~~~Welcome to the Android Development Forum for the HTC Vision & HTC Desire Z.~~~
I am TheRomMistress (or TRM for short), your Forum Moderator
I am here to help in anyway I can, so please contact me if you have any suggestions, problems, comments, etc. with this forum. While I cannot promise you will get an immediate resolution, or that I will be able to act on every suggestion, I can promise it will receive my attention.
With that being said, Please take a moment to review XDA forum rule. Anyone found intentionally violating these rules will be punished.
The most important "rule" I urge you not to forget is, HAVE FUN and BE COURTEOUS! Thank you and I look forward to keeping "ORDer" and "Peace" throughout the forum.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
What is development?
de·vel·op·ment
[dih-vel-uhp-muhnt]
–noun
1.
the act or process of developing; growth; progress: child development; economic development.
2.
a significant consequence or event: recent developments in the field of science.
3.
a developed state or form: Drama reached its highest development in the plays of Shakespeare.
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Some of you will have a problem with these rules (those are the ones who need to ingrain them in their tiny brains and deal with it like adults), others will be thankful for them (those are the ones that deserve lots of hugs and kisses, not from me of course). In either event, I expect everyone to follow these rules equally, this includes Junior Members, Members, Senior Members, Developers, Recognized Developers, and even Moderators. No one is above these rules.
While I understand there will always be situations that require a different view on the matter, or a more thorough examination, this does not mean the action taken is inappropriate or unwarranted.
Search before creating a new thread/post.
Do not create a thread in Development just to ask a question.Post in Q&A instead.
Do not create a thread in Development where no developing is actually going on. This includes pre-release ROM threads with no download link.
Treat everyone how you would like to be treated.
Do not go into another ROM thread for the purpose of putting down the Developers work or to boost traffic to another ROM thread.
Links to manufactorers release of source code are not considered development. Post these in General.
Always use propper title formatting when releaseing something in the Development forum. See below.
If you disagree with my action, please PM me so that we may discuss things in a civilized mannor. If needed, I will seek out help from a Senior Moderator.
There are many different age groups using this site, in any case, use comon sence when posting and keep in mind the following: "would I want my grandmother reading this?"
If you are having an issue with another member, please report the post/pm in question rather then handle the matter on your own. We have tools available that you do not.
Take it like a man...even if you are a woman, child or Alien.
Slandering another member will NOT be tolerated.
Spam WILL NOT be tolerated
Failure to cooperate with a Moderator WILL NOT be tolerated.
Laziness WILL NOT be tolerated.
Posting non-development threads in the Development forum will only be tolerated once.
Disregaurd of these rules, as well as XDA Forum Rules WILL NOT be tolerated.
*** Disclaimer***
I reserve the right to modify these rules at any time. These rules written in print will not limit my action if your offence is not described in detail above.
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Read and search before posting a new thread
Redundant threads will be closed or DELETED without warning...even lead up to a BAN!!!!
|| Forum Rules || Forum Search || Google Forum Search || Forum Advanced Searching ||
[REF] Read this before posting new ROM threads!
In order to keep Desire Z & Vision Android Development fora clean and avoid multiple threads for one ROM please do the following:
When posting a new ROM release or a link to a new ROM release, DO NOT create a new thread unless it is a completely different ROM.
If you are posting an update, please edit the active thread instead of creating a new thread. Include the following details:
[ROM][LANGUAGE][DATE]rom name and version (Build)[STATUS]
Thank you for your help in maintaining a clean and effective fora.
Rules updated. Now there should be NO QUESTION what is expected from this forum.
g1doobie said:
this broad takes herself way to serious. its a forum on the internet. get a life
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These rules are used throughout XDA. I am definitely not the only moderator who follows them. Just because this is the internet, does not mean you have free reign to do whatever you want. If that were the case, these forums would be even more difficult to navigate. Again, if you do not like them, you do not have to be here.
Hello fellow XDA-Users,
I have been a member of this forum for quite some time now, and currently spend my time in the Optimus 2X section.
People from there might recognize me from my guide on how to build cyanogenmod7 from source and some bits and pieces
from the O2X section.
Some of you might know, that LG delayed the update for this phone quite a bit, which brings me to the purpose of this
thread: The amount of spam and Off-Topic in the general section as well as the development section has blown up
insanely over the last 2-3 months, and this has caused a lot of tension between users and mods, among users and of course
users and devs. While, in case of the general section, this might be bearable, it is not for the dev section, since the real
devs can't work properly because all the useful information gets buried under the same questions and off-topic again and again.
Just recently, a mod was required to close a thread containing bleeding edge information and made it clear that he had no
intention of reopening it again.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about this, and I want to dump my thoughts for a solution in this thread. While
I don't know to which degree these can be implemented or if they might contradict the philosphy or user-rights of XDA,
I still want to post them. These ideas apply first and foremost to the dev section. I see the dev section as a read-only
section for anyone that doesn't have anything to contribute towards the development, no matter how long he has been
here or how many posts he already made. Therefore I propose the following mechanics to keep the dev sections clear of Spam.
Allow only recognized developers, contributors and the other verified ranks in the forums to start threads in the dev section.
This prevents off topic threads from being created in the first place. If someone new really wants to start a new thread because
he really has something useful to share, I imagine some sort of verification process where users can submit their threads and
moderators, or maybe even the parties allowed to post already, to review and approve the topics. This will create additional workload
on the moderators, but I believe it won't be that much more compared to the endless reports they are receiving right now. Also, allowing
a larger base of users (recognized contributors/developers) to approve the topics will reduce the workload even further.
To prevent the spamming of existing threads, apply the same strategy as mentioned above with the following changes:
For a specific threads, the thread starter (and possibly a list of users defined by the thread starter) can either approve single
posts or users in general to being able to post in the thread. The user, after being approved, will be able to post freely in the
thread, or maybe even in all threads by the approving thread starter.
I know these are very strict rules, but since they are only applied to the dev sections, I think they are worth considering, since it
will reduce all posts made in this section to those really dealing with dev stuff. Like I already mentioned, it may increase the workload
on whatever mods/users will have to approve. This gave life to my idea of expanding this userbase to the recognized developers/contributors
as well.
I see that my concept is anything but precisely laid out, but I think it represents a good base to create a system, that will make the
dev sections of this forum what they used to be: A place where developers can develop without having to read through pages of spam and
off topic and thus be more productive and less pissed off. The approval also puts another step into the process of thread/post creation
that might make users reconsider if they really want to post or perform a simple search first.
Thanks for your time!
Also, in order for this thread to be recognized, please give it a good rating. Thank you.
aMpeX
edit: Just to make myself clear again, this approach is far from perfect, but I believe with some input and discussion, we can make it so.
Please feel free to post your opinions, corrections or extensions to this idea.
I will try to collect some ideas from the discussion to summarize it here:
Inspired by anasdcool71's post:
Give OPs the opportunity to decide whether they want to moderate their thread, or accept any comment that is made during thread creation
by ticking a checkbox for example.
Hear, hear. I have said almost exactly the same thing myself before now and couldn't agree more with your thoughts. It's not an ideal solution, but maybe XDA need to take an uber-strict approach to stop this destruction by its own users.
this topic needs ofc a lot of discussion, expecially since i know neither about the capabilities of the code nor how the owners of XDA want to approach it.
I feel by starting this discussion we can iron out a system that works.
I feel that there is simply no other solution than being a little strict on the dev sections. Users still have enough room to post in the other sections, but in the dev sections, where all the magic happens, this is not helping at all, so I think it makes sense restricting these sections in that manner.
The 2 features are quite good, but still there are certain restrictions.
For the 1st point :-
You said that RCs, RDs and other verified ranks should be allowed to create a thread. Well, most RCs have been given the rank because of their polite and courteous nature throughout the site, and some of their work on guides, ROMs and kernels. RDs are kinda the same, just that their work is an expert one. So basically Senior Members or Members create threads for their ROMs and kernels in the dev section, and then if their work is good enough, they are appointed as RCs and RDs as per the requirement. So this feature cannot extend to only RCs and RDs as it may block the opportunities of other members to become one. Even if a Senior Member is allowed in this feature to create a thread, many good rom devs, who might be new to XDA, may feel the frustration to complete not 10, but 100 posts!
For the 2nd point :-
The OP of the thread might not know the user himself so he might not choose users correctly. Some users holding only the Junior Member or Member title might know a lot of info about that particular rom/kernel. Furthermore, this feature will really prove tiresome for the OP as there will be a lot of users waiting for his/her approval. And as far as the case for spam goes, the OP may inform the particular mod to remove the posts.
anasdcool71 said:
The 2 features are quite good, but still there are certain restrictions.
For the 1st point :-
You said that RCs, RDs and other verified ranks should be allowed to create a thread. Well, most RCs have been given the rank because of their polite and courteous nature throughout the site, and some of their work on guides, ROMs and kernels. RDs are kinda the same, just that their work is an expert one. So basically Senior Members or Members create threads for their ROMs and kernels in the dev section, and then if their work is good enough, they are appointed as RCs and RDs as per the requirement. So this feature cannot extend to only RCs and RDs as it may block the opportunities of other members to become one. Even if a Senior Member is allowed in this feature to create a thread, many good rom devs, who might be new to XDA, may feel the frustration to complete not 10, but 100 posts!
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I know this approach wasn't the best. My chain of thaught was simply to try to restrict the userbase that can start a thread. To enable non RDs and RCs to start threads, I included the idea of an approval by either MODs and/or RDs and RCs. After a user has been approved once, he retains the right to start threads and post in the dev section.
I guess my bigger picture is to build a welldefined group of users allowed to post in the dev section, and also easen the way for this group to include new members, since I believe creating a new verified group and manage applications is just too much work.
anasdcool71 said:
For the 2nd point :-
The OP of the thread might not know the user himself so he might not choose users correctly. Some users holding only the Junior Member or Member title might know a lot of info about that particular rom/kernel. Furthermore, this feature will really prove tiresome for the OP as there will be a lot of users waiting for his/her approval.
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This is also a weak point of my proposition, my idea was to provide some sort of inbox where OPs can see the posts submitted and simply approve the ones he deems fit, thereby weeding out the useless information and SPAM. It is a lot of work ofc, but I, for one, would prefer a clean and moderated dev thread over one bloated with Spam.
Maybe one could let the OP decide which model he wants his thread to follow by, by simply ticking a checkbox during thread creation.
Interesting idea.
I believe I've brought up all of the above suggestions at some point or another (not dismissing or anything, just I have looked into this for a long period of time, several years now in fact!)
I'll try to summarise the benefits and disadvantages of each key suggestion:
1) Allow only "Recognized *" and above to make new threads in dev.
I'd love nothing more than this... The trouble is users wouldn't want it! They will complain if we implement this, since not every developer on XDA is an RD... Some may not have applied, some may have applied but not had it processed yet. Others may have applied and been accepted (but we only add the users to the RD group once per month to reduce time spent on it), and some may have been rejected for not meeting the criteria.
This would end up upsetting more people than it would benefit, causing more arguing and bickering from them
2) Restrict who can post in a thread.
This is what we already aim to do with the 10 post rule. The trouble is that if we raise it, it keeps out genuine contributors. If we lower it, we get crap through. Right now, we think 10 is about the optimum, but that's not to say we're not adverse to ever changing it if needed.
The issue with giving the OP control over who can post is that some people would abuse this. For example, I don't imagine many devs who would "approve" posts critical of their ROM, or giving negative feedback on it. Part of the way XDA works is it ensures that every thread is outwith the control of its owner, so feedback isn't being hidden or removed because it isn't agreed with by the OP of the thread. That's why XDA doesn't follow the trend of a few other sites to give thread owners moderator abilities in their own threads.
We've got a team of mods who are impartial and can deal with issues without considering if a post is "beneficial" to user perception of the developer or not (like a dev would do if he was approving posts).
We do constantly try to think of new ways to solve these problems, and you've given me a few new ones to think about
Thanks
maybe then we should focus on the part of my idea that easens the entry into the group of users that are allowed to posts, not necesarily tieing it to the RC RD status, but unblocking the restrictions individually and extending the committee to administer these admissions from MODs and Admins to RD/RCs.
This would require a one-time effort by new devs, submitting their new ROM/thread to the dev sections, and having it approved by aforementioned group.
pulser_g2 said:
2) Restrict who can post in a thread.
This is what we already aim to do with the 10 post rule. The trouble is that if we raise it, it keeps out genuine contributors. If we lower it, we get crap through. Right now, we think 10 is about the optimum, but that's not to say we're not adverse to ever changing it if needed.
The issue with giving the OP control over who can post is that some people would abuse this. For example, I don't imagine many devs who would "approve" posts critical of their ROM, or giving negative feedback on it. Part of the way XDA works is it ensures that every thread is outwith the control of its owner, so feedback isn't being hidden or removed because it isn't agreed with by the OP of the thread. That's why XDA doesn't follow the trend of a few other sites to give thread owners moderator abilities in their own threads.
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I agree totally about the 10 post limit.. As i have seen many examples of the spam/useless post by newbies/noobs who post in dev section... As our samsung galaxy y duos dev section when created had not got this restriction on it (just an accidental miss i feel).. but its corrected now.. so i have seen how worse it may get if this limit is revoked.. and i have been thinking of an idea as many times i have come across new users complaining that they know about android stuff and they wanted to help dev in development and by the time they complete 10 useful post routine valuable time will be wasted etc... So i thought of this idea when i read the op's message in this thread...
How about providing OP a option to exclude a newbie member who has not made a single post yet to make posts in dev section..? So that if the dev feels/knows the user will be good for his thread and he can contribute to development?
and lets also put another rule to keep spammers away.. as there is a loop hole in my suggestion.. which is when a spammer may create 2 accounts and in one account he will obtain 10 posts and create a thread in dev section.. then spam the thread with another account by making him exception..
So we can add this option to OP of the thread only if the thread has been say one month / one week old... as this will make sure that the thread is not created for spamming and thus it also ensures actual development is going on in the thread and the dev is known.. this exclusion is only for that thread on dev sub forum.. i dont know this may be a too much workload on server..
I was suggesting this exclusion method because i have seen around 5-10 members who PM me whenever they have some issue with my kernel or any other rom related to my device for that matter... i am happy and i have no issues to help them at all.. i have also kindly suggested them to make 10 valuable/useful posts in Q & A section and post in my threads instead of M as it might help other users too who may have same issue/doubt.. but i really cant say it directly into their faces and they may not understand my point ... so i have been interacting with such users through PM and i feel they should have interacted more with forums instead of just one person.. and there might be many others who might have contacting through PM only..
So please consider this..
Also this really is a great suggestion too...
anasdcool71 said:
@pulser_g2 - The if-else statement in your sig is really great. :good:
And I've come up with a request. I've seen that many new users don't actually know/get the reason behind the 10-post limit. I'm not talking anything particularly about spammers, but there are some good users who just don't know the reason. I've just seen so many posts in so many threads saying "this 10-post limit is so frustrating","i have to PM the dev","i can't even report a bug",etc. Not one or two or 10, but many posts like this. So my request was that they'd be directed to that thread "10-post count limit in development fora", after they register. I'm sure many of them will understand. After all, it isn't that hard to get to 10 posts.
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Click to collapse
It's an eternal problem than,us, Admins,Mods and all Recognized Tribe against which we are constantly fighting.
In the RC'stribe, we try to think and are trying to find solutions that would enable to reduce the number of useless posts.
I says reduce, cause we can't delete all of these posts.
But the real problem, it's a mentality problem due to Internet.
Actually, with Internet, people can and wanting all, now and quickly. I'm writing a question, I want my answer now!
A large majority of users don't take the time for read and seek. They want everything quickly and now.
And against this fact, we cannot fight!!
For whoever mentioned it, the ten post message does link and explain why... But nobody reads it...
pulser_g2 said:
For whoever mentioned it, the ten post message does link and explain why... But nobody reads it...
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Click to collapse
Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
philos64 said:
Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
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Click to collapse
i think he means the 10 post limit sticky thread is already linked and also its explained why its there but still no new user reads it..
philos64 said:
Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
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I mean that someone mentioned perhaps making it clearer to users why they can't post etc...
I replied to say that the message already explains this and links them to a thread with information
pulser_g2 said:
I mean that someone mentioned perhaps making it clearer to users why they can't post etc...
I replied to say that the message already explains this and links them to a thread with information
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry @pulser_g2
But I understand what you mean
It's better clear. Thanks
Hello!
First off, allow me to welcome both new and existing members to the Forums. These look to be exciting products, and I am really hoping to see a great community spring up here. As we like to do with a new forum, we like to introduce ourselves. Of course, as noted, the moderating team assigned to the forum include:
Team Leader/Senior Moderator @Moscow Desire
Forum Moderators @Siberian Tiger, @stamatis, @chrisd1a1, @Divine_Madcat @zacthespack
Personally, i am an avid tablet user, and am currently using both an HP Touchpad and Nexus 7 (2013), as well as a Samsung S4. Please make no mistake, while we all may not be owners of this specific device, it is our goal to be a strong part of the community, and i hope you will allow us this opportunity. I, like the other moderators, have an open door policy, and i welcome anyone to contact myself (or other staff members) to contact us if you have any concerns or questions about the forums (but please direct device specific questions to the Q&A forum).
With that said, i would like to take a moment to reiterate the overall guidelines of the forum, in the hope to prevent issues down the line...
1. Posting in the Development Forum. Creating new threads in the Dev Forum is restricted to development work; this may include Kernels, Root tools, ROMS, and other device developments. If you have a question about a ROM or the device, please post in the Q&A forum, so that the question may be answered correctly.
2. Arguments and Flaming.This really speaks for itself, but bears saying again. Be respectful, and be a community; work together and make this a place that is welcoming to everyone, new and old. If an argument starts, DO NOT participate in it. You have a "Report Post" button. Use it. Let the Mod's take care of it. You are not moderators, so please don't act like it. You don't make anything better by participating, and you may find yourself in trouble as well.
3. Please take a moment to search before posting; forums for popular devices can get hectic, and it is only made worse by having 5 different threads on the same topic. While mistakes happen, we need everyone's help to make sure that the boards are readable and usable for everyone. Odds are, if you have a problem, you are not the first person to have had the issue; you may very well find the solution already discussed. If a thread covering your topic is already there, please keep the discussion in that thread.
4. We are all here to help the users, and to mainly help continue the development of the devices. This is a Development site, not Facebook or other social networking sites. While some off topic banter is to be expected, please keep off topic conversations in the appropriate area; this is especially true for development threads. Too much OT makes threads hard to use for people with real issues/suggestions/questions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also have a read of our Forum Rules
If you have any issues or questions, please feel free to contact us via PM. You will find the moderator links at the top of each main forum.
Have fun, and lets make a great community!
Hello!
First off, allow me to welcome both new and existing members to the Forums. These look to be exciting products, and I am really hoping to see a great community spring up here. As we like to do with a new forum, we like to introduce ourselves. Of course, as noted, the moderating team assigned to the forum include:
Team Leader/Senior Moderator @Moscow Desire
Forum Moderators @Siberian Tiger, @stamatis, @chrisd1a1, @Divine_Madcat @zacthespack
Personally, i am an avid tablet user, and am currently using both an HP Touchpad and Nexus 7 (2013), as well as a Samsung S4. Please make no mistake, while we all may not be owners of this specific device, it is our goal to be a strong part of the community, and i hope you will allow us this opportunity. I, like the other moderators, have an open door policy, and i welcome anyone to contact myself (or other staff members) to contact us if you have any concerns or questions about the forums (but please direct device specific questions to the Q&A forum).
With that said, i would like to take a moment to reiterate the overall guidelines of the forum, in the hope to prevent issues down the line...
1. Posting in the Development Forum. Creating new threads in the Dev Forum is restricted to development work; this may include Kernels, Root tools, ROMS, and other device developments. If you have a question about a ROM or the device, please post in the Q&A forum, so that the question may be answered correctly.
2. Arguments and Flaming.This really speaks for itself, but bears saying again. Be respectful, and be a community; work together and make this a place that is welcoming to everyone, new and old. If an argument starts, DO NOT participate in it. You have a "Report Post" button. Use it. Let the Mod's take care of it. You are not moderators, so please don't act like it. You don't make anything better by participating, and you may find yourself in trouble as well.
3. Please take a moment to search before posting; forums for popular devices can get hectic, and it is only made worse by having 5 different threads on the same topic. While mistakes happen, we need everyone's help to make sure that the boards are readable and usable for everyone. Odds are, if you have a problem, you are not the first person to have had the issue; you may very well find the solution already discussed. If a thread covering your topic is already there, please keep the discussion in that thread.
4. We are all here to help the users, and to mainly help continue the development of the devices. This is a Development site, not Facebook or other social networking sites. While some off topic banter is to be expected, please keep off topic conversations in the appropriate area; this is especially true for development threads. Too much OT makes threads hard to use for people with real issues/suggestions/questions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also have a read of our Forum Rules
If you have any issues or questions, please feel free to contact us via PM. You will find the moderator links at the top of each main forum.
Have fun, and lets make a great community!
Hello!
First off, allow me to welcome both new and existing members to the Forums. These look to be exciting products, and I am really hoping to see a great community spring up here. As we like to do with a new forum, we like to introduce ourselves. Of course, as noted, the moderating team assigned to the forum include:
Team Leader/Senior Moderator @Moscow Desire
Forum Moderators @Siberian Tiger, @stamatis, @chrisd1a1, @Divine_Madcat @zacthespack
Personally, i am an avid tablet user, and am currently using both an HP Touchpad and Nexus 7 (2013), as well as a Samsung S4. Please make no mistake, while we all may not be owners of this specific device, it is our goal to be a strong part of the community, and i hope you will allow us this opportunity. I, like the other moderators, have an open door policy, and i welcome anyone to contact myself (or other staff members) to contact us if you have any concerns or questions about the forums (but please direct device specific questions to the Q&A forum).
With that said, i would like to take a moment to reiterate the overall guidelines of the forum, in the hope to prevent issues down the line...
1. Posting in the Development Forum. Creating new threads in the Dev Forum is restricted to development work; this may include Kernels, Root tools, ROMS, and other device developments. If you have a question about a ROM or the device, please post in the Q&A forum, so that the question may be answered correctly.
2. Arguments and Flaming.This really speaks for itself, but bears saying again. Be respectful, and be a community; work together and make this a place that is welcoming to everyone, new and old. If an argument starts, DO NOT participate in it. You have a "Report Post" button. Use it. Let the Mod's take care of it. You are not moderators, so please don't act like it. You don't make anything better by participating, and you may find yourself in trouble as well.
3. Please take a moment to search before posting; forums for popular devices can get hectic, and it is only made worse by having 5 different threads on the same topic. While mistakes happen, we need everyone's help to make sure that the boards are readable and usable for everyone. Odds are, if you have a problem, you are not the first person to have had the issue; you may very well find the solution already discussed. If a thread covering your topic is already there, please keep the discussion in that thread.
4. We are all here to help the users, and to mainly help continue the development of the devices. This is a Development site, not Facebook or other social networking sites. While some off topic banter is to be expected, please keep off topic conversations in the appropriate area; this is especially true for development threads. Too much OT makes threads hard to use for people with real issues/suggestions/questions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also have a read of our Forum Rules
If you have any issues or questions, please feel free to contact us via PM. You will find the moderator links at the top of each main forum.
Have fun, and lets make a great community!