid OS, there's nothing mediocre about it. It makes iOS look like an archaic toy in terms of UI.
But with all that said, Microsoft is taking WAY too long to bring the OS up to feature parity with Android and iOS, and it's starting to get a little ****ing ridiculous. what we SHOULD be getting this month is Mango, not NoDo. Microsoft is dragging their damned feet, and the more they do it the further they'll fall behind.
They CANNOT afford to take their sweet damn time like this. If they do, the platform will die.
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January and February were tech blog rumors. Android reallly doesnt have much further to advance so that's not a concern. With them it's pretty much a hardware battle from here on out.
Oh my gosh, AT CES THEY SAID 60-90 DAYS! NO TECH BLOG, NO RUMOR. FACT.
I think you should calm the fsk down and stop treating your phone like a football team. You *threw* yourself in front of android fanboys? the chivalry lol!
vetvito said:
Oh my gosh, AT CES THEY SAID 60-90 DAYS! NO TECH BLOG, NO RUMOR. FACT.
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Ballmer himself said first two weeks of March
z33dev33l said:
Android reallly doesnt have much further to advance so that's not a concern. With them it's pretty much a hardware battle from here on out.
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You sound like the Guy that made a living selling oil lamps in the early 1800s. "There is nothing else they can invent, this is the best technology can get". Yeah right.
pillsburydoughman said:
I think you should calm the fsk down and stop treating your phone like a football team. You *threw* yourself in front of android fanboys? the chivalry lol!
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Yup, that added something to the thread.
vetvito said:
You sound like the Guy that made a living selling oil lamps in the early 1800s. "There is nothing else they can invent, this is the best technology can get". Yeah right.
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Honestly cant think of a good addition thats been added to android since... I don't know... multi-tasking?
I hate to say it, but the OP is right and the defenders are wrong. And I'm throwing down the gauntlet, too: if NoDo doesn't hit in March, I'm DONE.
As a rule I am not an early adopter anymore, in large part thanks to experiences in the gaming tech area. In that area, it's never, EVER a good idea to buy anything at launch because early adopters get screwed, 100% of the time. By the time the platform has matured to a level where there is a nice library of games and the hardware bugs have been worked out, there's usually a price drop or addition of features--or both. Whatever else is true, adopting later is more satisfying than adopting sooner, because you get more and better quality stuff for a lower price.
When I went to go buy a new iPhone, I fell head over heels for WP7 on the Samsung Focus. The UI is brilliant and I don't give a **** what anybody says to the contrary, Super AMOLED makes Retina display look like ****. It's not even a contest, and whenever I've shown my Focus to someone, side by side, with their iPhone 4--they've agreed unilaterally that the Focus has a better screen.
But the fact is, Microsoft launched WP7 too soon. It's missing basic, OBVIOUS features that should have been there from the outset. Custom ringtones, copy & paste, multitasking, sending SMS videos--all I can say about those features is "****ing DUH." Of COURSE those are obvious and should have been there from the outset. Any moron realizes that, and the fact that Microsoft dropped the ball on them is just ridiculous. That we're now almost FIVE MONTHS past launch and are still waiting for what amounts to a MINOR update is simply pathetic, and as a consumer I am starting to feel a little ripped off. Microsoft should not have launched WP7 in 2010. They should have waited until they at least got the obvious, ground level features that every dumb-phone for the last half a decade has had standard, out of the box, to say nothing of what Smartphones have had since at least iPhone 3GS hit.
I've been an ardent supporter of WP7 from the outset. I love the UI--it's head and shoulders above the rest. I'm patient with the small marketplace because it's growing fast and I enjoy the excitement of seeing what new goodie comes out next.
But I'm losing patience with how Microsoft has been handling the updates, and the absurd length of their release cycles. If this idiotically named NoDo update, which evidently should have been called "NoGo" instead, doesn't hit in March--then I'm done with the platform and Microsoft can suck it.
You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.
lekki said:
You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.
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Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).
It is odd how the OP says so much good for the phone. Reasons upon reasons why the phone was purchased and how great it was.
Then... because of no recent updates it must be a trash phone.
Get over it or buy a new phone. Stop complaining.
jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).
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I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.
This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.
lekki said:
I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.
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My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
Waiting a year is all well and good, and that's what I should have done--waited a year. I'd have had better hardware (not that there's anything wrong with the Focus--it's great hardware, but by the end of the year we'll see dual, if not quad-core phones) running a superior version of WP7.
Buying in early was a foolish mistake on my part.
stackover said:
This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.
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By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?
I feel where you are coming from. Its a bit frustrating when they release a new phone system into a highly competitive, quick paced mobile race, and seem to (from a consumers point of view) barely be working on it. Or putting few resources into it.
The UI and general experience is absolutely amazing. And you see so much potential with the OS, and know if they were to go full speed ahead it would not only compete, but overtake a large portion of market share. But they need to act quicker. Android is enormous and moving quickly, and the iPhone/iPad already has a huge portion of the consumer market locked into Apples ecosystem. You can't take your time adding necessary features. A great looking interface, and some great games only go so far. The phone needs to function, and function well. There are many missing 'standard' features right now, and those need to be addressed.
They do need to do things quicker, and we'll see how things go over the next 6-9 months, but if they want this to succeed, they need to start showing it. And be a little more proactive and transparent. The early adopters / fans are important for any new system to grow by recommending it to friends/family ect, so making everybody angry with the lack of basic features, slow/non existent updates, and lack of official announcements ect will only hurt their chances.
However, I am still a optimist. I see the OS for what it is, and can be. I see apps that are higher quality than anything on any other platform already, and the real kicker for me was the Nokia announcement. I think Nokia's upper end releases of wp7 will be huge, as will their services like ovi maps & navigation ect. Nokia makes great quality hardware, and if this is going to be their # 1 focus, then they will have some really nice handsets, which will also force the other manufacturers to compete within the platform like on Android. I think developers and others who make necessary platform apps also saw this as a sign to take wp7 more seriously.
But it is frustrating. I anxiously await the first update, and just hope that there will be some incremental updates as well before mango.
I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone
I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
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Click to collapse
You could do that with products that are failures - but you won't get much of your money back unless it's something somebody else wants.
The best outcome is if you simply bought something that didn't fit you (apparently without doing enough research), so you can make quite a bit on it if you find someone it will fit.
Of course, the latter approach would require some research, which seems to be the problem in the first place.
lekki said:
By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?
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Sure it is. When iPhone came out we *****ed within months and then for 2 years before they finally got C&P
Perezbah said:
I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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You're exactly right--they DID pull an Apple. The problem with that strategy is that Apple did it 4 years ago--Microsoft doesn't have 4 years to play catch up. If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.
kdj67f said:
I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone
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Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix
jasongw said:
My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
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I don't see it that way. I'm an early adopter because I want some time to get to know the device, explore it's features and such before the masses get their hands on it.
I also enjoy Alpha and Beta testing products of interest to me because in the past when I've done this, I've seen improvements made to the product that started with bugs I've reported.
I guess it just depends on what you want out of the experience. I like to be part of the community that shapes new technology - not someone suckling at some kind of techno-teat all "Me! Me! Me! Boo-hoo where's my update? I'm taking my toys and going home."
If, in any part of your life, you're getting "the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time" then you're doing something wrong. Once you figure out what that is, things will go better.
Heck, most of the software I run is alpha or beta - if it's not I feel like it's old!
Beta OS are just that, despite what the uber microites believe, the King in this case MS, definitely has no clothes and very little in the way of useful apps, live with it. My HD7 is in the best place for it just now, its box.
jasongw said:
Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix
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Your app? Which one?
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.
jasongw said:
If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.
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Click to collapse
Based on what exactly? Anyone who has watched the history of MS has seen them slowly constrict their competitors with relentless product improvement.
We saw it with mobile OS's when WinMo slowly eroded Palm to the point that Palm Inc. started putting WinMo on their own devices - who would have guessed that in 1999 when Pocket PC was just a year old?
MS has stormed into the gaming console world in a short amount of time.
Phones/mobile devices are a cool space because so many companies have changed the space in short spans of time. Palm, Handspring, MS, Apple, RIM, Google - they've all had earth-shaking moments that changed the entire industry in the past 20 years.
For those willing to try it, WM7 at least has the design to appeal to the massive segment of the mobile market who's buying a device to support what they want to do instead of what the device can be made to do.
mikeeam said:
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.
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I can deny it.
This post talks about a lot of devices besides the Lumia and as a result it is a little long, so I've bolded the key points for speed readers
I went on vacation last week and come back to an uproar about current devices not getting Windows 8 Phone updates (better name ), and honestly I really don't understand the vastness of the unrest. I get the points people make, but the conclusions are way out there for me!
My family is reasonably well equipped technology wise. I have an Alienware m17x, a 1st gen iPad, a Nokia Lumia 900, and a PS3. My wife has a Mac Book Pro 15, an iPad 2, and an iPhone 4s. The kids are on a Gateway desktop with an i7 in the living room. The kids also have iPods, one has a Pantec phone, several DS and LeapFrog devices. Rounding it all out is a smart Logitec universal touch screen remote, a sling box, several access points and a Wii. For the most part, we each pick the device that suits us best and fits in the price range / budget we set.
We also have laying around, an old Mac Book Pro 13, an iPhone 3s, an iPod, an 8 year old Dell XPS desktop, an HTC HD7, a Samsung Focus, a Tilt and a Tilt II, and an old Palm Tungsten C. And of course several candy bar and flip phone cells and various MP3 players, language translators and hand-held game thingies.
There's no way in hell I can have all of these devices on the crest of the technology wave all at once, we just can't afford it (in fact, my wife isn't so thrilled with how well stocked we are now... but there are times she's very happy with it :laugh.
My next major purchase will be a Win8 Tablet. I absolutely need to replace the iPad for work - the thing is a toy. In my quest for the ultimate portable work slate / play device, nothing out there has attracted my attention. Lack of connectivity, poor performance, a craptacular crayon-style writing on the iPad, lack-luster hardware, and the fact that I would also like an 11 to 13-inch screen has kept my money in my pocket. Obviously, I'm holding out until Win8 and the right tablet is there (eying the Yoga Flip closely!).
With the announcement of smart glass at E3, the urge was to jump on the deals and grab an XBox 360. ESPECIALLY since I could hook up all those iOS and possible future 'droid devices too! But, without BluRay support, I'm not going to bother. And with the next tablet purchase coming later this year (fingers crossed the right one is there in the next 6 months...), and with the 720 being rumored for the holidays next year. I'm waiting on switching from PS to XBOX when the 720 comes out, assuming the next-gen PS doesn't keep me in Sony Land.
It should be noted that along with the smart glass upgrade, I'll be looking at my existing Yamaha receiver and possibly upgrading that as well - my 5 year old model is good enough, but there are improvements out there and better ways to hook up the living room 'rack' - so that's also factored into the actual cost.
Which brings me to my jumping on the Lumia the day after it was available: I bought the Lumia knowing the risks of not being Win8 ready. I took the other slant with this upgrade as opposed to my next game machine and PC/Slate/Untrabook. I was contract-ready with AT&T, the price was right (and a few days later it was $0 - but they had me at $99), it had just enough improvements over my HD7 to entice me, and I didn't see me waiting until Q4 2012 or even Q1 or 2 2013 to get the phone upgraded.
Maybe it's within the context of all of the technology purchases I've got going on in my life that the Lumia 900 is just right for me. It is, by far, hands down, the BEST phone I've ever had. Excellent battery life, excellent responsiveness, great connectivity, and much to my amazement: the BEST reception and call clarity I've ever experienced on a smart phone. (I'm the only one in our downtown MPLS building who can send and receive calls anywhere on the campus, and never loose my 4G data connection).
I've been shocked at the excellent support from Nokia app-wise, and firmware-wise, and am very happy for the WP community to benefit from further integration of Nokia apps for non-Nokia phones. This phone, which I use first and foremost as a mobile phone (this part just HAS to be rock-solid for me), for all my e-mail all day long, for my browsing, gaming / entertainment, news and feed reading, and music play back is perfect for me as-is. The WP 7.8 update is just extras I didn't even expect.
No regrets. None. Nil. Not even close. I've purchased too many phones, computers, tablets, and other odd-n-ends to expect today's buy to still be tomorrow's top device. It NEVER works that way. 1 month later, the next device is just around the corner. 2 months later, another OS has better devices and features. 6 months later (or less) a new device is on my network for WP with new features I can't get on my current device. I had no reason to expect this to be my last phone purchase :silly:
Bigger screen support, NFC, multi-core... duh. I mean DUH if you thought this device would stand up to next-gen hardware. If you have a Nokia 900 and are upset it isn't the model being released in 6 months then you've got a significant learning curve ahead of you for all the other things in your life that you'll be buying. No way around it - it doesn't feel good, but it's an obvious truth. To expect otherwise is to believe in a spaghetti monster living on the other side of the moon. Sorry, but it's true.
When I do upgrade my phone, it'll be Nokia and it'll be W8P (still a better name, even at the end of this post :angel and it'll be cutting edge when it's that device's turn to get the latest and greatest.
Sorry for the length of my post, but the negativity around here is just plain silly and not worth the effort (for those experiencing it, and those of us who have to sift through it to get to actual facts).
Edit: I should have added that I am VERY happy with the updates I will get for my existing hardware, and also that I'm VERY happy that W8P will not support existing hardware. My reasons are that the hardware is improving at an extraordinary rate, and when I do get my next device I'll have one that has an OS that isn't bogged down with backwards compatibility issues - something that plagued windows for so many years until the hardware leveled out.
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
jr97ai said:
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
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Click to collapse
Actually, only the un-happy are noisy. Most people I actually know and talk too either couldn't care less, or are perfectly fine with it. Nokia will be fine. MS will be fine. WP8, Win8, and XBox will be just fine. There are ALWAYS people who scream dooms-day, but it never comes. Everything is always just fine
jr97ai said:
So I am only going to comment on one part of your post which is that you will probably get the Nokia WP8 when it comes out. I think you should say if it comes out. Nokia only started doing really well with this handset. Now Microsoft and the. Continue to push a handset with no upgrade path after making big news of an upgrade.
I have seen this when I worked at a tech retail store. People plan to wait when upgrades are around the corner. It is why Microsoft free or minimal cost software upgrades on purchases bought before the upgrade. They are doing this with Windows 8 because they know it would slow down sales.
So hopefully Nokia survives because as you can see from the posts Microsoft has alienated a lot of people and it is Nokia and any other Gen 2 device manufacturers who stand to loose sales. Lucky for Samsung and HTC they have Android to fall back on unlike Nokia. The biggest thing is that many of these people are the ones who recommend tech to others and rightfully would not recommend a device 6 months old with no upgrade path.
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Click to collapse
Totally wrong uninformed.....
I also am happy with my lumia 900 and also it was a decision I made whether to wait for WP8 or not.. ( I was actually waiting for the Lumia 900 as it had a front facing camera against the lumia 800).
There is always new tech coming out every 3 months a so and you either wait or get what is on offer that suits your need.
Regarding the WP8 update I am not so much bothered ( only regret is the nokia pureview camera 808).
I come from a Samsung galaxy S2 and the for me the SGS2 has been the best android device by far and the SGS3 didn't appeal to me at all, besides people were always complaing How most apps were not optimised to use the DUAL CORE of the SGS2.
Similiar things will happen when WP8 comes around there will be fewer apps and most current DEVS will keep developing for WP7 as they have just about got hang of it. So it will be atleast another year or so when we see Quality apps both for WP8 and Windows 8 which is just starting out as well, by which time I will be ready to purchace my Second Gen WP8 Just like my Second Gen lumia 900.
NFC is also not very popular in the UK at present and probably you will get NFC through sim cards or as stickers.
Till Next year my Lumia 900 rocks.. and then I will have decided about my next phone
sakenfenc said:
Totally wrong uninformed.....
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All I am going to do is laugh that you would write 3 weeks without explaining what it is applied to.. If its my whole post then I'm not sure how you can say I am wrong on the Windows upgrade offers which are true and I know from experience. The same goes for people holding off on purchases because of upgrades.... Its not my opinion... its from experience since I worked at a Retail Big Box store.
In regards to the part about Nokia and the risk here not sure how I am uninformed as there are numerous people saying this could stall sales:
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Windows-Phone-8--What-s-the-Impact-/story.xhtml?story_id=111008O891L0
Once again... it is wide spread knowledge that Nokia is not doing as well as was expected as mentioned below:
http://www.gsminsider.com/2012/06/no-windows-phone-8-updates-for-all.html
and here is another article talking about the risk to Generation 2 device sales...
http://nothingwired.com/2012/06/21/older-windows-phone-will-7-8-upgrade-windows-phone-8/
Btw, I could reference many other articles written by people who are not just owners upset by the lack of upgrade.
But apparently I am misinformed and only "negative noisy" people believe this....
Maybe you are misinformed....
jr97ai said:
All I am going to do is laugh that you would write 3 weeks without explaining what it is applied to.. If its my whole post then I'm not sure how you can say I am wrong on the Windows upgrade offers which are true and I know from experience. The same goes for people holding off on purchases because of upgrades.... Its not my opinion... its from experience since I worked at a Retail Big Box store.
In regards to the part about Nokia and the risk here not sure how I am uninformed as there are numerous people saying this could stall sales:
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Windows-Phone-8--What-s-the-Impact-/story.xhtml?story_id=111008O891L0
Once again... it is wide spread knowledge that Nokia is not doing as well as was expected as mentioned below:
http://www.gsminsider.com/2012/06/no-windows-phone-8-updates-for-all.html
and here is another article talking about the risk to Generation 2 device sales...
http://nothingwired.com/2012/06/21/older-windows-phone-will-7-8-upgrade-windows-phone-8/
Btw, I could reference many other articles written by people who are not just owners upset by the lack of upgrade.
But apparently I am misinformed and only "negative noisy" people believe this....
Maybe you are misinformed....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
sakenfenc said:
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
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Click to collapse
MS made a few diehard fans happy while the consumer base shifts away from WP, go figure. You don't have to tell people to go buy an iPhone. In fact, MS WANTS people to state "go buy a WP." Will anyone say this? Hell no, not even you.
A few people being noisy here are actually people who have been defending MS since the age of WM, like me. The rest who left simply left because they didn't even care throwing a word back. I know for a fact that I can't find a single ground to back MS any longer. Feature wise? No, too obvious. Fluidity? No because phones nowadays are supercharged, 2-3 seconds faster doesn't mean crap to fill up the gap of features. Update path? complete BS.
You can be sheeps for WP 8 to hopefully help it gain grounds. I know I will join the base once the damn thing becomes well established.
Why are ppl so much bothered about updates?
I bought my Lumia 900 simply because it looks awsome and is more reliable than any other smarthphone i have used. Surely it has bad points too but i dont give a damn.
I use my Lumia 900 to its last breath everyday, i am heave tweeter, emailing surfig gaming, calling etc. WP7 is perfect as it is, it only needs some minor touches.
Same goes for Android and IOS (in their childhood days, these OSes were not complete either, Infact IOS is still struggling with main features.
I was too keen on recieveing updates on my older phones but each time i updated problems started to come along. As soon as my Xperia X10 got updated to 2.3 i sold it after a week. My galaxy s2 when got updated to ICS i sold it after 3 days due to amount of FC and other lags. My Iphone 3gs i sold it after one week when got updated to IOS 4
Pls guys grow up.
yaiba60 said:
MS made a few diehard fans happy while the consumer base shifts away from WP
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Click to collapse
Got some facts or figures to back that up?
yaiba60 said:
A few people being noisy here are actually people who have been defending MS since the age of WM, like me. The rest who left simply left because they didn't even care throwing a word back.
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Click to collapse
Key word: Few. Well, 2 key words then: noisy.
I've seen this happen so many times before: Video games, TV shows, politics, religion... none of it ever comes true. A few leave in a huff, noisily disgruntled, and the rest continue on without any problems.
There's no dooms day, there's no market share problem, there's no negative impact what so ever with sales. Drag my post up in 6 months and prove me wrong about that, but I sincerely doubt that it will end up any other way.
yaiba60 said:
I know for a fact that I can't find a single ground to back MS any longer.
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Click to collapse
This is the only truth you've stated. It's your choice, always has been, always will be. And there's nothing wrong with your position, as it fits you at this time.
yaiba60 said:
You can be sheeps for WP 8 to hopefully help it gain grounds. I know I will join the base once the damn thing becomes well established.
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Click to collapse
Don't really feel like a sheep - heck, I posted the opposite of the current flavor of the week as far as opinions. And what I stated was my choice, always has been, always will be.
sakenfenc said:
Blah ... Blah... Blah... go buy Iphone...
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Click to collapse
Wy dont you at least post something pertinant to the conversation? The forums are made for discussion and thats what we are doing. I respect peoples opinions here if they agree or disagree with me but yours are plain useless.
I dont have to go and buy another phone because I have issues with what is happening. I hate the Iphone and have pushed the devices even after I bought a 6.5 device only to find out it couldnt be upgraded to 7.
I didnt have another 400 plus dollars to drop on a wp 7 device so I took an android device from my provider. I liked it alot and it received both a Gingerbread update and ICS. But I wanted a Windows phone so I bought the Samsung Focus which I just replaced it with the Lumia.
What frustrates me is that people are putting words in our mouths here. I dont hear anyone who complained saying they hate the Lumia or that they expect to get an update with features that apply to hardware that doesnt exist.
They just want an upgrade path such as the one Microsoft is providing to those who buy a pc before Windows 8 is released.
I may be wrong but hardware was quoted as the reason that WM devices didnt get an update but the HTC HD device proved that was not true. I dont believe that if Microsoft Windows specs are not even dual core that wp8 cantnbe ported. In my mind its a case of dont want to, not cant. If that was the answer as much as that would be frustrating I would respect it more then the "we can't".
In summary I will post my opinion and if you dont like it go read some static website with no discussion or coments.
What can you do to defend MS this time eh? If you think you can, then perhaps you might be interested in being the marketing general manager for MS that Gavin Kim left after 5 months. Pay rate is nice, I guess, but the job will be very, very tough.
When people leave, they simply leave without a comment (who cares really for a oh-so product?) The ones throwing comments are those who have been trying to back MS and become alienated by the very same company. You find it noisy? You have the choice to sit back and be quiet. By joining in you opt to be noisy as well. Plus, is WP noisy enough so that others will say "go buy a WP"?
If you want written facts, go find it yourself or wait for Gartner report. If you believe WP is doing well after this, well that's what you think. The deal is not a few, but a lot will dump WP and a few continue on, including you, because its limited features meet your expectations. The iPhone 4S is still going for $400+ used in Washington State, try to top that number with a lumia in any market. Even the iPhone 4 now has better resale value than the lumia thanks to recent news.
I don't need some dude to point out what's my choice and what's not. I call those WP8 adopters sheeps because it has not established a solid ground yet. If you know it's your choice, keep it to yourself because I didn't ask "why."
I say WP7 just became a "feature phone." Yeah, the competitive pricing did say something :victory:
yaiba60 said:
What can you do to defend MS this time eh? If you think you can, then perhaps you might be interested in being the marketing general manager for MS that Gavin Kim left after 5 months. Pay rate is nice, I guess, but the job will be very, very tough.
When people leave, they simply leave without a comment (who cares really for a oh-so product?) The ones throwing comments are those who have been trying to back MS and become alienated by the very same company. You find it noisy? You have the choice to sit back and be quiet. By joining in you opt to be noisy as well. Plus, is WP noisy enough so that others will say "go buy a WP"?
If you want written facts, go find it yourself or wait for Gartner report. If you believe WP is doing well after this, well that's what you think. The deal is not a few, but a lot will dump WP and a few continue on, including you, because its limited features meet your expectations. The iPhone 4S is still going for $400+ used in Washington State, try to top that number with a lumia in any market. Even the iPhone 4 now has better resale value than the lumia thanks to recent news.
I don't need some dude to point out what's my choice and what's not. I call those WP8 adopters sheeps because it has not established a solid ground yet. If you know it's your choice, keep it to yourself because I didn't ask "why."
I say WP7 just became a "feature phone." Yeah, the competitive pricing did say something :victory:
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*shrug* you posted on my thread - where I stated what I've done and where I'm at and what I plan to do, by complaining and taking things I said out of context and changing the meaning (i.e. noisy people), then attribute my post to being some kind of MS hype.
On top of that, you responded with factless claims of doomsday scenarios and disapointment. I ask for the facts to back up these claims, and you tell me to look for myself (meaning you don't have any, there's none to show).
There are pleanty of other threads here at XDA where people are saying the same thing as you are, ad nausium. You're free to go post there. I don't feel particularly bad when you post in my thread and restate what's been said before in other threads and accuse me of things I didn't say and attribute ideas to me that I didn't have.
I'm sorry for your sense of loss, I sincerly hope you find peace (this is not sarcastic, I mean it - it's only a phone after all ).
I believe you are missing a few points here:
jr97ai said:
I hate the Iphone and have pushed the devices even after I bought a 6.5 device only to find out it couldnt be upgraded to 7.
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Would you really have preferred that the 6.5 device were upgraded to WP7? That would have held WP7 back on specs/features, with the exception of a few phones (HD2).
jr97ai said:
I may be wrong but hardware was quoted as the reason that WM devices didnt get an update but the HTC HD device proved that was not true. I dont believe that if Microsoft Windows specs are not even dual core that wp8 cantnbe ported. In my mind its a case of dont want to, not cant. If that was the answer as much as that would be frustrating I would respect it more then the "we can't".
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Again, don't think for a moment that the Lumia 900 is out of the game. There are SO MANY of them out there now, that they will become the next HD2. DEVs are going to bring WP8 to the Lumia, mark my words. The device is too nice not to go there.
As for Microsoft not bringing it, I could care less. My Lumia is the best phone I've owned since I've been using wireless. And my first Mobile phone was a Motorola Bag Phone. Yes, the heavy shoulder strap phone that lasted about 3 hours and cost $200-$1500 per month to use. I've owned MANY phones over these years, and again, the Lumia 900 beats them ALL, hands down. If it was never upgraded to WP8, that's just fine! They did NOT say they were going to stop supporting it, they just said they were not going to port WP8 to it. There's a Big difference. You will still get updates, you will still get leading edge software, you will still get firmware updates. I don't see the problem.
When does a company decide when to stop supporting Full OS upgrades? It's a tough decision I'm sure, but it has to be made. If they offered OS upgrades forever, they would never make enough money to continue to develop. I don't want to see that happening.
My next phone will also be a Nokia. They are going to support WP better than any other OS, because they HAVE to in order to survive. They've already shown their support in a big way, and they've shown how they are going to continue to do so. Maybe it will not be WP8, but it will be the next best thing. A new Start Screen that most everyone has been anxious to get, and a host of other updates are to come. Just because they have not spelled it all out, does not mean it's not happening. They said all the NON-HARDWARE features would be brought to the Lumia. That could include All Sorts of Fantastic things. Some have already arrived (Camera Extras, Play-To), and I'm sure they will bring a lot more.
Before WP7, I also wanted the latest ROM or OS on my Windows Mobile phones, and to some extent, still do. I even ported and cooked ROMs to get there. But since using WP, I am not quite as anxious, because it really works quite well. That's mostly what I was trying to get out of Windows Mobile. Stable, Fast, Fun. WP Already has that!
My opinion, give Winkia/Nokidows a little time to prove where they are going to take us. Honestly, by the time WP8 comes around, I'll be itching for a new device anyways, so my Lumia 900 will replace my Focus as my Test Bed/Dev device...
Nobody talks about doomsday and whatnot, at least I never stated them. You got delusions about doomsday or is it haunting you
WP is small fry, idc about facts for this. If you love it, go research to back it up, don't tell me this and that. If you were successful, maybe MS would want you in its WP marketing team and pay you nicely. I never told you to agree with me. My style is "take it or leave it." My writing is not to convince, but to explain. I don't assume you this and that (heck I never even made a statement how you felt about your phone). However, it looks like you do assume a lot of thing about me. Why do you care? :laugh:
P/S: all my three Lumia 900 have been craigslisted successfully, I feel relieved
eknutson said:
On top of that, you responded with factless claims of doomsday scenarios and disapointment. I ask for the facts to back up these claims, and you tell me to look for myself (meaning you don't have any, there's none to show).
There are pleanty of other threads here at XDA where people are saying the same thing as you are, ad nausium. You're free to go post there. I don't feel particularly bad when you post in my thread and restate what's been said before in other threads and accuse me of things I didn't say and attribute ideas to me that I didn't have.
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I too am very happy with my Lumia 900. Coming from a Samsung Captivate, I can't complain. The difference is just night and day. It didn't bother me knowing the phone's inability for a WP8 update. When those devices come out, buy'em. Problem solved. When WP9 devices come out, buy'em! Problem solved..and so on.
The world is fortunate to have a vast variety of technological options. Options which never ceases to evolve. No need to whine when your brand new toy becomes obsolete tomorrow. Technology is about evolution.
Like what eknutson said, it's just a phone after all.
guys this thread is about some one likes the Lumia 900 and I love my Lumia 900 tooo.... so keep it to it...
all the people are talking about is that wp 7.8 will not be as good as the WP8..... come on no one knows what will be in WP7.8 and WP8???? this is stupidity to argue about things MS do not want to tell people right now...
and second of all MS and Nokia are not stupid that they will screw up users...
last but not least if your phone do not have NFC and high res screen then MS do not think the OS should be WP8, i am fine with it...
and if i dont get the WP8 or WP7.8 my phone still works graet i am very happy...
Microsoft officially announced what will be in 7.8: new home screen, 100,000 apps and counting, and Nokia Lumia exclusive apps.
I agree with you. I got mine today as a shift from my old n70, after 5 years of honorable service (now it starts to freeze, takes forever to boot, hangs-up every now and then and disconnects me once in a while saying "SIM card refused -time to retire - ) and I think it looks gorgeous. the screen is very good, especially with max luminosity. haven't tried everything, since I have to update the SIM to microSIM, but offline functionality has made me happy the moment it arrived. sent friend request
Dark_Ansem said:
I agree with you. I got mine today as a shift from my old n70, after 5 years of honorable service (now it starts to freeze, takes forever to boot, hangs-up every now and then and disconnects me once in a while saying "SIM card refused -time to retire - ) and I think it looks gorgeous. the screen is very good, especially with max luminosity. haven't tried everything, since I have to update the SIM to microSIM, but offline functionality has made me happy the moment it arrived. sent friend request
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Using "max luminosity", your battery will die much quicker. You will probably want to experiment with different settings to get a good look, and battery life. I used Automatic, and was happy most of the time.
Also, you can actually cut your SIM card using a knife or scissors to make it fit your phone. I've done it a few times. At least until you can get to the store and get a new one. Just look at photos on the internet to get an idea where to cut it, Pretty close, and it will work. Also, make sure it fits the sim tray well, so it does not hang up on the sim slot.