Related
Obviously, I think the use of the word "Series" tells me that Microsoft isn't done with the many "options" they will offer with WP7S. I think a nice enterprise/business UI is on the way as well, if not coming a bit after the holiday 2010 release.
Any predictions? I'm looking forward to this update in the Series just because my life really doesn't revolve around what my friends ate for breakfast and what movie they just went to see.
Personally, I need to make sure that I have a professional messaging/mail layout, Office, file management, VNC capabilities, and the ability to customize the UI based on limitations necessary per business needs.
1. Office Communicator Mobile with PUSH capabilities
2. Remote Device Management
3. Remote Desktop
Well, I guess Microsoft already put a lot for Business users in there: multiple Mail-Push-Systems, Sharepoint Integration and so on.
One could perhaps integrate Status messages on corporate progress from time management systems to the people screeen (and i'm pretty sure this already integrates with MS Exchange).
It comes down to what information u need and u are able to have that on the Start Screen via Live Tiles. What will be interesting is how company's will be able to deploy their custom software to the devices - as Marketplace is not the way to deploy these.
All the Social Networking Systems are just a means of adding additional information - u don't need it, u don't use it. Guess there'll be a RDP Client in there (although i hope it's more usable now, than the version in WinMo 6.5).
Remote Management - well, do you really think MS would release a phone that supports all the features of MS Exchange Active Sync but omit the manageability (disable storage card, disable camera, wipe device are not that hard to implement).
Seeing as WP7 will be almost as crippled as the iPhone, let's see ways in which it will be better, besides replaceable battery and memory card(and it's not certain every OEM will follow up on those either). So far it has two weaknesses that only the iPhone has: Lack of multitasking and apps must go through the marketplace.
In order to pick up iPhone users it will have to offer some advantage that the average iPhoner will notice.
Some advantages:
Information at a glance a la today screen with the hubs. iPhone has nothing like this.
It will (supposedly) have some degree of multitasking.
Two more hardware buttons.
Its funny since I've had my HD2 I've not really used multitasking and when I had my iPhone only not being able to use Spotify in the background bugged me so maybe certainly for me multitasking isn't a be all and end all.
Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.
Jim Coleman said:
In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
The hubs/services (I'm not sure what MS is calling these) system looks good; getting new relative options available on multiple hubs just from installing a single app (like they demo'd with Facebook) should make all the apps work together much better than on an iPhone. I already want to try to make one to generate a music playlist based on past plays, and another to find lyrics to the currently playing song; If I understand the system properly, these would automatically integrate into any 3rd party apps using the appropriate media API's.
Also the context-sensitive search looks to be awesome.
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
weesals said:
One disadvantage: possible lack of native code execution and probably no OpenGL support - making it harder for iPhone app developers to port their existing apps to Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
weesals said:
Lets hope theyre not too stingy with giving out access to these API's!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time. Microsoft will not publish any documentation about native API's. To get access to them the manufacturers will have to apply to Microsoft on a case by case basis. If Microsoft judges that a native API is required (and if there actually is one that might help) then only at that point will they release any information, and a condition of this is that they will vet the resulting piece of software to verify that the native API is being used correctly, and forbid the release of the software if it isn't.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gogol said:
The only thing I like about iPhone is how I use the virtual keyboard to type text.
I have tested HD2 and iPhone in a store, and from my own perspective, iPhone is more responsive and accurate compared to HD2.
I hope WP7 can be better than those 2 platforms in this task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that isnt aways based on the OS or software, but the quality of the touch screen.
Jim Coleman said:
Having read lots of stuff about WP7S, the conclusion I have come to is this...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This definitely seems like the best thing to do for multitasking in WP7.
We are going to need a task manager though...
As for comparing to the iPhone:
-WP7 will be available in different hardware configurations, giving the consumer a choice in the style and capability of their device.
-Xbox integration, which will most likely include Arcade games (ported for playability of touchscreens)
-Better hardware standards
-Not quite as locked down (hopefully)
RAMMANN said:
why the heck should iPhone devs have an easy migration to WP7 if WM 6 devs don't?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because that's where the money is.
Seems people are struggling to come up with any, maybe something magical will appear in the next few weeks, although I doubt it, the advantages of WM seem like they will be gone with WP7, people on forums like this and blogs have been asking for a windows mobile iphone [without being an iphone] and it looks like they're going to heed the demand.
The most important advantages are gone.
They've made an exact copy and think it is enough. But it's not. When you try to catch up, you have to be better.
There's almost nothing WP7 is better at. It's an exact copy of iPhone OS with a better UI on top, but lacking the thousands of applications. That's not going to be enough and I really can't think about a reason why consumers and developers would be excited about this.
(and don't get me wrong - I LOVE the UI - it's just not enough)
Free Microsoft Office (Document viewing, creation, downloading, and editing)
Abobe Flash Player 10.1 is coming
File downloads (possibly)
Apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager will likely come and be allowed
XBOX LIVE! Enough said.
Zune integration and support (I'm a Zune user)
1GHz Snapdragon is the processor minimum (This will lead to awesome apps and games)
WVGA display minimum (You might not care too much about this one, but I've seen the difference, and it's AMAZING!)
Bing search (That's just my preference.)
Contextual search (A handy feature, I suppose.)
There is not an app collection of 100,000 with most of which being totally useless. This means that you"ll be able to find the good apps.
Even if Microsoft won't allow apps like a Wi-Fi router and file manager, all we would need to do would be to get all WinPhone7 users on XDA to install the XNA Game Studio (and possibly the Win Phone7 SDK) and we could simply upload .ccgame files to XDA instead of .cab files.
giggles33 said:
why must every phone be compared to an iphone...personally I never liked the iphone, never will...only good thing about iphone is the apps..otherwise it sucks..and high end smartphones should not be compared to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know! Why must smartphones always be compared to a simple feature phone! I've tried the iPhone/ iPod touch (3rd generation) at Best Buy stores, and, let's just say, they froze more and gave out more errors in 5 sec. than 5 WinMo devices did combined over the course of 2 hours. The iPhone's keyboard isn't too great either. It's (the errors thing) 100% true.
Jim Coleman said:
There will be two types of apps
1. Apps with no need to run in the background
2. Apps that do need to run in the background
Examples of type 1 are games, spreadsheets and word processors.
Examples of type 2 are IM apps like palringo, and music streaming services such as pandora.
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Shasarak said:
The impression I'm getting so far is that they will be very stingy indeed. The only people who will ever get access to non-standard API's will be phone manufacturers and networks, and even they usually won't get access to the native API's most of the time.
What we don't know yet is where multi-tasking sits within all this. Is it a standard managed API, an extended managed API, or a native API?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you're talking about native vs managed stuff, which is not the same as simply allowing an app to have a background process. True, AT&T and HTC will have to apply to for native API use for stuff relating to making calls, etc, but that was only about OEMS and network operators.
Regular 3rd party guys, of which there are many, will be expected to get a way to do what they need on the device. Pandora we've seen in Music, you can expect apps like Palringo showing up in People
burnblue said:
This is the right answer. Anybody who calms down would see that this makes sense. More Apple-like approval process for Type 2, free reign for Type 1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean Microsoft will act like that. In fact, I'm sure they will not.
The mass market will not benefit from every joe having all the API's because it's going make programs that cause glitches/crashes/memory leaks, etc. They are doing what they think is best for mass market and that is make sure things work well on the device and everything is user friendly with the least amount of hiccups possible. So that means more restrictions on us.
^^^ +1
Jim Coleman said:
What will happen is that when you develop an app, by default it will not have the rights to use the background APIs. In order to gain access to them and have an app run in the background, you'll need to ask Microsoft to provide the access and make it a type 2 app. Microsoft will only allow this if you can convince them it is necessary for the functioning of your app.
Type 1 apps will simply pause when the user switches away from them. They will remain in memory but will be unable to execute any code until the user switches back to them, whence they will resume execution. This will ensure the app cannot hog any CPU and cause the UI to stutter or slow down. This is definitely a good thing.
Type 2 apps are given access to particular APIs to allow them to, for instance, download updates or postings on IM systems. This will be strictly controlled and priority will always be given to the UI, again to ensure it remains smooth and responsive.
That's my take on what's going to happen, and we'll see if I'm right at MIX 2010 next month.
So your answer is - yes it will multitask but only when it is truly needed. Which to me is the best of both worlds. It will ensure a smooth user experience whilst still allowing background operations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This neither solves problems nor guarantees anything though. Poor code is still poor code. Too many apps running is STILL too many apps running (slows the UI). MS can police neither. So, your #2 solution really makes no sense and has no advantages. MS has no way of predicting who will run what app and when on their phones. What if a user chooses to run several "Type 2" apps? Will you get some sort of error message? Will the MS police arrest you for ruining the UI experience? What happens after several years of approved type 2 apps hitting the market? Now were back to the same problems of WM.
Dude, we're talking about 1Ghz+, 512MB+ RAM phones here! You can run lots of apps without slowing anything down. Really, the "multitasking slows down the UI" argument is utter bull****. A good OS handles multitasking in a way that doesn't slow down anything. Restrictions are only necessary if the OS itself sucks. A good OS doesn't need them.
The following are the features NEEDED before I adopt WP7 as my new smartphone OS.
1. Rooted device.
2. Rooted windows share Local network access.
3. File explored => than iFile
3. Phone theme app similar to winterboard for iPhone.
4. DLNA in all forms.
5. True windows live Mesh.
6. Zune updated via explorer, no tethered or untethered syncing needed.
7. Push everything.
8. App pirating scene => apptrackr.org for iPhone.
9. Video game console emulation from all the greats.
10. IE download manager.
11. Video chat.
These needs are almost already met with my iPhone. Being a avid windows 7 and windows media center user I can see a huge advantage of adopting WP7. Devs, can u tell me how many features I can check off this list? I know some are possible with 6.x already. Feel free to add to this list for wanted features that are out of the norm.
Also I don't think I like the idea of ROM cooking. I might not understand it though, since ROM means read only memory does it mean that u have to modify your devices os before you install it in your phone? I don't like that at all. I want to be able to modify my os at anytime in explorer like u can with windows 7.
App pirating...oh yeah that's a feature that will be good for the development of the platform. Seesh, people work hard on stuff and generally charge reasonable prices to keep themselves afloat and you demand app pirating!? Dear Microsoft please allow rpoot access to the device so people can find work arounds and steal your client's good work. That's exactly the attitude which stops Microsoft from allowing root access, because its waaaaay to easy to pirate then.
What we really need is a good ad revenue generator (ie Google ads, iAds) so that innovation can be driven by the financial incentive and these guys who dev can get some well earned cash.
Anyways, whats your job? Would you like it if I asked for yur services and then you didn't get paid?
Sorry grouchy this morning. #Rant
Yea. $400 for a phone is fine but then when asked to pay $3 for an app you'll use all the time it's just too much? :facepalm:
......why the hell does a mobile browser need a download manager?
Thats what the iPhone needs to be able to download mp3s or docs from safari. I just want the ability to download a mp3 from the net in the brower and have it show up in my zune media player. The iphone requires a few jailbroken apps to achieve this at the moment.
that's native in the zune music player already you know...
1. Rooted device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought rooting was only used for android. But as far as the unlocking thing, it is device dependent. Several developers are working on finding means to give developers more freedom as well as users with wp7. but it is a work in progress and takes time.
2. Rooted windows share Local network access.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what
3. Phone theme app similar to winterboard for iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this really have to be said? I mean are you looking for an application that will allow user customization of the start menu like winterboard? If so see post 1. to be frank the theming for wp7 so far is okay but nothing as open as windows mobile. But again we have no idea what the device can really do. It is based on what is found and the extent of what development will lead to.
But if you want winterboard...well get the phone that has it
4. DLNA in all forms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again unsure if wp7 can do that. It may be able to but no idea. We don't know
5. True windows live Mesh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't live mesh going to be gone soon?
6. Zune updated via explorer, no tethered or untethered syncing needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dunno if that's really necessary. There may be a program for it most likely. But I don't think its needed in first generation wp7 devices. Heck I much prefer to just drag and drop my files or sync with zune anyway...
7. Push everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not everything has to be push...I think that as far as notification goes push may be a hindrance. I do prefer the old system though
8. App pirating scene => apptrackr.org for iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah this is a fail...
9. Video game console emulation from all the greats.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is developer dependent and its tough to say what the emulation scene will be like...
10. IE download manager.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why!? Seriously why!? sorry but that's retarded. I mean how much are you downloading on your phone right now to substantiate a feature like that. remember, wp is the de emphasis of the phone being a computer but performing some basic tasks like all smart phones can do in a different way.
11. Video chat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could be a developer making something for that. No one knows
As for the things being met for your iphone, keep your iphone =) if you honestly are looking for information on a platform that isn't released, wait a year until wp7 has some options available...
and for the point of not liking rom cooking, do you even know the process? No you don't. May wanna read up on it...
...
IMHO, almost everything you listed I know personally I won't be using my phone for that. I don't mind media centric information but there is overload. For suiting my needs (clinical psychology) I may need to browse some psychology databases, a dedicated pdf reader, an ebook reader, the ability to record notes from class, patient intake, and so on. But again specifics differ according to user of the device.
Thanks for the info domineus, what I mean by "Rooted windows share Local network access." is the abiltiy for my phone's whole file system to show up when I click on the network in explorer on one of the PCs in my house. The iPhone does this with ubuntu when it is jailbroken right now. Also I want the abiltity to telnet/ssh into all my home network PCs to move files around and delete them or whatever. Basicly I want total control of my home network in the command line. This feature is lacking with my iPhone right now. I bet telneting is possible in windows mobile 6.x right now isn't it?
As far as the download manager thing goes. I don't know what u use your phone for but I am constantly getting new mp3s, pics, video, and docs offline everyday. The itunes library on the phone is encrypted right now so u can't just drop and drag in iFile to add to the itunes library. Also the default safari you can't save target as to get the file. I think you can with windows mobile 6.x though, I did it at work once. Half the time I'm not around a pc to sync anyways, I feel like tethered syncing is a chore. I am pretty sure you can't "save target as" in IE with the WP7 emulator.
Yeah Ive decided....you should get the iPhone...Im pretty happy to see how the community goes but for you to make demands a lot of which are stupid or overly tailored to your specific needs and hence serve no purpose on a public forum, well thats pretty darn silly.
gotta agree its a bit solipsistic
especially on a platform that is newly developed and IMHO we have no idea how its going to develop or the clientele requirements
Skatingn330 said:
[...]Also I want the abiltity to telnet/ssh into all my home network PCs to move files around and delete them or whatever. Basicly I want total control of my home network in the command line. This feature is lacking with my iPhone right now. I bet telneting is possible in windows mobile 6.x right now isn't it?[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm, telnet? Yes, through 3rdparty apps of course. Telnet is a very simple thing to use, but you still need somewhere to telnet TO and something responding on the other end (on your computer(s)). So, the "feature" you want is not something that is related to the device, but rather something you need to setup on your LAN. You would only need a telnetapp on your device
Though I must say... Unless I was in a DIRE need for exposing my WHOLE system for outside access I would NEVER even dream of using a telnetserver on ANY of my systems (except on my linuxbox, hehe). Its a disaster waiting to happen There are fare better choices to use than telnet.
Regarding the file-sharing (SMB) you spoke of. Even if we disregard the fact that SMB is not a very secure protocol, the main thing that speaks against that MS would incorporate such a feature is... since MS doesnt even provide filesystem-access ON the device, why should they do it through SMB? I am pretty sure you can forget that one, at least out-of-the-box, maybe if its unlocked and through some obscure 3rdpartyapp.
Just my two cents...
Moving to general.
Skatingn330 said:
The following are the features NEEDED before I adopt WP7 as my new smartphone OS.
1. Rooted device.
2. Rooted windows share Local network access.
3. File explored => than iFile
3. Phone theme app similar to winterboard for iPhone.
4. DLNA in all forms.
5. True windows live Mesh.
6. Zune updated via explorer, no tethered or untethered syncing needed.
7. Push everything.
8. App pirating scene => apptrackr.org for iPhone.
9. Video game console emulation from all the greats.
10. IE download manager.
11. Video chat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Might happen, but a strange requirement
2. Don't understand this one?
3. You're not getting this, the phone don't have a traditional filesystem.
3_. You're not getting this either.
4. Microsoft is a promoter of DLNA
5. It's being merged to SkyDrive, and is supported at launch
6. Won't be possible with the explorer, but it will with the Zune desktop client.
7. The notification-system is based on push.
8. Microsoft is a large company with a long history of anti-piracy. You'll might get in trouble here
9. Write some XNA wrapper for it then!
10. I'd suspect there will be a form of management of downloads and downloaded files.
11. None of the 1. generation phones have a camera on the front side, so you'll have to wait. But software-wise it's supported from day one.
smuppy said:
Though I must say... Unless I was in a DIRE need for exposing my WHOLE system for outside access I would NEVER even dream of using a telnetserver on ANY of my systems (except on my linuxbox, hehe). Its a disaster waiting to happen There are fare better choices to use than telnet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im pretty new to networking but wouldnt using a VPN serve the purpose of what he is wanting? Im not familiar with telnet hardly at all (expect for watching star wars episode 4 that i stumbled across google, haha) but it sounds like a VPN would do what hes looking for. Which WM, the iphone (from what i understand anyways), and im hoping WP7 does. Plus its much MUCH more secure then telnet in even its most basic form of PPTP.
Hi,
i am new in here and just interested in what the new wp7 platform is able to do. I do not want to have a finish solution for it, only to know if it is possibly in general or not. I first would like to focus on two aspects ( other questions are welcomed as well)
I read, that wp7 is based on 6.5 with a few bought in features and that wp7 is quite limited in its opportunities anyway. I am asking that moreover, because microsoft said they will update their system by their own ( so no providers or manufacturers ). Which makes it a very interesting system for me, when it will be supported on the devices for quite long time, and not like the producers do just for a year, so they can sell new phones.
So my questions:
1. will wp7 be able to support a proper offline text to speech function (like in the old voice command)with its new bought in speech recognition. Not online like vlingo or google voice
2. is it possible to integrate a good working mass storage system like on android ( Without registry hacking or something else and not only for music or photos. I mean real data)
I always was a faithfully ms user but with every product i got more and more disappointed and i really would like to give them one more chance, but the device till now is completely not useful. They kicked out everything what was good on windows mobile and brought in everything bad from android and ios. So please tell me that there is still a chance this system will be great one time.
Gesine22 said:
2. is it possible to integrate a good working mass storage system like on android ( Without registry hacking or something else and not only for music or photos. I mean real data)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not?
doministry said:
Probably not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could anybody confirm this.
Actually, I know I will not be able to deal without USB mass storage. I therefore made it a condition whether or not I will keep my WP7 phone.
I like WP7. Still, if I'm sure that it cannot have USB mass storage one day then I will probably move to Android.
arturobandini said:
Could anybody confirm this.
Actually, I know I will not be able to deal without USB mass storage. I therefore made it a condition whether or not I will keep my WP7 phone.
I like WP7. Still, if I'm sure that it cannot have USB mass storage one day then I will probably move to Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't count it out. iPods and other Apple products allow mass storage. I believe MS would too.
Cool. Thanks
It's all speculation, there is zilch of the detailed info from MS on the upcoming update.
They don't want you to fiddle with registry that's a given, so there might be a hack around it, but the recent events surrounding the USB storage registry hacks on the PC suggest MS does not want you to do that if you want to keep your internal system intact on the phone.
Someone posted this comment on Microsoft Answer regarding his Love/Hate relationship with WP7
http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/windowsphone7/thread/cf7a9cc1-47e0-46ca-9d7a-b3601d20f1e6
I am in the same state of mind and fully agree with what is said here.
Considering that none of us here work for Microsoft, we all really have no idea what's possible. So your question is... well... difficult to answer.
The only answer we could possible give to your question is: anything is possible.
Anything Microsoft and it's team decide to do, is certainly possible, and more. The same goes for Apple's team, and Google's team. They can do whatever they want, its their platform, and their money.
Considering that you seem to be missing things from the Windows Mobile platform, since Windows Phone 7 is by the same company that did that platform, then everything you want and suggested is definitely possible. That's the bottom line.
Gesine22 said:
Hi,
i am new in here and just interested in what the new wp7 platform is able to do. I do not want to have a finish solution for it, only to know if it is possibly in general or not. I first would like to focus on two aspects ( other questions are welcomed as well)
I read, that wp7 is based on 6.5 with a few bought in features and that wp7 is quite limited in its opportunities anyway. I am asking that moreover, because microsoft said they will update their system by their own ( so no providers or manufacturers ). Which makes it a very interesting system for me, when it will be supported on the devices for quite long time, and not like the producers do just for a year, so they can sell new phones.
So my questions:
1. will wp7 be able to support a proper offline text to speech function (like in the old voice command)with its new bought in speech recognition. Not online like vlingo or google voice
2. is it possible to integrate a good working mass storage system like on android ( Without registry hacking or something else and not only for music or photos. I mean real data)
I always was a faithfully ms user but with every product i got more and more disappointed and i really would like to give them one more chance, but the device till now is completely not useful. They kicked out everything what was good on windows mobile and brought in everything bad from android and ios. So please tell me that there is still a chance this system will be great one time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, wp7 is not built on 6.5, its new code.
1. Pretty sure the speech to text is built into the phone. Are you talking about something basic like "call Wife mobile" or something more profound like a college dissertation? I haven't tried to push it, but so far it hasn't failed me once.
2. I don't think you will see a real solution for this for quite a while. Microsoft is determined to have you use zune and skydrive for file transfers. I would be suprised to find a solution for this in the next year (other than a hack)
nrfitchett4 said:
2. I don't think you will see a real solution for this for quite a while. Microsoft is determined to have you use zune and skydrive for file transfers. I would be suprised to find a solution for this in the next year (other than a hack)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. They push you to use MS services even if you don't have to.
Just like Google. That's why it's hard to imagine any mass storage soon.
I'm in the same boat.
Why do people want to use their phones for mass storage?
In order to do so, you have to reserve enough space on the phone to carry the files. So if you have a 16GB phone, you may only be able to use 8GB of it for your photos, music, videos etc, in order to keep 8GB free just in case you might want to transport 8GB of data around? Doesn't make sense to me.
All you have to do is use the 32GB memory stick dangling from your keychain, and fill your phone up to the brim with lovely media.
Weirdos!
Every user is different.
Many users will need the USB mass storage.
Whether you use it or not, at least let this option.
It's a smartphone after all.
Jim Coleman said:
Why do people want to use their phones for mass storage?
In order to do so, you have to reserve enough space on the phone to carry the files. So if you have a 16GB phone, you may only be able to use 8GB of it for your photos, music, videos etc, in order to keep 8GB free just in case you might want to transport 8GB of data around? Doesn't make sense to me.
All you have to do is use the 32GB memory stick dangling from your keychain, and fill your phone up to the brim with lovely media.
Weirdos!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To easy and naturally transfer files between PC <> Phone.
And why do you ask this way? It's a personal thing "why". For some it was useful.
This whole mass storage issue is moot! MS have decided that the cloud is the way to go for syncing stuff, a method that I and my friends/ colleagues find very convenient, I do appreciate it might not suit everybody, in which case please do not buy a wp7 phone unless MS change their minds
@ nrfitchett4
Thanks for your answer. To point one i mean, not speech to text. I meant text to speech. I really miss that. I have to cycle or or to walk every day and with every weather. Therefore it is really useful when you phone read your text message or mails, or is saying to you who calls before you always have to get the device out of your pocket. For example when you are wearing gloves. So i have always just use a headset. The voice command for wm worked very well.
@ all others *g*
i think the mass storage problem ist not a problem about storage. I think people do not really understand how deep a software like zune or itunes attacks your personal rights. For the moment it is not that case. But microsoft, apple etc... and their partner companies lets say (sony, universal or what ever exactly know what is on your pc and that fact combined with a tight copyright policy could be quite dangerous for a lot of people. Moreover, they stick you on this way to their system. Its a different if you can not open a specific file on your mobile device because their is no app or whatever for or you even can not download to your device because ms or apple do not like the company who provides these kinds of files.
In addition i do not know where you live but i am travelling a lot by train or stay in urban areas, and than try get a proper internet connection with your phone. Its a disaster. So you can imagine how useful a skydrive is in such a situation.
Further can you imagine a business customer ( who ms wants to reach ) register for a windows live id to download their firm files to the device. I do not. No normal Business user wants to have a zune player to transfer their documents or whatever. Also, ms offers that sharepoint strategy. I really would prefer to have my confidential data on my computer and than on my device.
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But thats all not my question. I just wanted to know if this platform has a real chance ( even most of it must be done by yourself, like on wm, anyway )All forums are full of missing parts on the platform and new ideas, but i would like to know if it will be possible to bring it in again?
So you perhaps should list all the things which will definitely not work (beside flying and cooking *g* )
Gesine22 said:
i think the mass storage problem ist not a problem about storage. I think people do not really understand how deep a software like zune or itunes attacks your personal rights. For the moment it is not that case. But microsoft, apple etc... and their partner companies lets say (sony, universal or what ever exactly know what is on your pc and that fact combined with a tight copyright policy could be quite dangerous for a lot of people. Moreover, they stick you on this way to their system. Its a different if you can not open a specific file on your mobile device because their is no app or whatever for or you even can not download to your device because ms or apple do not like the company who provides these kinds of files.
In addition i do not know where you live but i am travelling a lot by train or stay in urban areas, and than try get a proper internet connection with your phone. Its a disaster. So you can imagine how useful a skydrive is in such a situation.
Further can you imagine a business customer ( who ms wants to reach ) register for a windows live id to download their firm files to the device. I do not. No normal Business user wants to have a zune player to transfer their documents or whatever. Also, ms offers that sharepoint strategy. I really would prefer to have my confidential data on my computer and than on my device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the point and I believe these things will be added.
Cloud is not solution for everything.
Gesine22 said:
@ nrfitchett4
Thanks for your answer. To point one i mean, not speech to text. I meant text to speech. I really miss that. I have to cycle or or to walk every day and with every weather. Therefore it is really useful when you phone read your text message or mails, or is saying to you who calls before you always have to get the device out of your pocket. For example when you are wearing gloves. So i have always just use a headset. The voice command for wm worked very well.
@ all others *g*
i think the mass storage problem ist not a problem about storage. I think people do not really understand how deep a software like zune or itunes attacks your personal rights. For the moment it is not that case. But microsoft, apple etc... and their partner companies lets say (sony, universal or what ever exactly know what is on your pc and that fact combined with a tight copyright policy could be quite dangerous for a lot of people. Moreover, they stick you on this way to their system. Its a different if you can not open a specific file on your mobile device because their is no app or whatever for or you even can not download to your device because ms or apple do not like the company who provides these kinds of files.
In addition i do not know where you live but i am travelling a lot by train or stay in urban areas, and than try get a proper internet connection with your phone. Its a disaster. So you can imagine how useful a skydrive is in such a situation.
Further can you imagine a business customer ( who ms wants to reach ) register for a windows live id to download their firm files to the device. I do not. No normal Business user wants to have a zune player to transfer their documents or whatever. Also, ms offers that sharepoint strategy. I really would prefer to have my confidential data on my computer and than on my device.
-------------
But thats all not my question. I just wanted to know if this platform has a real chance ( even most of it must be done by yourself, like on wm, anyway )All forums are full of missing parts on the platform and new ideas, but i would like to know if it will be possible to bring it in again?
So you perhaps should list all the things which will definitely not work (beside flying and cooking *g* )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree on the points, I could easily see the devices from MS pop-up running WP7 home edition and WP7 business edition if the platform takes off.
doministry said:
That is the point and I believe these things will be added.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Going on statements from the head of WP7 development on why Zune syncing is the only supported scenario, you won't see this options added.
adesonic said:
This whole mass storage issue is moot! MS have decided that the cloud is the way to go for syncing stuff, a method that I and my friends/ colleagues find very convenient, I do appreciate it might not suit everybody, in which case please do not buy a wp7 phone unless MS change their minds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I suppose your company hasn't any policy forbidding to upload any confidential document to a server.
That's fine, but once again, let the choice to other users. It's also a question of freedom. Thanks for respecting this.
Gesine22 said:
In addition i do not know where you live but i am travelling a lot by train or stay in urban areas, and than try get a proper internet connection with your phone. Its a disaster. So you can imagine how useful a skydrive is in such a situation.
Further can you imagine a business customer (who ms wants to reach ) register for a windows live id to download their firm files to the device. I do not. No normal Business user wants to have a zune player to transfer their documents or whatever. Also, ms offers that sharepoint strategy. I really would prefer to have my confidential data on my computer and than on my device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Could not agree more.
I can still sidle load and my phone is still interop unlocked but neither my registry editor nor my advanced configuration editor work. Way to go HTC and MS, pat your selves on the back. I pay $99 dollars a year to have my phone unlocked and to develop apps but I can't even develop useful apps because APIs and restrictions, I can't customize my phone with out hacks, nothing! And to top it all off the phone has very limited functionality. What is MS thinking? I'm seriously thinking about jumping ship after being a loyal Windows Mobile supporter from the very begging. It use to make me sick to think about how flooded the market is with Android phones and now I know why. I can't even come on here and vent my frustrations or voice my opinions without someone getting offended or warned like I'm some child. Granted that all phones have their fails but not as many as this phone, I wish Windows Mobile was still around, imagine a world with no having to have an Windows live account or no complicated Zune, imagine just being able to do what you want or need to do without any limitations or restrictions. Imagine being able to laugh at Android and iPhone users. I honestly don't see Windows Phone 8 being any better at all. Say what you want, lash out at me with your fan boy comments, report me to your MOD but no matter what you say or do at this rate WP will fail.
what is the radio driver version , is it 5.71??
well u cant blame anyone, WP7 is more secure than IOS.
thats a good thing right?
The purpose of paying $99 per year is to develop applications and publish them to the app store.
Being able to sideload for anything other than testing was just a side benefit.
If all you wanted was to side load apps, the ChevRon utility would have been a much better deal. One time fee verses yearly and 10% the cost.
Surprised that the radio drivers are to blame. Unless there was a flaw in them that was being exploited to make the editor.
It is pretty annoying that you can't directly programatically alter the registry.
But, I believe the provisioning methods still work. Just write a C# app that will provision a file. Then have the app generate an xml provisioning string to alter the registry and apply it.
There are ways to read the registry doing the same thing.
I can probably find a link in the Windows Phone 7 development section on how to do this.
I will update with a link if I find something.
Link for an HTC ProvXML importer and Reg to Prov XML convertor: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=907169&highlight=registry
Try searching that forum for ProvXML. There probably are examples. Serach is temporarily disabled. It always around this time of day for about 20 to 30 minutes.
I was afraid of this. The HTC driver updates may have been to v2 and that breaks the interop-unlock ability (such as allowing ACT and Reg Editors to run). This is known and mentioned by Heathcliff.
Magpir said:
what is the radio driver version , is it 5.71??
well u cant blame anyone, WP7 is more secure than IOS.
thats a good thing right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They just fixed an exploit.
Of course it's good to have your own device unlocked, but if Microsoft or HTC wanted you to modify the registry they would have released that feature natively.
For example LG has a native application to do this on their Windows Phones.
I interop unlocked my girlfriend's Optimus 7 the next day she got it in 1-2 mins.
what has the radio got to do with this?
will downgrading radio help then?
I know, it's my fault for being stupid and accepting the update, it's a little faster but I noticed it drains my battery much quicker and it disabled my reg exploits. to be honest I thought it was the keyboard fix but the keyboard seems to be getting worse. Microsoft is not what it use to be, Steve Jobs was right, MS is not original and always steal Apples ideas, why if the thing that made WM better is what is diving Androids success. I went to the T-Mobile store and was tempted to switch but walked out and have not decided yet but I just give up on WP this year if MS doesn't stop being so Communist like.
JVH3 said:
The purpose of paying $99 per year is to develop applications and publish them to the app store.
Being able to sideload for anything other than testing was just a side benefit.
If all you wanted was to side load apps, the ChevRon utility would have been a much better deal. One time fee verses yearly and 10% the cost.
Surprised that the radio drivers are to blame. Unless there was a flaw in them that was being exploited to make the editor.
It is pretty annoying that you can't directly programatically alter the registry.
But, I believe the provisioning methods still work. Just write a C# app that will provision a file. Then have the app generate an xml provisioning string to alter the registry and apply it.
There are ways to read the registry doing the same thing.
I can probably find a link in the Windows Phone 7 development section on how to do this.
I will update with a link if I find something.
Link for an HTC ProvXML importer and Reg to Prov XML convertor: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=907169&highlight=registry
Try searching that forum for ProvXML. There probably are examples. Serach is temporarily disabled. It always around this time of day for about 20 to 30 minutes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately I don't know how to work with ProvXML's. I will check out your link, thanks. do you by any chance know how to change the dark background color back to black using this method?
So you mean to tell me that Windows Phone is actually more secure than the iPhone? God all mighty!! I seriously hope Windows 8 is not as lame as Windows Phone.
sinister1 said:
Unfortunately I don't know how to work with ProvXML's. I will check out your link, thanks. do you by any chance know how to change the dark background color back to black using this method?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just read the thread you sent me and it says that the new drivers also disable this method too.
To the OP, they also fixed a problem, If you ran connection setup with your phone in CDMA mode, it would kill 3G and the only real way to get it back was to hard reset the phone. It also broke those apps too.
To note, I manually installed 8107(last weekend, 3 days before vzw's release) and it did break Advanced Config (could not add more colors but, only had 3-4 extra onces) but, I am still able to sideload as I need. So, I'm not sure if it was the firmware that broke it...
I don't know what the big deal is with MS not letting us to simply personalize our phones? I mean really what is wrong with changing a notification tone, background color or tile color? If they really don't want anyone hacking the phone then simply give us those options. In every update instead of giving us simple features and options that we want all they do is secure the damn phone down even more It's almost like Microsoft wants to fail. Who wants to pay for a phone that is dictated to the point to where you can't even do that? As much as I hate to admit it; Android is coming up more and more when I think about my options.
sinister1 said:
I don't know what the big deal is with MS not letting us to simply personalize our phones? I mean really what is wrong with changing a notification tone, background color or tile color? If they really don't want anyone hacking the phone then simply give us those options. In every update instead of giving us simple features and options that we want all they do is secure the damn phone down even more It's almost like Microsoft wants to fail. Who wants to pay for a phone that is dictated to the point to where you can't even do that? As much as I hate to admit it; Android is coming up more and more when I think about my options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it really comes down to what you can do. Opening up the phone, opens it to hack software to run. So, it opens a world of phones with pirated software on it with nothing MS can do it about it. Not everyone will go this route but, there are people who will not buy anything, and that kills the marketplace and vendors who will add to the marketplace.
As I always say, Pirates will always Pirate, block them and they'll find another way around it. BUT with blocking it makes honest people have a harder time to use their devices or software.
I personally just want to customize my phone and use all the home brew apps but, sad to say they will try to block the honest people just to attempt to stop the pirates...
Back to the subject on hand...
So, Connection setup no longer works (I get a Invalid sim if I go to GSM mode or in CDMA mode, Carrer is not in the database), is it possable to get a older version to sideload that would enable registry edits again ?
DavidinCT said:
I guess it really comes down to what you can do. Opening up the phone, opens it to hack software to run. So, it opens a world of phones with pirated software on it with nothing MS can do it about it. Not everyone will go this route but, there are people who will not buy anything, and that kills the marketplace and vendors who will add to the marketplace.
As I always say, Pirates will always Pirate, block them and they'll find another way around it. BUT with blocking it makes honest people have a harder time to use their devices or software.
I personally just want to customize my phone and use all the home brew apps but, sad to say they will try to block the honest people just to attempt to stop the pirates...
Back to the subject on hand...
So, Connection setup no longer works (I get a Invalid sim if I go to GSM mode or in CDMA mode, Carrer is not in the database), is it possable to get a older version to sideload that would enable registry edits again ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had that problem before, I had to toggle airplane mode and WIFI back and forth until it took.
DavidinCT said:
I guess it really comes down to what you can do. Opening up the phone, opens it to hack software to run. So, it opens a world of phones with pirated software on it with nothing MS can do it about it. Not everyone will go this route but, there are people who will not buy anything, and that kills the marketplace and vendors who will add to the marketplace.
As I always say, Pirates will always Pirate, block them and they'll find another way around it. BUT with blocking it makes honest people have a harder time to use their devices or software.
I personally just want to customize my phone and use all the home brew apps but, sad to say they will try to block the honest people just to attempt to stop the pirates...
Back to the subject on hand...
So, Connection setup no longer works (I get a Invalid sim if I go to GSM mode or in CDMA mode, Carrer is not in the database), is it possable to get a older version to sideload that would enable registry edits again ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The registry being locked down is less to do with piracy than control.
Code for the Windows Phone 7 was not a complete rewrite of the OS. They did reuse much of the old Windows Phone 6.5. They might have reviewed each piece and modified most, but they did reuse code. If they give you or developers control of the registry, then the entire device could be put into a state that would make nothing work. Or worse, your phone could be made to do just about anything in the background without your knowledge.
It's one thing to not allow programmers to access it. It's another to stop users from doing it intentionally. Any user doing it themself, knows the risks. And you can always reset the phone.
This latest lockdown might spur more interest in creating custom ROMs. Not sure if it is even possible yet for things like the Titan 2 and the new Nokia phones. But, this is the site to find out or find people doing it.
Your right I don't think it's possible at least not for the Trophy or CDMA phones at the moment, I guess we are just stuck at the state of sucks. Either way MS isn't making any money with their strategy at all the hold like 1% of the market; if it weren't for their PC sales they would have already went under.
sinister1 said:
Your right I don't think it's possible at least not for the Trophy or CDMA phones at the moment, I guess we are just stuck at the state of sucks. Either way MS isn't making any money with their strategy at all the hold like 1% of the market; if it weren't for their PC sales they would have already went under.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft has alot more products as well. SQL Server, Visual Studio (professionals don't use the express versions), Exchange Server, Office, XBox 360, msdn subscriptions, Skype, etc.
Microsoft makes money on all HTC and Samsung Android sales. Somewhere between $10 to $15 for each Samsung Android Phone and somewhere around $5 to $10 for HTC Android phone from patent licensing.
So, every Android sold helps Microsoft. Hopefully they use those dollars to improve Windows Phone 7.
This is actually the real reason that Microsoft can afford to deliver things a little late and still be OK.
They have a ton of cash flowing in all the time and the competition financially supports them.
I'm guessing that there is still a way using provisioning to affect the registry. When exchange servers push policies down, I thought they did that through provisioning. If exchange can do this, then there should be another way as well.
It's also how custom ringtones were created prior to Mango. It would create a xap to create a program that would write a ringtone file using provisioning. Something similar should be doable for the registry. Doing it this way would require you to use a computer to deploy the changes, but you should be able to make them.
Thaks guys for your feed back and support. If anyone knows a way that I can change my background back to default #FF00000 black now that the registry option is gone; please let me know, I will dontae becuse I have lookd at some Android phones and to be honest they are always pluged in and charging and the only other opption is the iPhone
Hmm.. was about to update and then cancelled it when I read this. Does it add tethering? but since it still lets us sideload... I kind of want to update, I don't do any registry stuff and i can always hard reset to interop unlock again right?
slick13 said:
Hmm.. was about to update and then cancelled it when I read this. Does it add tethering? but since it still lets us sideload... I kind of want to update, I don't do any registry stuff and i can always hard reset to interop unlock again right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it actually does nothing other that updates your radio's firmware and blocks exploits, worth less update unless you travel out of the country. This was lame on HTC and Verizon's part. I hate Verizon, MS should just stop doing business with them.