Lately we have seen many users been scammed over here,, and with the lack of stickies its really difficult to know if the trader was bad or good for scams( had that recently where a member had scammed another member, and then one day he PM'd me asking to trade, but i was aware of it, but others may not be.) no ppl are getting banned who cheat on this forum. We need a mod who has traded before and just for this section, i dont think its hard to have one mod here who can delete threads, ban users who misuse the MP, make stickies on threads which have disputes, he can also act as a middle man if the User's chooses to. if you support me along this road, then please reply so we can have one
I agree. I've done a couple trades both on Hofo and Xda and I feel at times it is really nice to be able to trade, but often worried if the deal will go bad or not. It'd be nice to be able to know if the other person is reputible and if I was talking to another scammer.
It'd be nice to have some sort of system to prevent all the inconsistancy of having shady sellers.
Cheeze[iT] said:
I agree. I've done a couple trades both on Hofo and Xda and I feel at times it is really nice to be able to trade, but often worried if the deal will go bad or not. It'd be nice to be able to know if the other person is reputible and if I was talking to another scammer.
It'd be nice to have some sort of system to prevent all the inconsistancy of having shady sellers.
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yeah we need it, he could also verify the IP address is not of a scammer or near by.
I agree aswell although I've only done two trades here both of which wer successful there's always a bad apple out there ready to scam some unfortunate person and I personally think we should be doing everything we can to prevent it
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
it wont happen, there is no reason for a 3rd party, or a member of xda community to take on that role, and then possibly be at fault.
ie.
why complicate it more than it needs to be.
A feedback system may work, but never a 3rd party.
IMHO.
37 transactions and counting, xda only.
killster
it would be great ive wanted to offer on sum trades just have been kinda checking things out to see who is legit because we know everyone is not trust worthy
I think a Feedback system will be more helpful than moderators. Having feedback and mod will be even better.
Ya we need feedback, it will make checking someones transaction history very easy.
On my Suzuki Hayabusa forum you must have 50 posts to sell something - this is easily done with a simple vbulletin mod. The mod makes it possible for someone with less than 50 posts to browse and post in a thread in the "for sale" forums, but impossible to start a thread. I know you might think it's easy for someone to signup and post 50 times, but members notice that pretty damn quick - and we ban anyone who tries. We also have iTrader (another vbulletin mod) and once a sale is completed one of my Admins will post and ask the buyer and seller to post feedback.
The fact that people sell $6000+ motorcycles makes it a necessity to police and manage the "for sale" forums to the best of our ability for the protection of my members.
But people also sell $20 items, and we ban ANYONE who scams another member - this includes sponsors.
biggeorgef said:
But people also sell $20 items, and we ban ANYONE who scams another member - this includes sponsors.
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i deeply agree with this one , there should be zero tolerance , no posting suspension , no infractions , just insta-ban
pinstack.com has a "trust" meter, I've found it very useful at times. Plus this gives a better all-around feel for someone instead of just what's gone on in the marketplace.
http://forums.pinstack.com/trust.php
How about for now, we try and get people to use HeatWare? You can build a rep that's damn hard to fake.
There is always someone willing to take the role and help out.
Furthermore we have a "thanks" system, so I don't see it being too difficult to add some sort of "trust" system as previously mentioned. Though if there is an acceptable volunteer for thread mod, that would be a good idea too.
I also vouch for heatware. Great service and have used it on many forum trades sections.
or post names of scammers until mods start banning them.
TheAndroider
iDroidfan
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA Premium App
Plus guys get scammed when they do things in private. Keep as much as possible public and you are safer since everyone reads the posts and someone will know if one of the parties is bogus.
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA Premium App
i suggest rules(vBulletin mod) to be able to use marketplace:
1.over 50 posts
2. member for atleast 6months
in addition to:
1.transparency-every single deal should be public, pm's allowed for chatting etc, but all conditions, offers etc will be sellers&buyers thing to do in their thread(go public if you don't wanna get scammed)
2.bans for people (proved)scamming-hasn't been on xda 1 week from bogus deal, didn't respond buyer's PM's, sent fake/empty product etc
3.more mods assinged to this part of forum-"too good to be true" offers will be removed/reported in short period of time, preventing anyone to reply, and could be reactivated when seller responds to mod's pm and proves he's legit and has item for sale(especially first few sales)
4. whitelist of members who made over 20 deals succsessfully in longer period of time, separate items, with higher value(not sending 20 e.g. batteries at once).
killster said:
it wont happen, there is no reason for a 3rd party, or a member of xda community to take on that role, and then possibly be at fault.
ie.
why complicate it more than it needs to be.
A feedback system may work, but never a 3rd party.
IMHO.
37 transactions and counting, xda only.
killster
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Do those 37 count the ones you committed to and then backed out of killster? Seems mlee and i are not the only ones. Not the same as scamming but questionable nonetheless.
As per Marketplacer Rule #1:
The XDA-Developers.com Market Place, hereafter MP, is provided free to members with at least 8 posts at XDA-Developers.com. XDA-Developers.com, its moderators, administrators, owners and legal advisors do not warrant, guarantee or endorse any item offered for sale or trade on this forum.
SIMPLE ENGLISH: Trade at your own Risk.
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We have many Senior moderators who actively monitor the Marketplace forum We don't need anymore.
XDA will not get actively involved in a Marketplace dispute under normal circumstances. And we will never act as a "middle man". The above quoted rule underlines this.
Just to elaborate on what the_scotsman says above.
There are resource issues in providing checks on those trading in the Marketplace. We simply don't have these resources in terms of people to monitor trades, or systems to test or validate Users.
Equally, we do not have the resources to investigate when things go wrong. Inevitably in such cases, there will be conflicting accounts of what has happened and we have no way to prove or disprove the claims that are made by the parties in dispute. This is not an area with which we would ever suggest we can become involved.
Just occassionally we will disable the account of a member if there are repeated claims that purchased items have not been received, but Users should NEVER assume that we are checking sellers, because we are not.
We have no plans to bring in a checking system because with the resources we have, we simply wish to provide a basic noticeboard for sellers and a forum for threads where the transaction can be conducted in public. We do not Moderate the Marketplace except in a very cursory way, because it cannot be done reliably and more importantly it would give the FALSE impression that we were checking and validating the trades and sales in the Forum; in other words it might make buyers feel more secure in buying and yet the risk is ALL theirs.
It may be possible for us to implement some kind of User rating system whereby Users, not Moderators or Admin, can rate a Member according to how well or badly a sale/trade has gone. I understand this is being considered. Nevertheless, it would still be "buyer beware!".
If you are looking to buy and want guarantees and insurance if things go wrong, then our Marketplace Forum is not the place to buy! That said, if you are tempted to buy, then it may be possible for you to carry out some checks yourself, by looking at post history, previous sales if any and perhaps even a few checks using Google. You might also prefer to deal only with Members you have known over many months, even years!
Mike
Related
I was just wondering why isn't there a WTB/WTS portion of the forum? I know its mostly for modding but I believe it will be useful for all of us.
No connection to the site whatsoever without any reliability for the transactions but only for people to post is they want to sell their phones or looking to buy a used one.
I believe the people on XDA-Developers are responsible and I personally would much rather get a phone from someone from here than a random person.
Just a suggestion
agreed
yea, i agreed. im looking for this also...
XDA-Developers doesn't endorse transactions between users. If we created a Wanted to Buy/Wanted to Sell section then it could be taken as implied endoresement.
As long as a user is sellign their own personal devices we will allow it. In fact myself and other Moderators have sold our old devices through the forums.
Well i have seen WTB/WTS posts in the Herald section where i am most of the time, but im also interested in getting a new device and will be much easier to have all WTB/WTS posts in one place. You could add a disclaimer that XDA is free of any liability as to what is being traded.
Just a thought that came through my mind
Thanks for your time
if you sell something
include it in your sig.....so every post you make everyone will see it
Try this thread..hope you may help others & get help in return...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=434069
I agree with kyphur. That can't be done as an official endorsement , if anyone wants to buy sell, he/she may use their own siggies. I got few handsets from here only & sold few ones in the same way. so you can use this thread as well..
edit: added poll
i believe that it would be a really great idea if one new market place subforum is added. this would be dedicated to finding genuinly great deals on phones or services that people normally look for here. there are just too many
a friend was about to pay an absurd $950 (locally)for an xperia 2 weeks ago and i managed to save him more than $250 based on a post (that was actully misplaced)
what do you guys think? please voice your opinion. if there is a lot of interest and if our request is reasonable. im sure the administrators wont ignore it
Some threads already discussing this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=469619&highlight=Selling
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=375362&highlight=Selling
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=336538&highlight=Selling
XDA-Developers isn't a market place and doesn't want to be IMO, we are a development forum. If a Marketplace was setup we would start attracting power sellers and scammers - there's no denying it, you cannot trust anyone on the internet . This would mean xda-developers would then have a responsibilty over what was sold on it's site.
Buying and selling of devices on this forum has caused problems before - a senior member on this forum scammed a number of users by selling devices that didn't exist.
Known users selling a second hand device after an upgrade is allowed (for the moment).
Thanks
Dave
i think the $700 he paid is too much. you can get it for even less from UK shops like expansys or handec or ebay even with shipping put into consideration.
the idea has merit but dave is also making a lot of sense .
mabe we can reach middle ground by creating a new "deals" subforum for all devices. a single subforum should not be that hard to moderatea slickdeals.net type forum is extreemly valuable to far too many people espeically new-comers.
oh and btw its now possible to buy decent wm devices for as litte as $160. pda+keyboard+3.5G+520mhz+wifi http://www.expansys.ae/p.aspx?i=147071
are you sure expansys.ae is not a scam site. a similar phone like this would cost about 2-3 times as much
i just added a poll in hope that this will give the admins a better idea what people want.
i just find it a bit unbalnced that there are so many uneeded forums (like accssories subforum for EACH phone that was ever created while something as usuful as this does not get a forum based on the ASSUMPTION that it will be abused.
how about they create a forum for a test period and if it proves to be problamatic the admins remove it.
As posted before
Already are threads regarding this
what i am asking for is a toned down vesion of what what asked before
-im not asking a per device forum.
-not asking forum wtb/wts forum.
im just asking for a single test forum that will help people find good deals on wm all smartphones. the moderators are already handling over 50 subforums. is one extra really a big deal??!!
now if only i could get more people to vote too see how other people feel about this
THE GRIZZ said:
i just find it a bit unbalnced that there are so many uneeded forums (like accssories subforum for EACH phone that was ever created while something as usuful as this does not get a forum based on the ASSUMPTION that it will be abused.
how about they create a forum for a test period and if it proves to be problamatic the admins remove it.
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To be fair, if you look at who it is that's saying "it's been talked about before, and we think that the idea is problematic and we don't really want it to become a marketplace" you might notice one significant fact that i believe you are overlooking. That fact is that we're talking about some of the more significant, long-term contributors to the forum, and people who have actually talked to the site admin before and know the owner's/admin's feelings about the matter. The issue isn't that we can't handle one more sub-forum, or even 10 more for that matter, but rather what that sub-forum will contain. You have not even been a member one month, and I in no means intend to put you down, but believe me when i say that if you spend the next year learning and contributing here on the forum, you will have a much different perspective than you do now.
There are already marketplace forums in existence but it does not belong here. Personally, I do not agree with people creating threads selling their devices on here. Many of us remember the Cuboosh scams that took place a short while ago and many considered him a valued member to this community prior to his shady activities.
In addition, I am undecided whether I agree with people linking their eBay listing here. If you want to promote more attraction to your listing do it elsewhere.
Below is a handy website that does have marketplace deals for many items. If you want to add deals on win-mo devices to their forums feel free too.
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/13-bargain-websites-that-are-cheaper-than-ebay/
Similar Story
A friend of mine is a mod on a site that has fairly heavy trading of sports cards and other collectibles. Admittedly that site is largely focused on that activity, or at least it has become a major focus over time (I'm not a member and have no part in it, so I admit, I know little of it's history).
He's told me a number of times about complications with scammers, and even repeat offenders who return even after being banned numerous times, which has even forced the site to have more moderators to manage scammers than mods for thread problems. To my knowledge (and logic), the site only supports people trading within the United States, which obviously has stricter laws and enforcement on mail scams than there are for international situations. Despite all of their efforts, they still have people trying to rip off others all the time. Given the nature of how easy it is to set up a website that even looks legit, plus crossing international lines in many cases, this site would be inviting the worst kind of activity where people would be spending large amounts on electronics that will never be delivered.
There's already a pretty good standard of people searching around and asking the forum if others have dealt with a specific site/seller before....which seems to usually just get more people suggesting expansys (why oh why can't there be a decent seller in the US?)
270 views and only 12 votes.im quite surprised with the level of interest of this idea.this does not look like it will fly here
are there any other good sites that provide for what im asking?
I've only been a member a couple of weeks (lurked previously) but like mentioned above, I see this forum as a development/support tool, not a marketplace. It's a place people come to learn about a device they've already got, or are getting. I undertand the reasoning behind your suggestion, but there are many, many other sources of purchase information/price comparison sites on the internet. I spent weeks researching prices before deciding on how to buy my Touch HD and to be honest, on that particular point, this site didn't really enter into it. It does now, obviously.
There are many sites in the UK that compare mobile phone prices, whether they be handset only, pay as you go, or monthly contract. I'm surprised there aren't similar sites elsewhere in the world.
I cannot vouch for any of these sites, use at your own risk, etc, etc, but I used them during my search for the best package:
http://www.mobiles.co.uk/
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/MobilePhones/default.aspx
http://www.mobile-phones.co.uk/
http://www.dialaphone.co.uk/compare_phones.html
THE GRIZZ said:
.this does not look like it will fly here
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it flew check the new section
No one is allowed to say XDA Developers is resistant to change ever again.
JimmyMcGee said:
No one is allowed to say XDA Developers is resistant to change ever again.
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Can I have an Omnia forum then, please
Dave
DaveShaw said:
Can I have an Omnia forum then, please
Dave
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I reject your change and substitute my own!
The Marketplace section of XDA has been only open for a short time. There are currently 8 potential users in our community who have been ripped off and may not be capable of receiving their payments back and/or punishing the people that scammed them. There also exist a number of buyers that await their devices to be received but the sellers have not contacted them.
There are several benefits of selling on XDA and there are many drawbacks. Please let me remind you that this is a developers (or those interested in the processes, aka users like me) forum. Please take the time to reflect the benefits and the drawbacks and vote.
I know the poll results will lean towards keeping the Marketplace open because those who visit this section on a regular would want to keep using it as a resource. Yet there are many on this site that still do not have any idea that this marketplace exist, simply because they bookmark their device's section.
Please vote after reading the Fraud Thread,Thank You.
If you have new guidelines that will help deter criminals from scamming our members please post. Please note, your suggestions may be criticized.
My vote to third option. I dont believe in throwing the baby with the bath water. Everything faces problem in the beginning, so is this marketplace. Let's make it a better place.
Just because the Marketplace isn't open doesn't mean XDA won't be used for transactions between users. With the Marketplace, the transactions are more public and I bet that being open and public actually cuts down on scams.
|Jason8| said:
Just because the Marketplace isn't open doesn't mean XDA won't be used for transactions between users. With the Marketplace, the transactions are more public and I bet that being open and public actually cuts down on scams.
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I completely agree with your opinion. What do you think about banning device sale transactions altogether?
Just like XDA bans warez but obviously users can PM each other regarding warez.
I would think that there is a way to keep the market section open, yet make it safer. I don't think it is XDA's responsibility to make sure every transaction is 100% safe, not even eBay can do that. I don't even think it is responsible to go above and beyond "buyer/seller beware". But I know this communitty and to simply leave it at "stock" isn't an option.
It has proven true that it is hard to identify a good scammer. Post counts, length of membership, and so forth have all proven indicators of trustworthiness, but not a guarantee. And while a guarantee surely isn't possible in reality, I know it is always the goal of those in this communitty to get it right and as close to perfect as possible.
I am currently trying to sell a couple phones, and half my worry is that people have enough trust and faith in me to feel comfortable buying from me. The other half is that I find a legit buyer. I can't even image being the actual buyer!
I feel that stricter guidelines and oversight will go a long way, although likely more time consuming as well. Perhaps making it so new listings have to get approved? And setting criteria for approval asking for photographic proof that the item exists? As well, maybe create an XDA paypal account, where the buyer pays XDA, and upon shipping confirmation/ receipt confirmation the funds are then transfered to the seller? This would put a lot of liability on XDA, which might not be plausable.
Ultimately, buyer and seller beware is and always will be the most important rule.
may555 said:
Although opening the market place means that many problems exist,which is seller make slow response to buying,I may strengthen to monitor.Opening the market place may improve the dynamic of the forum.
If you want to savvy more information about mobile phone, please come to [scamlink]
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And you give a link to a Kirf phone site... shakes head... maybe we can also look into strengthening membership requirements/ process?
XDA can't take guarantee for anything that happens in marketplace, that is something ebay doesn't take inspite of such a heavy fee amount they charge. I feel xda is the best way to share things like pocket pc phones in like minded people to get the get value for both buyer & seller. It would be there no matter you have the marketplace or not. Marketplace has provided outlet to all such dealings.
We can ponder over how to make it more secure, but giving marketplace an existential threat is not I am in agreement with.
Marketplace open!!
As I said before,
All transactions between particulars on the WWW have some risk.
If you are not willing to take that risk please do not use marketplace and go and buy to a regular store!
You should be aware that if you want to buy cheap there is always a risk!
Let´s continue with marketplace!!
I noticed that some other sites require you to have a certain post count before posting/viewing the market place. This could cut the scammers out as it would require them to first be active in the community before being able to post.
Keep the market place.. I have used it for purchasing more than 1 phone, and lucky for me, my experiance here has been fantastic... I think people should pay for their transactions using a credit card... even with PayPal.. You can pay with credit card there.. That way if you are scammed and do no receive what you payed for, open up a dispute with both your credit card company as well as paypal.. evne if paypal can not "collect" anything, you credit card can cancel the transaction all together and take the money from paypal... (which will, in turn, make them want to look for the money a little harder, and even possibley bring up legal action againt the fraud monger!) In closing, KEEP THE MARKET PLACE...
I totally agree with 'Teej53214' and have voted for option 1.
I don't see why XDA should shoulder any responsibilty, nor have to police the marketplace,
since with all online dealing it is the buyers responsibility, not XDA's, to take adequate steps to protect himself.
as such, using a credit card is far the best way.
Yes, but at what point? A spammer will get a couple hundred posts in a few minutes, where as a legit member might not in a couple years.
As well, one of the most infamous scams thus far was carried out by a member with over 1000 posts, and 2 years of community involvement.
I noticed that some other sites require you to have a certain post count before posting/viewing the market place. This could cut the scammers out as it would require them to first be active in the community before being able to post.
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there already is a post count limit, i.e 30+ Posts, a seller less than post isent allowed to sell, and his thread is deleted
Ather said:
there already is a post count limit, i.e 30+ Posts, a seller less than post isent allowed to sell, and his thread is deleted
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Can we not delete it? Someone may suggest a new guideline, which could be useful for both seller/buyer
I may be new here, but i feel i'll be around for a while. I feel the Market Place is a great idea for everyone, but some guildlines should be improved for everyoens experience.
I feel that the suggestions (option 3?) would to invoke a Post Count Requirement, but to add to this a review (to enter into the market place) must be made by an admin to make sure all posts to that post count are not spam to scam.
I also feel that the market place should incorporate some kind of market system. I know there's plugins for vBulletin that would allow such a thing, or better yet, force all users to mediate through another site for sales (eBay?). This way we'll know they're scammers...
ie if someone posts a acution on eBay for the sole purpose to sell an item (Buy it now at discolsed price in forum) and they're new user on eBay then more caution flags are thrown up... (Could use many other auction sites, etc).
Edit:
Maybe enforce some kind of physical conversation about products as well, phone call, etc?
Just my $.02
Keep it open.
I agree with what has been said. Use Paypal with a Credit card. Ivé have to open a dispute (not here) via Paypal and in the end I just contacted my credit card holder that refunded the payment.
Force users to have X many posts, visits or time from registering+posts before they can post in the marketplace.
skuliaxe said:
Keep it open.
I agree with what has been said. Use Paypal with a Credit card. Ivé have to open a dispute (not here) via Paypal and in the end I just contacted my credit card holder that refunded the payment.
Force users to have X many posts, visits or time from registering+posts before they can post in the marketplace.
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As Ather stated, there is a 30 post count limit. I do not see it documented anywhere maybe I skipped over it. Anyhow, I am positive there is a vbulletin plugin or add-on that restricts users under a set limit of posts to be capable of accessing the marketplace section.
redbandana said:
As Ather stated, there is a 30 post count limit. I do not see it documented anywhere maybe I skipped over it. Anyhow, I am positive there is a vbulletin plugin or add-on that restricts users under a set limit of posts to be capable of accessing the marketplace section.
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Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
12aon said:
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
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Click to collapse
I would like to repeat my suggestions: I was once really involved at notebookreview and this is how we ran things
1. Require a set form for selling and buying. http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=243274
2. Require a picture with proof of ownership. (a photo of the item with a piece of paper containing the username and a dated newspaper)
3. Require feedback sources: Amazon, ebay, heatware.
4. Reference previous sales. (some sort of internal feedback system)
I think this can help make the Marketplace a bit safer to everyone involved.
12aon said:
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both of those could be restrictive to real sellers, and not actually scare off scammers.
The spam guys will get a couple hundred posts really quickly. If you toss in a 1 year time limit type thing, then people that are active, like me, wouldn't even be able to sell because I haven't been a member for over a year.
I think we should ask sellers to post at least 5 pics, with their username and a newspaper pictured in one. As well, they need to send their contact info to the section mod. They also need to put a random word picked by the mod and PM to them on the piece of paper with their username on it. Only then would the post actually be made public.
As well, you can ask that they also have shown themself a member of this community, either through length of time here, post count, etc., but subject to the mods descretion.
I apologize that I don't have that many posts to my credit but I refuse to go around the forums adding nonsense to each one when I can just learn and be kinda quiet from reading and understanding. I do have a few posts and have been a member for over a year now and have also sold my AT&T Tilt successfully on here about a yr ago. Now because of the crooked ppl on here that scam others, I am not allowed to do business in the marketplace because I haven't posted enough??? I'm sorry but that's being very stereotypical and really sucks because many jr members that have been here for quite sometime prolly have more couth than some of the ppl that have been here for a while and just solicit the hell outta xda. I'm not trying to start any arguments or anything, but I just think it's unfair and something more should be done to make it fair. Thanks and I hope that this is taken into consideration because I do have another phone I would like to put up for sale on here and I do have a 100% positive sales history on here.
Thats ultimately going to pay you in future. Believe me this rule is good for all of us. Contribute something good to the forums & you will find it not so difficult. Thats how we can make this place a safer haven for pocket pc users. Good Luck.
mreusswig said:
I apologize that I don't have that many posts to my credit but I refuse to go around the forums adding nonsense to each one when I can just learn and be kinda quiet from reading and understanding. I do have a few posts and have been a member for over a year now and have also sold my AT&T Tilt successfully on here about a yr ago. Now because of the crooked ppl on here that scam others, I am not allowed to do business in the marketplace because I haven't posted enough??? I'm sorry but that's being very stereotypical and really sucks because many jr members that have been here for quite sometime prolly have more couth than some of the ppl that have been here for a while and just solicit the hell outta xda. I'm not trying to start any arguments or anything, but I just think it's unfair and something more should be done to make it fair. Thanks and I hope that this is taken into consideration because I do have another phone I would like to put up for sale on here and I do have a 100% positive sales history on here.
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Have a deep read here and you´ll understand why not jr members
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=559465
mreusswig said:
I apologize that I don't have that many posts to my credit but I refuse to go around the forums adding nonsense to each one when I can just learn and be kinda quiet from reading and understanding. I do have a few posts and have been a member for over a year now and have also sold my AT&T Tilt successfully on here about a yr ago. Now because of the crooked ppl on here that scam others, I am not allowed to do business in the marketplace because I haven't posted enough??? I'm sorry but that's being very stereotypical and really sucks because many jr members that have been here for quite sometime prolly have more couth than some of the ppl that have been here for a while and just solicit the hell outta xda. I'm not trying to start any arguments or anything, but I just think it's unfair and something more should be done to make it fair. Thanks and I hope that this is taken into consideration because I do have another phone I would like to put up for sale on here and I do have a 100% positive sales history on here.
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I am glad you were capable of selling your device successfully. You must be an honest person. However, what if you were on the buyer end of the transaction and you did not receive the device? What if you received a big candle in a box opposed to the Tilt?
Personally I feel if you did not record the mailing and the unboxing of the package, emails and private messages, you would be out of luck.
There are many places on the internet to conduct your business other than xda. The Marketplace is for members who use and contribute to the forum.
This is a phone development forum and we have no solid way to know who's legit and who's a scammer who has an account, so we do the best with what we have. And the best way to help protect the users of this site, is to only allow users who have a few contributions and have an account that's been open a while.
Thanks
Dave
I'd like to contribute more, but...
I'd really enjoy contributing more to a forum like this but as I am learning more about these devices, maybe in the future I will be more of a contributor than a student and just searching and trying out the different stuff you guys provide here. Again, I appreciate your responses and all but I also saw a lot of what if's and so on, only meaning one thing. A few bad apples ruined it for the rest of us and that's a shame, but I guess it is in fact reality. Anyways, here's another post towards me being able to do business in the market place lol. How many posts until I am able to sell my phone now? Thanks again.
Its not about certain experiences. Whenever we start a venture we set rules of conduct so we could avoid problems at max. Thats what XDA staff did. Its for all of us. As Redbandana said, imagine being at buyers side you would really not like to have this rule infringed. Moreover even on the side of seller you should avoid dealing with people with low posts, I did that mistake & found myself in barrage of allegations, I sold something to someone & after a week buyer is coming out with allegations rather than proof. I have learnt a lesson from that.
Good Luck contributing to the forum. Cheers.
Hey, you're a senior member in your own right. Just say thanks on the threads you have downloaded from, and provide some feedback...30 posts is nothing.
And true, post count doesn't really say much...I have read much without posting too.
Lumic said:
Hey, you're a senior member in your own right. Just say thanks on the threads you have downloaded from, and provide some feedback...30 posts is nothing.
And true, post count doesn't really say much...I have read much without posting too.
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My eye is on you, boy! Instead of cluttering might as well help out! I'm checking up members with minimal post count not having a very long membership. If I find too much clutter, away with you. Come on, these rules are there to protect the people in this community, don't encourage sleazy ways to be able to post in the market place. It's not that hard to find a way to help out!
Hey ive just joined this site and i must say its tops. And yes i agree that with a site as this you have to be both safe and fair as there are some shady people out there who would love to ruin the good work put into this site.
glad you like it
netgod said:
Hey ive just joined this site and i must say its tops. And yes i agree that with a site as this you have to be both safe and fair as there are some shady people out there who would love to ruin the good work put into this site.
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have fiun and enjoy or site
Post Count doesn't really tell you much. Quite honestly, I would suggest that if the member is not a know entity among the crowd, just make the sale / purchase via eBay. It's quick, it's simple and it's safer than sending money to somebody that you know absolutely nothing about.
I recently made a purchase from a fellow XDA member with about 60 posts. To be honest I was extremely apprehensive, but I did some digging around and eventualy realised he's a very sweet guy. While that worked for me, it doesn;t necessarily have to work for everyone. If you are in doubt, ask the seller to put it up on eBay and get it from there.
My 2 cents.
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Well, let me give you a perspective of a GIMP team member.
All the great free end-user software projects I can think of became great, because developers were communicating to users who thought along the same lines.
And it's the best way to work on a project, because you keep interacting with people and improving your work, while still belonging to yourself.
What happens when you let democracy in? Ugly mess. Suddenly people start treating you like you owe to them and should bow to their wishes.
— Hey developer, I used to use X application on Windows. I want the Y feature to be like in that app. What do you mean, it's supposed to work differently? Well, make it an option, you idiot.
— Hey developer, there is this app for Mac that's a bit like your app, except it's for a different target group, different use cases and different task applications. But I want one of its tools implemented verbatim anyway. And I want it now. Not going to? Well, I'm a user, and you should be listening to me!
That's just bull****. Please keep your democracy to yourself.
If you want some free software to change, learn to encourage, learn to make well-fitted proposals that make sense, learn to understand design decisions, but also learn to accept that the developer is the one who has the final saying, because (s)he's the one who's responsible, not you.
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Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
Someone must be dumb to believe those 2 words.
I say, it will not be released.. it's been +/- than 2 years now.. i got my screen shattered and usb broken.. keep waiting guys
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We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
<Insert non-native English speaker disclaimer here for the grammar Nazis>
I haven't been a member here until recently, but i do appreciate and understand what you're saying. It's been an issue lately. But in fairness to the mods (here in ot and my home forum) they have been very responsive in terms of identifying those people who abuse their, shall we say, democracy. The mods have been extremely helpful and easily accessible imho. I just wish other new members like me understand what xda is about and adapt to it. As we all know, veteran members and admins/mods can only do so much...
Please give credit where credit is due..
If you can't even search how can I help you??
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand. If Admins really wanted to fix this problem, then they'd be banning like crazy, and making the forum private, but they can't do that can they?
Not trolling, just my opinion on the issue.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
trell959 said:
And I still don't understand why people still open these kinds of threads. Opening a thread and ranting over everything that's wrong with xda is just pointless. It's a public forum, it's bound to happen. That's just my stand.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
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The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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I completely understand, I was just giving my opinion.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Rick_1995 said:
The purpose of this thread is to express my opinion just like your post does regarding such threads, this is what off topic is for, "everything else". I totally understand you but since a last few days i was in the same state of leaving or becoming inactive here solely due to such incidents and thought even if i do leave, i should leave a nice explanation what drove me to do that (though i seem to have changed my mind). Your opinion is always welcome.
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Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
The state of XDA is a reflection of the average android user. As adoption rates grow there will only be more average Joes coming here for help. And they want help now dammit!
I completely agree... Now registration should be on invite only basis
- - Greetings From India
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Hmm, "Anything not related to the phones" and off-topic looked more tempting than "about xda-developers" at first glance, though i agree i might have failed here.
Babydoll25 said:
Well, technically this should go in "about xdadevelopers" so expect posts that you don't like here. This is off topic. It's what we do here
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using xda premium
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Amen.
Now for my opinion on it all
Granted I haven't been on this site very long at all, but I'd been lurking and reading tons on here from early 2010-ish.
Whilst I agree with your point that this may not be the site it used to be, that's also a good thing.
It's showing progression and moving forward.
People who come to this site simply looking to make their phone "cool" and make it do what there friends' phones can't do, annoy each and every one of us at times. That's just something that we've got to deal with.
It's not as if this is the only site where people act like that. It's all based on the mentality of people in general.
There are those, who like us, don't just want to make our devices better, but want to actually learn how it's all done and what makes android, as a whole, work.
But there will always be those who don't care about the journey, as they just want to reach the destination.
And even though there are a ton of the latter around, creating a thread to say that the site's gone downhill because of these people, won't help in the slightest. And considering leaving this site just because of a few dicks? Leave them to it. They'll soon be shown the door if they consistently can't stick to the forum rules.
There's no sense in feeling like you have to leave or others have had to leave because of these people.
Obviously I'm not saying you can't voice your opinion, but there are better ways of doing it to be honest.
But having said that, I respect your opinion
As this thread is "about xda developers", as mentioned above that would be the correct forum for this discussion so I'll move it there.
I completely agree with the Op...
Haven't been around long, but was always fascinated with technology and had a certain respect for those who made possible the things I thought wouldn't be possibly done...
I've heard plenty about the good ole XDA, of how devs used to work with harmony, how they worked because THEY themselves wanted to...and not because of "helppp, my wifi broke, plz fix asap"...
But my bad luck, I wasn't there to witness any of it...
Well the mods and admins know of this issue, and there's only so much one could do to solve it...
Apart from making XDA invite only, and GTFO'ing every noob already present, there seems to be no practical reason that I can think of...
There have been other rather innovative attempts at tackling this noob problem; (as that's what seems to be the root cause of this problem);
Some say we should raise the 10 post limit, some say we put tests/checks to make sure new users understand the purpose of XDA, some say we do aptitude tests to classify users as "devs" and "non devs" and some say to educate everyone already present and yet to come...
I say that we could all of this and still be left wondering what possibly could be done...
You see, part of this problem comes from human nature...
Everyone wants the most utility from the least effort...
They want the best, but aren't ready to give their best...
As smartphones become more and more common & more and more "smart", the people get lazier and dumber...
There is no possible humane approach to making people work for their own self...
You could help them out, point them in the right direction...but for every one person that you help out, there'd be 10 standing with the same problem expecting a personalized response...
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
tl;dr: It's my rant over what xda is today.
I've been a user of this site for a some time now (well not that long either but since winmo 5.0 days). A lot of things i know today are solely due to XDA. It was a fantastic place to meet helpful and knowledgeable people and learn new things then.
However, as of late, XDA is attracting a lot of average joe(s) who would normally be busy in their life but come here to get the most out of their phones. As a result this site has been turned into something full of senseless/unecessary posts. Posts which are full of ETA/feature demands and what not (I've even read people having personal discussions in a kernel thread and then flame on people who report them though I am not aware of what followed that). Most users demand something from their own point of view instead of looking at the collective impact of a certain feature. As of recently, i wanted to look at some code that had been published here on xda, and as usual i did a forum search.. Result ? I was bombarded with enough senseless crap to make me quit my attempts and start from scratch. Maybe my search terms would have been a bit off but considering the amount of such unhelpful posts makes me think about the usefulness of this site today compared to the irc chat rooms which are still a bit less frequented by such people.
I am watching as developers that have contributed so much to this site be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by rude "senior" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA, Though I totally understand how newbs get on the nerves asking stuff repeatedly, not searching the forums before posting, creating posts in the wrong forum, asking for eta, development requests etc and even more so since i compiled my first android rom and decided i should share it here. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms instead of being happy with what they have. Another part of the story is that these users are the ones who help us find bugs and issues in our code but sadly the number of such users is quite small compared to "XYZ NOT WORKING, FIX IT. INCLUDE ABC IN THIS". There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I'm sure XDA is not alone, here is a true gem i found on google plus from one of the gimp developers.
Here's an anonymous quote from one of such incidents, On one of a quite famous software threads here, the developer was inactive or rather busy with other projects and "life" (Even though he has been keeping up to date via twitter with pics of the update and is of course present on irc channels). And as we expected there were ETA demands, and then this
We can certainly not blame the site admins or the mods, though i do hope to see better management for the development sub-forums (even after iron fist). I hope to see XDA become a community again which it once was, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
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I couldn't agree with you enough. I'm absolutely sick of all the hate mail that I get saying stuff like "xyz doesn't work u suck" and "hurry up and add abc to this!".
Seriously, many of the members here are complete a$$e$ that don't give a crap about the work devs do and just want the best for their phone. And if something doesnt work or a feature is not added yet, they start complaining and flaming devs. One of the great dev teams for my phone actually stopped development because of all the hate mail and ungrateful members who complained about their work. On Twitter a person even told the team "you should be embarrassed as dev team" when he asked a question that was answered at least 15 times!
I really hope that the spirit of collaborating and learning comes back to xda....
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
a.cid said:
I frankly found no solution to end this "I'm your boss, answer me coz you owe me" behaviour...
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I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
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The mods have said before, and I don't think that their answer will change...mod rights shall not be given to any user, whether limited or unlimited...
Rd's get rights to close their own threads, while Rc's have such rights only in Rc Chat, and not anywhere else...
Idk about Rd's, but they have turned down our request for the same...
If you need thread maintainence/cleanup, the only option is to report a post, and request cleanup...
- Via xda premium
Rick_1995 said:
I wonder why doesn't the thread owner get (limited) moderator rights in his own thread, that would make the job easy at least for development forums, In some low activity devices, we hardly see a mod ever come to clean things up so this would be lot helpful and since this power is limited to development sub forums, it probably won't be abused that much by the new guys hopefully, though i haven't thought of any draw backs in this model but it sure does sound good.
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Click to collapse
This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
reinbeau said:
This is what the report button is for. If you see something anywhere on the site that you think needs attention, hit that button! Please let us know. We can't be everywhere. The Forum Specific Mod that's assigned to that forum will respond. That's what we're here for, but you guys, you're our eyes, too. If we all work together we can get those little fires under control to prevent the big forest fire
I do know that the report function has been removed from the app. In that case, it takes only moments to switch to the web view and use the report function from there. It wasn't my decision to remove that function, however, a new system is being developed for the app and the functionality will be restored with a future version.
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Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
Rick_1995 said:
Yes, The report button is indeed helpful but in low activity forums mods are very infrequent, and in high activity forums, it's near to impossible for them to clean threads also reporting multiple posts in a single thread is a tedious issue.
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This shouldn't be the case, all reports should be actioned in a timely manner irrespective of the forums activity level. If you feel a report has gone unactioned for too long (give us at least 24-48hrs ) then either contact the appropriate forum moderator directly or a senior.
As for reporting multiple posts, to put it simply, don't. Just report and mention that some cleaning may be required.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
Henry_01 said:
I'm agreeing with all whats posted here. And it's driving me crazy too.
I hope I made a statement in my forum (see here).
I hope there will come a solution for this "problem" as forums are getting filled with crap a lot.
Reporting isn't an option, useless posts are created faster then the speed of sound
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I can assure you, reporting posts IS the answer. Well, part of it anyway....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....