IF YOU WERE GIVEN A LINK TO THIS THREAD BY ANOTHER MEMBER OF XDA IT'S PROBABLY FOR A GOOD REASON!
PLEASE HEED THE WARNING, TAKE A LITTLE LESSON IN POSTING ETIQUETTE, BEFORE YOU ARE REPORTED TO A MOD, IF THAT HAS NOT ALREADY HAPPENED.
Far too often people post in threads without thinking of the developers feelings and it's becoming a big problem!
Think of it this way!
You just spent countless hours working building your new custom car.
Now your such a nice guy you let people take it for a drive and check it out for FREE!
How would feel if they come back and most LOVE IT and appreciate the work you've done but,,
some say..
"It uses too much gas"
"It's way too slow"
"It hesitates when I tow a tractor trailer"
"I Hate the colors"
If you were the developer sharing your hard work for free and reading comments like that, you would think, Dam What a ^%*&%^*& *&^*&^, why am letting people trash my hard work!?! Heck with this, I don't need this!
THINK A LITTLE BEFORE POSTING!!
In stead of saying
"This ROM sucks the life out of my battery"
Try
"How is everyone's battery life on this? I'm getting 10 hours with 2 hours screen on time. This is my 3rd battery cycle, I'm on WIFI 90% of the time. I installed BetterBattery Stats and it shows xxx. Any recommendations / ideas? Also did A Clean with a full wipe, did not flash and mods / kernels" Even better add a Logcat, you may find in the logcat that X app is checking your location every 2 seconds and shows up 1000 times in the log.
In stead of saying
"This sucks! Every time I open the camera it crashes"
Try
"Is anyone else having this problem? For some reason every time I open the camera app it crashes. I tried redownloading the ROM, double checked the MD5, did a clean install, full wipe, and let it sit for 10 min after 1st boot then rebooted. Attached is the Logcat I grabbed using CatLog from the play store"
Look at that! That way your not assuming that the developer messed up! And you may actually be being helpful by providing a Logcat so he can actually look into the problem.
Making statements without providing information is,, well rude and not helpful to anyone!
And worst of all, it can discourage or drive the Developers away!
If you were smart enough to be able to make your own ROM - Kernel you would not need the Developers help, and could fix it yourself!
Most of us do not have the time and or brains to be a developer!
So PLEASE show some respect to the Developers that are kind enough to share their work with us for FREE!
Hit their Thanks Button often, and consider buying them a Coke or Redbull aka Donate :highfive:
Same basic principal goes for when you reply to someone!
IMO if the question has already been asked and answered, quote the last answer. Or the part of the OP with the answer.
Better yet quote a few of the last times the question was answered and show that you can use the search feature.
To me, if you can show me the question has been answered 3 times already, I feel like a fool with egg on my face and will STFU.
Smart comments and rude answers, even just saying, use search, usually just leads to more useless comments and bickering for all of us to read through!
If you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say anything! Just move on
Next time you see someone posting like a jerk, try to provide a nice helpful answer and direct them to this post for a little lesson and consider reporting the post!! See next post for more info!
Please get with the program or expect to be reported and possibly banned for a period!
This includes asking or hinting at an ETA! Don't do it!
On that note here are a few words form Woody about reporting trouble makers
Woody said:
Use your best judgment. We don't need gestapo type reporting, but you get the idea of what is needed.
It would behoove (yes I said behoove) people to maybe look at how a report is done. My buddy TonyStark had put a thread together a while ago on how to use the Report function. {Guide} Getting a Moderators help. I also have it linked in my signature, as well. It can be intimidating a bit when you hit that button. Hopefully this will help.
One thing that I might add regarding the reluctance to report you posted above. All reports are anonymous. Only people who know the names are us (Mods) and the User who reported it. Not the person who is being reported (unless you, yourself post in the thread "Reported")
*********
Now at this point, I think that we have strayed from what this thread is trying to accomplish. Posting with Proper Etiquette. Let's turn it back to that, so that when people who are linked back here will understand why. You can always shoot me a PM if you have a question or anything like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And for crying out loud please learn to Logcat! There are apps for that that can make it easy.
Plus in my never to be humble opinion, if you can't logcat, you should not be flashing anything!
Also read this!
And I recommend reading the following from Recognized Contributor TonyStark
So you are tired of being called a noob - I want to shake the noob status
First and most important, read this New User Guides
Q: How do I contact a forum Moderator for -fill in the blank- on a problem with -fill in the blank-
I have been on XDA for years and have always found these steps to be the best. Not only for you but for the process as well. Please remember to be patient. If you do not receive a message (shown in 4) within 5 days, please re-post.
1) In the upper right hand corner OF EVERY POST you will find this.Click on the caution sign.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
and now in 2013 format
2) Please fill the pertinent information into this screen. PLEASE do not make it personal or use colorful language. Just be brief and to the point
3) You need to make a selection in the drop down. PLEASE do not be overzealous in choosing a topic. In 95% of cases you will only need to choose Other - Non-urgent
4) You will receive a message
In most cases this will be followed by a resolution.
Hope this helps​
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
A lot of people need this
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Maybe a sticky is needed here.
Jelly419 said:
Praise!
Cool story, bro!
They call me "Jelly" cuz jam don't shake like this!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ktetreault14 said:
A lot of people need this
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully the people that need it, actually read it!
Help out and stick this thread in your sig, or direct the people who need it here!
I'm beyond tired of seeing good developers leaving or getting pissed off by posts from people who post without thinking 1st!
Seriously, that's some kindergarten level basics...
CitrixLemon said:
Seriously, that's some kindergarten level basics...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would think so!
But sadly we have all seen them and way too often.
I think some people just forget themselves sometimes, at least I would like to think not that many, are that rude, all the time.
I agree with what the OP is saying, however Devs also need to keep in mind there are many "not so savvy" Android users who wouldn't know how to run a logcat, even though they may have learned some of the basics of flashing. I think sometimes (and I'm not making excuses) some Devs are a little hot-headed and need to remember that there are always idiots out there who can ruin it for the rest of us.
Easy to just add the offending user to the ignore list.. instead of screwing over the people who are treating the Dev with respect.. just saying..
But yes, I still agree with the OP.
sswb27 said:
Maybe a sticky is needed here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not likely BUT this does give me an idea about something a little more (un)official that we could post and stick. I'm going to write something up and pitch it to the team and see what they think and refer them back to this thread.
I like the idea, but it has to be as general and vanilla as possible and cannot be black and white, otherwise it won't work.
jangst123 said:
You would think so!
But sadly we have all seen them and way too often.
I think some people just forget themselves sometimes, at least I would like to think not that many, are that rude, all the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have no idea my man. No idea. You should see some of the stuff we deal with.
ingenious247 said:
I agree with what the OP is saying, however Devs also need to keep in mind there are many "not so savvy" Android users who wouldn't know how to run a logcat, even though they may have learned some of the basics of flashing. I think sometimes (and I'm not making excuses) some Devs are a little hot-headed and need to remember that there are always idiots out there who can ruin it for the rest of us.
Easy to just add the offending user to the ignore list.. instead of screwing over the people who are treating the Dev with respect.. just saying..
But yes, I still agree with the OP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like everything about this post. Some people need to be handheld just a bit longer so they can take their first steps. It is Pete and Re-Pete that are the problems.
In the old days, it was Logcat or GTFO. Then the stone got ground down a bit, then a bit more and now we are here. We are trying to make things more Developer oriented and to make it so that Devs are more cherished than they are now, but it all stems from how to get Users to realize this. Hopefully some guidelines and better n-etiquette will help to usher us back to those days.
I've known jangst123 for a long time, so I know that he is very passionate about this and wants the threads to be filled with awesome ROMs but also the community at-large to be a great place to get help, cool mods or bleeding edge development. I think that we all really want that, right? So let's make it happen.
Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.
Really this falls back on the xda community as a whole, I know I've posted things before that could have been worded in a way that would have better served the user and the community, instead of my own cynicism or ego.. none of us are perfect, that includes the Devs.
The best way I see it, now that I've been around the block. You can't take the internet serious anymore. It's difficult to always convey someones personality over text, without emoticons and "lol's" and ":good:" or ":highfive:"... I'm a prime example of that. I try to say lol, or put a winky face or what have you, but I try and get to the point and tell them its a few pages back... orrr I give them 10 links and tell it 'em took me 5 minutes to do that. I'm no search wizard or anything like that, I just use keywords and then read through things. The users that want things handed to them on a gold platter are a large issue at hand. I would go as far to say as 75% of the questions asked in a dev thread, are in the OP in one way shape or form. I have a q&a thread for Cm10 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1813456 with 10.1 info (which is almost of use to all 4.2 roms out there)... I have a resource guide http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2088179 Which I'm still ironing things out (should do that today actually, haha) and I have a q&a for Illusion 4.2 rom http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2106546 which for the time being pertained to AOKP and Vanilla Rootbox for the most part. People have looked and looked over them for the most part and still ask the most redundant questions in the dev threads, and open new threads with stuff that I've covered already. If it's something I haven't covered, I answer them respectfully almost every time, and/or point them to a thread that will help them. This needs to be done more often to stop the unnecessary posts, which turn into bashing threads, which turn into more work for the mods. I agree with the OP, some devs will take things to heart and walk away and we are down more person or team that will help us with our phone "needs" ... Devs and themers and such just have to look at it this way... "You can't please them all"-some wise man... And I think I ranted long enough. LUNCH TIME!!!
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
We are doing way better than what was done on the t989 Hercules forums. We should keep it that way. At least til there is a real s4
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
mt3g said:
The best way I see it, now that I've been around the block. You can't take the internet serious anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This pretty much sums up all these, in my opinion, useless threads/posts. In one concise sentence.
Guys, we don't need a thread for common sense. People who lack common sense won't have sense enough to read the thread. In other words, you are preaching to the choir. This solves nothing.
Enforce the current forum rules. Ban, or at the very least, suspend idiots. Need more moderators, we don't have anywhere near the amount we need. Two to three moderators for each device forum. None of this would have happened. Rules aren't enforced, plain and simple. Rules that are not enforced will be ignored. Do you drive the speed limit? No. Why? Because the rule isn't enforced.
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
Woody said:
Not likely BUT this does give me an idea about something a little more (un)official that we could post and stick. I'm going to write something up and pitch it to the team and see what they think and refer them back to this thread.
I like the idea, but it has to be as general and vanilla as possible and cannot be black and white, otherwise it won't work.
You have no idea my man. No idea. You should see some of the stuff we deal with.
I like everything about this post. Some people need to be handheld just a bit longer so they can take their first steps. It is Pete and Re-Pete that are the problems.
In the old days, it was Logcat or GTFO. Then the stone got ground down a bit, then a bit more and now we are here. We are trying to make things more Developer oriented and to make it so that Devs are more cherished than they are now, but it all stems from how to get Users to realize this. Hopefully some guidelines and better n-etiquette will help to usher us back to those days.
I've known jangst123 for a long time, so I know that he is very passionate about this and wants the threads to be filled with awesome ROMs but also the community at-large to be a great place to get help, cool mods or bleeding edge development. I think that we all really want that, right? So let's make it happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Logcat or GTFO,, o the good old days!
I would love to see a thumbs up and thumbs down on each and every post.
And if your thumbs down is lower or than thumbs up, you can no longer post in development threads.
This would allow the community to police the threads and force people to think twice before posting.
But that is probably too complicated of a system change.
SO
Would it be possible to keep a ranking of sorts?
Something that checks posts to thanks count.
And you must have at least 1 thank for every 3 posts, to post in in anything other than general. Maybe even include the number of thanks given out in the equation.
Something needs to change.
Repeated questions are completely different than people being rude jerks.
Most of the repeated questions are a bit different than being rude. Repeated questions are probably best answered by quoting the last time it was answered. That way everyone can see it's been answered. And the poster should feel the egg on their face. Or by quoting part of the OP when needed.
I for one am willing to help in any way I can. Just let me know how I can help.
I don't have all that much spare time, I have a business to run, so I try to contribute and encourage developers by donating phones and cash to them. On the occasion I have some spare time and I come here to get away and get my crack flash on.
To see Developers get discouraged by rude posts, drives me crazy!
For now I'm pming offenders and kindly suggesting they read this thread.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
Meh.... The rude and ignorant on tech forums of today are just the newest generation of AOL "me too"ers from yester-year. You couldn't take them seriously either.
I for one am grateful for those that pave the way in new arenas for me.
Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2
ingenious247 said:
Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. I absolutely despise people who post, "LEARN 2 USE SEARCH/GOOGLE" instead of simply providing whatever link or help the person is looking for, especially when it's a simple thing like how to get root.
ingenious247 said:
Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.
Really this falls back on the xda community as a whole, I know I've posted things before that could have been worded in a way that would have better served the user and the community, instead of my own cynicism or ego.. none of us are perfect, that includes the Devs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your absolutely correct!
Responding in that way often starts a flame war.
If ya ain't got nothing nice or helpful to say, don't say it.
Quote the last correct answer to the question, or answer the question politely and move on.
Don't stir the pot.
Anything else often leads to 10 or more useless posts to read through.
I for one often don't have the time to read though all the extra crap that gets posted every time someone gets their feelings hurt.
I did not create this tread to address all the issues on XDA.
I created it to have a thread to point to when I come across the poster that needs a lesson in Posting Etiquette.
And hoping in doing so it would not anger the poster but help educate them a little.
So I would appreciate it if we can keep the discussion to, Posting Etiquette and how to nicely respond to those that need a lesson.
I will edit the OP later to include response etiquette.
lol,, just realized in my haste I spelled Etiquette - Ediquette :silly:
unfortunately, stuff like this happens in almost every other device forum across XDA. it's stuff like this that makes us stop wanting to dev, stuff like this can even tear a development Team apart, as it almost did with Team Inferno. those who came from the MyTouch 4G know what i'm talking about. Team Inferno faced many haters, people who just wanted to do everything in their will to destroy a newborn team. it takes a bunch of endurance and encouragement, and i thank all those who supported Team Inferno, those who could see potential in a Team of noobs like us. we all start somewhere, nobody wakes up one day and decides "i'm going to be a dev" and by nightfall pushes out the best ROM/mod/kernel ever seen.
end users need to realize that we developers are not here to serve you. you don't pay us for the stuff we push out. we do it in our own free time, because we want to, we have an interest and a hobby.
to developers: don't get butthurt because of one or a couple of know-it-alls, there are people out there that will try to push you down. if you get pushed down by them, you're the only one hurt, they may even laugh at you. don't fall into their trap! because at the end of the day, you're not developing for others, you're developing because you want to, it's your hobby, and you want to share your work with others.
TL;DR?
read the whole thing you lazy butt.
"Stop biting the hand that feeds you." I agree with the OP 100000%. Devs are intelligent people. They don't need to stoop to bull****.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
---------- Post added at 04:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 AM ----------
saranhai said:
unfortunately, stuff like this happens in almost every other device forum across XDA. it's stuff like this that makes us stop wanting to dev, stuff like this can even tear a development Team apart, as it almost did with Team Inferno. those who came from the MyTouch 4G know what i'm talking about. Team Inferno faced many haters, people who just wanted to do everything in their will to destroy a newborn team. it takes a bunch of endurance and encouragement, and i thank all those who supported Team Inferno, those who could see potential in a Team of noobs like us. we all start somewhere, nobody wakes up one day and decides "i'm going to be a dev" and by nightfall pushes out the best ROM/mod/kernel ever seen.
end users need to realize that we developers are not here to serve you. you don't pay us for the stuff we push out. we do it in our own free time, because we want to, we have an interest and a hobby.
to developers: don't get butthurt because of one or a couple of know-it-alls, there are people out there that will try to push you down. if you get pushed down by them, you're the only one hurt, they may even laugh at you. don't fall into their trap! because at the end of the day, you're not developing for others, you're developing because you want to, it's your hobby, and you want to share your work with others.
TL;DR?
read the whole thing you lazy butt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, thank you for your work on XDA.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
jangst123 said:
Logcat or GTFO,, o the good old days!
I would love to see a thumbs up and thumbs down on each and every post.
And if your thumbs down is lower or than thumbs up, you can no longer post in development threads.
This would allow the community to police the threads and force people to think twice before posting.
But that is probably too complicated of a system change.
SO
Would it be possible to keep a ranking of sorts?
Something that checks posts to thanks count.
And you must have at least 1 thank for every 3 posts, to post in in anything other than general. Maybe even include the number of thanks given out in the equation.
Something needs to change.
Repeated questions are completely different than people being rude jerks.
Most of the repeated questions are a bit different than being rude. Repeated questions are probably best answered by quoting the last time it was answered. That way everyone can see it's been answered. And the poster should feel the egg on their face. Or by quoting part of the OP when needed.
I for one am willing to help in any way I can. Just let me know how I can help.
I don't have all that much spare time, I have a business to run, so I try to contribute and encourage developers by donating phones and cash to them. On the occasion I have some spare time and I come here to get away and get my crack flash on.
To see Developers get discouraged by rude posts, drives me crazy!
For now I'm pming offenders and kindly suggesting they read this thread.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 Logcat or GTFO days! Those were the days!
Adding a link to my sig! Hopefully someone will read it, but I doubt the jerks that cause the problems will take the time to read it. They already know it all.
Now that I think about it, I don't post that often to begin with, so i doubt anyone will see mys sig, but i will give it a try.
I like the,, BAM Hammer idea, lol
It would be great if we could hit the thumbs down on their post and somehow vote them off the island!
Related
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
deathcipris said:
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your comments. If you think the degradation of threads now is bad, they were worse before the 10-post rule. Also, the timing thing is a Server Load balancing attempt. This site have 15,000+ users at any one time., that takes a lot of server load. Finally, we have a group of 60 moderators to cover a forum of 4million users. We can't be everywhere, this is where you can help. If you see an issue you can PM the forum specific mod. or click the report button.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
deathcipris said:
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well imo the 10 post rule should be a 100 post rule.
New users have absolutely no business posting in the dev section. 9/10 they simply ask something that has already been asked before a million times over in the roms thread of they create a topic when they or anybody else shouldn't be creating topic in there in the first place, The dev section is for posting of work/reference only.
If you are a new user you can use the general forums or Q&A's if you need help you have no real need to post in dev section.
The rule was to stop n00bs posting crap and polluting the threads. Its hope that the time they have made 10 posts they will have a little more knowledge and the delay has given them the time to read the most basic guides on how to do thing or to at least found the search button.
1second, just let me get this right..
a user for just 4 months.. and he posts this as his first opinion about XDA, thats not good, thats not good at all
deathcipris said:
pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup, someone needs to actually do something about this.. (hint, no? ok...)
ill bring this to the attention of Admins today for you dude, i think that he will find this post very interesting...
i think this is @ rule 2.3 but not sure if it would fall under that or trolling, anyway a rep of the dev is destroyed by these sort of snide remarks/name calling comments so i think you have a very good bloody point.. "It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are!".....
(oh wait, i remember where.. they are out banning the devs and their hard work for rule 9..)
@JimmyMcGee's
no acknowledgment from a you to OP that something will be done about this issue.. (no looking into it or nothing)
just saying, eg "click the report button" is not good enough because OP has clearly told you where and what the problem is..
OP has reported this issue to you, a mod
Rn
raving_nanza said:
ps, 10 post rule is for bots, not noobs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr no it isnt. How do you work that out? lol
How in anyway would it stop or halt a bot?? And since when has bots been a issue specifically in dev forums??
@TheATHEiST oh well, i thought id read it somewhere.. must have been mistaken..
Rn
raving_nanza said:
...snip..
@JimmyMcGee's
no acknowledgment from a you to OP that something will be done about this issue.. (no looking into it or nothing)
just saying, eg "click the report button" is not good enough because OP has clearly told you where and what the problem is..
OP has reported this issue to you, a mod
Rn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought I did. But I can be more direct if you please.
Moderators need your help. Which is why I asked for people to report problems they say. That being said, we are always evaluating forums to see if we need to allot more moderator resources to a particular forum. Again, we evaluate reported posts that come in to see if a forum is "getting out of hand." So it behooves you again to report posts. Also, you can contact the Administrators or the Moderators. And sometimes we do see with our own forum browsing that a forum needs help, but we can't be everywhere. We are constantly trying to improve XDA, and we always recommend your feedback.
FEEDBACK:
Admins know about this thread to show them OPs post.
The only reason i have picked up on this is because we are already speaking to the Admins about these issues, well.. something in relation to this issue.
i think it would be wise to place Forum Specific mods in the Android Rom Development.. for ALL devices, its the only way to stop this "trolling".
This kind of behaviour is not acceptable, its already got out of hand, and i aint even a Mod to know that - so who evers role it is to be in the Android forums, aint doing a good one
Rn
JimmyMcGee said:
Thank you for your comments. If you think the degradation of threads now is bad, they were worse before the 10-post rule. Also, the timing thing is a Server Load balancing attempt. This site have 15,000+ users at any one time., that takes a lot of server load. Finally, we have a group of 60 moderators to cover a forum of 4million users. We can't be everywhere, this is where you can help. If you see an issue you can PM the forum specific mod. or click the report button.
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Click to collapse
Ok. 60 mods for 4M users? Failure in the recruitment dept. for sure.
And if your way if encouraging users to report posts means the crippled report post functionality - sorry, you really do NOT encourage reporting, you do exactly the opposite. (Worse yet, you actually like not getting the reports, as the now closed thread about this issue confirms.
Signal/noise ratio extremely bad ATM, sorry.
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App
doktornotor said:
Ok. 60 mods for 4M users? Failure in the recruitment dept. for sure.
And if your way if encouraging users to report posts means the crippled report post functionality - sorry, you really do NOT encourage reporting, you do exactly the opposite. (Worse yet, you actually like not getting the reports, as the now closed thread about this issue confirms.
Signal/noise ratio extremely bad ATM, sorry.
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
conantroutman said:
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Yeah, thanks for proving my point. Not to mention - quite a couple of people have already confirmed on the original thread that it does discourage them pretty heavily - but of course sticking your head into the sand rocks here, so lets just lock the thread )
Once again:
- Go recruit more moderators (60/4,000,000 == absolute fail!)
- Once done - go and uncripple the report code, i.e. - go use the darned DB information you already have in some way. Yeah really, you already have the information who is your forum-specific moderator, so use it! Oh really, I do mean it, use it - do not force people to dig into some ultrastupid Google Docs document with moderators list (why on earth you cannot use HTML at least is a question in itself). I really do not have time for your "distinguish" games. Do make use of what you have to make the process efficient, not to make it suck like hell as you have done.
P.S. And - while looking @ my PM. We do NOT need some nonsensical Like/+1 buttons or any of that ridiculous social-networking bubble crap, really. Definitely not until you sort out the above and replace the search with something working that does not confuse people like hell and gives them relevant search results.
I agree, that having to PM a moderator several times a day is not ideal.
Personal Example: At least over in the EVO 4G development forums, you have several [Q] posted daily despite a sticky saying not to and update rules sticky saying not to do such. On top of that, you have the flaming, personal attacks, and other hostile users daily as well.
I know out of three mods, I've only ever received a response or acknowledge from one. And that one is the only one I've ever seen take action to a thread that gets reported by myself and others. I don't always expect a response, but it does add a bit of a personal connection.
It became so out of hand, that I just gave up and had my main developer account deleted and I moved my work else where.
Wow 60 mods. Hum a bit short there don't you think. A forum this size needs allot more than that, especially if the admin want it to be " the premiere android site'
sent from my bolt
I can't speak for the admins of the site, but I do know that managing a large group of moderators is not easy...the overhead is already huge...adding a significant amount more may help solve one issue, but others then arise from this.
Trust me, we are currently in discussion about refining the system...please just be patient.
Calm down.
The site grew very big, very quickly. With such explosive growth, a shortage of moderators was expected. While I agree it's frustrating at times, it's temporary. A moderation drive has just concluded, and some vacancies are sure to be filled out of this, which will at least relieve some of the pressure.
You will never see, nor would you be able to maintain, the level of professionalism we all see as ideal for XDA. There are too many users, too many recruits, and too many variances in opinion and viewpoint. It's not going to happen. Likewise, no one user will ever be 100% happy with the current setup. Just be happy you have a place to come and source the exceptional material on offer.
Also, your first post should never be in a Development forum. Ever. The '10-post Dev forum' rule is the best thing ever, because it gives you at least ten minutes before people come in and start 'thanking' the dev or filling the thread with idle chatter, threats and pathetic arguments.
If you truly believe your first post should be in a Dev forum, you definitely possess the nouse to do some charity work and help ten poor souls in the Q&A forum first. Earn your stripes.
/rant
Refine all you want, but honestly as long as the mods/ admins allow users to post ad they have been, ie derogatory statements so called devs posts mods named "rapist", and using illegal drug names for their themes mods etc , users and respectable devs will continue to leave. Oh i know report them, wait a few weeks month what have you for someone to get around it.
sent from my bolt
I would like to weigh in, as a new user, but long time lurker. I did not like the 10 post rule, as I had some things I wished to post directly to a couple of threads of ROMs that I had been using, after thoroughly researching and finding relevant background information. I was frustrated that I could not post where obviously appropriate, and had to post a question on a general question forum instead of on the obvious thread that I should have.
I see the value in a n00b not getting to post, but for someone like me that has some experience, it was frustrating. However, after giving some thought, I went around, and looked for questions that I could answer, ways I could quickly contribute some value. In hindsight I could have done a better job, and probably done it quicker.
Anyway, I might have missed it, but in looking around as a new user desiring to post, it wasn't obvious to me that was a useful way to pass my 10 posts...I was thinking I needed to wait until I had 10 good reasons to post stuff in a general forum, so I quietly waited...and then I had the epiphany.
I guess this long post is just me trying to point out, it might be useful to guide some of the slightly less n00bish but new users to a more useful path of trying to answer a few questions possibly, to get their post count up It certainly would have caused this user to have that epiphany earlier, and maybe been less frustrated. For what it's worth, after my epiphany, I have no problem with the 10 post rule.
Cheers
RoboCuz
abn75 said:
Refine all you want, but honestly as long as the mods/ admins allow users to post ad they have been, ie derogatory statements so called devs posts mods named "rapist", and using illegal drug names for their themes mods etc , users and respectable devs will continue to leave. Oh i know report them, wait a few weeks month what have you for someone to get around it.
sent from my bolt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, I know the themes and mods you speak of and yes, I agree, not 100% user friendly. Sitting back on your laurels and letting it happen isn't the answer to seeing XDA becoming more productive, though.
At least if you report, you've done 'all you can' to help. Not much, but something
TheATHEiST said:
Well imo the 10 post rule should be a 100 post rule.
New users have absolutely no business posting in the dev section. 9/10 they simply ask something that has already been asked before a million times over in the roms thread of they create a topic when they or anybody else shouldn't be creating topic in there in the first place, The dev section is for posting of work/reference only.
If you are a new user you can use the general forums or Q&A's if you need help you have no real need to post in dev section.
The rule was to stop n00bs posting crap and polluting the threads. Its hope that the time they have made 10 posts they will have a little more knowledge and the delay has given them the time to read the most basic guides on how to do thing or to at least found the search button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and it is this attitude by the older members that gives the forum the reputation as not user friendly. Both noobs and experts alike could do better in that regard.
conantroutman said:
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta disagree. Minor issues are not being dealt with at all on the forums I visit and quickly get out of control. Lost 2 devs in the last week due to it.
the_scotsman said:
I can't speak for the admins of the site, but I do know that managing a large group of moderators is not easy...the overhead is already huge...adding a significant amount more may help solve one issue, but others then arise from this.
Trust me, we are currently in discussion about refining the system...please just be patient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and controutman are 2 of the most active mods I've seen on xda. I don't know that I've even seen our general mod even post or address any issue. I think that might be the problem. Not to mention that only 1 mod in any forum means that 90% of the time, you have no mod.
juzz86 said:
Calm down.
The site grew very big, very quickly. With such explosive growth, a shortage of moderators was expected. While I agree it's frustrating at times, it's temporary. A moderation drive has just concluded, and some vacancies are sure to be filled out of this, which will at least relieve some of the pressure.
You will never see, nor would you be able to maintain, the level of professionalism we all see as ideal for XDA. There are too many users, too many recruits, and too many variances in opinion and viewpoint. It's not going to happen. Likewise, no one user will ever be 100% happy with the current setup. Just be happy you have a place to come and source the exceptional material on offer.
Also, your first post should never be in a Development forum. Ever. The '10-post Dev forum' rule is the best thing ever, because it gives you at least ten minutes before people come in and start 'thanking' the dev or filling the thread with idle chatter, threats and pathetic arguments.
If you truly believe your first post should be in a Dev forum, you definitely possess the nouse to do some charity work and help ten poor souls in the Q&A forum first. Earn your stripes.
/rant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely disagree. I don't think this forum has grown that rapidly. It has been around since winmo smartphones. The focus has just shifted.
Now general forums are full of custom ROM related questions specific to one ROM (and usually not listed in the title). Maybe there needs to be a subsection of the dev section for questions related to specific ROMs. I've always thought that the most appropriate place for ROM related questions is that ROM. It just seems like the "experts" don't want to help the "noobs" out anymore. Yes it gets tiring answering the same question over and over again, but berating every new member for not being able to search a huge forum correctly is not the answer.
RoboCuz said:
I would like to weigh in, as a new user, but long time lurker. I did not like the 10 post rule, as I had some things I wished to post directly to a couple of threads of ROMs that I had been using, after thoroughly researching and finding relevant background information. I was frustrated that I could not post where obviously appropriate, and had to post a question on a general question forum instead of on the obvious thread that I should have.
I see the value in a n00b not getting to post, but for someone like me that has some experience, it was frustrating. However, after giving some thought, I went around, and looked for questions that I could answer, ways I could quickly contribute some value. In hindsight I could have done a better job, and probably done it quicker.
Anyway, I might have missed it, but in looking around as a new user desiring to post, it wasn't obvious to me that was a useful way to pass my 10 posts...I was thinking I needed to wait until I had 10 good reasons to post stuff in a general forum, so I quietly waited...and then I had the epiphany.
I guess this long post is just me trying to point out, it might be useful to guide some of the slightly less n00bish but new users to a more useful path of trying to answer a few questions possibly, to get their post count up It certainly would have caused this user to have that epiphany earlier, and maybe been less frustrated. For what it's worth, after my epiphany, I have no problem with the 10 post rule.
Cheers
RoboCuz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the problem. People that don't have your common sense will hit that 10 post limit so fast, it is not really a hinderance.
For instance:
"lol 10char" is such a common phrase these days, I think people are using ctrl "v" do paste it on every thread...
I think the biggest problem with xda is that the smartphone community has gotten more immature. Before it was full of business users and techies that could afford a 500 dollar toy. Now everyone has one (including my 7 and 10 year olds) which means a much younger user base which to me are immature. And some of them are our best devs, but get their feelings hurt much easier.
nrfitchett4 said:
...snip...
I think the biggest problem with xda is that the smartphone community has gotten more immature. Before it was full of business users and techies that could afford a 500 dollar toy. Now everyone has one (including my 7 and 10 year olds) which means a much younger user base which to me are immature. And some of them are our best devs, but get their feelings hurt much easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree here, and this is something we have to deal with. I started on this Forum Back with WM6, so I've seen the change. And it definitely has caused a new user management learning curve. We are learning as we are going. It's not perfect, but we are not just sitting around doing nothing.
I wonder if I can solicit hard answers.
How many mods should we have?
How do we manage that many mods to ensure similar reactions from Mods?
How do we manage mods managers?
How do we implement this without having a large bureaucracy that slows down response time even more?
These are some of the questions we are dealing with. Believe me, I don't want anyone to thing we are ignoring their concerns, in fact many of us mods have the same concerns, but there are no easy answers. We are working through them Anyone is free to PM me with their concerns.
Also, you, as members of the forum are integral to the success of this site, if you see no action from your assigned Mod, please, let us know.
I just really don't understand.. I have been reading though many different threads for a long time now (lurking cuz I dont have any issues to report on) but thats not the point of my post right now...
most people are helpful and respectful and thats what we fellow android lovers should be about, BUT then there are some people that are just straight up A-holes... and people in the android community wonder what is happening to XDA as a whole... just read through pretty much any thread and you can see it...
we are all here to HELP not FLAME!!! we are NO better than others cuz we know more or have more posts, big deal, we all started out at post count 1... alot of times I wonder how old the people on here really are? cuz they act like high schoolers... again, the majority is a good group of people but alot of people need to check themselves... i hate to say it(not really) but everyone is going to rootzwiki and android central for this reason alone... DISRESPECT... think about it.... seriously, just think about it.
If we, or anyone who honestly gives a sh** wants to restore this site to its former glory, then first start showing respect!!!
/END RANT
This thread is for voicing opinions/issues ONLY!!! Rumors will not be allowed and NO flaming tolerated!!! thanks
THIS. Over in Fascinate land, we're losing our best developers as well as some VERY helpful "average users" due to an apparent surge in all-around immaturity and stupidity. Thing is, in my 27 years, I have yet to find a community (online or not) bereft of the "our community's dying!" mentality.
Wherever you have people, you have politics; wherever you have politics, you have conflict. While it's frustrating to see highly valued contributors moving on, we can still follow (and learn from) their continuing efforts while remaining part of XDA ourselves. The Internet's handy like that, but it's a double-edged sword: the masses always follow the content they desire and migrate as needed. The devs are our content providers, but donations and "Thank You" buttons can only go so far to outweigh general Internet shenanigans / douchebaggery.
Basically, I am confident that the greater XDA community will continue to thrive as long as the vast majority of users continue to conduct themselves appropriately and remain intersted in the subject matter. There'll always be petty squabbling and "shocking" departures, but it takes more than that to truly ruin a community.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
Omnichron said:
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
ssethv said:
I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
MartyLK said:
I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Jazz848 said:
Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very true. But there are some who are not children who are just as disrespectful as some of the younger ones.
ssethv said:
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Though it is possible such disrespectful people could have valuable info, I would rather not use it anyway. I'm funny that way. If someone disrespects me, nothing they do is liked. And I personally don't consider anything from them of use.
Thanks for the compliment. It was an addition when I started using the ignore list.
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
@orb3000
Thanks for the feedback... I never feed the fires of a flame... I am here for two reasons only... to get info (by READING or using the search tool) and to help other people out...
I am looking forward to "said" changes coming to the site
tek818 said:
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
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Click to collapse
I somewhat agree with you... but we all started at post count 1, and were all noobs at one time... everyone that enters this site should be treated with dignity and respect. unless, the are undeserving of it, then as Marty said "block them"
but i understand exactly what you mean.. and it can be annoying at times. thats when i go smoke a cig or take a breath and break from the computer for a while.
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are going on my block list. Sheesh, flaming on a thread about stopping the flames. Shame on you!
LOL.... i cant stop laughing, you just made my day a little better
ssethv said:
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
When you're the kind of person who does things like, say, read all 800 pages of a thread (and weeding out al the useless posts) so you're sure to be up to date, then someone waltzes in and asks a question for the 100th time... it's just incredibly frustrating. For every user that does that, there's one that has come in quietly and found the information on their own, which means the information CAN be found. Heck, I was able to find it. I know it's out there. I earned it and they want it for free. So how many lazy so-and-sos should I give it away to before I get a bit irate? Frustration is instantly doubled if the post is in a Development thread.
We're all standing on the shoulders of those that have gone before us. Problem is, some n00bs don't seem to care if they kick the guys under them in the nuts on the way up. It gets old.
But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
mrkite38 said:
The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
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Click to collapse
well said, and I understand and agree with you... I am low on my post count on this site becuase I do use the search tool and EVERY singe question known to man has been asked and answered on this site, thats why I lurk and reseach, so I don't ask the same question again... I am on Android Central and know exactly what you mean. I was asked to be a moderator but turned it down cuz I don't always have the time... I mainly try to create guides/fixes/tutorials for the thunderbolt rooting roms and hacks section.
thanks to everyone for there thoughts and replies thus far, hopefully some more people will read and take to heart all of our opinions and issues
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, especially the bold part. But the current system in place doesn't help us report any problem posts. I've been here since 2007 (in fact the only other older person in this thread is you) and just comparing what was back in 2007 to now, the problem is worse with hot tempered devs and or members in general. Like I said the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
And while I agree that the site is mostly created by developers for developers, everyone started on page 1. Everyone started asking questions. I understand that some devs (and members) will get frustrated after the same question is asked over and over. But there isn't any need to go off the deep end. The same goes for any member. In the time that one wastes making a post flaming the member, they could have reported it or better yet, provide the answer.
I've gone through threads with hundreds of pages to get an answer, but seeing so many with flames, arguments and nonsense forces those that rather not deal with it to ask the question even if it was asked before.
Now mind you, I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere. Its a fine line to cross. Now, what the solution or middle ground is, is anyone's guess. Hopefully the upcoming changes will be a start. But in the meantime, I for one will continue to report anyone that is out of line regardless of post count or title.
TS out
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true!!!
the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully this idea will be considered by the mods, its a good idea!!!
I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
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Click to collapse
well put... thanks for contributing to this thread... I want this to get the wheels turning, I love this place and hate what is and has happened to it...
New report post system is on the way pretty soon
Anyone that has been reading the Dev section or been in the IRC chat has probably seen plenty of flaming going on by some people that think they're Elite compared to everyone else. If you think another chatroom would be nice for users to get help when needed without fear of getting banned, flamed, yelled at, told to STFU, ridiculed or more, then let's set it up.
XDA is about a community of users and devs helping each other to tweak their phones as a hobby. Let's get the friendliness back into these forums and start helping each other out.
There's quite a few options for IRC chat, EFnet, Undernet, Mibbit, Freenode, etc. What's everyone's preference? I'm also voting myself NOT to be an Op, I have limited time available between working 50-60 hours a week, having time for my wife and kids, and doing Android app development on the side.
-Daryel
If I can ever help. PLEASE don't hesitate to ask.
Great post....
Rob
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Excellent idea.
I've also wondered if it might be helpful to have a separate E4GT Q&A forum (similar to what's set up for the international SGS2):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1148
geekaren said:
Excellent idea.
I've also wondered if it might be helpful to have a separate E4GT Q&A forum (similar to what's set up for the international SGS2):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1148
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once we have 1,000 threads in General or 10,000 posts in General we'll be able to split that out - XDA rules.
Glad to hear a Q&A forum will be an option in future.
Thanks, jerdog!
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
Perhaps if everyone searched for their issue, took some initiative, and did some research before posting they would get flamed a lot less.
henbone11 said:
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, I know I was banned for asking why an Op didn't update his thread to make things a little more clearer so there would be fewer questions on it. It's when 4 other people jumped into the conversation and started calling me an idiot, a f-ing indian, and more that things went way overboard.
It's not just me though, look through all the chat logs and you will see a repeated pattern of attacks by anyone coming into the chat room to ask about the LOS problem, or wants to ask about Rev B, or has a question about a ROM. It's usually 1 or 2 Ops jumping down the user's throat telling them to "STFU" and then kicking them out.
Anyone voicing their opinion usually gets kicked if it doesn't match the opinions of the Ops. I'm sorry, but the playground has been taken over by a bunch of bullies that sit waiting to tell someone to F-off. That's why we're looking at possibly making a new playground. If you don't like it, don't come. If you want to discuss this more, do it in PM.
-Daryel
henbone11 said:
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I wasn't privy to what you are referring to, have to agree that in general this is a very true statement. I'm not taking sides here at all but in my experience this is a common concern across the boards, regardless of devices.
XDA is a development community but we would be nothing without a user base. We need to lead by example and do our best to be patient with those that are new to the game. We were all there once.
With that said, as a newer user you have a responsibility to research, read, search and read some more before you start asking questions that have been answered over and over again. I'm a patient guy and I love helping people that need help but it honestly does get a bit rough when people don't take the time to at least try to learn before bombarding you with questions about your ROM when the answers are in the OP. If the user would have taken the time to read they would have found what they were looking for. You have to understand that you are one of many people asking the same questions over and over again. So if your met in an unpleasant way, sometimes thats why. Not that it makes it right but maybe just a bit of insight.
We need to all work together and make this community worth participating in.
At the end of the day, all this stuff is about a phone. Trust me, there are much bigger and more important things in life to worry about than a phone......
Well hit 1ooo threads by the end of the week
But there is probably 1oooo post by now
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
xak944 said:
Perhaps if everyone searched for their issue, took some initiative, and did some research before posting they would get flamed a lot less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You make a great point, but it doesn't matter. Someone could ask a question after spending days searching for an answer and still get flamed. These no way to know if someone has taken the time to search, so people that are really trying to learn and have put the time in themselves are getting lumped into the same group as those to lazy to use the search button.
Actually, I was present in irc for the exchange.
I had the same confusion as daryelv with regards to the question he was asking, and it's not because "i cant red gud." In fact, if daryelv hadn't asked the question, then I wouldn't have flashed the rom due to the confusion. So I, for one, benefited from the clarification.
But when he pointed out the source of the confusion, he did get flamed and it did turn racist. It's too bad, because it was all really over an outdated sentence in the rom thread disclaimer, and it was pretty unnecessary.
I get the hard work that devs put into their projects; I wouldn't want to be bothered with dumb questions either. But there was a genuine confusion and a lack of receptiveness in hearing about it.
To be honest, douchebaggery is rampant at most android forums. Take a gender at the CM7 port for the touchpad thread at rootzwiki.
Ill credit it to the expansion of android
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
fadetobolivia said:
Actually, I was present in irc for the exchange.
I had the same confusion as daryelv with regards to the question he was asking, and it's not because "i cant red gud." In fact, if daryelv hadn't asked the question, then I wouldn't have flashed the rom due to the confusion. So I, for one, benefited from the clarification.
But when he pointed out the source of the confusion, he did get flamed and it did turn racist. It's too bad, because it was all really over an outdated sentence in the rom thread disclaimer, and it was pretty unnecessary.
I get the hard work that devs put into their projects; I wouldn't want to be bothered with dumb questions either. But there was a genuine confusion and a lack of receptiveness in hearing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had this very same discussion back in the Epic 4G forums earlier in the year. Something that everyone needs to understand is that the developers are no better than anyone else. Everyone in the community plays a role.
I would argue that the developers should be setting the example of how to conduct one's self and not fall victim to the god complex that has affected some of us. I always throw my friend k0nane under the bus at times like this not because of anything he has done wrong but because of the example he sets. He is easily one of the best developers I've met and yet he treats everyone with respect and affords them the dignity that they deserve.
There will always be a-holes out there but if you lower yourselves to there level than your no better than they are.
As developers, we need to remember that we are no better than anyone else. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect whether they are developing or simply asking an honest question.
Please remember that the Epic Touch 4G is only a phone. Life is way bigger than this and if the biggest thing you have to worry about is flashing a phone than count yourself lucky.
This is way to early in the cycle to have the forums going down the toilet. Take control back and lead by example. You should NOT be afraid to ask a question, especially if you tried to find the answer or simply need clarification.
While I'm far from the best developer I do always try to respond to everyone's questions and PM's. Hit my up on my blog and send me an email. I'll get back to you when I can. Please don't ever be afraid to ask me a question.
Let's keep this community moving forward.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
daryelv said:
Oh, I know I was banned for asking why an Op didn't update his thread to make things a little more clearer so there would be fewer questions on it. It's when 4 other people jumped into the conversation and started calling me an idiot, a f-ing indian, and more that things went way overboard.
It's not just me though, look through all the chat logs and you will see a repeated pattern of attacks by anyone coming into the chat room to ask about the LOS problem, or wants to ask about Rev B, or has a question about a ROM. It's usually 1 or 2 Ops jumping down the user's throat telling them to "STFU" and then kicking them out.
Anyone voicing their opinion usually gets kicked if it doesn't match the opinions of the Ops. I'm sorry, but the playground has been taken over by a bunch of bullies that sit waiting to tell someone to F-off. That's why we're looking at possibly making a new playground. If you don't like it, don't come. If you want to discuss this more, do it in PM.
-Daryel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's because all of these things have been answered, or there's a thread dedicated directly to it. It takes only a few seconds to search. I'm not a dev and I already find it irritating seeing 5 new threads about the same thing every day. If people would simply search on the forums, or even do a quick Google search, I'm 100% sure they'll find the answer to any questions about any of the topics you just brought up.
ptfdmedic said:
I had this very same discussion back in the Epic 4G forums earlier in the year. Something that everyone needs to understand is that the developers are no better than anyone else. Everyone in the community plays a role.
I would argue that the developers should be setting the example of how to conduct one's self and not fall victim to the god complex that has affected some of us. I always throw my friend k0nane under the bus at times like this not because of anything he has done wrong but because of the example he sets. He is easily one of the best developers I've met and yet he treats everyone with respect and affords them the dignity that they deserve.
There will always be a-holes out there but if you lower yourselves to there level than your no better than they are.
As developers, we need to remember that we are no better than anyone else. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect whether they are developing or simply asking an honest question.
Please remember that the Epic Touch 4G is only a phone. Life is way bigger than this and if the biggest thing you have to worry about is flashing a phone than count yourself lucky.
This is way to early in the cycle to have the forums going down the toilet. Take control back and lead by example. You should NOT be afraid to ask a question, especially if you tried to find the answer or simply need clarification.
While I'm far from the best developer I do always try to respond to everyone's questions and PM's. Hit my up on my blog and send me an email. I'll get back to you when I can. Please don't ever be afraid to ask me a question.
Let's keep this community moving forward.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theoretically, no devs aren't better than anyone else. Realistically, yes they are. They are the people who spend hundreds of hours (unpaid) doing something that directly benefits you. I'm sure they get hundreds of the same question every single day that they've answered already. If I were a dev, spending all my time doing something for other people, then get spammed with messages because someone is too lazy to spend a few seconds of their time (when I'm spending hours of my own) searching the forums, I'd get pissed too. Have you ever donated to a dev? Have you ever even said thank you for all of their hard work? Why are the only things devs get repetitive questions and complaints?
Anyone with questions about Odin, flashing, or need help finding an apk you accidentally deleted or just have a general question, PM me anytime. It wasn't very long ago that I had to search to see what root was. Ask anyone with an Epic..I will help out in any way I can so don't hesitate to ask. On a side note, I sure am glad ptfdmedic got an ET4G...pure class and he was the same way on the Epic threads as well. That's why everyone over there respects him so much.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
i dont know what exactly happened in the IRC, buuut like someone posted earlier... there are two sides of the story so im not agreeing with anybody, BUT i will point this out...
the person asking the question was right in the sense of asking a question because s/he was confused... on the other other hand, i understand ppl here repeat a lot of questions that have an open thread on that very same subject and make devs inpatient but turning this into a racist argument was uncalled for in my opinion... what does being indian, even if the person asking the question isnt one, have to do with being confused?
seems silly to me, cuz being confused DOES NOT have anything to do with color or race! just my two cents....
I don't understand why people have to make racial comments. Not just in Daryl's story but there are other instances I saw. Nobody is better than anyone else. We all come for the same reason. If u can't handle don't log on. It would make the thread less crowded if u answered that repetitive question instead of flaming them. If anyone has anyone questions that they want to ask they can pm me as well. I know JC will go out of his way as well as ptfdmedic. There are more as well.
The Evo3D Killer!!!
musclehead84 said:
I don't understand why people have to make racial comments. Not just in Daryl's story but there are other instances I saw. Nobody is better than anyone else. We all come for the same reason. If u can't handle don't log on. It would make the thread less crowded if u answered that repetitive question instead of flaming them. If anyone has anyone questions that they want to ask they can pm me as well. I know JC will go out of his way as well as ptfdmedic. There are more as well.
The Evo3D Killer!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one said there aren't people out there that are helpful, but continuing to ask the same questions that are asked in threads pretty much daily when there's a search function is pretty frustrating.
I do agree that bringing anything racial (or anything offensive) was incredibly immature and wrong. There's absolutely no reason to be rude, but people to need to be more aware of how to get answers other than spamming devs with the same questions.
You can't ask questions or say good job to the devs in the Dev section? I see people getting butt hurt to the point of insulting other members for asking questions. The rules clearly state that you shouldn't start a thread that does not pertain directly to development but i have yet to see where the rules say you can't comment or ask questions. I can honestly say that i have rarely seen a response in a Dev thread that was directly related to moving the rom forward from a true development perspective. Most of the guys complaining about the rules don't seem to actually understand the rules themselves. Let me clarify.... Starting a thread is not the same as posting within one. There is one rule that most of the forum police seem to always over look and that is 2.3
"2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior."
So before you jump down someones throat about not following rules maybe try taking a look at the rules and make sure you understand them yourself. I'm sure someone will ask how this relates to our phone and the answer is that it doesn't. It does however relate directly to the e4gt community.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
I think the biggest reason people get flamed for asking questions in the dev thread is that they don't follow rule number 1 of the forum rules...
"1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news."
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=17681946
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
The thanks button is there to prevent a ton of low/no content "awesome work" posts. Who wants to wade thru posts like that? I sure don't.
Honestly. Based on the wording of these rules. The dev section should be for releases then locked down. Cause honestly there is very little talk in the dev threads that can be considered development related. Almost everything I have seen in the dev threads since I have been on XDA could really be considered general talk. Let me say too that I'm not opposed to having the dev section only for releases. I think it would be a lot nicer if it was reserved for releases only. Most of the actual dev work takes place on twitter or the IRC from what I've seen. So it wouldn't hender development.
As for people jumping down someones throat for asking a question. Honestly. I think some people just look for a reason to play forum police. I have been called every name in the book. Sometimes I deserved it. Other times I didn't. Just have to ignore it sometimes. If someone sees a post that shouldn't be. Use the report button. If you're happy with a ROM or an answer. Use the thanks button. Google the hell out of ****. Best advice I could give anyone. But I will never agree with someone jumping someones ass for asking a simple question. We were all new to the forums at one time. Unfortunately you can't teach class.
A lot of the flaming, besides chastising outright stupidity, is from these high school aged kids who think of XDA as an extension of their "root cliques" at school. Posting childish memes, and making threads popularity contests.
Your problem is trying to rationalize ignorance.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Its because your taking valuable space from others that have to let everyone know they are "downloading it now!!" instead of giving useful feedback for the community.
Its the me mentality.... Blame society and the educational system.
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
A lot of the flaming, besides chastising outright stupidity, is from these high school aged kids who think of XDA as an extension of their "root cliques" at school. Posting childish memes, and making threads popularity contests.
Your problem is trying to rationalize ignorance.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The probem is you are trying to rationalize flaming. I dont care how stupid a post may be, crapping on someone is childish, and flat out against the rules, whereas what is considered development is pretty gray... I agree with the above that if these lil forum nazis want to keep whining, the Mods should lock the Dev threads only to the Devs, and have a general thread for it... as RIDICULOUS as that is, if it drives these kiddie antics back to Facebook where they belong, so be it.
The funny part, when someone like say iSaint posts a funny meme/pic or new sig, I have NEVER seen anyone complain... its just when you see an opportunity to attack a percieved weakness (asking a question, not being completely up to date on a thread) and capitalize on it... that is pathetic. Some kids need affirmation from daddy or something. Go talk smack elsewhere.
I really think the Mods (not just jerdog, I think its obvious there needs to be a group decision) to clarify the Dev thread rules... seems each device develops its own dynamic for the community, this one needs a little structure not just crazy sheriffs who show up a day late guns blazing. Just clarify what you want to see and dont want to see in Dev threads, so this dispute can be over. It will be sad if theres no humor or fun in this forum because a few people cant figure out how to stay updated on their favorite ROM, and learn to skim threads for info they are actually interested in... but its better than lil internet tough guys.
ungovernable1977 said:
The probem is you are trying to rationalize flaming. I dont care how stupid a post may be, crapping on someone is childish, and flat out against the rules, whereas what is considered development is pretty gray... I agree with the above that if these lil forum nazis want to keep whining, the Mods should lock the Dev threads only to the Devs, and have a general thread for it... as RIDICULOUS as that is, if it drives these kiddie antics back to Facebook where they belong, so be it.
The funny part, when someone like say iSaint posts a funny meme/pic or new sig, I have NEVER seen anyone complain... its just when you see an opportunity to attack a percieved weakness (asking a question, not being completely up to date on a thread) and capitalize on it... that is pathetic. Some kids need affirmation from daddy or something. Go talk smack elsewhere.
I really think the Mods (not just jerdog, I think its obvious there needs to be a group decision) to clarify the Dev thread rules... seems each device develops its own dynamic for the community, this one needs a little structure not just crazy sheriffs who show up a day late guns blazing. Just clarify what you want to see and dont want to see in Dev threads, so this dispute can be over. It will be sad if theres no humor or fun in this forum because a few people cant figure out how to stay updated on their favorite ROM, and learn to skim threads for info they are actually interested in... but its better than lil internet tough guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even I don't post crap in the development section
Must respect it.
And when I was a new member I helped as much as I could answered alotta stuff but it gets repetitive and just ridiculous.
This is a developers site for developers normal people shouldn't even be posting to be honest
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iSaint said:
Even I don't post crap in the development section
Must respect it.
And when I was a new member I helped as much as I could answered alotta stuff but it gets repetitive and just ridiculous.
This is a developers site for developers normal people shouldn't even be posting to be honest
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont get me wrong, I dont have any problem with your humor... just saying that when its funny people tend to forgive off topic, but if its phrased as a question, you are told to piss off... its just really vague. I used to rarely post in Dev in the epic4g forums, as for a long time the threads WERE development... but as we all know, the devs tend to IRC or twitter or whatever... its not in the XDA threads like it used to be. I actually really miss that, I could pop in whenever and learn from the ones who know what they're doing... I really feel weird going to a chatroom at 35 years old, and regardless, dont have time, I have my own real world 5 year old to raise. Anyways, maybe they should REALLY crack down, and if its not DEVELOPMENT it goes in the general forum... I asked a question in the dev thread about how to flash CNA, more clarifying what the preferred method is with the devs, as thats who I usually listen to... and it turned into a flamewar... it was stupid... I should have just walked away, but I have just seen a lot of people get blasted with a dozen posts for something really innocuous... so I decided to say something, and actually I should have paid more attention to which CNA thread I was in... they look the same, just different off topic conversation at any given time! But questions pertaining to the ROM... cant have that... cant have that.
The solution?
How about we lock the development threads after the developer has posted what they needed to? Why don't we also close the Q&A section so people don't start
flamewars about questions being asked multiple times? You know what, we might as well just close the entire forum and make it so only developers can join and share their work together.
This should help you out some:
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5. Post a message only once.
As a large forum we don't need unnecessary clutter, You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time, it might take a while before you receive an answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
15. Keep posts/threads on-topic
Whilst a minor amount of off-topic posting may be overlooked, the general rule is your posts / threads must be relevant to the Forum / thread in which you are posting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA is for development - that's why we exist. We created the extra sections so as to try and head off all the off-topic drivel (and yes, "OMG THIS IS SO AWESOME!" and "I WANT TO HAVE YOUR TWINS!" are off topic) and to try and keep Development as clean as possible. And as is the ongoing nature of the beast, there are people who don't read the rules and go ahead and post anyway. And we can't police everything 24x7 because we are all volunteer.
I think its always gonna be a double edge sword. You need user count to raise value of ads and pay server and any employees Xander may have. But in turn that brings in a lot of non development people.
Now. Since you don't have to have an account to download from the site. That could be good or bad. Good as it gives people a way to download without an account but bad as it keeps user count down and could generate a loss in revenue. I mean something has to pay for all the XDA TV and all the other things that this site has. So I really think that locking Dev sections down to developers only is a good idea. But that brings about another issue. Who qualifies as a dev? What would one have to do. If simply making a ROM and releasing is all one has to do then hell I can do that. It may be stock touchwiz but still it would be a ROM. So there will always be this and that.
I am as guilty as the next guy for posting non dev posts in the development section. That's the one reason I don't flame someone for doing the same.
Any who. That's my thoughts on it.
jerdog said:
This should help you out some:
XDA is for development - that's why we exist. We created the extra sections so as to try and head off all the off-topic drivel (and yes, "OMG THIS IS SO AWESOME!" and "I WANT TO HAVE YOUR TWINS!" are off topic) and to try and keep Development as clean as possible. And as is the ongoing nature of the beast, there are people who don't read the rules and go ahead and post anyway. And we can't police everything 24x7 because we are all volunteer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh there it is... right in the rules...
scarmon25 said:
I think its always gonna be a double edge sword. You need user count to raise value of ads and pay server and any employees Xander may have. But in turn that brings in a lot of non development people.
Now. Since you don't have to have an account to download from the site. That could be good or bad. Good as it gives people a way to download without an account but bad as it keeps user count down and could generate a loss in revenue. I mean something has to pay for all the XDA TV and all the other things that this site has. So I really think that locking Dev sections down to developers only is a good idea. But that brings about another issue. Who qualifies as a dev? What would one have to do. If simply making a ROM and releasing is all one has to do then hell I can do that. It may be stock touchwiz but still it would be a ROM. So there will always be this and that.
I am as guilty as the next guy for posting non dev posts in the development section. That's the one reason I don't flame someone for doing the same.
Any who. That's my thoughts on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In theory you have a point, but before the users there were developers who wanted to share with other developers. If the users went away then there would still be developers and you wouldn't need as much moolah to run the site so you wouldn't need as much hosting, etc.
my Galaxy Note screen is bigger than yours
jerdog said:
In theory you have a point, but before the users there were developers who wanted to share with other developers. If the users went away then there would still be developers and you wouldn't need as much moolah to run the site so you wouldn't need as much hosting, etc.
my Galaxy Note screen is bigger than yours
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. You are absolutely correct. That's why I say its always gonna be a double edged sword. XDA has grown so big that at this point it would be almost impossible to go back to that point. I honestly think that the best way to eleviate the dev section of BS and such would be to implement a a title other then recognized developer that would be reasonable to obtain. And close off dev section to post. Anyone could browse that section. But only people with the appropriate titles could post. That "may" help bring some of the real development back to XDA and off the IRC, twitter, ect.
Its just an idea. And honestly even if it was implemented with a perfect execution there would still be hiccups and issues. I guess it all boils down to with a huge user base. The percentages of dev,classy people,troll, and straight out dicks are going to go up and sometimes out of proportion. It sucks but its just how it is. All it takes is for us users to use the measures in place.
Use the thanks, report buttons and Google/Search **** before posting. And keep the nonsense post out of the dev section. If someone asks a question. Regardless of how many times its been asked. Give a polite answer and kindly direct them to previous post and about where they should post. If its a repeat offender "someone who never searches and constantly post the same ****" use the report button.
But that would be a perfect XDA environment. And we all know the world isn't perfect.
scarmon25 said:
Yep. You are absolutely correct. That's why I say its always gonna be a double edged sword. XDA has grown so big that at this point it would be almost impossible to go back to that point. I honestly think that the best way to eleviate the dev section of BS and such would be to implement a a title other then recognized developer that would be reasonable to obtain. And close off dev section to post. Anyone could browse that section. But only people with the appropriate titles could post. That "may" help bring some of the real development back to XDA and off the IRC, twitter, ect.
Its just an idea. And honestly even if it was implemented with a perfect execution there would still be hiccups and issues. I guess it all boils down to with a huge user base. The percentages of dev,classy people,troll, and straight out dicks are going to go up and sometimes out of proportion. It sucks but its just how it is. All it takes is for us users to use the measures in place.
Use the thanks, report buttons and Google/Search **** before posting. And keep the nonsense post out of the dev section. If someone asks a question. Regardless of how many times its been asked. Give a polite answer and kindly direct them to previous post and about where they should post. If its a repeat offender "someone who never searches and constantly post the same ****" use the report button.
But that would be a perfect XDA environment. And we all know the world isn't perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
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Devi0124 said:
You can't ask questions or say good job to the devs in the Dev section? I see people getting butt hurt to the point of insulting other members for asking questions. The rules clearly state that you shouldn't start a thread that does not pertain directly to development but i have yet to see where the rules say you can't comment or ask questions.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read here please
"Thinking of posting a new thread???
Use the search button on the top bar between "New Posts" and "Quick Links"
If any mod, including myself, continue to find new threads about topics that have threads already existing or [Q] questions in the development forums!
The thread will be locked with no notice and/or up to a temp BAN!!.
Thats the big difference from even a year ago... all the actual development work is being done offsite, either twitter (why I dont know), IRC, or the dev crews own sites. It used to be where the Devs would discuss their work in the Dev thread, and it was totally obvious that if you posted something that wasnt actually developing, you would feel like an ass. But becuase the work has shifted off-site, the dev threads look like ghost towns if everyone follows the rules, AND always errors on the side of not posting... so people not used to this new dynamic start posting 'wheres the update', 'what about adding this feature'..... as they would not be seeing any actual development going on. Just lock down the Dev threads, so theres no debate... if youre actually working on the rom or whatever, the OP/Mods can allow you to post in it... then all the troll minimods get get bent and if they talk **** in general they can get flagged and vacations. If you aren't listen in the OP as a developer working on the project, or maybe beta testing a release for the Devs, no posting! Simple. I think the days of XDA being only devs is long gone, as those devs would move on if they did not have a forum to interact with their userbase... as some have to places where people with bad attitudes get banned before people that god forbid have a question. I agree, do away with Q&A... its more on topic than most crap in general, that way theres a dev (downloads) section, and everything else. they nobody has to worry about 'wah, this thread is cluttered and I wanna vent on people, so im gonna talk **** THEN get the mods to clean it up'. The funny part is the drama is actually being created by those not taking part in these conversations, theyre too busy playing minimod to pay attention. 1 question in a dev thread, directly pertaining to that ROM and that ROM alone, and its answer, even if its and answer and 'search next time' is a lot less than that answer plus 5 different little pricks dictating what they think belongs where.
Your quotes of the rules only highlight the fact that they are vague and outdated, as very little actual development happens here anymore... sorry.
wase4711 said:
If any mod, including myself, continue to find new threads about topics [...] or [Q] questions in the development forums!
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this really can't get any more clear. he is clearly referring to new THREADS, not posts.
I've been around for a little while. I'm not a Dev, Themer, Moderator, Recognized Contributer or anything like that. At best I'm a tester for a great team called Team Venum.
I love this hobby, XDA, and most guys here. This is a great getaway for me from real life. Ya know......my crappy job, bills, yada yada yada.
Here is the thing. These threads that I read everyday. Something that I've always done and continue to do is ignore the BS. The trolls that come in looking for attention. The noobs that ask questions before reading. The guys that have been around for a while and don't read/research before posting in a thread. I ignore it. Move on.
Let's say a guy comes in your favorite thread and asks a question thats been answered a hundred times. So we then call him a di#k and say why don't you read? He then says the thread is 59 pgs and it's too much. Then he takes offense for being called a di#k and lashes back. Then a cpl other guys join in the flaming. Four pages later we need a Mod to come in and smack our hands with a ruler.
Why not just ignore it? Ignore the trolls. Maybe if we ignore the noobs they will take it upon themselves to read and research and find the answer on their own.
I hate seeing threads closed. Mods having to come in and clean threads. Devs getting pissed and moving somewhere else or just keeping their work to themselves because their sick of the drama.
It just seems so simple to me......The next time you see a post by a troll or someone who doesn't take the time to read and research on there own. Then ask a question in the thread to either provoke or just out of laziness.......... how about we just say this......................
Nothing
FAQ per user request.
1.''Can I respond to the OP and thank him repeatedly?''
I believe so.
2.''Is a full wipe required or can I just dirty flash?''
YEP!!
3. ''Is this a ROM?''
Nope
4.''Is the OP a DEV?''
Not yet.
Well said
Sent from my SGH-I747M using xda premium
Not everybody knows how disgusted you guys are at every question. Nothing wrong with helping ... most people are new so forgive them. The truth is solutions for problems change very often even within the same thread.
Every rom has unique solutions for the same problems.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
i agree i would much rather give them the awnser then have them start an other thread asking about it and another noob replying with the wrong awnser , lots of updates and its true with all the pages on cirtian threads it makes it verry hard to find a link or wordign that will help in that pirticular situation , myself i would rather respond and help others out , i kno how frusterating it can be to try and do something when there is no awnser to be found even after searching over and over , sometimes just cant locate the information.
ex-28 said:
i agree i would much rather give them the awnser then have them start an other thread asking about it and another noob replying with the wrong awnser , lots of updates and its true with all the pages on cirtian threads it makes it verry hard to find a link or wordign that will help in that pirticular situation , myself i would rather respond and help others out , i kno how frusterating it can be to try and do something when there is no awnser to be found even after searching over and over , sometimes just cant locate the information.
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Please don't get me wrong guys......... I always help when I can, I think I got a pretty decent ''Thank you'' count going. IDK, I'm usually always mobile. I'm just pointing out the frustrating parts of a thread. I would just like to see some guys move on instead of lashing out if there frustrated at seeing a question asked repeatedly.
It just adds to the flaming.
Some of this could be relieved if people actually updated their first post with relevant information.
I did it for my 90+ page Jelly Bean thread and had NONE of this.
Actually, wait, it happened once. I told him the answer and then said "check the first post, mate." Never happened again.
Most problems would be fixed if the free XDA app had a search option. Just saying. Plus the search doesn't work with the browser.
But I do completely get what the OP is saying. But then again patience and understanding also goes a long way.
Sent from my SGH-I747M using xda app-developers app
Okay I don't normally speak on these types of topics but now I will.
I completely agree and understand. Noobs will be noobs. Heck I am still one.
I started off with a Samsung Infuse, read and read and read and read and READ to learn how to root the dang thing and keep it from bricking. I never flashed something without reading. And I never flashed as soon as something got released!!! Maybe it's just commonsense, or maybe it's the fact that I am intuitive and have been ever since the age of 8 when I built my first PC from scratch. But a lot of it has to do with READING!!! Noobs don't like to READ because they want to know and they want to know NOW. That's the major problem.
I see people saying things about Task and how he is rude. Honestly, I don't think he is because it clearly states in his OP follow the instructions carefully and READ.
Just my $2. I'm not *****in'!
How do i root my GS3?
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TKG26 said:
How do i root my GS3?
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I sincerely hope this is a joke.....
Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2
Of course...
Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2
caspersfi said:
I've been around for a little while. I'm not a Dev, Themer, Moderator, Recognized Contributer or anything like that. At best I'm a tester for a great team called Team Venum.
I love this hobby, XDA, and most guys here. This is a great getaway for me from real life. Ya know......my crappy job, bills, yada yada yada.
Here is the thing. These threads that I read everyday. Something that I've always done and continue to do is ignore the BS. The trolls that come in looking for attention. The noobs that ask questions before reading. The guys that have been around for a while and don't read/research before posting in a thread. I ignore it. Move on.
Let's say a guy comes in your favorite thread and asks a question thats been answered a hundred times. So we then call him a di#k and say why don't you read? He then says the thread is 59 pgs and it's too much. Then he takes offense for being called a di#k and lashes back. Then a cpl other guys join in the flaming. Four pages later we need a Mod to come in and smack our hands with a ruler.
Why not just ignore it? Ignore the trolls. Maybe if we ignore the noobs they will take it upon themselves to read and research and find the answer on their own.
I hate seeing threads closed. Mods having to come in and clean threads. Devs getting pissed and moving somewhere else or just keeping their work to themselves because their sick of the drama.
It just seems so simple to me......The next time you see a post by a troll or someone who doesn't take the time to read and research on there own. Then ask a question in the thread to either provoke or just out of laziness just do this......................
Nothing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post caspersfi.
I agree with just about all of it...... but I personally when someone asks a question I just answer in polite words, even if its already posted. Some people just don't get and need to be pretty much spoon fed. I work at a front desk of a pet hospital and I get some pretty dumb questions from the public since its in a Petsmart. They look for you as the experts and as a resource. They same can be looked at like xda. I was raised in a family to help people no matter the situation before yourself. People honestly need to respect each other and flaming other people wouldnt happen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
caspersfi said:
I've been around for a little while. I'm not a Dev, Themer, Moderator, Recognized Contributer or anything like that. At best I'm a tester for a great team called Team Venum.
I love this hobby, XDA, and most guys here. This is a great getaway for me from real life. Ya know......my crappy job, bills, yada yada yada.
Here is the thing. These threads that I read everyday. Something that I've always done and continue to do is ignore the BS. The trolls that come in looking for attention. The noobs that ask questions before reading. The guys that have been around for a while and don't read/research before posting in a thread. I ignore it. Move on.
Let's say a guy comes in your favorite thread and asks a question thats been answered a hundred times. So we then call him a di#k and say why don't you read? He then says the thread is 59 pgs and it's too much. Then he takes offense for being called a di#k and lashes back. Then a cpl other guys join in the flaming. Four pages later we need a Mod to come in and smack our hands with a ruler.
Why not just ignore it? Ignore the trolls. Maybe if we ignore the noobs they will take it upon themselves to read and research and find the answer on their own.
I hate seeing threads closed. Mods having to come in and clean threads. Devs getting pissed and moving somewhere else or just keeping their work to themselves because their sick of the drama.
It just seems so simple to me......The next time you see a post by a troll or someone who doesn't take the time to read and research on there own. Then ask a question in the thread to either provoke or just out of laziness just do this......................
Nothing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget the ghosts to, the ones that just downloads the rom/theme/app/mod and won't even spend a second to click thanks. These devs do this for free and spend tons of time doing it(been there done that). Its not hard really, its the little things that count.
There's also something to be said for not being a condescending, intolerant prick.
But hey, this is the internet, where you can be an absolute asshole and no one can do anything about it, so why not?
I'll gladly take the "lazy noobs" over the self-righteous self-proclaimed geniuses we seem to breed here. At least the people asking the "stupid" questions aren't intentionally doing so to make people feel like crap.
Stay classy, XDA.
Senor Forum said:
There's also something to be said for not being a condescending, intolerant prick.
But hey, this is the internet, where you can be an absolute asshole and no one can do anything about it, so why not?
I'll gladly take the "lazy noobs" over the self-righteous self-proclaimed geniuses we seem to breed here. At least the people asking the "stupid" questions aren't intentionally doing so to make people feel like crap.
Stay classy, XDA.
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Click to collapse
Don't be so sure about that. I have recently patented a DEVICE and APPARATUS for PUNCHING PEOPLE over the INTERNET
---------- Post added at 01:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 AM ----------
reNeglect said:
Don't forget the ghosts to, the ones that just downloads the rom/theme/app/mod and won't even spend a second to click thanks. These devs do this for free and spend tons of time doing it(been there done that). Its not hard really, its the little things that count.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, similarly to open-source software, it's a largely thankless job done for fun, and NOT the expectation of $$$, or accolades...
Exactly this.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda premium
ikjadoon said:
Some of this could be relieved if people actually updated their first post with relevant information.
I did it for my 90+ page Jelly Bean thread and had NONE of this.
Actually, wait, it happened once. I told him the answer and then said "check the first post, mate." Never happened again.
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Click to collapse
^ THIS
I really think they should update the first post on a thread, so that a particular question that keep repeatedly asked doesn't need to be asked again. Personally, if I had a question, I check the thread's first page to see if they had some sort of FAQs up there for questions that are FREQUENTLY asked.
If not, I resort to searching. But sometimes, your question is a bit general and you can't find any useful information via search. Even via Google. Sometimes, even if you try to be specific with search, you can't nail down the solution of the problem. Sometimes you just find someone asking the same question and was left unanswered because "this noob didn't do a search. So no we won't answer his question"
But then again, if a question is repeatedly asked, the search should yield a good answer. But there's just those odd moments where search isn't helpful at all and you try asking.
I think it would be best if a) there's a FAQs (I've actually seen a few threads on other sections of XDA with a separate thread for asking questions), or b) just answer the damn question, and remind them to use search or something... Instead of resorting to name calling and flaming.
Sometimes, I just avoid posting on XDA because I feel some people feel they're the elite and that instead of teaching the new people how to learn they just scoff them off telling them to learn on their own. I started XDA years back, and while I mostly did my learning on my own, I had a couple of people help me pointing me to things and all that. But now days, XDA is just full of rowdy people trying to make themselves special.
EDIT: And all of those efforts in flaming could have just been put to good use. So what did you end up accomplishing in name calling and flaming? Nothing.
Which is as much as you could accomplish if you ignored the person and did nothing. So if you ain't helping just ugnore becuase it doesn't accomplish anything to call out someone, call them names, and flame them.
I'll admit to being both a noob and an "a-hole". The first topic I created on XDA was in the the developement forum (check my profile to verify)! Oh boy, did I get whipped for that. I took it like a man, didn't argue and I learned real fast. Even since then, I learned to read, search, do whatever it takes to solve my own issues.
Now the A-hole part of me showed in the Atrix forum. Some guy posted a question which has been posted to the bone a million times and got into an argument with him, telling to search, read, ect. Was it justified? Maybe. Was my argument with him going to stop other noobs from posting repeated questions? No. I don't know on that day, I decided I had enough and beefed with him. Maybe because he didn't put in enough effort look around posting a question when it's been asked a million times. I usually just ignore stuff like that but it really got to me when I saw that question.
We all like to think that our question(s) has never been asked before so we come here and post but that's usually never the case is it? That's just human nature. What's more of a satisifying feeling? Finding your own solution via searching, reading, ect. or asking a question and getting a direct, personal answer? Wait don't answer that.
I compare the forums to a classroom that doesn't has a beginning or an ending semester. Students constantly coming and going while the teacher has to start his lesson over and over and over. Students raising their hands and asking questions about chapter 1 while the students who been there for a while are annoyed because they're on chapter 8.and have to wait for the teacher to stop and answer a previously asked question.
That's the end of my rant. I got my scars from my mistakes. Learn from me. They're not worth showing off.
At the end of the day, who really cares? Someone asked a question, maybe it was answered already, who freakin cares? No one got hurt.
The person asking meant to seek information. The person replying set out to inflame and incite. Who is the real problem?
Do you ever consider the experience a new user has on these forums?
Subjected to elitist snobs and morons who can't wait to bash someone. If they are new, they don't understand. But they will realize just what kind of arrogant, socially inept people some members can be. And quickly.
Nothing says "welcome" like a good, old fashioned condescending person.
If you don't answer people like that in real life, maybe you shouldn't on the internet either.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
I have stopped posting as well from some time, as I get most my answers by just reading OP and other posts. I disagree with OP here to some extent. The main problem is not the noobs but the self proclaimed experts. It take same amount of time and energy to answer someone's question and bashing them. I do agree that if you don't know the answer just ignore them, but saying read read instead of answering them is just starting a new war. When I was in Captivate forums, I knew few people who answered same questions everyday and eventually made a general thread to help new people. Either block noobs from this forum or stop starting these kind of thread to get attention.
I don't think anyone just post a question without researching, as most of the members now know how badly they get bashed for it. So if someone is asking a sincere question, I think they should be answered or ignored. These forums are to help each other learn new things, no one came here as expert (except few).
Whatever happened to that saying: No question is a stupid question...