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I read more information about WP7 and the concept of Hub. I estimate the HUB is a new type of multitasking. The concept is OS will push the application to back group and freeze the UI, and the information for application will push to HUB, so user can catch the information from HUB. For example, while user using the TomTom,when you need return to Home,OS would push the TomTom to backgroup,and freeze the TomTom's UI ,music...,but user still can see the inf. from HUB eg, speed,direction)
Do you agree ?
Anyway , I love the concept of WP7 and HUB
Great thing about this hub. I think all these cries about no multitasking is stupid thing, because of not understanding the idea of hub...
iamcrazyfire said:
I read more information about WP7 and the concept of Hub. I estimate the HUB is a new type of multitasking. The concept is OS will push the application to back group and freeze the UI, and the information for application will push to HUB, so user can catch the information from HUB. For example, while user using the TomTom,when you need return to Home,OS would push the TomTom to backgroup,and freeze the TomTom's UI ,music...,but user still can see the inf. from HUB eg, speed,direction)
Do you agree ?
Anyway , I love the concept of WP7 and HUB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup...same as iphone.
In iphone you decide which application gets prime attention. The "one" button is the task killer. The apps on the pages is akin to the apps listed on a task manager. You pick which one you want to switch to. The others tasks are frozen.
Don't iPhone tasks actually end meaning their state is lost?
RustyGrom said:
Don't iPhone tasks actually end meaning their state is lost?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really....they are frozen (hibernate).
U start right back from where u left off.
Can't say that about games though.
chiks19018 said:
Yup...same as iphone.
In iphone you decide which application gets prime attention. The "one" button is the task killer. The apps on the pages is akin to the apps listed on a task manager. You pick which one you want to switch to. The others tasks are frozen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But iphone freeze whole application, the concept of mine is wp7 only freeze the UI and sound,wps7 stills allow application push the information to hub.If wps only run managed code is true ,this type of multitasking(multithreading) will not cash the whole OS cause of one of shiit
iamcrazyfire said:
But iphone freeze whole application, the concept of mine is wp7 only freeze the UI and sound,wps7 stills allow application push the information to hub.If wps only run managed code is true ,this type of multitasking(multithreading) will not cash the whole OS cause of one of shiit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah...when iphone comes with 1.5ghz dual core processor, it will allow that too.
Multitasking requires that processing continues while the app doesn't have focus. What's being described above is simply suspending the app...not multitasking.
A good use of multitasking for example is: running a navigation app such as CoPilot 8, downloading a file with IE and talking on the phone all simultaneously. Ideally, you wouldn't want any of those apps to stop or suspend, you'd want them to continue running even though another app still has focus.
I don't know how a non-true-multitasking OS would handle doing what I just described. Even if it employed a sophisticated system of notifications and interrupts, I don't see how. I hope MS has a good work-around developed for WP7. My daily use of multitasking includes the use of MagiCall call manager app which always runs in the background filtering my SMS's and phone calls. iPhone doesn't have an app like that because it doesn't truly multitask.
Running a navigation software and then taking a phone call ... I have done this a lot and it is a good use-case.
And I dont think the new WP7 cannot do this. It is a phone device, taking a phone call should be the highest priority.
This would suck if the navigation software is then paused, I hope not. How is this on the iPhone?
But, running a navigation software ... while downloading a file ... and then taking a phone call?
You must be more specific, because I cannot imagine myself, on a running car using CoPilot and still managing my torrents That's dangerous ...
WhyBe said:
Multitasking requires that processing continues while the app doesn't have focus. What's being described above is simply suspending the app...not multitasking.
A good use of multitasking for example is: running a navigation app such as CoPilot 8, downloading a file with IE and talking on the phone all simultaneously. Ideally, you wouldn't want any of those apps to stop or suspend, you'd want them to continue running even though another app still has focus.
I don't know how a non-true-multitasking OS would handle doing what I just described. Even if it employed a sophisticated system of notifications and interrupts, I don't see how. I hope MS has a good work-around developed for WP7. My daily use of multitasking includes the use of MagiCall call manager app which always runs in the background filtering my SMS's and phone calls. iPhone doesn't have an app like that because it doesn't truly multitask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well those were just random examples to illustrate the type of apps that you DON'T want to suspend when they don't have focus.
WhyBe said:
well those were just random examples to illustrate the type of apps that you DON'T want to suspend when they don't have focus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how important is downloading the file in the whole scheme of things?
Not very much. It might benefit to stop that process and use the available power to work what you can actually see.
I think its pointless to rationalize away the need to multitask. Hopefully, MS has worked out a reasonable compromise in WP7 until it's feasible to have true multitasking AND seamless performance in a mobile form factor.
I use a call manager (MagiCall) which runs in the background. I know they don't have this type of app for non-jailbroken iPhones because it doesn't multitask.
My typical multitasking is CoPilot, MagiCall and MS Voice Command reading my text messages. This is not an unrealistic expectation. I'm hoping WP7 will have some sort of scheme to allow the same functionality.
why would you need MSVC reading text messages when the Copilot is giving out instructions?doesn't make sense.
Here is what makes sense:
Only 1 voice/sound application can be actively running at any given time. Cannot have the games music, music player, MSVC, Copilot all talking/playing at the same time.
Can have only 1 graphic application running at 1 time. I.e. Panel refresh possible only for the foregorund application.
Multiple task possible for data-fetch/push application.
Anything more is unreasonable.
chiks19018 said:
why would you need MSVC reading text messages when the Copilot is giving out instructions?doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems kind of obvious to me...IDK. If I am driving, it is very convenient for everything to be audible as opposed to visual. So voiced text messages are better when driving as well as voiced navigation instructions. What would be kick ass is if I could get some speech-to-text to reply to my messages vocally.
Call/SMS firewalling is enough reason for me to desire multitasking in a phone. Perhaps these could be implemented using some sort of interupt system in WP7.
I must be nuts even reading such needs & requirements
you think i'll be able to log onto an IM client and then surf the net and await for messages? or do i have to turn on some type of forward to text feature? that's probably my biggest concern. everything elsle, i could probably live w/ teh "suspend."
though if i was downloading a song or movie or smething, i'd hate to have to wait for it to finish before i can do something else...
chiks19018 said:
how important is downloading the file in the whole scheme of things?
Not very much. It might benefit to stop that process and use the available power to work what you can actually see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would it be a benefit to stop a file downloading in the background?
If you're downloading a large file, you don't want to sit staring at your phone's screen waiting until it finishes downloading before you can do anything else.
If you're so primitive that you can't find something for your phone to do while you're doing something else on it, I don't know why you bother having a smartphone.
Well, have you ever downloaded a large file to your phone?
Probably ...
But me? No, never ...
Why?
Because if I am at home, I will use my desktop PC to download which so much faster than my mobile phone. Think, the download speed is not only related to the internet connection.
Then I will pull my SDHC card, copy the file from the desktop.
Super fast, painless.
You can argue "What if you are not at home?"
I will not download that large file ... what kind of large file I must download while on the go to put in my mobile phone? Movie? How long before the battery runs out? Better to do something else
elyl said:
Why would it be a benefit to stop a file downloading in the background?
If you're downloading a large file, you don't want to sit staring at your phone's screen waiting until it finishes downloading before you can do anything else.
If you're so primitive that you can't find something for your phone to do while you're doing something else on it, I don't know why you bother having a smartphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
elyl said:
Why would it be a benefit to stop a file downloading in the background?
If you're downloading a large file, you don't want to sit staring at your phone's screen waiting until it finishes downloading before you can do anything else.
If you're so primitive that you can't find something for your phone to do while you're doing something else on it, I don't know why you bother having a smartphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry. I got that wrong. File downloads/datapush/fetch can and should continue in the background. nothing wrong with that. Just never give those processes top priority is what I really meant. Push comes to shove, those processes should be suspended for the benefit of the process on the screen.
These are the 3 important things on my list about Windows Phone 7. I know initially these wont be available but i remember reading a while back that the emulator or something got hacked by someone here and revealed a file explorer in windows phone 7
is that any indication that there will be a means of exploring the contents of the device like we currently have on winmo?
also how feasible would it be for them to allow multitasking for apps? is that something impossible for this platform or could they actually do this with a update?
and whats the word on using the device as a usb drive like most phones out there can currently do?
deadwrong03 said:
These are the 3 important things on my list about Windows Phone 7. I know initially these wont be available but i remember reading a while back that the emulator or something got hacked by someone here and revealed a file explorer in windows phone 7
is that any indication that there will be a means of exploring the contents of the device like we currently have on winmo?
also how feasible would it be for them to allow multitasking for apps? is that something impossible for this platform or could they actually do this with a update?
and whats the word on using the device as a usb drive like most phones out there can currently do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you probably didn't follow the WP7 news....
Anyway at launch NONE of the above are available.
deadwrong03 said:
the emulator or something got hacked by someone here and revealed a file explorer in windows phone 7
is that any indication that there will be a means of exploring the contents of the device like we currently have on winmo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The file explorer in the emulator didn't really work, but was present. It won't be available in the retail version and there will be no file system access for users.
deadwrong03 said:
also how feasible would it be for them to allow multitasking for apps? is that something impossible for this platform or could they actually do this with a update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multitasking will likely be added in a future update, although I would bet that this will be some iPhone-style limited multitasking where programs won't actually run in background but rather use OS services to do what needs to be done while they're not in focus. That multitasking is needed was confirmed by MS. How it will be implemented is not known, I'm guessing here.
deadwrong03 said:
and whats the word on using the device as a usb drive like most phones out there can currently do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This won't be available. After all, it's not really useful without file system access.
So in these areas WP7 is very similar to the iPhone. To get this features, WP7 devices will need to be jailbroken (or whatever the process will be called).
Like stated above. Many if not all the things you are looking for may be missing on launch. But future updates may change this. Also don't doubt the good people at XDA-Devs not to find some sort of way around getting USB Mass Storage access as well as a File Explorer. Never Say "Never" around this place.
what about downloading through the web browser? like downloading pictures or like i do with my tp2 download music and albums will any downloading be possible at all thru the browser? since theres no file explorer now im guessing not
IM0001 said:
Also don't doubt the good people at XDA-Devs not to find some sort of way around getting USB Mass Storage access as well as a File Explorer. Never Say "Never" around this place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure we will get a USB Mass Storage mod, I just hope it isn't a long process like on the iphone.
deadwrong03 said:
what about downloading through the web browser? like downloading pictures or like i do with my tp2 download music and albums will any downloading be possible at all thru the browser?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is possible for file types supported by the OS - images, office documents. All other file types will be downloadable via webbrowser controls within third-party applications to their isolated storage areas.
vangrieg said:
Multitasking will likely be added in a future update, although I would bet that this will be some iPhone-style limited multitasking where programs won't actually run in background but rather use OS services to do what needs to be done while they're not in focus. That multitasking is needed was confirmed by MS. How it will be implemented is not known, I'm guessing here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think some kinds of multitasking are available. Read this post: bolingconsulting[dot]com/blog/?p=46
Azatey said:
I think some kinds of multitasking are available. Read this post: bolingconsulting[dot]com/blog/?p=46
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is first party multitasking for some apps e.g. Zune. No third party multitasking e.g. no Pandora.
-R
sketchy9 said:
There is first party multitasking for some apps e.g. Zune. No third party multitasking e.g. no Pandora.
-R
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but there is a iPhone esque multi-tasking. They call it tombstoning. The app gets put into a saved state when you switch apps, and when you hit the back button it gets brought back up as if you never left, but it is not running in the background, just saved. But if you go to the home/star menu and start the same app it gets started as if you never had it in the tombstone state.
the toombstoning sounds awefull for anything that uses bluetooth or gps....
Tombstoning is NOT multitasking and it is NOT an alternative.
crow26 said:
Tombstoning is NOT multitasking and it is NOT an alternative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in most cases it is the same as multi tasking with the exception of music other than zune or gps / bluetooth however i do not see a need for a gps app to be running when its not in the foreground. but any other will act the same as it would on a phone with multi tasking. i would be intrested in you posting your example that you think wp7 cant do (with the exception of what is listed above).
It's not at all the same, never. Completely different thing that has nothing to do with multitasking.
crow26 said:
It's not at all the same, never. Completely different thing that has nothing to do with multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you keep making the claim but have yet to give an example... wp7 current way of "multi task" vs andriod "multi task"
WP7:
1. App is running in the forderground
2. App is frozen in the RAM and only some threads are still running
3. App is frozen in the Flash memory and only some threads are still running
4. App is not running
Andriod
1. App is running in the foreground
2. App is frozen in the RAM and only some threads are still running
3. Just a portion of an app is running in the background as a service, the main app is deflated and residing in memory, or has been killed, leaving only the service.
4. App is not running, but is still in Memory in a deflated state until RAM runs out.
5. App is killed and not residing in memory. It may leave call to the OS to revive it periodically when conditions are met.
and here are a few examples people have explained how they use "multi task"
listen to my music
surf on the Internet,
check some addresses with Google Maps.
Also I use the camera.- wp7 possable
listening to music
open my twitter program
open a link from one of the twits
pause twitting to write a SMS - wp7 possable
The fact is there are very few areas where we do need "real multitasking", they are music+whatever and navigation+receiving a call/email. And of these, it is only navigation that seem not to be working as we all expect in first release of WP7 at least. Music, mail, phone are 1. party apps, and those will run in background when needed.
What people often think about when they say; "But I need multitasking"...they often just think about that they want to work in one app, then jump to another app, and then back to the first and continue where they left off...and that is something that is handeled by saving and loading of state. For us users...it will be as it was running in the background.
And then there are multitasking-scenario where you want for example to get notified when there is a new Twitter that mentions you, or when you airplane is delayed, and so forth...and that is also possible in WP7, if the developers use PushNotifications.
for now this is what most people really use as far as "multi task" goes...
Honestly, WM 6/6.5 style multitasking would be instant death for WP7. People who are computer-retarded (the majority of people) wouldn't be able to use it properly. When the memory fills up, the phone simply "stops working" for them and it's time to get an iPhone.
This new system makes much more sense... yes, it's not the same, but it will work just fine in the long run.
Perfect example I use my phone for navigation. I'm driving and my friend wants to surf the net while I drive. My friend takes my phone and starts browsing the net. Navigation is still running in the background giving me voice guided directions. Can WP7 do this?
What about surf the net while on a skype call?
What about Pandora while playing a game?
vetvito said:
Perfect example I use my phone for navigation. I'm driving and my friend wants to surf the net while I drive. My friend takes my phone and starts browsing the net. Navigation is still running in the background giving me voice guided directions. Can WP7 do this?
What about surf the net while on a skype call?
What about Pandora while playing a game?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as mentioned above in many post "with the exception of navigation" and not all people use pandora zune will do for current. and yes you are what most consider to be a more "advance user" however this is not the norm as most people use one app at a time.. so although its not giving you all that you are looking for at the current it will fufill 95% of the users and they way they use apps. and the most important thing is it will run alot smoother and better than android, wm 6.5, 6.1, rim... i will take this over a few things not being able to run in the background anyday!!!
"Tombstoning" is nothing. Every OS can do that.
Multitasking means running applications in the background. On WP7, nothing is running at all = NO MULTITASKING.
= no navigation in the background
= no internet radio in the background
= no downloads in the background
= no skype in the backround
= no server in the background
= ...
Is that so hard to understand?! Are you somehow retarded or what's wrong with you?
Crow26, why do you have to be rude? Politeness never hurt anyone.
After I read the review on WM7 on GSMArena, I finally made up my mind: I will never downgrade to WM7, because it's what it actually is: a downgrade.
I use navigation a lot and, obviously, I receive calls while I drive. Is my HD2 the last phone with which I can do that? Is this the end of the line?
WM7 feels like another one of those OS for people who know nothing about computers (the majority). It is such a downgrade from WM6.5 in that sense...
1st off this is not intended to be a flaming / bashing thread. If you want to do that please go elsewhere; I'm sure the vibrant forums will welcome you. If a MOD feels this belongs somewhere else, please move it.
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
Interface - Finally something completely new and wonderful. Microsoft really did hit a homerun on trying to make information at a glance approach. Mail and search apps look beautiful. I thing missing, being able to quickly jump to apps in the app menu.
Lack of Landscape Support- For as great as the UI is I am shocked at the lack of landscape support. The start menu, app menu, nor Zune have lanscape support. You can not even refresh a webpage or type in a website if you are in landscape mode. Calling this anything other than an epic "FAIL" by microsoft is sugar coating it. Especially when the HD7 and Surround beg to be in landscape mode with their kick stands.
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Zune - Wonderful if you have a Zune Pass. Honestly it was one of the main reasons why I bought this phone. I expected it to be awesome and it didn't disappoint. That being said they need to add a Play Now option to the market songs. When I'm browsing the market sometimes I want to queue songs and the Add to Playlist option makes sense but how could you leave out Play now? Seriously?
Another thing I don't like is I can not fast forward to a certain spot in a movie. Video files can be hours long, why should I have to hold the fast forward button to get to the point I'd like. Let me hit the progress bar and then use the rewind / fast forward buttons for getting to the exact point.
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone. I know I could get an audio cable and do the same, but while driving it is so much easier to use the radio head unit to control music rather than your phone. I knew this when getting in bed with WP7, but that doesnt mean I still can't miss it.
Bluetooth- for music works just like it should. however it will not play the audio from video files threw bluetooth. It keeps coming out of my phone's main speakers and there is no way to get into the bluetooth profiles to see if something is wrong. VERY ANNOYING MS. get to fixing it.
People- Wonderful. Could anyone ask anymore? I gave it my facebook and gmail accounts and I didn't have to worry about any contacts not showing up. Love the Facebook updates also.
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Announced fixes- Flash, Copy & Paste, Turn by Turn navigation can't come soon enough but I am glad microsoft acknowledged they needed them.
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
Overall- I bought my HD7 without a contract and I am pretty sure i will NOT be returning it. I love my HD7 and WP7, however this OS isn't entirely complete. That being said was iOS and Android complete when they came out? To even suggest that is laughable. I can not wait for microsoft to release all the fixes for this OS because when it does it will be a powerhouse.
I will not buy that this phone is for dumbsmart phone users. I probably done more with my phones than 95% of android users who will do nothing by bash WP7 and i honestly see this for ALL users. It helps bring the powerhouse experience in an easier way without being tied down as much as iOS.
Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.
N8ter said:
Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those threads became nothing but flaming / bashing threads. I thought it would be a good idea to try to get away from that.
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
I thought it was annoying not being able to get to the address bar with all that screen space.
I don't know about you guys but my Surround goes into landscape mode IE just fine...
The only thing I don't like is lack of landscape in marketplace and Zune...
also if you want a nice photo editor, Thumba photo editor for $.099 is awesome!
EDIT: Oh i see. I can't believe I have to switch to portrait to type a URL!! WTF microsoft!
jz9833 said:
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall I agree with just about everything you said. Regarding the browser, I've noticed that certain areas of webpages are zoomed in more than others. For instance, on xda, the text of people's posts is HUGE compared to the buttons such as User CP, etc. at the top of the page. What I've found is a double tap in my area of interest on a page will zoom the page so that ONLY my area of interest is approriately sized. Then, when I want to switch to another part of the page, I double tap there and the page will resize, and so on. The text does not dynamically reflow a la Android, but I think it's a pretty usable system.
-R
jz9833 said:
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???
rruffman said:
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.
jz9833 said:
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.
N8ter said:
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree. Basically system is made of apps.
If email app built into it is buggy, we can say OS is buggy.
jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then you are going to have to disagree with almost all people. This isn't a techy vs jock debate. These are apps which are built into the os and therefore part of the os.
But anyway this thread is meant for objective evaluation of WP7. If you want to continue this debate we should continue it somewhere else.
jz9833 said:
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use search in the people hub for something very similar. Admittedly not an exact substitute but it works well enough for me.
jz9833 said:
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post
jz9833 said:
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
jz9833 said:
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do it this way, then you are working with two sets of data (email, calendar, tasks, contacts, etc.) neither of which is guaranteed to be up to date. I don't see why people think this is preferable to a server-based system.
jz9833 said:
I will not buy that this phone is for dumb smart phone users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully this will be true; I will keep my fingers crossed. Currently, as I see it, they are targeting people who don't understand what files are, and would be confused by files, and who believe that music consists of songs arranged by artists into albums. I.e. the dumb mass market.
CSMR said:
How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.
The Gate Keeper said:
though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how about an MP3 cd? to play in your car? to lend to a friend? or your USB stick? as soon as it's available on zune desktop you have a copy of it... there is plenty ways around it. i'm not saying you should do it, i'm saying the possibilities are there.
N8ter said:
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the files are not DRMed, and Microsoft wants to protect them, either it can DRM the files, or it can keep them in isolated storage. The existence of common storage doesn't exclude isolated storage.
*****UPDATED 11/30/12*****
tl;dr -- It was the best freaking decision I've ever made in my cellular life.
Things we miss:
- iMessage (Use something like Kik as an alternative)
- iLife and iWork for iOS (Various replacements. I started using ePrint by HP for my wireless printing needs. Works almost as well)
- Game Selection (I work on my phone, so playing games doesn't affect me much, but a lot of the core games are still there)
Things you gain from the switch:
- Bigger screen for easier reading.
- Battery life is omg good.
- The cameras are just as good in my opinion. Low light shots are grainy.
- S Pen is really useful for taking notes in a pinch. Pull it out, jot the note, put it back, note autosaves.
- Other S Pen functionality is really nice. Things like previews in the calendar, cutting out parts of the screen to save in notes, etc.
- Performance is bar none better 10-fold perceptively. I never have a moment of hesitation on my phone.
- Tops out at 128GB (Eat that 16GB iPhone 5)
- Size doesn't really hurt your pocket that badly. Bigger screen catches the bosses attention. I have had more than one comment at work about how I take my job seriously being ready for anything like that.
************************************************
I have an iPhone 5 presently and have been debating for several days now whether of not I want to get the Note 2. I have watched Phonedogs comparison and read article after article and it feels like the phones pretty well break even. So I thought I'd ask some former iPhone users about their experience with their switch.
I have Apple TVs and Airport Expresses all over the place. I stream things almost exclusively while I'm at home. I also mirror my phone to the TV at night laying in bed (doing that now typing this). That being said, I know android has apps that support airplay but not necessarily a screen mirroring solution short of VNC that would require a PC hooked up to my TV and a whole lot more of an inconvenience to get fired up.
I don't know what android has that is directly on par with iWork for iOS. I love typing up documents, syncing them to my phone with iCloud, and being able to edit and print them from my phone wireless on practically any and all wireless printers regardless of brand. iWork for iOS works completely and with a full feature set that I don't ever remember finding in Documents To Go. Has this improved at all?
Not knowing much about the Android ecosystem, what kind of apps are equivalent to iMovie? I use that quite a bit and am curious what android solutions match that in ease of use and functionality. I can't stress enough that when I ask these comparison questions, I'm not trying to prove one better. I'm actually wanting to make the switch. I'm just looking to be more informed about what I'm loosing and what I'm gaining before doing so.
What have you iPhone users missed about your iPhone since you made the switch?
I miss iTunes and some of the apps from the appstore. However, it all makes up it when I remind myself that "can't do no work on a 4" screen"
I switched. No regrets
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
In my opinion, the only thing missing on Android is the robust game/app selection and consistency in layout/design. I have an iPad 3 anyway, so I have the best of both worlds regardless. The iPhone in both 3.5" and 4" alike simply isn't useful for my needs anymore.
PS: I have a WDTV Live that will allow the equivalent of "Airplay" without any hassle through the Note 2. In terms of exclusive apps (e.g. Garageband, Numbers, Pages, iMovie, etc.) there is no equal. If you are heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem, it may be somewhat difficult to switch.
I know the Note 2 comes with Polaris Office included in the stock ROM. Probably won't touch the iWork suite in terms of interface and usability, but give it a try on a demo model and see if it may work for you.
Nothing
Sent from the TermiNOTEr 2!
I miss this little simple function on ios. Say you are at the bottom of a very long Page or document you could double tap the top of status bar and it would move to the top instantly instead of having to scroll up. Nothing big but nice little feature
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda app-developers app
ahjdmarchi said:
I miss this little simple function on ios. Say you are at the bottom of a very long Page or document you could double tap the top of status bar and it would move to the top instantly instead of having to scroll up. Nothing big but nice little feature
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought i was the only one who misses that little feature. Aside from that, I currently own both phones and theyre both fantastic but sadly I prefer my Gnote2 over my iph5. The big screen is a huge plus and the S-Pen is really neat. But I do like the apps more on the iphone.
Johncrist1988 said:
I have an iPhone 5 presently and have been debating for several days now whether of not I want to get the Note 2. I have watched Phonedogs comparison and read article after article and it feels like the phones pretty well break even. So I thought I'd ask some former iPhone users about their experience with their switch.
I have Apple TVs and Airport Expresses all over the place. I stream things almost exclusively while I'm at home. I also mirror my phone to the TV at night laying in bed (doing that now typing this). That being said, I know android has apps that support airplay but not necessarily a screen mirroring solution short of VNC that would require a PC hooked up to my TV and a whole lot more of an inconvenience to get fired up.
I don't know what android has that is directly on par with iWork for iOS. I love typing up documents, syncing them to my phone with iCloud, and being able to edit and print them from my phone wireless on practically any and all wireless printers regardless of brand. iWork for iOS works completely and with a full feature set that I don't ever remember finding in Documents To Go. Has this improved at all?
Not knowing much about the Android ecosystem, what kind of apps are equivalent to iMovie? I use that quite a bit and am curious what android solutions match that in ease of use and functionality. I can't stress enough that when I ask these comparison questions, I'm not trying to prove one better. I'm actually wanting to make the switch. I'm just looking to be more informed about what I'm loosing and what I'm gaining before doing so.
What have you iPhone users missed about your iPhone since you made the switch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Iwork substitutes..
http://http://alternativeto.net/software/apple-iwork/?platform=android
Imovie substitute
http://https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.forscene.KestrelTest&hl=en
Mirroring...I don't think you can get as close yet outside of VNC...but for utilizing your Apple TV
http://http://doubletwist.com/help/question/how-do-i-stream-to-apple-tv-2nd-generation-from-my-android-device/
All in all...it's going to depend on how deep your into Apple's pockets..Phone for phone...there really is no comparison on the differences...all one has to do is to hold each and use each.
What do I miss the most about my Iphone...simple...all the money I lost making the switch back to my Note II...from all of my expensive apps and extra Icloud storage I can no longer use...but...IMHO...it's worth it...
Mac
I'm not so deep I can't get out. I can return the Airport and iPhone still and swap for the Gnote2. I need to google around more about DLNA devices because streaming is nice, and if there's a.... 'cleaner' product of method of doing it, it may be worth it.
This is available on the Note 2e
ahjdmarchi said:
I miss this little simple function on ios. Say you are at the bottom of a very long Page or document you could double tap the top of status bar and it would move to the top instantly instead of having to scroll up. Nothing big but nice little feature
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This can be done in 2 ways on the GN2. One wny is to switch on the feature in the settings under "Motion"/"Double Tap". Otherwise, assuming the long text is in a browser you can use Boat Browser (which is very customizable) and has this feature.
Regarding AirPlay and the other things mentioned in this thread, can you not simply keep you iphone as a Wifi only media player/streamer?
I use my old Galaxy SI as such with Spotify. Without a Sim card and a 3g data connection the battery can last almost three days also
borijess said:
Nothing
Sent from the TermiNOTEr 2!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
The question is per user. I prefer the non-locked down system of Android. Watch a lot of movies and the iPhone has to be jailbroken to do anything other then basic usage. XBMC on my Note2 + MHL adaptor and no rooting. I love the customization.
Another reason I switched was because of iTunes. What a mess. I have a lot of mixes for music and iTunes splits it up. I prefer just being able to dump on my sd card.
Only thing I miss is the gaming apps. But not that much that I would switch back.
Sent from my SGH-I317M using xda premium
ahjdmarchi said:
I miss this little simple function on ios. Say you are at the bottom of a very long Page or document you could double tap the top of status bar and it would move to the top instantly instead of having to scroll up. Nothing big but nice little feature
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know the GN2 has this feature right?
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
yellowman82 said:
You do know the GN2 has this feature right?
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it work for the browser? That's where I need it the most.
I've owned and used as my main device every iphone up to the iphone 5. I'm loving the Note 2, but there are a few things I miss:
- Overall simplicity. There was a lot of handholding in iOS that I didn't even necessarily realize was happening, which I miss. Biggest/most annoying example so far: sending videos via MMS or email. Unless you have the "limit size to MMS" or whatever checked when you record the video (which would mean a crappy source quality in the video, should you want to use it for anything other than an MMS), you can't MMS it to someone (and unless it's more than a few seconds long, it'll likely be too big to email as well). There are some apps out there for transcoding the video to a lower bitrate, resizing, etc, but this is a royal pain to have to do any time you want to send a quick video. iOS did it all automatically when you went to send the video.
- Better versions of apps. Some apps are just better/smoother on ios. Examples include facebook, Steam, The Weather Channel.
- Photo Stream. My wife is on an iPhone, and we have an old ipad that we use as a photo frame. I miss being able to easily have photos I take appear on both her phone and the iPad.
- iCloud. I miss stuff syncing with my mac desktop apps for things like notes, reminders, etc. I'm sure I could find something to get me by for the notes, and the others I mentioned would sync to a Google calendar, but still. I miss all that happening automatically.
Overall though, I'm very happy to have made the switch. There is no way I could go back to that tiny iPhone screen now.
Mirroring via VGA dongle.
ahjdmarchi said:
I miss this little simple function on ios. Say you are at the bottom of a very long Page or document you could double tap the top of status bar and it would move to the top instantly instead of having to scroll up. Nothing big but nice little feature
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go back to iphone..obviously u dont know how to work ir own phone ....maybe u need it simplified from apple sgn2 is better in all aspects
skochw said:
I've owned and used as my main device every iphone up to the iphone 5. I'm loving the Note 2, but there are a few things I miss:
- Overall simplicity. There was a lot of handholding in iOS that I didn't even necessarily realize was happening, which I miss. Biggest/most annoying example so far: sending videos via MMS or email. Unless you have the "limit size to MMS" or whatever checked when you record the video (which would mean a crappy source quality in the video, should you want to use it for anything other than an MMS), you can't MMS it to someone (and unless it's more than a few seconds long, it'll likely be too big to email as well). There are some apps out there for transcoding the video to a lower bitrate, resizing, etc, but this is a royal pain to have to do any time you want to send a quick video. iOS did it all automatically when you went to send the video.
- Better versions of apps. Some apps are just better/smoother on ios. Examples include facebook, Steam, The Weather Channel.
- Photo Stream. My wife is on an iPhone, and we have an old ipad that we use as a photo frame. I miss being able to easily have photos I take appear on both her phone and the iPad.
- iCloud. I miss stuff syncing with my mac desktop apps for things like notes, reminders, etc. I'm sure I could find something to get me by for the notes, and the others I mentioned would sync to a Google calendar, but still. I miss all that happening automatically.
Overall though, I'm very happy to have made the switch. There is no way I could go back to that tiny iPhone screen now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are good points to know, thank you. Looking back I do remember video sending being a pain. I eventually ended up doing private Youtube uploads all the time and linking people to the videos. An extra step.
Not that I'm saying that's a deal breaker at all, but it's those little things. Does Android have a response to Photostream out of the box? If I recall, doesn't it automagically upload to Google+ or something of the sort?
twanskys204 said:
Go back to iphone..obviously u dont know how to work ir own phone ....maybe u need it simplified from apple sgn2 is better in all aspects
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Come on, if there's a way to do it and you know how, just tell the guy rather than being snarky for no good reason. This thread is obviously targeted towards people making the switch from iOS to Android, and there is a definite learning curve involved there.
Johncrist1988 said:
Those are good points to know, thank you. Looking back I do remember video sending being a pain. I eventually ended up doing private Youtube uploads all the time and linking people to the videos. An extra step.
Not that I'm saying that's a deal breaker at all, but it's those little things. Does Android have a response to Photostream out of the box? If I recall, doesn't it automagically upload to Google+ or something of the sort?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does upload to Google+, yes. I wound up turning that off, though, since I rarely use Google+. I did turn on automatic photo/video uploading for Dropbox, though, and I am absolutely loving that. I know there's photo/video upload in Dropbox for iOS, but this all happens via a service running in the background, so you don't have to have the actual Dropbox app open for it to happen.
Something else to note about the auto-upload for Dropbox (and Google+, for that matter): you can use that to share videos/images easily. Only issue is the person receiving it has to download/stream the full-res video or image, and you have to wait for it to upload before you can share itg. Still much easier than transcoding just to send a video, though.
I'm using both....Loving both
I have long since dreamed of a car-puter or workstation that simply my phone expanded. All apps and files would automatically travel with you and the whole system would automatically get upgraded, for free, every time you upgraded your phone.
Mirroring images and sound can be done many ways, but the problem has always been inputs from the larger screen making their way to your phone. There are a few work-arounds with resistive screens, but they look junky, have low sensitivity and don't allow multitouch.
The holy grail has always been full 2-way comm with an external capacitive screen. This is the first time I have ever seen a capacitive screen that lists 10-point capacitive touch as a feature for Android and that has Android drivers downloadable in the 'documents' tab of their product page.
http://lilliputweb.net/capacitive-touch-screen-monitors/7-inch-multi-touch/779gl-70np-c-t.html
Does this really mean what I think it does?!? I know that drivers in android are far from as simple as an executable file in windows. But does this mean that with a little work any of us could make this monitor play nicely with our own devices? Or ideally could a person or two (with more skill than I have) make this monitor plug and play with a common distro like cyanogenmod or the like?
Any thoughts from any of the more experienced minds in these forums would be VERY appreciated. PS. I love this forum and wish I had the time and the chops to add more to it myself, but in the meantime thank you to all contributes. Cheers.