Hi all.
Last night I accidentally discovered the burnt pixels on my one year old Focus screen The sights of high contrasts Metro-style icons (such as IE, phone and marketplace) are visible on the white background as a darker "shadows" (actual color is like a light-light yellow, close to white). These "shadows" are visible on the white background in the dark only.
It's not a big deal but I'm kinda disappointed
So, my conclusions are:
- high contrasts Metro-style tiles on the home screen are evil, at least for AMOLED screens. However live tiles (probably) can solve the issue (he-he, just thought - may be it's a real reason why MS implemented and pushing live tiles? Kidding );
- periodical changing of tile location on the home screen also can help;
- using AMOLED handsets for development is not so good. The best practice is to keep AMOLED screens off all the time (what is not acceptable for development).
My Focus is one year old, but I don't have any burn in problems some reported. Granted, I don't leave my phone screen on for extended periods, but my live tile arrangement really never changed.
Now that I have the HTC Titan, I have no regrets with the SLCD screen. The colors seem more natural to me. While AMOLED screens certainly have a "pop" factor, it's not a must-have for me.
This is a well known issue that you have to live with: AMOLED will get screen burn-in if it is use for an extend period of time.
I know most of the Android Galaxy phones also have screen burn-in especially on the status bar.
My own Samsung Focus developed screen burn-in (esp. Metro buttons) after only three months of use.
day2die said:
This is a well known issue that you have to live with: AMOLED will get screen burn-in if it is use for an extend period of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about Super AMOLED screens, is problem still persists?
I notice things on my Omnia 7. Normally if i've had a menu open for a minute or more and i switch to a black background i can see a kind of greyish imprint of the last displayed icons.
sensboston said:
How about Super AMOLED screens, is problem still persists?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SAMOLED has it as well. I'm sure it was a big issue in the focus forums last year
The biggest disadvantage of an amoled screen is when you move to another type of screen, and notice just how gray blacks can be. Using my old focus and having the blacks blend with the bezel was so visually pleasing, and the colors had so much pop. I hear that the colors aren't as accurate, but what does that mean really? 90% of what I look at on a phone is arbitrary colors anyway; how would I ever know that the blue tiles are really supposed to be one shade vs. another, and why would I care?
(btw yes, I had the same screen burn-in problem on my focus)
Yeah i had a major burn in problem with my Omnia 7, I think it was something to do with the bright blue theme i used, i have pictures here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=973337
use a screen saver?
Oh ya.. nevermind
Wow... I had no idea of this...
I have a Galaxy S I9000 (as well as an LG Quantum) and luckily it hasn't burnt in...
Is this a really wide spread problem?
renatofontes said:
I have a Galaxy S I9000 (as well as an LG Quantum) and luckily it hasn't burnt in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try to look at your screen in darkness (set white background on the fullscreen first), then say "luckily"
sensboston said:
How about Super AMOLED screens, is problem still persists?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is particularly bad on Super AMOLED screens.
Super AMOLED is still AMOLED.
My Vibrant, if I turn my screen on to the home screen and let it sit there for 10 seconds and then open another app, I can see the shadows on the home screen superimposed onto the app that's running. It's very noticeable, and gets irksome after a while. You won't see that on LCD screens.
The status bar is burnt in, which is noticeable when the phone is used in landscape mode because you can always see that faint strip where the status bar is (in portrait) on the side of the screen.
I set my screen timeout to 30 seconds to "preserve" the screen.
---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------
renatofontes said:
Wow... I had no idea of this...
I have a Galaxy S I9000 (as well as an LG Quantum) and luckily it hasn't burnt in...
Is this a really wide spread problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of Samsung's displays have this issue. Perhaps you just haven't noticed it, or are just fortunate
Not really widespread, and not really a "problem" per se. Just a component of the screen tech. It burns in and shadows easily.
However they have better power management than LCD screens and better brightness, viewing angles, and outdoor visibility - as well as better color saturation and reproduction. For example, I increase my Vibrant's stock battery life by like 4+ hours doing absolutely nothing but putting a true black background on the launcher...
It's a trade-off. It's worth it for someone like you who doesn't notice it, though. It's worth it even for some people who do. It really depends on how long you keep your phone, Lol. If you upgrade yearly it's not that big a deal. I can't see myself going 2 years with the Vibrant as my primary device and dealing with it, though. It's too startling to look at at times, especially after you spend a significant amount of time in one app with static UI elements and move to something else...
If you look at the AMOLED technology, it's understandable really. All the colours displayed on the screen are composed of green, red and blue sub-pixels.
In an AMOLED screen, there is no backlighting. The sub-pixels themselves generate the visible light, hence why the blacks are so black, because the black pixels are not powered on. (Think of an AMOLED screen as having thousands of tiny tiny LED's)
However the problem with AMOLED is the manufacturers could not produce a specific chemical compound for each colour that would wear evenly. For example, the blue sub pixel has a shorter lifespan than the green. When the AMOLED sub-pixels gets used, the intensity of light produced decreases, hence there is uneven wear. The pentile arrangement was to actually arrange the pixels in a way, which as the display wears, the colours look normal. When there are static pixels displayed, a certain portion of sub pixels gets used more than others, hence why you can notice it.
In an LCD, each sub-pixel is a polarizing filter, which filters out either red/blue/green and displays it or blocks it, so an LCD doesn't suffer from screen burn in as much as AMOLED and PLASMA displays.
From day one I have only ever used my phone on the lowest setting and I have alternated every few days from red/green tiles. I have never used blue due to the low lifespan of blues!!
I don't think it's a huge problem if you are smart. I made the mistake of leaving my screen on as often as possible when I first got my focus. Once I started noticing the burn in, I moved my tiles around, put my screen on 2 minute timeout, and didn't notice any more of the burn in. Just the original images.
As Big K mentions, blue pixels are the quickest to degrade, that is why you never use a blue theme with an AMOLED display. Also, displaying white actually activates some blue pixels and draws more power, so the black system theme should always be used over white.
Every AMOLED owner should know these 2 things and it is a shame that Samsung and the carriers don't do a better job of informing their customers of these simple facts.
I cringe every time I see an AMOLED phone with a white background and blue theme.
This is why I still stick to Super LCD.
I saw an S2 get a burn in within 2 months of use. Lawl.
ohgood said:
use a screen saver?
Oh ya.. nevermind
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The solution is ridiculously obvious: turn off your screen when you're done using the phone. Duh. That's obvious from a simple battery life perspective.
Of course, I see people *constantly* who just set their phones down with the screen on and walk away. Idiots.
jasongw said:
The solution is ridiculously obvious: turn off your screen when you're done using the phone. Duh. That's obvious from a simple battery life perspective.
Of course, I see people *constantly* who just set their phones down with the screen on and walk away. Idiots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The solution is not ridiculously obvious because other screen types do not suffer from thsi issue, therefor the user who moves from an LCD screen to an AMOLED has absolutely no clue that this screen type has these deficiencies. They simply assume their screen will always look the way it does as long as they take care of their phone.
That is not a bad assumption. It just doesn't jive with this display tech.
I love the deep blacks and color saturation on Samsung's AMOLED screens, but I don't think I can ever convince myself to get another one.
The issue isn't just keeping the screen on. I've always used a 30 second screen time-out on all my phones, so they aren't just sitting there a ton with an image on them. Even when you have something on the screen for like 10 seconds and move to another app you can see the image shadows on the screen. Yes, it gets pretty noticeable after a while to the point where it's constantly drawing your attention.
It's actually worse than the PenTile they use in the 1st gen SAMOLED screens, TBH.
N8ter said:
The solution is not ridiculously obvious because other screen types do not suffer from thsi issue, therefor the user who moves from an LCD screen to an AMOLED has absolutely no clue that this screen type has these deficiencies. They simply assume their screen will always look the way it does as long as they take care of their phone.
That is not a bad assumption. It just doesn't jive with this display tech.
I love the deep blacks and color saturation on Samsung's AMOLED screens, but I don't think I can ever convince myself to get another one.
The issue isn't just keeping the screen on. I've always used a 30 second screen time-out on all my phones, so they aren't just sitting there a ton with an image on them. Even when you have something on the screen for like 10 seconds and move to another app you can see the image shadows on the screen. Yes, it gets pretty noticeable after a while to the point where it's constantly drawing your attention.
It's actually worse than the PenTile they use in the 1st gen SAMOLED screens, TBH.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st gen? It's being used in the Galaxy Nexus, too
It's a really useful point to raise, and something to think about for people using their phones for development. Automatic screen time-outs can be an annoyance when you're testing features (against a real device), and wanting to stay connected (in visual studio) to the phone for debugging info and deployment. I know I have my current phone on most of the day to test tile and page updates etc. so there's bound to be large areas of the screen remaining static for long periods of time.
It's made me think twice about getting a Lumia (which I assume would be prone too) for this reason
I'm surprised manufactures don't include info on it bundled with the phones (e.g. on not having a white background) - that's pretty irresponsible.
Related
The phone also feels tangibly heavier.
Think it may be a Super LCD screen rather than AMOLED (how can I check?). Overall, the screen just looks grey. I want my old AMOLED one back?!
Some things to try:
- look at the screen through a circular polarisation filter, eg. RealD glasses (no idea if this works with SLCD...)
- set brightness to maximum and display a black image in a dark room
- look really closely at the screen with a magnifier (or someone with good eyesight) to see if it's Pentile (I guess an LCD screen could be Pentile too...)
- weigh the phone on some good scales to see if it really is any heavier
I've weighed it - and it's just a bit higher than 135 grams. Even though it matches the spec listed on HTC's website, I still think my previous phone was lighter. Now to test the AMOLED screen. Hmm..
Schmeggma said:
Some things to try:
- set brightness to maximum and display a black image in a dark room
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the backlight is apparent then. when i switch the phone off, it goes completely black, otherwise it's a grey colour. does that mean it is not AMOLED?
It certainly sounds like that may be the case
Would you be able to post pictures? This is bad news for anyone wanting a replacement. AMOLED was a big selling point for me.
However,
Can you read it in daylight outdoors?
stats101 said:
the backlight is apparent then. when i switch the phone off, it goes completely black, otherwise it's a grey colour. does that mean it is not AMOLED?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's LCD, can I have your Desire then? I hate the Pen-Tile pixel layout...
Seems the black wallpaper in the dark test isn't a valid avenue to test if it's AMOLED (see: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=725656).
Think it may be either me just imagining things - or a defective AMOLED screen.
I'm sending my Desire for repair as I have dust under my screen, I contacted HTC support worried if I may get an LCD screen and they asured me they are currently still using AMOLED displays only
tell me if my screen looks washed out to you. I'm sure my last desire, the colours were a lot more vivid.
Can't really tell if it looks washed out in a photo with nothing to compare it to, but it's definitely a Pentile matrix...
Yes, definitely Pentile. Damn.
Well to me it looks ok and very much the same as mine. I have never returned my Desire to be fixed.
My colors are very vibrant and i can see the screen on daylight (using auto-brightness).
I have noticed one thing on your photos though: your Internet icon is different from mine. Yours seems an older icon, really washed out, being gray and having the home icon. Mine looks more recent, it's a earth icon in blue (same blue as the mail or message icons) with some orbits rotating around the world...
Could this be it?
Necroman_AI said:
Well to me it looks ok and very much the same as mine. I have never returned my Desire to be fixed.
My colors are very vibrant and i can see the screen on daylight (using auto-brightness).
I have noticed one thing on your photos though: your Internet icon is different from mine. Yours seems an older icon, really washed out, being gray and having the home icon. Mine looks more recent, it's a earth icon in blue (same blue as the mail or message icons) with some orbits rotating around the world...
Could this be it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The internet icon i think is Orange's reworking (notice the orange door to the house).
I just wanted to mention, I 've had 5x different Desires and some have had a more vibrant screen to others.
Through the range of brightness from minimal to maximum I've definitely been able to see that some of the handsets are bright but seem to have very slightly less clarity, whilst others have a sharper image but loose some vividness.
I prefer the brighter / more colourful one I have now.
teffers said:
I just wanted to mention, I 've had 5x different Desires and some have had a more vibrant screen to others.
Through the range of brightness from minimal to maximum I've definitely been able to see that some of the handsets are bright but seem to have very slightly less clarity, whilst others have a sharper image but loose some vividness.
I prefer the brighter / more colourful one I have now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5 Desires. I've been through 3 so far. The first two were very similar (although the second one for some reason just felt so much lighter). This one is washed out. Going to try and phone Orange and try and see if I can have another one sent. :/
I have an Epic 4g Touch (SGSII), and am wondering about screen burn-in.
I already know it's possible to burn-in our Super AMOLED+ screens, but I'm wondering what kind of things I can do to prevent it, and if doing certain things will accelerate the burn-in or not.
1. I'm mostly indoors, so I always keep the brightness set to 30%. This should be sufficiently low to slow the burn-in, correct?
2. I use ADW Launcher Pro, but I don't have it auto-hiding the notification bar. My screen is on between 1-3 hours per day. Should I be using the auto-hide feature?
3. I was thinking about using the clock in dock mode at night while I charge my phone. I set the brightness to the lowest possible setting, and I know that after a few minutes, the phone sets a black background with the clock text being yellow and moving around the screen every minute or so. With all of that in mind, is that going to be bad for the burn-in?
4. This is kind of related to #3. If a pixel is pure black, is it susceptible to burn-in?
Thanks in advance to all replies. I'm pretty tech savvy, but kind of a noob when it comes to these advanced screen questions.
Awesome, thanks. Wasn't aware of that strobe trick; I'll have to start doing that
newalker91 said:
My suggestion to reduce any and all burn-in is the same trick used to fix stuck pixels on LCD screens. Download a strobe light application that uses multiple colors, and once every couple of weeks allow your phone to sit while your screen rapidly flickers through all of the colors for about 10-15 minutes. This will wash away any burn-in that may be building.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just had a thought...
Isn't burn-in caused by pixels becoming physically damaged? So how can a strobe light app that uses these damaged pixels "wash away" burn-in?
Not trying to be rude or anything; I definitely appreciate everyone's knowledge on this subject. I guess I'm just looking for more information.
personally i wouldn't worry too much about burn in. things move around enough on these phones to mostly prevent it.
and for what it's worth i still use my original samsung launch day moment as a clock for the last year or so and have yet to notice any burn in at all (and that clock doesn't bounce around) sometimes during the day i still use it as a media player or terminal device too. screen still looks awesome (not compared to the gsii but)
granted the moment was super amoled not super amoled+ but heh....
newalker91 said:
No, the Samsung Moment was sure not Super AMOLED. It was LCD. I've taken probably a thousand of them apart.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you sure? the og box i have on my shelf def says amoled.
EDIT. ok maybe its not SUPER AMOLED. But it def is AMOLED.
"3.2-inch AMOLED display"
newalker91 said:
Regular AMOLED displays are basically the same as LCD screens. They function completely different than Super AMOLED.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the only difference between amoled and super amoled is the PenTile RGBG pixel matrix is replaced with a common RGB subpixels arrangement, going from eight to twelve subpixels in a group, resulting in finer details. The screen technology is also brighter, thinner and 18% more energy efficient. super amoled+ adds more of the same just brighter lighter and less power hungry.
yes any led panel (amoled and super amoled) is just an led panel thats true.
its the material used for the led catalyst (organic) and position of the film in the glass (under not over) that differentiate them.
but then again it's really not an issue. and i could be wrong.
all i know is that my moment has been left on in situations that i know would cause burn in on any normal lcd style device and has never been an issue.
for the length of time that most people keep a phone (2years or so) i personally wouldn't worry about it.
that being said OLED pixels degrade with use (become dimmer, and the different colour pixels degrade at different rates), but according to most screen datasheets ive seen we are talking 15-20,000 hours of screen on use for a noticeable difference.
just ask yourself this do you ever see screen burn in on display phones that are left running screen on all day?
but didn't mean to push the thread offtopic
I have seen burn in on my Captivate, so yes it will happen.
yep it will happen in certain circumstances i just went looking through my old amoled info and found this link
http://data.4dsystems.com.au/downloads/micro-OLED/Docs/4D_AMOLED_Presentation.pdf
this has a lot of good info but is out of date.
what we get isn't true burn in (although the outcome is similar)
what we see as burn in is really the degradation of pixel intensity and has alot to do with the colors the screen must display. so even a moving clock is degrading the pixels just that it's degrading them (hopefully evenly across the screen) the super amoled+ screens seem to have added a white led to the mix to help prevent burn in from white screens/txt and lower power consumption.
it also appears some colors are better for screen life than others with blue having the shortest life.
keep in mind if your interested in looking at the link that it is describing the first gen amoled screen and much has been improved since then.
from this i would also make the assumption that flashing the screen doesn't unstick any pixels it just burns them all out a bit.
i'll shut up now
Well I've done some more research too, and found that what mjcollum said is pretty much the case for us. We don't actually get a "burn-in", but rather the pixels degrade and leave a sort of "ghost" image where the degradation is worse than surrounding areas.
The "half life" of older AMOLED pixels was 14k hours, but most articles I've encountered mention that technology has improved, ergo the pixels should last a bit longer in our Super AMOLED+ displays.
But still, there will definitely be some degree of degradation. I suppose it's a lot like sex; leaving the screen off will keep your pixels the safest, but it's a lot more fun to use what you've got
I only wonder if a dim display degrades slower than a brighter display... ?
interesting. good to know.
does this apply to qhd displays like the photon also? or is this only a amoled thing?
newalker91 said:
Regular AMOLED displays are basically the same as LCD screens. They function completely different than Super AMOLED.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The moment was AMOLED... it had a seperate digitizer.
The Galaxy S was Super AMOLED it incorporated the digitizer with the pentile matrix.
The Galaxy S II is Super AMOLED+ which replaces the pentile layot with the standard RGB grid.
To prevent burn in limit screen on time, no need to do any crazy pixel unsticking tricks as it'll just reduce the vibrancy of your screen.
thanks warlord good to know.
one thing to think about is even if the pixel halflife is only still 14k hours
365(days) x 24(hours) = 8,7650 hours if you left it on for a full year.
so i say just use the thing.
---------- Post added at 10:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------
SpaceMonky said:
interesting. good to know.
does this apply to qhd displays like the photon also? or is this only a amoled thing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i could be wrong but i believe the qhd part just references the resolution.
and the photon has a normal style lcd display. so if it got burn in at all it would be the normal lcd style.
mjcollum said:
i could be wrong but i believe the qhd part just references the resolution.
and the photon has a normal style lcd display. so if it got burn in at all it would be the normal lcd style.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're correct, qHD only references the resolution, not the display type. Which is funny, because a lot of Google searches are for "qHD vs Super AMOLED+". I think people are just trying to pit their Droid Bionics against our SGSIIs
Watching Netflix or anything in full screen it's noticeable. Very noticeable. After one week of owning it about a month ago, I saw a similar topic and thought "this would never happen to me". Fast forward a month later, I have it. And a scratch on my screen after putting it in my pocket only with nothing else in it.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
monkey hung said:
Watching Netflix or anything in full screen it's noticeable. Very noticeable. After one week of owning it about a month ago, I saw a similar topic and thought "this would never happen to me". Fast forward a month later, I have it. And a scratch on my screen after putting it in my pocket only with nothing else in it.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take a photo and post it please.
Mine does too, mighty thanks to amoled
This is going to happen regardless of what you do.
Acceptance is key
Can someone post a picture? I would like to see what all the fuss is about.
By nav bar, do you mean the notification/status bar? If so, I know exactly what you're talking about. The static cyan text is a burn-in waiting to happen. I noticed a little bit of cyan tint in that area when brightness is low and the screen is white. It's by no means that bad at all but I use the hide the status bar option in ADW to prevent it from getting worse. 2 months later and it hasn't gotten worse.
waiaung1 said:
By nav bar, do you mean the notification/status bar? If so, I know exactly what you're talking about. The static cyan text is a burn-in waiting to happen. I noticed a little bit of cyan tint in that area when brightness is low and the screen is white. It's by no means that bad at all but I use the hide the status bar option in ADW to prevent it from getting worse. 2 months later and it hasn't gotten worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By nav bar they mean the soft keys (Home - Menu - Recent - Back) buttons on the bottom.
Oh, in that case I haven't seen that problem but I have heard of people with it. You can get rid of those soft-keys with custom mods too that makes your phone full-screen.
I noticed this on my Gnex as well. Rotating the screen clockwise to a landscape orientation, the left side of my screen where the soft buttons were has a notably bluer tint. For the record, I keep my screen on auto, which I was hoping would reduce the burn-in effect. Setting the screen brightness to 100% seems to hide the burn-in. Dunno if that will always be true.
Even worse, when I did a screen compare of my previous Nexus vs the display model at the Verizon store back in early Jan, the demo model's screen was noticeably dimmer and off color even at full brightness. Seemed like running in torch mode 24/7 with a bright red background caused the screen to degrade noticeably after only a week or so.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
The only time I notice any sort of image retention (relating to the notification bar) is when I first open the XDA app and it quickly goes full screen. Other than that I never see it. However, I commonly see image retention going from home screen to Market but it fades very quickly.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Mine as well as my friend's has burn-in at the top and bottom where the status bar is and the soft buttons. Also my old nexus S as well as my friend's has burn in at the top status bar. It's inevitable I guess...
I started seeing this too but i quickly switched to transparent top and bottom bars so that those pixels got even wear, and it actually reversed my burn in mostly. My screen is near perfect now.
this happen to me, too. it sucks. can this be exchanged in person somewhere instead of shipping it? i don't want to wait.
Burn in was a term for lcd screens. For this situation think of it as "reverse led fatigue". The leds that are not used as much as the rest of the screen will appear brighter giving you the impression that it is burn in. On the first gen amoled's some would leave and entire white screen on full brightness overnight to normalize or calibrate the leds. Doesn't bug me one bit though.
good day.
chopper the dog said:
Burn in was a term for lcd screens. For this situation think of it as "reverse led fatigue". The leds that are not used as much as the rest of the screen will appear brighter giving you the impression that it is burn in. On the first gen amoled's some would leave and entire white screen on full brightness overnight to normalize or calibrate the leds. Doesn't bug me one bit though.
good day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly right. But the term burn in is so familiar to people it will likely never change.
I forgot to say that to eliminate this burn in i also use full screen browser at all times to hide the status bar. And i consistently rotate the screen to different views while i read my webpages to give the other pixels a rest. The effect is excellent.
To test this the best, install dead pixel detect from market and toggle thru every color. Rotate the screen too to see both areas. The color red is the only one that shows the burn in for me. Which is strange cause blue is the weak color that wears out the quickest. But my blue looks fine.
This will probably happen to all of us to some degree sooner or later.
The image retention that lasts 1-3 seconds we might see within a month or two usage is actually one of the characteristics of AMOLED "Ghosting effect"
which is not the same as AMOLED "reverse led fatigue" (or although technically incorrect but more widely understood term "Burn-ins") which maybe seen as permanent image retention shown as yellowish outlines of icons / keyboard outlines, etc.
Sadly, there's really nothing you can do about this problem after the fact, except to change the screen itself if it is really bothersome. Or you may try to change/delete/make transparent of the permanently placed icons/other objects/pictures to try to reverse these effects.
The only preventive measures would be changing screen rotation from vertical to horizontal, and make sure you don't have the screen on at a stay still image (preferably set auto screen off to 30seconds or so.)
It is humorous how particular many people are about "pocket" screens. Oled technology in reality is like the merger of lcd and plasma screens. And oled does get image retention and burn in similar to plasma. It is harder to avoid on a cell phone with so many possibilities of static images. Really though, it is good to mention/complaint about it so it gets attention and oled manufacturers try to improve upon the technology and try to minimize or get rid of the issues altogether. Many people still think plasmas get burn in very easily and that is far from the truth. The last 3 years or so Panasonic and Samsung have made great strides in minimizing the possibility and you see very few complaints about it. And it is even more humorous that many people think lcd technology is better for viewing because it is newer than plasma when the exact opposite is true. LCD technology is older than plasma, and aside from power usage and weight, lcd doesn't have many benefits over plasma. And because of the post processing to try and overcome the deficiencies of lcd viewing lcd screens are closing the gap in power consumption with plasma. But yeah, all you can do about the image retention of oled now is put pressure on samsung and lg and any newcomers to the technology to improve it. Hopefully, oled will overcome its shortcomings to lcd and plasma and be the better tech out of all three in the near future. I wish they made laptops with plasma screens. That would be an awesome option for laptop users that use theirs as desktop replacements like myself.
Sent from my Nexus in Texas.
I don't have any "burn in". I guess different screens behave differently.
case0 said:
I don't have any "burn in". I guess different screens behave differently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many people think they dont have it till they install dead pixel detect and check each color. I bet you have it on the color red.
RogerPodacter said:
Many people think they dont have it till they install dead pixel detect and check each color. I bet you have it on the color red.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All my pixels are fine but I notice the notification bar retention on brown with the XDA app and I notice the bottom (whatever it's called bar) on grey from the app you suggested. Either way, I still love the phone!!!
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
RogerPodacter said:
Many people think they dont have it till they install dead pixel detect and check each color. I bet you have it on the color red.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't. Out of curiosity I tried that app out after reading about it on this thread.
The reasons why I purchased a Tab S 8.4 were its awesome screen quality and high grade processor. For the later, the poor touchwiz optimization and the average gpu led to disappointing results. But well, the screen IS awesome !
Or is it ?
At first, I was truly impressed. But after some web browsing and reading e-books, something felt wrong with the colors homogeneity. On white backgrounds, the right part of the screen in portrait mode would tend towards a yellowish tone, while the left part would tend toward purple tones. Nothing obvious, but quite annoying when noticed.
After trying around with different backgrounds, it become more obvious with certain colors. The one used in settings background for example: The left side of the screen is deep blue, the right part is much lighter.. and greener.
Further investigating the issue, I figured it is most obvious when watched in the darkness and using dark colors: RBG such as R:0, G:10 , B: 20 or even R:20, G:10, B:0
Did anyone else notice similar issues ? Would you guys mind trying to create a R:0, G:10, B:20 (#000A14) background and check the result on your tab S in a low light environment ? On mine, it results in an obvious gradation from dark blue to green.
Attaching some pictures. The rendering is not the best especially in the darkness, but the issue remains clearly visible.
There is something very wrong with your screen. Return it.
suzook said:
There is something very wrong with your screen. Return it.
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I second that, that is not normal
I concur with the others, get it replaced.
AMOLED screens can fail for any number of reasons (pixel death is the main one) , if yours is showing problems get it replaced now rather than live with it and have a more serious problem later.
We've seen this yellow color issue reported by a few others. Looks like Samsung let a few diseased horses out of the barn. I concur with the others. Return it.
Thanks for your feedback, guys.
I'd like to highlight the fact this issue goes completely unnoticed in most scenarios. A friend I showed it on white background didn't notice it at all, in movies/games/pictures I don't see it at all. I only felt it while reading, and even then it was not obvious, just a persistant feeling that led me to further testing.
Only the extremely dark colors seem to be affected, and even then it's only noticeable in the darkness. I will go back to the store tomorow and exchange it for a new one, but I'm wondering if the issue isn't widespread and simply went under the radar as its effect is hardly noticeable in 99.9% of the situations.
Did anyone else check at an homogenous R:0, G:10, B:20 image in the darkness with their tab ?
I personnally used Moon+ Reader's background color settings for testing purpose, pretty easy to set up.
New Tab S, same issue
I changed my Tab S 8.4 today for a brand new one. Same test, same issue: the background is still not homogeneous. The issue is visible in the darkness on dark colors such as the one used for the settings menu, which seems naturally gradated from deep to lighter blue on my screen.
Could someone else test and reproduce the issue on their tab ?
I have tried to reproduce what you're seeing on my 10.5 and honestly I can't. I'm not going to say the white is always 100% pure white but it's close enough. At the same time I'm trying to avoid looking for something that's not there for my Tab.
ukael said:
I changed my Tab S 8.4 today for a brand new one. Same test, same issue: the background is still not homogeneous. The issue is visible in the darkness on dark colors such as the one used for the settings menu, which seems naturally gradated from deep to lighter blue on my screen.
Could someone else test and reproduce the issue on their tab ?
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Maybe you can go into Settings / Accessibility / Vision / Color Adjustments and see if your calibration is off. There is a test there where you arrange tiles by color gradation and it adjusts your screen. I am having none of the issues you mentioned, but my 10.5 Tab also passed that test with no color adjustments required. Give it a try.
mitchellvii said:
Maybe you can go into Settings / Accessibility / Vision / Color Adjustments and see if your calibration is off. There is a test there where you arrange tiles by color gradation and it adjusts your screen. I am having none of the issues you mentioned, but my 10.5 Tab also passed that test with no color adjustments required. Give it a try.
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Test completed successfully. The calibration is fine, and the issue is not noticeable during the test. The issue is actually not noticeable in most usages, I only see it on homogenous very dark color backgrounds (the 10% darkest colors), and while in a dark environment myself. In most common usages, the screen looks fantastic and flawless.
Unfortunately, I often use my toys in my bed in the darkness. AND I am concerned about a possible defect that would get worse over time.
That said, tests on similar colored backgrounds on other AMOLED screens (PS Vita, Galaxy SII) lead me to think this could be a global issue with AMOLED.
Unfortunately, I often use my toys in my bed in the darkness.
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Lol, to those of us with a perverse sense of humor we would refer to that as a hanging curveball.
Whatever issues you are experiencing I would take that over LCD light bleed any day.
ukael said:
Test completed successfully. The calibration is fine, and the issue is not noticeable during the test. The issue is actually not noticeable in most usages, I only see it on homogenous very dark color backgrounds (the 10% darkest colors), and while in a dark environment myself. In most common usages, the screen looks fantastic and flawless.
Unfortunately, I often use my toys in my bed in the darkness. AND I am concerned about a possible defect that would get worse over time.
That said, tests on similar colored backgrounds on other AMOLED screens (PS Vita, Galaxy SII) lead me to think this could be a global issue with AMOLED.
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Dear Friend. Like you I am very sensible in that point. I have a lot behind me and I can tell you, that homogeneity is something we can not expect from all types of modern displays, except the pro ones with a special function that takes care about this issue. Any screen has such issues, the question is just what type of and the intensity differs. The lower the light in our environment the more sensible our eyes get. The longer we stare into the screen the better we see all color details. Worst case scenario is a totally darkened room. Your eyes won´t get more sensible than in such a situation. Especially AMOLED displays will show the strangest kind of irregularities you would never see normally. I remember the Tab 7.7 -- in a dark room the screen was over and over covered with black circles. Wow ! The Vita shows strange textures instead. It is horrible.
My advice to you would be to start trying to avoid using your tablet or any display in a dark room. Turn a light on, it will be nice for your brain and eyes and you will not see the described things. It´s just a matter of habit, nothing else. You will get used to it and probably feel very well with it. Anyway there will still be the green haze.... Not to talk about the yellowish etc. stuff.
I returned the Tab S for a MiPad and it´s much better, really nice homogeneity (compared to other actual devices).
I had 4-5 iPad Mini Retina and all of them have horrible yellowish/blueish tint.
I had 4 iPad Airs, 3 were horrible in a similar way, now the 4th one is okay, I finally had luck.
I had 2 Galaxy 12.2 - the first one yellowish in a quarter, the second has just a slight, short yellow stripe on the bottom border.
I had a Kindle Fire HD + HDX - both with bad, ugly green spots at borders and corners. Also partially yellowish.
Once I held a Galaxy Tab 3 in my hands that was actually flawless. I was shocked. It never happened again. Was from a classmate.
Today I guess it was a mistake since I could not test in in a home-at-night-environment.
I checked dozens of Tablets in big stores here - guess what I found ???
Look at the iMacs .... Horrible yellowish tint. Horrible. It´s a shame.
I use my Tab S 10.5 in a dark room with some regularity. I've never experienced any of these odd artifacts you guys are discussing. My black screen is just black. Colors look right. White is white. I think its a fallacy to claim that all amoled screens face these issues. The amoled screen on the Tab S is the best most advanced amoled screen ever created. Problems from older devices shouldn't apply here.
Please remember based upon other user input, Samsung did seem to have a run of defective screens on these tabs they put out.
Here's a quick video test taken in a pretty dark room (it's daytime here). As you can see the screen is just black. There is absolutely no reason to avoid viewing your Tab S in a dark room. If you are not seeing the solid black I have demonstrated in this video I suggest exchanging your possibly defective unit.
ukael said:
Did anyone else check at an homogenous R:0, G:10, B:20 image in the darkness with their tab ?
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In my experience 100% of AMOLED displays exhibit this behaviour, i.e. both Tab S 8.4 I've had! The first one (exchanged because of unhappy whites) had it so obviously that it looked like a diagonal gradient fade to one corner. The second tablet shows it as a slightly patchy screen, see attached photo which looks worse than the reality.
This is only visible in a completely dark room with the display set to its darkest (or close to), displaying a very dark image (my photo is of the spec. you mentioned - hence blue/green colour). To show this I needed to use an exposure of about 1 second, if you use less the image will appear black, likewise (probably) if you try to capture it as a video using normal ISO values in camera, the camera won't pick up the background.
Armpowered said:
In my experience 100% of AMOLED displays exhibit this behaviour, i.e. both Tab S 8.4 I've had! The first one (exchanged because of unhappy whites) had it so obviously that it looked like a diagonal gradient fade to one corner. The second tablet shows it as a slightly patchy screen, see attached photo which looks worse than the reality.
This is only visible in a completely dark room with the display set to its darkest (or close to), displaying a very dark image (my photo is of the spec. you mentioned - hence blue/green colour). To show this I needed to use an exposure of about 1 second, if you use less the image will appear black, likewise (probably) if you try to capture it as a video using normal ISO values in camera, the camera won't pick up the background.
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All I can say is that is seriously messed up. My screen looks nothing like that and just as pitch black as in my video. Considering black pixels in amoled screens are basically turned off, they should be utterly and completely black and devoid of light. Am I misunderstanding and your picture is of a blue background?
All other dark colors should be solid without strange light effects as well.
mitchellvii said:
All I can say is that is seriously messed up. My screen looks nothing like that and just as pitch black as in my video. Considering black pixels in amoled screens are basically turned off, they should be utterly and completely black and devoid of light. Am I misunderstanding and your picture is of a blue background?.
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It's daytime for me at the moment but yes from memory, if you display an actual black image then it will appear as black, you see this effect when trying to display an image that is almost black, at very low levels of light output the (my!) panel isn't even.
The attached image is R0 G10 B20 and on my PC looks black - it isn't I just used "ColorPic" to check the screen colour and it shows those values.
It's not a big issue but does appear when using in fully dark room with brightness turned down, I notice it in some apps that have very dark background colours (which you'd assume were black and see as such in daylight, but aren't).
Obviously under these circumstances an LCD would appear as a (relatively) bright grey !
Armpowered said:
It's daytime for me at the moment but yes from memory, if you display an actual black image then it will appear as black, you see this effect when trying to display an image that is almost black, at very low levels of light output the (my!) panel isn't even.
The attached image is R0 G10 B20 and on my PC looks black - it isn't I just used "ColorPic" to check the screen colour and it shows those values.
It's not a big issue but does appear when using in fully dark room with brightness turned down, I notice it in some apps that have very dark background colours (which you'd assume were black and see as such in daylight, but aren't).
Obviously under these circumstances an LCD would appear as a (relatively) bright grey !
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OK I'm a bit confused. The image you attached looks either black or very very dark gray on my screen. No color variation at all. Oh well
mitchellvii said:
OK I'm a bit confused. The image you attached looks either black or very very dark gray on my screen. No color variation at all. Oh well
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Same on my tab in daylight, it only appears patchy when in a very dark room with brightness turned right down. Maybe amongst the variations some will be perfect?
Armpowered said:
Same on my tab in daylight, it only appears patchy when in a very dark room with brightness turned right down. Maybe amongst the variations some will be perfect?
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Still beats LCD light bleed
When I was dating my ex, I always kept our text conversation open on my Note 4, and my Note 4's screen was set to never sleep/dim while plugged in. I had the screen on with our text messages for probably 8-10 hours a day for months.
Now her name, phone #, the keyboard, texting app, everything is burned into my Note 4 screen. It's really bad and noticeable in every app.
I tried running the screen burn-in fixer (that flashes different colors every 2-3 seconds) for over 18 hours and it did not seem to help the problem.
Does anybody know of a fix? Could I perhaps open a pure white screen for two days and hope that burns in?
There's really no fixing it. OLED screen burn-in is a brutal thing. If you're lucky, you might be able to get it replaced under a warranty.
The important thing to do is to learn from the experience. I mean that sincerely, and I hope it doesn't come across as at all condescending in tone. Going forward, if you get an OLED device, you'll want to make sure to avoid letting things like the status bar stay the same color for very long periods of time, and shorten the time before the screen shuts off.
---------- Post added at 03:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 AM ----------
Your idea to potentially resolve it with a pure white image for an extended time, as I understand, is generally effective with LCD technology, but not OLED.
To understand why running the screen burn-in fixer for 18 hours will not fix it, you must understand how OLED, and plasma display panels, and even old-school CRTs work.
All 3 display technologies have self-illuminating phosphors. OLED panels use organic LEDs. Plasma display panels use tiny cells filled with, well, plasma. CRTs use phosphors which are illuminated by being bombarded with electrons. These phosphors slowly degrade over the life of the display, and as they do so they grow dimmer over time. By the end of their long production run, CRT phosphors reached the point where they would not noticeably dim during a human lifetime. Plasma phosphors never did, which is why burn-in was possible on the very last Panasonic plasma TVs that were manufactured before the whole thing was scuttled by the nearly bankrupt company.
Now we come to OLEDs. OLEDs are still a very immature technology and the problem of phosphors dimming rapidly and having a short lifetime has not been solved. There is a reason why LG is purposely using white OLEDs with an overlaid color filter on their OLED TVs. Samsung attempted to make OLED TVs for mass production using RGB OLEDs but withdrew from the market while they worked to improve the effective lifetime of the OLEDs, especially the blue ones.
So what actually is burn-in? It's simple. If you leave something showing statically on the OLED panel forever, such as your text message window, the illuminated OLEDs will drastically dim relative to the ones which are dark. What you're seeing is uneven wear of your OLED panel. Some pixels are worn out a lot, others are mostly unused.
Now you understand why your burn-in fixer will not do anything. Because the burn-in fixer shows static, full screen colors, it will wear down all your OLED phosphors evenly. This will never fix burn-in because you have some which are worn down unevenly, so wearing all of them down more does nothing!
Some people have attempted clever solutions, like taking a color-inverted screenshot of their burn-in and displaying that for a long time to try and wear the non burned-in pixels more to match the wear on the burned-in ones. This may theoretically work, but you must leave this image displaying for as long as you displayed the original screen that caused the burn-in. In your case, since you left your ex's text window on the screen for months, you will need to display the color-inverted image for months to wear the non burned-in pixels enough to match the burned-in ones.
My point is that you should just throw your phone away and buy a new one. You have basically destroyed your phone's OLED panel, chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on. Turn the damn screen off when you're not using your phone!
Colton127 said:
Now her name, phone #, the keyboard, texting app, everything is burned into my Note 4 screen. It's really bad and noticeable in every app.
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This thread is now over a year old, and I don't know if you've thrown away the phone by now/had the screen replaced under a warranty as user Bicknasty suggested/something else, but here's a relatively simple solution I'm surprised no one else has mentioned:
While you can't actually get rid of AMOLED screen burn-in per se, you can certainly burn in other parts of the screen to the point where everything is burnt in about the same and the difference isn't really noticeable. You would do this by first pulling up the exact image that's burnt in (go to screen you had open for so much time that it burned in; you might want to take a screenshot and edit out all the dynamic elements of the user interface like the stuff on the notification bar and individual messages, so that you don't end up with those burnt in when you're done), then inverting the colors (you can find an option to do this in the settings application), and then leaving that image open 24/7 until the burn in of the inverted image has canceled out the original burn-in (you should check on this periodically by pulling up a white image that fills the screen). Remember, this won't technically get rid of the burn-in, but it'll make it impossible to notice. Good luck