Related
I'm currently on the no longer available SERO plan from sprint. So i'm very reluctant to do anything that changes my plan considering how much i am saving each month.
Right now i have a touch pro2. I'm wondering if i buy an EVO somewhere (other then sprint) and activate it, will sprint know i am using an EVO? I'm not going to pay the extra $10/month considering that extra $10 doesn't get me anything extra that i wouldn't get with any other android phone.
I wasn't sure if the phone itself reports to sprint what phone it is. or if it does, if there's someway to have it report itself as something else.
I believe when they run the esn to activate it, it tells them what type of phone it is. If this is the case, you will have to pay the $10/month.
merkk said:
I'm currently on the no longer available SERO plan from sprint. So i'm very reluctant to do anything that changes my plan considering how much i am saving each month.
Right now i have a touch pro2. I'm wondering if i buy an EVO somewhere (other then sprint) and activate it, will sprint know i am using an EVO? I'm not going to pay the extra $10/month considering that extra $10 doesn't get me anything extra that i wouldn't get with any other android phone.
I wasn't sure if the phone itself reports to sprint what phone it is. or if it does, if there's someway to have it report itself as something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that if you try to activate an EVO on a SERO plan it will not only charge you the $10/mo premium data fee but it will also require you to change to an Everything * plan. They know what type of phone it is based on the ESN you put in to activate it.
yes Sprint knows what phone is active
Yes Sprint knows what phone you have because you have a serial number that is registered with sprint. This serial number is what the network uses to allow you to make calls billing etc. Being sprint uses a serial number they know what your phone is not like a sim where you can just switch to another phone. Hope this helps any more questions let me know.
Sorry for the confusion - i am aware i'll have to switch to an everything plan. Plus i will have to pay the $10/month on top of the everything plan.
I'd consider paying the everything plan. But the $10 fee really pisses me off since they are basically just making up an excuse to ask for an extra $10 and not giving me anything for the $10 that i wouldn't get with any other android or winmo phone.
How does the ESN # tell them what phone i have? Do they have a database with all the ESN numbers in it? or is the number formatted in a certain way that it containts the model number?
I don't suppose there's any way for me to spoof the esn and have it appear to be the same as my current phone?
thanks
HTC could very well give sprint and all of the carriers for which they develope exclusive phones the unique ESN numbers. That's how they would match the ESN to whatever phone you activate.
If anyone finds a way to spoof the ESN, you'd be cutting deeper into the pockets of sprint. They don't care too much that we modders get free tethering because the average person wouldn't go through all of the trouble rooting the phone, not to mention that they know, that we know, we're already paying for the data. It's kinda like Sprint saying, "Ok, you are paying for it anyway, so, if you can do it, go aheadn and root your phone."
Once you start spoofing ESN numbers on a mass scale, and circumventing that $10 surcharge, you can guarantee all of this rooting will be put to an end.
merkk said:
Sorry for the confusion - i am aware i'll have to switch to an everything plan. Plus i will have to pay the $10/month on top of the everything plan.
I'd consider paying the everything plan. But the $10 fee really pisses me off since they are basically just making up an excuse to ask for an extra $10 and not giving me anything for the $10 that i wouldn't get with any other android or winmo phone.
How does the ESN # tell them what phone i have? Do they have a database with all the ESN numbers in it? or is the number formatted in a certain way that it containts the model number?
I don't suppose there's any way for me to spoof the esn and have it appear to be the same as my current phone?
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ESN is only on that one phone, and sprint has a database with all sprint activated ESNs. I have heard, sprint will not activate a phone not in their database. As for the ESN "cloning" in can be done, but i believe its not legal.
merkk said:
Sorry for the confusion - i am aware i'll have to switch to an everything plan. Plus i will have to pay the $10/month on top of the everything plan.
I'd consider paying the everything plan. But the $10 fee really pisses me off since they are basically just making up an excuse to ask for an extra $10 and not giving me anything for the $10 that i wouldn't get with any other android or winmo phone.
How does the ESN # tell them what phone i have? Do they have a database with all the ESN numbers in it? or is the number formatted in a certain way that it containts the model number?
I don't suppose there's any way for me to spoof the esn and have it appear to be the same as my current phone?
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FWIW,
As memory serves, Sprint uses both an ESN, and the MAC address to track their customers. It is possible to find, and modify an ESN, and to "spoof" a MAC.
However, other than mention that there are articles in the forums on the ESN (and likely on the MAC). I'll refrain from providing a detailed how-to on the subject - I hope you understand, nothing personal.
HTH
--Chris
DeLL116 said:
HTC could very well give sprint and all of the carriers for which they develope exclusive phones the unique ESN numbers. That's how they would match the ESN to whatever phone you activate.
If anyone finds a way to spoof the ESN, you'd be cutting depper into the pockets of sprint. They don't care too much that we modders get free tethering because the average person wouldn't go through all of the trouble rooting the phone, not to mention that they know, that we know, we're already paying for the data. It's kinda like Spring saying, "Ok, you are paying for it anyway, so, if you can do it, root your phone."
Once you start spoofing ESN numbers on a mass scale, and circumventing that $10 surchage, you can guarantee all of this rooting will be put to an end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what you are saying. but it doesn't change my opinion. I wont pay $10 extra month just because they want it. That $10 doesn't give me anything extra I wouldn't get with any other smart phone. When i asked sprint about it, they told me it was for the enhanced data experience or some crap like that - basically telling me it was due to the larger screen or faster proc - both of which i've already paid for when i buy the phone. And even if they want to argue i MIGHT use more data, so what? I'm already pay for 'unlimited' data. They can charge me $10 when i over the 'unlimited' limit.
They already rip us off with the fees they charge for text messages, so i dont have any sympathy for the cell phone companies. I'm not trying to get something for free. I'm willing to keep paying my monthly bill. I'm just not willing to pay a made up fee that doesn't give me any additional service just because i want a phone, that i'll be paying for, with a bigger screen/fast cpu.
bwcorvus said:
The ESN is only on that one phone, and sprint has a database with all sprint activated ESNs. I have heard, sprint will not activate a phone not in their database. As for the ESN "cloning" in can be done, but i believe its not legal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
would an 'unlocked' phone be one that's not in there db?
CTH-EVO said:
FWIW,
As memory serves, Sprint uses both an ESN, and the MAC address to track their customers. It is possible to find, and modify an ESN, and to "spoof" a MAC.
However, other than mention that there are articles in the forums on the ESN (and likely on the MAC). I'll refrain from providing a detailed how-to on the subject - I hope you understand, nothing personal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not taken personally - i'll do some googleing later on the esn and see what i find. thanks
merkk said:
I understand what you are saying. but it doesn't change my opinion. I wont pay $10 extra month just because they want it. That $10 doesn't give me anything extra I wouldn't get with any other smart phone. When i asked sprint about it, they told me it was for the enhanced data experience or some crap like that - basically telling me it was due to the larger screen or faster proc - both of which i've already paid for when i buy the phone. And even if they want to argue i MIGHT use more data, so what? I'm already pay for 'unlimited' data. They can charge me $10 when i over the 'unlimited' limit.
They already rip us off with the fees they charge for text messages, so i dont have any sympathy for the cell phone companies. I'm not trying to get something for free. I'm willing to keep paying my monthly bill. I'm just not willing to pay a made up fee that doesn't give me any additional service just because i want a phone, that i'll be paying for, with a bigger screen/fast cpu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with you, man. I was actually thinking about the dumb-ass explanation that Sprint gave me when I asked them why I'd be charged an extra $10 a month. I remember saying something to the salesgirl like, "You know that's all bull****, right."
Go spoofing to your heart's greatest desire, I'm just saying, when you take money out of someone's pocket, you start drawing more heat.
Just talked my sister that sells phones, she said yes the esn tells sprint the model number...so your only option would be to "clone" the esn of your old phone.
Every single ESN is in sprints database from the beginning of time, notkidding, try and activate a 15 year old phone (ive done it) pulls up model of phone and not only that but history of phone accounts its been on, service thats been performed on the phone previously, if its been reported, lost, stolen, flagged as liquid damage.
Absolutely everything is there and will pull up in accordance to the ESN related t the device.
The absolute only way to do it would be to clone the ESN onto an EVO of a different model and activate it over the phone (in which case some services on your phone may not work properly) but should as long as you select an appropriate device to clone.
Now on to how to clone an ESN...... NO IDEA!! lol sorry, I've never seen it done or come across a situation where it was done, I have however heard of it being done, but its not easy and your going to have to do it yourself, so if your not a programmer, you best take some schooling or give up on the idea (afik)
sprint is cheaper and you get more for your money than any other provider per value and the only major carrier cheaper afik is T-mobile or small company's, time to get over it boys and girls, its 10$ it goes to a good cause, you eat up a crapload of bandwidth and it costs alot of money to expand the network (you want good service right?) if not just goto ATT
oh and it always gives you additional service, it just depends if your in 4g coverage or not, if you go there its available to you, !! I do agree that they should have an option to disable 4G and then you dont have to pay for it.
but thats just not the situation.
Should my monthly bill be cheaper because my house is in a roaming area and I don't get 3G? why isn't my bill cheaper than yours because you getz da 3g's!?!
Stop being so simple minded, seriously, the service is available to you on the network, just not where you live.
It is what it is, and until they make it so you can disable 4g and not get charged there's nothing thats going to change this situation, your still paying less than verizon and ATT
You're question has been answered. Yes it is bs that I pay an extra 10 for nothing. That 10 is a 4g charge by the way. Don't know why no one mentioned that. But I don't even get 4g in my town. None the less, Sprint still has the cheapest plans for what you get. Trust me I have checked. With my unlimited everything 450 minutes and 4g I can get out the door at 80. Compare that to atts 100. But as was said, cloaning an esn would not be legal and I'm not sure that road of discusssion should be taken. Its a buzz kill that you'd have to upgrade your plan. But you have the choice.
Alanmw86 said:
Every single ESN is in sprints database from the beginning of time, notkidding, try and activate a 15 year old phone (ive done it) pulls up model of phone and not only that but history of phone accounts its been on, service thats been performed on the phone previously, if its been reported, lost, stolen, flagged as liquid damage.
Absolutely everything is there and will pull up in accordance to the ESN related t the device.
The absolute only way to do it would be to clone the ESN onto an EVO of a different model and activate it over the phone (in which case some services on your phone may not work properly) but should as long as you select an appropriate device to clone.
Now on to how to clone an ESN...... NO IDEA!! lol sorry, I've never seen it done or come across a situation where it was done, I have however heard of it being done, but its not easy and your going to have to do it yourself, so if your not a programmer, you best take some schooling or give up on the idea (afik)
sprint is cheaper and you get more for your money than any other provider per value and the only major carrier cheaper afik is T-mobile or small company's, time to get over it boys and girls, its 10$ it goes to a good cause, you eat up a crapload of bandwidth and it costs alot of money to expand the network (you want good service right?) if not just goto ATT
oh and it always gives you additional service, it just depends if your in 4g coverage or not, if you go there its available to you, !! I do agree that they should have an option to disable 4G and then you dont have to pay for it.
but thats just not the situation.
Should my monthly bill be cheaper because my house is in a roaming area and I don't get 3G? why isn't my bill cheaper than yours because you getz da 3g's!?!
Stop being so simple minded, seriously, the service is available to you on the network, just not where you live.
It is what it is, and until they make it so you can disable 4g and not get charged there's nothing thats going to change this situation, your still paying less than verizon and ATT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree that $10 is $10... what r u honestly gonna do with that extra $10 a month... It wont go very far elsewhere... If ur that worried about money maybe u should switch to Metro or prepaid. Why not use that $10 to enhance ur mobile phone experience? As long as u know the ramifications of cloning esns and that it's a serious FEDERAL crime nd not some silly civil misdemeanor and that there is not a one click method to do it like rooting a phone then have at it but also beware that some services may not work. And yes compare ATT and or Verizon and see how much better of a deal ur getting with sprint even with the $10 4g surcharge... if u don't want to pay it then switch to TMo and buy the nexus one... it's just as good as the EVO without the 4g surcharge...
im not 100% certain how illegal it is to clone an ESN, so long as the the ESN you are cloning is your own.
but im certain its something thats not worth your time either way.
BTW there is as of October 1 a new plan called SERO Premium which will work with the newer phones such as Android phones and Palm Pre. The rate plan is $40 so the EVO would be $50 including the extra fee. Not quite the $30 you're currently paying, but it is cheaper than EPRP and includes Any Mobile, Anytime.
Don't go that route. Definitely illegal, even if its your own esn. As per the fcc;
Fraud
Cellular fraud is defined as the unauthorized use, tampering, or manipulation of a cellular phone or service. Cellular industry estimates indicate that carriers lose millions per year to cellular fraud, with the principal cause being subscription fraud. Subscriber fraud occurs when a subscriber signs up for service with fraudulently obtained customer information or false identification.
In the past, cloning of cellular phones was a major concern. A cloned cellular telephone is one that has been reprogrammed to transmit the electronic serial number (ESN) and telephone number (MIN) belonging to another (legitimate) cellular telephone. Unscrupulous persons obtain valid ESN/MIN combinations by illegally monitoring the transmissions from the cellular telephones of legitimate subscribers. Each cellular telephone is supposed to have a unique factory-set ESN. After cloning, however, because both cellular telephones have the same ESN/MIN combination, cellular systems cannot distinguish the cloned cellular telephone from the legitimate one.
The Commission considers any knowing use of cellular telephone with an altered ESN to be a violation of the Communications Act (Section 301) and alteration of the ESN in a cellular telephone to be assisting in such violation. The Wireless Telephone Protection Act (Public Law 105-172) was signed into law on April 24, 1998, expanding the prior law to criminalize the use, possession, manufacture or sale of cloning hardware or software. The cellular equipment manufacturing industry has deployed authentication systems that have proven to be a very effective countermeasure to cloning. Authentication supplements the use of the ESN and MIN with a changing encrypted code that can not be obtained by off-the-air monitoring.
And the $10 fee has nothing to do with 4g - its a front facing camera fee. Every new Sprint phone with a front facing camera will have that fee.
Sent from my blah blah blah blah
merkk said:
I understand what you are saying. but it doesn't change my opinion. I wont pay $10 extra month just because they want it. That $10 doesn't give me anything extra I wouldn't get with any other smart phone. When i asked sprint about it, they told me it was for the enhanced data experience or some crap like that - basically telling me it was due to the larger screen or faster proc - both of which i've already paid for when i buy the phone. And even if they want to argue i MIGHT use more data, so what? I'm already pay for 'unlimited' data. They can charge me $10 when i over the 'unlimited' limit.
They already rip us off with the fees they charge for text messages, so i dont have any sympathy for the cell phone companies. I'm not trying to get something for free. I'm willing to keep paying my monthly bill. I'm just not willing to pay a made up fee that doesn't give me any additional service just because i want a phone, that i'll be paying for, with a bigger screen/fast cpu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's an idea. If you do not like paying the cost of the service, do not get the cell phone that requires that. Get something else. That's the luxury you get for having such a great phone.
Also, this should be locked. Anyone that wants to do an illegal activity should just be smacked. The cloning, or manipulation of an esn is a federal offense. 10$ a month/different cell phone > 5 years in jail.
In my now locked other thread it was pointed out that changing the IMEI is illegal. Could someone point me to the law that covers this for the USA? I haven't been having much luck with google.
If you like you must know
Read it
http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-i...-anysmartphone-even-sans-contract-104959.html
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
I don't see a link to the law in that thread. I have seen many people say that it is illegal, but I have yet to find any US law about it. Is everyone making an assumption here?
Oh its certainly illegal. You'll get more time for changing your imei than you would if you slapped your wife. Bad example? oh well
Ends said:
Oh its certainly illegal. You'll get more time for changing your imei than you would if you slapped your wife. Bad example? oh well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my point. Everyone says this but can't seem to point to the law. I am looking for the actual law that covers this. Can someone point this out?
I do not and will not claim to know the answer to this question, but i would imagine the place to start looking for this type of information would be the FCC.
If your so determined to see this "law" a very simple google search yeilds the answer.
thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.3186.IS:
Here is your answer now can we get this closed because I'm very opposed to changing imei number.
3 weeks ago my cousin was killed over his phone and the imei number of the phone is what helped catch the scumbag.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda premium
I'm sorry for your loss. And thank you for settling this.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747
imei's are used for good, but sadly carriers use them to squeeze extra money out of you by tracking you and forcing extra services on you..
there's plenty of people who have posted imei tweaks, but they get pulled right away.. imei changing isn't illegal everywhere, but sadly it is in us/uk, so xda is a bad place to try and find such things..
android china is fair game tho!
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
there is no such law in the usa ANYWHERE but still its hard to find info on it
meleii said:
If your so determined to see this "law" a very simple google search yeilds the answer.
thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.3186.IS:
Here is your answer now can we get this closed because I'm very opposed to changing imei number.
3 weeks ago my cousin was killed over his phone and the imei number of the phone is what helped catch the scumbag.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That looks like law to me.
---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 AM ----------
boricuastar77 said:
there is no such law in the usa ANYWHERE but still its hard to find info on it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.maybe you should have read all the posts on this thread
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-121 here is law you looking for but i don't know how illigal it is.
As far as I'm concerned,
A lot of people would fall under the exception "`(d) Exception- Subsection (b) shall not apply to the manufacturer of a mobile device or a person who repairs or refurbishes a mobile device unless the manufacturer or person knows that the mobile device or part involved is stolen.'."
since the phone (hopefully) is not stolen. You can consider yourself as the person refurbishing your own phone.
Then again, you're probably not going to find the information you want (I want it too) on this site, or any other site out there, because it will have international repercussions (other countries explicitly make IMEI modifications illegal).
Then again, I find it stupid that information on "how to do this" is not widely available - information for a lot of "illegal" stuff is already widely available ._.
Maybe some nice guy out there will start fiddling around with android's IMEI systems, and let us know about it. After all, the IMEI is something the manufacturer maintains, and corporations use, not something that the government enforces. Technology (and pretty much everything else) moves along way too fast for the political system to catch up to it.
meleii said:
If your so determined to see this "law" a very simple google search yeilds the answer.
thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.3186.IS:
Here is your answer now can we get this closed because I'm very opposed to changing imei number.
3 weeks ago my cousin was killed over his phone and the imei number of the phone is what helped catch the scumbag.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s3186
Code:
S. 3186 (112th): Mobile Device Theft Deterrence Act of 2012
Introduced:
May 15, 2012 (112th Congress, 2011–2013)
Sponsor:
Sen. Charles Schumer [D-NY]
Status:
[B][U]Died[/U][/B] (Referred to Committee)
next google search? I've tried... can't get any straight answer so far
(the bill makes "modifing IMEI" = federal crime... which suggests it's NOT a federal crime right now to modify IMEI......?)
could still be a state/local crime (unlikely), or something that's covered under civil law and not criminal
@mods, this thread is healthy discussion about whether it's legal/illegal to modify IMEI (in USA), not a "how-to modify IMEI tutorial"... dont close it, move it to general topic?
It is illegal and has been for many years.
Wayne Tech S-III
zelendel said:
It is illegal and has been for many years.
Wayne Tech S-III
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
source?
(I want something like the Congress bill posted above, but something that's actually active or passed by Congress)
I just see "oh, its illegal..."... who said it was illegal?
Is there some explicit law against it?
Or some cursory FCC regulation that might prohibit it, and was never explicitly outlawed, or there was a court case that set precedence for it?
As I said, if we need a bill to make tampering IMEI a federal crime, this means it's currently NOT a federal crime to modify IMEI?
----- part 2 of my google sleuthing-----
According to FCC Section 22.919, modifying ESNs is illegal...
However, ESN and IMEI are not the same (ESN identifies both the physical phone AND the phone subscriber, while IMEI only identifies the physical phone, with the SIM card providing the phone subscriber identifier)
Also, FCC 22.919 was repealed in 2003
http://etler.com/FCC/pdf/WT/WT 01-108/FCC 04-22.pdf
Search for "The Commission appropriately removed section 22.919 which set out electronic serial
number (ESN) hardware design requirements"
After reviewing the original purpose of the rule,
the advanced fraud control technologies measures developed to combat fraud since the adoption of the
rule, as well as comments submitted in the proceeding, the Commission concluded that the ESN
requirements were no longer necessary as a preventative measure against cellular cloning fraud. 127 The
Commission therefore removed section 22.919 of its rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will try to hunt the the FCC regulation on on it. Been awhile since I needed to post it as this is common knowledge among phone developers. It was passed a long time ago to prevent cloning.
Here is one article but I will find the one that states IMEI directly. This one states pretty much everything done here is illegal lol
Wayne Tech S-III
Any law any country... Changing IMEI is a criminal offence... God forbid if you change your IMEI to that of any known criminal... You think its worth the risk?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III
diablo009 said:
Any law any country... Changing IMEI is a criminal offence... God forbid if you change your IMEI to that of any known criminal... You think its worth the risk?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, am I allowed to change my Phone A's IMEI to my Phone B's IMEI, with both phones legally bought?
this is just a curiosity exercise... and I'm asking "WHERE IN THE USA <insert code of law, FCC guidelines...> is modifying IMEI illegal"... you haven't answered my question
example: In UK, it is illegal due to this Mobile Telephones (Re-programming) Act 2002 passed in 2002.. but then there's a loophole (i can modify IMEI if I created the device, or the manufacture allowed me to)... (I havent read any of the amendments to see if those loopholes are changed)
^^ I want someone to answer me in that format, with reference to USA laws
Illegal?
While I am sorry for your loss meleii, that was simply a bill that didn't make it past a senate vote....much like SOPA and CISPA. While I am glad that a murderer was brought to justice, that isn't the purpose of the IMEI, any more that a session cookie is to keep you from cheating at online games. It helps sometimes, but that's incidental to it's actual purpose.
I can think of several reasons that someone might want to change their IMEI, like having a smartphone but only wanting a voice plan, or for that matter using a tablet's IMEI to have a data only plan. If you've made the jump to full on internet communication (Skype, SIP and the like) then a voice/text plan is simply a subsidy for everyone else's usage.
That being said, it is illegal in several countries, most notably the UK. It is also against every carriers EULA, but so is almost everything that is done in these hallowed halls....like wifi and bluetooth tethering without paying for a plan that includes it, installing software OSs on devices that were never intended to have it, or releasing the DRM deathgrip on content.
Saying that something is bad, wrong, immoral, or even just a piss poor idea that is bound to cause headaches for yourself and damage the image of the modding community is one thing, but to say something is illegal without being able to produce a law doesn't hold up.
If anyone does find the text prohibiting this in the wild, like buried in the text of the DMCA, or in an obscure FCC regulation, I stand ready to apologize and take back everything I've said.
Like any useful tool, it's only as good or bad as the people using it. I've used my lock picks to help friends get into their homes when they got locked out, and thieves use them to get into peoples homes to steal. I don't condone or make excuses for people dealing in the stolen phone market, but they aren't the only reason for this to exist.
MOD Edit: Contents removed, if its illegal, its not allowed on XDA.
I don't think your crazy, but it is illegal. This thread will most likely get closed due to the illegal nature of this. Good luck if you try though. It *should* work.
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
antp121 said:
I don't think your crazy, but it is illegal. This thread will most likely get closed due to the illegal nature of this. Good luck if you try though. It *should* work.
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This sort of stuff can be used for fraud. As highlighted by a FCC quote:
Cellular fraud is defined as the unauthorized use, tampering, or manipulation of a cellular phone or service. Cellular industry estimates indicate that carriers lose millions per year to cellular fraud, with the principal cause being subscription fraud. Subscriber fraud occurs when a subscriber signs up for service with fraudulently obtained customer information or false identification.
In the past, cloning of cellular phones was a major concern. A cloned cellular telephone is one that has been reprogrammed to transmit the electronic serial number (ESN) and telephone number (MIN) belonging to another (legitimate) cellular telephone. Unscrupulous persons obtain valid ESN/MIN combinations by illegally monitoring the transmissions from the cellular telephones of legitimate subscribers. Each cellular telephone is supposed to have a unique factory-set ESN. After cloning, however, because both cellular telephones have the same ESN/MIN combination, cellular systems cannot distinguish the cloned cellular telephone from the legitimate one.
The Commission considers any knowing use of cellular telephone with an altered ESN to be a violation of the Communications Act (Section 301) and alteration of the ESN in a cellular telephone to be assisting in such violation. The Wireless Telephone Protection Act (Public Law 105-172) was signed into law on April 24, 1998, expanding the prior law to criminalize the use, possession, manufacture or sale of cloning hardware or software. The cellular equipment manufacturing industry has deployed authentication systems that have proven to be a very effective countermeasure to cloning. Authentication supplements the use of the ESN and MIN with a changing encrypted code that can not be obtained by off-the-air monitoring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As this sort of thing can be used for the purpose of fraud, it is not allowed on XDA.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01...ile-phones-becomes-illegal-in-the-us-tomorrow
I think it applies to a carrier unlock., not a bootloader for custom roms.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app
"You have 48 hours."
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app
Carrier unlocking is what it's talking about. This is also further proof that the the United States is has become "by the corporation for the corporation".
" Unlocking a phone frees it from restrictions that keep the device from working on more than one carrier's network, allowing it run on other networks that use the same wireless standard. This can be useful to international travellers who need their phones to work on different networks. Other people just like the freedom of being able to switch carriers as they please. "
Assimilated using the interface that interacts with the advanced internet.
unlocking becomes the new jailbreaking lol
I didn't see this thread, hopefully a Mod will have mercy on me and delete my thread.
The basis of this law being passed is so weak that it really does make me quite concerned that the rooting community is going to come into focus before long. The judge ruled that unlocking a phone infringes on copyright laws, which it really doesn't, and I suspect that long term the rooting community will be a target. You can already see from companies like Motorola and now HTC that this is an area of concern for them.
Personally I am concerned for it, but would hope that companies that openly support rooting like Samsung and Google will come to our aid.
If the government DOES take action against rooting, I would hope that a judge would look at an OS like Android and rule that rooting cannot by definition be illegal since everything is open source. But we all know how that is likely to go.
I registered and signed the petition. Not sure if it'll do much, but hope it catches attention.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda premium
It only applies to carrier unlocking, it does not affect unlock bootloaders.
latindor17 said:
It only applies to carrier unlocking, it does not affect unlock bootloaders.
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With an immediate outlook you are absolutely correct. The problem here is the precedent that is being set.
If courts rule that simply unlocking a phone that is no longer "leased" per the terms of a contract is copyright infringement, there is not a huge jump for the courts to then apply this to the rooting community. Companies are already laying groundwork against custom ROMs, like HTC, Motorola, and to an extent Apple with the jailbreaking community. This could snowball in the future and make life really miserable for anyone wanting to root.
Copypasta from other thread.
Technically, the issue I see here is that you're 'leasing the phone' from the telco. This is apparent because if you cancel your service before the contract expires, you pay a 'fee' associated with a 'termination'. If you don't return the phone they 'gave' you, you are also charged another fee. They technically 'own' the phone until you've fulfilled the contract (afaik), therefore, they can legally tell you 'you can't use this phone on another service provider until you fulfill the terms you agreed to with us'.
Now if that contract later on specifies 'you shall not use software on your device unless it is specifically approved by acme telco.' or the like, then I could see a strong case for 'rooting is illegal' as you technically 'agree' to the service contract when you purchase service from that provider.
NOTE: You can still purchase unlocked phones from the service provider (or manufacturer) but they're usually more expensive (you know that discount you get from sprint? that's cause they pay for the rest of the phone, in the hopes that you won't default on the contract you sign.)
I like how you added in the part about "no longer "leased" per the terms of a contract" as that does change the argument you present, however, that's not what's at issue here. What's at issue here is you 'carrier unlocking' a phone that you specifically agreed to use on their network, so you can use it on another network (technically, this is a breech of contract, and technically you've defaulted if you do this by not following the terms of the contract).
benmatlock said:
Copypasta from other thread.
Technically, the issue I see here is that you're 'leasing the phone' from the telco. This is apparent because if you cancel your service before the contract expires, you pay a 'fee' associated with a 'termination'. If you don't return the phone they 'gave' you, you are also charged another fee. They technically 'own' the phone until you've fulfilled the contract (afaik), therefore, they can legally tell you 'you can't use this phone on another service provider until you fulfill the terms you agreed to with us'.
Now if that contract later on specifies 'you shall not use software on your device unless it is specifically approved by acme telco.' or the like, then I could see a strong case for 'rooting is illegal' as you technically 'agree' to the service contract when you purchase service from that provider.
NOTE: You can still purchase unlocked phones from the service provider (or manufacturer) but they're usually more expensive (you know that discount you get from sprint? that's cause they pay for the rest of the phone, in the hopes that you won't default on the contract you sign.)
I like how you added in the part about "no longer "leased" per the terms of a contract" as that does change the argument you present, however, that's not what's at issue here. What's at issue here is you 'carrier unlocking' a phone that you specifically agreed to use on their network, so you can use it on another network (technically, this is a breech of contract, and technically you've defaulted if you do this by not following the terms of the contract).
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What I have read on this legislation is that regardless of whether or not you are still in the contract you may not unlock the subsidized phone sold to you by the phone company. I am the first to admit my understanding of this is far from perfect, but what I have read indicates that you CANNOT unlock the phone regardless of whether or not you are in the contract. This is, in my opinion, an area that the telephone companies should not be able to regulate. I took the "lease" terminology from the post you referenced earlier. In reality this is not a lease as much as it is a "lease to own" situation. The company does not request the phone back after the contract expires and cedes ownership of the property at that point to the individual. Under these circumstances the contract to use the phone specifically on their network is fulfilled.
I agree with you completely that while still under contract this is a completely valid legislation, and users should understand the terms of the contract, but it has also been reported extensively that the legislation extends beyond the end of the contract and allows phone companies to enforce these copyright laws after the expiration of the contract. THIS is the precedent that concerns me for the rooting community.
Xiutehcuhtli said:
What I have read on this legislation is that regardless of whether or not you are still in the contract you may not unlock the subsidized phone sold to you by the phone company. I am the first to admit my understanding of this is far from perfect, but what I have read indicates that you CANNOT unlock the phone regardless of whether or not you are in the contract. This is, in my opinion, an area that the telephone companies should not be able to regulate. I took the "lease" terminology from the post you referenced earlier. In reality this is not a lease as much as it is a "lease to own" situation. The company does not request the phone back after the contract expires and cedes ownership of the property at that point to the individual. Under these circumstances the contract to use the phone specifically on their network is fulfilled.
I agree with you completely that while still under contract this is a completely valid legislation, and users should understand the terms of the contract, but it has also been reported extensively that the legislation extends beyond the end of the contract and allows phone companies to enforce these copyright laws after the expiration of the contract. THIS is the precedent that concerns me for the rooting community.
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Well, what I have read on the legislation (just got done reading the jist of the part about phones) from the verbage, it implies that carriers (like AT&T for example) offer 'unlocking provisions' that allow you to unlock the device after the expiration of the contract.
benmatlock said:
Well, what I have read on the legislation (just got done reading the jist of the part about phones) from the verbage, it implies that carriers (like AT&T for example) offer 'unlocking provisions' that allow you to unlock the device after the expiration of the contract.
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I will read some more at work tomorrow. Too late for me to put that thinking cap on.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app
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VoluntaryMan said:
It's not illegal for me since I'm using Ting which doesn't frown upon customers running custom ROMs or rooting routing their phones.
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It's not illegal to use custom ROMs yet for anyone.
Unlocking phones is still legal for phones purchased before the 27th. For most people, this law will only affect you with the next phone that you buy.
Thinking about this..
How would they ever be able to figure out you've done this? Are they going to call other Service Providers and ask "hey man, you got this imei on your network??"
They aren't going after the users. Just the sellers of unlocked phone as its the process of unlocking that's supposedly now illegal.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app
I would say at this point for all of us here in this forum at least would understand that Sprint as our carrier as well as Verizon will not ever ever allow a non carrier specific ESN on there network , even if say someone were to flash one of our devices to cricket or metro they would no longer be allowed to switch that device back.
So this law that is highly geared towards aggravated theft and people being hurt even killed over there very expensive smartphone (let's be totally honest iSuck ) and with out any hassle putting it on a different carrier and not be traced, has nothing to do with the rooting community or custom ROMs especially here on xda where it is moderated to not allow copyright infringement or taking credit for any company's work
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app
Hi
I wanted to share a recent story with all of you, what happened with my experience. 4 months ago, I purchased an S3 from someone off of CL. I am extremely careful with purchasing mobiles from there, due to the possibility of getting screwed out of hard earned money that only benefits the person screwing you. Before I purchased the mobile, I did an IMEI validation through T-Mobile's web service, along with a couple more IMEI checks. T-Mobile's web service advised that the phone was not reported lost or stolen and that it was ready for activation. The other web services reported the same result, so based on what is supposed to be a reliable source of information, especially from the carrier itself, I bought the mobile.
GoSmart wouldn't add the phone to my plan because they said the phone had been blacklisted as lost and/or stolen. I told GSm that was impossible since the carrier who issues the device reported the phone clean. This started what turned out to be a 3 month battle between myself and T-Mobile. I phone them up, and after a bit of "we're checking, hang on" or "give me just a few minutes more as I am having to access another system", they informed me that indeed the phone had a lost/stolen insurance claim on it and that the IMEI was blocked. I escalated to a supervisor, only to be told the same information. I explained to them that had their web service been working at the time I used it, I would not have made the purchase. And for the next month, once per week, I continued discussing with customer service, along with checking their IMEI site showing that the phone was still reported clean. They advised me that Asurion claims and blocks do not show on the IMEI site, and I told her that the customer is in the dark about that, and there is no disclaimer on the site alerting anyone of this fact. I also wanted to verify #1 that I was not losing my mind, and #2 to make sure I was on solid enough ground to insist to be escalated to someone in TMo's IT department. I wanted someone to first explain to me why their web service was not accurate, and 2nd to make sure that someone who could make that change to their system got the ball rolling on fixing their web service so that some other unfortunate soul would have to go through what I'd been through so far.
Enter Alisha, systems analyst from TMo IT. Out of anyone who I have ever talked with in any customer service arena, she was by far the best, sympathetic, and understanding person I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with. Ever. I told her I was a system analyst, I know what they go through when it comes to issues like this and that it needed to be resolved. She then did what no one in customer service offered to do for me, and that was to check both systems to see if I was telling the truth. And sure enough, she discovered that they did in fact have an issue. Even after this discovery, she said that due to the phone being blocked by Asurion that she was powerless to do anything. I told her that the hope of the phone being unblocked was well in the past now, by goal was to get them to fix the problem that forced me down this road in the first place.
The end is near I promise. I still think I was wronged on the business side of the equation, so I went to the BBB and filed a complaint. The following Friday, I receive a call from TMo Customer Service, and after an hour on the phone the gentleman told me that due to the way the claim was filed, that he would open a ticket to send to the team that would be able to unlock the phone and that it would be unlocked by that coming Monday. I was elated. Monday comes, and the phone is still locked. I call customer service again, only to be told "the gentleman who told you that did not have the authority to do so, and did not have the means to make a promise like that due to the phone being insurance blocked." I went off, stating that their company's inability to effectively train their employees, especially those who handle escalated issues was not my concern. She apologize profusely. I went back to the BBB and updated my ticket, stating that the company made an obligation to me, they didn't follow through and to contact the business again. 2 days later, an email arrives from TMo stating the obvious "Mr Harrison should not have purchased a phone from an unauthorized source, yadda, yadda", followed by "due to the nature of the circumstances, we are willing to make a 1 time exception for him and have unblocked the IMEI number." My phone was unblocked and remains unblocked today.
I wanted to share my story with all of you because the bottom line is that until you pick up that phone and talk to someone voice to voice at TMo, do not use the IMEI site as your only source of verification. I thought I was safe by using not only their site, but 2 others, and a call to the police to see if the phone was stolen, but I wasn't safe. Use the site as a preliminary determining factor, but then pick up the phone and talk to their customer service directly to make sure the site is telling you right. And when they tell you it is, then double-check to make sure the phone does not have an insurance IMEI block on it.
Thanks!
I don't think you understand that yes the phone was fine before you bought it but afterwards the person who sold it to you reported it stolen, and probably got another one after paying a deductible while still making money off of the one sold to you. You keep repeating about before you bought it, but you failed to realize its a common scam on CL and you should really be careful next time. You're lucky T-Mobile hooked you up though.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Though there may have been a breakdown in the systems being able to communicate, it still doesn't change the fact that the phone you bought was stolen. You can argue specifics about who told you what and when, but in the end it doesn't change the fact that the device is stolen property.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset about getting scammed, but you sound like you are trying to vent all your anger in T-Mobile's direction, when it is not their fault that someone stole a device from them and used it to scam you. It's the criminal who stole the phone and then stole your money that you should be most angry with.
Sure, you didn't know that you weren't getting info from all the sources you should have, probably would've been the same for me and everyone else, but it's not really anyone's fault. They have been updating the way blacklists work for some time now, and while it's getting better, we can't expect instant perfection.
I am glad you shared that T-Mobile doesn't currently have their blacklist synced to Asurions btw, that is very good to know. I just think your anger is a little misplaced is all. From what I've read T-Mobile has been one of the more proactive in sharing blacklist info. Currently they share theirs with AT&T, possibly others.
As I understand it though, in a few months this should all become a bit of a non issue. I've been told that they will be implementing a nationwide blacklist, that all carriers and insurance companies will use, so there will only be one to worry about, and when a device is added to the list, it is instantly blocked everywhere in the US (and maybe Canada).
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, but I consider you extremely lucky to have got them to unblock it. I seriously doubt that would've happened anywhere else. I'm happy for you that they did nonetheless.
Sent from my SGH-T999N using Tapatalk
@dudenphx
First off, allow me to commiserate with your travails. I really do feel bad for you. I am glad it has ended well in the end.
It is a great discovery you made that T-Mo IMEI Checker does not have Asurion Blocks. That alone in my mind gives you Kudos that you greatly deserve. I thank you for that.
So to the problem per se. I am afraid I agree with Doc. You did check on CL Scams. But that was probably was not sufficient. The modus operendi of CL Scam is to Report Stolen AFTER the Sale Not before .
If at all I am buying a phone on Craig's list, I'd first take the IMEI to Assurion and have them Change Ownership on their records for that IMEI. This is similar to Vehicle VIN Number registration to DMV. After that, I'd call the Carriers to do the same thing. Only after that has happened, that I will pay the seller the full amount. I am sure this is not a foolproof way, but at the least I can hang it on Assurion so they don't block the IMEI. If I know them any better, they will still wriggle out of that and block it. But may be I am the half empty kind.
Thanks
Perseus71,
Thanks for the kind words. It felt like Rudolph vs the Abominable Snow Monster, and that really sucked.
There has to be a solution that isn't 100% airtight (nothing is these days), but something that would be as low of a risk as possible. Have you called Asurion before and did the ownership change? What would they require for this to be done? I like buying stuff on CL, this was the first bad experience I had, but I would like to continue buying on CL. The risks are there, but isn't life full of risks anyway?
thanks!