Develop Bugs

[LEAK/INFO] Found something interesting about HTC HD7 on on the HTC RMA

Commercial name: HTC Trophy (HTC 7)
Codename: Spark
Specifications:
WVGA screen
8-Megapixel camera
1GHz Snapdragon processor (QSD8250)
3G Network: HSDPA 900 / 2100
Hope it's interesting
Regards,
B

I have to confess, unless you're talking about the 8 MP camera, I don't see anything that was unknown from earlier leaks. Is that what you're referring to, or am I missing something obvious?
Also, I'd recommend taking down the second image. The name of the user logged in isn't blocked in that screenshot.
Cheers,
--VelJharig

Any more part numbers/models listed? Anything showing US models?

VelJharig said:
I have to confess, unless you're talking about the 8 MP camera, I don't see anything that was unknown from earlier leaks. Is that what you're referring to, or am I missing something obvious?
Also, I'd recommend taking down the second image. The name of the user logged in isn't blocked in that screenshot.
Cheers,
--VelJharig
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the head up

RustyGrom said:
Any more part numbers/models listed? Anything showing US models?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only have access to the European portal atm.

Can't believe HTC uses the Q8250 which is now almost 100% confirmed.
Byebye HTC, never liked your phones anyway, they are crappy as phones. Pooooooooooor speakers, pooooooooor batterylife, poooooooooooooooor cameras, pooooooooooor reception.
All above is right compared to other brands, the 4 most important things in a phone aswell, bad bad.
This certainly doesn't look like they are shaping up
Edit: Either way, good find OP

I, for one, don't care what chip is in my phone as long as the outcome is good. From everything we've seen, the performance, including 3D Games, is pretty damn good.

RustyGrom said:
I, for one, don't care what chip is in my phone as long as the outcome is good. From everything we've seen, the performance, including 3D Games, is pretty damn good.
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But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?

Mr.Sir said:
Can't believe HTC uses the Q8250 which is now almost 100% confirmed.
Byebye HTC, never liked your phones anyway, they are crappy as phones. Pooooooooooor speakers, pooooooooor batterylife, poooooooooooooooor cameras, pooooooooooor reception.
All above is right compared to other brands, the 4 most important things in a phone aswell, bad bad.
This certainly doesn't look like they are shaping up
Edit: Either way, good find OP
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Click to collapse
I don't don't seem to understand why your angry at HTC and MS for using the Q8250 processor.
Think about it this way, That processor is the minimum hardware requirement for WP7, so every application and game will be optimized for all devices and developers can take full advantage of the hardware.
Now lets talk about Android fragmentation. Even if you get a Android device with a 2ghz processor and Froyo the applications won't take full advantage of you hardware. Why is that? Because there are Froyo devices on the market with 528mhz and 600mhz qualcomm processors.

Mr.Sir said:
But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?
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Click to collapse
Because it's not "ancient" or "crap" and will allow for devices to be cheaper than they otherwise would be.

Mr.Sir said:
But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?
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Click to collapse
I also can't understand what is happening? It's one thing if HTC would have gone mad or something, but all leaks is pointing towards the QSD8250.
If you don't want a cheaper phone that preforms better and have a better battery time, it's up to you, but I want exactly that!

I hate to state the obvious but doesn't EVERY first gen wp7 device have the same qualcomm processor? strict hardware requirements anyone?
I mean if you knock htc for doing that you may as well knock everyone else for doing it. Fact is that's what microsoft specified for the first crop of devices

domineus said:
I hate to state the obvious but doesn't EVERY first gen wp7 device have the same qualcomm processor? strict hardware requirements anyone?
I mean if you knock htc for doing that you may as well knock everyone else for doing it. Fact is that's what microsoft specified for the first crop of devices
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Do you have a link? We're just complaining that all the leaks are leading to the first gen Qualcomm processor. You know, the one that was in the Toshiba TG-01 back in June 09, with the lacklustre Adreno 200 GPU. If it's the newer snapdragons with the Adreno205 GPU, then that'd be ALOT more acceptable for a current generation device.
In saying that, the Harvest game demo looks hot, but personally, i find it hard to believe that the Adreno200 is doing such good eye candy. I'd like to be proven wrong.
I'm still crossing my fingers that Samsung will have a hummingbird/SGX540 in theirs.

I just want to know what people are referencing to make them think the 8650 is cheaper than the 8250? I'm not buying that.

RustyGrom said:
I just want to know what people are referencing to make them think the 8650 is cheaper than the 8250? I'm not buying that.
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Dont know about cheaper, but it should be abit faster, and less power hungry giving better battery life, due to it being 45nm rather than 65nm. The real breaker is the GPU really. The Adreno 200 on the QSD8250 is like 1/3 the speed of the SGX540.
There are still rumours about that WP7 devices might have the QSD8250A processor @ 1.3ghz, so theres still hope.
Here's a list of Snapdragon CPU's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(processor)

Cruzer1 said:
Dont know about cheaper, but it should be abit faster, and less power hungry giving better battery life, due to it being 45nm rather than 65nm. The real breaker is the GPU really. The Adreno 200 on the QSD8250 is like 1/3 the speed of the SGX540.
There are still rumours about that WP7 devices might have the QSD8250A processor @ 1.3ghz, so theres still hope.
Here's a list of Snapdragon CPU's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(processor)
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Well I get that but people are claiming that it's cheaper as well which seems highly unlikely to me. Maybe over time but not yet.

45nm parts are cheaper to make since they can fit more of them on a single wafer. I have no idea if they are sold cheaper or not to manufacturers but they are cheaper to make.

Op thanks for the look. You still need to remove the second pic as there is no information that isn't in the first except who is logged in.

RustyGrom said:
Because it's not "ancient" or "crap" and will allow for devices to be cheaper than they otherwise would be.
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Click to collapse
I believe the 8255 is cheaper, because it's manufactured on a 45nm process instead of the 65nm. That means more chips per waffer = lower prices.

krjcook said:
I don't don't seem to understand why your angry at HTC and MS for using the Q8250 processor.
Think about it this way, That processor is the minimum hardware requirement for WP7, so every application and game will be optimized for all devices and developers can take full advantage of the hardware.
Now lets talk about Android fragmentation. Even if you get a Android device with a 2ghz processor and Froyo the applications won't take full advantage of you hardware. Why is that? Because there are Froyo devices on the market with 528mhz and 600mhz qualcomm processors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partly agree, however:
Microsoft have said all phones will run all programs, no fragmentation. But we do know that if not the first wave uses the Adreno 205, the second one will. How long will the game developers care about the ones with the first Adreno 200 users?

Will future versions feature multi-core processors??

Hi,
Not to long ago samsung released their new dual core processor "Orion" with has some amazing specs. They says it will be up for mass production in frist half of 2011.
Both qualcomm and lg has also new smartphone processors coming next year.
Will future windows phone 7 devices feature this? The snapdragon in the current devices is kinda outdated...
My ultimate windows phone 7 phone would feature:
512 meg ram or more
at least 1GHz Orion or similar dual core processor
800 x 480 or greater super-amoled multitouch screen
4" screen
Sleak design in aluminium

Yeah.
WP7 will get put onto all the new software as its needs to compete with Android and the iPhone.

Although the 1GHz snapdragon is a little outdated now i think some people don't realise that it is still a beast of a processor, and WP7 has been specifically designed to run perfectly on it as it was the minimum requirement for Hardware Manufacturers don't forget.
Having Qualcomms "Still in Development" 1.5 Dual Core inside a device would be fantastic, but it's not going to happen anytime soon (2012 at the earliest) and for the time being that doesn't bother me the slightest as my HD7 runs smooth as anything with what it's got. I doubt a dual-core processor would increase the usuability of any of the WP7 Phones, the only thing it would do is reduce loading times of App's/Games/etc, which is currently only seconds anyway.

Agreed, I believe in Q2 2011, the processors will finally be available for manufactures
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Audio said:
Although the 1GHz snapdragon is a little outdated now i think some people don't realise that it is still a beast of a processor, and WP7 has been specifically designed to run perfectly on it as it was the minimum requirement for Hardware Manufacturers don't forget.
Having Qualcomms "Still in Development" 1.5 Dual Core inside a device would be fantastic, but it's not going to happen anytime soon (2012 at the earliest) and for the time being that doesn't bother me the slightest as my HD7 runs smooth as anything with what it's got. I doubt a dual-core processor would increase the usuability of any of the WP7 Phones, the only thing it would do is reduce loading times of App's/Games/etc, which is currently only seconds anyway.
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True but what about Samsungs Orion then?
The other reason why im waiting for a New wp7 device is the lack of exchangeable storage on all devices...

my only concern is about the compatibility of the Phones with LTE technology as Verizon's LTE network will be up in my area by the end of the year.

i'm waiting 1G ram with using nvidia Tegra 2 cpu + 5-7 point mutil touch

CE7 supports multi-core ARM CPUs. There are plans to move WP7 to CE7 (it's currently on a CE6/7 variant) later on. That should happen before dual core chips are a reality so there's no reason Microsoft won't move to it. I would guess that would come with a major software and hardware spec update, maybe WP8. There's no point in tossing the current WP7 on much more powerful hardware because the software won't take advantage of it. Games and apps will still be targeted at the 1ghz SnapDragon so basically things will just load faster.
People really need to get out of this hardware spec mentality. It doesn't matter if the phone had a 100mhz CPU if it performs well. I know that's hard if you're a techy but you have to focus on the end result, not the pieces that make it happen.
hkcyber said:
i'm waiting 1G ram with using nvidia Tegra 2 cpu + 5-7 point mutil touch
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Is this for real? Why would you need 5-7 touch points? Can you even fit 7 fingers on a 4in screen?

I sure as hell hope that Microsoft won't allow this on Pad devices.
Sure the idea with Pad devices might be good, but not with an OS built for a 4" display.

Sir. Haxalot said:
I sure as hell hope that Microsoft won't allow this on Pad devices.
Sure the idea with Pad devices might be good, but not with an OS built for a 4" display.
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Click to collapse
yeah, if MS comes out with a pad, I hope they alter the OS or make a new one optimized for a pad sized screen.

Why Windows Phone 7 doesn't desperately need more powerful devices this year

I take no credit for this, ita a great article i came across that made the most sense in a while related to hardware :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...erately-need-more-powerful-devices-this-year/
As you have probably already noticed I was at Mobile World Congress this week so I had the opportunity to play around with some of the latest and most powerful handsets ever created. This year was obviously dominated by Google’s Android platform which took center stage at the convention with essentially every OEMs demonstrating or unveiling products running the immensely successful OS. What does it have to do with Windows Phone 7 hardware ? Well if there’s one thing that really garbed my attention it is the fact that not a single Android device I played with was as snappy and smooth as the Samsung Omnia 7 device I had in my pocket (or any iPhone model). Yes some of the devices on display were running non finalized software and probably hardware too but this has already been the case with retail devices like the Galaxy S and Desire HD which feature more powerful hardware than all the currently released WP7 devices.
I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: Android is the new Windows Mobile. OEMs want to differentiate their the products and one of the best way to do this is to use the latest and greatest chipsets, screen technology or other fancy hardware components. But as an end user, why should I care about the newest Exynos 4210, TI OMAP 4430, Tegra 2 if it can’t provide me with the same user experience as the now nearly 3 years old QSD8250 found in my Windows Phone 7 device? Similar to the old Windows Mobile days; OEMs are using Android’s “openness” as a test bed for their new CPUs and chipsets and are pumping out devices with crazy hardware specifications to show themselves in the press and sell device purely based on check list features: Dual-Core CPU ? Check. XX Mpix camera ? Check. 3D Cameras? Check. Huge Screen? Check etc. The issue here is that device manufacturers are more interested in time to market so optimizing the software to work with the hardware is just an afterthought. It’s not Google’s job to code the driver for the Samsung Exynos or for TI’s OMAP4. Google doesn’t even want to get the browser to use GPU acceleration for smoother scrolling and panning so the device manufacturers shouldn’t even count on the big G to give them any kind meaningful help in this department (Samsung has apparently implemented GPU acceleration to the browser in some unreleased Galaxy S firmware builds).
HTC has apparently learned the lesson a long time ago and has instead decided to milk the same SoC for while and instead just improve it’s Sense software layer every time it releases a new batch of devices. The end user is in both cases being presented with less than optimal solutions / offerings: On one hand you have new hardware that goes totally unused (Samsung, LG) and on the other you are buying exactly the same hardware but with an updated software layer (HTC).
Now let’s go back to Windows Phone 7 for minute. Take a Google Nexus One/ HTC Desire and compare it to the similarly speced WP7 devices. Which one is the snappiest and offers the smoothest UX? Same for the HTC HD2 running WM6.5 compared to the same device running Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has several big advantage with WP7 compared to Android. First, the have enforced strict HW guidelines and are currently only supporting Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoCs and their Adreno GPUs. Secondly the Adreno GPUs are closely related to the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox360 so the company was already quite a bit familiar with architecture. Thirdly they control the APIs (Direct3D Mobile through DXGI and probably Direct2D for IE9 Mobile) unlike Android which relies on OpenGL ES and the drivers developed by the chipset manufacturers. The Windows Phone 7 ecosystem is like a console ecosystem with one set of drivers and APIs all controlled and certified by Microsoft while Android is more like a PC ecosystem filled with tons of different hardware configurations, driver versions controlled by nobody (Qualcomm even told me that OEMs don’t really bother including the latest drivers in the devices just because they are more concerned by the shipping date of the handset than with the end user experience. For example, as of right now the SE Xperia Play is the Android handset that has the latest Adreno 205 drivers).
Who would have thought that Microsoft would be able to easily port IE9 (which requires a DX10 GPU on the desktop) to Windows Phone 7 which only runs on a relatively old Adreno 200 GPU (DX9 capable) ins such a short time? Now take a look at the current state of the Webkit on Android: Yes it’s blazing fast at loading web pages on those super powerful handsets but after that the UX is simply anticlimactic because of the lack of HW acceleration. This is supposed to be fixed in Honeycomb on the tablets right? But where’s the smartphone version? From what I have seen at MWC the touch responsiveness of the Android 3.0 tablets varies greatly from one device maker to another. So once again Google’s lack of control of the hardware and drivers is going to hurt the end user.
This is not to say that Windows Phone 7 should be stuck with the current QSD8250. New high-end WP7 devices are going to be announced later this year because technology evolves at a rapid pace and Microsoft will obviously want to support higher resolution screens and video formats (and yes they are working on new Chassis but the Nokia partnership which was decided only last Thursday changed some of the plans), more graphically intensive 3D games and applications but the point here is that they are in no rush to do this because they can squeeze a lot more out of the first generation Snapdragon SoC than what is possible with Android. Everything I just said so far also applies to Apple’s iPhone which is quite similar to Windows Phone 7 and I personally think that there’s no need for Apple to switch to a dual-core SoC for the upcoming iPhone 5 given that the A4 is still powerful enough for 99% of the tasks (but if they do then you can be sure that they will have the software to take advantage of it). Android is obviously a really great OS that I enjoy using it on a daily basis thanks to all the features it supports but Google should really stop the madness and take over control of what should or shouldn’t be done on the platform. OEMs are loving it right now because they are free to do whatever they see fit but I really think that it will hurt the platform in the long run when people start to realise that they paying for hardware that most of the time isn’t used all or just paying for a software update (HTC..).
What Windows Phone 7 is in desperate need of is software updates filled with differentiating features and thrid-party access to more APIs so they developers can create more exciting and advanced applications.
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Discuss...

Pretty much the facts.... I mean that is just an astounding article... spot on.

As an Android user who is otherwise impartial to OS wars, I wholeheartedly agree. For months now, I've been telling people that Android reminds me of the old Windows Mobile. Every WM7 device I have ever played with has exhibited exemplary smoothness and snappyness compared to any Android handset you care to name. It's a shame because Android is really good otherwise.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

IMO, although it would be nice to have, WP7 doesnt have to go overboard like Android is doing when it comes to specs as to dual core cpu's, 3d displays and such. I believe that they should improve hardware based on features such as front facing camera to add video chat functinality, perhaps a video output via 3.5mm jack (since requiring hdmi might be pushing it a little across all oem's) etc.
Im positive that if they bump up the cpu to support at least second gen snapdragon with its 45nm architecture, improved 205 Adreno GPU and much faster clock per clock compared to first gen, i have no doubt that besides the inmensly graphical stressing situations, WP7 would run circles round any dual core Android device since it being used to its full potential and proper optimization and drivers makes it not have a elephant on its back to carry

I think it is a given that we will eventually see more powerful Qualcomm SoCs show up in WP7 devices, and possibly other manufacturers' SoCs. This generation might become the "budget" chassis in 2012...Who knows?
What I do like, and want it to remain the same, is the fact that Microsoft needs to certify whatever hardware specs is used, so when updates are pushed out, Microsoft wouldn't need to run to each manufacturer and ask for drivers...

I'm sold where can I buy one? I kid, I kid. I have a Focus.
One thing is for sure, the overall opinion of the phone UI is excellent for all the listed reasons. Thanks for the post.
I compare this current experience to my experience with Windows 7 rc. Much like the day I installed Windows 7 to my lowly Dual Core (e2150, 2gb, 7200 HDD), it was good but not great in terms of speed, quick but not fast. Then, the cycle moved on and new hardware at low prices came into my life...
Now at Quad Core, 8 gb, Dual GPU, SSD, it is like driving a Buggati Veyron, downhill, on a 5 lane speedway, with no traffic. Life is instantaneous, the only limit...my ability to click as fast as it acts. ha! It happens as if I had on a thinking helmet and it sucked the idea out of my head!
I can only imagine wp7 on the set of phones that will come out...8 months...1 to 2 years from today...oh yeaaaaaa
close your eyes, think about it. Did you think about it? Think again, that's right. Amazing.
Wasn't that nice? Ahhhh yeaaaaaa
With dual core and a 2x faster GPU...oh my...it will get smoother and faster...hard to imagine and exciting at the same time. :splooge:
All in due time, I am happy with my phone today and happily have put my development time into other projects and not Wm6.5. Like this one from Johnny http://hackaday.com/2011/02/09/low-cost-video-chat-robot/

The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS

I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.

They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.

Reflexx1 said:
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
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The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.

Yeah but is it partially due to room? I mean, Sense ROMs running slower than the cleaned up and simpler AOSP ROMs? I get the lack of acceleration ... a d understand the end result and why people might complain ... but my phone is snappy even though at times I notice slow down .. but that is hardly reason to ignore stability updates, even others. I mean , while my phone might be running smooth here ... it may slow down there. I see the choppy scroll .. but I've seen friends WP7 - uh, phones? - slow down at times too.
I get sick of this WP7 is constantly butter because its not. More often than not? Sure. But I rarely get agitated at the speed of mu device and most don't either ... sure I can see it, but I've also seen my.phone jump as much as my friends WP7 devices. It all depends. Overall, sure ... but it still doesnt touch iOS. To think you are major steps ahead is hype. More overhead here .... lack of acceleration here ... it's not shocking when you think about it. Android uses more resources and overhead ... you have such q standardized system. Its almost not surprising. And it's NOT suggestive of you being "good" at the moment.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

That's a great article. I agree 100%. I had a Samsung Galaxy S and with it's freshest time it had the most powerful chips int the markets, but even today it is not lag free, because of crappy Samsung optimizations to the software. That's why I really don't believe the new Galaxy S II will be any better with it's dual core. You could see it from the videos, that it's laggy at the moment and I don't believe Samsung will get it lag free ever.

fast hardware = bad ?
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.

N8ter said:
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
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Why is 512+ RAM important, I was thing about getting the HTC 7 Pro, which only has 448 RAM and also is 16gb necessary if I don't use my phone as a media player as HTC 7 Pro only has 8gb as well?

Beesneazy, you're either completely full of crap or just delusional. I mean wow. Android fanboyism at its ugliest. Yeesh.
Ohgood, did you read the article? If you did, perhaps it's time to go back to Hooked on Phonics to work on word comprehension...
Anyhow, on topic, I completely agree with the article posted by OP. Kiddies like these Android fanboys love to deny the truth but it is what it is. Did everyone really think Microsoft would just sit back and be pummeled in the mobile phone market forever? With the right moves in the future WP7 will be huge. Maybe knock Android back down to third or fourth place and setup a head to head with iOS...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

ohgood said:
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
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Click to collapse
Yes, and when you get your quad core phones that are still lagging, and still dont recieve the latest updates, and are still running a version of android that is essentially a pallet swap of 2.1 and still looks like a low end iphone we'll be happy with our maybe dual or maybe quad-core phones that run smoother, have better games (because aside from iphone ports and maybe 1-2 other games androids selection is just terrible), have a decent media player, have oustanding integration with business and personal matters, and we'll actually have a NEW OS not just an overhyped pallet swap of the previous version.

Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.

N8ter said:
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
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I'm not sure what you're attempting to address when you quoted me. I never mentioned changing the minimum specs of WP7.
And I think it's pretty much guaranteed that WP8 will have a completely different set of minimum specs. Do you expect it to never change?

vetvito said:
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
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Exactly! I agree they don't need more powerful devices but they do need more appealing hardware (for a start a 32GB device would do no harm).
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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Click to collapse
Sad but true. WP7 is quite late and if you think about it the real launch will be with Nokia, I doubt they'll sell anything before that as nothing has changed since October.

vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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Click to collapse
this is true only because the majority of cellphone owners are complete morons.

No Mango update for 1st gen devices?

Engadget posted the latest spec requirements for WP7 devices and some minimum requirements are higher than the 1st gen WP7 devices specs.
What does it mean? No Mango update for 1st gen devices?
That would be so depressing, I don't have the money to buy a new phone come 2012. I JUST bought my current device.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/14/microsofts-latest-wp7-chassis-spec-includes-second-gen-snapdrag/

I highly doubt they would do this as it would be a massive slap in the face to the initial supporters

Strider88 said:
Engadget posted the latest spec requirements for WP7 devices and some minimum requirements are higher than the 1st gen WP7 devices specs.
What does it mean? No Mango update for 1st gen devices?
That would be so depressing, I don't have the money to buy a new phone come 2012. I JUST bought my current device.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/14/microsofts-latest-wp7-chassis-spec-includes-second-gen-snapdrag/
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No, these are just requirements for the devices pre-installed with Mango. First-gen devices will definitely get Mango. Otherwise, MS is going to lose a lot of sales!

All devices get Mango, confirmed again yesterday at MIX.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Thanks guys! that's reassuring...

Those are specs for 2nd generation WP7 phones, not for update.

This is why I like this "rule with an iron fist" strategy of Windows Phone with respect to phone hardware.
All the first gen devices will get Mango update. All the first gen specs were pretty much the same so you know if an HTC HD7 can run it, so can a Trophy. once they preserve this generation iteration (gen 1 = ver one snapdragon, gen 2 = ver two snapdragon) it will be very easy to know if you can run the newest OS in the future based on your generation not on your handset maker.

Blade0rz said:
First-gen devices will definitely get Mango.
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Famous last words. There should be a disclaimer "unless you're on the AT&T network."

How are those specs higher? I'm pretty sure this is just a bump mainly for Qualcomms production purposes, as they've lowered the speed rating, however, the first gen chips aren't that far behind tbh...

FiyaFleye said:
How are those specs higher? I'm pretty sure this is just a bump mainly for Qualcomms production purposes, as they've lowered the speed rating, however, the first gen chips aren't that far behind tbh...
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Specs ARE higher.
The 2nd gen 800MHz CPU performs on par with todays 1st gen 1GHz CPU. The 2nd gen 1GHz CPU performs even better. There isn't much of a difference though, the CPU is hardly taxed on WP7 devices anyway. The HUGE improvement will come from the fact these SoCs include the Adreno 205 GPU which is massively faster than the 1st gen Adreno 200.
Add to this that the 2nd gen SoC's are 45nm rather than 65nm which means they use less battery and run cooler.

nathantw said:
Famous last words. There should be a disclaimer "unless you're on the AT&T network."
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Unbranded and updated

And what about the new language support. Will this be included also in the Mango update for 1st gen WP7 devices. In my case, I bought a HTC Trophy 7 Vodafone branded version. So after the Mango update i would like to enable the Dutch language on my Trophy. Is this possible guys?

nick.venema said:
And what about the new language support. Will this be included also in the Mango update for 1st gen WP7 devices. In my case, I bought a HTC Trophy 7 Vodafone branded version. So after the Mango update i would like to enable the Dutch language on my Trophy. Is this possible guys?
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There will be no limitations at all, every phone will run Mango, new and old. That includes all features of mango including language packs etc.

brummiesteven said:
There will be no limitations at all, every phone will run Mango, new and old. That includes all features of mango including language packs etc.
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I hope you're right because others speculate that this would'nt be the case. Has something to do with license from manufacter and Microsoft or so.... Let's hope Microsoft wil cover this in a smart way.

emigrating said:
Specs ARE higher.
The 2nd gen 800MHz CPU performs on par with todays 1st gen 1GHz CPU. The 2nd gen 1GHz CPU performs even better. There isn't much of a difference though, the CPU is hardly taxed on WP7 devices anyway. The HUGE improvement will come from the fact these SoCs include the Adreno 205 GPU which is massively faster than the 1st gen Adreno 200.
Add to this that the 2nd gen SoC's are 45nm rather than 65nm which means they use less battery and run cooler.
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How does that work? How is 800MHz faster then the 1GHz?
Sent using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I can agree with you about the GPU, but it isn't this outrageous upgrade... I honestly see this as first Gen snapdeagons not being produced for Mcrosoft...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

airwa1kin7 said:
How does that work? How is 800MHz faster then the 1GHz?
Sent using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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I think MSM7X30 are with 2nd generation Scorpion CPU kernel while our current QSD8X50 are with 1st generation scorpion (Correct me if wrong). There might be a efficiency increase.
Anyway, 65nm->45nm and Adreno 200 -> 205 will help.

I was expecting a msm8660 and adreno 220. I don't see a big improveme unless I'm missing something.
Sent from my LG-E900h using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

airwa1kin7 said:
How does that work? How is 800MHz faster then the 1GHz?
Sent using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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The same as how a i5 @ 2ghz is faster than a P4 @ 3ghz

FiyaFleye said:
I can agree with you about the GPU, but it isn't this outrageous upgrade...
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True, it's not a huge leap in performance. But I see this as a good thing for three reasons;
1. We don't actually need a dual-core 1.5GHz CPU. Our phones are fast enough as is. Sure, It'd be nice to have something high-end, but it's not needed and brings me to
2. Using slightly older tech (i.e. 2nd gen rather then 3rd gen) keeps prices in check. This is good as the average consumer can easily afford (and justify buying) a WP7 device. And
3. this means older devices will still be able to run Mango (or, more so, apps written specifically for ManGo) without performance issues. Remember how iOS4 initially performed on the early iPhones (i.e. 3G and older)?
They seem to actually have a strategy behind running on middle of the road hardware and I for one think it's great. What I would like to see is more optional hardware though, FFC, NFC, Gyro etc should all be supported (and I have a feeling they all will be) by the OS but optional to let OEMs differentiate themselves in the market.
At first I thought the inclusion of an optional Gyro was madness, but after seeing a MIX11 session it all fell into place - they [MS] have constructed the API so that you don't call the Gyro directly, rather you call a "movement" API which will give you the information you require. This means that devices without a Gyro will still give you, the developer, the same datastream to work with, just with a lower "resolution" than on devices with a Gyro. The same could be applied to other functionality which in the end means there will be no fragmentation - however having devices running on anything from a 800GHz single-core to a 1.5GHz dual-core processor would mean games [especially] would run great on some devices and not at all on others.

new hardware Qualcomm’s next-gen (not wp7)

http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...e-cpu-and-gpu-chipsets-coming-later-this-year
Does wp7 really want to be only single-core really old hardware? This new hardware in the end 2011 with Android even if unoptimised will kick ass to wp7 in current specs chassis even with Mango enhacments... MS needs to work harder...
Much better games performance, faster loading apps... etc...
75% lower power... I think MS needs to step back on power restrictions... this chips will be 75% less power... they are restricting too much the OS against the Android when the new chips will have a much better battery and performance rate than the actual ones...

Well, the benefit of multiple cores isn't as obvious as one may think because software has to be written in a special way in order to benefit from more than one core. So basically buying a phone with two cores running current versions of Android or WP7 or whatever is most probably just a waste.
That being said, newer processors are built using 45nm technology and consume less power, so using those more modern cores would probably be more noticeable.
And of course it's all going the way of megapixels. Since most people will automatically assume that if you have twice as many cores the thing will run twice as fast, you sort of must use those multiple cores, no matter if it benefits the end user or not.
So yeah, I guess MS have to update hardware support...

actually 28nm...
and this new hardware, have 2.5Ghz... even if they are multi-core they should go faster then current 1ghz... with less power... and games would benefit a whole lot...
besides even if current software isn't optimized, as soon as this harware would be released people would start to optimize it. Android already start it. Does MS wants to be on the back of mobile competion, again?

Whether games will be rewritten or not depends on how widespread those multicore devices will be and when. So far games aren't exactly utilizing modern hardware - how many of them take advantage of Samsung's awesome GPUs built into Galaxy S phones? When 90% of devices in the market don't have this type of tech, what's the point of rewriting everything just to accomodate for the 10%?
Now, I'm not saying that multiple cores aren't awesome, I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely that you'll see real benefit from them this year.

tfouto said:
actually 28nm...
and this new hardware, have 2.5Ghz... even if they are multi-core they should go faster then current 1ghz... with less power... and games would benefit a whole lot...
besides even if current software isn't optimized, as soon as this harware would be released people would start to optimize it. Android already start it. Does MS wants to be on the back of mobile competion, again?
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First: no flame intended.
You're making a lot of assumptions. Faster, less power. Don't look into the neighbor's garden to fix your own garden. Think what is necessary for WP7 to advance and be better.
Then, Android is so fragmented and has sooooo many models I wouldn't know where to start if I would want to try one. There is no real stability in term of standards. Every 6 months there's a better phone (like a new generation) and you end up with an older model after that period. So basically the cycle is much shorter than on every other platform. Even iPhone has a 1 year cycle. And I don't even want to think about privacy issues there, you basically upload all your data and behavior somewhere else and agree it can be used by others...
But that is not the real issue. People expect a platform to mature over night. It won't happen, we all need to be a bit patient. If you're looking for future features now, then you've already made a mistake, regardless of what platform you're on.
People should understand what they want from a phone first. We all know it's easier to spot problems with the things you're familiar with and you see the others as better. But once you try the others you realize it's the same story again, it looked better before when you didn't know it.
To conclude: my WP7 phone does exactly what's supposed to do, with the current hardware specs. Can it do more? Sure, but we have to be a bit patient. Then, if it doesn't deliver, try something else. Until then, I don't want to be a technology nomad, I'll always be unhappy as in a few months there will always be a better phone. I'd rather stick with something until it matures a bit and enjoy the ride/phone.

You do realise that the Chasis is minimum specs right? Manufaturers can use what they want as long as it's above those specs.

^ not for chips.

brummiesteven said:
You do realise that the Chasis is minimum specs right? Manufaturers can use what they want as long as it's above those specs.
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not really... you are wrong... they can for components... camera, etc... not chips...

tfouto said:
not really... you are wrong... they can for components... camera, etc... not chips...
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Fair enough, my bad.

The good thing about how MS is handling hardware is also the bad thing. They are making the drivers so we don't have to worry about putting up with crappy drivers from OEM's like HTC. The bad thing is in order to see newer hardware, MS has to release an update for said hardware's drivers. Mango will include drivers for a newer chipset, just not this Quad Core. Than again, the Quad isn't due out till the end of 2012, so why add support now or even write drivers for unfinished hardware.

I dont see the need for multiple cores, am i the only person?

moneysaver05 said:
I dont see the need for multiple cores, am i the only person?
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+1
I want to use my phone primary as a "information device", I use it to check my mails, send messages, update facebook, look things up on Wikipedia, search translations and browse the web. In order to do these things my old HTC Touch with 200 MHz was enough (it was slow but it has done the job well :-D ). But new devices like the WP7s add further possibilities. Entertaining has become more important. Entertaining has becom more important. But in order to use the handset as media player i don't think a Dual-Core Processor is necessary. And honestly, if I want to play a game with high graphics, i use my PC.
I don't want to complain but i totally agree with you moneysaver... Using Dual-Core processors would on one hand increase the gaming experience but on the other increase the price and drain more power. In my opinion "better" processor would bring to many downsides ATM. Another thing is, that you can outsource all heavy calculations to the cloud...
In short: If someone would offer me a phone with a efficient Dual-Core Processor, I would't say no. But i wouldn't say a Dual-Core Processor is a must-have...
Regards
Chris

Most important is low power with fast processor.
Sent from my 7 Trophy using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

well low power it fast processor is exactly what this new chips are...
twitter takes 7 seconds to fully open... with a 2.5ghz would take 3 seconds and with a dual core much less... and which less consuptiom i cant see what how bad could it be...

ov2rey said:
Most important is low power with fast processor.
Sent from my 7 Trophy using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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The newer chips consumes less power

tfouto said:
well low power it fast processor is exactly what this new chips are...
twitter takes 7 seconds to fully open... with a 2.5ghz would take 3 seconds and with a dual core much less... and which less consuptiom i cant see what how bad could it be...
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I 'd rather have a fully used single core processor with optimized drivers from Microsoft than a 5GHz quad core with no software to use it. Next update will bring lower memory consumption and other optimizations that will be enough to coast us to 2012 were another update will (probably ? ) be released to support the upgraded chassis specs (dual cores maybe?)
iPhones have shown that optimized software makes up for less powered hardware (my wife's 3Gs is a living proof of that)

Android: Non-optmized OS.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/28/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-review/
- Class-leading speed and responsiveness
i sincerely dont believe that wp7 Mango optimized with current Snapdragon can compete with this speed... and the later HTC EVO 3D... and of course
battery life...