Develop Bugs

Who is planning to stick with WinMo7?

I made this poll last time, but this was around when the news of WP7 was just getting out. I'm sure that from then and now, we've learned a lot more about the OS and MS has released a lot more info regarding the OS. So with that being said, I was just curious to see if there were any change of hearts.
Vote on!

I plan on buying a windows phone whenever some nice looking hardware comes to Verizon. I might have to wait a while since ill have to buy one at full price because my upgrade isn't until 2012.

Never will I ever choose anything besides Windows 7 or their webcam for my products.
Ad notifications? What kind of nonsense is this?
And here is the real nail in the coffin:
"At launch, Windows Phone 7 will not have the ability to cut, copy, and paste. It will recognize telephone numbers and addresses, but Microsoft says the majority of users don't need 'cut, copy, and paste'."
With that attitude, do I trust this company for phones? No. The iPhone 2G had more features than this!
I hope they die in the mobile arena. Their efforts have been haphazard and poor. If it does turn out to be good (doubtful since I've used Windows Mobile since the Blackjack) I don't see anything it offers that Android or iPhone doesn't already do, and better.
Fun phones are the iPhone and Android systems. They're also very good for work as well.
Blackberry handles business as usual.
And Microsoft, your best move was investing in Apple.

Dratini said:
Never will I ever choose anything besides Windows 7 or their webcam for my products.
Ad notifications? What kind of nonsense is this?
And here is the real nail in the coffin:
"At launch, Windows Phone 7 will not have the ability to cut, copy, and paste. It will recognize telephone numbers and addresses, but Microsoft says the majority of users don't need 'cut, copy, and paste'."
With that attitude, do I trust this company for phones? No. The iPhone 2G had more features than this!
I hope they die in the mobile arena. Their efforts have been haphazard and poor. If it does turn out to be good (doubtful since I've used Windows Mobile since the Blackjack) I don't see anything it offers that Android or iPhone doesn't already do, and better.
Fun phones are the iPhone and Android systems. They're also very good for work as well.
Blackberry handles business as usual.
And Microsoft, your best move was investing in Apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like a guy who is been around for a long time !!?. I respect your opinion but it is windows mobile what made this forum what it is today. So let it die?
It depends what kind of user you are, I have always been a fan of windows because its customizable, what is for me an added value. Now with the coming of mobile7, I dont know, but I´m sure we can support and make the OS better around here.
Iphone is in my opinion a hyped phone (especially the iphone4) and clearly is not as good as the previous versions because of its hardware malfunction.
Respecting Andriod, I like the phones and they are great but still I´m staying old fashioned and try and stick to WinMo.
As you can notice I will buy a phone with the new OS because I´m just curious and its flawless integrated with windows platforms in private and corporate perspective. What i believe is the advantage of Microsoft software.

I will buy a WP7 device in Germany as soon a device similar to the HD2 is released. For me are a display around 4 inch, arround 448 MB RAM, at least 16GB flash memory important. An amoled display is prefered.
Why WP7? As a developer I have with Silverlight much more fun and I have no fun to flash my device regularry to get the rom to a quality level that should be out of box. Is's a shame but big thanks to this board for making the good HD2 roms

Just waiting on what T-Mobile USA will bring us

Dratini said:
With that attitude, do I trust this company for phones? No. The iPhone 2G had more features than this!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure it did.
Main difference between WP7 and other mobile OSes, that it is being complex. iOS has just core stuff - kernel, some core APIs and few built-in apps like mail or safari. Android adds some wannabe support for integrating facebook, today widgets. WP7 comes as latest one with around 2 year development as of now, including full facebook integration at launch, combining and integrating your contacts into facebook. This was just an example, that WP7 is way more complex system, than any other mobile OS we have now. It allows integration into hubs, ... while all you can do on iOS is just add your icon on app launcher. No integration into core apps.
Also the biggest fun will begin shortly. Possibility to develop for PC-Xbox360-WP7 with one source code (and just optimizing user input for mouse, joystick or touchscreen) is f...in promising. And Silverlight, C# and XNA are awesome to play and create with, compared to native coding.
I will be getting WP7 as soon as I get the opportunity. Love the UI (I'd just say more colors into icons in the applist). Love the possibilities. Love MS!

OndraSter said:
Sure it did.
Main difference between WP7 and other mobile OSes, that it is being complex. iOS has just core stuff - kernel, some core APIs and few built-in apps like mail or safari. Android adds some wannabe support for integrating facebook, today widgets. WP7 comes as latest one with around 2 year development as of now, including full facebook integration at launch, combining and integrating your contacts into facebook. This was just an example, that WP7 is way more complex system, than any other mobile OS we have now. It allows integration into hubs, ... while all you can do on iOS is just add your icon on app launcher. No integration into core apps.
Also the biggest fun will begin shortly. Possibility to develop for PC-Xbox360-WP7 with one source code (and just optimizing user input for mouse, joystick or touchscreen) is f...in promising. And Silverlight, C# and XNA are awesome to play and create with, compared to native coding.
I will be getting WP7 as soon as I get the opportunity. Love the UI (I'd just say more colors into icons in the applist). Love the possibilities. Love MS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what?!!
xbox-wp7-pc game integration is a possibility? but how is a phone going to be as capable as the three cores plus graphics core of a 360?

As soon as Sprint gets a killer 4G enabled one. Bamn! I'm there.
Gota get on the leading edge again and start promoting the thing to my friends/family/co-workers/etc.

theomni said:
what?!!
xbox-wp7-pc game integration is a possibility? but how is a phone going to be as capable as the three cores plus graphics core of a 360?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, WP7 has a lower target resolution than XBox and PCs. You also can use a lower resolution than the native resolution of WP7 and the phone will resize the image "for free" using a dedicated chip. To target the different input formats, you have to tweak the code and use conditional compilation (like #If Xbox; #If WP7; #If Windows). If you want to utilize the full potential of each platform, there may be many conditional compilation instructions, but it is possible. Depending on the architecture, the main game logic can remain the same and does not need (many) changes.

Ima stick with it. WP7 is nice.

Yep, just as Reihnold described it.
The main logic and core is the same, you just optimalize it for different input and ofc slower HW (but with coming Hummingbird etc we will see reaching Xbox on WVGA screen in few years I bet). You disable some cool effects etc, but you do that with those #If Xbox360 fxRainbow.Enable = true; #Endif etc, so nothing huge. Compared to Linux-Android it is something quite easy. Mostly because of awesome IDE.

Wouldn't consider anything else.

I will definitely buy one. Love MS products and services and using them all integrated on my phone is the biggest thing they could ever made!
Cloud is the future

I'd be more interested to know what percentage of people would switch to wp7 in an iphone and/or android forum really. That to me is a better indicator of how well wp7 will do at launch.

I eventually want to switch, but ill do it further down the line when the OS matures.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I voted for sticking with WP7, all the latest videos I've seen show how super smooth it is so I wont be switching to clunky Andriod anytime soon

I am waiting to actually see how well the office, RDP and other apps integrate into windows before I pull the trigger on one. I really could care less about facebook integration or twitter or any social networking. Sure I use facebook, but I want to keep my contacts seperate from my social networking. I want a business device first. Not to say I won't try one out, but I intend on keeping my Tilt2 around unless they release a WM6.5 handset with a keyboard and a faster processor and more RAM! like that will happen...
And if it comes to switching platforms, android is next in line. No apple products ever in my house.

kdj67f said:
No apple products ever in my house.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that

I am so ready to purchase one of Windows Phone 7 phones! Why? please... for those ppl who say WP7 is not as great as their beloved WM 6 series, you gotta let your ego go. And yes, i have HD2. So this is a customer with experiences with hacking my device and use cooked ROMs. And yes i hate using cooked ROMs. Althogh i use cooked ROMs that looks like stock version atm. But i am planning to purchase it in this holiday or wait for htc to announce HD3 the beast! I really want my phone to have 1.5ghz or something downgraded clocked duo cpu.

Won't there ever be a Windows Phone 7 Lite ROM?

I was just curious to know this from a long time.
Will there ever be a Lite Windows Phone 7 ROM for phones that are lesser than 1GB processor.
If so, what are some of the things we might have to sacrifice??
Just a question and a no offence to any1...
Thanx...healthy arguments are welcome...

Your beloved X1 or any other non-snapdragon phone doesn't meet requirements, the processor simply isn't capable of running it on instruction level, it requires ARMv7 processor, while all other <Snapdragon are ARMv6 only capable (WM requires ARMv4i).

OndraSter said:
Your beloved X1 or any other non-snapdragon phone doesn't meet requirements, the processor simply isn't capable of running it on instruction level, it requires ARMv7 processor, while all other <Snapdragon are ARMv6 only capable (WM requires ARMv4i).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanx al ot for ur reply..I got it...no WinPhone 7 for me....
BUt how about a Lite ROM???
Minus a few things mayb....its the famous game of 'wait and watch'

WP7 IS Lite, the only thing you could remove is all 3D animations and such, which probably would require deep changes in the core which also probably would break compatibility with all WP7 Apps. You would also need to recompile the OS for versions lower than ARMv7, which would require the source code, which only Microsoft have. Microsoft know exactly what they are doing so they wont open support for old crap devices. There is a reason that they broke backwards capability.
TL;DR: Get a new phone instead, there will never be a "lite" ROM of this.

Sir. Haxalot said:
WP7 IS Lite, the only thing you could remove is all 3D animations and such, which probably would require deep changes in the core which also probably would break compatibility with all WP7 Apps. You would also need to recompile the OS for versions lower than ARMv7, which would require the source code, which only Microsoft have. Microsoft know exactly what they are doing so they wont open support for old crap devices. There is a reason that they broke backwards capability.
TL;DR: Get a new phone instead, there will never be a "lite" ROM of this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sigh...
Sad but true. Thanx anyways...its a lil bit like IE9 not being compatible with XP....

Such a ROM would be instantly banned from XBox Live, etc. when you try to connect. Microsoft already has the infrastructure in place to do it. I would be a dumb phone with a cute UI, basically.
Same goes for WP7 ROMs ported to other devices.

circleofomega said:
i was just curious to know this from a long time.
Will there ever be a lite windows phone 7 rom for phones that are lesser than 1gb processor.
If so, what are some of the things we might have to sacrifice??
Just a question and a no offence to any1...
Thanx...healthy arguments are welcome...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ha ha ha ha no never ever ever !!!!! Supporting devices slower than 1ghz was why windows mobile was introuble in the first place they allowed their os on crappy devices!!!!! Now windows phone 7 will never be on crap phones with these new restrictions and i agree with the minimum requirements 100% go microsoft for killing low-end crap windows mobile crashboxes

Also there is no need for Microsoft to develop a Windows Phone 7 Lite for new entry-level handsets. At the moment Windows Phone 7 is used only in high-end handsets, because of the strict hardware-requirements. But with time, this hardware will become cheaper and therefore Windows Phone 7 will be available in entry-level handsets. I guess you can get a WP7 device for 200€ instead of the current 500€ in two year.

What does 'entry level handset' mean?

circleofomega said:
What does 'entry level handset' mean?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A phone that is cheap to buy, unlike the current phones (200 with 2 year contract)

desolateone1 said:
A phone that is cheap to buy, unlike the current phones (200 with 2 year contract)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
getting my hd7 for 100 with corporate discount. Is that entry level enough?!?

Well Folks
What say
http://www.unwiredview.com/2010/04/...e-launched-in-india-other-developing-markets/
http://www.tech-exclusive.com/microsoft-to-launch-cheap-windows-phone-7-in-india/

Now MS/WP7 is the only major OS without tablet support (mini-rant)

It just hit me after today's HP WebOS event that Microsoft is the last big competitor without a real tablet OS (that isn't a thrown-together Windows 7).
Apple has the iPad with iOS.
RIM has the Playbook with QNX.
Google has the Xoom/G-Slate and more with Android 3.0
HP (formerly Palm) has the Touchpad with WebOS 3.0
I know everyone has been on Microsoft's case for tablets, but now they should be really panicking. I'm not sure it's enough to just have WP7 on smartphones anymore if it wants to build a competing ecosystem. The most frustrating part of all of this is that Microsoft really has nailed it better than the rest of these with really deep multimedia features from Zune, Xbox Live services, and a genuinely unique UI.
A couple of months ago, people kept saying Microsoft needs to make WP7 for tablets right that moment. I didn't believe them back then but now I think Microsoft is seriously in trouble. Tablets are going to cannibalize laptop/netbook sales soon and one of the top PC manufacturers, HP, is even pushing WebOS on to laptops later this year. Unless they have an ace up their sleeve with Windows 8 and cross-compatibility with WP7, I am beginning to worry about the long term plan here.

Wait... WebOS is a major OS?
and, Windows has tablets, just because their phone OS isnt tablet based doesnt mean they don't have tablets. Windows xp on my tablet is much more enjoyable.

z33dev33l said:
Wait... WebOS is a major OS?
and, Windows has tablets, just because their phone OS isnt tablet based doesnt mean they don't have tablets. Windows xp on my tablet is much more enjoyable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well since Palm got bought out by the colossal HP and since WebOS has managed to survive these past few months and still somehow stay relevant, I'd say that yeah they can be considered one of the major OS' now. HP is being pretty damn aggressive with WebOS (the Pre 3 and Touchpad look fantastic) and has finally made the hardware to match the software.
That's what I mean though. The average consumer has proved that time and again they do not want normal bloated desktop Windows on a tablet. It's not nearly as intuitive as iOS or even Android, and since Microsoft has to compete with those desktop Windows is not enough anymore.

Makes sense, I guess it's kinda the old WP7 vs iOS, mass market versus us tech geeks who like to play. The question is will they follow the money on this as they have with their phones. As for the new WebOS I can't really act impressed, I mean if they used a rigged poll as their keynote they can't have much to offer. I've played with the OS and it felt a lot like a dolled up blackberry to me and blackberry was just unenjoyable.

the thing that doesn't impress me about the hardware for webOS is how they still use such a low resolution. that would of been the first thing i would have improved on those devices...

z33dev33l said:
Makes sense, I guess it's kinda the old WP7 vs iOS, mass market versus us tech geeks who like to play. The question is will they follow the money on this as they have with their phones. As for the new WebOS I can't really act impressed, I mean if they used a rigged poll as their keynote they can't have much to offer. I've played with the OS and it felt a lot like a dolled up blackberry to me and blackberry was just unenjoyable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? I was always pretty impressed by WebOS and thought it was far and away better looking and easier to use than Android or Blackberry. I always considered it "the grown up version of iOS" because the gestures and dynamic UI elements are just so much more advanced yet Palm kept things so simple and intuitive.
But I still drool every time I turn on my Focus
The Gate Keeper said:
the thing that doesn't impress me about the hardware for webOS is how they still use such a low resolution. that would of been the first thing i would have improved on those devices...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not true after today. The only phone that has the old low resolution is the Veer but since it's on such a small screen it actually increases the overall ppi. The new Pre 3 has a 800x480 screen and the new Touchpad has 1024x768.

If CES 2011 didn't give you enough hints, here it is:
MS Tablet = Windows 8 running on Arm-based SoC demonstrated at CES.

My expectation is we'll see Windows Phone, tablets running Windows 8 on ARM, and Xbox all running Silverlight and a metro-like interface. You can already begin to see some synergy between Windows Phone and Windows tablets by looking at recent applications like Flickr and Mosaic.
There is a good chance that as the tablet matures, they will be less gadget and more laptop/desktop replacement. I honestly don't know if something like iOS is going to do a good job with that.

foxbat121 said:
If CES 2011 didn't give you enough hints, here it is:
MS Tablet = Windows 8 running on Arm-based SoC demonstrated at CES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I'm hoping for and it seems pretty obvious that's where MS is headed.
But I'm still worried about the touch experience of the major competing tablets versus Windows. I'm really praying that MS introduces a Windows 8 that scales to whatever platform its on--for example you'd see a complex and traditional looking Windows on your desktop PC but if you had Windows 8 on your tablet it would have a Metro-based UI like WP7.
PG2G said:
My expectation is we'll see Windows Phone, tablets running Windows 8 on ARM, and Xbox all running Silverlight and a metro-like interface. You can already begin to see some synergy between Windows Phone and Windows tablets by looking at recent applications like Flickr and Mosaic.
There is a good chance that as the tablet matures, they will be less gadget and more laptop/desktop replacement. I honestly don't know if something like iOS is going to do a good job with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with your first point completely and that is definitely the direction MS needs to go.
You're also right about iOS. I own an iPad and despite being pretty powerful it also looks downright primitive compared to Android 3.0, Rim's QNX, and WebOS 3.0. But tablets honestly make a lot of sense as a laptop or at least a netbook replacement--it's easier to use, almost instant-on, and an overall more entertaining experience.

OGCF said:
It just hit me after today's HP WebOS event that Microsoft is the last big competitor without a real tablet OS (that isn't a thrown-together Windows 7).
....
A couple of months ago, people kept saying Microsoft needs to make WP7 for tablets right that moment. I didn't believe them back then but now I think Microsoft is seriously in trouble. Tablets are going to cannibalize laptop/netbook sales soon and one of the top PC manufacturers, HP, is even pushing WebOS on to laptops later this year. Unless they have an ace up their sleeve with Windows 8 and cross-compatibility with WP7, I am beginning to worry about the long term plan here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MS may be doing the right thing in using their desktop OS as the tablet platform instead of WP7. This will inherently make their tablets more powerful with the largest ecosystem (Windows). I think we'll have to wait and see what's in store for Windows 8 to see how it works out. MS has been doing tablets far longer than the other's. They just never got the UE together in the way Apple did. Push come to shove, they can make an emulator to run WP7 apps on the Windows 8 tablet

WhyBe said:
MS may be doing the right thing in using their desktop OS as the tablet platform instead of WP7. This will inherently make their tablets more powerful with the largest ecosystem (Windows). I think we'll have to wait and see what's in store for Windows 8 to see how it works out. MS has been doing tablets far longer than the other's. They just never got the UE together in the way Apple did. Push come to shove, they can make an emulator to run WP7 apps on the Windows 8 tablet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, their tablets should theoretically be more powerful. But I don't want my shiny new Windows-powered tablet to only last 4 hours on a charge and I especially don't want to deal with all of the Windows programs that all look and function differently. The result is a completely inconsistent experience. I love Windows 7 as a desktop OS, but I don't think I could stand it on a tablet.
And just because Microsoft has been making tablets for longer than anyone else doesn't exactly mean they did a good job. Apple showed them that and now everyone is scrambling to come out with a competitor and--surprise surprise--they're not running Windows 7.
I have high hopes pinned to the inevitable release of Windows 8 and if they can make the Metro UI a universal design theme that developers should stick to only then will a Windows-powered tablet be able to provide an experience as consistent as iOS.

OGCF said:
I have high hopes pinned to the inevitable release of Windows 8 and if they can make the Metro UI a universal design theme that developers should stick to only then will a Windows-powered tablet be able to provide an experience as consistent as iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A windows 8 tablet that could run WP7 apps would be the best solution and not at all impossible.
But if MS delivers on the UE and UI enhancements purported for Windows 8, there probably will be little need for WP7 apps. I'm guessing power consumption would improve with the newer mobile chipsets and OS enhancements.

OGCF said:
It just hit me after today's HP WebOS event that Microsoft is the last big competitor without a real tablet OS (that isn't a thrown-together Windows 7).
Apple has the iPad with iOS.
RIM has the Playbook with QNX.
Google has the Xoom/G-Slate and more with Android 3.0
HP (formerly Palm) has the Touchpad with WebOS 3.0
I know everyone has been on Microsoft's case for tablets, but now they should be really panicking. I'm not sure it's enough to just have WP7 on smartphones anymore if it wants to build a competing ecosystem. The most frustrating part of all of this is that Microsoft really has nailed it better than the rest of these with really deep multimedia features from Zune, Xbox Live services, and a genuinely unique UI.
A couple of months ago, people kept saying Microsoft needs to make WP7 for tablets right that moment. I didn't believe them back then but now I think Microsoft is seriously in trouble. Tablets are going to cannibalize laptop/netbook sales soon and one of the top PC manufacturers, HP, is even pushing WebOS on to laptops later this year. Unless they have an ace up their sleeve with Windows 8 and cross-compatibility with WP7, I am beginning to worry about the long term plan here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I consider Win7 to be the perfect tablet OS. I would rather use Win7 on any tablet than any of the tablet-specific OS currently available, even the iPad's iOS. In fact, it is one reason I'm considering a netbook, because of Win7. The way I look at it, a netbook, to me, is a supercharged tablet with a physical keyboard....lack of touchscreen, no consequence.

put on a physical keyboard and Win7 becomes usable. For a proper touchscreen tablet I think Win7 (or any Win for that matter) really blows. Not touch friendly at all.
I have 2 Android tablets and 1 Win7 tablet. The Win7 tablet is a 10.2" capacitive. If I need to do something Win specific then I use the Win tablet, otherwise Android is first choice. If MS could give Win7 a touch friendly UI they would have a winner IMO.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk

I've got an HP TM2 which is basically is a laptop with a touchscreen. The screen turns through 180 degrees and folds flat over the keyboard and turns the machine into a Windows 7 tablet.
I bought it to see how much I would use it as a tablet, compared to how much I'd use it as a normal laptop.
My conclusion after several months is that I use it as a laptop 90% of the time. The main reasons for this are;
1) As a tablet you have to hold it, or rest it against something. In laptop mode I just place it on a table or my lap and I have both hands free for typing, and I can still use the touchscreen.
2) Typing anything on a touchscreen is a pain - you have to grasp the machine with one hand and type with the other, or find a way to prop it up on something if you want to use two fingers. Frankly it's a pain and I always ended up swapping back to laptop mode and using the hardware keyboard
In conclusion I don't personally rate tablets at all - like netbooks I think they're a fad that we will eventually get over and go back to laptops.
I for one will stick with my TM2 - I do like being able to use the touchscreen aspects of Windows 7 and occasionally flip it into tablet mode if the whim takes me, but tablet mode in no way replaces the laptop mode. Just no way.
An iPad would drive me mad!

I've been using WP7 on my HD7 since October.
On an almost daily basis, I think to myself that this OS would be magnificent on a larger (7 or 10 inch screen), with panaramas expanded out to a widescreen format.
With WP7, the lines are so clean and the text so large and clear that it seems ideal for a tablet. App developers would not need to dramatically re-engineer their apps for the different resolution. WP7, as a platform, does not require dual processors, TEGRA and all of that, so they could easily build a light and long-battery-life tablet with WP7 as the platform.
I would imagine there is major friction at MS regarding the future of MS tablets; the Windows team want to see Windows 7 (or some flavour of it) running on a tablet, whereas I'm sure the WP7 team can see the immediate advantages of upscaling WP7 to a tablet OS (finger-friendly out of the box, app store already established etc.
To be perfectly honest, I couldn't see myself enjoying Windows 7 on a tablet. Installing apps, arsing around with disk cleanup every few months, constantly installing Windows Updates, dealing with legacy apps specifically designed for a mouse and definitely not a finger... would totally take the fun out of a tablet. WP7 is fun! Put that on a tablet! Think of the following apps, modified slightly to take advantage of the widescreen format, running on a WP7 tablet:
Netflix
Cocktail Flow
Amazon Kindle Reader
IMDB app
Twitter
Facebook
Flickr from Yahoo
Pictures app
Messaging
Microsoft seriously seem to be missing a trick here.

the actual reason windows phone apps would work so well on tablets is because it is silverlight. and silverlight was initially designed for a desktop, meaning it was designed with varied resolution in mind. then it was ported to the phone, so really silverlight is the ideal solution for any screen size, big or small.

Microsoft has been doing tablets for 10 years. They just never really tweaked it for touch friendliness. Plus they've been expensive as hell.
This stuff is old to Microsoft , but somehow they seem to be playing catch up as usual.

Windows running on ARM sounds interesting in theory, but what about applications? Adobe will have to release Photoshop for ARM as well if you want to use it there.
And if it will be limited to managed code (Silverlight/XNA/whatever/.Net) then there's no point in having the "big" version there.

There are enough tablets on this planet already. We don't need more, it's not a big deal if MS does not have a tablet. MS has a lot of things most of its competitors don't have and they are not crying about it. God

Why Windows Phone 7 doesn't desperately need more powerful devices this year

I take no credit for this, ita a great article i came across that made the most sense in a while related to hardware :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...erately-need-more-powerful-devices-this-year/
As you have probably already noticed I was at Mobile World Congress this week so I had the opportunity to play around with some of the latest and most powerful handsets ever created. This year was obviously dominated by Google’s Android platform which took center stage at the convention with essentially every OEMs demonstrating or unveiling products running the immensely successful OS. What does it have to do with Windows Phone 7 hardware ? Well if there’s one thing that really garbed my attention it is the fact that not a single Android device I played with was as snappy and smooth as the Samsung Omnia 7 device I had in my pocket (or any iPhone model). Yes some of the devices on display were running non finalized software and probably hardware too but this has already been the case with retail devices like the Galaxy S and Desire HD which feature more powerful hardware than all the currently released WP7 devices.
I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: Android is the new Windows Mobile. OEMs want to differentiate their the products and one of the best way to do this is to use the latest and greatest chipsets, screen technology or other fancy hardware components. But as an end user, why should I care about the newest Exynos 4210, TI OMAP 4430, Tegra 2 if it can’t provide me with the same user experience as the now nearly 3 years old QSD8250 found in my Windows Phone 7 device? Similar to the old Windows Mobile days; OEMs are using Android’s “openness” as a test bed for their new CPUs and chipsets and are pumping out devices with crazy hardware specifications to show themselves in the press and sell device purely based on check list features: Dual-Core CPU ? Check. XX Mpix camera ? Check. 3D Cameras? Check. Huge Screen? Check etc. The issue here is that device manufacturers are more interested in time to market so optimizing the software to work with the hardware is just an afterthought. It’s not Google’s job to code the driver for the Samsung Exynos or for TI’s OMAP4. Google doesn’t even want to get the browser to use GPU acceleration for smoother scrolling and panning so the device manufacturers shouldn’t even count on the big G to give them any kind meaningful help in this department (Samsung has apparently implemented GPU acceleration to the browser in some unreleased Galaxy S firmware builds).
HTC has apparently learned the lesson a long time ago and has instead decided to milk the same SoC for while and instead just improve it’s Sense software layer every time it releases a new batch of devices. The end user is in both cases being presented with less than optimal solutions / offerings: On one hand you have new hardware that goes totally unused (Samsung, LG) and on the other you are buying exactly the same hardware but with an updated software layer (HTC).
Now let’s go back to Windows Phone 7 for minute. Take a Google Nexus One/ HTC Desire and compare it to the similarly speced WP7 devices. Which one is the snappiest and offers the smoothest UX? Same for the HTC HD2 running WM6.5 compared to the same device running Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has several big advantage with WP7 compared to Android. First, the have enforced strict HW guidelines and are currently only supporting Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoCs and their Adreno GPUs. Secondly the Adreno GPUs are closely related to the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox360 so the company was already quite a bit familiar with architecture. Thirdly they control the APIs (Direct3D Mobile through DXGI and probably Direct2D for IE9 Mobile) unlike Android which relies on OpenGL ES and the drivers developed by the chipset manufacturers. The Windows Phone 7 ecosystem is like a console ecosystem with one set of drivers and APIs all controlled and certified by Microsoft while Android is more like a PC ecosystem filled with tons of different hardware configurations, driver versions controlled by nobody (Qualcomm even told me that OEMs don’t really bother including the latest drivers in the devices just because they are more concerned by the shipping date of the handset than with the end user experience. For example, as of right now the SE Xperia Play is the Android handset that has the latest Adreno 205 drivers).
Who would have thought that Microsoft would be able to easily port IE9 (which requires a DX10 GPU on the desktop) to Windows Phone 7 which only runs on a relatively old Adreno 200 GPU (DX9 capable) ins such a short time? Now take a look at the current state of the Webkit on Android: Yes it’s blazing fast at loading web pages on those super powerful handsets but after that the UX is simply anticlimactic because of the lack of HW acceleration. This is supposed to be fixed in Honeycomb on the tablets right? But where’s the smartphone version? From what I have seen at MWC the touch responsiveness of the Android 3.0 tablets varies greatly from one device maker to another. So once again Google’s lack of control of the hardware and drivers is going to hurt the end user.
This is not to say that Windows Phone 7 should be stuck with the current QSD8250. New high-end WP7 devices are going to be announced later this year because technology evolves at a rapid pace and Microsoft will obviously want to support higher resolution screens and video formats (and yes they are working on new Chassis but the Nokia partnership which was decided only last Thursday changed some of the plans), more graphically intensive 3D games and applications but the point here is that they are in no rush to do this because they can squeeze a lot more out of the first generation Snapdragon SoC than what is possible with Android. Everything I just said so far also applies to Apple’s iPhone which is quite similar to Windows Phone 7 and I personally think that there’s no need for Apple to switch to a dual-core SoC for the upcoming iPhone 5 given that the A4 is still powerful enough for 99% of the tasks (but if they do then you can be sure that they will have the software to take advantage of it). Android is obviously a really great OS that I enjoy using it on a daily basis thanks to all the features it supports but Google should really stop the madness and take over control of what should or shouldn’t be done on the platform. OEMs are loving it right now because they are free to do whatever they see fit but I really think that it will hurt the platform in the long run when people start to realise that they paying for hardware that most of the time isn’t used all or just paying for a software update (HTC..).
What Windows Phone 7 is in desperate need of is software updates filled with differentiating features and thrid-party access to more APIs so they developers can create more exciting and advanced applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Discuss...

Pretty much the facts.... I mean that is just an astounding article... spot on.

As an Android user who is otherwise impartial to OS wars, I wholeheartedly agree. For months now, I've been telling people that Android reminds me of the old Windows Mobile. Every WM7 device I have ever played with has exhibited exemplary smoothness and snappyness compared to any Android handset you care to name. It's a shame because Android is really good otherwise.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

IMO, although it would be nice to have, WP7 doesnt have to go overboard like Android is doing when it comes to specs as to dual core cpu's, 3d displays and such. I believe that they should improve hardware based on features such as front facing camera to add video chat functinality, perhaps a video output via 3.5mm jack (since requiring hdmi might be pushing it a little across all oem's) etc.
Im positive that if they bump up the cpu to support at least second gen snapdragon with its 45nm architecture, improved 205 Adreno GPU and much faster clock per clock compared to first gen, i have no doubt that besides the inmensly graphical stressing situations, WP7 would run circles round any dual core Android device since it being used to its full potential and proper optimization and drivers makes it not have a elephant on its back to carry

I think it is a given that we will eventually see more powerful Qualcomm SoCs show up in WP7 devices, and possibly other manufacturers' SoCs. This generation might become the "budget" chassis in 2012...Who knows?
What I do like, and want it to remain the same, is the fact that Microsoft needs to certify whatever hardware specs is used, so when updates are pushed out, Microsoft wouldn't need to run to each manufacturer and ask for drivers...

I'm sold where can I buy one? I kid, I kid. I have a Focus.
One thing is for sure, the overall opinion of the phone UI is excellent for all the listed reasons. Thanks for the post.
I compare this current experience to my experience with Windows 7 rc. Much like the day I installed Windows 7 to my lowly Dual Core (e2150, 2gb, 7200 HDD), it was good but not great in terms of speed, quick but not fast. Then, the cycle moved on and new hardware at low prices came into my life...
Now at Quad Core, 8 gb, Dual GPU, SSD, it is like driving a Buggati Veyron, downhill, on a 5 lane speedway, with no traffic. Life is instantaneous, the only limit...my ability to click as fast as it acts. ha! It happens as if I had on a thinking helmet and it sucked the idea out of my head!
I can only imagine wp7 on the set of phones that will come out...8 months...1 to 2 years from today...oh yeaaaaaa
close your eyes, think about it. Did you think about it? Think again, that's right. Amazing.
Wasn't that nice? Ahhhh yeaaaaaa
With dual core and a 2x faster GPU...oh my...it will get smoother and faster...hard to imagine and exciting at the same time. :splooge:
All in due time, I am happy with my phone today and happily have put my development time into other projects and not Wm6.5. Like this one from Johnny http://hackaday.com/2011/02/09/low-cost-video-chat-robot/

The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS

I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.

They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.

Reflexx1 said:
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.

Yeah but is it partially due to room? I mean, Sense ROMs running slower than the cleaned up and simpler AOSP ROMs? I get the lack of acceleration ... a d understand the end result and why people might complain ... but my phone is snappy even though at times I notice slow down .. but that is hardly reason to ignore stability updates, even others. I mean , while my phone might be running smooth here ... it may slow down there. I see the choppy scroll .. but I've seen friends WP7 - uh, phones? - slow down at times too.
I get sick of this WP7 is constantly butter because its not. More often than not? Sure. But I rarely get agitated at the speed of mu device and most don't either ... sure I can see it, but I've also seen my.phone jump as much as my friends WP7 devices. It all depends. Overall, sure ... but it still doesnt touch iOS. To think you are major steps ahead is hype. More overhead here .... lack of acceleration here ... it's not shocking when you think about it. Android uses more resources and overhead ... you have such q standardized system. Its almost not surprising. And it's NOT suggestive of you being "good" at the moment.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

That's a great article. I agree 100%. I had a Samsung Galaxy S and with it's freshest time it had the most powerful chips int the markets, but even today it is not lag free, because of crappy Samsung optimizations to the software. That's why I really don't believe the new Galaxy S II will be any better with it's dual core. You could see it from the videos, that it's laggy at the moment and I don't believe Samsung will get it lag free ever.

fast hardware = bad ?
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.

N8ter said:
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is 512+ RAM important, I was thing about getting the HTC 7 Pro, which only has 448 RAM and also is 16gb necessary if I don't use my phone as a media player as HTC 7 Pro only has 8gb as well?

Beesneazy, you're either completely full of crap or just delusional. I mean wow. Android fanboyism at its ugliest. Yeesh.
Ohgood, did you read the article? If you did, perhaps it's time to go back to Hooked on Phonics to work on word comprehension...
Anyhow, on topic, I completely agree with the article posted by OP. Kiddies like these Android fanboys love to deny the truth but it is what it is. Did everyone really think Microsoft would just sit back and be pummeled in the mobile phone market forever? With the right moves in the future WP7 will be huge. Maybe knock Android back down to third or fourth place and setup a head to head with iOS...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

ohgood said:
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, and when you get your quad core phones that are still lagging, and still dont recieve the latest updates, and are still running a version of android that is essentially a pallet swap of 2.1 and still looks like a low end iphone we'll be happy with our maybe dual or maybe quad-core phones that run smoother, have better games (because aside from iphone ports and maybe 1-2 other games androids selection is just terrible), have a decent media player, have oustanding integration with business and personal matters, and we'll actually have a NEW OS not just an overhyped pallet swap of the previous version.

Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.

N8ter said:
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what you're attempting to address when you quoted me. I never mentioned changing the minimum specs of WP7.
And I think it's pretty much guaranteed that WP8 will have a completely different set of minimum specs. Do you expect it to never change?

vetvito said:
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! I agree they don't need more powerful devices but they do need more appealing hardware (for a start a 32GB device would do no harm).
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sad but true. WP7 is quite late and if you think about it the real launch will be with Nokia, I doubt they'll sell anything before that as nothing has changed since October.

vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is true only because the majority of cellphone owners are complete morons.

Nokia Windows Phone 8 Handsets Showing Up On Verizon & T-Mobile

Moving away from the hubbub about Windows Phone 8 upgrades, we now also have increasing evidence of actual new Windows Phone 8 hardware being tested in the wild.
The latest is via DSLReport’s mobile speed test, which shows the user agent of two Windows Phone 8 handsets, one named Qualcomm Fluid and the other Nokia Fluid. Both of course have been spotted before, but now the full user agent confirms that these are Windows Phone 8 handsets running IE10.
The Verizon handset also seems pretty snappy, likely indicating LTE on board. The same can unfortunately not be said for the T-Mobile speed test.image
Of note is that we are seeing windows phone 8 handsets on the same networks in our own server logs, with screen resolutions of 768×768 and 480×480. Also of note is most of our Windows Phone 8 traffic not coming from Microsoft is coming from AT&T. So far nothing from Sprint however.
The relevant pages can be seen in Google’s cache here and here (13th April), but may of course disappear soon.
Nokia Windows Phone 8 handsets showing up on T-Mobile, Verizon | WMPoweruser
this sh-t gonna be a game changer rip iphone and android

they can`t come soon enough
and Windows 8 should bring all the missing features like dual-core and sdcard
Windows phones are faster than Android phones with the same SoC, i can`t wait for a dual-core Windows phone

deadwrong03 said:
Moving away from the hubbub about Windows Phone 8 upgrades, we now also have increasing evidence of actual new Windows Phone 8 hardware being tested in the wild.
The latest is via DSLReport’s mobile speed test, which shows the user agent of two Windows Phone 8 handsets, one named Qualcomm Fluid and the other Nokia Fluid. Both of course have been spotted before, but now the full user agent confirms that these are Windows Phone 8 handsets running IE10.
The Verizon handset also seems pretty snappy, likely indicating LTE on board. The same can unfortunately not be said for the T-Mobile speed test.image
Of note is that we are seeing windows phone 8 handsets on the same networks in our own server logs, with screen resolutions of 768×768 and 480×480. Also of note is most of our Windows Phone 8 traffic not coming from Microsoft is coming from AT&T. So far nothing from Sprint however.
The relevant pages can be seen in Google’s cache here and here (13th April), but may of course disappear soon.
Nokia Windows Phone 8 handsets showing up on T-Mobile, Verizon | WMPoweruser
this sh-t gonna be a game changer rip iphone and android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seen this yet? Its from 2010.
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...neral-parade-for/&category=classic&postPage=1

Derzis said:
they can`t come soon enough
and Windows 8 should bring all the missing features like dual-core and sdcard
Windows phones are faster than Android phones with the same SoC, i can`t wait for a dual-core Windows phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again and again. Go get an Android phone then. Enjoy. Windows doesn't need a SD Card or a Dual / Quad Core. Stop getting into pissing contests and enjoy the OS for what it is and what it can do. These aren't "missing" features.

bmstrong said:
Again and again. Go get an Android phone then. Enjoy. Windows doesn't need a SD Card or a Dual / Quad Core. Stop getting into pissing contests and enjoy the OS for what it is and what it can do. These aren't "missing" features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
microsoft said themselves those "features" are coming