Hey guys, came across this great article about jelly bean and I wonder what you guys think about it. I really agree with some of the points he makes.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/09/18/ux-things-i-hate-about-android/
Read this article as well and yes he does make some good and valid points. However, Android is still a work in progress according to Matias Duarte. As much as Jelly Bean has improved the user experience there is still a ways to go to polishing the OS.
Here is a good follow up article you might want to check out:
http://www.androidcentral.com/duarte-i-m-third-way-where-i-want-be-android
He makes some good points, but also shows that he doesn't seem to understand Android programming at all.
If you open something within an app directly from a widget (his Gmail example), then obviously the back key would go one layer higher within the app. Opening an email from a widget layers home->gmail->email, not home->email.
Also, icons opening the "wrong" app. He uses Maps and Latitude as an example. Well, considering that Latitude is built on the Maps framework (and presumably calls an instance of Maps in order to operate), it makes complete sense that opening Maps would open the active Latitude session when one exists.
Other items just seemed like whining. For example, the section regarding the Google Voice icon. He makes the base assumption that people use it primarily for texting when texting is certainly not the primary function of the app. The app's primary function is voicemail, followed closely by VOIP calling. Texting is easily a tertiary function, even if it has been embraced by the community. [Edit: As mentioned below, I was incorrect regarding VOIP, which would make texting the secondary function of the app.]
Don't get me wrong. There were some good points, but I was shaking my head through a lot of that article.
Cilraaz said:
The app's primary function is voicemail, followed closely by VOIP calling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is no voip from the google voice app itself. when you make a call with it, it basically calls the GV number + the number you are actually wanting to call.
Zepius said:
there is no voip from the google voice app itself. when you make a call with it, it basically calls the GV number + the number you are actually wanting to call.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My mistake. I assumed it was VOIP rather than call-chaining, based on the app prompting if Voice should be used for international calls. So at that point, texting would become the secondary function.
Thanks for the info.
Cilraaz said:
He makes some good points, but also shows that he doesn't seem to understand Android programming at all.
If you open something within an app directly from a widget (his Gmail example), then obviously the back key would go one layer higher within the app. Opening an email from a widget layers home->gmail->email, not home->email.
Also, icons opening the "wrong" app. He uses Maps and Latitude as an example. Well, considering that Latitude is built on the Maps framework (and presumably calls an instance of Maps in order to operate), it makes complete sense that opening Maps would open the active Latitude session when one exists.
Other items just seemed like whining. For example, the section regarding the Google Voice icon. He makes the base assumption that people use it primarily for texting when texting is certainly not the primary function of the app. The app's primary function is voicemail, followed closely by VOIP calling. Texting is easily a tertiary function, even if it has been embraced by the community.
Don't get me wrong. There were some good points, but I was shaking my head through a lot of that article.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although you are totally right, you have to look at it from a consumer's point of view. And they won't think "hey, of course the back button goes to the underlying Gmail menu", they'll think "wtf.? I was on the home screen before I tapped that mail on the widget. Why did it take me into the Gmail overview now?"
The same is even more true for Latitude. It is obvious for us tech-enthusiasts that Latitude is just more or less a part of maps. But I guess most other people never even give a thought to this, so they're just confused why the Maps icon would open a (seemingly) completely different service.
Also I'm sure the author of the article knows all this as well as anybody. But he tries to look from the consumer's point of view.
To the article: I mostly agree with his points. Play store not remembering my scroll position and the different sizes of some icons (and even more the almost overlapping icon names sometimes) are things that bugged me too. But mixed UI designs and that calculator bug are just things that happen if you roll out such a major update with significant UI changes. It's nothing I get even slightly mad about.
qwer23 said:
Although you are totally right, you have to look at it from a consumer's point of view. And they won't think "hey, of course the back button goes to the underlying Gmail menu", they'll think "wtf.? I was on the home screen before I tapped that mail on the widget. Why did it take me into the Gmail overview now?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can understand it from a consumer's point of view, but how would it be resolved programmatically? If we start requiring a pointer to where a screen was opened from, you increase the memory footprint of every app. It might also cause some problems with app deconstruction. In the Gmail example, pressing the back button deconstructs the single email instance, but if a pointer were to tell it to go back to the home screen because we got to it from a widget, do we deconstruct the base Gmail app also? What if the widget puts you 4 layers into an app? Not only would the pointers again add to the app's memory footprint, but we have the deconstruction issue on a larger level.
I'm not the greatest programmer (especially in Java), but the "inelegant" way that it works now seems to have a few positives for both devs and users.
qwer23 said:
The same is even more true for Latitude. It is obvious for us tech-enthusiasts that Latitude is just more or less a part of maps. But I guess most other people never even give a thought to this, so they're just confused why the Maps icon would open a (seemingly) completely different service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand the consumer side of things, but is Maps opening Latitude more confusing than having Maps kill off Latitude? The user would then just try to re-open Latitude and be confused as to why the prior instance wasn't running. If Maps wouldn't kill off Latitude, then it would have to create a second instance of itself, which again has a negative impact on the app's memory footprint.
------------
I understand a general "hey, it should work like this instead", but there are plenty of reasons why it works the way it does now. Android might be able to get "perfect" functionality, but it would likely require some dumbing down of multitasking (either more process suspension instead of true(r) multitasking or the memory manager would be more likely to kill off background processes). I don't at all doubt these are discussions going on at Google, though.
Cilraaz said:
[...]
I understand a general "hey, it should work like this instead", but there are plenty of reasons why it works the way it does now. Android might be able to get "perfect" functionality, but it would likely require some dumbing down of multitasking (either more process suspension instead of true(r) multitasking or the memory manager would be more likely to kill off background processes). I don't at all doubt these are discussions going on at Google, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Cilraaz, you really shed some light upon the deeper reasons for the sometimes odd behaviour of the back button and app layers. I'm no programmer at all, so I didn't know all this would add to the memory footprint of the apps and would affect developing in such a major way.
After reading your post I suggest we can be happy with some minor incosistencies and enjoy true multitasking instead of dumbing down our phones Again thanks for your nice clarification!
Some good stuff in this thread.
"complains about back button not taking him home, doesn't use home button"
crixley said:
"complains about back button not taking him home, doesn't use home button"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not what he complained about. He complained about the back button behaving inconsistently.
I find it actually works very logically. If i click on one email in my widget to read it and then use the back button to go back, it makes sense to be taken to my inbox so i can read more messages, instead of being taken back to home screen and selecting a new email from there. Its more practical in case you get like 10 emails at one, which won´t fit in the widget all at once anyway. If i wanted to go back to the home screen, hey there is the home button.
That sounds like one corner case where the behaviour works in your favor, that doesn't mean it's right. It used to work better. For example if you have Navigation open, and select and email from the notification then you are brought to the email. Then when you hit back it brings you to your Inbox (which you have no reason to go to) then when you hit back again it brings you to your home screen. In previous versions of Android when you hit back from the email you are reading it would take you directly back to Navigation. That is what you most likely want, and that is what the Android documentation says should happen. But all too often it does not.
Totally agree with this article. I love Jelly Bean, and Android, but ultimately, it lacks a hell of a lot of polish. This is where iOS is still leagues ahead (and for that matter, so is WP7/8), I forgive it because it is a very open and powerful platform, but it is still a platform for the techie, and has a long way to go before it is as friendly and approachable as its rivals IMO.
The same sorts of arguments have been leveled at PCs for years and are equally valid.
Like it or not, most people AREN'T techies and this is why the likes of Apple are so successful, because they understand this and bring out an OS that is generally intuitive to average joe. Ironically I find some of the ways their software works confusing in places (particularly OSX) but that is more down to my "techie" approach and being set in my ways, as most techies are.
Well, he has some valid ponts, but most of the time, he is wrong. Especially for the back button.
e34v8 said:
Well, he has some valid ponts, but most of the time, he is wrong. Especially for the back button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you please tell me how he is wrong, specially if Android documentation says that the function of back button is X, and, sometimes you get Y, sometimes you get Z, and sometimes you get X?
Either document that back button has a bunch of functions that no one knows until you use it in a given context with a given app, or, give it a consistent behavior (and I'm not discussing which one would be better).... It is understandable when 3rd party software doesn't behave 100% as documented, but, built in phone apps should be consistent and provide the same experience...
Great article. A lot of those things drive me nuts, the icon size and back button in particular.
Another annoying thing the back button does is, for example, if you have been using the Play Store before, then you open an app that links to a Play Store page. Once you have seen the page and press back, rather than it taking you back to the app, the back button will just traverse through all the pages that you have been looking at on the Play Store in your previous session.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
crixley said:
"complains about back button not taking him home, doesn't use home button"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I found that amusing as well.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
pfmiller said:
That sounds like one corner case where the behaviour works in your favor, that doesn't mean it's right. It used to work better. For example if you have Navigation open, and select and email from the notification then you are brought to the email. Then when you hit back it brings you to your Inbox (which you have no reason to go to) then when you hit back again it brings you to your home screen. In previous versions of Android when you hit back from the email you are reading it would take you directly back to Navigation. That is what you most likely want, and that is what the Android documentation says should happen. But all too often it does not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the "back" button should be replaced by a "higher level" (hope it's the right term ) button. Maybe in this case his function would be more logical.
However I agree on almost every point in the article
Related
Hello guys,
yesterday I used the Samsung Memo to write a few phone numbers down, I was going to call them all later and didnt want to create new contacts for these people, so copied the first number, pressed home button, went to the phone app pasted the number and dialed. Good.
then I used the hold pressing the home button and flipped over to the memo app again. A BLANK PAGE greeted me... ie, there was no multitasking, the app cleared itself when I returned to home via the home button.
so how is this (NON) multitasking better than my wife's iphone?
hmmm, perhaps not?
livegod said:
Hello guys,
yesterday I used the Samsung Memo to write a few phone numbers down, I was going to call them all later and didnt want to create new contacts for these people, so copied the first number, pressed home button, went to the phone app pasted the number and dialled. Good.
then I used the hold pressing the home button and flipped over to the memo app again. A BLANK PAGE greeted me... ie, there was no multitasking, the app cleared itself when I retuned to home via the home button.
so how is this (NON) multitasking better than my wife's iphone?
hmmm, perhaps not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you go back by home or back button?
And please, this is not a dev topic...
livegod said:
Hello guys,
yesterday I used the Samsung Memo to write a few phone numbers down, I was going to call them all later and didnt want to create new contacts for these people, so copied the first number, pressed home button, went to the phone app pasted the number and dialled. Good.
then I used the hold pressing the home button and flipped over to the memo app again. A BLANK PAGE greeted me... ie, there was no multitasking, the app cleared itself when I retuned to home via the home button.
so how is this (NON) multitasking better than my wife's iphone?
hmmm, perhaps not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong forum. Shoo!
I'll answer your question though: The Samsung apps are not well made. Search the market for 'notes' and use a better one. Just because the app is included, doesn't mean it's any good. The market is there for a reason - in fact, it's the whole point of Android.
EDIT:
Did you go back by home or back button?
And please, this is not a dev topic...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use either with the memo app, it will lose whatever was there when you come back.
RyanZA said:
Wrong forum. Shoo!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oops, wrong forum, sorry, I had two tabs open on the browser and created a new topic in the wrong one...
so would it follow that android does not natively multitask, like ANY app in windows would keep your info if you Alt-Tabbed to another app then back again? it seems that APPS have to be written for multitasking as much as iOS ones do.
tx for other app tip, will check it out.
Mark.
Android has no problem with multitask, in fact, it has the better multitask-system that could exists (maybe the WebOS is better...).
When you develop an application for android, you have to choose what happens when the user press the "Home" button. Usually, developers chooses to backup the state of the application for the next launch (= multitask without memory usage).
But Samsung, for the Memo app, just choosed to... close definitely the App. That's all
But there is a lot of "Memo-like" apps in the market (for free) wich doesn't have this issue.
(excuse my english)
pocketjpaul said:
Android has no problem with multitask, in fact, it has the better multitask-system that could exists (maybe the WebOS is better...).
When you develop an application for android, you have to choose what happens when the user press the "Home" button. Usually, developers chooses to backup the state of the application for the next launch (= multitask without memory usage).
But Samsung, for the Memo app, just choosed to... close definitely the App. That's all
But there is a lot of "Memo-like" apps in the market (for free) wich doesn't have this issue.
(excuse my english)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
meego multitask-system is WAY better than the android one (real multitasking).
and symbian's too is pretty good (real multitasking).
I hate both android and iphone fake multitasking.
RyanZA said:
Wrong forum. Shoo!
I'll answer your question though: The Samsung apps are not well made. Search the market for 'notes' and use a better one. Just because the app is included, doesn't mean it's any good. The market is there for a reason - in fact, it's the whole point of Android.
EDIT:
You can use either with the memo app, it will lose whatever was there when you come back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can go back to memo and not lose it.
Op Learn how to use the phone. Then complain. Can your wifes I phone run run widgets? Customize the home screen? Change icons? Change launcher and lockscreen? Can you bind secondary functions to hardware buttons and soft keys to navigate to common functions faster? Do the notification interfere with what you are in the middle of? Is it dlna certified? Can it text to contact groups? Run google voice and transcribe your voicemail to text? Does it take panoramic photos? Play windows media? Does it take ota updates? I can go on....
The old iphone's lack of multitasking helped to idiot proof it and save battery which is what some people need. the idea of multitasking in ios 4 scares me. Ask those simple people that have no need for a smart phone other than its trendyness trying to do two things at once!
Android takes getting used to. It doesn't do anything for you, you are in control and that can be its strength as well as weakness.
You should be able to go to the home screen during a call and re-enter the dialer from the phone icon in the tray to add contacts without affecting the ongoing call. To re-enter the call you go through the notification bar.
(call will still be active but to get to the speaker phone and touch tone contols and have the proximity sensor turn the the screen off when phone is at you ear you go through the notification bar, or maybe the long press home method but I never tried that)
Hitting the back buton exits and is a necessary evil as a way not to leave apps running but not knowing that back kills the app and home doesn't will have you saying WTF all the time.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
drowne said:
meego multitask-system is WAY better than the android one (real multitasking).
and symbian's too is pretty good (real multitasking).
I hate both android and iphone fake multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well yeah the symbian "real" multitasking is so graet that if you leave 2 apps open you can hardly make a call.
btw as mentioned before in android theres real multitasking its just up to the developer.
some apps like motonav go on running when you open another app and you can hear the voice directions.
but thank god most apps dond do so. i dont want my nfs shift to run in the background while im trying to run another game
Just the other day i was thinking of a way to implement a webos like card interface and i had an idea.
Is it possible to create a large widget showing open apps with a card like style and a screenshot of the app taken while pressing the home button?
I'm not a programmer so i am simply asking if this is possible.
Swipe to close could be another nice feature to it.
If this is possible and there is a programmer willing to try please contact me.
drowne said:
meego multitask-system is WAY better than the android one (real multitasking).
and symbian's too is pretty good (real multitasking).
I hate both android and iphone fake multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude, who lied to you by saying that android didnt have true multitasking? go back and document urself before saying such insanities here!!
drowne said:
meego multitask-system is WAY better than the android one (real multitasking).
and symbian's too is pretty good (real multitasking).
I hate both android and iphone fake multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about Meego, but Symbian multitasking is as basic as it gets. Run a couple of apps in the background, then try browsing the net in Opera Mobile. 5 Minutes later with 3 tabs open Opera has to shut down due to no memory left. Nice real multitasking
Should be better with Symbian 3, but it's still a basic system that may have to shut down apps and lose work.
I'm looking forward to Meego's release though, finally some decent competition for Android. Kinda sad that Meamo is abandoned due to it though.
There's nothing fake about Android multitasking. A developer chooses what happens to the app when the use hits the back key or home key. Usually it exits when the back key is hit, or goes to the background when the home key is hit.
Different apps may work differently, it's up to the developer to decide. If an app has to shut down due to low memory, it can save its state first so that you don't lose anything.
Can't blame Android for Samsung's crappy memo app.
Maddmatt said:
I don't know about Meego, but Symbian multitasking is as basic as it gets. Run a couple of apps in the background, then try browsing the net in Opera Mobile. 5 Minutes later with 3 tabs open Opera has to shut down due to no memory left. Nice real multitasking
Should be better with Symbian 3, but it's still a basic system that may have to shut down apps and lose work.
I'm looking forward to Meego's release though, finally some decent competition for Android. Kinda sad that Meamo is abandoned due to it though.
There's nothing fake about Android multitasking. A developer chooses what happens to the app when the use hits the back key or home key. Usually it exits when the back key is hit, or goes to the background when the home key is hit.
Different apps may work differently, it's up to the developer to decide. If an app has to shut down due to low memory, it can save its state first so that you don't lose anything.
Can't blame Android for Samsung's crappy memo app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know what you are doing but Symbian has REAL multitasking, not matter how much you don't like it. The sluggish response (in SOME phones) is a HARDWARE limitation, not the OS, that despite being old, it's a very capable OS.
Arkymedes said:
I don't know what you are doing but Symbian has REAL multitasking, not matter how much you don't like it. The sluggish response (in SOME phones) is a HARDWARE limitation, not the OS, that despite being old, it's a very capable OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And the hardware comes with the OS! What is the consumer supposed to do about that? They buy the OS and phone as a package and Nokias packages are underpowered, short on memory and as buggy as hell.
ROFLMAO!
Arkymedes said:
I don't know what you are doing but Symbian has REAL multitasking, not matter how much you don't like it. The sluggish response (in SOME phones) is a HARDWARE limitation, not the OS, that despite being old, it's a very capable OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it's real multitasking, I was just mocking how badly it handles low memory. At least with Android apps can save their state in that situation, and the app you are actually using is the last one that would be closed.
I expect Symbian 3 to improve that though.
Android mutitasking isn't any less real than the rest. It just works differently. If it goes wrong then it can generally be blamed on the app, since they have full control of what happens in various situations. Unlike Symbian where they can just get shut down without a chance to save anything.
Samsung just didn't program their memo app to save its state. Theres better apps to do the job.
Which of all these posts are related to development you say?
And now for the off-topic:
@OP: Don't get me wrong, not trying to be rude or anything, but you really don't understand yet how the phone works. If you hold the home button and switch between applications the text will be there when you go back. That's multitasking, as simple as that. If samsung's applications are crap that's another thing (which btw I agree, 42mb on apps removed from jpc and still works like crap, will try a fresh froyo build and see what happens then),
All this should be on the general section. Any mod out there willing to move this thread out of the dev forum please?
Regards
toca79 said:
Just the other day i was thinking of a way to implement a webos like card interface and i had an idea.
Is it possible to create a large widget showing open apps with a card like style and a screenshot of the app taken while pressing the home button?
I'm not a programmer so i am simply asking if this is possible.
Swipe to close could be another nice feature to it.
If this is possible and there is a programmer willing to try please contact me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is possible. You can catch draws, as well as everything else that would be needed. It would probably need a homescreen replacement.
Basic idea: catch when an app is going to background, call a draw to an offscreen buffer, then show it on the mainscreen as a screenshot. Not sure how easy any of this would be, since I've never tried to make a homescreen replacement.
Finguz said:
And the hardware comes with the OS! What is the consumer supposed to do about that? They buy the OS and phone as a package and Nokias packages are underpowered, short on memory and as buggy as hell.
ROFLMAO!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you kidding me? Did you read before posting?
By your great conclusion, so Android should have the same performance on the HTC Tattoo and the Galaxy S right?
The point is, there are different hardwares with the same OS. You cannot compare an N82 with a C7 right? sigh...
Troll .
RyanZA said:
This is possible. You can catch draws, as well as everything else that would be needed. It would probably need a homescreen replacement.
Basic idea: catch when an app is going to background, call a draw to an offscreen buffer, then show it on the mainscreen as a screenshot. Not sure how easy any of this would be, since I've never tried to make a homescreen replacement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, glad to know that my idea is doable, the only problem is that i lack the skills, and even the tools to make something like this (any suggestion appreciated).
Hope some developer likes my idea and tries to realize it
lol, this thread is very, very stupid but nevertheless i want to throw in my 5 cents:
android has real multitasking. the system however can kill an app at any time when it feels like it needs the resources, this is maybe what happened to the OP. bad work by samsung because it could have saved the state to "disk". stupid of the OP because he obviously didn't push "save". good night and good luck!
would it be possible to Reassign the search button to lets say google ?
and is there some dev that can make it happen
As far as I know it is not possible at the moment.
But I'd like to extend that question to a more general use of that button.
For me it happens rather often, that I just hit the search button without me wanting to use it. Do you think there might be the chance of deactivating that whole thing in certain applications?
For now, it's not possible (with official API) to disable the search button.
I have the feeling that this may change in future updates.
Concerning the search engine, I think I've seen a registry entry which points to Bing, it may be worth the try to change it
This will probably need to behacked in since Microsoft is really trying to push Bing theyre not going to let anyone just change it to google.
I also thought that these three buttons are mandatory for every WP7 device. Don't think that from the MS side this will change, or that they will give the option to disable this button.
Personally I don't mind having these buttons.
hmm
if i am not mistaken, search button has the capability of searching within the application when in applications. any mods to that may hamper that i guess.
No, apps aren't allowed to capture it. Even within 1st party apps it's frowned upon...
Wouldn't be surprised if they had to do similar to what they did with IE and offer other providers
I hope that Microsoft eventually allows third-party apps to trap the search button and use it within the app as long as long as its use is still search-related. At the moment, it's used by the people hub, mail, and marketplace. A second tap brings up Bing search. Third-party apps should be allowed similar functionality.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express
OR the ability to simply turn it off.. on Crackdown:Sunburst I am constantly booting myself out of the game into search and having to reboot the game.. thats VERY annoying.
cdgoin said:
OR the ability to simply turn it off.. on Crackdown:Sunburst I am constantly booting myself out of the game into search and having to reboot the game.. thats VERY annoying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sunburst is the one app I haven't seemed to hit the button in lmao, but every other game/app, search kills me. Damn my stubby thumbs.
http://blog.walshie.me/2011/01/25/forthcoming-windows-phone-update-the-bits-that-are-real/
This just in.
I don't see a major problem but here's the news for you!
Sad. If I'm reading that right, C&P won't function in the phone app...for...like...copying a phone number from one area (maybe from a browser) to the new contact input fields.
Thank you, MS, for such a ...erm...experience...with WP7
Well, you are reading it wrong. The stuff is about third party applications. It doesn't say anything about native apps, so we don't know how it will function and where.
As regards third party apps, there's nothing wrong with using a control designed for text, for, er, displaying text. That's the way it should be. Not everything should be selectable, and it isn't selectable in all OSes including "big" Windows.
MartyLK said:
Sad. If I'm reading that right, C&P won't function in the phone app...for...like...copying a phone number from one area (maybe from a browser) to the new contact input fields.
Thank you, MS, for such a ...erm...experience...with WP7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, depending on how the text is set up, you should be able to just tap a phone number in any built-in app and it will bring up the create contact section.
I read from the article that in 3rd party apps you'll be able to c&p only text from text boxes. So you can't copy twitter tweet right from the timeline.
So apparently you'll be able to c&p whatever you want from text boxes,
Plus probably other displayed content from native apps.
So I think not a huge problem here.
FishFaceMcGee said:
Well, depending on how the text is set up, you should be able to just tap a phone number in any built-in app and it will bring up the create contact section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was just, for the sake of minimizing comment, using that as an example, not as limited to. I'm more concerned with being about take information from emails or text messages or other content in a browser and being able to put it elsewhere when I need to.
I hope nobody is going to try to tell me I never have need for it...sheesh.
MartyLK said:
Was just, for the sake of minimizing comment, using that as an example, not as limited to. I'm more concerned with being about take information from emails or text messages or other content in a browser and being able to put it elsewhere when I need to.
I hope nobody is going to try to tell me I never have need for it...sheesh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fairly sure copy & paste has been shown in places like the web browser, email, and office during the demos. Don't worry so much, this article clearly states 3rd party apps.
PG2G said:
I'm fairly sure copy & paste has been shown in places like the web browser, email, and office during the demos. Don't worry so much, this article clearly states 3rd party apps.
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Cool. Appreciate the update.
MartyLK said:
I'm more concerned with being about take information from emails or text messages or other content in a browser and being able to put it elsewhere when I need to.
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Anywhere you can select text, like you can in the browser, should work. Text messages (unless they change it) you would have to go through the motions of choosing Forward from the longpress menu then select the text from the text box; a bit long-winded but doable.
If Microsoft can add the function I would imagine DEVs could also make use of it in their apps. I could be wrong.
Yeah, they're talking about how devs can modify their text fields to utilize the C&P feature when they update their apps.
Hope they actually do this...
Thanks for the post. Been waiting for this.
This, while exactly what I expected after hearing what Mr. Kindel had to say, is a downer. Now, I don't use cut'n'paste that often on phones, but when I do it's almost exclusively from non-edit controls.
I would also have expected a way to copy'n'paste images considering they see Office as such a big thing, and TBH I quite often paste product images into OneNote on the computer - which syncs perfectly to the phone. Of course you're unable to edit the photo note on the phone, but just being able to cut'n'paste them would be great still.
TBQH this looks more like a half-assed implementation done quickly to get an update out the door.
If copy-n-paste is available at API level, there is nothing to stop app developers to implement whatever they like to support the feature directly.
The limitation of text box is only a limitation when the devs are too lazy to re-complile their code.
Of course, if such feature is not available at API level, that will be a true limitation. Personally, without multi-tasking support for 3rd party apps, copy-n-paste usage will still be quite limited.
Without the tradditional stylus and resistive touch screen, try to accurately select the text you want to copy on a capacitive screen using your fingers is nothing but frustration. I tried a few times on my Android phone and never worked for me. A pen and paper is much easier to do than copy-n-paste.
foxbat121 said:
...Without the tradditional stylus and resistive touch screen, try to accurately select the text you want to copy on a capacitive screen using your fingers is nothing but frustration. I tried a few times on my Android phone and never worked for me. A pen and paper is much easier to do than copy-n-paste.
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Have you tried a WP7 device? I know we can't currently select, but the "cursor" that is implemented at the moment (useful for adding/deleting stuff in texts) is pretty good.
Casey_boy said:
Have you tried a WP7 device? I know we can't currently select, but the "cursor" that is implemented at the moment (useful for adding/deleting stuff in texts) is pretty good.
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I must say the virtual cursor on WP7 is pretty nicely implemented.
Android sucks compared to this and is a pain sometimes.
I guess you guys haven't tried 2.3 or any new samsung devices. Copy and paste, and the cursor is very finger friendly.
I have used cursor on Android 2.2. It is much better than 2.1 but still copy-n-paste largely dependent on app's implementation.
Capacity touch screens are inheritally inaccurate. Cursors make it less painful to use but can't eliminate that inaccuracy. You just got a tool to let you fine tune your selection. It still takes multiple tries to accomplish the job. And god forbid, if you want to select a paragrah out (multiple lines) of an email, that cursor won't be much help to you.
foxbat121 said:
If copy-n-paste is available at API level, there is nothing to stop app developers to implement whatever they like to support the feature directly.
The limitation of text box is only a limitation when the devs are too lazy to re-complile their code.
Of course, if such feature is not available at API level, that will be a true limitation. Personally, without multi-tasking support for 3rd party apps, copy-n-paste usage will still be quite limited.
Without the tradditional stylus and resistive touch screen, try to accurately select the text you want to copy on a capacitive screen using your fingers is nothing but frustration. I tried a few times on my Android phone and never worked for me. A pen and paper is much easier to do than copy-n-paste.
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You already could select and hold and image to save it, then go to One Note and insert it.
I remember holding the.control button on WM devices and selecting/copying multiple items. Those were the days.
Where are these rumors coming from? i've yet to read or hear anything from Microsoft that they are going to open up their os to allow multitasking for all apps. where is this news coming from? has there been anything i may have missed that confirms this multitasking rumor?
None that I'm aware of, in fact its likely that it wont be out soon considering the fact that they showed the video displaying that if an app is built properly you can return to the same screen you were on by simply clicking the back button.
z33dev33l said:
None that I'm aware of, in fact its likely that it wont be out soon considering the fact that they showed the video displaying that if an app is built properly you can return to the same screen you were on by simply clicking the back button.
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That has nothing to do with multitasking though, that's just efficient app design. Most apps have no reason to multitask (ie. run in the background while you're using another app or talking on the phone), so tombstoning is a great idea - as long as the devs take it into consideration and save all pertinant information.
The apps that do require multitasking won't be helped by tombstoning however. Consider a GPS tracker of some kind, perhaps one for tracking your daily run. This would benefit greatly from multitasking (ie. running in the background) as an incoming call or you taking a photo wouldn't affect the GPS log in any way.
The same goes for any apps that provide extra core-OS functionality, perhaps a Profile app. Not being able to have this run in the background means you can't automatically get the phone to go silent at night, or turn to vibrate during working hours, or allow notification sounds but no ringer during lunchtime - no amount of tombstoning would help here.
But I agree, I don't think we'll see multitasking yet either. Not until a major update, perhaps the rumored Mango - more likely than not delivered with a bunch of new (and powerful) devices.
when the apps tombstone do they save their position for u to resume right back to them?
deadwrong03 said:
when the apps tombstone do they save their position for u to resume right back to them?
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They can, it's up to the developers to implement it. Mine all do.
yea. i think MS may go the approach apple did and have a selected criteria for your apps to be able to multitask. in the case of tombstoning though, the game hearts is a great example. i have played it for hours on end constantly being interupted, and it automatically loads back to the game when i go back to it, and i continue on where i was at. the developer for Hearts really did understand the concept of tombstoning and really did implement it correctly.
it is possible for most apps to work just as good as multi-tasked with tombstoning. as said, it's really about the developer.
perhaps MS should provide the user with the ability to say how the app should launch (not allow the developer, but the actual user). like, if you press and hold an app you can set it so that it has "run in background" capabilities. or they can suggest this at the market place with MS approval (e.g. skype or messenger), but still provide it. apps like facebook, some people like having it always running and getting feeds, others don't. with the capability to select "run in background" it would be nice.
Yes guys, Ripley's believe it or not, no matter how irrational it may sound, but that super-responsive touch sensitive search key, a physical dedicated key on the front of your phone which hundreds of people are looking for a way to disable or stop directing to bing, which you can still use to search within MP, zune, people hub and other places.. will be turned to a shorcut to the webpage : www.bing.com .. nothing more than that.
You like it or not, microsont dosent give a damn. Remind me when they force IE and WML on Windows desktop. Deja vu.
Can't tell if trolling or not...
thekeeblerelf said:
Can't tell if trolling or not...
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Well, he has a point, the button was quite useful within some of the built in apps.
Edit: but actually it's a little more than just a shortcut - Bing Vision etc is awesome
You will have a search button in applications where relevant.
While I do miss hitting the search key to in marketplace to search, I like Bing the way it is now. Its no longer anything but a direct way to access bing and related services like bing vision, audio and local scout.
efjay said:
You will have a search button in applications where relevant.
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ehh really liked that i could use it in IE to quickly go to the google home page back in nodo, but the new bing thing is pretty cool, would still rather use google though
It was inconsistent behavior. I'm glad they changed it.
You never knew which apps would have their built-in search triggered by the search button and which ones would just let you go to Bing, which took you out of your application.
Now the search button will always go to Bing and its enhanced features like Local Scout, Bing Vision, Bing Music and of course Bing search (and voice search)
troll...
Then answer me, if they gonna do that, why the hell do they have to build up Bing Vision/ Bing Integrated System in Windows Phone and then hide it away without being used?
I know they aren't crazy enough or have much free time and pea-brain to do that.
Andrmgic said:
It was inconsistent behavior.
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This.
And as the OS becomes more popular, there were be registry changes/tweaks/etc that will allow you to change how that button operates, and where it takes you. But this implementation makes the most sense for the standard user.
Strike_Eagle said:
troll...
Then answer me, if they gonna do that, why the hell do they have to build up Bing Vision/ Bing Integrated System in Windows Phone and then hide it away without being used?
I know they aren't crazy enough or have much free time and pea-brain to do that.
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Have you ever tried bing.com search outside USA?
I am sick of that key and want to cut open my phone and disconnect all lines that goes to that button.
Being ironic isn't troll. That's true.
I prefer a SEARCH button then a BING button. Thank you.
I agree that they should give people the option to change that button to a search engine of their choice.. but I much prefer the new consistent behavior over the old guessing game until they decide to provide the option.
Just allow us to associate our Bing searches on our phones to our Bing Rewards and we will call it a wash.
its a bug, i had it too, if your search button opens ie9 @bing.com instead of the bing app then you should reinstall mango..
another ridiculous complaint. seems to be more of these threads than normal. I happen to like the Bing search button. gives me easy access to it advanced features,now if I hear a song on tv or in the wild and want to know what it is, I don't have to back out of the app im in first in order to goto it. saves alot of time. another thing I like is that if ur in IE and u highlight a word and press that button it will input that as a search term. don't see google search on Android doing anything like that. google search is going down!
You do realize that Microsoft has implanted many soft buttons to address this issue? Now the Search button behavior is always consistence.
If you don't use Bing, don't use the search button. Problem solved.
day2die said:
You do realize that Microsoft has implanted many soft buttons to address this issue? Now the Search button behavior is always consistence.
If you don't use Bing, don't use the search button. Problem solved.
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Exactly. Before Mango, you had no idea what would happen if you pressed the Search button.
Before Mango, was the search button available to 3rd party developers to use in their apps? In other words, could they listen for the button event, and then do something within the app, as opposed to just passing it on to the OS?
If so, then the new behavior is kind of disappointing, as it limits what app developers can do. If not, then it really makes no huge difference, since only core OS elements (such as the marketplace) could access the button anyway, and they probably have replaced that functionality with an in-app search button if one is needed.
No it wasn't available to developers.
RoboDad said:
Before Mango, was the search button available to 3rd party developers to use in their apps? In other words, could they listen for the button event, and then do something within the app, as opposed to just passing it on to the OS?
If so, then the new behavior is kind of disappointing, as it limits what app developers can do. If not, then it really makes no huge difference, since only core OS elements (such as the marketplace) could access the button anyway, and they probably have replaced that functionality with an in-app search button if one is needed.
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Even if developers had access to the button, it's just not consistent to have a hardware button with two different functions, depending on the app and/or situation (and with no indicator specifying which function was avaliable).