Guys,
I have been using HTC devices for many years now:
Pison 5MX, HP Jornada 720, HTC Alpin, HTC Trinity, HTC Kaiser and HTC Polaris!
The form factor of the new TP2 is brilliant.
HOWEVER, the keyboard is just not designed very efficiently for me because it is half of the size of the total width. Which means that the rear part is not used for the keyboard.
I would have preferred a FULL keyboard such as the one on the HTC Universal or on the Psion 5MX or Jornada 720!
I don't understand the point of designing a PDA with a built-in keyboard if the keyboard is just too small which makes it even not usuable. The one on the Kaiser was so small.
HTC produced the Universal with a full sized keyboard using the full width of the screen.
Why not on the newest models?
Any ideas?
I've had a few thoughts being a long time mini-keyboard user...
It's true that a bigger keyboard can make things easier, but for typing with your thumbs, too big is also a problem due to limited reach.
Typing with a Psion 5 was not great with two thumbs, and with a phone you want to type on the go, so this is more important than 2 handed typing while at a desk / other solid surface. As most people want to carry their phone with them a Psion 5 sized phone would not be too popular!
Having a full width & height keyboard while keeping the ability to put the keyboard away (for touch screen only use) will usually require a bulky tilt & twist hinge (like on Zaurus C series, Clie UX / NX, or HTC universal), which means the screen has to be smaller / narrower. Quickly sliding out a keyboard to hammer out a text is faster than opening and then twisting a hinge.
The Kaiser keyboard was fantastic in my opinion - I could type very quickly on it, probably not far off my Psion 5 speed (as when you didn't hit the Psion keys in the centre, they did not always work).
Have you any ideas for achieving a bigger keyboard without compromising on the screen size, usability or overall size of the phone?
I don't have a problem with the Keyboard size at all. I think it's just about perfect. My problem is the fact that they made the buttons much bigger and removed 10 keys from the original touch pro. Yeah, It makes it easier for some, but I know I'd rather have the keys. The keyboard still would have had really big buttons.
As a happy Universal owner I understand very well the point of sayborg.
As far as I know the only devices with great keyboards are:
Universal
Advantage
Shift
Toth (New)
But the last 3 options are too big...
I´m in the same interrogant? I want/need to upgrade my 2005 Universal but nothing I can see in the near future as a REAL replacement
TP2 is the closer one I can think
Hope HTC have some secret devices on that form factor, but I doub it
I don't know what to think about the keyboard yet. The buttons feel good, not slippery. The number keys at the top are a pain in the ass because the lip of the top layer is slightly overlapping making it just annoying enough to bug me. On screen keyboard is pretty tight. No complaints there.
DavidMc0 said:
I've had a few thoughts being a long time mini-keyboard user...
It's true that a bigger keyboard can make things easier, but for typing with your thumbs, too big is also a problem due to limited reach.
Typing with a Psion 5 was not great with two thumbs, and with a phone you want to type on the go, so this is more important than 2 handed typing while at a desk / other solid surface. As most people want to carry their phone with them a Psion 5 sized phone would not be too popular!
Having a full width & height keyboard while keeping the ability to put the keyboard away (for touch screen only use) will usually require a bulky tilt & twist hinge (like on Zaurus C series, Clie UX / NX, or HTC universal), which means the screen has to be smaller / narrower. Quickly sliding out a keyboard to hammer out a text is faster than opening and then twisting a hinge.
The Kaiser keyboard was fantastic in my opinion - I could type very quickly on it, probably not far off my Psion 5 speed (as when you didn't hit the Psion keys in the centre, they did not always work).
Have you any ideas for achieving a bigger keyboard without compromising on the screen size, usability or overall size of the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the comments guys!
Well, for me, it would have been nicer to keep the SAME size of the current TP2 but with a wider keyboard, this wouldn't make the device bigger because the rear part/surface of the keyboard is even not used. A wider keyboard wouldn't cost more and wouldn't be heavier.
I thing the problem is that the producers of such devices are usually not consumers. I doubt that poeple who have designed such devices have as much usage experience as us. They sometimes lack of subtilty I think.
I also think that there is no perfect repalcement of the HTC Universal which is sad.
There is also the Acer M900 which has an OK keyboard but it is not tilting and again the keyboard is not designed efficiently/optimally for me but again this is a personal opinion!
For me there is no point to have a 2,8 " PDA whith a build-in keyboard. Keys are just to small...
Maybe one day, we will see the perfect HTC Device...
sayborg said:
Maybe one day, we will see the perfect HTC Device...
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It's true that we aren't there yet, but as far as hardware I think the Rhodium is getting pretty dame close. Huge screen, sturdy construction, physical slideout keyboard, and a large enough screen that the onscreen finger keyboard is very usable. These are many things that I've been waiting for. The only thing that can make the design better is to make it thiner which will take so time in tech advancement.
I still think they shouldn't be losing some of the buttons they had on the titan/tilt style phones (d-pad and soft key hardware buttons). However, I'm probably not giving the usability of the touch interface enough credit.
As long as the software is up to par (hadware acceleration and strong usability) then it's all gravy. This is the device I've been waiting for for a long time. I'm also thinking that once it's been out a year or so The Android roms for it will be pretty advanced and very capable. Overall, this has a TON of potential and I think it will be the first phone I don't constantly look forward to the next version on.
I just hope against hope that they have enabled hardware acceleration on this phone. If we have another non-implemented 2D/3D driver while relying on CPU power for rendering gsnarfle... I'd be most unhappy.
That's one of the big reasons I'm looking to move away from my Mogul... while it's a decent phone, they seem to have shot it in the leg and then told it to go run a marathon.
It may be my ignorance to the matter, but I hope that all the touchflo3D phones have full hardware acceleration support!
sayborg said:
Thanks for the comments guys!
Well, for me, it would have been nicer to keep the SAME size of the current TP2 but with a wider keyboard, this wouldn't make the device bigger because the rear part/surface of the keyboard is even not used. A wider keyboard wouldn't cost more and wouldn't be heavier.
I thing the problem is that the producers of such devices are usually not consumers. I doubt that poeple who have designed such devices have as much usage experience as us. They sometimes lack of subtilty I think.
I also think that there is no perfect repalcement of the HTC Universal which is sad.
There is also the Acer M900 which has an OK keyboard but it is not tilting and again the keyboard is not designed efficiently/optimally for me but again this is a personal opinion!
For me there is no point to have a 2,8 " PDA whith a build-in keyboard. Keys are just to small...
Maybe one day, we will see the perfect HTC Device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well honestly I think I think if they used the whole width it would take up to much space be harder to reach the keys on the ends of the keyboard with your thumbs., and also the kaiser keyboard is not bad, it is very easy to type on for me and I can type fast, adn honestly I think they are making hte keyboards smaller cause its easier to use them on the go,
but look at a pic of the touch pro 2 keyaboard they did make it use mroe space, so they know what you mean it does make typing easier, but for phones with HUGE keyboards.. well most people dont want a phone that big but honestly they used almost all of the space on the touch pro 2 for the keyboard
The only thing that worries me is the lack of the windows key and the ok button. Those two will be missed greatly. Otherwise, I think the keyboard will be a huge improvement over my Mogul's.
sayborg said:
I also think that there is no perfect repalcement of the HTC Universal which is sad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh sorry. While i havent used any touch device yet, i looked at the Universal, and one word jumped out at me.. Bulky. That thing just looks to big and clunky to be of any fluid use.
I was actually happy when i saw a pitcure of the TP2 keyboard. They keys look like a good size, and the bit of space between them i was happy to see because i toyed with the fuze/tilt and i fat-fingered with that keyboard enough to annoy me.
As far as removing keys... as Ranch Wilder would say..."Less is more". Just because a device as more keys/buttons doesn't mean its better. Take the Logitech G11 keyboard. They dumped a bunch of Macro keys on it, most of which never got used, and only made the keyboard take up more space. Their next version of the G15, the removed alot of the G keys (macro keys) to cut the size down, but there's still plenty to be useful.
I think its more a matter of people being use to so many keys, however i think the touch interface will more than make up for it. Plus i guess that puts me at and advantage where this will be my first phone with a keyboard.
If you feel the keys are too small, tell this to the Blackberry users.
I think the keyboard was stretched pretty close to the edges, I think its fine. the universal has a different target audience than the touch pro 2 if you want the PERFECT universal replacement I suggest this phone:
http://www.htc.com/www/product/shift/specification.html
but I never used or saw a universal so im not sure, but the shift is a really nice phone with a big keyboard and it has ALOT of speed, but it costs alot more than most phones and is wont fit in your pocket either but it seems like the perfect replacement plus it runs windows vista! a real os not a mobile one
and it has a finger print scanner built in whats not to like about that.
CAPS & Function Keys
I cannot imagine why the CAPS(shift) and Function keys are not reversed! Didn't the designers look at a computer keyboard?
So my question is - can the key functions be changed in the software and can the keycaps be popped off and switched?
orb3000 said:
Hope HTC have some secret devices on that form factor, but I doub it
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Click to collapse
Alas, I have been wishing this for years...
when the original Universal came out, as a college student, I didn't have the means for a Universal...
All I can do now is hope...
On my Tilt, the screen is really too small to have a useful on-screen keyboard, but I suspect it would be a lot more usable on TP2's higher res screen. Do those of you with a TP2 already find that you don't really need the hardware keyboard with the bigger / better screen available ?
RacerX10 said:
On my Tilt, the screen is really too small to have a useful on-screen keyboard, but I suspect it would be a lot more usable on TP2's higher res screen. Do those of you with a TP2 already find that you don't really need the hardware keyboard with the bigger / better screen available ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Emphatically not. The presence of the lovely physical keyboard was my single most important reason for buying a TP2. It's light years ahead of even the very best on-screen keyboard (and it has to be said that the TP2 on-screen keyboard is not the best there is, although it's pretty good - phones with capacitive screens do it better - but hard keys are much better still).
The on screen keyboard is pretty good compared to other HTC phones. I had the Touch HD with on screen as the only option. With the TP2 I can bang out a quick email or text with the on screen keyboard easier than I could with the Touch HD.
That being said the slide out keyboard is the best I've ever used.
RacerX10 said:
On my Tilt, the screen is really too small to have a useful on-screen keyboard, but I suspect it would be a lot more usable on TP2's higher res screen. Do those of you with a TP2 already find that you don't really need the hardware keyboard with the bigger / better screen available ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me that depends on the language I'm writing my message/text.
Having a german TP2, I use the hardware keyboard for german and english text, while using the onscreen keyboard for french as it is much faster and easier to enter special french signs there (é,è,à,ç aso).
In fact, the 'Symbol' option for the hardware keyboard is behaving somewhat arkward and is not really usable :-/
Actually there is no better keyboard than the hardware one
Not any virtula keyboard can be compared in confortability and speed of typing.
That´s because I love TP2!!
Just my opinion,
Whats the point of buying a qwerty device if you find screen keyboards acceptable?
I'm interested in the Motorola bluetooth keyboard, but I've yet to see it in person. I'm curious if some kind soul could photograph theirs in relation to their Xoom... maybe side-by-side so that I can get a sense of how wide and long it comparison, or at least describe how the two compare in size.
I thank ye.
Here ya go! I can snap some more pics if you have any other questions.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5j0Wu5aWgVuowV0uRtmJj_33b9kyUtk9JEAEd10goeA?feat=directlink
How do you turn the keyboard on/off? Want to make sure it's safe to throw in a messenger bag without accidentally turning it on.
There is a power button on the keyboard. Just hold it down a few seconds.
Is recessed a bit just below the top of the keyboard. I think it would be pretty tough to turn it on in a bag. Also the manual claims 6 months of active use and one year standby on just 2 AA batteries.
I created this post using the keyboard BTW
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
I initially purchased this keyboard but was unimpressed by build quality and typing feel, i decided to return it and use my amazingly good Microsoft BT keyboard that i got for around 30 dollars. In my opinion it is smaller, more responsive, better built and definitely better for straight typing on.
Only huge downside is the lack of android dedicated keys as on the moto kb, but even a lot of those didn't work.
I'm hoping that android's interaction with human interface devices (mice even!?) improves over time, because I am super close to being able to just use my Xoom when I am out in the field and leave my laptop behind.
Just curious what everyone is using for Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse. Anything you find that works best or doesn't work? I'm wanting to get both a keyboard and mouse but not 100% sure which to get. Ideally, I want the Bluetooth Keyboard/Case combo, but it still isn't out .
I haven't decided on a keyboard. I'm leaning toward the Logitech android keyboard due to it has a cover that doubles as a stand. It looks like it would be easier to throw in my bag and take to school. I have been using a Dell bluetooth notebook mouse that I've had for a while. I've never had any problems with it and as usual it works great on the tab.
SIR, but has anyone tried Acer's bluetooth keyboard for this?
See this web address extension on Amazon's site:
Acer-Iconia-Tab-Bluetooth-Keyboard/dp/B004YHOUDI
I just noticed it in OfficeMax yesterday. Without a doubt, I am definitely going to wait until Samsung releases the bluetooth/keyboard case first so that I can see it in person, but I will strongly consider this if I end up disliking Samsung's (unlikely, I think). The most important quality I am seeking in my keyboard is size. To this end, most of them I have considered have looked too large, even the Xoom's. This one, however, was about the same length as the tab itself (perhaps even a little shorter; I didn't have it on me for a direct comparison at the time). If you're a minimalist such as myself and for whatever reason Samsung's doesn't tickle your fancy, you might want to consider this one.
Using Logitech keyboard and Microsoft bluetooth mouse. Work great.
I think I am going to get the Motorola wireless keyboard for the Zoom. I like how it looks and the size of it
These keyboards work well for word and document processing? What program? Quick office?
BlueGoldAce said:
These keyboards work well for word and document processing? What program? Quick office?
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Click to collapse
My question too.
The Logitech keyboard looks pretty sweet, but a bit pricey. What apps do you use a keyboard with? Word processing (Quick Office or something else)? Web browsing?
Menotek Keyboard
If you do a lot of traveling as I do , you will find this one very friendly user, does the job and is waterproof too, I know a little silly if you ask me, but why not?
I can't put the link because I am new on the forum, type Menotek bluetooth waterproof keyboard on amazon, and voila" hope it helps.
ganiman said:
The Logitech keyboard looks pretty sweet, but a bit pricey. What apps do you use a keyboard with? Word processing (Quick Office or something else)? Web browsing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the logitech and love it with docs to go. Ymmv
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium App
I'm toying with the idea of using my phone to take notes. Would something like this work? Is there something similar that would make a better setup?
Logitech Tablet Keyboard for Android 3.0+ (920-003390) (On Amazon)
they also have the mini Bluetooth keyboards on amazon, and they are pretty nice...I think the mini keyboard would be great for note taking in my opinion. I used to use my tablet for not taking, except i used a note taking app and the capacitive stylus. I think it would have been a lot easier with a keyboard.
Pricy but the cool factor is off the scale!