Application of Rules Liberally - About xda-developers.com

Application of Rules Liberally - About xda-developers.com

In the time that I've been here, and had several phones while here, I've noticed that moderators can sometimes use the same rules very differently. With some of my older phones (and so in those forums) I noticed that if someone 'tried to act like a moderator' they could be lobbied with an infraction pretty easily. With my current phone (and in that thread) that's not an issue - people frequently make directions based on the rules. Why is that? How can a rule be invented or ignored like that? That's two completely different reactions to the same situation.
Another issue that I've noticed is the level of tolerance in different forums for attacks on other people. In some forums, people would be shooting each other with attacking comments and dripping sarcasm all day, in the next, one slap and it's an infraction.
Some moderators I've found very easy to talk to and their approach is simple and clear. Others, can't seem to communicate without fury. You cannont reason with an angry person and I'm surprised that that can come from a moderator. Like many others I'm sure, I use many forums and this is the only one where I've seen moderators be allowed act this way.
I find that confusing and I'm also convinced that 'convenience' rules are created sometimes, and other times rules are flouted. Like a lot of people, I just want to come to talk about my phone, mod it etc. but the above makes it an unhappy trip on here sometimes. If it becomes a place where these issues are occuring, it feels to me like an 'anything goes' territory.
One other thing, is that I'm convinced that a thanks meter (which we know is also used as an 'I like you or your comment' meter is currency. Do we each have to notch up 1,000 posts and 300 thanks to become equal?
Anyone noticed similar? Any other frustrations?

SharpnShiny said:
Anyone noticed similar? Any other frustrations?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having received an infraction and a ban in the past, the irony being that I received the second for discussing by P.M that the first was given incorrectly by a moderator who didn't seem to know what an "affiliate" link was, so I do have a few frustrations with how some things are dealt with around here :silly:, but no matter how good your intentions are, how good an idea is or how in the long run something might improve the site, nothings going to change around here, and expect this thread to be locked as criticism even if constructive of how things are done around here doesn't usually go down well with TPTB. :angel:

SharpnShiny said:
In the time that I've been here, and had several phones while here, I've noticed that moderators can sometimes use the same rules very differently. With some of my older phones (and so in those forums) I noticed that if someone 'tried to act like a moderator' they could be lobbied with an infraction pretty easily.
<SNIP>
Anyone noticed similar? Any other frustrations?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a big difference between trying to act like a moderator and aiding the moderators in what they do by referring people to the relevant links etc.
If someone is pushing their weight around, being all high and mighty and trying to enforce the rules as if they're more important - that is trying to act like a moderator.
However, directing people to the right place or making someone aware of the rules, without acting like the Big I Am - this is aiding the moderators and helping xda out.
Another thing that needs to be taken into account is that mods are only human and different mods will find some things acceptable whereas some others won't.
So if there are posts that you think should be actioned, simply report it and it will get the relevant mods attention. If you don't agree with a mods decision then you can politely PM them and ask why they made the decision they did and if you're still not happy with it, get in touch with a senior mod about it.
Where did the idea about posts and thanks come from? I don't agree with that at all, to be honest with you.
XperienceD said:
Having received an infraction and a ban in the past, the irony being that I received the second for discussing by P.M that the first was given incorrectly by a moderator who didn't seem to know what an "affiliate" link was, so I do have a few frustrations with how some things are dealt with around here :silly:, but no matter how good your intentions are, how good an idea is or how in the long run something might improve the site, nothings going to change around here, and expect this thread to be locked as criticism even if constructive of how things are done around here doesn't usually go down well with TPTB. :angel:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you think that we're not allowed to discuss the way the site is, then I can assure you that's not the case at all.
The fact is, there's a time and a place for everything.
If you're not happy with how the site is run, or how a moderator/admin acts around the site then creating a thread to bring these issues to the forefront isn't the way to do it.
If you contact the relevant mods etc via PM and want to discuss something relevant I'm sure they'll be more than happy to speak to you about it and sort out any problems you may have.

Nothing is perfect. The moderators can't be. But the comittee chooses them as they do appear close to 'perfect'. If at all you think any unfair decision has been taken upon you or any other member, you can always contact the moderator liasion admins or any one of the admins.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda premium

If you have concerns about a specific moderator or forum then I'd be happy to hear them. As would any member of the moderator committee. Feel free to drop us a pm if you wish.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

I've posted a couple of threads on GENERAL news topics which were curiously moved to the section belonging to my current phone. I can't believe it. It's so biased it's unbelieveable. I calmly messaged the mod who moved it and got no response. I really have no respect for a system that has no respect for it's users. That will be the last news piece that I post, I'll add and contribute to mods and that's it.
Not all of us are 16 year olds still learning, some of us are adults that have education and experience and can tell the difference between the sections. The bias and lack of communication is poor reflection of the site.

conantroutman said:
If you have concerns about a specific moderator or forum then I'd be happy to hear them. As would any member of the moderator committee. Feel free to drop us a pm if you wish.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much, I didn't see this until today. I'm afraid that on a few issues I have tried this and got no where. I can guarantee I communicate in these messages calmly, reasonable - and open to being wrong. I just can't believe it goes no where.

SharpnShiny said:
Thank you very much, I didn't see this until today. I'm afraid that on a few issues I have tried this and got no where. I can guarantee I communicate in these messages calmly, reasonable - and open to being wrong. I just can't believe it goes no where.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can only apologise for that, I'd hope that any enquiry made would be met with a response. I must say though that it may well be a simple mistake as we can often get quite a lot of messages to respond to and it's easy to one miss one, I'm certainly guilty of that myself (more than once)
As I said though, if you have specific concerns please feel free to get in touch with either myself or any mod committee member and we'll try to make sure the issue is resolved.

Related

Rude senior members!!

I have frequented this site over the past few weeks or so and am outright disturbed by the disrespect some "NEW" members are getting. I haven't actually encountered this personally, but as I have read numerous post, I see things that make me want to turn around and split! Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members. Is this really tolerated here? I really hope not because I like the site for the most part. I just refuse to be part of a forum that lets rudeness and disrespect go unattended.
I don't mean to be a bother, but the forum I moderate at would NEVER let this happen. We BAN members for disrespecting one another. I thought that's what I would encounter here as well.
I am not really looking for a response here, just wanted to let someone who cares know what I experienced over the past few weeks here as a new member. Thank you to whomever takes the time and interest to read this.
-Tommy
NOTE TO ALL: DO NOT POST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD! IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ALREADY. THANKS -Tommy

Thank you for the quick reply. I'm glad to see you guys are aware of this and working to cut down on the rudeness. I myself have told "newer" members to search instead of posting new threads that look like new mods as well. I do like the site though, and will continue to frequent it. I am SOLD on htc's, as I have recently chased a TD2 and love it. I will also be able to contribute new mods as soon as I can get used to the platform.
Thanks again,
-Tommy

tomtommy306 said:
Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tommy, I'm someone who felt, 2 years ago, exactly what you describe here. It was always justified as senior members getting tired of volunteering their time to help people -- only to have some new members bypass reading any "sticky threads" or any admonitions to "please read before posting a new thread" (in which tips are provided for how to get answers to frequently asked questions) -- and seemingly never bothering to search at all.
Over the past 2 years I have observed 2 things, trend-wise: (1) Once I gained some decent baseline proficiency in understanding how the basics work re upgrading my phone with new & improved software, I then started to see, as though appearing for the first time (but they were always present) the TONS of repeated questions and downright disrespect some new members had for even following the most basic of protocols -- like -- "please post that at the forum dedicated to your phone model; you can find it here..." generating responses like
"I don't have time for that. I just need to know what HardSPL means and where I can find the latest ROM for my T-Mobile Wing"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally I attribute a HUGE amount of this to the less-than-optimal information design of this site, which sends people back and forth from here to there to a wiki, then searching for acronyms and definitions, then to a sticky thread (MANY OF WHICH ARE NOW OUTDATED AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER A YEAR), then back to a hacking section, being shouted at that "this isn't for asking questions, moron; this is for contributing software hacks", and eventually generating some dog-chasing-tail experiences for new members. One of the people working his damned hardest to help minimize this is nir36 (SHOUTOUT!) with his excellent GUIDES, and with his patience within the "Questions and Answers" section.
But -- (2) Here's what I have also seen: A huge disruption of culture here at XDA, prompted, I believe, by the mainstreaming of touchscreen phones with the introduction of Apple's iPhone. Two- to three- to four years ago, the people who frequented this site were predominantly hackers who banded together to solve many of the deficiencies of WindowsMobile software, and who shared their expertise knowing that other people's expertise would benefit them and solve annoying problems, or push a certain envelope. There was, as a result, a culture of CONTRIBUTION, vs one of "gimme gimme gimme, I don't have time, just gimme".
I've seen many an essay posted here by veteran members of XDA expressing a real frustration for some of the behaviors caused by the new influx of people seeing tricks and hacks now posted on YouTube, and then discovering XDA, and coming here to "find that and get it onto my device".
This has created a culture clash which is totally understandable from both sides of of the issue. There's more and more abuse of basic rules & process, where, as I said, more people seek to bypass all that rigamaroll and just post wherever it seems to fit, and seek a specific answer about how to get XXX on my device. There are MANY MANY senior members, even veteran senior members who've been here 4-5 years, who still use a soft touch in asking people to "read this FAQ please" or "please post that in THIS forum". But at the same time, when the response to gentle nudges like that is along the lines of "I don't have time for that, I'm in a hurry, and I just need to get this installed", then patience grows thin.
And so yes, of course, you'll see people snapping at one another. But it's born of frustration for the lack of respect of the culture of XDA -- where it had always been part of the quest to have new people work a little at finding answers, not to punish them, but rather to help them connect the dots and see the solutions available to them, and how they often build atop prior work.
Anyway these are my thoughts. I speak only as a member, not as any representative of the site or group of Mods.

I have been looking around quite a bit lately(here @ XDA), and have better feelings about it. There are a lot more helpful and kind people here, then there are rude ones. I guess I was running into a lot of newer members that were being disrespectful to the seniors. I understand the frustrations of members not being appreciative as I see it often where I mod. It does get frustrating when people don't say "please" and "thank you" , but some people must have forgotten what their families have taught them. MANNERS...
I will continue to be around the site.
You ALL do great work here, and I appreciate the time and effort involved.
I rarely ask for help, but I wanted to know it was welcome, just in case.
We are all here for the same thing, and I am very glad to have found XDA to fuel my need.
The site has a great REP, and that means a lot to me.
It was also the reason for concern in the first place.
Thanks again guys,
-Tommy
Note to MODS or ADMINS: PLEASE CLOSE or DELETE THIS THREAD. I am very happy with the responses I have been given, and am happy to be here. The topic will not be brought up again unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.

At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V

vijay555 said:
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got that right.... Howard forums are very out there.
That's where I discovered modding cell phones for the first time.
If any complaints were ever to arise(doubtful), I would communicate via PM only.
Thanks vijay.

Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.

Drybonz said:
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.

tomtommy306 said:
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well an assumption is an assumption. There is nothing you can do about it if a skeptic has little information to analyze.
To explain the frustrations of the "meanies" here are two situations I come up with:
Situation 1
The problem is that XDA is very likely to be the most visited forum as a technical support forum but stupid idiots are just too stupid to fix their problem when the answer is right there.
Example
For example, I have seen plenty on the Xperia forums in which some dude asks for panels when it is available as a sticky called "panels library" and the links worked at the moment, and yet the he requests for an existing panel.
Situation 2
Someone asks for a Windows Live Messenger download, and he/she says that he "looked everywhere, up and down" ... I tell him that it's easy to find and he isn't really looking ... he defense himself saying that he really did look ... we say o rly?
Example
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=517909
By the way, I declare this a skeleton war, since both of you are likely to argue and you both have skull faces

I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal

I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
But if a skeleton war is in order...... I have some tattooed on me and am infatuated with them, so I WIN...hahaha

sakshamkatyal said:
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!

tomtommy306 said:
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No its not mine but it was our's.
Even we are stunned with what happened to her in this little age.
get more about her here.
http://www.supportalessandra.com/
I wish you have a nice time over here. Dont worry xda is community inhabited more by mature people fortunately. Or else mods would be always there.
Regards
Saksham Katyal

tomtommy306 said:
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.

Drybonz said:
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.

poetryrocksalot said:
Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dunno... I'm 32 and I was quoting it.

Yeash, this is turning into that thread about religion.
Guys, please.
Noobs: sometimes, seniors get tired of answering the same old questions that can be easily found by a quick google.
Seniors: sometimes noobs are coming from a world of Nokias and iphones. You live in a world where people make ROMs for fun. Seriously.
The lot of you: you live in a world where you rub shoulders with Doctor Manhattan style giants, and don't even know it. Some of the guys on this site will astound you with their knowledge of the intricacies of the minutiae of the encryption systems used in the CE rom structure. They could blow you all away.
Experience is a sliding scale, and even George Lucas knows that "there's always a bigger fish".
Everyone should be polite, you were all noobs once.
V
PS be polite, serious, cus I'll start getting medieval soon.

poetryrocksalot said:
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.

wagonis said:
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kudos to you sir

I agree with Wagonis: just ignore any remarks by others that you dislike for any reason.
To Tomtommy: I agree with you that everyone ought to be polite, it is an excellent thing to strive for yourself. But if you let impolite remarks bother you, you just make things worse than they need be. If you ignore them, they will bother you far less. Indignation is a dangerous emotion, because it tends to swell with time. Just let people bicker; when they are really offended, they will make it known. Most people can take a bit of bullying.
[What I am going to say now borders on the insolent, so that I must apologize beforehand, but: I think those who are most insecure about themselves are the ones most easily offended. Those who are confident just think: "oh, an impolite remark" without experiencing much emotional impact. Sometimes, others are judged "offended" even when they themselves do not care.
Another option is that there are just differences in culture: in some groups, rude remarks are considered a form of innocent teasing.]

Flaming/Insults/Bullying!

Ok, i know people should use the search button before posting a question, or submitting an incorrect fact BUT SERIOUSLY every other reply is just another person insulting someone else!
I know it's hard to keep your cool sometimes with people asking/stating the same things over and over, but is there rely the need to be an a*s about it. All thats going to do is provoke a reaction (Because everyone is invincible on the internet) and that will just lead to more useless posting, which if i'm right thats what you were trying to prevent in the first place!
This is not an attack on any person, nor is it meant to cause offense, but honestly forums are about friendship where everyone can come and gain advice/guidance or just have a nice chat to learn(Everyone has to start somewhere) and a lot of people on here are not helping them. Would you like to have someone talk to you like that when you were just starting out and didn't have a clue what you were doing?. . . NO you would want an easy answer so you could learn from it, in the same amount of time it takes to flame someone for not knowing it you could have told the the bloody answer!
I know I'll properly get a lot of people flaming me for this but just needed to get this out my system because i think its out of order.
Like me mum used to say "If you ain't got anything nice to say, pi*s off!"
Billy_M

Billy. said:
I know I'll properly get a lot of people flaming me for this but just needed to get this out my system because i think its out of order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would you get flamed when all you said is an honest truth?
The forum is full of morons and self appointed forum nazis, hell I could name a few in a split second who do this all the time...
This behaviour is probably induced by the lack of moderator presence. This Desire subforum has couple of thousand posts daily, and I see only two moderators listed.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

Like it or not, this is a forum - and a HUGE one at that, as erklat has said, thousands of posts each day. This make stringent enforcement hard.
And every forum that I have ever been to seemed to have (sadly, but is it avoidable?) a social structure, whether clearly displayed or not - and probably, that's the way its going to be (for a long time to come).

oursoul said:
Too many ******* can't take bit if banter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
big difference between taking the piss out of someone and abusing them tho....

it comes down to laziness on users. People want information given to them on a plate and not have to find it themselves. The issue is that rule number 1 of the forum rules is to search
If you can't follow a simple rule then you deserve to get flamed
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

So maybe I'm just reading the handfull of threads that are being actively policed by the moderators...
Or maybe I have a really thick skin..
Or maybe the very few people whom I do see getting flamed actually deserve what they're getting (i.e. those who expressly list in their post that they can't be arsed to search and those who have the gall to post in developer threads with "your rom sucks, I'll never use it unless you add ...")..
Whatever the cause, I simply don't agree with your observation. People here are being genuinely helpful and the mods are doing a great job cleaning up bad posts and flames (as evidenced by those "thread cleaned" posts every now and then).

Depends on the section. It's ruined the Dev section because of leniency so there's a major clamp-down now in process, which I obviously applaud.
I have not till date seen anyone of thousands ask a valid question/concern and be policed, ridiculed or flamed. The help here is extremely benevolent and common. However, hundreds make invalid, undeserving posts justifying scorn but get away with it with smiles in response. That's the other, bigger side of what you mention.
I hate the playground child forum behavior immensely too. Trust me, so do the mods I've come across. I've seen quite a few past the limits on this. The users who reply and continuously flame are usually just as bad, except the one offs and the ones justified. They're meant to simply report the one breaking the rules and mods will deal with them as justified.
In my limited experience, 99% of those opposing/objecting to following the set rules don't have a clue about them but have big mouths and like to talk any nonsense to justify what they did. They are clueless about the rules on xda-dev and what this place is all about long before they were ever aware of it. The 'mantra' here. They come on here expecting the place to follow their own personal beliefs and rules, just causing havoc. That's why mods say, if you be so, better find somewhere else. And if a user repeats the obvious oft-repeated, that insults and offends everyone. It's a spit in their face, and of the mods, and it is bound to anger many with justification. Those who abide by the rules have placed much time and effort in doing so. Don't expect them to just laugh around while another just comes storming in trampling on them with great disregard. The same goes in every sphere of life.
The internet shows time and time again how modern society en-masse fails grossly in the honesty, decency, humility, intelligence and mentality departments. Greed, ego and stupidity rule, that's why places like xda-dev need to have firm rules enforced to maintain some quality. This place was always known for quality, and having spoken to mods, I know they work hard - for free - to maintain it as so. Be human, have some regard for them and others here before posting.
------------------------------
- Sent via HTC Desire -

What I would ask, is that people who see something that offends you, report it.
We can't read every post in every forum, but I can tell you that each and every report is seen and acted upon. We rely on members helping us to root out the bad apples.
This is what I've posted in the Oxygen thread. I think it sums up my feelings on this subject.
The frustration shown here by both AdamG, and _thalamus, must surely give people an indication of how annoying it is to see a thread be totally ruined by people who are too lazy to try and help themselves.
It's sad that you need reminded that the people who develop roms and post them here, do so for no personal gain, and do so to try and help us all get the best possible user experience from our devices.
The sad fact of life in today's society is that people want to be spoon-fed, they are too lazy to carry out a simple piece of research, and they demand that they get what they want, when they want. Then once they get it, they demand more. This is not what XDA-Developers is all about. If you need to ask what this forum is for, then you surely are in the wrong place.
Please take a moment and ask yourself, do you find your device now runs faster, smoother, is faster updated etc? If the answer is yes, then that is down to the dedication of the developers here. If you drive them away with your laziness, rudeness, demands etc, then you only have yourself to blame.
Please show the developers some respect. If you feel they owe you something, then do us all a favour and move on to somewhere else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Lol, bad apples

erklat said:
This behaviour is probably induced by the lack of moderator presence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. This behaviour is usually induced by a severe lack of self esteem on the part of the bully.

In my opinion, if a question is deemed flammable, just report it instead of answering.
This can achieve two goals. People will start to understand that it will be faster to search instead of demand. And for those "Are we there yet"s, each unjustified bumps/reposts would count as multiples infractions. Thus, a faster banning.

I must agree will that
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

ignore?
As with all twats to cross in your way and hurl abuse.....IGNORE them,we are adults.most of us anyway..why is there a thread for this lol.

DoomFragger said:
In my opinion, if a question is deemed flammable, just report it instead of answering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very true. Flaming somebody for an idiotic post instead of reporting it makes about as much sense as posting only "Cool, thanks" instead of using the "Thanks" button. Waste of space.

I have noticed recentlyl that that the people who know stuff have reduced their posts. This is counter productive. But I can understand why. And I've seen some bad advice given by others.
Don't know what the solution is tho....
Bye
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

mikep99 said:
I have noticed recentlyl that that the people who know stuff have reduced their posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe they get tired of answering the same questions over and over.
At least, instead of flaming, they just ignore it.

foresterr said:
Flaming somebody for an idiotic post instead of reporting it makes about as much sense as posting only "Cool, thanks" instead of using the "Thanks" button. Waste of space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got totally wrong perception about flaming. If someone posts a question about recommended radio for the tenth time, and you go with flaming and rudeness, it points out one and only thing - you are even worse than him/her, he is not in the violation of the forum rules, you are. In that situation you either respond to help, or you don't respond at all. A binary choice. You are either a smoker or a non smoker. You can't be a moron in that story and smoke an electronic cigar. Well, this is similar.
Sometimes I reply to silly posts, sometimes I don't. I don't make a drama out of it. The problem of this and other forums are illiterate halfwits who are unable to keep a decent intellectual and communicational level in their posts.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

erklat said:
The problem of this and other forums are illiterate halfwits who are unable to keep a decent intellectual and communicational level in their posts.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just because someones primary language might not be English doesn't make them an illiterate halfwit. I think many of the communication issues in this and other forums can be chalked up to a language barrier.

I got flamed a bit in the post i made about ROMs. Pissed me off a bit, but i just ignored it.

As someone new to this forum, but some experience in other specialized forums for many years I was at first surprised and then a bit angered about the massive amount of totally useless posts.
I bought my first smartphone last year and after some weeks I found in xda the richest fountain of information. The first time it is not easy to learn, especially if you have to wade through pages and pages of silly, pointless and sometimes downright dumb posts. Extremely annoying are the repeated questions about a problem, which is explained thouroughly in the first 3 or 4 posts of a thread, as this is a proof for the total disregard of the OP, who is often the developer.
I think, this "I wanna be spoon-fed and pampered"-behaviour is actually encouraged in our society - the sad point is, in the late nineties these kind of people couldn´t post in forums - it was simply too complicated for them to use a computer
Today every simpleton with the ability to push a button can post in forums like this - with the observable consequences. Phewww /end rant
What to do about it - I don´t know. In other forums I have seen, the quality gets better through massive and sometimes hard moderation - but these forums were much smaller than xda.
So I can understand the anger, but it is as pointless as the silly questions: it only wastes space and makes threads harder to read.
Reporting pointless posts to moderation with a warning to the poster and maybe a strict "3-strikes and you´re out"-rule would bring some success, but also an massive amount of discussion about censorship, freedom of expression etc.
What to say: I´ll read and maybe sometimes post a question and hope, that this massive fountain of information will not become a mere trickle.
English is not my mother-tongue, therefore my use of grammar might be sometimes a little funny.

So much disrespect going on!!!

I just really don't understand.. I have been reading though many different threads for a long time now (lurking cuz I dont have any issues to report on) but thats not the point of my post right now...
most people are helpful and respectful and thats what we fellow android lovers should be about, BUT then there are some people that are just straight up A-holes... and people in the android community wonder what is happening to XDA as a whole... just read through pretty much any thread and you can see it...
we are all here to HELP not FLAME!!! we are NO better than others cuz we know more or have more posts, big deal, we all started out at post count 1... alot of times I wonder how old the people on here really are? cuz they act like high schoolers... again, the majority is a good group of people but alot of people need to check themselves... i hate to say it(not really) but everyone is going to rootzwiki and android central for this reason alone... DISRESPECT... think about it.... seriously, just think about it.
If we, or anyone who honestly gives a sh** wants to restore this site to its former glory, then first start showing respect!!!
/END RANT
This thread is for voicing opinions/issues ONLY!!! Rumors will not be allowed and NO flaming tolerated!!! thanks

THIS. Over in Fascinate land, we're losing our best developers as well as some VERY helpful "average users" due to an apparent surge in all-around immaturity and stupidity. Thing is, in my 27 years, I have yet to find a community (online or not) bereft of the "our community's dying!" mentality.
Wherever you have people, you have politics; wherever you have politics, you have conflict. While it's frustrating to see highly valued contributors moving on, we can still follow (and learn from) their continuing efforts while remaining part of XDA ourselves. The Internet's handy like that, but it's a double-edged sword: the masses always follow the content they desire and migrate as needed. The devs are our content providers, but donations and "Thank You" buttons can only go so far to outweigh general Internet shenanigans / douchebaggery.
Basically, I am confident that the greater XDA community will continue to thrive as long as the vast majority of users continue to conduct themselves appropriately and remain intersted in the subject matter. There'll always be petty squabbling and "shocking" departures, but it takes more than that to truly ruin a community.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App

I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.

Omnichron said:
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this

ssethv said:
I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.

Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome

MartyLK said:
I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App

Jazz848 said:
Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very true. But there are some who are not children who are just as disrespectful as some of the younger ones.

ssethv said:
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Though it is possible such disrespectful people could have valuable info, I would rather not use it anyway. I'm funny that way. If someone disrespects me, nothing they do is liked. And I personally don't consider anything from them of use.
Thanks for the compliment. It was an addition when I started using the ignore list.

@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.

I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"

@orb3000
Thanks for the feedback... I never feed the fires of a flame... I am here for two reasons only... to get info (by READING or using the search tool) and to help other people out...
I am looking forward to "said" changes coming to the site

tek818 said:
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I somewhat agree with you... but we all started at post count 1, and were all noobs at one time... everyone that enters this site should be treated with dignity and respect. unless, the are undeserving of it, then as Marty said "block them"
but i understand exactly what you mean.. and it can be annoying at times. thats when i go smoke a cig or take a breath and break from the computer for a while.

orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are going on my block list. Sheesh, flaming on a thread about stopping the flames. Shame on you!

LOL.... i cant stop laughing, you just made my day a little better

ssethv said:
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
When you're the kind of person who does things like, say, read all 800 pages of a thread (and weeding out al the useless posts) so you're sure to be up to date, then someone waltzes in and asks a question for the 100th time... it's just incredibly frustrating. For every user that does that, there's one that has come in quietly and found the information on their own, which means the information CAN be found. Heck, I was able to find it. I know it's out there. I earned it and they want it for free. So how many lazy so-and-sos should I give it away to before I get a bit irate? Frustration is instantly doubled if the post is in a Development thread.
We're all standing on the shoulders of those that have gone before us. Problem is, some n00bs don't seem to care if they kick the guys under them in the nuts on the way up. It gets old.
But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.

mrkite38 said:
The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well said, and I understand and agree with you... I am low on my post count on this site becuase I do use the search tool and EVERY singe question known to man has been asked and answered on this site, thats why I lurk and reseach, so I don't ask the same question again... I am on Android Central and know exactly what you mean. I was asked to be a moderator but turned it down cuz I don't always have the time... I mainly try to create guides/fixes/tutorials for the thunderbolt rooting roms and hacks section.
thanks to everyone for there thoughts and replies thus far, hopefully some more people will read and take to heart all of our opinions and issues

orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, especially the bold part. But the current system in place doesn't help us report any problem posts. I've been here since 2007 (in fact the only other older person in this thread is you) and just comparing what was back in 2007 to now, the problem is worse with hot tempered devs and or members in general. Like I said the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
And while I agree that the site is mostly created by developers for developers, everyone started on page 1. Everyone started asking questions. I understand that some devs (and members) will get frustrated after the same question is asked over and over. But there isn't any need to go off the deep end. The same goes for any member. In the time that one wastes making a post flaming the member, they could have reported it or better yet, provide the answer.
I've gone through threads with hundreds of pages to get an answer, but seeing so many with flames, arguments and nonsense forces those that rather not deal with it to ask the question even if it was asked before.
Now mind you, I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere. Its a fine line to cross. Now, what the solution or middle ground is, is anyone's guess. Hopefully the upcoming changes will be a start. But in the meantime, I for one will continue to report anyone that is out of line regardless of post count or title.
TS out

Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true!!!
the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully this idea will be considered by the mods, its a good idea!!!
I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well put... thanks for contributing to this thread... I want this to get the wheels turning, I love this place and hate what is and has happened to it...

New report post system is on the way pretty soon

Something Needs to Change

All,
I've decided that rather than start attacking some of the forum users whose conduct I don't agree with, I'd write an opinion and a suggestion.
Let me start by saying, that I love XDA. Before I became a member, I spent countless hours reading through threads on these forums. Admittedly, prior to discovering the Nexus One I was an iPhone user, and apple fanboy. I can honestly say that XDA helped cure me of that.
I am not a developer. I use these forums as a method of learning how to enhance my phone; to build a working knowledge of Android; with a hope to one day I will be able to repay the Devs who helped me with original work of my own. Lately, as many people have already stated, I've noticed that the quality of discussion in many forum threads has gone down significantly. The mods do an excellent job of keeping threads on topic, and cleaning useless posts, however, I think its getting to be too much for them. This is my attempt to provide advice to new users, and to suggest a possible course of action to help correct the conduct that is a cancer on this great site.
I've seen threads where Dev's are threatened if they don't release ROMs, where people demand ETAs. Team Hacksung, who worked tirelessly to release CM7 for the SGS2 actually had to threaten to leave XDA to bring order to their development thread. I've also seen threads degrade into rascism and discrimination, threats of violence and bigotry. None of this is acceptable, and will serve no other goal than forcing developers to leave XDA.
People need to understand a few things:
[*] Dev's work is done on their own free-time
[*] Dev's work is done for no compensation other than the gratitude of their peers and the occasional donation.
[*] Dev's are under no obligation to release ANYTHING to the members of XDA - If they don't feel their work is ready, or they aren't ready to share it, you have no right to demand it released.
[*] Access to Dev work is a privilege that can easily be revoked; NOT A RIGHT.
In addition to the excellent and trying job that the moderators already undertake, I suggest the following apply to anyone not recognized as a developer:
[*] There is a 3 strike rule with regards to posting in each development section. Any posts deemed to be off-topic, not-relevant, hateful, malicious, rascist, etc should be deemed a strike. I would not include obvious jokes, sincere mistakes, attempts to be helpful, etc as a strike. My goal is not to discourage participation, but to discourage comments designed to be harmful.
[*]Strike 1 is a warning, Strike 2 is a one week ban from posting within the development forums, strike 3 is a permanent ban from posting within the development forums.
Moderators would be responsible for determining what is a strike based on a pre-determined criteria.
My 2c, take it or leave it..
C0mbe

"In a perfect world..."

github said:
"In a perfect world..."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App

I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.

Rule with an Iron Fist!!!
I agree and it's quite simple. Have respect and decency toward others and remember this is a "family oriented" site/community and that needs to be respected. I have stated my advice elsewhere in the forums that XDA needs to start ruling with an "IRON FIST" and keep this site enjoyabe and respectable as it should be. I stand behind that and always will. It is the best way to run the forums otherwise it will turn into a battleground of idiots envoking arguments, name calling, etc. I personally take offense to people who attack others in the forums and elsewhere on XDA. I have probably gotten a little out of line in the past a couple of times but that was due to others' attacks and flaming.
If you feel you should be allowed freedom of speech and explicit visual interpretation/expressionon on XDA, then this isn't the community for you. XDA holds the right to moderate it's site and forums as they see fit. In this case XDA chooses to run a family friendly site instead of a free-for-all slugfest site and I'm in favor of that. This is not directed to anyone in particular, nor do I pass judgement on anybody it's just my thoughts. Leave the hate/foul mouth comments in your world not here @XDA.
I think XDA is the best "go-to" site for all smartphone development needs and resources and that is how everybody should want to keep it. I bet most of you will agree. Do your part by helping and respecting others AT ALL TIMES. Please don't post hate comments, intentional troll provoking/explicit behavior/expressions, hateful/attitude remarks here at XDA.
Thanks for reading.

C0mbe said:
This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.

github said:
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has nothing to do with site growth. It never has. If you break the rules, you get punished. It's that simple. You can try ignoring useless or inflaming comments all you want, but all that does is allow the behavior to continue. Obviously, catering to the behavior and becoming more lenient didn't work. The result is that the mods are now beginning to crack down harder again. This is the direction the site is now going. This site is about developers, not troubleshooting.
Users should learn manners and respect or go somewhere else. That's the main point. It isn't our job here to teach people the manners their parents could not. That's why the site isn't named XDA-Babysittingservice.com.

It the world wide web there are bound to be idiots out there. If they start banning these people there be just me and the mods left!!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App

github said:
At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, each and every demand for an ETA or disrespectful comment does not bother me that much, and of course I understand that its the internet. Its very easy to behave like an idiot when you are hiding behind pixels. Its really the totality of the circumstances that I am referring to. The object of XDA is for individuals to share development information with the common goal of improving Android phones. If the purpose of the site is lost in all the ETAs and disrespectful comments, then what is the point? Certainly, the point is not to lose developers...
github said:
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Call me whatever you like, your admission that there are multiple complaints like mine on each sub-forum is proof that there is a problem with member conduct on the site. And I did say that my OP was my own opinion, and my 2c.
github said:
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who says you need a police state? I'm merely talking about adding rules to encourage and enforce order on the forums. And no one wants growth for the sake of growth. A small site that is efficient and has a high number of contributing members will always be better than a large site where the sheer volume of junk posts dilute the contributing members.
Plus, at the end of the day, all anyone really has on the internet is a voice. Thus, the ban remains the most effective method of controlling poor conduct.

It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do

TheRomMistress said:
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.

github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.

github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cajunflavoredbob said:
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said

Thanks. I actually moved this into it's own post/question, as it is kind of offtopic from what OP was discussing.

Dealing With New Users

This idea came about from a discussion, in the old requests to mods & admins thread, about dealing with new users across this site.
When I say dealing with new users, I mean how you respond to either posts where the user clearly hasn't searched, the user has done something they shouldn't have done etc etc.
Some users will simply report the members post and leave it down to the moderators to deal with. Some will respond with sarcasm/trolling/flaming. Some will simply give the person the correct information and mention nothing about what they've done wrong and others, like me, may feel the need to rant away at some users.
With me, if someone has done something they shouldn't have done, I won't ever report it. I'll only report a post if it's something serious like racism or illegal content. I'll generally give tell the person nicely what it is they've done wrong and what they should've done instead.
Obviously, doing so won't always work and the new member will continue doing wrong. I'll then PM the member and explain it to them fully away from public view.
However, if I come across a situation where a user has done wrong, and after being told so numerous times even by different people, that's when I'll step in and rant at them. My rants are never harsh and can never be mistaken for such. I simply tell them what they've done wrong and what they should've done, but I write it in such a way where it makes it seem angrier and makes the message sink in.
I'm interested to know what others opinions are on this and how you personally deal with such situations.
I already know that if moderators drop by in here, they'll probably say it's best to use the report feature but I'd like to hear everyone's opinions anyway

what i try to do is tell them as nicely as i can (not really that nice, but i don't flame) where they're wrong. i do realize mods are busy and i avoid reporting until i've given the new member at least a warning. i do report immediately when the issue is serious (ie: spamming in dev threads, warez, etc.).
Sent from my rooted tomato using xda app

I try to point out their mistakes. Then I explain (nicely) that xxx shouldn't have done yyyy. It doesn't hurt to be well-mannered. The member usually realizes his/her mistake and (tries to at least) never repeats it, hopefully.

I usually don't flame anyone.. I just reply them where they should have actually reported or posted it with link to that threads or forums.. and I ask them to post in proper section from next times.. usually using "please" or such words makes it better I feel.. they will feel we are trying to help them not to get in trouble in future and such.. and hopefully they will follow the advice in future..
But if I see same guy after been told does the same mistake.. then I report them..
Also I will report all wrong threads using PM with link to thread directly to our device mod as he is friendly and doesn't mind such PMs..
Sent from the MUST have app!

Great idea for a thread. I saw a very good post by FallenSpartan that really helped explain in the old mod requests thread, but I can't find it, must have been deleted. Anyways, the bottom line is, the person on the other side that computer could be anyone. For all you know, they could barely be able to speak English, or even have a mental disability . People need to be a little more understanding, trolling and flaming will only frustrate people and confuse them even more. A polite but pointed request to search next time and that the information is out there along with a link to it would be ideal in my opinion. The new users might not entirely grasp the concept of what's going on and how to easily search, and that information isn't exactly readily available. I know it is out there, but speaking from personal experience, I didn't go anywhere outside of my device's forum for quite some time after joining, not that I didn't know how to do those things. Point is, while the idea of searching and finding information for yourself is commonplace to you, it may not be to new users, and I don't think the importance of finding your own information is stressed enough for new members. While you may get angry and feel the need to rant and flame, it won't be nearly as effective at changing the way people act compared to a polite and firm request with the info attached, and possibly even what you did to find the information.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

@cascabel & nitubhaskar - I used to find that reporting would work, especially considering that's what the mods always say is the best option rather than dealing with it yourself, but if I was to report all those who were report worthy, I'd never get anything else done lol.
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
@sgt. meow - I guess with your forum being a fairly quiet forum, there's generally no need to do more than you do, as in such a forum people like that are really easy to notice and take action against if needed.
@prototype - I saw that post by FS aswell and I do agree with what he said. It could quite easily be a disabled person or someone with learning difficulties etc. but as of the time of the rants, I don't think about that because I just think about the fact they've constantly done the wrong thing.
Maybe I should put more consideration into things like that, but I just don't.
And while I do kind of agree that some people may be more open to listening if you actually help them out, as said above, in my experience ranting works.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them. It's only in certain situations that I feel a rant is actually necessary, whether others agree with that or not.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?

KidCarter93 said:
@cascabel & nitubhaskar -
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually you are right.. it helps them if we say what wrong they did and also give info what they asked in same post.. but I hope they won't feel that, even if he/she did made a wrong/ mistake they will get the quick info they need without any effort kinda feeling..
About mods not giving info on why they delete posts /lock threads.. well considering their busy work I guess its understandable..
But our forum mod The-Captain always kindly leaves a note for user as far as I have seen.. and I send PM only after I inform the newbie most of the times.. so both deeds are done.. lesson reached and reported
About your ranting...
Lol.. no way.. as far as I have seen your posts.. well your patience is pretty high.. ocassionally I have seen you going angry.. otherwise you are kind enough to give info and inform them of their mistakes.. well that's my observation.. excluding your device forum though
Sent from the MUST have app!

It's in the XDA rules to be nice to other members, whether new or old. So even if noob posts a warez content i never flame or troll him. Yeah, i do wanna give him a scolding but i don't. I'm gonna simply report it. Yes, i do sometimes post a reply or give him a PM, requesting him to remove the content with a link to the rules.
If a user dosen't search :-
Suppose a noob has bricked his phone, and creates a thread asking for help. In many cases of not searching, i advise users to search, but in these particular cases, i give 'em a link to the specific thread too.
If someone (racially) discriminates another user, i simply report him/her. Flaming him with sarcastic remarks might earn me a few thanks, (maybe) suppress the guy down, but it still isn't good for two reasons - one, as it's against the rules, two, as it proves that you're not a bit different from the user.
||I'm just a PM away for help||

How I respond depends on a new users thread, if it's to ask something particular then I'll either not reply or provide a link that's related or helps directly, if it's a new thread asking "how to root", how to unlock the boot loader", "how to install this ROM", "what's the best ROM" (there's at least 20+ threads asking that or similar in the Arc section in the last month or two) or asking about something in an existing thread that they could have just asked their question in, then I tend to be a bit more, how shall I say this, sarcastically direct :silly:, which some People take on the chin, and if they get it then I'll try to be more helpful, but you get the odd one or two who take umbrage then want to argue, needless to say I don't help that kind of user.
People joining here should be of a certain aptitude to begin imo and willing to learn, I'm much more inclined to help a user who has shown a bit of initiative but a lot are just sheer lazy and the amount of things that get asked that could be answered in the stickys amazes me.
But then you still get senior members who act like they've never been here before also, so I'm the same with them too. :angel:

KidCarter93 said:
@cascabel & nitubhaskar - I used to find that reporting would work, especially considering that's what the mods always say is the best option rather than dealing with it yourself, but if I was to report all those who were report worthy, I'd never get anything else done lol.
Plus, the way I see it, if someone gets reported and a mod deals with it, there's generally no explanation as to why their post was wrong. Doing it in such a way that I do, it tells them what others tell them but seems to stick in their mind more because of the way it was written.
@sgt. meow - I guess with your forum being a fairly quiet forum, there's generally no need to do more than you do, as in such a forum people like that are really easy to notice and take action against if needed.
@prototype - I saw that post by FS aswell and I do agree with what he said. It could quite easily be a disabled person or someone with learning difficulties etc. but as of the time of the rants, I don't think about that because I just think about the fact they've constantly done the wrong thing.
Maybe I should put more consideration into things like that, but I just don't.
And while I do kind of agree that some people may be more open to listening if you actually help them out, as said above, in my experience ranting works.
It's not as if I rant at people all the time. That's truly not the case. The majority of the time I'll either help them in the thread by directing them to the right course of action or I'll PM them. It's only in certain situations that I feel a rant is actually necessary, whether others agree with that or not.
I've been approved by Snowflake. Jealous?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your ranting works. That's because you've already told them what they're screwing up multiple times and just need to get it into their heads that they can't keep doing whatever they're doing. Ranting without giving any reasoning or advice isn't so effective.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

I mention what they did wrong and just report it or send a pm to a moderator...Don't like making the situation worse
I got transformed into a potato while writing this post..

Well, I always try to understand the situation of the user, I mean on the SGSII forums,for example, I've recognize some users that always post questions instead of search even if the answer it's on the previous page, to them, I ask nicely to search but also I remember that me or some other user told him yet that please follow the rules and search before of post.
In the case of the total newbie users, mostly, I guide them to the thread, post or forum that they need but also, I mention that the rules are clear and need start to search before.
Sometimes I do the recomendation of put (in the next post that they do) where they search or how, if they do it yet, in that way we can give a better help (maybe it's not searching by the right terms or something like that)
I'm totally hate the flame to an user, when I see a post that could be the probably cause of a flame war I report it ASAP. And also, when I see someone flaming I ask nicely to stop because it's against the rules.
Sent from Nyarlathothep's SGSII..."Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"

When I first started, I advised them on the said thread itself, giving as much help as I could. I would wait for a response before PM-ing him/her about what they did and how to avoid getting into more trouble. Along the way, I realised that the more I tried to be nice to them, the more they would just step on me and act as if nothing has happened. The final straw was when this one guy, started hurling abuse at me for pointing out his mistake, vandalised my ROM thread and IRC channel. Soon after more and more hate PM's started to arise. Now I don't bother with wrong do-ers. I find them guilty, I report them. If it get's out of hand, I'll give a sarcastic yet hard hitting post that he/she will never forget. I know it's wrong and some of them will hate me till the rest of their days, but I find monkeys like these only listen to a nice warm infraction instead of kind words. Now I just focus on bug related problems in my forum. Common courtesy is eroding in new users everywhere. Sorry, but this is what more than a year in XDA has made me into . No, I will not change my ways

What I do when users keep posting ETAs/refuse to oblige when told politely - I usually post a image showing what I mean.e.g.facepalm for repeated ETA.it seems to work because-
1.the user seems embarrassed on seeing an actual expression of a person in the image e.g.facepalm.
2.more effective than a wall of post.
3.stands out, no need to read.
4.based on same principle of pie-diagrams, frequency polygons, bar diagrams - more attractive, more efficient.
"your lips move, but I cannot hear what you're saying..."

Bumping for mods/admins to get involved
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

KidCarter93 said:
Bumping for mods/admins to get involved
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think they will.
||I'm just a PM away for help||

anasdcool71 said:
I don't think they will.
||I'm just a PM away for help||
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think they will either, but it's worth a try.
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium

And it seemed to work, that bump.
On topic:
Simply abide the rules. If you see someone breaking the rules (e.g. posting warez, flaming, spamming, etc) report it, using the "!" button on the post. The report will be picked up by a moderator and will be registered, in case we need to review afterwards. Of course, if it's a minor offence, a PM to a mod is ok too.
But how to deal with new users who just ask alot of questions and don't know our "netiquette"?
Try a calm approach and tell them to use the Search function ALOT.
Just remember one thing and live by it: We all were newbs at one time.
Good to see this discussion, shows people care.

Big multiquote coming in 3, 2, 1....
nitubhaskar said:
I usually don't flame anyone.. I just reply them where they should have actually reported or posted it with link to that threads or forums.. and I ask them to post in proper section from next times.. usually using "please" or such words makes it better I feel.. they will feel we are trying to help them not to get in trouble in future and such.. and hopefully they will follow the advice in future..
But if I see same guy after been told does the same mistake.. then I report them..
Also I will report all wrong threads using PM with link to thread directly to our device mod as he is friendly and doesn't mind such PMs..
Sent from the MUST have app!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using common courtesy will go leaps and bounds to remedy the situation. People sometimes do need a not-so-gentle nudging on how things work, but also a simple Please and Thanks can go much further. Otherwise if you flame them for posting something that has been asked just a few pages back, this place can get the mob mentality and all of a sudden, that one comment has turned into 4 pages of dribble that usually has to be cleaned by us and sometimes results in infractions for 1 or more members. Nobody wants that, right?
****The one thing that everyone should do is put on their way-back-hats and remember is when they were first tinkering with their phone and messed something up. Do you remember that Panic Mode your were in? :crying: Palms all sweaty, reading 5-6-7 pages at a time. Thinking that you just bricked your $600usd device. It sucks big time. I've been there many times (long ago )
nitubhaskar said:
About mods not giving info on why they delete posts /lock threads.. well considering their busy work I guess its understandable..
But our forum mod The-Captain always kindly leaves a note for user as far as I have seen.. and I send PM only after I inform the newbie most of the times.. so both deeds are done.. lesson reached and reported
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We generally try to leave a message as to why a thread was closed or moved. It isn't really a rule but again more of a common courtesy.
Also, The-Captain That guy is a class act. Nice, friendly and efficient. :good::good::good:
anasdcool71 said:
It's in the XDA rules to be nice to other members, whether new or old.
Suppose a noob has bricked his phone, and creates a thread asking for help. In many cases of not searching, i advise users to search, but in these particular cases, i give 'em a link to the specific thread too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it isn't in the rules to be nice per se. But Rule #10 does say,
10. Help others if you can
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
******
Giving a link is great and I do it all the time. But where does that cross the line of you doing their searching for them. I find if it is obscure enough, i will give a link, but the Department of Redundancy Department questions don't get such treatment, if you know what I mean.
loneagl said:
What I do when users keep posting ETAs/refuse to oblige when told politely - I usually post a image showing what I mean.e.g.facepalm for repeated ETA.it seems to work because-
1.the user seems embarrassed on seeing an actual expression of a person in the image e.g.facepalm.
2.more effective than a wall of post.
3.stands out, no need to read.
4.based on same principle of pie-diagrams, frequency polygons, bar diagrams - more attractive, more efficient.
"your lips move, but I cannot hear what you're saying..."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have done this more often than not. A simple picture can change the whole attitude of the thread. But not some stupid meme that has a personal attack or durogotory in any manner. I have one picture of a kid sticking a butter knife into a wall outlet and it say "nOOb" on it. Something as simple as that can change the tone and the OP wil make light of it and figure out where he went wrong. Sometimes not though and I have had it backfire on me a few times as well. But then in my next post, I would gently explain why I posted a picture and then guide them in the right direction. Some people tend to remember the visual, so the next time they want to start a thread, they may in-fact remember my picture and not the 4 pages of flaming they received.
KidCarter93 said:
I don't think they will either, but it's worth a try.
Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now you have an SM and FSM.
Edit::: One thing that I forgot to mention was the shear numbers we have here. At any given time there are between 35 & 50k users online. That's huge. If you Google anything about mobile/tablets, XDA is almost always at the top and at the very least top 5. That is some tough numbers we're dealing with.

That's really a big multi-quote! And quite a big explanation!!
||I'm just a PM away for help||
---------- Post added at 08:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 AM ----------
Actually it isn't in the rules to be nice per se.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose it is under rule #2.5. And also under rule #10, as you stated.
||I'm just a PM away for help||

Develop Bugs

welcome