With the rumor of dismal sales for the RT, I'm wondering whether Microsoft considers RT to be a dead product. I heard that one manufacturer cancelled its RT product a while back because of it.
If it's true, I wonder how much the lockdown of the system affected sales. Did a lot of closed-source applications not get made for RT because desktop applications weren't allowed? Or would they never have been ported anyway?
I highly doubt that they have given up on something so early. I happen to own the Surface RT, and find it to be so much better than comparable Android and Ipad tablets. The only things lacking in the MS store, Photoshop Touch, a true Torrent client, and Cisco VPN support, and 3d gaming. I use RDP exclusively, and find it to be the best thin client available. If MS is smart, they will outfit Surface RT2 with the Wacom digitizer. Id pay an extra 100$ for it. Microsoft will be selling 10's of millions of windows 8 devices, which means more users on the modern UI - which in turn means more incentive for developers to make applications for Windows 8, and to compile for RT. I think a year from now, RT will basically have established itself as a viable tablet operating system - if the rumors are correct and the Windows phone 8 compatibility issues are ironed out, I see an ecosystem that is second to none.
THat being said - if apple starts making touchscreen convertible macbooks that boot ios applications, MS will be in big trouble, If Apple sticks to its guns, and doesn't make macbooks, and imacs touch friendly, they will continue to see their stock drop, and MS's market share in Tablets, will inch up.
The device that your thinking of is the ativ smart tab from Samsung. It never got sold in the US and is being discontinued in Germany. I live in the UK so have had a chance to handle a store model, its actually a horrid device. It feels cheap and seemed laggier than the RT, camera had a 3 second delay on taking images and it was more expensive than the surface RT while the only feature it had which the surface didn't was a higher resolution on its camera. The surface is just far better built and looks like its worth more money than the Samsung. Samsung cited lack of consumer interest in RT for the reason to not sell it.
Toshiba were also going to release a Windows RT tablet with a Texas instruments OMAP CPU however Toshiba pulled out and TI decided to discontinue the application profile OMAP processors and focus on microcontrollers instead. HP were going to make a device using a Qualcomm CPU (as used in samsungs device) but felt that there would be no demand for RT so pulled out, dell took up their position to release an RT device instead. Acer also developed a device but it has had its launch delayed until Q2 2013, assuming they have not discontinued it entirely.
Microsoft certainly have not scrapped RT already though. The new Microsoft blue update is meant to be coming to WP8, Windows 8 and Windows RT. If they didn't believe in RT then it wouldn't be getting blue.
I wonder how things would be different if Microsoft allowed desktop applications on RT directly rather than forced the Metro crap on everyone. Would we see desktop applications on RT from big developers, or would we just see the same situation, with porting to RT not seen as worthwhile?
Some people seem to think that the problem with the RT is that it has the desktop mode at all. I don't see it that way, though. What would be so wrong with an ARM port of Windows 8?
Oh Yes They Can!
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Microsoft certainly have not scrapped RT already though. The new Microsoft blue update is meant to be coming to WP8, Windows 8 and Windows RT. If they didn't believe in RT then it wouldn't be getting blue.
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Click to collapse
From an article by Preston Gralla in Computerworld "My guess is that eventually Microsoft will kill RT. Sales are dismal and don't appear to be getting better. There's no clear value in tablets that are as expensive as full-blown Windows tablets, but don't offer all of Windows features, such as the ability to run desktop applications. Having to develop, market, and support RT as well as Windows takes time and energy away from Microsoft's focus on Windows. Microsoft should follow IDC's recommendations and kill RT".
I have had several Surface RT Tablets - they remain gorgeous pieces of hardware with great battery life and screen BUT the Win RT experience was absolutely abominable, from buggy software to just plain lack of decent apps in the store, e.g., the email app.
And lest we forget, Microsoft killed Kin within three months of introing it so they can easily kill RT as well.
"There's no clear value in tablets that are as expensive as full-blown Windows tablets, but don't offer all of Windows features, such as the ability to run desktop applications. Having to develop, market, and support RT..."
It's true that we all know that Apple has cheap Ipad and that the application from the App Store are working in iMac... that comment from Preston Gralla is ridiculous...
RT
Hello, I have owned the SurfaceRT from week 3 and I find it a great device. I use to read email some games and surfing net. The last update that enables most flash sites works great. I still you my laptop for some apps but so far I have been happy with it. Much better than ipad or droid tablets I think as I have both. Just my thoughts.
MS can't abandon RT. ARM is the dominant architecture in the mobile space, and if MS wants to compete, its OS has to run on ARM. Even if Intel Atom can now reach power-efficiency parity, I really doubt we'll see $200 Intel tablets any time soon. MS needs to drop prices to compete, and only ARM provides that option.
That said, the 2012 RT devices--the few that were released--are already hitting the bargain bin. Surface RT is the last hold-out. The Teg3 SoC they're based on has been long obsolete.
RT as presently stands has no value proposition. On one side, it's usurped by Intel Atom (Clover Trail and Bay Trail by year-end); on the other, by cheaper and more functional Android tablets. Per rumors, the plan for this year is to go smaller and cheaper, with Blue. We'll see if they can compete with $200 7" and $300 10" Android tabs. Those are MS' main competitors, not iPads.
RT's fate is tied to the Metro ecosystem; if Metro does well, so will RT. Metro isn't doing well. RT is too weak to bootstrap Metro, so it falls to Win8 to get Metro viable. But Win8 isn't doing well, either. So the domino effect is: Windows doing well -> Metro ecosystem becomes viable -> RT doing well.
From recent rumors, we should see fixes and incremental improvements with Blue. Win Blue sales should likewise incrementally improve from last year's launch debacle, but I don't see breakout sales coming this year. Hence, per above factors, I don't see RT being a player this year, either.
Even if Microsoft didn't abandon their hope for RT, it seems that the rest of the world has, including most manufacturers, financial analysts, prospective buyers and etc.
I love my RT. I don't care that it runs on ARM and is not compatible with regular x86 / 64 apps. The problem is that they don't allow non-Metro apps to be developed for the RT. The sooner they get rid of this stupid restriction, the sooner RT can be revived. Hell, I'll even write my own apps, just not in Metro. It's annoyingly slow even on my desktop running on a quad core CPU and a SSD.
Microsoft can't say they didn't see this coming if the RT does fail. They dug their own grave. Of course, I'd hate to see it fail because I'm typing on one right now.
If we're supposed to do anything on the cloud, why doesn't the RT have 3g? I can't even connect to our VPN at work. This is a beautiful piece of hardware (minus the embarrassingly low quality keyboard cover), unfortunately it's crippled by Microsoft's poor decision of locking this thing down. I'm sure they have their reasons to justify this, but the fact is that average consumers don't care and they just want things to work.
I think metro is dead.it really sucks.and the metro only device(windows rt) is also dead.
When Will RT Price Reductions Begin?
It's obvious that despite a lot of good points regarding Surface RT tabs they're not selling well (if at all now). One of the reasons given is price so does anyone believe that MS will offer reduced prices in the near future in an attempt to open the market or will they just abandon?
I think the device hasn't even been out for 6 months yet and you guys are already shouting like MS's buried it. MS has already announced plans for the infrastructure(Blue), and they would have been fools to think that it would have taken off this rapidly.
Microsoft have been fools before, although often not quite so badly as people realize. It's arguable that Microsoft was foolish to put so much emphasis on Metro in general despite the half-assed (maybe 3/4-assed) way it's implemented in Win8 / RT
I really hate that I have to say it, but after anxiously waiting for my Surface RT, and dreaming of an Android-Free life. It only took a month to change my mind and abandon the RT.
And Microsoft did it to themselves...after spending a LOT of time in their help forums, it become clear to me that that a lot of people felt as I do. The real issue for me wasn't ARM or Store apps only..I fully expected that. I had no problem with a scaled down version of Office and I REALLY love the Metro interface.
However, it is the roadblocks, missing basic functions in apps, and other missteps that MS took. This is no where the complete list.
1. No support for POP3 email accounts..people don't always have choices
2. Can't send or reply emails for your Outlook.com aliases
3. Limited support for Outlook categories and other contact list info in the People app
4. No folder organization for IE favorites or import function. Why...when you have a full IE when started from Desktop mode. Why severely limit your functions just in Metro?
5. No music playlist or file sync/download between PC WMP and device. Not paying more for Xbox, don't and can't use streaming often. home group solution only works when home..this is a mobile device. I think they forgot.
6. Doesn't matter anyway, built in music players can't work with WMP playlists anyway.???
7. No direct USB connector or option for file transfers, back ups, etc. Almost every mobile device and platform has this in some form..I expect it.
8. Apps...I know it's early, but the Metro design guidelines are so easy, who know so many apps could be so ugly. I love Metro, these are so bad. Plus, apps from the big guns, like Ever note, aren't functioning well.
9. Still no tasks from Outlook. Not necessarily an RT issue, but after all this time, still can't sync my Outlook tasks and the web apps MS depends on for any sync (live mail, calendar, etc) are too simple and missing functionality. I certainly did not expect, nor should I, a full Outlook on the RT, but what we got in its place is way too basic to be usable.
10. The nightmare that is the Desktop. Everything is too small, very frustrating to work with. Two different interfaces.. It is confusing and makes no sense. Why didn't they just develop everything into Metro? 11. Finally to add insult to injury, the support website you are linked to from the HELP link in every settings menu is the wrong one. That's the full Windows 8 site, not the RT site as I and the forum moderator discovered last week.
Even in the name, MS calls it a PC, and it's got so much legacy design and function from the PC version, but it isn't a PC. its a mobile device that wasn't built with mobility in mind. Some of these are just annoying, some are problematic and most make you wonder if anyone knows what they're doing, as they make no logical sense
There is a lot to love. It wasn't all bad, just the walls I kept hitting piled up and left me for dead. With all it's headaches and nightmares, I can still do much more, much easier and more reliably with an iPhone or Android.
It's time to stop managing our tech, and expect that our tech will help manage our lives.
Thanks
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2
You have nicely captured many of the problems - the real issue here is whether MS is willing to fix RT enough to make it useful. I would gladly repurchase a Surface RT tablet if they do but I have a feeling they won't as long as the current management is there - in the decade since Ballmer has taken the reins MS has become a second-rate player and management has become increasingly out of touch with reality.
Thank you
I haven't followed the leadership enough to agree or disagree with the Balmer assessment. You may be correct.
But I wonder if the problem isn't deeper and ingrained in the corporate culture. People in leadership roles that can't or don't understand this new computing era. Teams stuck in the ruts of legacy. Innovation seen as too big a risk.
I also see MS, and many of the tech companies still seperating us into two defined groups and making old assumptions regarding what we need and want. Big company/Enterprise users and casual, home users. Today, I think the majority of people sit somewhere in between. I.e. Needing the advanced functions of Outlook, but not working on an Exchange server, or can't. Wanting to manage large media libraries across platforms, devices, and with choices such as to download or cloud store and stream.
Point is, the computing landscape has expanded tremendously and user needs have increased but also diversified. We need a lot more boxes than the old two.
Sadly, since I really wanted to love it, in comparing the RT with its counterparts, Android tablets and iPads, the Surface RT turned out to be an expensive toy. (That hurt). Picked up a Samsung Galaxy Tab, and had full functionality, far beyond the Surface in hours. You name it, I had it and it worked flawlessly. Truly a night and day experience.
Still hate Android though. Evil Google......Evil.
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2
Interestingly enough, I too turned back to a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 (I read a lot as well as listen to audio books). I too dislike android but I need my Gmail, calendar, etc and most of all, alarms that work, i.e., can turn themselves on even when the tablet sleeps. That's my pet peeve with any form of mobile windows going back to WinCE.
In any case, I'd chuck the Samsung for a Surface RT if the software worked - IMHO the Surface RT is the best tablet yet!
Latest rumorz sez that updates (not Blue) to all core apps are due some time in March. These are for both Win8 and RT.
I think folks are confusing RT v1.0 for RT the platform. One thing MS is known for is persisting with money-losing projects, and RT is a long-term bet. RT will stick around, even if v1.0 is a bit wanting.
What I'm interested in is what the pitch will be for this next rev. The "hybrid w/ bundled Office" spiel didn't work out.
PROGNOSTICATOR TIME! For Win8, the easy bet is that MS will double-down on same strategy as last year: bundling freebie Office w/ 10" & smaller tabs, and relying on faster hardware (Haswell, Bay Trail), lower prices (lower licensing, cheaper touch screens), and bug-fix/improvements to Win8 (Blue) to boost sales.
For RT, reportedly MS'll go small/cheap. That would mean naked tabs w/o keyboard since that adds to the cost, and smaller tabs can't have integrated KB anyway. Whatever happens, the heavy lifting will be all on MS, as vendor buy-in for RT is minimal. I see MS soft-selling RT for this next rev, since Metro isn't yet rolling. My guess is that we'll see a refreshed 10" along with a new 7" model, both with nominal market spend.
Speaking of Surface toys, I'd expect an Atom (Bay Trail) model to bridge the huge gap between the iCore and the RT, making it 4 models in all. If there's any adult left in MS management, the keyboard widget will be included in base pricing, and the whole line should drop by $100 for all models.
These may work, depending on what the competition is doing. If Apple goes ahead with the iWatch/iTV, or if Goog Glass hits the street, then frankly it doesn't matter what MS is doing with Windows. All the buzz will go to the new toys. That's the real problem for MS, it's forever fighting last year's wars.
BTW, looks like Blue leaks have started. You can catch up on the tidbits from the usual haunts. Incremental improvements as expected. No boot-to-desktop apparent. As with past Win releases, we should see RTM in July/Aug, and RC releases will be before that, so we'll know before long what cards MS will play for this year.
if there was an intel atom powered surface out already at about the same price as the RT (I might be willing to spare an extra £50 or so) then I would be all over that. Even better if it still had the wacom digitiser of the pro.
I do want to see a 7" windows device.
Hopefully they will also broaden their distribution - letting the morons at Best Buy introduce a new product is the kiss of death and MS's own stores are too few and far between.
Related
Ok, so here is my theory why it is taking Microsoft so long to release updates and bug fixes. I think the Windows Phone team is currently recoding Metro to run on top of Windows 8 instead of Windows CE. All the updates they are talking about down the road will be integrated into the new Windows 8 platform. Anyone else think this may be the case.
randude said:
Ok, so here is my theory why it is taking Microsoft so long to release updates and bug fixes. I think the Windows Phone team is currently recoding Metro to run on top of Windows 8 instead of Windows CE. All the updates they are talking about down the road will be integrated into the new Windows 8 platform. Anyone else think this may be the case.
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That'd be EPIC if it were true.
I'm fairly confident that WP8 will indeed run ontop of Windows 8.
why ?
why would you want wp8 when 7 is still so immature ? a complete rewrite again ? id rather see wp7 mature and actually be updated as promised before a new version was beta'd.
ohgood said:
why would you want wp8 when 7 is still so immature ? a complete rewrite again ? id rather see wp7 mature and actually be updated as promised before a new version was beta'd.
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Click to collapse
I very much enjoy my WP7 device thank you. There is no reason for me not to want a WP8 next year.
In any case, merging Windows CE and Windows "proper" makes perfect sense. I see no good reason to maintain two completely different codebases (Windows CE and Windows 8) once Windows runs on ARM. In many ways there is no need for a complete rewrite as Windows CE (albeit very old) was always the ARM (or, mobile if you wish) version of Windows - it includes many of the very same underlaying principles.
What many people are missing is that WP7 is not an OS as such, the OS is Windows CE. WP7 is the shell. Porting this to Windows 8 should require much less effort than maintaining WinCE.
Since [most] all third-party WP7 apps are frameworked it also means any existing apps will work on WP8.
If done correctly (and I know, this is Microsoft we are talking about - chances are slim) it would also enable devs to code/design apps for Windows Phone and Windows Slate simultaneously. Rather than offer two different versions the app would adapt to the form-factor it's currently running on.
I think they have to. Especially at the rate the competition is going, they will have to merge. They will have to do it fast, if they want to stay relevant.
from what I've read, many people feel that Microsoft will release "Mango" as 7.5, and then WP8 to coencide with Windows 8...bumping up a version number doesn't mean it's a total rewrite...just that it adds enough features to be considered a major enough update to get a new number. For example, iOS 4 wasn't a rewrite of iOS 3, and android 2.x isn't a total rewrite of android 1.x
vetvito said:
I think they have to. Especially at the rate the competition is going, they will have to merge. They will have to do it fast, if they want to stay relevant.
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Yep, and I'm sure Apple is going to have OS/X on Phones and Tablets next year.
I swear some of you people don't even think this through completely before making such baseless statements.
There's nothing saying they have to merge.
Windows just needed ARM support, which is basically done (and Microsoft probably was working on it for years beforehand - CE already basically worked on ARM and they've supported other platforms in the past) and of course another UI layer which they are working on.
However, this says nothing about the tons of Windows Apps which are optimized for non-touch keyboard+mouse use that will be basically broken on a touchscreen device.
You can use any HP touchscreen computer and see just how clunky a Win32 application is on a touchscreen computer. I don't see a majority of vendors running to revamp their application UIs to support touch, and a UI layer cannot do this on the fly due to the multitude of layouts, etc. used in Win32 applications.
Most vendors will basically have to create a touch and non-touch version of their applications.
That's why Apple is using iOS and not OS/X on their iPad. Icons and Widgets work better on larger tablet screens than Tiles, so while WP7 looks great on phones and certainly scales really well to larger/higher res displays... It would look terribad on a tablet, and lead to a ridiculous amount of wasted screen real estate.
I swear you must have misinterpreted my post.
Who said anything about OSX on a phone?
Jobs already said that wouldn't happen. IOS, WebOS(debatable) , and Android will continue to pave the future. Unless Microsoft does something, and I'm not talking about a Windows 7 tablet.
Windows is slow as hell compared to the competition. Look at Windows Media Center, and loom at Google TV, Apple TV.
ohgood said:
why would you want wp8 when 7 is still so immature ? a complete rewrite again ? id rather see wp7 mature and actually be updated as promised before a new version was beta'd.
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Click to collapse
That does not explain why MS failed to solve all the bugs listed here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9153088&postcount=1
the NoDo update, that arrived so late, shall logically have solved must of the above mentioned bugs/issues. But it didn't.
What are MS waiting for? They behave like they have no competitors.
If the applications are all managed code than who cares whether it's WinCE or Win32?
vangrieg said:
If the applications are all managed code than who cares whether it's WinCE or Win32?
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There are some differences between Silverlight on Windows Phone and Desktop. I believe Silverlight on Windows Phone is a fork of Silverlight 3, whereas the desktop is currently Silverlight 4. It'd be nice to see them converge at Silverlight 5 (crossing fingers for MIX 2011). I've heard plenty of rumors that Microsoft is at work on the compatibility issues.
Sure, but Silverlight can be updated with or without changing the underlying OS.
N8ter said:
I swear some of you people don't even think this through completely before making such baseless statements.
There's nothing saying they have to merge.
Windows just needed ARM support, which is basically done (and Microsoft probably was working on it for years beforehand - CE already basically worked on ARM and they've supported other platforms in the past) and of course another UI layer which they are working on.
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Click to collapse
You're right - there is nothing saying they have to. It makes sense business wise though. Rather than having two teams working full out maintaining two similar yet very different OSes they can have one team working on maintaining one OS running on both platforms.
CE does run on ARM, it has done so for years and it's been in use in the enterprise sector for as long. Problem is, WinCE, even in it's later versions is old tech. Not just from a UI perspective but the core OS is old tech.
N8ter said:
However, this says nothing about the tons of Windows Apps which are optimized for non-touch keyboard+mouse use that will be basically broken on a touchscreen device.
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Click to collapse
They won't be broken. They will function just as they have always done - with a mouse and/or keyboard. You can't take any old Win32 app and run it on ARM anyway, that's not the idea behind it at all.
N8ter said:
Most vendors will basically have to create a touch and non-touch version of their applications.
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Click to collapse
Again, no. They don't have to do anything of the kind. They can do so to stay relevant - especially if their app is the type of app that would be useful on a tablet, but they don't have to. Just because Win8 will have a tablet specific UI does not mean it will not also have the old desktop UI we're all used to. You need to make a distinction between OS and UI, they are two very different things.
arturobandini said:
That does not explain why MS failed to solve all the bugs listed here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9153088&postcount=1
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Click to collapse
While I agree, there are still some bugs in the OS, NoDo did fix the major ones. Most of the remaining ones are non reproducible or actually "as designed". Also, many of them are not OS bugs but rather bugs that only appear on certain handsets.
PG2G said:
There are some differences between Silverlight on Windows Phone and Desktop. I believe Silverlight on Windows Phone is a fork of Silverlight 3, whereas the desktop is currently Silverlight 4. It'd be nice to see them converge at Silverlight 5 (crossing fingers for MIX 2011). I've heard plenty of rumors that Microsoft is at work on the compatibility issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but that's of little concern really. As long as SLx is backwards compatible - which it will be, all existing apps will continue to run just fine. Also, with Silverlight finally coming to the Xbox they have all three screens covered (personally I would have preferred a new iteration of Media Center, but there's still time for that) - TV, Desktop and Mobile. The idea is that we as developers can code/design for the audience rather than the platform. Great things ahead if you ask me.
vetvito said:
I swear you must have misinterpreted my post.
Who said anything about OSX on a phone?
Jobs already said that wouldn't happen. IOS, WebOS(debatable) , and Android will continue to pave the future. Unless Microsoft does something, and I'm not talking about a Windows 7 tablet.
Windows is slow as hell compared to the competition. Look at Windows Media Center, and loom at Google TV, Apple TV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AppleTV and GoogleTV are Appliance products. Microsoft did have a TV thing a while back, but that's another story. Windows Media Center is fine.
If people aren't expecting Apple to put OS/X on tablets, etc. Why would you make a statement basically they have no choice but to merge WP7 and Windows eventually?
Also, I was talking about Windows 8 (which runs on ARM, and is coming with touch UI), not Windows 7...
N8ter said:
AppleTV and GoogleTV are Appliance products. Microsoft did have a TV thing a while back, but that's another story. Windows Media Center is fine.
If people aren't expecting Apple to put OS/X on tablets, etc. Why would you make a statement basically they have no choice but to merge WP7 and Windows eventually?
Also, I was talking about Windows 8 (which runs on ARM, and is coming with touch UI), not Windows 7...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My choice of words was wrong. My bad. I was meaning that they should do something, something faster than what they are doing. Phones are moving closer and closer to PC capabilities.
Windows Media Center sucks balls compared to Google TV, and Apple TV. I'm seriously thinking about throwing my HTPC out the window. Its embarrassing. I mentioned it because Microsoft basically invented this market, and now they've been left behind. Sort of like what's going on now.
vetvito said:
Windows Media Center sucks balls compared to Google TV, and Apple TV. I'm seriously thinking about throwing my HTPC out the window. Its embarrassing. I mentioned it because Microsoft basically invented this market, and now they've been left behind. Sort of like what's going on now.
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Windows Media Center is still the absolute best platform out there. Google TV has nothing on MC7. That said, they [MS] have definitely mismanaged the "platform", I say "platform" because Microsoft never saw it as a platform (God knows why?!). WES (Windows Embedded - which is basically a modularized version of Windows 7) should change this though. There were a few MC7 appliances on show at CES earlier this year and if they can deliver they will kill the competition.
From a WAF perspective nothing is close to MC7. From a live TV perspective the other platforms aren't even in the same ballpark.
emigrating said:
Windows Media Center is still the absolute best platform out there. Google TV has nothing on MC7. That said, they [MS] have definitely mismanaged the "platform", I say "platform" because Microsoft never saw it as a platform (God knows why?!). WES (Windows Embedded - which is basically a modularized version of Windows 7) should change this though. There were a few MC7 appliances on show at CES earlier this year and if they can deliver they will kill the competition.
From a WAF perspective nothing is close to MC7. From a live TV perspective the other platforms aren't even in the same ballpark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to know more. Honestly elaborate more. Media Center is awfully slow compared to Google TV. I don't have a gtv, but I demoed it. You can search for shows and the web in a overlay of what you're currently watching on gtv. On my HTPC running windows 7, that's impossible. Starting Media Center is unbelievably slow, and browsing through media in media center is not fun. Its laggy as hell. On GTV its instant.
vetvito said:
I'd like to know more. Honestly elaborate more. Media Center is awfully slow compared to Google TV. I don't have a gtv, but I demoed it. You can search for shows and the web in a overlay of what you're currently watching on gtv. On my HTPC running windows 7, that's impossible. Starting Media Center is unbelievably slow, and browsing through media in media center is not fun. Its laggy as hell. On GTV its instant.
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Click to collapse
If you find MC7 to be slow there is a problem with your machine (either hardware or software wise). I'm running it on several HTPCs in the house and there is no lag what so ever.
Comparing it to Google TV is kind of like comparing apples and oranges. They are both fruits, but that's pretty much it. Google TV does not have a live TV option as such - you have to feed the output of your DVR or whatever thru the gtv box. MC7 on the other hand accepts tuners (either local or remote) and acts as your DVR.
If you press the Guide button on your MC7 remote while watching TV it will overlay ontop of what you're watching, exactly like gtv. The guide is also one of the best in the industry (depending on your location of course). You also get [some] internet TV built in, but more can be added by installing a Hulu plugin. In addition you have Netflix etc.
I will agree that browsing the media on MC7 using the built-in functionality is rather lacking, but there are plenty of third-party apps that help with this. myTV is great for downloaded/recorded TV shows and My Movies is great for movies.
I've been using HTPCs for around 10 years and MC7 is IMO still the best option available and I've tried them all - multiple times
I'm running on a AMD 6000, dual core 3.2 ghz. 4gb of ram. That's more than enough for media.
Have you tried XBMC? It runs circles around Media Center. I haven't tried those plugins you mentioned, I will do that today.
Alright folks lets get this straight..
Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much. But whats the reason? its pretty simple:
People want APPS not just apps, but whats the difference?
We see Microsoft advertising their software (skype, skydrive etc) all the time but with the iphone in front of it, there is no sign of supporting their own ecosystem!!!!
The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has. Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements!
I actually think that if MS were to tie Google services in a bit tighter (counter-productive to Bing, I know) they'd see a wider adoption.
WP7 is at a disadvantage as Android and iOS had time to 'mature' in the market and get the userbase using their respective services before the WP alternative even existed. I know personally, I migrated away from MS services like Hotmail once I stopped using WinMo 6.
Without support for competitors services, there's not even an inclination to 'jump ship' and experience the other side. I enjoy using WP7 a lot - there's no more fluid experience on the market today. But because I can't properly use all my (now Google) services, I can never daily drive it.
yes thats also a good point! if they would work together with google in "peace" users would be more thankful. In europe bing is useless to be honest
Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them.
Years of... *shudder*... windows mobile. That was an extremely extremely niche platform. iPhone-type users (their new target) ran away screaming.
The Lumia 900 should've been the device that launched the whole thing. Not one that came out 1.5 years after, and that followed it's little brother. 800 first? So people see it, aren't impressed, then see an ad for the 900... which is indistinguishable to people (present company excepted of course). It's just been ****ty luck and history mixed with bad marketing decisions.
Its Microsoft’s own fault things are the way they are. With Windows Mobile they didn't consider the phone market to serious until they saw Apples success but then they still came late to the game because instead of making Windows Mobile better they decided they would scrap it and come up with something new; only thing was that even though Windows Phone is faster and doesn’t freeze as much, they took away all features and functionality that people were used to. With Microsoft being so busy trying to be like Apple, Android took advantage of that; they knew that people didn't want a locked down OS. It is a shame that I have to hack, mod and flash my phone to have simple stuff like BT file transfer, video MMS, and a lot of other simple stuff that's avilabe for other phone OS's out there. I hope they don't screw up Windows Phone 8 like they did with Windows Phone 7.
I'm not at all worried about it. What you're seeing is the calm before the storm. When Windows 8 launches, Metro will be the new UI seen in every corner of the globe. The attention it will draw will bring more attention to Windows Phone--probably 8--at the same time. In the same launch window, and with the Windows Phone 8 OS, we'll finally see WP devices get hardware parity with Android devices, supporting multiple cores and large quantities of memory.
SkyDrive and Live Apps services are evolving week by week and making tremendous strides in a very short span of time. We're already using the SkyDrive app on current desktops and laptops, making it easy to move important files to Windows 8, and use documents across all our Microsoft connected devices.
It's correct to say that Windows Phone's struggles have all been Microsoft's own fault for lollygagging in the marketplace. There's no denying that, Microsoft screwed up. But they're heading in the right direction now, and it's only a matter of time before things turn around
I would say with market share that has doubled in the first quarter of 2012 in the USA and market share going up all around the world, that for a new ecosystem in the mobile world it is actually doing fairly well. With WP8 just around the corner and it being able to support much better hardware and screens and more customisation I would say that number will start to go up even quicker, it will be the 3rd ecosystem for sure fairly soon, It may even jump to 2 in certain countries around the world.
bassembrace said:
Alright folks lets get this straight..
Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much.
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We need to see Q2 global sales. I haven't bought a smartphone in YEARS and I finally jumped on the Windows Phone/Nokia bandwagon.
bassembrace said:
The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has.
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Maybe. Statistics have shown most apps are never used a couple of weeks after they are downloaded. The ridiculous app numbers quoted for iOS are pointless. The vast majority of them, 99%, have zero utility for me.
bassembrace said:
Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements!
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Click to collapse
Marketing.
Beta was better than VHS. VHS won. The sheeple don't care about quality. It's not a case of "if you build it they will come." It is a case of "if you market it they will come." Anyone that holds a Lumia 900 up next to ANY iPhone and determines the iPhone is better is insane. Girlfriend has iPhone 4S. She saw my Lumia 900. She wanted one. Simple as that. You add in the fact the Lumia was FREE for weeks and you really need your head examined if you don't give it serious consideration. FREE Nokia drive?! Same GF had to pay $40.00 for Garmin app for a recent trip. That's $40 more than I paid for my phone and FREE nokia drive. Do NOT get me started on LTE.
The best does not always win. I just want three strong ecosystems competing. Watch what happens. iPhone 5 gonna come out with much larger screen. If not they are going to look silly next to Lumia 900 and Samsung Note. Samsung Note is redonkulous.
jasongw said:
I'm not at all worried about it. What you're seeing is the calm before the storm. When Windows 8 launches, Metro will be the new UI seen in every corner of the globe. The attention it will draw will bring more attention to Windows Phone--probably 8--at the same time. In the same launch window, and with the Windows Phone 8 OS, we'll finally see WP devices get hardware parity with Android devices, supporting multiple cores and large quantities of memory.
SkyDrive and Live Apps services are evolving week by week and making tremendous strides in a very short span of time. We're already using the SkyDrive app on current desktops and laptops, making it easy to move important files to Windows 8, and use documents across all our Microsoft connected devices.
It's correct to say that Windows Phone's struggles have all been Microsoft's own fault for lollygagging in the marketplace. There's no denying that, Microsoft screwed up. But they're heading in the right direction now, and it's only a matter of time before things turn around
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope your right and I also hope no more of this Apple style locked down crap either. What MS has failed to remember is that WM had a very faithful following because it was way better and user friendly than the iCrap.
Not another one. Dig up threads from 2 years ago, and you'll see people with the exact same arguments.
Either way I look forward to BB and WP8.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
sure haven't said:
Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them.
Years of... *shudder*... windows mobile. That was an extremely extremely niche platform. iPhone-type users (their new target) ran away screaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me get this laid out so I can understand:
Why is Windows Phone not doing well?
"Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them."
- So then why is Windows 7, the OS that actually is in the exact same product space, doing fantastically well?
Honestly, guys, if an argument has to be made there really needs to be some kind of logical progression to it.
Windows Phone is not doing well like every single OS not called "Android" or "iOS" because those are the most dominant OSes right now. Why are they dominant? Because Apple recreated the whole thumb optimized, mass-market smartphone experience and Google quickly followed suit. Everyone else (BB OS, Palm, Symbian, WinMo) were all caught napping and look are where they are now. When you bring Microsoft unique reasons you are failing to explain why RIM is also slowly dying as well. why Nokia killed off Symbian. Why WebOS could not make it.
I wish someone would put a sticky stating exactly why Windows Phone has such a low marketshare right now:
Android and iOs have the lion's share of the market. Either an iPhone or one of the hundreds of Android phones meet or exceed the average user's needs in a smartphone. There is no compelling reason right now for the average consumer to leave iOS or Android and go to Windows Phone.
There really is no mystery behind it. It is plain and simple. A co-worker just got a Samsung Focus used and his first reaction was "wow this thing is fast and smooth." I told him amazing too on a single core cpu. He has played with his share of Android phones. He then went on to curse having to use Zune to do his file management. lol.
But there is nothing really to dwell on. Vet is right; this topic is past being a dead horse. The Lumia 900 gave a little glimmer of something that would compel some people to switch, but there needs to be more handsets, features, and apps. And then they will come over. And that will take time.
Lets hope they will do it! I remember when i got my hd7 my friends were like "whoaaa, you have windows phone!!" but now after they used my phone a few times theyre like "oh you still have this phone?" and i say yes because i love it, i love the OS and even the HD7 hardware but you cant do so much withouth the "exclusive" apps. I hope MCSFT get the most important cross platform apps to windows phone and dont scr** them up, like skype with no notification and background system or the new app viber without VOIP
Window mobile phone not going down at all. I honestly like what Microsoft's doing. There not pushing pointless apps out, there not shipping out phones that's loading with battery killing/memory hog apps.
Only thing that there behind in and my opinion is the build quality. 8G of memory no micro SD card slot! That's kills a perfect phone! If Ur going to do that - Microsoft, make an 8G, 16G, 32G, and 64G version
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
So if all of this is true why do they market Windows Phone to not be in beta?
Because even in this, "beta" of sorts it runs smoother and is a better device than the competition.
Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.
With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).
Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/
z33dev33l said:
Because even in this, "beta" of sorts it runs smoother and is a better device than the competition.
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Click to collapse
So true! I was playing with the lumia 710 at an T-Mobile kiosk at the mall, and i fell in love. I wanted to leave my phone there and run away with the 710.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
magicsquid said:
Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.
With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).
Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great post is great.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
nicksti said:
Let me get this laid out so I can understand:
Why is Windows Phone not doing well?
"Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them."
- So then why is Windows 7, the OS that actually is in the exact same product space, doing fantastically well?
Honestly, guys, if an argument has to be made there really needs to be some kind of logical progression to it.
Windows Phone is not doing well like every single OS not called "Android" or "iOS" because those are the most dominant OSes right now. Why are they dominant? Because Apple recreated the whole thumb optimized, mass-market smartphone experience and Google quickly followed suit. Everyone else (BB OS, Palm, Symbian, WinMo) were all caught napping and look are where they are now. When you bring Microsoft unique reasons you are failing to explain why RIM is also slowly dying as well. why Nokia killed off Symbian. Why WebOS could not make it.
I wish someone would put a sticky stating exactly why Windows Phone has such a low marketshare right now:
Android and iOs have the lion's share of the market. Either an iPhone or one of the hundreds of Android phones meet or exceed the average user's needs in a smartphone. There is no compelling reason right now for the average consumer to leave iOS or Android and go to Windows Phone.
There really is no mystery behind it. It is plain and simple. A co-worker just got a Samsung Focus used and his first reaction was "wow this thing is fast and smooth." I told him amazing too on a single core cpu. He has played with his share of Android phones. He then went on to curse having to use Zune to do his file management. lol.
But there is nothing really to dwell on. Vet is right; this topic is past being a dead horse. The Lumia 900 gave a little glimmer of something that would compel some people to switch, but there needs to be more handsets, features, and apps. And then they will come over. And that will take time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They still don't get it. 2 years and they don't get it.
BTW the new app deal by Nokia is horrible. MS should be doing it for the entire platform not just for Nokia. Some apps will be exclusive until 2013.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
vetvito said:
Not another one. Dig up threads from 2 years ago, and you'll see people with the exact same arguments.
Either way I look forward to BB and WP8.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 ...Yes ..another one !!!
Get a life m8's No its not going down ..
I have the Samsung Ativ Smart PC. It is nice, but I am experiencing some of the problems you may have read about, which is the keyboard not connecting right at times, and the pen sometimes not working. I can return it for a full refund. I got it because of wanting full windows 8, but I find that I only really use Office. Otherwise I never really use many legacy apps. So, I was wanting those with a Surface, which is probably what I will get, or another rt version tablet, to let me know what your experience is like, particularly with office 2013. Do you find you miss legacy apps at all? You know, stuff like that. Thanks guys and gals for your feedback. :highfive:
Spectredroid said:
I have the Samsung Ativ Smart PC. It is nice, but I am experiencing some of the problems you may have read about, which is the keyboard not connecting right at times, and the pen sometimes not working. I can return it for a full refund. I got it because of wanting full windows 8, but I find that I only really use Office. Otherwise I never really use many legacy apps. So, I was wanting those with a Surface, which is probably what I will get, or another rt version tablet, to let me know what your experience is like, particularly with office 2013. Do you find you miss legacy apps at all? You know, stuff like that. Thanks guys and gals for your feedback. :highfive:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah,if you don't really use many legacy apps,It makes good sense to switch to windows RT cuz surface comes preloaded with Microsoft Office Home & Student 2013 RT Preview1—touch-optimized versions of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote. This preview version will be automatically updated by Windows Update when the final version is available. For more details, see Office.com/OfficeRT.
Keep in mind that Outlook is NOT Included in RT. Other than that, RT is a good choice of you only use office.
@mrappbrain: The final version of Office for RT came out weeks ago. If it's not preinstalled on a new RT device, it will be in the first set of updates.
@phailyoor: This is true, and a good thing to point out (other not-included Office products include Publisher, Access, Visio, and probably some other stuff). However, for basic email and calendaring, RT (or Win8 in general) does come with built-in apps that can communicate with Exchange (or other mail servers). They're no better than the typical smartphone app in my opinion (worse in some ways) but they'll let you send and receive mail, delete stuff and move it to folders, create and respond to meeting requests... it works.
I miss having support for some legacy apps, like Java or a good media player that can play mkv's, like what is available on Android. Apps will come in time, not sure if Java will ever come though.
I'd like more PDF apps to come. Something the equivalent of GoodReader from iOS would be awesome but even if it was as good as Repligo on Android, I'd be satisfied. Adobe is bleh.
I can see the need for an app like a good home/interior design app. I haven't checked but an app to at least view AutoCAD drawings would be great. Doing minor edits would be very handy.
Having regular Windows 8, not RT, helps make up for some apps missing in the Windows Store. The desktop app for Dropbox is one example. I just pin a tile for that on the Start screen. Also, you can't upload folders, only files, using the Win Store app for SkyDrive or Google Drive. This is where the desktop app comes in handy. These are just some examples, I'm sure there are many others. Of course, ymmv.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express
goofball2k said:
I miss having support for some legacy apps, like Java or a good media player that can play mkv's, like what is available on Android. Apps will come in time, not sure if Java will ever come though.
I'd like more PDF apps to come. Something the equivalent of GoodReader from iOS would be awesome but even if it was as good as Repligo on Android, I'd be satisfied. Adobe is bleh.
I can see the need for an app like a good home/interior design app. I haven't checked but an app to at least view AutoCAD drawings would be great. Doing minor edits would be very handy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mobile.HD plays MKVs pretty well, though it's got some stuttering issues with network play. They updated last night to support DTS too.
Spectredroid said:
Do you find you miss legacy apps at all?
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Click to collapse
I got a Asus VivoTab RT for $400 with the dock included for free at the Microsoft Store here in SoCal. It's an amazing machine for the price:
- 16 hour battery life
- SuperIPS+ screen
- Office included
- Ultrabook portability
- Dual Laptop / Tablet
- HDMI capability
- Only $400!
Windows RT is a great operating system for someone like me who doesn't need some crazy "i7 with 8gb of ram" behemoth. For a college student like myself, its perfect :victory:
A few annoyances though, specifically with the browser:
- No Chrome or Firefox (obviously since this is RT)
- If your in the Metro Internet Explorer the only way to search for anything is to swipe up or right click to bring up the URL bar, then click on the URL bar. It's an additional step to always have to swipe, then click... instead of having a search bar always present. Just an additional step I would like to avoid if possible. Of course, you can go to the desktop version of Internet Explorer to have a search bar always available but it is too thick imo and needlessly wastes space.
- Adblocker isn't supported on Internet Explorer 10. You can set up privacy protection lists which help out a tiny bit but for the most part you will get ad's on web pages.
- You can't hover over areas on webpages with the mouse cursor to bring up hidden menus. Only thing you can do is to click on them which will take you to a whole different webpage.
- Tegra 3 lags a tiny bit. Not terribly, but I had to get used to relaxing when a page is loading before trying to scroll around / click on links.
Of course I like the convenience of legacy apps...
... but its easy to adapt and I like the amazing battery life, portability, a $100 value with office included, and the major security provided by windows rt more
Hope this helps with your decision
Only MS manufactures Windows RT
ap3604 said:
I got a Asus VivoTab RT for $400 with the dock included for free at the Microsoft Store here in SoCal. It's an amazing machine for the price:
- 16 hour battery life
- SuperIPS+ screen
- Office included
- Ultrabook portability
- Dual Laptop / Tablet
- HDMI capability
- Only $400!
Windows RT is a great operating system for someone like me who doesn't need some crazy "i7 with 8gb of ram" behemoth. For a college student like myself, its perfect :victory:
A few annoyances though, specifically with the browser:
- No Chrome or Firefox (obviously since this is RT)
- If your in the Metro Internet Explorer the only way to search for anything is to swipe up or right click to bring up the URL bar, then click on the URL bar. It's an additional step to always have to swipe, then click... instead of having a search bar always present. Just an additional step I would like to avoid if possible. Of course, you can go to the desktop version of Internet Explorer to have a search bar always available but it is too thick imo and needlessly wastes space.
- Adblocker isn't supported on Internet Explorer 10. You can set up privacy protection lists which help out a tiny bit but for the most part you will get ad's on web pages.
- You can't hover over areas on webpages with the mouse cursor to bring up hidden menus. Only thing you can do is to click on them which will take you to a whole different webpage.
- Tegra 3 lags a tiny bit. Not terribly, but I had to get used to relaxing when a page is loading before trying to scroll around / click on links.
Of course I like the convenience of legacy apps...
... but its easy to adapt and I like the amazing battery life, portability, a $100 value with office included, and the major security provided by windows rt more
Hope this helps with your decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have heard that only Microsoft produces surface RT and the other manufactures stop making windows RT, I wonder if we still consider getting the next generation surface windows RT(? a new name?) made by Microsoft which has a history of discontinuing their products in a short period of time after the production of a device. Any suggestions or comments.
wnandroid said:
I have heard that only Microsoft produces surface RT and the other manufactures stop making windows RT, I wonder if we still consider getting the next generation surface windows RT(? a new name?) made by Microsoft which has a history of discontinuing their products in a short period of time after the production of a device. Any suggestions or comments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread is 8 months old. All manufacturers have discontinued RT devices, thats old news. Microsoft already unveiled the Surface 2 (dropped the RT section of the name).
wnandroid said:
I have heard that only Microsoft produces surface RT and the other manufactures stop making windows RT, I wonder if we still consider getting the next generation surface windows RT(? a new name?) made by Microsoft which has a history of discontinuing their products in a short period of time after the production of a device. Any suggestions or comments.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that MS is releasing the second generation is the best answer for your question. Those who bought the first generation have been enjoying for one year and will enjoy them for another year. The second generation is more powerful and I expect to see new Apps coming using the new hardware capabilities. Those new Apps will drive more users. That's what I believe will happen during 2014. If that happens we will see many new generations coming, if that does not happen we will see one more generation coming and that means for current owners 3 years of joy.
ctitanic said:
The fact that MS is releasing the second generation is the best answer for your question. Those who bought the first generation have been enjoying for one year and will enjoy them for another year. The second generation is more powerful and I expect to see new Apps coming using the new hardware capabilities. Those new Apps will drive more users. That's what I believe will happen during 2014. If that happens we will see many new generations coming, if that does not happen we will see one more generation coming and that means for current owners 3 years of joy.
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Click to collapse
Thank you very much for this comment. Despite having 3 windows RT devices for my adult children using in colleges, at least we can use them for 3 years or more. We use the MS office often and some apps. We then look forward to having the Outlook to be installed when the upgrade windows 8.1 being sent to users.
is it worth to switch from android tablet to RT one?
441Excelsior said:
is it worth to switch from android tablet to RT one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
depends on your usage. If its a tablet purely for web browsing, your getting full internet explorer 10 (RT 8.0) or 11 (RT 8.1) not some shoddy mobile browser calling itself chrome or safari while not being anywhere near as good as chrome or safari on an actual PC. Plus you get a damn good office suite.
App front. That is a subject which is more debateable.
yey
SixSixSevenSeven said:
depends on your usage. If its a tablet purely for web browsing, your getting full internet explorer 10 (RT 8.0) or 11 (RT 8.1) not some shoddy mobile browser calling itself chrome or safari while not being anywhere near as good as chrome or safari on an actual PC. Plus you get a damn good office suite.
App front. That is a subject which is more debateable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very true. I'm using my surface 2 now, and as a student, it's fits all my needs. Awesome battery life, 1080p screen, ms office + full fledged web browser. For me, I find apps being pretty useless if there is a full web browser. You have to keep in mind, when you're buying an android or iOS device, it is for consuming information, rarely producing information. If you are watching movies, going on youtube, reading news 90% of the time, then an iPad would suit you better. However if you are a uni student, then my opinion is RT / surface 2 hands down - i can't reiterate enough how perfect it is for a uni student. Props to MS.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no MS fan... I've always used iPhones and that has kinda stuck with me. Getting my first tablet I really thought of why I needed one and what functions I needed, and oh boy am I glad I chose the Surface RT last year.
jimmng said:
very true. I'm using my surface 2 now, and as a student, it's fits all my needs. Awesome battery life, 1080p screen, ms office + full fledged web browser. For me, I find apps being pretty useless if there is a full web browser. You have to keep in mind, when you're buying an android or iOS device, it is for consuming information, rarely producing information. If you are watching movies, going on youtube, reading news 90% of the time, then an iPad would suit you better. However if you are a uni student, then my opinion is RT / surface 2 hands down - i can't reiterate enough how perfect it is for a uni student. Props to MS.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no MS fan... I've always used iPhones and that has kinda stuck with me. Getting my first tablet I really thought of why I needed one and what functions I needed, and oh boy am I glad I chose the Surface RT last year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your usage does demonstrate perfectly how dependent it is on the user whether RT is suitable or not. I am also a university student, however a huge amount of software I require on my course is not available for RT and not a porting candidate (either GNU build tools or entirely closed source) so for me I couldnt use it
I would still take the surface over an iPad any day Movies, youtube and news can all be done on RT and the first gen surface is cheaper than the iPad, not sure about second gen having not checked the price.
It's a beta! It's buggy, it's slow (at least on a Surface RT).
If you use your tablet daily, stay away from this thing. Wait for the full release.
SilverHedgehog said:
It's a beta! It's buggy, it's slow (at least on a Surface RT).
If you use your tablet daily, stay away from this thing. Wait for the full release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
expecting bumps. so far it's good and I am not experiencing any hiccups yet. I very much like the changes.
cheers
Well, I found it rather buggy - though considering how I use it, I'm rather surprised how well it works in 8.0. Still, a warning might be a good idea - I'm sick of people attacking companies when beta software is behaving like beta software.
It's also so limited in terms of the number of devices and regions it will actually install in, I rather get the impression it was a real rush job to try and show that improvements are at least coming at some point.
SilverHedgehog said:
It's a beta! It's buggy, it's slow (at least on a Surface RT).
If you use your tablet daily, stay away from this thing. Wait for the full release.
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Click to collapse
I don`t stand by you .I think the RT 8.1 is perfect。The experience on my surface RT is nice
seven7xiaoyang said:
I don`t stand by you .I think the RT 8.1 is perfect。The experience on my surface RT is nice
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Click to collapse
I second that.. My Surface is faster and smoother now. Especially with IE11. I have no more lags or getting the Browser to freeze. I love it!
I have the 8.1 Preview on my Surface RT and it seems fine. I wouldn't caution anybody against it based on what I've seen so far.
Tk
ToddKlindt said:
I have the 8.1 Preview on my Surface RT and it seems fine. I wouldn't caution anybody against it based on what I've seen so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jailbreak. 'Nuff said.
Using Spotify crashes the browser - worked perfectly in 8.0.
A reminder to all who find bugs: PLEASE report them to MS! This is our last chance to ask Microsoft to fix things while the software is in development. Once it ships and gets handed off to a maintenance team, changes will be much slower to arrive.
Note: while the continued restriction on running our own desktop apps is not strictly a bug, this is also a good time to complain to MS about that; it's a very easy policy for them to change, if they decide it would be worth it!
So far my experience with windows rt. 8.1 is very nice. I like the outlook 2013, the keyboard and the response time of the tablet.
GoodDayToDie said:
A reminder to all who find bugs: PLEASE report them to MS! This is our last chance to ask Microsoft to fix things while the software is in development. Once it ships and gets handed off to a maintenance team, changes will be much slower to arrive.
Note: while the continued restriction on running our own desktop apps is not strictly a bug, this is also a good time to complain to MS about that; it's a very easy policy for them to change, if they decide it would be worth it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to read up on win32 vs. RT as well as some basic application architecture, then you will see why your complaint isn't valid.
Just because it has a pretty desktop and a run box doesn't mean apps magically work... Code for winform apps has to be compiled for arm vs x86/x64 to function and that just isn't going to happen. Explorer is there for a shim/stopgap.. By win9, will likely be gone for good.
This is like winnt on alpha and 2008 on titanium all over again... Except its now in the hands of consumers that don't understand what's going on under the covers.
MS should have never put a traditional desktop/explorer in RT and just finished the port of apps to modernui because its confusing to the average user.
Just think if apple had a shortcut in iOS to give you a macosx desktop that didn't run Mac apps..
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
@libbycm: Despite being here even longer than I have, you appear to have no idea who you're talking to *or* what you're talking about.
I maintain the Ported Apps thread for RT, and have ported a few of them myself (and should get back into it with something more realistic than Chrome, which I still hope to get working Some Day Soon Now). I am quite *personally* familiar with the requirements of porting, the difficulties of working around missing functionality (almost all of which, it should be noted, is missing by design and not neccessity), and the realities of what an ARM processor can and cannot do.
First of all, .NET apps (including WinForms ones and even once that use COM or P/Invoke to system libraries) work just fine, no recompile needed. That's a pretty small portion of the overall Windows software ecosystem, of course, but it's a growing one and also it's one that would be seen as worth targeting by more developers if they saw an actual benefit to architecture-independent toolchains on Windows.
Second, and related to the first, .NET is far from the only architecture-independent language. Java (though IKVM, though .NET) kind of works on RT already; it wouldn't take much to make a serious platform worthy of an official port. Same for Python, and we already have Perl. Yeah, that's still miniscule next to the bulk of legacy x86 code, but it would nonetheless make RT a far more popular platform (for example, many of the Windows bittorrent clients are either Java or Python code, and some very popular games are written in those languages).
Third, even with the crippled tools that we have cobbled together to do our porting, and despite the fact that it's all done on our own time, we've managed a fair number of native ports already. There'd be far more if it weren't for the fact that we can't port closed-source programs (and many open-source ones don't happily compile under MSVC, which is the only RT-targeting compiler we have right now). Already, a growing number of programs are natively available on x64 - after all, it's just a drop-down selection and another click on "Build" in Visual Studio. Well, the same is true of RT. It wouldn't get legacy software, but there's no reason that *new* software released in the last half year - even proprietary commercial stuff - couldn't support RT. After all, it's more customer base for almost no additional work (supporting x64 is sometimes actually more work than supported ARM; at least ARM uses the same-width pointers as x86).
Fourth, legacy code is - by its very nature - older code and generally suitable for running on less-powerful systems. You mentioned Apple... but you failed to mention that when Apple went from 68k CPUs to PowerPC CPUs, and then from PPC to x86, they used mostly-transparent emulation layers to bridge those gaps. Yeah, the code ran slower, but it ran well enough for most purposes. Yeah, ARM is *less* powerful than x86, not more powerful (although you could argue that the same is true for some use cases when going from a G5 to a first-gen Core Duo), but we've also gotten better at this emulation thing. When Apple did it before, they hired the best folks in the business, and pushed the entire field of CPU emulation forward with their need to make it work. When Microsoft declined to do that, one guy on XDA took it upon himself, in his free time, with only a partial toolchain and no access to Windows internals, hacking on open-source pieces, and built a transparent emulation layer for RT. Microsoft's Windows application compatibility team almost certainly loses more man-hours in one day's bathroom breaks than @mamaich has been able to spend on that project to date, and yet some of those very same people who pushed the whole industry forward at Apple, doing things like inventing what is today called dynamic recompilation, now work at Microsoft. They have the expertise to make it work if they'd wanted to.
Fifth, Windows on Itanium failed (mostly; it's still being used, just not developed) because Itaniums were targeted specifically at the enterprise market but weren't very good even there; there's plenty of software for that instruction set in the aforementioned market. Alpha (never mind Windows on Alpha, which I actually know people who used and worked on) failed because DEC wanted outrageous sums of money for it, seeking high-end margins instead of embracing the commodity market. Had they done otherwise, they might even still exist as a company today. NT on MIPS and PPC was similarly niche, targeting brand new (and poorly-merketed) segments that didn't have great penetration in the ecosystem (NT for PPC was a server/workstation OS, not a MacOS alternative). Unlike all those achitectures, though, ARM is well established in the consumer market for commodity computers, and its market share there is growing. If Microsoft is serious about succeeding with RT (and I think they are), they should look at the success story in that market... and it's not Apple anymore. Despite Apple's huge first-mover advantage with the consumer market, Android is rolling over them. Yet Microsoft seems determined to repeat many of Apple's mistakes, despite having precious few of its advantages. They need to make themselves a better Android, not a me-too Apple clone.
Sixth, while Microsoft has made no secret of their desire to move to WinRT, I don't really forsee them having much more success with that than with their prior effort to move people to .NET; lots of small developers will go, but the big programs that are the movers and shakers of the Windows world will stick with the vastly more powerful, flexible, and (frankly) useful Win32 API. Porting an app to RT is a hell of a lot harder than porting x86 native code to ARM, though...
On January 10, 2011, Microsoft announced Windows Embedded Handheld 6.5, the last windows mobile family product. since then it stopped supporting it's best mobile product
examples are closing market, not publishing fresh bing and skype, threatening us it will stop support on live messenger, stopping microsoft facebook app, iexplorer, fully stopping donations do third party software publishers. It is determined to kill this great product.
If microsoft had decided to evolve wm 6.5.5 to windows mobile 7 keeping backwards compatibility, i am sure it could keep windows mobile's big market share. instead of this it decided to create a monster mobile os (windows phone) totally closed, hardware dependent, non customizable. Google was smart enough to keep or adopt wm nice features and dominate with android
Microsoft is fool enough to expect after what it did to wm users (abandoning them), people to trust it again and buy it's new products (windows phone)
So i am opening a petition to show microsoft that wm users are still many and that we demand support, at least on the above products i mentioned.
Please vote here
http://www.ipetition...tion/wmsupport/
Have a look at the following article from the UK's Computing Magazine.
http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/feat...r-windows-as-hillarys-blinds-opts-for-android
It more or less sums it up, when a dedicated user of WM 6.5 handsets, decides to ditch the lot in favour of Android because of the uncertainty involved in WM and Windows Phone, and the incompatibility between them. These devices are far more than phones. They are line of business hand held order terminals that allow the sales representative to produce an on the spot quote for a client. They have become essential tools of the business.
Microsoft, in its attempt to try and follow the Apple model, has alienated countless users. If it involves a Herculean effort to port an application from Windows Mobile 5/6 to Windows Phone 7/8, it is probably not much harder to port it to a completely different platform.
Hillarys was probably not the first company to do this, and I am certain it won't be the last.
See http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2415482
Any SW that pulls contents online or relying on online backend support will likely cease to work. And, if the provider is Microsoft, you are rest assured that it will happen sooner that other 3rd-party providers.
Its indeed sad that Microsoft alienated WM users
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you think Microsoft harmed its customers by stopping support to windows mobile (most of users were businessmen/women). The company harmed itself. i am sure if gates was still the boss he will never get this kind of stupid decision. New CEO seems to get money from google to lead all the company's mobile customers to android. They doing their best about this. Stop one app after another. They think they lead us to windows phone this, but in fact they are leading us to android.
Windows mobile was fully customizable, platform independent, with thousands of apps, mature, tested fast
Windows phone is non customizable (i hate stupid home screen tiles), platform dependent (qualcomm only), with very few apps (fewer for business use), less tested and less beloved.
Android was very smart and covered Microsoft's stupidity, by cloning windows mobile best features (customizable, platform independent, with thousands of apps, now mature, now tested)
Android is the new windows mobile. It is replacing windows mobile (and windows CE) on all portable devices i know. Microsoft shot it's base clients and killed herself. i am never going to buy windows phone as long as they want to keep their OS locked. Most wm lovers too. Once traitor (of customers) all time traitor (in near future MS will betray WP7 and WP8 users for another stupid idea).
if i was MS CEO i would have fired the person had the idea about abandoning wm and start from zero point with Windows Phone on his form. If was CEO's idea he should resign and admit his failure on the stockholders.
It maybe that Windows RT, the ARM Windows 8 OS for tablets, could be going the same way.
Since its launch, all other manufacturers of the devices have pulled out due to disappointing sales. The last to pull its products was Dell, now leaving Microsoft as the sole supplier of the devices in a dwindling share of the market.
Somehow, it all sounds vaguely familiar.
stephj said:
It maybe that Windows RT, the ARM Windows 8 OS for tablets, could be going the same way.
Since its launch, all other manufacturers of the devices have pulled out due to disappointing sales. The last to pull its products was Dell, now leaving Microsoft as the sole supplier of the devices in a dwindling share of the market.
Somehow, it all sounds vaguely familiar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same to me
But Windows Mobile was loads better
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spkraul said:
On January 10, 2011, Microsoft announced Windows Embedded Handheld 6.5, the last windows mobile family product. since then it stopped supporting it's best mobile product
examples are closing market, not publishing fresh bing and skype, threatening us it will stop support on live messenger, stopping microsoft facebook app, iexplorer, fully stopping donations do third party software publishers. It is determined to kill this great product.
If microsoft had decided to evolve wm 6.5.5 to windows mobile 7 keeping backwards compatibility, i am sure it could keep windows mobile's big market share. instead of this it decided to create a monster mobile os (windows phone) totally closed, hardware dependent, non customizable. Google was smart enough to keep or adopt wm nice features and dominate with android
Microsoft is fool enough to expect after what it did to wm users (abandoning them), people to trust it again and buy it's new products (windows phone)
So i am opening a petition to show microsoft that wm users are still many and that we demand support, at least on the above products i mentioned.
Please vote here
http://www.ipetition...tion/wmsupport/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good idea! W.M. has a lot of qualities.
I'm sign the petition but I think I will make a better one on another site. (There will be other reasons for more recipients)
Windows Mobile rocked, and so did my HTC Touch Pro 2!
Actually, I think that was part of MS's motivation to not make WP7 backward compatible with WM - to force people to get new handsets.
If WP7 *was* backward compatible with WM, I'd probably still be using my Touch Pro 2 today (over 4 years after I originally purchased it)!!!
Win Mobile 6.1 is best!
Windows mobile ah yes, this is the best operating system for advanced users. Before winmo I have been using nokia phones such as 3310 and 3510i and it was always too simple and not costumizable, I always wanted to get a device, that is more advaced, costumizable and professional and you know more like desktop computer. I found out that that device is pocket pc. I didn't even mind if it didn't have phone, taking another device for phone stuff, was/is not problem fpr me was never as I prefer dumb phone for actual phone functionality anyway.
So I got this budget pda ipaq rz1710 in 2005 oh yeah its still working and is somewhere), mastered winmo quickly(something majority of users could't do). Even through that PPC had very limited ram and no bt or wifi I loved it, I played games, listened to music, watched full movies, installed programs like pocket plus, mbutton and many that costumize UI. I especially enjoyed customzing it and I still do it on both desktop windows and windows mobile.
In 2007 when first iphone came out, I couldn't give two ****s about this overhyped phone with locked down os, which has kids gui (like all smartphones do today), was/is locked down and not costumizable at all. Instead Iphone I just bought a hx4700 (which I used since and I still do, since its just awesome ppc), love its nice vga screen and the fact it has everything what ipaq rz1700 lacked, such as bt, wifi, cf card, 200% faster cpu, more ram and 128mb rom which enables me to flash all the custom roms.
The only real flaw is touchpad instead dpad, god I hate that thing, what were they thinking? So yeah I gamed less on this pda, than on rz1700 because of that, but I mastered the touchpad and it isn't that bad after you get used to it, sadly it makes games that use dpad much more challenging as it is nearly unplayable.
So here I'm in 2013, still rocking with my hx4700, love this pda, its one of best ppc ever made, so I bought another one this year, due the fact that the old one got really worn, especially screen. It got worn so much that the protective layer of digitizer started pealing off! Oh and I broke two touchpads during those years, so I got the third one from ipaqrepair.com. Touch pad is not just bad its also the least durable part of the pda. Quality of hx4700 is amazing, I caried it every where and the original battery degraded only by 30% of battery life in those years, unlike htc hd2 which had for less than year and battery already barely works now and can die in 20 minutes of use! (probably due the fact I ordered it from china, the phone is original, but the battery is fake, I know that just by the fact I got two batteries with it, which is always a bad sign) I also upgraded the ram to 128mb.
Also I got the htc hd2 and ipaq 214 (2008), both are great, ipaq has nice dpad, awesome battery life, sdhc and wpa2. However compared to its older brother from 2004, the hx4700 its not much of improvement, in 4 years they only managed to go from 64 to 128 mb ram(128mb ram upgrade can be done on hx4700 since 2004!), it had same cpu, same screen and instead of being thiner its actually thicker than hx4700 oh and lets not forget that hx4700 is made of magnesium while ipaq 214 is plastic, but it is not cheap plastic, it does go with the hp quality standards. Even through ipaq 214 isn't that impressive its still a nice vga ppc and its comfortable in hand even through its even bigger than hx4700.
Got a little out of the way, but anyway you can see that I do love windows mobile, I want it come back, but that is unlikely to happen. Microsoft pretty much ditched winmo users in favour of the crappy win phone which is the worst mobile os out there. They went to advanced (and best) to dumb kiddy os, much like the competition, in order to attempt to compete with them, nedless to say they failed. That wasn't enough, they also attempt to bring the todays kiddy smartphone interface to desktop pc, with windows 8 and metro, which also failed. Microsoft just never learns, they should had just stick with winmo to please advanced users and they could still retain bigger marketshare of at least 10% than the laughtable 4% which win phone got now.
Anyway not long ago I finished my custom wm6.1 rom, which includes many modded icons(control panel, taskbar icons, folders, filetype icons,..), lots of must have programs such as pocket plus, quick menu, wk task, resco explorer, pocket music, tcpmp, ramdisk,.. registry tweaks, preconfigured filetypes, settings,...
I can share this rom to anybody interested who has the hx4700.
What did I tell you!
stephj said:
It maybe that Windows RT, the ARM Windows 8 OS for tablets, could be going the same way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/microsoft-kill-windows-rt-larson-green
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/385609/windows-rt-faces-the-axe-microsoft-exec-suggests
I wonder if the guys in the RT forum have heard this yet.
stephj said:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/microsoft-kill-windows-rt-larson-green
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/385609/windows-rt-faces-the-axe-microsoft-exec-suggests
I wonder if the guys in the RT forum have heard this yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the same game again and again
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I also used WM from version 3 on in so many PDA's I lost count... Then I went to WM Phones... HTC touch diamond, TD2, HD2, et all... But when Windows 7 came out, I couldn't even look at the directory (my wife has one). So Microsoft drove me to Android... Just another example of their unsailsmenship... Yea I know it's not a word... But it's the truth...
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My only phone is still Samsung Omnia i900, which is just perfect. I think i wouldn't use Android as a primary system, so I am going to buy HTC HD2.
the biggest apps windows mobile lack is a translation app (ex google/bing translate) and a more modern internet browser.
zetakey in very fresh (march 2014) but very heavy and makes the phone to stop responding. i hope they can solve it soon. until then ucweb and opera 10 are our only options.
spkraul said:
the biggest apps windows mobile lack is a translation app (ex google/bing translate) and a more modern internet browser.
zetakey in very fresh (march 2014) but very heavy and makes the phone to stop responding. i hope they can solve it soon. until then ucweb and opera 10 are our only options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Had tried Zetakey some time back. Pretty heavy and made device unresponsive but it did work, and hey at least it was a plausible way to access HTML5.
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