I am seeing all of these crazy quad core android leaks now and windows phone will get even more behind in specs. Look i know that most apps wont even utilize the quad core, there are barely any apps that do dual core but Apollo better be groundbreaking and allow quad core cause that is where MS needs to compete. At this rate i think the next iPhone too will be outdated on release.
wp7 doesn't need quad core, in fact, 99% of the smartphone users don't even need a dual core.
you'll see these quad core phones with a huge price tag, low battery life and performing the same as single/dual core devices.
it's completely unnecessary. it's not like you're running lightroom and premiere on your phone.
svtfmook said:
wp7 doesn't need quad core, in fact, 99% of the smartphone users don't even need a dual core.
you'll see these quad core phones with a huge price tag, low battery life and performing the same as single/dual core devices.
it's completely unnecessary. it's not like you're running lightroom and premiere on your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely unnecessary? Definitely, wanted by many? Hell yes
svtfmook said:
wp7 doesn't need quad core, in fact, 99% of the smartphone users don't even need a dual core.
you'll see these quad core phones with a huge price tag, low battery life and performing the same as single/dual core devices.
it's completely unnecessary. it's not like you're running lightroom and premiere on your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My concern is with heat dissipation with all that processor power. In addition to my DVP, I have a MyTouch4G Slide - 1.2 ghz dual core - and it can get hot when you are using it. I am curious to see what the longevity of these 1st gen dual cores are based on my experience with the heat. My DVP seldom gets hot, neither did my nexus one for that matter. Just a thought...........
smoked by a windows phone
Haven't you seen any of the Smoked By Windows Phone challenges? A Windows phone is faster than any of the android or iphones out there with dual core processors. IMO thats saying something.
I'm kinda fed up by these donkheads using Android who talks about nothing but specs. You can put WHATEVER you want in that ****ing OS and it will still not run smooth because IT IS NOT OPTIMIZED FOR ****.
aren't these new procs supposed to be more efficient and cooler than the previous batch?
Its stupid that android is desperately trying to become more and more like a desktop PC.
michael_chea7 said:
Haven't you seen any of the Smoked By Windows Phone challenges? A Windows phone is faster than any of the android or iphones out there with dual core processors. IMO thats saying something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stitch a panorama? Smoked.
Shoot 1080? Ditto.
Higher CPU needs are coming ...
emjlr3 said:
aren't these new procs supposed to be more efficient and cooler than the previous batch?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Generally, yes.
lovenokia said:
I am seeing all of these crazy quad core android leaks now and windows phone will get even more behind in specs. Look i know that most apps wont even utilize the quad core, there are barely any apps that do dual core but Apollo better be groundbreaking and allow quad core cause that is where MS needs to compete. At this rate i think the next iPhone too will be outdated on release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quad cores are nice and stuff but they suck up a lot of battery power add that to the already 4G sucking up most of it and you get a phone that you have to charge every few hours a day. It's like a laptop with a cell phone battery.
ohgood said:
Stitch a panorama? Smoked.
Shoot 1080? Ditto.
Higher CPU needs are coming ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gimmick gimmick gimmick
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Its stupid that android is desperately trying to become more and more like a desktop PC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This comment is ridiculous when you remember windows phone 8 is a desktop OS on a phone. well at least the kernel.
Quad cores however, are not needed on a phone at this point of time. Tablets yes, phones no. But to all that worry, Apollo is coming out this year
jz9833 said:
This comment is ridiculous when you remember windows phone 8 is a desktop OS on a phone. well at least the kernel.
Quad cores however, are not needed on a phone at this point of time. Tablets yes, phones no. But to all that worry, Apollo is coming out this year
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well u know what I mean, I meant it by the hardware standpoint.
I do think that Windows Phone needs to enter the dual core market for the gaming segment. Quad core is not necessary now and I suspect the Android market will not be dominated by quad cores in 2012.
But we do have to face facts, if (and I am not saying this is indeed a fact) the consumer wants a dual core then sales will not be where you want them to be if you are pushing out single cores. And so on. Imagine an OEM only making 3.2MP point and shoot cameras because that is enough to print on 8.5x11.
nicksti said:
I do think that Windows Phone needs to enter the dual core market for the gaming segment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's exactly what I was going to say.... Xbox live titles are pretty good and they are getting better but, still not even close to some RPGs or Rage on the iphone or Android for graphics detail, quality and game play.
Xbox live is a brand that is known for great games, As a gamer, I am disapointed in the offerings given on my WP7 device. They are good but, not great.
Quad cores are just too much (battery and heat are the big ones), crap, to do better games, just give a better GPU, no quad core or even dual core is needed in most cases.
DavidinCT said:
It's exactly what I was going to say.... Xbox live titles are pretty good and they are getting better but, still not even close to some RPGs or Rage on the iphone or Android for graphics detail, quality and game play.
Xbox live is a brand that is known for great games, As a gamer, I am disapointed in the offerings given on my WP7 device. They are good but, not great.
Quad cores are just too much (battery and heat are the big ones), crap, to do better games, just give a better GPU, no quad core or even dual core is needed in most cases.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
absolutely agree, this is exactly why my device thats near on 2.5 YEARS old still kicks the balls off devices made yesterday
However, graphically intensive tasks are hampered by its aging Adreno 200 GPU
I believe the younger brother of my phone the HD7 had the Adreno 205 which gave it a significant bump, personally, i want the S3 Snapdragons, not for the multiple cores but the new Adreno 220/225.
The old S1 processor in my thing is still standing true, shoving 3 or even another 1 core in it is going to make the square route of bugger all difference in my every day needs.
The only reason for WP7 to have more CPU power is for gaming (and for the spec sheets of course). I am sure Apollo will bring multi-core support which will enable even better games. As it goes, some of the xbox live titles are fairly impressive, but there are games on other platforms which are significantly better due to the power available.
The only thing I have seen mentioned in this thread that is worth having more power for other than games, is 1080p video recording. It definitely does make a difference - I have a camera that does 1080p and it is very very nice. Cant wait for that, although I have a sneaky feeling that the second gen devices could do it if the software allowed it - correct me if I am wrong.
Yes, don't change Windows Phone! Keep it as it has always been. The first Gen devices from two years ago are sufficient, so there is no need for improvement! You see how great they sell!
Maybe quad core is a bit much on a phone (whereas I could imagine having one in my tablet), but if it improves multitasking, saves battery at the same time and makes speedier cameras, faster web browsing and better games possible- then fine, give the people the chance to buy these devices. Not everyone may need them (they buy the middle class models with the last gen hardware) but there definitely is a market.
And yes, imo Android devices are way faster than WP7 devices, equally smooth and offer a superior interface which looks better and offers far more options - a matter of taste!
Arjoma said:
... You see how great they sell! ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You ignore the fact that most sales people completely ignore selling WP7 over the easy sell of Android and iOS.
And yes, imo Android devices are way faster than WP7 devices, equally smooth and offer a superior interface which looks better and offers far more options - a matter of taste!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry... seen way too many laggy Android ROMs and devices to fully believe this statement. Whereas, every WP7 device has been consistently smooth. Superior interface is purely subjective.
Related
WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.
The demo shown was using non-final build of the OS.
Something like BETA version, not yet final version.
There you would expect: bugs, glitch, errors, etc.
But still, it is quite impressive.
We can only judge the "perfectness" of the OS later when it has been "OFFICIALLY" released.
chiks19018 said:
WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's about more than just the basic UI. Lots of background stuff going on. All those live tiles need CPU power to populate. The Zune HD with a similar UI is only 600mhz. Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.
who's to say it needs all 1GHz? i think they're doing a great thing by setting that as minimum. our devices would be up to date much longer or at least it will feel that way. It's a good sign for those who don't like upgrading every year, no?
Besides, the Nexus One is 1ghz.... Supersonic will probably be 1ghz..... Everything will be 1ghz by the time wp7 comes out, if not more.
RustyGrom said:
Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said. It's set because it's very doable.. at the end of this year, which manufacturer would expect a new device to be competitive using an old processor? Setting a bare minimum as the minimum would mean that you have 7 Series phones which perform much crappier than others.. a situation they want to avoid.
Plus it's mobile XBox.
My prediction:
Touch HD3
Qualcomm Dual Core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon processor
4.3" OLED Capacitive screen WVGA 800x480
No hardware keyboard
5 MP Camera with auto-focus and flash
aGPS
FM Radio
Windows Phone 7 Series
...
gogol said:
My prediction:
Touch HD3
Qualcomm Dual Core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon processor
4.3" OLED Capacitive screen WVGA 800x480
No hardware keyboard
5 MP Camera with auto-focus and flash
aGPS
FM Radio
Windows Phone 7 Series
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the new qualcomm 1.5 ghz chip is not meant for mobile devices till now it is used for mini notebooks the one which will be avaliable for devices is the 1.3 ghz version same specifications as the 1ghz processor but with 45 nm technology( uses less power ) same graphics performance but with 300 mhz over clock speed nearly same performance but less power consumption
Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
An ARMv7 processor is required. iPhone/Pre/Droid all have ARMv7 processors.
freyberry said:
Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think 1ghz is enough for a mobile os (the win xp runs on 500mhz processor and on 128 of ram )
It's not all about the clock rate. An ARMv7 processor at 500MHz is about twice as fast as an ARMv6 processor at the same clock speed.
(that's why the iPhone 3GS is so much faster than the iPhone 3G, despite only having 200Mhz more)
Windows XP doesn't run on ARM processors at all.
freyberry said:
Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
An ARMv7 processor is required. iPhone/Pre/Droid all have ARMv7 processors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft said that Qualcomm was the only silicon provider right now.
Qualcomm said they are pleased that their Snapdragon CPU has been chosen for WP7.
Snapdragon runs at 1ghz+.
Therefore, in effect, the minimum CPU is 1ghz.
chiks19018 said:
WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I'm sure they could, but Microsoft wants there to be very high minimum specs that developers can expect so that all apps can take advantage of the hardware to its full extent. An example would be the way WinMo apps are now. Most 3D apps aren't very good because the minimum of what developers can expect in a device isn't very high; thus, they have have to make it use as little resources as possible.
Based on what I'm hearing most current 6.X phones will be unsupported unless they pack a Dragoon. I hope the scorpion CPU is used in a win7 phone.
RustyGrom said:
It's about more than just the basic UI. Lots of background stuff going on. All those live tiles need CPU power to populate. The Zune HD with a similar UI is only 600mhz. Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I would agree this is their plan as well. Personally, I would like to have phone stay pretty current within the 2 year contract I have to sign to get one at a fair price....
Insurance is mandatory on this one...
Ignore this post
RustyGrom said:
Microsoft said that Qualcomm was the only silicon provider right now.
Qualcomm said they are pleased that their Snapdragon CPU has been chosen for WP7.
Snapdragon runs at 1ghz+.
Therefore, in effect, the minimum CPU is 1ghz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Snapdragon can run at lower clock rates as well (e.g. 768Mhz in the Acer Liquid).
They also have slower processors besides Snapdragon (though I don't know whether the 7227 is ARMv7, I don't care about low end devices ).
freyberry said:
Snapdragon can run at lower clock rates as well (e.g. 768Mhz in the Acer Liquid).
They also have slower processors besides Snapdragon (though I don't know whether the 7227 is ARMv7, I don't care about low end devices ).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any CPU can be underclocked. The "normal" speed for Snapdragons is 1ghz.
Qualcomm specifically mentioned that the Snapdragon had been chosen for WP7.
How about the famous HTC graphic acceleration driver?
I hope this time there will be no more missing graphics driver for WP7!
gogol said:
How about the famous HTC graphic acceleration driver?
I hope this time there will be no more missing graphics driver for WP7!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft said they're providing the drivers for these phones, I think
EDIT: Never mind.
Does the new hardware call for a graphics processor?
I know that Steve Jobs never sells a piece of hardware without a dedicated graphics processor, such as in the iPhone (PowerVR MBX-Lite graphics processor), or the Macbook (NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT).
In windows machines, it is always an after-thought.
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
It just needs to be utilized with good drivers.
Shasarak said:
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
chiks19018 said:
so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like everything else, we'll have to wait for MIX. But with their massive push into gaming and focus on XNA, I have no doubt that the graphics capability will be at least as good as if not light years ahead of iPhone.
RustyGrom said:
Like everything else, we'll have to wait for MIX. But with their massive push into gaming and focus on XNA, I have no doubt that the graphics capability will be at least as good as if not light years ahead of iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure do hope. But history says otherwise. MS never pushed for a graphics card with any of it's products as a "required" item. If the same happens here and Apple develops a new iphone 4gs with an even more powerful processor and as usual combine a dedicated graphics processor, then WP7 will be in the same boat as now.
chiks19018 said:
I sure do hope. But history says otherwise. MS never pushed for a graphics card with any of it's products as a "required" item. If the same happens here and Apple develops a new iphone 4gs with an even more powerful processor and as usual combine a dedicated graphics processor, then WP7 will be in the same boat as now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What part of WP7 is like WM6? It's entirely different. Microsoft had practically no hardware requirements before, now they're being super strict. Gaming is a huge portion of their focus. We should know more next week at GDC. Besides, Snapdragon includes full 3d acceleration. There's no need for a discrete graphics chip as far as I'm aware.
Shasarak said:
Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
chiks19018 said:
so no dedicated graphics processor?
Looks like iphone will still rule.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
Shasarak said:
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
Silverdragondk said:
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well MS clearly stated that qualcomm is first chip supplier for Windows Phones. Probably in the future they will allow tegra, omap and probably samsung chips too.
For now we are stuck with snapdragon which isn't that bad IMO.
Silverdragondk said:
Out of curiosity - What's stopping WP7s manufacturers from using Tegra chips? I know Microsoft is working closely with Qualcomm, but does that automatically disqualify Nvidia as a supplier?
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Drivers. MS isn't giving the OEMs as much control over the lower level OS and is developing all of the drivers themselves. No more will we have the problem of HTC deciding that 3d drivers aren't needed.
Wishmaster89 said:
And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will be sick if they annouce the msm8xxx being required and that's why HD2 isn't supported. I'd take that trade off.
Wishmaster89 said:
And thats for qsd8250.
Newer generation of snapdragon(msm8xxx and dual core QSD8672) has 4x greater performance than the snapdragon1. Don't know how's msm7x30 graphics performance. Besides we don't know which snapdragon chip will be used in windows phones.
It could either be qsd8650a which is 30% faster than the one used in HD2 or it could be the new msm7x30 or it could even be the high end msm8xxx which supports 1,3Ghz CPU, 1080p video and 4x faster GPU - hopefully it won't be qsd8250 which is manufactured at 65nm but something newer at 45nm. Power efficiency is very important, besides those newer chips just like tegra should be able to shutdown unused parts to minimize power consumption.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all Snapdragon variants are actually intended to be used in phones. Most of the more powerful ones will only ever end up in netbooks and devices like that.
Wishmaster89 said:
Well MS clearly stated that qualcomm is first chip supplier for Windows Phones. Probably in the future they will allow tegra, omap and probably samsung chips too.
For now we are stuck with snapdragon which isn't that bad IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
Shasarak said:
The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's always sounded to me like they just picked one to launch with and will support others going forward. Writing drivers and testing other platforms at this point doesn't really give a good bang for the buck.
We should know on the 10th (the first GDC windows phone sessions). I would think the graphics capability would be something they would share there. But then again, they've shown an astounding ability to just say "wait for MIX" so far so they very well could keep that up.
Developing Games for Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Michael Klucher
Time: 1:15-2:15pm
The future of Windows Phone has never looked better. With the release of Windows Phone 7 Series, game developers will be able to create amazing content rapidly. This talk outlines the basic framework for games, presents Windows Phone 7 Series device characteristics, and provides and overview of game development on the phone.
High Performance 3D Games on Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Tomas Vykruta & Shawn Hargreaves
Time: 2:30-3:30pm
Windows Phone 7 Series is a highly capable platform for game development. This talk covers 3D game development on Windows Phone 7 Series with an emphasis on the unique characteristics of the platform. The talk also focuses on optimizing high-performance games for the platform, to help developers squeeze out every last drop of performance.
Development and Debugging Tools for Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Cullen Waters
Time: 3:45pm-4:45pm
This talk discusses the basic tools available to game developers on Windows Phone 7 Series, including debugging, emulation, and performance tools. The talk places special emphasis on best practices for performance and profiling tools that can be used to optimize games for Windows Phone 7 Series.
Bringing the Best of Xbox LIVE to Windows Phone 7 Series
Speaker: Adam Schaeffer
Time: 5:00-6:00pm
The Xbox LIVE service is going mobile! With Windows Phone 7 Series, core features such as Achievements, Leaderboards, and game invites will be available to games on Windows Phone 7 Series devices. This talk covers the basics of the services available and how they can be used to enable core Xbox LIVE functionality in games. In addition, this talk will present best practices for connecting Windows Phone 7 Series games to back-end servers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I imagine that they want WP7 to be as smooth and hitch-free as possible to start out with. That means not allowing for any unknown variables such as different hardware, drivers, software.
It's the same for Iphone or any of the console game machines. It's one piece of hardware that is always the same making it easier to plan things for and develop things for. Which ends up meaning a higher perception of quality from the consumers due to lack of glitches and crashes.
Hence Apple's commercials saying how often PCs crash and stuff. They crash because PCs have way more variables as far as hardware and drivers than Macs have making many more incompatibilities.
Microsoft will probably allow other hardware once WP7 has a good name going in the consumers eyes.
Shasarak said:
Not all Snapdragon variants are actually intended to be used in phones. Most of the more powerful ones will only ever end up in netbooks and devices like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right. QSD8672 is targeted at smartbooks but msm8xxx is designed to power both smarphones and smartbooks. Besides OMAP4 and tegra2 are powerful but still we can expect smartphones based on those platforms next year.
The decision to exclude Samsung processors surprised me a bit. Samsung's "Hummingbird" CPU is easily the equal of the current generation Snapdragon, and Samsung has been a major supporter of Windows Mobile in the past. I guess MS wanted to limit itself to writing drivers for just one platform - allowing Samsung or OMAP processors would mean also allowing other GPUs, other GPS and Bluetooth hardware, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think so too. More hardware platforms mean more work to do. So I think that support for other hardware platforms will come after they'll finish V1 of WP7 - this way they will just have to port complete full OS from snapdragon to other platform.
Shasarak said:
What?! No, I said Snapdragon includes a perfectly reasonable graphics chip. How on Earth did you interpret that as meaning the exact opposite of what I said???
Snapdragon is not just a CPU. Snapdragon is a chipset, an entire mobile phone platform that consists of several separate chips. One of them is the CPU. Another of them is a graphics chip (or, if you prefer to phrase it that way, a "dedicated graphics processor") made by ATI/AMD. Honestly, have you never seen the Electopia demo running on a Snapdragon phone? The graphics are really quite impressive.
Yes, the Snapdragon GPU is somewhat less powerful than the one in the iPhone 3GS, but it's not an order of magnitude difference, and the faster CPU in Snapdragon (coupled with improved NEON instructions) somewhat compensates. Certainly the Snapdragon GPU is way more powerful than the one included with MSM72xx, and even that can run Xtrakt quite happily; it's miles ahead of the one in the iPhone 3G, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my bad. I thought snapdragon is a processor.
Hi,
Not to long ago samsung released their new dual core processor "Orion" with has some amazing specs. They says it will be up for mass production in frist half of 2011.
Both qualcomm and lg has also new smartphone processors coming next year.
Will future windows phone 7 devices feature this? The snapdragon in the current devices is kinda outdated...
My ultimate windows phone 7 phone would feature:
512 meg ram or more
at least 1GHz Orion or similar dual core processor
800 x 480 or greater super-amoled multitouch screen
4" screen
Sleak design in aluminium
Yeah.
WP7 will get put onto all the new software as its needs to compete with Android and the iPhone.
Although the 1GHz snapdragon is a little outdated now i think some people don't realise that it is still a beast of a processor, and WP7 has been specifically designed to run perfectly on it as it was the minimum requirement for Hardware Manufacturers don't forget.
Having Qualcomms "Still in Development" 1.5 Dual Core inside a device would be fantastic, but it's not going to happen anytime soon (2012 at the earliest) and for the time being that doesn't bother me the slightest as my HD7 runs smooth as anything with what it's got. I doubt a dual-core processor would increase the usuability of any of the WP7 Phones, the only thing it would do is reduce loading times of App's/Games/etc, which is currently only seconds anyway.
Agreed, I believe in Q2 2011, the processors will finally be available for manufactures
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Audio said:
Although the 1GHz snapdragon is a little outdated now i think some people don't realise that it is still a beast of a processor, and WP7 has been specifically designed to run perfectly on it as it was the minimum requirement for Hardware Manufacturers don't forget.
Having Qualcomms "Still in Development" 1.5 Dual Core inside a device would be fantastic, but it's not going to happen anytime soon (2012 at the earliest) and for the time being that doesn't bother me the slightest as my HD7 runs smooth as anything with what it's got. I doubt a dual-core processor would increase the usuability of any of the WP7 Phones, the only thing it would do is reduce loading times of App's/Games/etc, which is currently only seconds anyway.
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True but what about Samsungs Orion then?
The other reason why im waiting for a New wp7 device is the lack of exchangeable storage on all devices...
my only concern is about the compatibility of the Phones with LTE technology as Verizon's LTE network will be up in my area by the end of the year.
i'm waiting 1G ram with using nvidia Tegra 2 cpu + 5-7 point mutil touch
CE7 supports multi-core ARM CPUs. There are plans to move WP7 to CE7 (it's currently on a CE6/7 variant) later on. That should happen before dual core chips are a reality so there's no reason Microsoft won't move to it. I would guess that would come with a major software and hardware spec update, maybe WP8. There's no point in tossing the current WP7 on much more powerful hardware because the software won't take advantage of it. Games and apps will still be targeted at the 1ghz SnapDragon so basically things will just load faster.
People really need to get out of this hardware spec mentality. It doesn't matter if the phone had a 100mhz CPU if it performs well. I know that's hard if you're a techy but you have to focus on the end result, not the pieces that make it happen.
hkcyber said:
i'm waiting 1G ram with using nvidia Tegra 2 cpu + 5-7 point mutil touch
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Is this for real? Why would you need 5-7 touch points? Can you even fit 7 fingers on a 4in screen?
I sure as hell hope that Microsoft won't allow this on Pad devices.
Sure the idea with Pad devices might be good, but not with an OS built for a 4" display.
Sir. Haxalot said:
I sure as hell hope that Microsoft won't allow this on Pad devices.
Sure the idea with Pad devices might be good, but not with an OS built for a 4" display.
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yeah, if MS comes out with a pad, I hope they alter the OS or make a new one optimized for a pad sized screen.
I've seen this argument now 100 times over that you should not consider WP7 or have anything to do with WP7 due entirely to the fact that the hardware is 'last-gen.' Well, I'm standing in the store with my DVP along-side an Atrix and I've been doing some similar and even the same apps and games between the two and the DVP seems to be doing much, much, better. Of course the UI on the DVP is 1000 times smoother regardless of hardware but that's a given due to the lack of a hardware accelerated UI on android. The iphone is smoother in some of the apps due to microsoft's stupid 30 fps... thing but the OS on the DVP is even smoother than the iphone. I have to give the iphone credit though due to it's underclocked nature it's barely beaten by WP7 in terms of UI and smokes WP7 in terms of apps. If the UI wasn't so ugly and the hardware was a little less limited it would be the only valid choice in my opinion. So yeah, just the fact that there are dual-core processors on some android devices doesn't mean anything if it can't properly utilize them. I guess that was the whole point I was trying to make.
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
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You mad bro?
If anything, you should've talked about the fact that it has nothing to do with dual-cores in general but due to the fact that the Atrix is a mass of poor coding.
You could've also stated that dual cores generally make the phone use less power and be more efficient leading to better battery life.
Instead, I have to ask, what the hell can a RAZR do faster?
vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
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Hardware acceleration is there, however the UI is not GPU accelerated which is why android is generally laggy. I've done my research. I'm aware of what dual-cores do but it's supposed to make it faster as a big part and hey... it's not much faster due to the UI itself. I can't even imagine how powerful an iDevice or a WP7 device would be with that under the hood but the only thing that's been selling android for awhile is that their hardware is bigger and badder.
No, I was attempting a joke. Failed huh?
I could've mentioned a lot of stuff.
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
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Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.
z33dev33l said:
Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.
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Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.
orangekid said:
Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.
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Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.
z33dev33l said:
Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.
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matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.
orangekid said:
matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.
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To be perfectly honest I haven't been particularly impressed with HTC's WP7 devices... they're slow compared to the other OEMs and choppy... I hate using the HD7 after using the DVP for a few hours. Internally they're pretty much the same and I don't know what the difference is but HTC's general lack of quality shows.
WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.
ErikWithNoC said:
WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.
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Certainly not in the iphone ports but in a number of the apps built exclusively for WP7it's apparent. I just wish they'd stop being a "We have that too" group instead of innovating.
orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
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way to compare last year's phones to those coming out later this year (rumor is a fall release).
hell, the DS7 has a dualcore processor, does that make it a top tablet?
^ for the price it does. Mine is super fast and smooth.
Well, there aren't many tablets out right now, but I wouldn't say it's tops.
It has a low res screen which really helps it perform better, compared to other tablets and the only other tablet that was out at the time (Galaxy Tab, I'm speaking Google-endorsed tablets) had phone specs with a large screen...
WP7 would have benefitted from using a better SoC at launch because phones are sold mostly on 2 year contracts and, well, a year after release there will be tons of polished Dual Core phones. Also, since all WP7 devices are supposed to get updates future proofing them at least somewhat would have been good for the platform as a whole, and customers obviously.
It will be interesting to see how many updates these launch phones recieve after Mango, IMO.
I think dual core is not a big deal. A well managed single core processor is more than enough for a phone... unless you want to run two processor intensive apps. But if you think about it, do you ever run such apps simultaneously? All modern phone OS put an app in hibernation when you switch to some other processor intensive app.
There have been a few different points or comparisons made in this thread. Here are my 2 cents on it.
iPad2 performs so much better than iPad... the majority of the improvement comes from a very good GPU. Apple is very good at using the GPU and thus the difference is obvious. Nevertheless, tablets are very likely to be used to do processor intensive tasks simultaneously. Thus dual core can be utilized to its potential.
The barrage of android phones with dual core.... google's flagship device, Nexus S is single core. Google is going to stay with it for some time. I have been using Nexus One for some time now and I have not come across any instance where I was bogged down because I was running too many simultaneous apps. Sometimes a processor intensive app alone can slow me down, but that is due to android not being able to use my GPU to its full extent.
Thus, I agree with OP. The experience is what matters. Phone is not a PC where comparison can be made by merely comparing the hardware specifications. I think chassis 1 of Windows Phone 7 will get updates for at least 2 more years. Nevertheless, we should be seeing dual core windows phone 7 in early 2012.
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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I'm quite aware of this however speed is not entirely out of the equation. It's not like it's doing any huge favors still as smartphone batteries barely sustain the smartphone and it will likely be that way til we get those new solar-recharging things on the screen.
ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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I agree with you. Dual core brings better power management. I did not sleep through the PC evolution. However, the discussion in these thread repeatedly pointed out advantage of speed. I begged to differ and laid out my arguments.
Nevertheless, I reiterate that unless you have two processor intensive activities running in parallel, you will not see any advantage (including power consumption) of multiple cores. My point is that you hardly do that on a phone.
PS: "apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt" has nothing to do with multiple cores. It's sand-boxing. Only Unix based systems can do that effectively. Windows has been getting better but the kernel does not support all the features.
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...e-cpu-and-gpu-chipsets-coming-later-this-year
Does wp7 really want to be only single-core really old hardware? This new hardware in the end 2011 with Android even if unoptimised will kick ass to wp7 in current specs chassis even with Mango enhacments... MS needs to work harder...
Much better games performance, faster loading apps... etc...
75% lower power... I think MS needs to step back on power restrictions... this chips will be 75% less power... they are restricting too much the OS against the Android when the new chips will have a much better battery and performance rate than the actual ones...
Well, the benefit of multiple cores isn't as obvious as one may think because software has to be written in a special way in order to benefit from more than one core. So basically buying a phone with two cores running current versions of Android or WP7 or whatever is most probably just a waste.
That being said, newer processors are built using 45nm technology and consume less power, so using those more modern cores would probably be more noticeable.
And of course it's all going the way of megapixels. Since most people will automatically assume that if you have twice as many cores the thing will run twice as fast, you sort of must use those multiple cores, no matter if it benefits the end user or not.
So yeah, I guess MS have to update hardware support...
actually 28nm...
and this new hardware, have 2.5Ghz... even if they are multi-core they should go faster then current 1ghz... with less power... and games would benefit a whole lot...
besides even if current software isn't optimized, as soon as this harware would be released people would start to optimize it. Android already start it. Does MS wants to be on the back of mobile competion, again?
Whether games will be rewritten or not depends on how widespread those multicore devices will be and when. So far games aren't exactly utilizing modern hardware - how many of them take advantage of Samsung's awesome GPUs built into Galaxy S phones? When 90% of devices in the market don't have this type of tech, what's the point of rewriting everything just to accomodate for the 10%?
Now, I'm not saying that multiple cores aren't awesome, I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely that you'll see real benefit from them this year.
tfouto said:
actually 28nm...
and this new hardware, have 2.5Ghz... even if they are multi-core they should go faster then current 1ghz... with less power... and games would benefit a whole lot...
besides even if current software isn't optimized, as soon as this harware would be released people would start to optimize it. Android already start it. Does MS wants to be on the back of mobile competion, again?
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First: no flame intended.
You're making a lot of assumptions. Faster, less power. Don't look into the neighbor's garden to fix your own garden. Think what is necessary for WP7 to advance and be better.
Then, Android is so fragmented and has sooooo many models I wouldn't know where to start if I would want to try one. There is no real stability in term of standards. Every 6 months there's a better phone (like a new generation) and you end up with an older model after that period. So basically the cycle is much shorter than on every other platform. Even iPhone has a 1 year cycle. And I don't even want to think about privacy issues there, you basically upload all your data and behavior somewhere else and agree it can be used by others...
But that is not the real issue. People expect a platform to mature over night. It won't happen, we all need to be a bit patient. If you're looking for future features now, then you've already made a mistake, regardless of what platform you're on.
People should understand what they want from a phone first. We all know it's easier to spot problems with the things you're familiar with and you see the others as better. But once you try the others you realize it's the same story again, it looked better before when you didn't know it.
To conclude: my WP7 phone does exactly what's supposed to do, with the current hardware specs. Can it do more? Sure, but we have to be a bit patient. Then, if it doesn't deliver, try something else. Until then, I don't want to be a technology nomad, I'll always be unhappy as in a few months there will always be a better phone. I'd rather stick with something until it matures a bit and enjoy the ride/phone.
You do realise that the Chasis is minimum specs right? Manufaturers can use what they want as long as it's above those specs.
^ not for chips.
brummiesteven said:
You do realise that the Chasis is minimum specs right? Manufaturers can use what they want as long as it's above those specs.
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not really... you are wrong... they can for components... camera, etc... not chips...
tfouto said:
not really... you are wrong... they can for components... camera, etc... not chips...
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Fair enough, my bad.
The good thing about how MS is handling hardware is also the bad thing. They are making the drivers so we don't have to worry about putting up with crappy drivers from OEM's like HTC. The bad thing is in order to see newer hardware, MS has to release an update for said hardware's drivers. Mango will include drivers for a newer chipset, just not this Quad Core. Than again, the Quad isn't due out till the end of 2012, so why add support now or even write drivers for unfinished hardware.
I dont see the need for multiple cores, am i the only person?
moneysaver05 said:
I dont see the need for multiple cores, am i the only person?
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+1
I want to use my phone primary as a "information device", I use it to check my mails, send messages, update facebook, look things up on Wikipedia, search translations and browse the web. In order to do these things my old HTC Touch with 200 MHz was enough (it was slow but it has done the job well :-D ). But new devices like the WP7s add further possibilities. Entertaining has become more important. Entertaining has becom more important. But in order to use the handset as media player i don't think a Dual-Core Processor is necessary. And honestly, if I want to play a game with high graphics, i use my PC.
I don't want to complain but i totally agree with you moneysaver... Using Dual-Core processors would on one hand increase the gaming experience but on the other increase the price and drain more power. In my opinion "better" processor would bring to many downsides ATM. Another thing is, that you can outsource all heavy calculations to the cloud...
In short: If someone would offer me a phone with a efficient Dual-Core Processor, I would't say no. But i wouldn't say a Dual-Core Processor is a must-have...
Regards
Chris
Most important is low power with fast processor.
Sent from my 7 Trophy using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
well low power it fast processor is exactly what this new chips are...
twitter takes 7 seconds to fully open... with a 2.5ghz would take 3 seconds and with a dual core much less... and which less consuptiom i cant see what how bad could it be...
ov2rey said:
Most important is low power with fast processor.
Sent from my 7 Trophy using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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The newer chips consumes less power
tfouto said:
well low power it fast processor is exactly what this new chips are...
twitter takes 7 seconds to fully open... with a 2.5ghz would take 3 seconds and with a dual core much less... and which less consuptiom i cant see what how bad could it be...
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I 'd rather have a fully used single core processor with optimized drivers from Microsoft than a 5GHz quad core with no software to use it. Next update will bring lower memory consumption and other optimizations that will be enough to coast us to 2012 were another update will (probably ? ) be released to support the upgraded chassis specs (dual cores maybe?)
iPhones have shown that optimized software makes up for less powered hardware (my wife's 3Gs is a living proof of that)
Android: Non-optmized OS.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/28/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-review/
- Class-leading speed and responsiveness
i sincerely dont believe that wp7 Mango optimized with current Snapdragon can compete with this speed... and the later HTC EVO 3D... and of course
battery life...