Develop Bugs

NFC Transit Pass Cloning

Hey guys I had a curious thought. I downloaded an NFC tag reader and was able to read some basic info from my Boston MBTA CharlieCard. I know it's a mifare classic chip. I was wondering how hard/legal it would be to somehow clone the card info so I could use my phone to pay the fare. Already dabbled with google wallet so I love the idea of getting rid of crap in my pocket. My door locks are next
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Sweet, I used NFC Classic which can ave it and use it as a new profile..it read my bus pass, and even my chase visa credit card! I'll have to test it next week on the bus.
It pulls two profiles off the card, I'm not sure which to use.

MrIcky said:
Hey guys I had a curious thought. I downloaded an NFC tag reader and was able to read some basic info from my Boston MBTA CharlieCard. I know it's a mifare classic chip. I was wondering how hard/legal it would be to somehow clone the card info so I could use my phone to pay the fare. Already dabbled with google wallet so I love the idea of getting rid of crap in my pocket. My door locks are next
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I JUST moved to Boston and am taking the red line into work every day. If you can get this working or find someone who can let me know. This would be the ideal solution.

Anyone know of a way to do this? Seems like Farebot in the market does what I'm asking in other markets. My knowledge of this stuff gets weak beyond flashing roms and troubleshooting phones
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Galaxy nexus has NFC emulation disabled, so you can't do what you want to do

jairmoreno said:
Galaxy nexus has NFC emulation disabled, so you can't do what you want to do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Disabled as in its a software setting or disabled as in the chip physically cant do it? Im guessing if the possibility exists someone will figure out a way to make it work. It IS a dev phone after all...

ErisMike said:
Disabled as in its a software setting or disabled as in the chip physically cant do it? Im guessing if the possibility exists someone will figure out a way to make it work. It IS a dev phone after all...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not disabled insomuch as it's not even in the public API.
If it uses NDEF as a messaging container you can use NDEF push (you'll likely need to write your own app for this, but it wouldn't be terribly difficult) - otherwise emulation of other card types / protocols just isn't present currently.
AFAIK Farebot only reads the data as well.

Anyone willing to accept that as a challenge?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Another user on XDA, m0rtadelo, created a patch for the Nexus S 2.4.1_r1:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1281946
Maybe we can see his changes and port them to the GN ICS?

Any news on this front?
it would be wonderful to have the ability to open the doors at school with my phone rather than picking up my wallet

I too am interested. I'm in Montreal and we use the same tech with our BUS cards, so does my gym and work card. It would be awesome if my phone could completely replace my wallet.
please, if anyone knows of someone working on this let me know. I'm willing to donate for the cause.

i think everyone is pretty keen for nfc emulation! just have to find someone with the skills and motivation to do it. with NFC becoming more widespread, im sure that someone will pick up the task, especially with the nexus.

This would be awesome!

So since my OP the MBTA has mobile payment options for the commuter rail. Anyone know any other ways?

TWIC Card Reader App

Does anyone know of an APP that will utilize the NFC of the Nexus to read a TWIC Card?
TWIC: Transportation Worker Identification Credential (TWIC®)
*** I have tried many of the NFC card reader apps available on the Market Place but none are able to read anything beyond the type of chip that is in the card.

I'm thinking you will not find an app that can read the chip.
The TWIC card requires a background check just to get from the gov. My guess is its encrypted and can only be read on a gov computer using a certain program and only that program. Just like the new military IDs.

I read an article back in November where I guy wrote an app that could do that. I have looked everywhere but can't find it. It was just a blog. The reviews were mixed on its success but if you keep looking you may find it.

If there was an app for that it's been removed more than likely. Besides, what would this app benefit? The facility that uses twic are high security and prohibits cell phones with cameras.

Treken said:
If there was an app for that it's been removed more than likely. Besides, what would this app benefit? The facility that uses twic are high security and prohibits cell phones with cameras.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scan your badge, unlock your phone?

J Shed said:
Scan your badge, unlock your phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Copy radio signature from card. Unlock door.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App

I own a twic card. I like these ideas using it to unlock your personal stuff. At $125-150 a pop, I think you ought to be able to use it for above mentioned.

Treken said:
If there was an app for that it's been removed more than likely. Besides, what would this app benefit? The facility that uses twic are high security and prohibits cell phones with cameras.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on the facility. A TWIC card is not like a "Secret" or "Top Secret" access card. It is basically an ID card you receive after a lengthy background check so that you can access certain transportation facilities (i.e. Ports).
The benefit to an app like this is to be able to scan the card to determine authenticity and perhaps read the identification information on the card as well. In lieu of purchasing some of the more expensive hardware readers that are on the market today. This app would allow for some small level of confidence when cards are checked in some smaller facilities which do not have the budget like the larger ones.

Any luck finding something to read these? Just found by accident my TWIC was being scanned when I put the phone on top of the card today and got me curious as well.

Treken said:
If there was an app for that it's been removed more than likely. Besides, what would this app benefit? The facility that uses twic are high security and prohibits cell phones with cameras.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope.
The facility I work at requires a TWIC, but let's us keep our phones and/or cameras. There is no specific policy here about pictures.

Without card emulation, what's the point of NFC?

When I bought my Nexus, one of the main attractions was NFC. Sure, Google Wallet is pretty cool, but the novelty is wearing off. I don't have any real uses for NFC tags. And I only know one other person with a Nexus, so Beam is pretty much useless.
One of the benefits of NFC that I was hoping for was card emulation. I thought I'd be able to head to my school, get the access keys for our RFID cards and then emulate this with my Nexus so that I could open the doors and buy food with my phone - no need to remember the card anymore.
However, upon further reading, it seems that Google won't be allowing us to emulate cards freely. Maybe I've interpreted my findings incorrectly but... it looks like this is the reason why there aren't any emulation apps for Android other than bloody Wallet.
Card emulation is probably the biggest attraction of NFC - instead of carrying around all the diffeent ID cards for the buildings you enter, they can instead be stored on your phone.. It's not like Google Wallet will raise awareness of NFC, since Google seem to be trying their hardest to make sure that it fails (incredibly slow roll out, even for Google).

WhiterThanWhite said:
I don't have any real uses for NFC tags.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For you, there is no point.

WhiterThanWhite said:
Card emulation is probably the biggest attraction of NFC - instead of carrying around all the diffeent ID cards for the buildings you enter, they can instead be stored on your phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be great if this can be implemented. However,
I don't know if NFC can communicate with existing RFID Card readers
There might be a security risk if copying and using RFID cards from your phone is easy

WhiterThanWhite said:
When I bought my Nexus, one of the main attractions was NFC. Sure, Google Wallet is pretty cool, but the novelty is wearing off. I don't have any real uses for NFC tags. And I only know one other person with a Nexus, so Beam is pretty much useless.
One of the benefits of NFC that I was hoping for was card emulation. I thought I'd be able to head to my school, get the access keys for our RFID cards and then emulate this with my Nexus so that I could open the doors and buy food with my phone - no need to remember the card anymore.
However, upon further reading, it seems that Google won't be allowing us to emulate cards freely. Maybe I've interpreted my findings incorrectly but... it looks like this is the reason why there aren't any emulation apps for Android other than bloody Wallet.
Card emulation is probably the biggest attraction of NFC - instead of carrying around all the diffeent ID cards for the buildings you enter, they can instead be stored on your phone.. It's not like Google Wallet will raise awareness of NFC, since Google seem to be trying their hardest to make sure that it fails (incredibly slow roll out, even for Google).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simulate the card means you have to decrypt the card first.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Honestly, that sounds like a horrible idea. I definitely wouldn't want anybody to be able to just pick up one of my security/credit cards, emulate it, and use it to their hearts content at all
Besides, I believe most of those types of cards have proprietary api's for communicating / validating. Visa, for example, wouldn't just make their api available to anybody so that you can go out and clone other people's cards.

jav_ said:
Honestly, that sounds like a horrible idea. I definitely wouldn't want anybody to be able to just pick up one of my security/credit cards, emulate it, and use it to their hearts content at all
Besides, I believe most of those types of cards have proprietary api's for communicating / validating. Visa, for example, wouldn't just make their api available to anybody so that you can go out and clone other people's cards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand that my first post was quite long, but you (and the two people who replied before you) didn't fully read it.
I'm not proposing that we allow people to be able to duplicate cards willy-nilly. Like I mentioned, I have the access keys to my school's system. You need the access keys to be able to read data from cards like these, so if some random person with a Nexus found your door card, they wouldn't simply be able to dupe it. They'd need the access keys, which I had to get from the IT department.
Well, that's my basic understanding of how it works anyways.

You could just tape your card to the back of your phone; nothing extra to carry.

Incredibly pessimistic rant that is extremely unique to you imo.
Google wallet is more about the convenience than a short-lived novelty item like a 'magic 8-ball'
Beam is nice additional feature and I dont think Google were expecting it to change lives!
Custom NFC tags are whatever you want them to be! Maybe you need to be a bit creative and tinker around with them?
Overall what you want out of NFC (which was never advertised as a feature anyhow so I don't know why your so disappointed) would have security implications and I think its better off we don't have this feature!
Disable it or sell the thing on?

The proper way to do this is to go to your school or the people who run your card readers and ask them to support an Android app. Being able to clone a card is a very bad idea for the reasons mentioned (and would be a horrible security flaw in any card system), but nothing is preventing NFC-based card systems from creating an app that will allow you to register your phone instead of a separate card. This is essentially what Yale Locks is doing.

I'm working on a android beam client for PCs. You need an nfc reader of course.
If anyone is interested, I can release it in a few weeks.

The OP has a point though. It's up to the NFC tag to implement security itself. The Galaxy Nexus cannot emulate tags but you can be sure there are devices that do (even nfc-forum.org mentions that feature).
Here's how to get card emulation working on a Nexus S.
Here's why Google didn't implement any API for card emulation mode.

ArmanUV said:
I'm working on a android beam client for PCs. You need an nfc reader of course.
If anyone is interested, I can release it in a few weeks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am interested in your project. Can you please tell us more about what you are doing?
I would like to collaborate and contribute to some ideas.
Cheers,
Shailen.

I think this is a great idea if the security isn't compromised. Having to carry around one less key-card is always a plus!
Would give the NFC an actual legitimate use in my case
ArmanUV said:
I'm working on a android beam client for PCs. You need an nfc reader of course.
If anyone is interested, I can release it in a few weeks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me know if you get this going!

There are access systems that include the ability for NFC smart phones to allow access to buildings/facilities. www.smartid.it is just one of those companies. Not all building access systems are compatible, however.

Just a fyi, cbord is testing nfc for access/etc card uses at Villanova.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...yPWjBA&usg=AFQjCNH_RLNSLsG7Jb-fxA8Q79soxj4KAg
So, be patient...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

I kinda agree with OP since to me NFC is useless. Google Wallet is blocked in my country (doesn't really matter since there are rather not many places where you can pay with NFC cards), the NFC tags have no use and therefore are hard to get, and I don't know a single person with a GNex, or in fact with any NFC enabled phone.
Just another cool gimmick to advertise GNex with. But if better developed and more wide-spread, it might actually come in handy.

Wilsonium said:
There are access systems that include the ability for NFC smart phones to allow access to buildings/facilities. www.smartid.it is just one of those companies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
JosepiOT said:
Just a fyi, cbord is testing nfc for access/etc card uses at Villanova.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that smartID and CBord use the same principle.
CBord uses the CS Gold/aptiQmobile application. How does this application work? Does this app get special access to the secure element on the phone? Do the students use special phones with an OS customised by the company?
What if the phone's battery is dead, will one still be able to unlock doors?
I am interested in knowing how CBord implements this solution? I see that P2P might work in this case, where the student credentials are beamed to the terminal. However, when the battery is dead, one would wish to have a plastic card.
This is where card emulation is important. After enabling card-emulation on my Nexus S, I was still able to get the eSE ID even with the phone off.
What do you think?

I'm going to bump this as i have a ioProx card for the gym that i'd really, really like to have stored on my phone.

Presto Payments

In toronto the transit system here has made a new payment system, an NFC enabled card. I'm wondering if there is a way that I can use my phone to pay/ send the nfc signals to the machines?

HSR in Hamilton also has this transaction system implemented. Would be interesting to see imho.

According to Metrolinx, using NFC-capable apps is definitely in the cards (no pun intended).
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/presto/presto.aspx

TuxOtaku said:
According to Metrolinx, using NFC-capable apps is definitely in the cards (no pun intended).
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/presto/presto.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not trying to bring you down, but they said NFC-capable devices. That could mean, that they might do contracts with Mobile Network Operators or so and install an app on the secure element. So we'd not use a normal "Android-App".

Damastus said:
Not trying to bring you down, but they said NFC-capable devices. That could mean, that they might do contracts with Mobile Network Operators or so and install an app on the secure element. So we'd not use a normal "Android-App".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but at the same time, GO Transit (and thus Metrolinx) DID get Ryerson University to build their (decidedly awesome) mobile app for them. So while I will concede that what you suggest is certainly POSSIBLE, it would also be something that would be both terribly unpopular, and likely quite expensive.

TuxOtaku said:
Yeah but at the same time, GO Transit (and thus Metrolinx) DID get Ryerson University to build their (decidedly awesome) mobile app for them. So while I will concede that what you suggest is certainly POSSIBLE, it would also be something that would be both terribly unpopular, and likely quite expensive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets say it like this: It's still quite a difference if you emulate a card type that your reader already can read. If yout want to go the way of an app, then there would be the need to replace the old reader infrastructure with NFC readers. Both ways are expensive for the one or the other side in the end.

I would love it if one day they brought it to mobile phones. The more I can do with my phone the better. I hate carrying a bunch of stuff when one thing can do it all.
Sent from my SGH-I747M using xda app-developers app

Presto app genuine does not work on nfc - capable devices like pixel, ph-1 and lg5, moto g6 play , though did not tested on custom roms yet but unlocked bootloader devices mentioned above do not work with Presto.
P.S. If your device has finger reader, Presto will work but give you error for payments if you did not enabled lock screen pin/gesture / not swipe!/ + insert your, at least, one finger print.
Question is is there any hack to make enable to work the Presto app on device that was bootloader unlocked and rooted (hard or with magic app)?

The chip that gets read from the presto card is actually very small about the size of a sim card, I sliced mine out of the card and attaached it into my watch buckle,. Now when I get on a bus I look like James Bond.

Google is the biggest reason behind the poor development of NFC

First of all, Google have full control of the NFC secure element in Nexus devices. This means that any company that wants to build an application that requires high security or the card emulation feature must beg Google for access. But Google are the good guys, right? Maybe not. Kaching wanted to build a NFC wallet for Android, but they say they've been given the cold shoulder by Google. Source here. How convenient that a potential competitor to Google Wallet is denied access, aye?
A related note is that card emulation is not possible for consumers in Android's current state. Let me give you an example of how card emulation would be useful in your everyday life: in your office or school you probably have NFC door access, and perhaps NFC printing and food payments. Many of these systems simply read the unique ID of the card and then associate that card ID with your account on the system. BlackBerry users have card emulation, meaning that they can use their phones with existing infrastructure. I've experienced this myself - my friend's BlackBerry can now be used to pay for his food and to gain entry to the building. Google have disabled this in Android - my Nexus spits out a random ID each time it's placed on the reader. If Google simply provided an application that allowed us to emulate one card at will, this would not be a problem. But they don't.
NFC could soon become a must-have feature on every phone. It certainly has the potential. However, the restrictions that Google have placed on NFC in Android will make gaining popularity very difficult.

Evangelion01 said:
First of all, Google have full control of the NFC secure element in Nexus devices. This means that any company that wants to build an application that requires high security or the card emulation feature must beg Google for access. But Google are the good guys, right? Maybe not. Kaching wanted to build a NFC wallet for Android, but they say they've been given the cold shoulder by Google. Source here. How convenient that a potential competitor to Google Wallet is denied access, aye?
A related note is that card emulation is not possible for consumers in Android's current state. Let me give you an example of how card emulation would be useful in your everyday life: in your office or school you probably have NFC door access, and perhaps NFC printing and food payments. Many of these systems simply read the unique ID of the card and then associate that card ID with your account on the system. BlackBerry users have card emulation, meaning that they can use their phones with existing infrastructure. I've experienced this myself - my friend's BlackBerry can now be used to pay for his food and to gain entry to the building. Google have disabled this in Android - my Nexus spits out a random ID each time it's placed on the reader. If Google simply provided an application that allowed us to emulate one card at will, this would not be a problem. But they don't.
NFC could soon become a must-have feature on every phone. It certainly has the potential. However, the restrictions that Google have placed on NFC in Android will make gaining popularity very difficult.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My question to you is, how is Nokia progressing with NFC in the development department? RIM?
Secure Element isn't something to be opened to every developer, because it totally undermines it's purpose if everyone has access to it.

I guess you don't fully understand the reason why Google disabled the card emulation.
As you said, some places use an NFC card for payments. Imagine someone that creates an app that emulates the card. But instead of the 10$ you've got on your card, the app tells that you've got $150 dollar on the card.
So, how can a school use NFC in a phone for payment? Simple, create a new NFC system with a secured(!) app, which transfers the data by NFC. Just like Google Wallet does. Google Wallet doesn't emulate an NFC card, it just transfers data though NFC and the receiver knows how to handle that data.
So, there are two things that need to be done:
- Create a new system that communicates with the device, instead of letting the system think it's just an NFC card.
- Wait until more users have got NFC in their phones. For now, only the HTC One series, the SGS3, the Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus contain NFC. Maybe a few more, but that's it.

adrynalyne said:
My question to you is, how is Nokia progressing with NFC in the development department? RIM?
Secure Element isn't something to be opened to every developer, because it totally undermines it's purpose if everyone has access to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I mentioned, RIM allows card emulation. BlackBerry devices are compatible with existing infrastructure without having to develop new applications or authentication methods.
The Commonwealth Bank of Australia is not 'every developer'. They're a bank for Christ's sake. Obviously Google can't open the secure element to layman developers, but they're locking out financial institutions too?

fifarunnerr said:
I guess you don't fully understand the reason why Google disabled the card emulation.
As you said, some places use an NFC card for payments. Imagine someone that creates an app that emulates the card. But instead of the 10$ you've got on your card, the app tells that you've got $150 dollar on the card.
So, how can a school use NFC in a phone for payment? Simple, create a new NFC system with a secured(!) app, which transfers the data by NFC. Just like Google Wallet does. Google Wallet doesn't emulate an NFC card, it just transfers data though NFC and the receiver knows how to handle that data.
So, there are two things that need to be done:
- Create a new system that communicates with the device, instead of letting the system think it's just an NFC card.
- Wait until more users have got NFC in their phones. For now, only the HTC One series, the SGS3, the Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus contain NFC. Maybe a few more, but that's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I mentioned, many schools don't actually write any information onto the NFC cards. The cards are empty. They simply link the UID of the card to a person's account on their backend system. This is how my school works. This way, there's absolutely no possibility of someone obtaining free food/money. And that's why my friend is able to use his BlackBerry on our system. Card emulation gives him a constant UID. My Nexus' p2p mode chucks out a random UID, meaning that it's not possible.
All Google would have to do to fix that is release an application that uses the secure element to allow us to emulate a single card with a constant UID. Then I too would be able to add my Nexus to the system.

Where are visa and MasterCard? Only when these giants get on board will nfc take off.

Trust me whenever the iphone has nfc than nfc will take off and become a "standard" among phones. Just like the front facing camera :banghead:
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2

Hotshot205 said:
Trust me whenever the iphone has nfc than nfc will take off and become a "standard" among phones. Just like the front facing camera :banghead:
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, are you saying now that apple was a pioneer of a front facing camera?
My daughters brand new first gen iphone had a ****ty 2 meg camera (just one), while my n95 had a front facing one and a main one -5meg on carl zeis optics.
Imho, the only thing apple does well is design. The sales and the place on the market is through the design in a first place.
I remember how their phone wouldnt have mms, bluetooth connection (apart from a headset) and pretty much no file transfer or interconnectivity -a phone!!!
Symbian may be dead now, still, a much better system than osx as far as I installed and fiddled with both of them.
Sent from my ST18i using XDA

Regrettably, Hotshot205 is right. iPhone = traction. Lots of the features in iPhones existed on phones before they showed up on iPhone. But, all those fanboys will tell their friends and try to make phandroids jealous. Would you give a damn about Instagram if not for all the iTards going on and on about it? We had better photo-sharing apps before that, but nobody cared. Rumor has it the next iPhone will have NFC, and if it does, I bet we suddenly see a lot more use for a technology we had a year earlier.

Yeah that our hardware to be used at stores, to enable a wave and pay are not in alot of areas. Wait till visa and Samsung start pushing this hard during the Olympics
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Wouldn't the Isis nfc system also be part of problem with nfc development?

Google isn't the only blockade to NFC
The NFC P2P protocol is what is most used for facilities access applications on Android. There are systems that take advantage of this on the market already. Some systems for access control are fundamentally incompatible. All our NFC enabled phones are capable of handling this protocol.
As for Google holding up NFC. I can see how card emulation can be a thorny issue for Google. You would need access to the secure element and that might provide unintended exploits for scams and fraud. Would you want to be liable?
Individual banks are responsible for including the established NFC features Visa and Mastercard have already implemented. Not only are they loathe to change but they are also tightwads and don't want to issue millions of cards with chips in them or build the infrastructure to manage them. The are also paranoid about access to the information stored in the NFC secure element.
Merchants also must not only purchase and install the POS terminals that are NFC enabled but they also must be troubleshooters and educators for people that have trouble using their NFC cards. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to use Google Wallet at a merchant but couldn't because the clerk didn't know how to use it. Of all the places I use my cards at, only about 15% actually have the POS terminal for NFC transactions.
And while I'm not including the typical XDA member, people are paranoid. My 85 year old father refuses to use his credit union Visa debit because he thinks it's less secure than writing a check. He comes to me to order stuff online with my AmEx card... he's never going to change.
As far as Apple is concerned, they will bring a monolithic install base that will bring critical mass to the party. All those iPhones running around asking to pay with their iBucks will probably push us over the cliff and you'll see a much more rapid deployment of POS readers. Nobody will know what Apple is doing until it's released. I've not even heard any credible chatter for inclusion of NFC in the next iPhone.
I know I've rambled on a bit. But I doubt Google is as big a barrier as you would think. I think it's more likely the banks, merchants, not having critical mass for full scale deployment, etc.
EDIT
I just found an article at Forbes outlining a patent from Apple about an iWallet using the bluetooth 4 low power features... interesting but very disruptive for the ecosystem.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthony...t-paves-way-for-next-iphone-to-be-an-iwallet/

Hotshot205 said:
Trust me whenever the iphone has nfc than nfc will take off and become a "standard" among phones. Just like the front facing camera :banghead:
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You obviously don't know what your talking about. Android phones has FFC before iPhones. Many features appear in Android way before in iOS (I.e. notifications, NFC, face unlock, etc.). The list goes on.....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

jokerzx12 said:
You obviously don't know what your talking about. Android phones has FFC before iPhones. Many features appear in Android way before in iOS (I.e. notifications, NFC, face unlock, etc.). The list goes on.....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He never said otherwise. He said it didn't "take off" until the iPhone.

jokerzx12 said:
You obviously don't know what your talking about. Android phones has FFC before iPhones. Many features appear in Android way before in iOS (I.e. notifications, NFC, face unlock, etc.). The list goes on.....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please try reading before bashing..

Wilsonium said:
The NFC P2P protocol is what is most used for facilities access applications on Android. There are systems that take advantage of this on the market already. Some systems for access control are fundamentally incompatible. All our NFC enabled phones are capable of handling this protocol.
As for Google holding up NFC. I can see how card emulation can be a thorny issue for Google. You would need access to the secure element and that might provide unintended exploits for scams and fraud. Would you want to be liable?
Individual banks are responsible for including the established NFC features Visa and Mastercard have already implemented. Not only are they loathe to change but they are also tightwads and don't want to issue millions of cards with chips in them or build the infrastructure to manage them. The are also paranoid about access to the information stored in the NFC secure element.
Merchants also must not only purchase and install the POS terminals that are NFC enabled but they also must be troubleshooters and educators for people that have trouble using their NFC cards. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to use Google Wallet at a merchant but couldn't because the clerk didn't know how to use it. Of all the places I use my cards at, only about 15% actually have the POS terminal for NFC transactions.
And while I'm not including the typical XDA member, people are paranoid. My 85 year old father refuses to use his credit union Visa debit because he thinks it's less secure than writing a check. He comes to me to order stuff online with my AmEx card... he's never going to change.
As far as Apple is concerned, they will bring a monolithic install base that will bring critical mass to the party. All those iPhones running around asking to pay with their iBucks will probably push us over the cliff and you'll see a much more rapid deployment of POS readers. Nobody will know what Apple is doing until it's released. I've not even heard any credible chatter for inclusion of NFC in the next iPhone.
I know I've rambled on a bit. But I doubt Google is as big a barrier as you would think. I think it's more likely the banks, merchants, not having critical mass for full scale deployment, etc.
EDIT
I just found an article at Forbes outlining a patent from Apple about an iWallet using the bluetooth 4 low power features... interesting but very disruptive for the ecosystem.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthony...t-paves-way-for-next-iphone-to-be-an-iwallet/
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Click to collapse
The P2P protocol will not do anything for the proliferation of NFC. Existing infrastructure does not use P2P, and that Google are trying to push it is laughable. When a person sees that their phone can give them access to their buildings using hardware that has been deployed for years, they'll sit up and notice. That's the case with BlackBerry.
The banks are only an issue because they're trying to get a cut. They know that NFC is coming. HSBC have made NFC-enabled cards the standard now. Barclays have issued over 21 million NFC-enabled cards; they're even giving away NFC stickers and wristbands. Even over there in America, many banks issue NFC-enabled cards as standard.
The merchants are adopting NFC at a fast pace now. Just last week the UK Post Office announced it would be installing NFC terminals into all 11,500 of its stores by October. A number of supermarkets are rolling out NFC terminals. Many small mom-and-pop shops even have NFC terminals.
The biggest issue for Android and NFC is Google. The people that want to use NFC to its fullest can't, because Google Wallet is so limited in terms of supported banks/countries/devices. Then when competing companies want to make an NFC Wallet, Google shuts them out. There was a company who wanted to make NFC-based door locks, but Google wouldn't give them access to the secure element. Obviously you can't just give anyone access to the secure element, but Google are turning their backs on established businesses. They're stifling development. Why do you think the Nexus devices don't have MicroSD slots? It's very possibly because MicroSD cards can be used as removable secure elements which Google can't control. Same with SIM cards, which is why it's still unclear whether the Nexus devices can use SIM cards as secure elements.
Take the Galaxy S3. Its embedded secure element is controlled by Samsung, but it can also use the SIM card and the MicroSD card as secure elements. Samsung have already provided Visa and Lloyds access to the secure element for NFC payments at the Olympics. Can't say the same for Google and the Nexus devices.

Hotshot205 said:
Trust me whenever the iphone has nfc than nfc will take off and become a "standard" among phones. Just like the front facing camera :banghead:
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
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Yep. We can just hope they Apple will add NFC to the next iPhone.

Thanks for everyone who took up for my post. I never said apple made it they only made it cool or the "in the happening" I've used so many different phones its not even funny and my first phone with a front facing camera was the Nokia N95(still one of my favorite phones) Nokia been had ffc, I remember using fring for GOD sakes lol. So I'm not a noob to technology but I know apple marketing is crazy when they add new features that's been out before it hits their phone. Plus I wish the new Apple iphone have nfc. It will give nfc the push it needs to get off the ground. While android will still have cooler nfc apps in my opinion.
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...ftr -
N95 release 2007, front camera-VGA, main-5Mpx (carl zeis)
3 years later...
Iphone 4 2010, front camera-VGA, main-5Mpx
btw, I put my old N95 to envirophone, was offered 65 Euro,
same age iphone-10 Euro.
lol
not to sound harsh now, Steve Jobs did a lot for the technology, design and innovation in all his areas, somehow, I dont think apple will do as well without him, just like they didnt do well without him before -just my opinion
sorry off topic

Nfc needs a universal standard or be narrowed to 2 or 3 standards for it to become competitive and viable. Apple may or may not give this momentum. Personally, i think they will. Too many companies want their cut for digitally touching your money. Sad but true. And hope i don't ever hear an apple user saying something stupid like apple invented nfc or smartphone payments. Been through that too many times with other 'established' or 'invented' technologies. Like apps. And voip. Even the smartphone itself. Ugh.
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