So it is pretty much confirmed that Windows Phone 8 will use the Windows 8 ARM kernel, and Windows Phone 8 will be compatible with apps for Windows Phone 7/7.5. This is true because most WP apps today are written in Silverlight or XNA, which does not care what kernel the OS uses as long as there's an interpreter for the compiled code. Only a few apps use native code that needs to be recompiled for Windows Phone 8.
But what about the hardware drivers and OEM customizations on our phones? OEMs are mandated to use Qualcomm processors, but they can use whatever brand of camera modules and sensors as long as the drivers are there. Special camera modes and functions are provided by the phone OEM which I believe is low level enough, they are written in native code. Special functions not provided by Windows Phone 7 itself, such as DLNA or SRS Sound Enhancer, are also likely to be native code.
How can these native code intended for the Windows CE 6 kernel survive a kernel change to Windows 8 ARM? Will the OEMs rework their stuff to support Windows Phone 8? Or will we lose the OEM features when we upgrade to WP8? Will there be devices stuck in WP7.x forever because crucial hardware drivers (e.g. driver for the camera and sensors) aren't available for WP8?
Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.
vangrieg said:
Who knows. But the only existing rumor that would give an answer to your query is that no single WP7 device will ever be updated to Apollo, so no features will be lost.
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WTF you smoking?
The rumor is that ALL EXISTING windows phone 7 devices including 1st generation will update to apollo. They may however not have all the features if hardware requires them. Tango brings support for lowerend handsets and will update to apollo. If your carrier doesn't roll out the update, look for it in the send cab thread and load it yourself. They are ms stock updates so no worries about a hacked version.
I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.
http://wmpoweruser.com/tag/apollo/
The rumors are false. No one has actually said but it would be logical that it would... especially for 2nd gen handsets.
vangrieg said:
I didn't say that's what I think or believe. There hasn't been any official info on the upgrade path whatsoever. The only information was that WP7 apps would work on WP8. Which, come to think of it, doesn't say anything about current device upgradeability.
The rumor is that there won't be any upgrades. Take it as a rumor, I'm not trying to endorse it in any way, just acknowledging it exists.
I personally would give it some credit but not in the sense the source implies. I'd say he's playing. WP7 devices may never get "Apollo" which is this unicorn WP based on NT kernel, but from the end user perspective all you need is Apollo runtimes ported to WP7. So you'll have most of the WP8 experience on WP7 without running WP8. And of course you'd keep your beloved HTC hub and such stuff on your current device.
But all that is my speculation, not founded on any solid data.
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I've been spending half my net time today trying to find an answer for this question. I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4. My problem is to buy the phone with the best hardware, which isn't much different to the lowest spec in WP7, and then upgrade the OS when it's released, or to buy a 1st gen phone cheap on a shorter contract so that my time on WP7 is limited and I can get a new WP8 phone a while later. Hopefully MS will announce something soon...
WMPoweruser has these pages-
We [MS]were pretty clear on this. Any app built today will run on next major Windows Phone version.
microsoft-needs-to-reassure-windows-phone-7-buyers-their-phones-are-upgradable
do not base a whole rumour on only something Eldar say
windows-phone-roadmap
because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.
bbobeckyj said:
I've resisted putting WP7 on my HD2, but it's slowly dying, and my contract ends in a couple of months, so I'm researching the best options now, only to find that I may yet again be buying another obsolete OS as WP8 is due in Q4.
Click to expand...
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Also, remember that Mobile World Congress runs from 27 February to 1 March. There will probably be more information coming out around that time.
Here's another article (published in November) from a former Microsoft distinguished engineer.
http://hal2020.com/2011/11/04/windows-phone-8-and-windows-8-cousins-or-siblings/
His opinion was:
It is likely WP8 will run on first generation WP phones, and near certain it will work on the second generation (those that initially ship with) WP7.5 Microsoft wants a reputation of being as end-user friendly as Apple and so will not drop updates on older phones until their is a technological reason to do so. Plus it isn’t likely to want to piss people off who are sill in a 2-year contract period, which will be the case with most of the installed base. So I don’t see WP8 as a reason to wait. Now if you already have a first gen device (e.g., Samsung Focus) you might want to skip the second gen (e.g., Focus S) and see what happens next summer or fall.
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At the moment, I haven't seen any compelling evidence about WP8 upgrades one way or the other.
I don't think they will even have a beta for it this year, i would say they would push it out by this time next year, maybe we will get something from MIX13?
ROCOAFZ said:
because of the newer phones coming out though prolly what i would do is pick up a cheap surround or focus off ebay to get you buy (they are less then 100.00) and use your upgrade on a premium phone on release. Apollo is bringing multicore phones so you won't see them until then since pre-apollo doesn't support them. Once it's released, if you 1st gen makes it, sell it and you'll get your 100 bucks back with apollo already on it. If it doesn't, well you still haven't used your upgrade so you can get a new phone at a low cost with contract renewal.
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No such luck, nothing is going that cheaply in England, and the shortest contract on a new phone is for 18 months. I've got about 2 months to go, hopefully we'll know more by then, and the Titan 2 and Lumia 900 are due out soon after that...
The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
The first Gen devices will be updated, just like the iPhone 3GS is still updated (released in 2009 and just got iOS5).
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Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.
bbobeckyj said:
Do you know this for a fact, or is it just what you think will happen?
If the former, do you have a source?
If the latter, I would like to agree, and my gut feeling is the same. But this being microsoft you can't assume too much.
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you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
anyway, as to the update rumors and assumptions... i wouldn't trust any of them until it's in hand. not one.
ohgood said:
you folks have craigslist ( or similar local for-sale listings ?) in england ? that's where i buy and sell my handsets. generally they're between 1/2 to 1/4 of the new price at a store, and you have hands-on experience before handing off the cash.
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We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.
At the very list 2nd Gen devices (ship with Mango) will get a one form of the update. Can't say i'm as sure about 1st Gen devices though. However i'd imagine MS wants to reward their loyal users (1st Gen owners) so they may also get a toned down version of the update too.
bbobeckyj said:
We do have craigslist, but it's not anywhere near the same size as the US site, it's next to useless outside of the major urban areas like London. eBay is more popular and even that has very few WP7 items for sale. The ones on sale are still quite expensive, I'm watching less than ten, all first gen, and I expect all will end at well over £100. There are also not many different models, a few HD7s, one or two others, but most are not listed. Also the sim only contracts are barely cheaper them the ones with the phones, the major difference is that the contracts are shorter. Do that negates the cost savings from buying second hand.
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Understood, good info here- thanked
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
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Click to collapse
don't worry, there is no benefit to doing that. all it would do is cause terribly bad publicity, and millions of customer dissupport calls.
XxAndrexX said:
I'm more worried about something else. What will happen if Microsoft puts out an anti piracy software like Windows advantage, and every flashed device, (caused by update fails, or theetering needs) will be banned or simply not updated?? the most of people, who flashed their devices, don't have a backup of their original rom.... I'm really worried about this, I hate to hack my phone to get it work proper!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there already is a form of this, but its only triggered when it's detected that WP is being installed on a device it wasn't designed for. Like an android or WM device for example and the very early builds did encounter it.
A major MAJOR advantage WP7 has over Android is not being fragmented. Why would they throw that away? That seems stupid.
Sent from my SGH-I897
Related
The promises are good but like that first update I feel like we're going to wait until the last quarter of the year to get anything.
Thoughts?
If all these features here today WP7 would be in a much better place. Ideally the update should come before the iPhone 5 but I don't see that happening.
nor do I nothing has been specc'd regarding the new hw either...but the nokai thing is a good thing for microsoft
Oh My God! No new devices?!
All this for (almost) nothing!
Why do you need new devices? Do you really think a front facing camera will be implemented this year? Do you feel the need for more power? Is the phone not fluid enough for you? This is what WP7 was designed for, not to NEED new devices, and not to create obsolete hardware with new releases. I'm glad all of these features will be on the original devices, it establishes the loyalty promised, and I'm excited what 2011 will bring. Considering Q4 this year will be a year of release, I think all of those included features, and more I'm sure, go beyond any educated person's realistic expectations, and are nothing short of satisfying.
For those who missed it, the entire keynote video will be up on the MWC site, but you can see the demo of 3rd party multitasking and Kinect integration below. It was interesting to hear that, both, Steve Ballmer and Joe Belfiore mentioned that these are not all the new features to come and that we'll be hearing more later this year (it hinted at the next generation of hardware devices).
Multitasking:
Kinect:
You can also see the press release here.
cant wait for those update, it is just awesome.
FiyaFleye said:
Why do you need new devices? Do you really think a front facing camera will be implemented this year? Do you feel the need for more power? Is the phone not fluid enough for you? This is what WP7 was designed for, not to NEED new devices, and not to create obsolete hardware with new releases. I'm glad all of these features will be on the original devices, it establishes the loyalty promised, and I'm excited what 2011 will bring. Considering Q4 this year will be a year of release, I think all of those included features, and more I'm sure, go beyond any educated person's realistic expectations, and are nothing short of satisfying.
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Do you think WP7 didn't sell just because of the OS?
No, the hardware isn't compelling except for a couple of exceptions. Hardware is what drives sales initially and even with all the updates the Mozart, Trophy, Quantum, etc. will still be very average phones, specially when put next to a new Android or Apple phone.
Your point would be valid if the update was coming within 3 months but I bet you my Omnia 7 that won't be the case.
Peew971 said:
Do you think WP7 didn't sell just because of the OS?
No, the hardware isn't compelling except for a couple of exceptions. Hardware is what drives sales initially and even with all the updates the Mozart, Trophy, Quantum, etc. will still be very average phones, specially when put next to a new Android or Apple phone.
Your point would be valid if the update was coming within 3 months but I bet you my Omnia 7 that won't be the case.
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There are numerous Android devices running on newer hardware and they look like average devices next to a WP7 device, not the other way around. Though I would have liked to see "prettier" models, I don't see the need for an advancement in hardware. The update is actually coming in less than one month... Just saying. There is one iPhone released every year, and since people on this forum are so quick to compare the iPhone and WP7 though I'm against it, I'll do it. That one phone gets bought throughout the whole year, even without a single update. So, I am more excited to hear about updates seeing as a refresh in a 'look' isn't so much needed.
But, with that being said, I think the OEMs will showcase the new devices, not Microsoft, if there are any.
FiyaFleye said:
Though I would have liked to see "prettier" models
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Click to collapse
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
FiyaFleye said:
The update is actually coming in less than one month... Just saying.
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Click to collapse
The C&P update is due soon, there's no ETA for anything else except 2011.
Peew971 said:
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
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Again, that might be an OEM showcase though, not a Microsoft one, they don't make the phones.
Peew971 said:
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
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+1
This is one of the reasons I haven't upgraded yet. I want a great piece of distinctive hardware.
FiyaFleye said:
Again, that might be an OEM showcase though, not a Microsoft one, they don't make the phones.
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Allow me to have serious doubts. Samsung and LG already had their conference with no mention of WP7. That leaves HTC, Dell and maybe Acer. I think Microsoft would have had at least one showcase new phone to demo if there was one.
Peew971 said:
Allow me to have serious doubts. Samsung and LG already had their conference with no mention of WP7. That leaves HTC, Dell and maybe Acer. I think Microsoft would have had at least one showcase show to demo if there was one.
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In the conference, Ballmer mentioned the next generation of hardware announcements will be later on in the year. I wouldn't expect to see new hardware until either Christmas this year or next year. The Nokia concept images look quite nice.
Since the last thread had a 'no opinions' rule, I'll post this here:
So it seems like anyone with half a brain was correct - Microsoft is playing Apple's cynical game of withholding vital, easily-implemented features so that they can add them later to much media fanfare
They are reaching out to the casual base by gaining media support (these guys just loooove routine feature updates), presenting the illusion of "moving forward" ("hey look, we can do THAT now!") and not overwhelming the nontechnical user by not having all features available from the get-go.
In the process they are pissing on the so-called 'core base' (which aren't their core base at all obviously - clearly there is much more money to be made from the easily-impressionable, technologically-retarded crowd)
And that's all fine and dandy, but I just don't understand why people from THIS site would support this business model.
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I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
keyboardP said:
In the conference, Ballmer mentioned the next generation of hardware announcements will be later on in the year. I wouldn't expect to see new hardware until either Christmas this year or next year. The Nokia concept images look quite nice.
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Oh yeah, I have no doubts we'll see new phones this year but if they come around Christmas along with the Nokia phones that's a whole year gone with only average devices on sale. That's not going to boost sales.
Pickx said:
Since the last thread had a 'no opinions' rule, I'll post this here:
I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly think you're wrong here. Apple does this to warrant the purchase of a new iPhone, and outdate their older models, whereas the WinPhone releases are going to work on original launch devices. It isn't as though Microsoft is charging us for these updates either, they have no incentives to hold back these updates, actually, in the position they're in, it's in their best interest to be quick with them.
Pickx said:
I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't be so cynical. The first thing people are going to do when entering a dominated market is to compare the two devices. I don't think copy and paste was left out for tactical reasons because it's such a basic feature that it created more negativity at launch than positivity right now.
Apple could afford to do that because of their following and the 'trendy' kids who would buy the product regardless of what it has or doesn't have, because it has the 'Apple' brand on it.
Also, with you comparing the size of MS to its capabilities of releasing products shows a lack of understanding of how the company actually works. In fact, its size actually works against it at times.
There are some features that may be delayed for tactical reasons (flash?), but I hardly think copy/paste and multitasking would be dropped in order to gain some fanfare as they actually harmed the product when inevitably compared to the iPhone at launch.
Peew971 said:
Oh yeah, I have no doubts we'll see new phones this year but if they come around Christmas along with the Nokia phones that's a whole year gone with only average devices on sale. That's not going to boost sales.
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Click to collapse
MS is in it for the long run though. It would make little sense in releasing devices running on current hardware specs, when people could wait towards the end of the year for the next generation specs. Of course, they might do that, but I don't think it makes much sense to.
keyboardP said:
There are some features that may be delayed for tactical reasons (flash?), but I hardly think copy/paste and multitasking would be dropped in order to gain some fanfare as they actually harmed the product when inevitably compared to the iPhone at launch.
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Click to collapse
Yes, but which crowd did it hurt its chances with? The kind of who compare features and read tech blogs aka NOT the casuals. This crowd is becoming increasingly irrelevant when it comes to actually selling devices.
I still think the biggest reason to withhold features is media support. Mobile phone wars have demonstrated time and time again that constant media attention is cardinal to continued interest in a product (especially when said product is, say, an operating system a.k.a something which an entire line of products is based on). By routinely making feature updates, and delivering said features with some "user experience glitter" on top, Apple has been able to receive constant attention even from news outlets that are not strictly related to consumer tech. Microsoft would, naturally, want a similar treatment but according to my view, they are doing this the easy way - not by announcing feature updates that contain so-called revolutionary features but rather with features that the competition has already had for a while.
Also, if WP7 had copy/paste, multitasking, Flash on launch date, what would Ballmer be showing us now on MWC? Tight SkyDrive integration is a fantastic feature IMO but the average non-techie guy who already has a WP7 device just wouldn't find it as "sexy" as a YouTube video that shows the device multitasking.
pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
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Click to collapse
No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.
imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks
I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.
i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..
imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.
Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using 2010 Data
Take out employee
TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
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Click to collapse
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/
nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
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Click to collapse
That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.
ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
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Click to collapse
It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
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The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
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Click to collapse
The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?
nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
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Click to collapse
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.
N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.
So basically what we are going to get is just the "new" start screen? nothing else? like maps powered by nokia, skype integration?
I would love to know too. Almost sold my Lumia already, but I dont know which phone I get instead it. I'll keep it for a while.
Guess we will know in a few days, no one knows it right now.
Paul Thurrott has a write-up about this here:
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windowsphone75/windows-phone-78-preview-143476
Wait.. No multitasking? Nor Skype integrated!?!?
Seems like MS is doing everything to loose these 1-2% of the smartphones market...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1722502
I wont buy another windows phone anymore! I liked windows phone so much, but microsoft disappoint me with no updates for first generation devices. If the old phones would also get the new kernel, app-compability and skype-integration, then would it be enough. But Microsoft is ****ing stupid and dropps the little amount of windows phone users in only one day!
luizmeme said:
So basically what we are going to get is just the "new" start screen? nothing else? like maps powered by nokia, skype integration?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just contacted the WinPhoneSupport:
http://www.twitter.com/WinPhoneSupport/status/215556734205435904
@WinPhoneSupport: @ChrisK91 The only thing announced for 7.8 is the change of the start screen. ^EB
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ruyzalim said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1722502
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Click to collapse
It's a stupid marketing bull**** from MS guy... This Belfiore guy wrote:
Windows Phone 8 is a generation shift in technology, which means that it will not run on existing hardware. BUT we care deeply about our existing customers and want to keep their phones fresh, so we’re providing the new Start screen in this new update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a complete bull****! "shift in technology"... He should try Galaxy S III first!
But the facts are:
- MS just made stupidest decision in a years. Probably next 5 month WP7 sales will fall to 0.
- also, I'm expecting the app developers (as I am) will stop developing new stuff for "outdated" WP7 platform;
- it's a painful blow to manufacturers, especially to Nokia! Who will buy "gorgeous Lumia 900" now if it become outdated old piece of hardware so shortly? Check ebay in few days - Lumia 900 price will be bellow $200...
- and, finally, the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers. Who will spend money for "brand new" WP8 if next year they will announce WP9?
So, my conclusion: it's a very good time to sell MS stocks right now! Don't wait and risk your money...
freddx said:
I wont buy another windows phone anymore! I liked windows phone so much, but microsoft disappoint me with no updates for first generation devices. If the old phones would also get the new kernel, app-compability and skype-integration, then would it be enough. But Microsoft is ****ing stupid and dropps the little amount of windows phone users in only one day!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.
jessenic said:
Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.
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Click to collapse
Sorry I was in rage....but an update with more features would be nice The "old" hardware can do more than only a new start screen. Apple even gives a iOS6 lite to the 3Gs and all appstore-apps are compatible...
sensboston said:
It's a stupid marketing bull**** from MS guy... This Belfiore guy wrote:
It's a complete bull****! "shift in technology"... He should try Galaxy S III first!
But the facts are:
- MS just made stupidest decision in a years. Probably next 5 month WP7 sales will fall to 0.
- also, I'm expecting the app developers (as I am) will stop developing new stuff for "outdated" WP7 platform;
- it's a painful blow to manufacturers, especially to Nokia! Who will buy "gorgeous Lumia 900" now if it become outdated old piece of hardware so shortly? Check ebay in few days - Lumia 900 price will be bellow $200...
- and, finally, the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers. Who will spend money for "brand new" WP8 if next year they will announce WP9?
So, my conclusion: it's a very good time to sell MS stocks right now! Don't wait and risk your money...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You shouldn't sell MS stocks right now, because of one developer summit. Of course, there are a lot of disappointed users (including me) about the way MS took. But I don't think that every point in your list is valid. I doubt that WP7 sales will drop to 0. There are a lot of people buying phones based on feel. However I guess the WP7 sales will decrease in the coming months. At least the sales of new expensive devices like the Titan or Lumia 900. I also expect the prices of current handsets to drop over a few days.
Microsofts course could harm Nokia, I totally agree. When they made Nokia Drive available to every device, Nokia lost a unique selling point. One of the reasons why I bought a Lumia 800 was the free navigation. I'm expecting that Nokia's stock will drop even further in the coming days, if there aren't any new announcements that "improve" the current situation.
I also get that developers will target new phones. However how do you develop for Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8? Most likely with C# and the .Net framework. And guess what? You can run .Net based Apps on Windows Phone 7 as well. But at first I was also skeptical about this question and asked it in a Nokia Conversations discussion. The answer of a Nokia employee is attached.
the most important thing: Microsoft has lost the trust and loyalty of customers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree. However they can gain (at least my) trust back by providing not only the new start screen, but other improvements as well. The rumored new notification system comes to mind.
All in all I guess this announcement did not resolve the current update situation. In a nutshell MS stated that WP8 will be based on a new kernel and that this new kernel won't come to existing devices. Most of the new announcements were hardware related. One of the software things is the start screen, and this one is coming in Windows Phone 7.8. Did did not say, that this start screen is the only thing in this update. As stated above, MS should release (and continue releasing) updates that add WP8 functionality to WP7.
jessenic said:
Calm down... Don't you know what a kernel change means? It's like installing linux over windows on your PC. The OEM would start from scratch, rewrite every driver on the device (cpu, gpu, display, buttons, touch, accelerometer, compass, bluetooth, wlan... And the list goes on forever), that would take about 9 months at least. The OEM would loose more money than it would get.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it's of course expensive. But if Microsoft stays coherent with the kernel they could most likely reuse the code in the future. But I think the problem is hardware related. On one side there are the NFC features. Also the SecureBoot can't be integrated (at least AFAIK) only software vise. They have special hardware requirements and current phones don't meet them. Then again, the current CPUs are very fast and can run the Windows Phone 7.8 experience.
Chris, you are optimistic guy (and it's OK!) but I believe we do have more points for pessimism now...
What's happened - it's not a hardware-related but just marketing (read - stupid marketing!) issue. Microsoft is copying Apple's strategy now (probably they planned to sell own MS handsets) but without Steve Jobs magic it's hopeless...
MS public persons explanations - it's a bull****, don't trust 'em! It's like a "4 GB limitation of x86 OS'es" (what is an outrageous lie). I'm 99% sure it's happened because of two reasons:
- they want to "save" (he-he) some money for dropping old handsets support ;
- but the primary reason (I think so): they want to sell their own handsets
Also, unsuccessful WP7 marketing campaign during last two years should open our eyes...
I'd like to be optimistic but...
@sensbottom: let me correct your two mistakes there:
a) 4GB is really limit of 32bit operating systems. PAE requires the applications to support it => almost none do.
b) Supporting another system takes more money than upgrading them to the same one. Long term.
@OndaTer, first of all, I'm sensboston (Boston - it's a city on the East cost of US)
Second, read this: http://www.unawave.de/windows-7-tipps/32-bit-ram-barrier.html?lang=EN You may google for more if you want...
Third, what do you mean by "another system"? What "another" system? WP8 devices will have same CPU (arm) as current handsets; of course, adding support of current handsets should cost some money! But loosing the trust (finally) is much more expensive, you'll see it by the end of this month (even week). Just mark today's MS stock price...
Sorry, I always read it that way
a) Yes, it is called PAE, which is exactly what I wrote. Read it again! It is NOT possible to address >4GB with 32bit addresses. PAE uses 36bit addressing, but the application HAS to be compiled to be able to support the extra space!
b) "It is more money consuming (long term) to work on 7.8 line and 8.0+ line."
// I mean - application itself has only 4GB virtual space. Yes, the rest of the system can move the base of each application and thus use >4GB RAM. But note that also drivers must support it and that's why it is usually targetted at servers and it is disabled on desktops!
// ah I see what you mean - I thought that they removed it after SP2 or SP3 of XP (the issues with driver compatibility with PAE enabled).
sensboston said:
Chris, you are optimistic guy (and it's OK!) but I believe we do have more points for pessimism now...
What's happened - it's not a hardware-related but just marketing (read - stupid marketing!) issue. Microsoft is copying Apple's strategy now (probably they planned to sell own MS handsets) but without Steve Jobs magic it's hopeless...
MS public persons explanations - it's a bull****, don't trust 'em! It's like a "4 GB limitation of x86 OS'es" (what is an outrageous lie). I'm 99% sure it's happened because of two reasons:
- they want to "save" (he-he) some money for dropping old handsets support ;
- but the primary reason (I think so): they want to sell their own handsets
Also, unsuccessful WP7 marketing campaign during last two years should open our eyes...
I'd like to be optimistic but...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, we don't really have a choice here. I cannot return my phone and I have to live with it until 2013. At the moment we should wait what Microsoft announces about the 7.8 update. The Nokia Conversations Post mentioned multiple changes in the Windows Phone 7.8 update. They also reassured that they will stay committed to delivering updates. And it's not like that our phones will suddenly stop to work. Everything will be as integrated as before.
ChrisKringel said:
Well, we don't really have a choice here. I cannot return my phone and I have to live with it until 2013. At the moment we should wait what Microsoft announces about the 7.8 update. The Nokia Conversations Post mentioned multiple changes in the Windows Phone 7.8 update. They also reassured that they will stay committed to delivering updates. And it's not like that our phones will suddenly stop to work. Everything will be as integrated as before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS!
Im a little annoyed that my titan wont get the full WP8 update but im sure it will still get some new features! they've only shown WP8 once so far at a dev summit and people are saying they are going to sell there phones its mad! also i dont get people complaining that there first gen phones are getting WP8! they will be 2 years old!!! You are getting a update like apple would basically so stop complaining! If you were on android you would be out in the cold with a two year old handset most likely
WP 7.5 lacks a lot of features and we're going to be left out just like that.
This is just great. It's been like 6 months since I bought my phone and it's already outdated. Thank you MS. My phone is now nothing but a brick!
luizmeme said:
WP 7.5 lacks a lot of features and we're going to be left out just like that.
This is just great. It's been like 6 months since I bought my phone and it's already outdated. Thank you MS. My phone is now nothing but a brick!
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Click to collapse
ok your getting a WP7.8 update arent you? you dont know what thats going to contain yet! also by the time this comes out your phone will actually be 12 months old almost and oh yes last time i checked the phone isnt suddenly going to stop working is it!
Been thinking a bit.
I have been waiting for a Nokia WP phone since dec.2011. I'm sure that just like many of you, I have been disappointed by the lack of WP8 update.
But then, I looked at my phone.
I currently own a Motorola defy +, a device which currently is stuck at Android 2.3.4. I never got a 4.0 update for my phone. The reason? Phone stability. The community did indeed attempt to port 4.0 on my phone, but sadly, I see it as a potential failure; there are still lots of bugs to iron out, and it will take more time to fix than what I suppose the devs will ever waste time on.
Do I complain? Hardly. I complain about the OS being Android and thus a cheap, unstable OS. But nothing else.
So, 2.3 isn't that bad, and 4.0 isn't that necessary. I live with it.
Now, how I see stuff in the WP universe?
7.8 isn't that bad, and 8.0 isn't that necessary.
I live with it.
And honestly, I am really tempted to get a lumia 800. And maybe even will. I seriously doubt that cheap 8 phones will appear instantly, since people want dual-cores and more RAM, and, and...
But I think that WP7.8 will remain the cheap version of 8, and that we will even see new phones with 7.8 on board. All for the sake of OS stability.
You can't be the fastest guy with your tech stuff unless you're bloody rich.
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
That is the big question: what will the Windows Phone answer for the low-end and emerging market? Will it be these running 7.8 or 8? Honestly, I cannot see Microsoft wanting both to co-exist for very long.
To MS, 7 has not been exactly a big hit with the general public. Plus, I would think that Microsoft would want to get all Windows Phone users onto 8 as soon as possible. That way, they can grow the platform the fastest without being dragged down by the old OS. When WP8 launches later this year, they want a big splash where lots of people buy into it right away. They cannot afford no interest or even a lackluster response. That is why I think Nokia and/or Microsoft should consider a trade-in program where WP7 users get some sort of discount on a WP8 device. At least this way, the tech news websites will report that WP8 is off to a great start. When 7 was launched, there were sites that called it DOA.
drupad2drupad said:
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And may I add to those users who purchased your phones in the last 6 months, what is wrong with your phone now? Has it contracted a mobile virus since last Wednesday that has rendered it useless? Does it not perform the same as the day you bought it? If your answer is "no" to any of the above, then you need to see a professional. You have panicked yourselves into a frenzy that requires medication.
drupad2drupad said:
I think most people who panicked for not having Windows 8 on their phones are more so because they think:
a) They won't have new apps instantly
b) Devs won't develop anything new instantly
c) New features won't come to their phone instantly
I've spent my Sunday watching that video from Dev summit again. I am going to swallow my posts from earlier (full of optimism, they were) and say that no, we might after all not get any features from WP8 but only the start screen. But then you know what? I am fine with that.
Just like you said, OS wise - those who purchased Lumias or Titans, surely were and are happy with the OS as it is, else why would they shell out so many pounds for a phone. Now that we've established that people are happy with their phone in the state in which they bought it, let us talk about 'support'.
I am fine with the whole idea because, I have convinced myself that new apps won't stop coming instantly, devs won't stop developing instantly, new features won't stop coming to my phone instantly. For at least another year after the launch of WP8, things will stay as they are. Then, WP *might* die. Because I haven't forgotten how long it took them to kill WM6.5, I know it will take them even longer while Nokia uses their Lumias as low end phones.
Here is an example - An Eclair (2.1 phone) is still being sold and purchased for about £190 on play.com while we have what 2 or 3 (?) Android ICS phones out in the wild? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/...apixel-Touch-Screen-Mobile-Phone/Product.html
Now if you consider WP7.8 to be WP ICS, then by that analogy, WP7.5 is an Froyo phone for WP range. I don't see why Nokia or any other OEMs can't offer at least for another year, WP7.8 (aka ICS WP) along with WP8 (aka Jelly bean WP). Nokia's Lumia 710 (Mango aka Froyo-like) phone is being sold for £130 currently anyway!
At least for WP, ALL apps and games run on its Eclair (pre-NoDo), Froyo (Mango), Gingerbread (Tango), WP7.8 (ICS) and WP8 (Jelly bean)!
What we are forgetting in mid of all these first world crisis is that Nokia's attempt to save itself also includes re-entering the market + attracting those feature phone users for whom WP7 or WP7.5 or WP7.8 = a smartphone because they need a phone to text, call, email and use couple of apps at max!
I am going to leave this post here and will come back to say I told you so (hopefully) a year after WP8 launch, when MSFT would have supported all the Lumias and Titans for 18 months at least by then
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Change the third instantly to forever and change another two instantly to probably would be the correct answer, though no one would like to commit the fact.:cyclops:
A smartphone without proper apps is just a dumbphone. For those who lives well without apps, low end Android and Symbian phones would fit their needs while saving their money, why bother spending more than 500EUR for such a device? (Don't tell me the AT&T offer unless you can bring it worldwide) Let's see how M$ deal with this situation.
fatclue said:
And may I add to those users who purchased your phones in the last 6 months, what is wrong with your phone now? Has it contracted a mobile virus since last Wednesday that has rendered it useless? Does it not perform the same as the day you bought it? If your answer is "no" to any of the above, then you need to see a professional. You have panicked yourselves into a frenzy that requires medication.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol you think you are smart by saing that...but you dont know everything...you haven't considered a lot of things.
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
More over, MS is refering to 2nd gen as legacy devices, as if my lumia 800 was released in 2005, and there is talk that wp 7.8 devices will be sold as a low end version of wp8 Thats exactly what i imagined when i made the switch to lumia and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
MS is making this even worse by not porting all the possible features to wp 7.8.
So pls excuse me if i vent my anger on MS and ppl like you that support its decision so blindly.
Yes i am very happy with my lumia and this will not change, but the public opinion will.
You must understand that the current wp users, as myself, made the decision to go with WP because we didnt like android and ios, even if everyone uses ios and android. We, as wp users where going to battle against ios and android showing that it can be done better. I saw great potential in the OS and trusted MS and Nokia to deliver. Insted the whole thing backfires and MS abandons its efforts on the OS and breaks all promises and trust to the users.
People like me are beging to realise the actual interst of a company, and this is sad because we trusted MS, they involve themselves in so many student projects and are not afraid to inovate, but they dont really care about the users, they just care about the money. They abandoned wm 6.5 now wp 7.8 ... Whats next
Frosty3k said:
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I myself have considered a lot of things about the WP7.8 update, but I didn't realize MS disallows the use of apps as soon as WP8 is released... oh, wait. it doesn't!
The WP7 Marketplace will not instantly disappear. You will still be able to install all of the apps already in the marketplace. Granted, the flow of apps *might* slow down but surely it wont stop instantly seeing as WP8 needs to gain adoption before being a reasonable mobile ecosystem to abandon WP7. But WP7 has a magnitude of apps already available to its disposal that cover a lot of functions so your phone will not be useless unless it is already useless.
Frosty3k said:
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats odd, I must admit... You claim that WP7 won't be updated, but later on you acknowledge that WP7.8 is coming - don't you feel you're contradicting yourself just a little bit?
Frosty3k said:
and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, I never realized that Nokia stated that the Lumia 800 is a high-end device as it was clearly NOT - it was a common knowledge that Nokia can and will introduce a more advanced device after the Lumia 800 (which was indeed the Lumia 900) and moreover - even the Lumia 900 was not supposed to be "high-end" but more of a "mid-high-end" as high-end devices which are TRULY high-end and are already sold in the market (with dual and quad cores) are not supported in the current version of WP7, and the MS-Nokia hardware leap will not occur until WP8 is released...
Ah, and BTW - A device which you just bought theoretically WILL BE old and maybe even low-end in just a few months. Thats the nature of this market, where the technology pace is leaping a whole generation in less than a year - you can NEVER win this race, you just have to buy the most suitable device for you at the moment and replace it after a year if you wish to keep yourself "up-to-date" hardware-wise...
Frosty3k said:
lol you think you are smart by saing that...but you dont know everything...you haven't considered a lot of things.
Do you consider it is fair...for a user to spend 400€ for a high end device, only to find 3 months later that all the support (updates + apps) is gone?
Make no mistake...a smart dev will code for wp8 because he writes 1app and he gets 3, with very little effort. And so the apps for wp7 will stop flowing...and a phone with no apps is allmost useless. To demonstrate this...try reseting your phone and use it without any aditional apps for a month...see how that turns out.
More over, MS is refering to 2nd gen as legacy devices, as if my lumia 800 was released in 2005, and there is talk that wp 7.8 devices will be sold as a low end version of wp8 Thats exactly what i imagined when i made the switch to lumia and please tell me how would you feel if you phone, that you worked so hard to get, would be considered a low-end device in a few months
MS is making this even worse by not porting all the possible features to wp 7.8.
So pls excuse me if i vent my anger on MS and ppl like you that support its decision so blindly.
Yes i am very happy with my lumia and this will not change, but the public opinion will.
You must understand that the current wp users, as myself, made the decision to go with WP because we didnt like android and ios, even if everyone uses ios and android. We, as wp users where going to battle against ios and android showing that it can be done better. I saw great potential in the OS and trusted MS and Nokia to deliver. Insted the whole thing backfires and MS abandons its efforts on the OS and breaks all promises and trust to the users.
People like me are beging to realise the actual interst of a company, and this is sad because we trusted MS, they involve themselves in so many student projects and are not afraid to inovate, but they dont really care about the users, they just care about the money. They abandoned wm 6.5 now wp 7.8 ... Whats next
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
Questions
Just few questions guys.
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
efektos said:
Thats odd, I must admit... You claim that WP7 won't be updated, but later on you acknowledge that WP7.8 is coming - don't you feel you're contradicting yourself just a little bit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After the 7.8 startscreen lands on current 7.5 hardware you can wave BB to updates...thats it...MS will be all about the new wp8. Pls dont play stupid on this..you know what we are talking about.
efektos said:
First, I never realized that Nokia stated that the Lumia 800 is a high-end device as it was clearly NOT - it was a common knowledge that Nokia can and will introduce a more advanced device after the Lumia 800 (which was indeed the Lumia 900) and moreover - even the Lumia 900 was not supposed to be "high-end" but more of a "mid-high-end" as high-end devices which are TRULY high-end and are already sold in the market (with dual and quad cores) are not supported in the current version of WP7, and the MS-Nokia hardware leap will not occur until WP8 is released...
Ah, and BTW - A device which you just bought theoretically WILL BE old and maybe even low-end in just a few months. Thats the nature of this market, where the technology pace is leaping a whole generation in less than a year - you can NEVER win this race, you just have to buy the most suitable device for you at the moment and replace it after a year if you wish to keep yourself "up-to-date" hardware-wise...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a giro and a ff camera dosen't make a phone that much better 800 and 900 are almost the same, except the 900 was built primarily as an US device, while the 800 has the right form factor for EU and Asia.
I wont debate over what you said about the lumia 800 not being high end...its a matter of opinion. Actually I'll go into into in just a bit
For example i dont find the GSIII to be a better phone. I dosent matter how many CPUs you have and how much ram...its how you use those resources..and that GSIII still lags...but other users that are not so mad with android...might like it 10 times more than a lumia. It depends on what you like, and over the years, I realized its a loosing battle trying to convince someone that your point of view is the right one.
That being said, I think you are missing the point I was trying to make in my post, your reply is offtopic, and i have the feeling you are arguing just for the sake or arguing.
ebautista said:
Just few questions guys.
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
4. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You said "4." 2 times.
fatclue said:
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe it will not "gone". But slowly will go down. If WP8 will release, developers will be divided. Some will do native (C/C++), some will stay in wp7 coz MSFT said WP7 apps will still run in WP8, and some will do both but of course eventually will stop supporting wp7 as time goes.
---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
OptimusLove said:
You said "4." 2 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
updated. thanks man!
fatclue said:
I may not be as smart as you since you seem to have a crystal ball that the rest of us lack. Please provide one link, just one will do, where Microsoft has said that "all the support (updates + apps) is gone?". You've been a member here since January so I'm confident you have read articles regarding the state of affairs with Windows Phone. In all that time you didn't catch one single article that stated that legacy devices were probably NOT going to get Apollo? That's a 50/50 proposition. If you like those odds then Vegas is your kind of town. Oh wait, that's right, you have a crystal ball. Face it, you saved up some money and were itching to go out and spend it immediately without considering that tech items change very rapidly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont have a crystal ball, i have a brain, and im not sure which one of those two you're missing.
Think about it, what happened to WM6.5? how many updates did the OS get after it was ditched? not to mention that the store was closed. What do you think it will happen to WP7.x ? crystal ball anyone ?
I know how things run in the industry, I've been taking part in this for a long time, but i have never seen something fade this quickly. The lumia phones are not even a year old
who does this?? apple? i dont think so, you can still get new apps on a 3GS that is a 3 year old phone...google?? no...you can get all the stuff you like and more on a galaxy S or htc desire, 2 years old....and you will continue to get new stuff for much more.
look..its not about Apollo, its about the fact that wp8 apps cant run on wp7 hardware....this is fatal for 7.x
because of this the app well will dry out, the big players will code on wp8 and all the new stuff will be there...even if there are devs still loyal to wp7.x...the game is over for the 7.x market.
If you take into consideration other platforms, this wasn't supposed to happen...and thats why people are mad, because they feel used, we where like bait used just to get to 100000 apps, then thrown away ... you cant blame the people for feeling this way...I think they have every rite to do so, but hey should be mad on MS, and somehow i think Nokia will be more affected ...
continuity is key in this war of ecosystems.
Frosty3k said:
I dont have a crystal ball, i have a brain, and im not sure which one of those two you're missing.
Think about it, what happened to WM6.5? how many updates did the OS get after it was ditched? not to mention that the store was closed. What do you think it will happen to WP7.x ? crystal ball anyone ?
I know how things run in the industry, I've been taking part in this for a long time, but i have never seen something fade this quickly. The lumia phones are not even a year old
who does this?? apple? i dont think so, you can still get new apps on a 3GS that is a 3 year old phone...google?? no...you can get all the stuff you like and more on a galaxy S or htc desire, 2 years old....and you will continue to get new stuff for much more.
look..its not about Apollo, its about the fact that wp8 apps cant run on wp7 hardware....this is fatal for 7.x
because of this the app well will dry out, the big players will code on wp8 and all the new stuff will be there...even if there are devs still loyal to wp7.x...the game is over for the 7.x market.
If you take into consideration other platforms, this wasn't supposed to happen...and thats why people are mad, because they feel used, we where like bait used just to get to 100000 apps, then thrown away ... you cant blame the people for feeling this way...I think they have every rite to do so, but hey should be mad on MS, and somehow i think Nokia will be more affected ...
continuity is key in this war of ecosystems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In case you missed it, the 6.5 Marketplace shut down last month. Yes, May 2012. Sorry Sparky, your gloom and doom forecasts are way out of whack. I still use WM and it works the same, if not better than, as it did 3 years ago. There is no self-destruct button on these things once a newer system comes to town. Face it, technology moves faster than your 2-year contract. Why do I even bother wasting my time? I'm out.
I own lumia 800. The OS 7.5 doesn't have the basic features like call timer in call history. Do you think we can live with that. I bought this phone trusting MS and nokia that they would bring in the proper updates. Now its all gone... I am a loyal user of windows phone. I am using windows phone since WM 2003 SE.
EDIT: WP 7 & 7.5 were only a beta test!!! They USED us
---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
OptimusLove said:
You said "4." 2 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
I will not buy a WP ever again. Only some one who doesnt know anything about the phone would buy Wp 7 now.
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
NO
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
We have spent a fortune buying lumia 800 and 900 we dont want to spend again atleast for 1.5 or 2 years
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
They would have anticipated it but not this much. Maybe MS is playing in such a way to reduce the market share of nokia to buy it for cheap price
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Word of mouth. I tell everyone not to buy a WP
rajan17_88 said:
I own lumia 800. The OS 7.5 doesn't have the basic features like call timer in call history. Do you think we can live with that. I bought this phone trusting MS and nokia that they would bring in the proper updates. Now its all gone... I am a loyal user of windows phone. I am using windows phone since WM 2003 SE.
EDIT: WP 7 & 7.5 were only a beta test!!! They USED us
---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
1. MSFT and other WP manufacturers are still selling WP7 devices. If you want a WP, are you gonna buy now? Why?
I will not buy a WP ever again. Only some one who doesnt know anything about the phone would buy Wp 7 now.
2. Is it worthy to buy WP7 at this time? Why?
NO
3. I have WP7 2nd Gen, are you going to advise me to buy WP8 when it come out in market? why?
We have spent a fortune buying lumia 800 and 900 we dont want to spend again atleast for 1.5 or 2 years
By the way, I have heard that Nokia dropped sales at its worst in 16 yrs after MSFT announced that they(MSFT) are not gonna update current WP device to WP8. Some manufacturers stopped WP7 production and will wait until WP8 came out. But some won't participate in WP8 trend.
4. What might be the reason why Nokia's sales went down in full blast? I believe some other manufacturers have the same scenario but not as same as what happened with Nokia.
They would have anticipated it but not this much. Maybe MS is playing in such a way to reduce the market share of nokia to buy it for cheap price
5. What do you think why WP sales went down?
Word of mouth. I tell everyone not to buy a WP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
1/ Android does many things. It is nearly complete feature-wise. My HTC G2 runs like a champ. Plus everybody knows about droid fragmented updates but they don't care, the thing is live, not beta.
2/ I hate iPhone because it is expensive and full of fanboism. Still it is better for 1 year old phone to miss only one or two exclusively new features than a six-month old to get only one new visual feature and miss out the functional rest. See the difference there?
v_garg said:
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
v_garg said:
What are you going to buy instead?
Android? Never guranteed to upgrade and most apps only work on top end devices
iPhone? same UI as last 4 years, and one year old iPhone being left out of big features
The grass is not greener on the other side.
On the contary Nokia have the best record of updating phones out of any manufacturers out there. Even my Nokia 5800 which is now 4 years old still gets regular updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will even consider buying blackberry or iPhone just for their customer support which is way better than MS support.
WP8 has a user base of zero right now - and is unlikely to be more than WP7 by the end of the year .. why will devs not write for wp7 as well as WP8 ? for the majority of apps the Silverlight/XNA is fine.. for the Apps for which this not true then they won't run anyhow.. not at all like WM6.5 - in that case none of the apps were x-compatible to WP7 and you had to start again.. clearly not the case here..
Oh, and what's with the "M$" nonsense - like Google & Apple don't care about $$$ ? - duh I forgot those guys channel all their profits into searching for a cure for cancer...
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't breach any contract by the carriers, hardware manufacturers or software vendors. Don't see why would Verizon, HTC/Nokia or MSFT is liable for any refund.
OptimusLove said:
Isnt it simple to call Verizon or whatever to cancel the contract and get a refund? Just asking, It just seems that after the announcement, Every single WP user went ALL RAGE!!!! But, hasnt anyone thought of contacting the carrier instead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
fatclue said:
How exactly are the carriers responsible that they should nullify the contract? It's been no secret that there was an extreme likelihood that current WP7 phones would not get the Apollo upgrade. There was nothing official. Prudence would dictate that you wait for an official statement or wait until something is actually released before committing to a 2 year contract. Some people just didn't want to wait and now feel "entitled" to something they never deserved. Gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.
OptimusLove said:
Its the user that will request to nullify so that, they(the user) can sell the phone, save the money to buy a new one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it's the user who wants to cancel. What I meant was why would the carrier agree to nullify? Buyer's remorse? Sorry, make an informed purchase like the rest of us or pay the unsubsidized price if you want to swap devices on a whim.
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Count me in!
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, I bet those petitioners dont know their carriers phone numbers.
nicksti said:
Let us start a petition to end all the petitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.
equal refidera
In the U.S., if you get a subsidized phone you could always leave before the contract expires. However, you are obligated to pay an early termination fee. Exact amount depends on how long you stayed so far. People who bought the 2nd generation Windows Phones probably started their 2 year term not too long ago and would pay a relatively high fee.
As far as the number of petitions goes, I think it shows that users are not happy seeing their relatively new device already obsolete because it cannot run any WP8 apps. It is not just the most-demanding apps or ones that demand better hardware. It is all of them.
Even if this sort of thing happens with Android or Apple, it is still a problem here because there are so many petitions/complaints. Add to this that there was a platform reset just 2 years ago with Windows Mobile and the fact that there are not too many Windows Phone users to begin with, I think this is an issue in which Microsoft has to be proactive and find a workable solution. Google and Apple can afford to piss off a few customers as their base is huge. Unfortunately, Microsoft does not have that luxury. Likewise, it does Microsoft no good if their users are complaining at the same time MS is trying to get these same people onto WP8.
Microsoft, Nokia, and whomever else should just implement some type of trade-in program where current WP7 users can get a WP8 device with a fair discount. Then if people want a WP8 device right away, they do not have to wait over a year until your contract ends. I am sure Microsoft wants tons of WP8 users immediately to attract app developers. With a trade-in, this would certainly happen. If Microsoft does nothing, people could very well stay angry and go to Android or Apple when their contract is up. Even if everybody suddenly accepts the current WP7 situation and became happy with MS, it would still take a long time (if ever) for WP8 to get reach a decent sized userbase. That is why I believe Microsoft should do something to get almost everybody using WP7 onto WP8 come this fall.
jasongw said:
Agreed. Not to sound mean or insensitive, but man am I sick and tired of all the whiny, prissy, entitled little asshats stamping around like a deranged toddler who's parent says no to the damned coco puffs.
I bought my Samsung Focus almost 2 years ago, and in that time MS has given me numerous updates for free, ALL of which have not just added features but actually IMPROVED the performance of the device and reduced the memory footprint. We already know Tango will do the same, and it's a safe bet that the new Start screen won't dramatically impact memory usage.
Contrast that with my Apple experience, where for 2 years every new version of iOS became more bloated and made my phone run slower and slower, each and EVERY time claiming the new OS version number as newer devices, yet NEVER giving me all the features of those devices, and ultimately ruining--yes, RUINING--my device to the point where it was unusable due to the slowness of its bloated, hackneyed OS.
When Microsoft finishes the run of WP7 devices, each and EVERY phone that runs the OS will continue to be usable, will continue to run better than it ever has in its lifespan, and will continue to be supported by a marketplace that currently has more than 100,000 apps.
Let me be plain: there is NOTHING HERE TO WHINE ABOUT. Grow up, accept that you're never going to own a piece of technology that will be "future proof," and move forward with your life.
There is NO SUCH THING as future proof. It's a marketing lie, and if you're dumb enough to believe it that's nobody's fault but your own.
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This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
MikeyMike01 said:
This post deserves a medal.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
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Lool.
Here's a email I sent to Microsoft's [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Hi Everyone,
I'm sending this email for two reasons. First I have been a Windows Phone user since 2004 when HP released the first pocket pc phone, HP 6315. I then purchased the HP 6515 and HP 6915. I then purchased the HTC Touch P4000 windows 5.0 and then HTC Touch diamond 6.1, HTC Touch Pro 2 windows 6.5.
And when Microsoft released Windows Phone 7, I purshased HTC Surround and then just last week I purchased for my wife the new Nokia 900 and the HTC Titan2 for my self, plus my two kids have a HTC Surround and HTC HD7S.
The reason that I mentioned all these phone is to show my dedication to the windows phone platform, and just two let you know I have been a long time Windows user as well. My first Windows desktop was Windows 1.0.
I heard this week that our second generation phones won't get the Windows Phone 8 upgrade, Considering we just bought that latest phones and they will be outdated in a couple of months, I feel for the first time ripped off considering Apples Iphone 3 will upgrade to os6.
I would thing that you would want to keep your loyal customers, and for the first time I'm debating if we don't get the update to Windows Phone 8 to change phone platforms, and this really hurts considering how much I believe in Microsoft's products. THanks again I look forward to your response.
Yours Truly,
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Here is Peter Chou for HTC reply:
Dear Mark,
Thanks for supporting HTC products for so long and so many years. Win8 is a big step so we are not able to upgrade to win 7 devices. However we will have a win7 upgrade version which will have most of the win8 experience.
Regards.
Peter
Here's Steven Rlop for Nokia reply:
Dear Mark,
There are advances in hardware in future devices that will enable new experiences that will not be available on the existing devices. And yet, you will see some of the WP8 features on WP 7 devices, and, on the Nokia devices, there is a wide array of additional capability being provided. Just as with an older Apple product that cannot do many of the new things, we will continue to enhance what can be done.
Regards,
Stephen
Here's my reply back to everyone.
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your quick reply. I'm a PLC programmer and software developer myself so I know how it works with hardware and software. That being said when Microsoft released Windows 7 they created Windows starter for pc's with minimum hardware specs,
So why doesn't Microsoft create Windows Phone 8 for the new devices and Windows Phone 8 light for the older devices. I realize that Windows Phone 7.8 is that lighter version but in the public's eyes they look at it as not getting the next version of Windows Phone 8. And last I think if Microsoft rolls out the lighter version and calls it Windows Phone 8 for first and second generation phones plus explain it has most of the functionalities as the new phones, the majority of Windows Phone users would understand. Thanks again for your response.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
Peter Chou response was.
Mark, this is a good idea. We can look into that direction. Thanks again.
The interesting thing was the fact that Microsoft has never responded to any of my emails, so again it's like Microsoft really doesn't care about their customers.
I believe that Microsoft could have created two versions of Windows Phone 8, with support for new and old devices and if the first and second devices didn't support the particular software it wouldn't be activited in the first or second phones.
Mark Connors
MC Engineers
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
NSCSA Safety Certified 2012
[email protected]
I've got an idea. Let's allow the free enterprise system to do its thing. Those of you who feel "cheated" by Microsoft can go ahead and switch to another platform of your choosing. Those who switch to Android, be careful of what you wish for..... Those who switch to iOS, same goes for you too. When the dust settles and Google releases Jelly Bean, let's see how many existing handsets get the update. When OS6 comes out, let's see how slow and buggy your precious iPhone becomes. Be proactive, do what you need to do. But for God's sake do it and STFU already!
I'm sorry for my reply; I only wanted to express my concerns for the way Microsoft is dealing with the first and second generation devices. I wasn't trying to start a battle. Again I'm sorry, and your right it's hard to type and reply on a small screen without making mistakes..
mcsc said:
Apparently you missed the hole reason for the letter and if you could read between the lines and how long I have been with microsoft you would realize that I would never change platforms. That being said a a Engineer, microsoft could have released this differently. My letter was a point out that Bill, and Steve didn't even have the decently to reply.
And last if you can't reply with dignity using a acronym STFU, then you should post.
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(1) I wasn't referring to you.
(2) You should be embarrassed to sport your credentials so ostentatiously when you can't go a full sentence with either a spelling or grammatical error. Literally, not one correct sentence in your post.
(3) You and I have different methods to show angst. You write letters, I use acronyms. My dignity is intact.
BTW, I have credentials too. I have responsibilities within the healthcare field that you can't possibly fathom. My state & federal licensing credentials are quite impressive as well. I just like to let my hair down on these boards.
Gotta agree with fatclue...
The grammar in that post would be an embarrassment if the audience was 4th graders, and it was directed to 4 senior executives. Maybe the author should pursue a credential in business writing.
Also, why would anyone expect a reply from Bill Gates? Isn't he off feeding kids with malaria or something? I would hope that the rest have better things to do.
Respectfully,
Rev. Dr. Thaddeus James O'Pootertoot III, MD, JD, CPA, Ph.D, MBCP, MCA, MCAD, MCAS, MCDBA, MCDST, MCITP, MCLC, MCM, MCNE, MCP, MCP+I, MCP+SB, MCP+SB, MCPD, MCSA, MCSD, MCSD, MCSE, MCSE+I, MCT, MCTS, MCTs, MOS, MOUS, and all-around nice guy
:good::good::good::good::good:
@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?
Your so right, I didn't look at it this way. I am quite happy with my phone and getting the windows phone 7.8 update, I just thought that microsoft should have released it as windows phone 8 for everyone, minas the enhancements that the first and second generation devices didn't support.
Forget about the 3GS, how old is it, really?
iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S, one year apart. The only thing the 4 didn't receive when the 4S came out was Siri, one exclusive feature for new model. If you want to look at the 3GS, it lacked facetime, one feature announced with the iPhone 4.
Here MS and Nokia have, what? Soon to be 6 months old L900 before a major update. What'll it receive? only one new visual feature while the functional rest is left out vs. "hey we are saving one new feature for our new model." Don't quote me where I got WP 7.8 only has the startscreen, if you want to believe WP and Nokia it's on you, not me, I'm done believing. What's more? the 3GS, while being 3 years old (released June 2009), is not considered a beta device and it served well, it still retains some value. Lumia 900? From $99 to free in 2 months (I don't count the $100 credits post launch), much like a feature phone. Plus, the thing is hyped this and that despite the OS isn't fully matured at this point of the competition, while iOS and Android can out-function WP any way. If not for loyalty and hope, who have been buying WP up until 6/20? After this treatment, I know many will be very skeptical about buying WP8. I myself will wait until WP8 truly establishes itself as a complete OS before buying. Can you confidently recommend WP? I know I no longer can't.
And before someone tells me to go buy an iOS or Android, think again. Is there anyone to tell people to "go buy a WP"? MS and Nokia, i am sure, don't want their consumer base to tell others to buy products from their primary competitors. iOS and Android don't care, because no one says go buy a WP. People would just be like, "what's that?," anyway. If WP users think the other consumers are missing out goodies in WP, then MS and Nokia are missing out their market share.
jasongw said:
@mcsc: I see your mistake: you think that because the iPhone 3GS will receive "iOS6" that means it'll be receiving the same OS as the later iPhones. I get the mistake--I made it myself, once.
But the fact is this: iPhone 3GS will NOT be receiving the same OS as later models. It'll show the same VERSION number--merely a string of text--but in no sense can it be called "the same OS." Instead, it contains a subset of what the newer version of the OS (which, let's face it, is itself a minor iteration of a stale OS) will have on newer devices, and if you want to get the full set of features, you WILL have to buy the iPhone 5, make no mistake. Even 4S will lack some of the features that iOS 6 will deliver to iPhone 5.
Essentially, Microsoft and Apple do the same thing, but with a clear distinction: Apple tells a lie-"look! We're giving you the latest OS!", and Microsoft tells the truth--"Sorry, your device won't support the new OS, but we'll make sure you get a few of its features."
The question is: do you prefer a pretty lie or a less pretty truth?
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