Develop Bugs

[Q] HTC Desire HD or Desire Z?

So guys I was just wondering... which one do you prefer between the two? Which one you'll get when it's released? For me I am leaning towards the HTC Desire HD because of the bigger screen.
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Desire HD specs
Android 2.2
4.3″ capacitive touchscreen
8 MP camera with 720p HD video capture
WiFi
HSDPA
GPS
Accelerometer
4 GB internal memory expandable via microSD card slot

I had an HD2 and you can't operate it in one hand, it's just too big. Having said that, it does look awesome
I'm happy with my Desire, though. Something better will always come along and I'm not due an upgrade for about 18 months anyway!!

Yeah I think that would be an issue with me too... the bigger the screen the harder to operate it in one hand... but I want a bigger screen for browsing the web really, reading, cheking email and stuff. I just wished they put a kickstand on that Desire HD cause I also love watching youtube on my phone. I'm also not into keyboard phones that's why I still want the HD than the Z.

i need a keayboard. screen size doesnt matter too much.

I would really really want to buy the HD, since stepping down from my Blackstone screen real estate to the Desire was a bit of a shock and I have gorilla-size hands.
Having seen it has TFT instead of S-LCD, I'm not getting one and waiting for other devices, maybe with S-AMOLED

The HD has my vote, but I wont turn away from the stock Desire. Better screen, and when they drop a system dump we'll have the new sense too
Sent from my HTC Desire

HD has bigger screen but same pixels 480x800 as the desire. (tell me if I am wrong). So what does it makes it HD? bigger screen, same pixels means less pixels per inch, means lower quality!
I don't like companies who copy others ideas but I believe that Sony and Samsung (the screen makers of SLCD and AMOLED) should follow Apple and increase pixels per inch in their displays.
Desire (the first one) is perfect in any way and these new members of the desire family look great but have almost the same specifications with the Desire that was released half a year ago. I was waiting for a 2 core processor and a much better screen. I am a bit dissapointed with the hardware of these brilliant new phones... And I would be much more dissapointed if I see better hardware in the Windows Mobile phones...

or maybe they are saving the hardware to be able to sell android 3 that is on his way....

fotisp88 said:
I was waiting for a 2 core processor and a much better screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do wonder what the preoccupation is with dual cores on a mobile phone! As far as I'm concerned, the Desire is fast enough as it is.
Personally, I'd rather see more time and investment on improving battery technologies.
Regards,
Dave

foxmeister said:
Personally, I'd rather see more time and investment on improving battery technologies.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This right here...

foxmeister said:
I do wonder what the preoccupation is with dual cores on a mobile phone! As far as I'm concerned, the Desire is fast enough as it is.
Personally, I'd rather see more time and investment on improving battery technologies.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Although it would be nice to see some improvement in 3D performance but still, not at the cost of battery life.

more cores means faster performance, greater energy efficiency, and more responsive multitasking. And yes Desire is fast as is, but I believe the 1ghz clock is not so battery friendly. Also any new technology is always welcome isn't it?

fotisp88 said:
more cores means faster performance, greater energy efficiency, and more responsive multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It might mean one of those, but it seldom means all three at the same time!
2 x cores at 500MHz might well be more energy efficient than a single 1GHz core, but it is not always going to be the case as it is dependent on the complexity of the core itself. It might also give you more responsive multitasking, but often this is going to be at the expense of the performance of a single task.
Given the limited screen real-estate on a phone, there is generally little need to run more than a handful of tasks simultaneously, as usually only one task will be able to interact with the user (i.e. have focus), and so what you really need is better and faster task switching which requires more memory, not more cores.
Looking beyond the phone to tablets, I can see that changing, but this is a conversation about phones!
My "ideal" phone would be something with the form factor of the Desire, but the processor, memory, and internal storage from the Desire HD, an S-AMOLED screen, and a 2 day battery life with reasonably heavy usage.
HTC are almost there - it's just the batteries that let them down IMHO!
Regards,
Dave

imagine a dual core processor, 500MHz each meaning it's more energy efficient, BUT, with the ability to overclock each processor up to 1GHz... *drools*....

cgrec92 said:
imagine a dual core processor, 500MHz each meaning it's more energy efficient, BUT, with the ability to overclock each processor up to 1GHz... *drools*....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dual-core is not inherently more energy efficient than a single core, and most gains are because it can deliver similar performance at a lower clock speed compared to a single core at a higher clock.
So by overclocking 1GHz you've just got rid of any additional energy efficiency that it might have had!
Regards,
Dave

I place the need for a keyboard as a very high requirement , so its the Desire Z for me

Have to agree with Dave on the battery issue, on another note I played around with both devices last night at the HTC london meet and must admit apart from a bit of optomisation of the hardware its about the same.. HD larger screen, Z slide out keypad.... and thats it, in addition to the improved sense interface etc, I am happy with my desire at present but must admit I was impressed with the shut down and boot up speeds however

I'd rather have my old G1 than the Desire Z if I wanted a hard keyboard.
Sent from my HTC Desire

So guys...First things first,I'll (try to) go with the HD(might be just too expensive,you know?).
Secondly,the hardware is much better than our current Desire's.The CPU is made with the 45nm process,which means better power efficiency and better performance per CPU clock.Not to mention the extra ram and the fact that the GPU is about 4 times more powerful(maybe even more) than our current Desire's.The screen might not be AMOLED,but SLCD(not simple TFT as mentioned somewhere around here) and 800x480 is more than enough for such a screen.I mean,what do you want?If you want HD buy some HDTV.End of story!
Don't get me wrong,I absolutely love my Desire and I won't swap it at any case,I will keep it as my secondary phone if I get the HD.

I don't know about the HD naming thing... but if I have to guess I think it's not about an HD screen but an HD camera or something cause the new Desire HD has an 8 megapixel cam with 720p recording... rather than the 5 megapixel of the old Desire. I don't know about the 45 nanometer processor if that is also true, cause I haven't read any detailed specification for the Desire HD, I've only read that it has the Qualcomm 8250 SnapDragon CPU which is the same as the old Desire.
I know that the Desire Z's CPU is new, cause it has the Qualcomm MSM 7230 800Mhz, also known as the Scorpion CPU, and they said that this is supposed to be faster than the 1Ghz snapdragon cause the Qualcomm MSM has the new Adreno 205 integrated GPU in it and supposed to be better in 3D games. Also because of lower clock speed the more energy efficient it's supposed to be. That's why it is also used in the new Google G2 android device.
Actually I started this thread because I want to get another android device. I gave my old Desire to my wife cause she loved it very much after she have tried using it for a day... and I can't say no to the missis... if you know what I mean hehehehe.

is archos 80 g9 a piece of junk?

I purchased one from my local uk currys yesterday and have used it quite a bit since and I I have to say since i am very dissapointed,
The Bad
web browsing is slow and laggy as the pages do not load totally e.g the page loads as your scrolling down even after waiting,
flash video playback in browser often crashes the tab causing it to restart itself, camera is bad in low light conditions,
you cant exit apps properly as even if you select to exit in the apps menu they stay in the multitask panel running in background (unless you go in and stop them with the honeycomb built in task killer),
gameplay is not toally smooth on the game I have tested (nova 2) it plays relatively smooth however seems to pause slightly at times like a frame skip[edit since last archos update it force closes even after reinstall], i also tried n64oid which was slow loading and the on screen controller froze,
angry birds loads but the screen image is not smooth as the pixels have been stretched however plays well (i couldnt care less about angry birds anyway but it just shows that the screen resizing can cause graphics issues.
I have issues with moon reader ebook reader as it does not want to only change page when i swype as soon as it gets to the next chaper page it will only skip chapters
The Good
media playback with files loaded on the device is good they play back smoothly through the hdmi and I had no trouble with the files I put on it.
youtube app playback is looks good.
screen quality is nice very vibrant colours etc
battery life is good.
the stand is useful
honeycomb is much more user intuitive than any before it
wifi signal isnt too bad in the room next to the rooter I get over half.
the issue I have is that my herotab c8 is faster for browsing web pages doesnt seem to lag, very rarely restarts itself and can view flash in browser without crashing my tablet, also I can root it and install chainfire which means gameplay is brilliant when playing nova 2 (better than archos tablet however colours etc are a little washed out compared to archos ) I can remove my memory card from its external slot and change it for a different one and it instantly reads the new one unlike the archos where I cannot even see the card in folders.
if im missing something that has hampered my experience please advise as I am giving this to the end of the week and will more than likely return it if it stays like this.
Soulclaimed

Yeah I did the same, the amount of FC was upsetting. The sound card (from what i've read) is pressed in to the back of the screen and any slight pressure creates the ripple on the screen. Not bad for the money, but not great

i dont believe i have the screen defect but all the other problems are beginning to be frustrating, because of the specs i dont know whether to return it as if they implement the specs and features properly in future firmware updates this should be a great tablet, although someone said on another post that they dont have the lag or freezes or automatic rebooting or game issues that i have listed above so im sort of wondering if my device is defective.
edit i also find that it wont output the image properly to a 32 inch 720p tv as as the tv tries to play as 1080p but cant and the tablet nor the tv have options to change this

Had a bit of screen lag, not no more than my Desire HD, so cant really complain too much about it.
I thinking about sending it back but its shipped from France, and that gonna be expensive.
Yeah the screen defect is what swayed it for me, if that goes out of warranty im stuffed!

The only thing I can complain about is the screen defect, that in my opinion is bareable... for the web browsing experience, all you have to do is install Opera Mobile from the market and that problem is solved... about the "lag", change launcher and go for ADW EX, with that it's fast as a rocket... apps stay "open" after you close them because that's how Honeycomb works, it keeps stuff in the background so that they can open up faster next time. Overall It's actually a pretty good tablet, it's not perfect and yes it's very "delicate" software wise, but once you get used to how you treat it, all is fine... remember It's an incredibly cheap tablet with all the functionalities of the most expensive...
---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------
related to the SD card, I have had no issues with reading/changing card

I love my archos g9 Turbo.

jutley said:
I love my archos g9 Turbo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same for me!

My brother has the archos 80 g9 16GB turbo version and it runs perfectly no lag no force closes or anything and games run great aswell and videos run smooth and the screen is brilliant only a little problem from pressure on the back of the screen but it is a tiny area and 99% of the time not visible so not a problem.
but my dad bought the 80 g9 250GB turbo version which the only problem is the hard drive is slow and it crashes a bit too often and its now crashed and wont boot past the unlock screen and the screen wont respond so ive got to see if i can fix that now but the flash version of the tablet i think is brilliant especially for the price

I love my 80 g9!
Sent from my VM670 using XDA App

Alas mine is the 1ghz version only and even after update problems persist there is even a Lag from the keyboard as I type this I have

Hi all
Bretticus said:
but my dad bought the 80 g9 250GB turbo version which the only problem is the hard drive is slow and it crashes a bit too often and its now crashed and wont boot past the unlock screen and the screen wont respond so ive got to see if i can fix that now but the flash version of the tablet i think is brilliant especially for the price
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi guys,
I'm about to buy the archos g9 250GB but I searched here at XDA to know more about this tablet and to see if the HDD version is good and fast enough... and I can see here that the fastest and most stable version of this tablet is the archos g9 10GB Turbo... but this one is expensive in Israel (About 425$) than the 8GB version (About 337$)! But the 8GB version has the ARM Cortex A9 1.0GHz Dual Core while the 16GB turbo have 1.2GHz Turbo version: OMAP™ 4 smart multi-core ARM CORTEX A9...
So I want to know which one is the best for my Dad, He just need a simple tablet to surf the web sometimes, watch Videos on the web (Flash players) etc... so the 250GB HDD could be a "nice to have" feature, but if it's to slow, Then I prefer the 8GB version...
and as I mentioned the "Turbo" is expensive here... so which one it's gonna be? the 8GB or the 250GB?
Thanks! I think that i'm gonna buy that tablet tomorrow, so I'll be happy to get some answers from you guys, 10x again

GadgetAvi said:
Hi guys,
I'm about to buy the archos g9 250GB but I searched here at XDA to know more about this tablet and to see if the HDD version is good and fast enough... and I can see here that the fastest and most stable version of this tablet is the archos g9 10GB Turbo... but this one is expensive in Israel (About 425$) than the 8GB version (About 337$)! But the 8GB version has the ARM Cortex A9 1.0GHz Dual Core while the 16GB turbo have 1.2GHz Turbo version: OMAP™ 4 smart multi-core ARM CORTEX A9...
So I want to know which one is the best for my Dad, He just need a simple tablet to surf the web sometimes, watch Videos on the web (Flash players) etc... so the 250GB HDD could be a "nice to have" feature, but if it's to slow, Then I prefer the 8GB version...
and as I mentioned the "Turbo" is expensive here... so which one it's gonna be? the 8GB or the 250GB?
Thanks! I think that i'm gonna buy that tablet tomorrow, so I'll be happy to get some answers from you guys, 10x again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Avi,
I bought this tablet (Turbo 16G version) for my wife a week ago.
Actually AFAIK the Turbo version sold here (in Israel) is just an overclocked version of the non-turbo, since the real turbo version should be 1.5Ghz and have a different processor model.
Anyhow, the web browsing is fine, but beware that Flash works really bad on it.
I don't know if it works well on other tablets or not, but on this one it will freeze constantly during play.
Also I tried Mako VOD/Hot VOD apps and though they run, they won't play any video (except an occasional commercial now & then), but I don't know if it's because of this specific tablet, or because of the Flash issue.
Youtube apps works well, and so does streaming files from other computers.

Hey there mike,
I see that you are from Israel to, where did you buy it? BUG? or some other place?
so you don't recommend for the 16G version huh?
and as I can see here the 250GB version is not stable and very slow... so what’s left is that 8GB version which is the chipset one anyway here in israel...
but I see that there is a great deal at BUG stores on the 250GB, the price is almost same as the 8GB version, SO i Really thinking if I should buy the 250G or the 8G... :\
And about flash players - I test flash players and flash based Websites on my Samsung galaxy S2 and my friend's Motorola XOOM
and all flash players worked great, specially the JWplayer and the JustinTV players...
about Mako and other Israeli VOD sites, most of them are not in real flash, the players are flash Based UI, but the actual Video is WMV and not even FLV or MP4... so they won't work on android devices, but there are Dedicated applications for Mako on the Android market... try it...
10x anyway dude, I think I'm goanna jump to bug and play with this device and then see if it's Goanna be the 8G or the 250G...
Thanks...

Ok guys, never mind, I bought the Asus transformer eventually... I checked that Archos, and it's a Cute tablet, but the quality is mid range, and yes, sadly the one that I wanted purchase was with that known screen defect!

soulclaimed said:
Alas mine is the 1ghz version only and even after update problems persist there is even a Lag from the keyboard as I type this I have
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what keyboard are you using? standard Android or market app?
I have had same lag randomly on older 80g9 8gb & new 80g9 16gb 1.5ghz turbo.
what is causing this? I've been using Perfect Keyboard app and love it but wonder if its the issue

Only stock i installed others but only stock appears maybe i missed some settings....

soulclaimed said:
Only stock i installed others but only stock appears maybe i missed some settings....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That kinda sucks that its not the keyboard app. getting other keyboards active is more of a pain on these, I can't remember exact procedure but keep messing with settings and you'll get it.
try Perfect Keyboard app from market, it takes a while to get used to & adjust but for a free app its very nice, I had mine tuned and comfortable to work within a week and I can't stand any other now, I'm typing mostly with thumbs on split landscape w #pad in middle and cool arrow keys at bottom that are like a mouse for cursor positioning

over's tab said:
That kinda sucks that its not the keyboard app. getting other keyboards active is more of a pain on these, I can't remember exact procedure but keep messing with settings and you'll get it.
try Perfect Keyboard app from market, it takes a while to get used to & adjust but for a free app its very nice, I had mine tuned and comfortable to work within a week and I can't stand any other now, I'm typing mostly with thumbs on split landscape w #pad in middle and cool arrow keys at bottom that are like a mouse for cursor positioning
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since its not a big brand name here I cannot sell my archos g9. I'm getting the transformer prime and dock when they show up in stores here. I want to try it before I buy.
Sent from my ARCHOS 80G9 using Tapatalk

like my archos 80 g9 verry much low price fine machine

I wouldn't say it's a piece of junk..but the first one crapped out on me, the cheap usb charger connectors that are only loosely soldered onto the mother board probably broke, got an RMA replacement, had it for a month or so, and the stupid damn 2 foot cord is so short, the tablet gets knocked off of things so easily that it broke the usb connector right out after a 3 foot drop. Pissed me off :/

Discussing the performance of the Tegra 3 SoC

Ipad 3's gpu, about twice the performance of the One X, but in OFFSCREEN 720p mode:
Check it out, http://glbenchmark.com/result.jsp?b...ersion=all&certified_only=1&brand=all&gpu=all
Would that mean there are no worries for game's performance? Since we have much lower resolution?
What i was thinking is that game makers who optimize their games for the new ipad, wouldn't make them run at native resolution, but something around 720p, and that would mean our One X is simply incapable of running ipad's optimized games, with less than half the performance of the ipad.
What do you think?

eeeeeee said:
Check it out, http://glbenchmark.com/result.jsp
Would that mean there are no worries for game's performance? Since we have much lower resolution?
What i was thinking is that game makers who optimize their games for the new ipad, wouldn't make them run at native resolution, but something around 720p, and that would mean our One X is simply incapable of running ipad's optimized games, with less than half the performance of the ipad.
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so why not post this in the mega thread mate

hamdir said:
so why not post this in the mega thread mate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The mega thread is already pointless, as there is a forum for the One X,
and some subjects there are being neglected or not getting as much attention as they deserve.

http://glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?D=Apple+iPad+3&benchmark=glpro21
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720p offscreen
Egypt iPad3 140.9
Egypt iPad2 88.8
Egypt Prime 68
Egypt One X 64
Egypt One S 50
Pro iPad3 252.1
Pro iPad2 148.8
Pro Prime 81
Pro One X 82
Pro One S 76
Standard (native resolution)
Egypt iPad3 59.9 @2048x1536
Egypt iPad2 59.6 @1024×768
Egypt Prime 46.8 @1280x800
Egypt One X 51 @1280x720
Egypt One S 57 @540×960
Pro iPad3 60 @2048x1536
Pro iPad2 60 @1024×768
Pro Prime 54 @1280x800
Pro One X 54 @1280x720
Pro One S 60 @540×960
so we are talking between 2x and 3x the T3 and not 4x like Apple claimed
iPad3 CPU same as iPad2
http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/13/new-ipad-gets-benchmarked-1gb-ram-confirmed-no-boost-in-cpu-sp/

hamdir said:
http://glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?D=Apple+iPad+3&benchmark=glpro21
720p offscreen
Egypt Ipad3 140.9
Egypt Ipad2 88.8
Egypt Prime 68
Egypt One X 64
Egypt One S 50
Pro Ipad3 252.1
Pro Ipad2 148.8
Pro Prime 81
Pro One X 82
Pro One S 76
so we are talking between 2x and 3x the T3 and not 4x like Apple claimed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, indeed a little more than 2x on some benchmarks, although never 3x.
Now the big question here is whether the ipad will be upscaling games or rendering in native resolution.
Another question would be, is how does upscaling look (1:4) versus native low resolution (1:1).
These details will really affect my decision whether to get the One X, since I'm not planning to buy an outclassed gpu, as upscaled games will be able to run 2x on the ipad 3, and the One X already incapable of keeping up before being released.

eeeeeee said:
Thanks, indeed a little more than 2x on some benchmarks, although never 3x.
Now the big question here is whether the ipad will be upscaling games or rendering in native resolution.
Another question would be, is how does upscaling look (1:4) versus native low resolution (1:1).
These details will really affect my decision whether to get the One X, since I'm not planning to buy an outclassed gpu, as upscaled games will be able to run 2x on the ipad 3, and the One X already incapable of keeping up before being released.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
most game developers on twitter said the iPad3 GPU is not enough to feed the massive pixel count, so yes anticipate a lot of upscaling, Anandtech is making the same assumption
you keep forgetting that most Tegrazone T3 enhanced games used the quad cores for graphics....so the T3 standalone GPU will not keep up but the Quads will make up for it
its really not Apple to Apple comparison, the T3 is designed as a complete mobile graphics solution, Shadowgun THD and Glowball demos are real world examples

hamdir said:
most game developers on twitter said the GPU will not be enough to feed the massive pixel count, so yes anticipate a lot of upscaling, Anandtech is making the same assumption
you keep forgetting that most Tegrazone T3 enhanced games used the quad cores for graphics....so the T3 standalone GPU will not keep up but the Quads will make up for it
its really not Apple to Apple comparison, the T3 is designed as a complete mobile graphics solution, Shadowgun THD and Glowball demos are real world examples
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But to compete with the new ipad one must optimize the game for the T3 in the code level, which is never gonna happen outside of Nvidia's Tegra Zone.

eeeeeee said:
But to compete with the new ipad one must optimize the game for the T3 in the code level, which is never gonna happen outside of Nvidia's Tegra Zone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why? most games are optimised for their platforms, i didnt even think the DHD with Adreno205 can run shadowgun and it did when optimised for it
Unity developers documents reveal they optimize for every main GPU in the market
and regarding Tegrazone! its one of the best reasons to buy a T3, you have a powerhourse like Nvidia pushing devs to optimize for ti
same case with the iPad, devs have to optimize for the tile based GPU believe me keeping all those pixel inside a tile based buffer will be a major headache for iPad3 games
i really have doubts the iPhone5 will carry the 543MP4 if they want to keep parity with the iPad3 they will simply bump the speed iPhone4s CPU from 800 to 1000 and leave the old GPU
---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 PM ----------
if you make GPU benchmarks between Xbox 360 and Ps3 the Xbox will mope the floor withe PS3 GPU
but in real world there are many PS3 games the Xbox360 can not even make, while 90% of the time they match
Ps3 has the cores to assist its inferior GPU and Xbox360 has the GPU assisting its inferior CPU, very similar scenario here mate
in Desktop PC development they already moving to unify CPU/GPU cores
Finally
we already don't have a games match between android and apple, so whats your best choice for GPU if you skip T3? non my friend there is non, T3 is the best SOC for graphics right now on Android

hamdir said:
why? most games are optimised for their platforms, i didnt even think the DHD with Adreno205 can run shadowgun and it did when optimised for it
Unity developers documents reveal they optimize for every main GPU in the market
and regarding Tegrazone! its one of the best reasons to buy a T3, you have a powerhourse like Nvidia pushing devs to optimize for ti
same case with the iPad, devs have to optimize for the tile based GPU believe me keeping all those pixel inside a tile based buffer will be a major headache for iPad3 games
i really have doubts the iPhone5 will carry the 543MP4 if they want to keep parity with the iPad3 they will simply bump the speed iPhone4s CPU from 800 to 1000 and leave the old GPU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Offloading graphics to cpu cores is very unnatural, and requires hard modifications to your code.
Again I'm not a graphic expert, but it really depends on one's coding style, becuase if you code your game well enough, it will not be hard to port it over to tegra 3, however, if there's no sign of threads or any seperation of processes in your game, you will have to literally re-develope the game for the tegra 3.
Now we all know the fact that developers favor ios over android almost in any case, especially for gaming, we can expect really bad performance in my opinion in less than a year of holding the One X.
By the way the fact that tegra 3 is the best soc out there for android, kind of depresses me.
I wanted to see android smartphone manufactoreres as htc and samsung adopt the powervr solution, since it's sadly much much better than any other mobile gpu in the market.

yes but i am a graphics expert
We don't have a parity in iOS games vs Android, thanks to Tegrazone we have a lot more games
in fact Tegra3 already runs most games a lot better than on iPad2 with much higher resolution
i don't get your point
the competition is T3 vs iPad2 and not iPad3 since the extra cores will simply serve to feed more pixels (even if slightly upscaled the massive pixel count is beyond 4x) the T3 has 1.5 to 2x competition at most
if you have time read the unity development document to get a better idea
you still didn't answer me what is your alternative? buying an iOS device?

hamdir said:
yes but i am a graphics expert
We don't have a parity in iOS games vs Android
in fact Tegra3 already runs most games a lot better than on iPad2 with much higher resolution
i don't get your point
the competition is T3 vs iPad2 and not iPad3 since the extra cores will simply serve to feed more pixels, the T3 has 1.5 to 2x competition at most
if you have time read the unity development document to understand
you still didn't answer me what is your alternative buying an iOS device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to make sure we understand each other, I'm never even thinking of buying an ios device, the os sucks, but hell it's devices have very good hardware, and have the developers optimize things for them first.
You are right that more cpu power CAN be better and therefore the tegra 3 might perform better, however, I'm really honest when I ask whether we will have the developers support for every app and game that requires performance? or our soc gets neglected,
filled with choppy and stuttering games using only two cores half the power and pushing everything to the gpu?
Just look at adobe photoshop touch, tegra 3 performs like 5 fps zooming and panning while ipad 2 is 60fps.

PowerVR tiling has its performance downhills too
an upcoming android phone with intel SOC + PowerVR SGX544 is coming so maybe you should consider that one
as for me im rushing to Nvidia and never coming back its thanks to them that we are seeing a lot more games on android

hamdir said:
PowerVR tiling has its performance downhills too
an upcoming android phone with intel SOC + PowerVR SGX544 is coming so maybe you should consider that one
as for me im rushing to Nvidia and never coming back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think I will go for x86, but have a look at my edited previous post about adobe photoshop as an app that isn't optimized for tegra 3, and nobody really cares..

regarding Photoshop touch, i hope its a development problem and not the limited memory bandwith on T3 we should ask nivida about this

hamdir said:
regarding Photoshop touch, i hope its a development problem and not the limited memory bandwith on T3 we should ask nivida about this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Either one proves my point, that tegra 3 is useless without optimizations, or that tegra 3 is simply not good enough. Shame on Nvidia, what can I say.

eeeeeee said:
Either one proves my point, that tegra 3 is useless without optimizations, or that tegra 3 is simply not good enough. Shame on Nvidia, what can I say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mate optimising for certain hardware is not wrong! in fact all hardware requires this, how else would you push things forward?? otherwise lets stick PowerVR and ARM in every device and call it quits so devs don't have to "optimize"

hamdir said:
mate optimising for certain hardware is not wrong! in fact all hardware requires this, how else would you push things forward?? otherwise lets stick PowerVR and ARM in every device and call it quits so devs don't have to "optimize"
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Click to collapse
I accidently pressed the thanks button =] although if I think it over you do deserve one after your useful posts.
Every hardware requires optimizations, but history has proven that when you have a device that your software has to be over optimized for you to gain good performance, the developer might neglect it and just prefer worse performance - we are being witnessed to exactly that case when comparing adobe photoshop touch over the platforms, and I can deliver many other examples.

ok regarding up-scaling
for sure iPad3 devs will use ups-calling but not by 4x, anything higher than 2x up-scaling will show its ugly face
in fact the only worry i have about T3 in general is not the GPU but the limited memory bandwidth but most tablets aver 720p and the T3 seems to keep up well, its also handles 1080p H264 very well
heavy games like infinity blade might suffer from the bandwidth though
but consider this, i always wanted to move to Tegra, why? because of a much better game support, you can't deny it's Tegrazone that started pushing high end 3d games to android
regarding optimisations, everyone said the same about the PS3 but with Sony backing it proved them wrong, i find it really wrong that we expect to pamper developers just because they are now comfortable with PowerVR thanks to iOS

hamdir said:
ok regarding up-scaling
for sure iPad3 devs will use ups-calling but not by 4x, anything higher than 2x up-scaling will show its ugly face
in fact the only worry i have about T3 in general is no the GPU but the limited memory bandwidth but most tablets aver 720p and the T3 seems to keep up well
heavy games like infinity blade might suffer from the bandwidth though
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Click to collapse
Good subject, do you have any details about games in the transformer prime, or even apps that suffer from it already?
Regarding the PS3 analogy, I honestly think it's irrelevent simply because PS3 is a permanent targeted platform, which I hope tegra 3 remains for a long period of time.

was Nvidia wrong by not shooting for the moon with its GPU and memory bandwith? yes but that's why they were the first to achieve a quad mobile SOC while Apple A6, ARMA15 and quad s4 are far away
oh and a very important point
according to unity Nvidia Tegra has the best development tools and performance analyzers, qualcomm comes second while the iPad2 tools are lacking
all we know about the Prime is that all THD games running a lot better vs iPad2
there is a reason why so many say "**** benchmarks"

Warning: Archos 97 Titanium HD - Don't buy it, it's CRAP

Just to let you guys know, and warn you not to get the Archos 97 Titanium HD, it's that bad, i don't know what to do with it. i will try to sell it as a second hand and loose money on it. i bought it 5 days ago....
the problems with this device:
1. WIFI is very very slow and reception almost doesn't exists ! you will not be able to get a signal farther than 3m from the router.
2. HD ? Retina ? are you kidding me the device is on Normal mode (half of retina res.) and works sort of OK but still not as fast as expected from a dual core 1.6GHZ CPU with quad core GPU !- SHAME on you Archos.
Putting the device in HD mode, Forget about it, your device will flicker like hell and the lags becomes epic !
IMHO, the worst is the Archos knows about this and doesn't issue a recall or a solution to their customers. this is definitely the last time i will buy Archos for me they are a bunch of thieves because they know about their defective product and they keep selling it.
I feel like it's my obligation to post this message in all the relevant forums, to warn other suckers from falling in Archos trap.
Let me know what you think about this device, i'm going to the store tomorrow and will try to give it back.
"IPAD killer" really ?

OK, HD mode is a bust. Normal mode is OK if not good enough. The screen resolution is still better than a lot of devices. I agree it should work in HD mode but doesn't. For me it surfs the net better than a tegra 3 high end tablet like the Asus transformers.
I suggest you try to change the launcher to nova. For me it speed the device up a lot. (Dont use apex) Also did you update to the latest firmware? The end of January build.
The spec of the device is similar to the original Samsung galaxy note. Its high enough spec to expect it to perform OK but nothing special, I doubt it will ever be able to pump out HD resolution.
Either easy I hope you sort it out

How can any manufacturer release a device with a resolution that they just cannot support?!!?
Archos have great ideas but really poor implementation.
Sent from my 101XS using XDA app

They are making an retina less version called 97b
sent from my UNLOCKED gt-s5360 using the XDA app

Viiwok Deva HMD - Mobile Gaming

Hi,
My name is Dragos and I'm the founder and senior designer of Viiwok, a startup which builds VR adapters and controllers.
More specifically we're currently in the final testing rounds of the first mobile HMD in the world. It's basically a hybrid tablet adapter with integrated, discrete headtracking sensors (as in not using the tablet's gyro/accelerometer sensors).
What it does is letting you slide in any 7" tablet and wirelessly displaying stereographic 3D video feed from the computer. It's basically a mobile Oculus Rift and a future proof product as well, since we're not constrained of resolution and hardware issues - because you can always use the latest and most powerful tablet at your disposal. The headtracking has basically zero latency and the FOV is about 120 degrees, using specially designed aspheric lenses with a 2" diameter for each eye. Besides native 3D support in certain titles (Crytek titles made with Cryengine, DOOM 3 BFG, etc.), we can also use TriDef for realtime side-by-side 3D rendering of currently unsupported games.
While gaming is our main scope, the HMD could be also used for virtual tourism and landscaping, in medicine (disabled or severely handicapped persons) or CAD design. Our next project to be launched is an omnidirectional treadmill which detects your body movements in real time (walking, jumping, crouching), much like a Kinnect, but without the back-facing and latency constraints.
Right now we're using Gamepad THD and Kainy for the video feed, but also Limelight for native Shield streaming ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...505510&page=15 ) while also developing our own video streaming solution in house.
REMOVED
Here are a couple of pictures with the 3D printed prototype. Of course, the final design will be much more streamlined and ergonomic.
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What is this?
Inviato dal mio GT-N7100 utilizzando Tapatalk

marco9797 said:
What is this?
Inviato dal mio GT-N7100 utilizzando Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a head mounted, 3D display. You can stream games to it from the PC and see them in 3D. For virtual reality applications and games.

Attreyu said:
It's a head mounted, 3D display. You can stream games to it from the PC and see them in 3D. For virtual reality applications and games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do i need a great powered PC for this? Can i find It on Amazon?
Inviato dal mio GT-N7100 utilizzando Tapatalk

marco9797 said:
Do i need a great powered PC for this? Can i find It on Amazon?
Inviato dal mio GT-N7100 utilizzando Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need a good wifi connection (802.11n) and a medium-to-high computer. An Nvidia Kepler GPU is fine.
Basically, if you can play your games now, you don't need a new computer for the Deva HMD.
The HMD only receives the video-feed from the computer. You need a 7" tablet with 802.11n Wifi and a nice GPU (Tegra 3, Qualcomm 600/800, etc.).

No offense friend but I wouldnt want to put that scary thing on my head.

haha :laugh: fair enough. Would you put an Oculus Rift to your head ?

Attreyu said:
You need a good wifi connection (802.11n) and a medium-to-high computer. An Nvidia Kepler GPU is fine.
Basically, if you can play your games now, you don't need a new computer for the Deva HMD.
The HMD only receives the video-feed from the computer. You need a 7" tablet with 802.11n Wifi and a nice GPU (Tegra 3, Qualcomm 600/800, etc.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i haven't enough money for an nvidia kepler in my notebook there is a gt 520m ;so can i try also with a tablet or smartphone?
i have a note 2 but it has mali 400 mp and i don't know if is enough great powered for this...
i and my family are going to buy an ipad air for christmas... Can i try with that?Is there any app? For the power i think that the ipad has the best gpu for the mobile,i believe also now is faster than xbox 360 and play 3.

Attreyu said:
haha :laugh: fair enough. Would you put an Oculus Rift to your head ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hell no ))) I wouldnt want to put anything on my head even Google Glass which is overrated for that price tag I think. I mean if it would look like regular Sun Glasses without some thingy that looks like Universal Soldier ))) Maybe I would put it on. And as for is it Enough to have Decent Tablet? Well depends if you want to play Chilidish Android games, which have bad graphics compared to PS3 or XBOX or PC, due to the Lack of DX and OpenGL then you are all set ) but I think its better to wait till TEGRA5 Devices DX11 support full OpenGL and 6 times faster than PS3 GPU... But you have to wait till Summer 2014 and for some games that will be made for that Architecture ( So I wouldnt rush to any new Tablet right now, unless of course your budget is big enough to afford buying a newest tablet every 6 month )

I can certainly say this won't be "the first" HMD using a mobile device. I know VRase has demoed units at various conventions/conferences and has some (supposed) VR industry connections. It had a successful kickstarter, but now we are waiting on the actual commercial units. They are promising they will look better than their 3D printed prototypes (which weren't that bad).
Still, more competition in this market is good. The problem is getting content to render in SbS format (Side by Side). Especially for pre-existing mobile games, less difficult for streamed desktop stuff (easy to tell GPU how to do special render cases through injection or driver manipulation).
Funding links removed

ryocoon said:
I can certainly say this won't be "the first" HMD using a mobile device. I know VRase has demoed units at various conventions/conferences and has some (supposed) VR industry connections. It had a successful kickstarter, but now we are waiting on the actual commercial units. They are promising they will look better than their 3D printed prototypes (which weren't that bad).
Still, more competition in this market is good. The problem is getting content to render in SbS format (Side by Side). Especially for pre-existing mobile games, less difficult for streamed desktop stuff (easy to tell GPU how to do special render cases through injection or driver manipulation).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't call Vrase a HMD, they're in a totally different ballpark. Vrase is just an adapter for smartphones. They aren't intended for VR and gaming, the smartphones have screens too small for the needed FOV, and they don't have integrated sensors, meaning you must use FreePie or other 3rd party 6DOF solution. You could use Vrase for basic SBS movie watching and AR (to some extent).
I know because they're spanish, like us. They're our colleagues but they aren't aiming in the same direction. They're more orrientated towards the casual user (movies, leisure), we're going for the gaming part.
Which leads me to your second preocupations, SBS mobile gaming. AFAIK there aren't many mobile shooters worth their salt at the moment, because the cappabilities are not here. Mobile GPUs are weak still, and untill this summer when Logan makes its appearance, we're going to stick to PC streaming.
Things will change, and will change fast in this VR/mobile gaming sector, and our belief is that our product is prepared to help you fill the gap.

Attreyu said:
I wouldn't call Vrase a HMD, they're in a totally different ballpark. Vrase is just an adapter for smartphones. They aren't intended for VR and gaming, the smartphones have screens too small for the needed FOV, and they don't have integrated sensors, meaning you must use FreePie or other 3rd party 6DOF solution. You could use Vrase for basic SBS movie watching and AR (to some extent).
I know because they're spanish, like us. They're our colleagues but they aren't aiming in the same direction. They're more orrientated towards the casual user (movies, leisure), we're going for the gaming part.
Which leads me to your second preocupations, SBS mobile gaming. AFAIK there aren't many mobile shooters worth their salt at the moment, because the cappabilities are not here. Mobile GPUs are weak still, and untill this summer when Logan makes its appearance, we're going to stick to PC streaming.
Things will change, and will change fast in this VR/mobile gaming sector, and our belief is that our product is prepared to help you fill the gap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay... wait. You say that this is an HMD, but VRase isn't due to the fact you need to use a phone screen. When clearly the difference for yours appears to be (at first glance) that you use a 7" tablet. I get that you have some integrated high-precision sensors, which obviously you wouldn't have if you were using VRase. Even using a simple solution like VRase you can do similar things with that. Yes, you can watch SBS formatted movies. You could also use software to request a GPU to render 3D in SBS and then connect using Splashtop, Kainy, LimeLight, etc. You would be correct in that it wouldn't have head-tracking though (at least not without extra 3rd party sensors or using some software to forward the laggy/innaccurate sensors from the phone/tablet gyros or accelerometers). Still, both end up being Head Mounted Displays, whether they have frills or not.
I truly do wish for you to prove me wrong. If information is available for public consumption, what differentiates your product from others existing in the market? Is it basically just similar to Occulus Rift, but with a wirelessly connected screen powered by a 7 inch tablet (and thereby... upgradeable)? Do you plan to push for public availability prior to commercial release of the Rift?
I get you and agree that mobile gaming horsepower really isn't quite there yet, and the content _REALLY_ isn't there. There are maybe six or so competent shooters out there that were originally programmed for mobile (IE: not counting Quake recodes). As an aside, I do wonder if there a way to runtime modify OpenGL ES calls to force SBS rendering in such apps. I know ChainFire managed to have a Root-required piece of software that allowed for platform specific (Tegra-only, Adreno-only, etc) optimized games to run pretty well on other chipsets. However, that is neither here nor there.

ryocoon said:
Okay... wait. You say that this is an HMD, but VRase isn't due to the fact you need to use a phone screen. When clearly the difference for yours appears to be (at first glance) that you use a 7" tablet. I get that you have some integrated high-precision sensors, which obviously you wouldn't have if you were using VRase. Even using a simple solution like VRase you can do similar things with that. Yes, you can watch SBS formatted movies. You could also use software to request a GPU to render 3D in SBS and then connect using Splashtop, Kainy, LimeLight, etc. You would be correct in that it wouldn't have head-tracking though (at least not without extra 3rd party sensors or using some software to forward the laggy/innaccurate sensors from the phone/tablet gyros or accelerometers). Still, both end up being Head Mounted Displays, whether they have frills or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I'm not trying to enter an argumente here with you man If you consider the two similar enough, fair play. They are, in more ways than one. The differences are subtle enough for the average user - size, scope, sensors, etc. As I said before, Vrase is for the casual user, our product would be more towards gaiming.
ryocoon said:
I truly do wish for you to prove me wrong. If information is available for public consumption, what differentiates your product from others existing in the market? Is it basically just similar to Occulus Rift, but with a wirelessly connected screen powered by a 7 inch tablet (and thereby... upgradeable)? Do you plan to push for public availability prior to commercial release of the Rift?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to take into consideration that the "market" for these products is very much in its infancy. You have the Oculus Rift and then you have the others (Vrase, Durovis Dive, InfiniteEye, Viiwok Deva) which are adapters by all means. Our goal is to achieve full mobility, without that tangled mess. So there are about 4-5 products, out of which only the Rift is out (even though there isn't a commercial version yet) and the Vrase just finished its Kickstarter a couple of months ago. So there isn't much of a competetion between ourselfes. We're all just trying to push VR out in the open.
Yes, we are going to start a crowdfunding campaign this weekend, with delivery starting in April.
ryocoon said:
I get you and agree that mobile gaming horsepower really isn't quite there yet, and the content _REALLY_ isn't there. There are maybe six or so competent shooters out there that were originally programmed for mobile (IE: not counting Quake recodes). As an aside, I do wonder if there a way to runtime modify OpenGL ES calls to force SBS rendering in such apps. I know ChainFire managed to have a Root-required piece of software that allowed for platform specific (Tegra-only, Adreno-only, etc) optimized games to run pretty well on other chipsets. However, that is neither here nor there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree. Mobile SBS gaming isn't here now, and one can only hope for things to change this year. Maybe products like ours will help push things in that direction. Android exclusive content is made of movies and a number of tech-demos here and there (most from Durovis, using Unity engine). So we're focusing to PC titles for the moment, going the streaming way.

If you want to discuss your project, that is fine. But links to funding projects are not allowed.
Thank you for your cooperation
Friendly Neighborhood Senior Moderator
And as this section is for the Nvidia shield it does not belong here.
Best fit will probably be Accessories
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