Related
i just got back from the att store in Lexington ky off richmond rd and the rudest jerk would not sell me the tilt 2 unless i got a data plan, even if i paid full price! What the heck! I hate freakin att, it took all I had not to pop this blond haired dude just for how rude he was to me and my wife. I told him I'll just get it off ebay and he said they would detect it and automatically add data plan.
My wife is eligible for early upgrade and she has an iphone w/ data plan
Shouldn't I be able to get her to get the tilt 2. They will de-activate her iphone, then when she gets home put my old sim in tilt 2 and have her re-activate her phone. Is this possible or no. Please help
I don't want to pay for a stupid 30 a month data plan data plan, i only want the wifi use.
ATT is much more proactive about checking IMEI's now than they used to be. As a result, upon placing your sim in the Tilt 2, you will very likely receive a text message informing you that if you do not add a smartphone data plan to your phone, one will be added for you.
One possible, and I stress POSSIBLE, way around this is to use an unlocked TP2 from another carrier, or the int'l unbranded version. It won't have 3G, but it may not get flagged as a smartphone because most carriers only have their own phones in the IMEI database that they use to check for this sort of thing. So while they would detect the Tilt2 and charge you for a monthly data plan, they might not detect an unlocked branded version from VZW or Tmobile or the unbranded international version as a smartphone.
I'm sorry the dude was rude, and I'm not super fond of ATT (or other carriers for that matter) either, but based on my experience and that of some other users I know, I believe his information is accurate. We used to be able to get away with a lot more than we can now.
Best way to go without paying for data these days is prepaid (though prepaid plans like VZW's which include for example, unlimited data, don't allow smartphones for fear of abuse. I haven't heard of ATT's prepaid rejecting smartphones because their prepaid data packages are per mb--no danger of abuse).
fortunz said:
One possible, and I stress POSSIBLE, way around this is to use an unlocked TP2 from another carrier, or the int'l unbranded version. It won't have 3G, but it may not get flagged as a smartphone because most carriers only have their own phones in the IMEI database that they use to check for this sort of thing. So while they would detect the Tilt2 and charge you for a monthly data plan, they might not detect an unlocked branded version from VZW or Tmobile or the unbranded international version as a smartphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds good in theory, and would work out pretty well for OP since he isn't concerned about 3G capabilities.
When you log into your AT&T wireless account, AT&T attempts to detect your phone and displays it on screen for you. When I was using unlocked phones on their network (i900 Omnia for a year and most recently for 3 days, T-MO's Touch Pro 2), it never detected/displayed my phone.
I just logged into my account now to check if it detected my new AT&T branded Tilt 2, and indeed it did.
Not to spam OP, but if you're interested in a T-Mo Touch Pro 2, I have one listed in the Marketplace. Good luck!
Thanks for your sympathy
Thanks for your sim-pathy (sympathy), It is good to know I'm not the only one angry about this.
It would sure be nice to have a 3.5 jack with an unlocked verizon or sprint version, but I'm just not sure how not having 3g band would effect my signal. Years ago I remember having sprint service and it was horrible where I live.
You are wondering how it would affect your carrier edge data signal? I thought you only wanted to use wifi?
If you are worried about how it would affect your regular GSM phone signal, I can't imagine that would be problem. I believe the GSM chip is the same in all versions, and would expect similar performance from all TP2s that have it.
To date, I haven't yet heard of an unlocked Sprint version working on US GSM carriers (possibly due to some software protections they added in). Unlocked VZWs have been proven to work on ATT. If you want the 3.5mm jack, maybe VZW or Telus would be your best bet.
thanks for the tip
I did not know unlocked sprint versions would not work on US gsm, thanks for the tip. I'm going to start searching the threads for people who have got the unlocked Verizon's to work before I buy.
I was not for sure if the 3g just carried data, thanks for clearing that up. If that is all it adds I won't miss it because, "i really only use wifi".
or maybe just hold out for the hd2.....don't know if I can stand using my backup Motorola phone much longer *my htc trinity drowned ......
There is an alternative
You may try to purchase a phone from T-mobile and they won't limit you to having a data plan especially if you pay full price. I've seen many do it, and many succeed. Good Luck
lol, get the phone with the data plan. go home, call at&t and tell them you've changed your mind and dont want the data plan. have your old phone's imei around and tell them your going to use your old phone. done. i've done it multiple times. no use arguing with those idiots at the store; most of us here know more about phones than they do
xda kindness
If only our mobile devices companies were all staffed by the nice and informative people of xda the universe would be a better place.
omaralt said:
lol, get the phone with the data plan. go home, call at&t and tell them you've changed your mind and dont want the data plan. have your old phone's imei around and tell them your going to use your old phone. done. i've done it multiple times. no use arguing with those idiots at the store; most of us here know more about phones than they do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lots of us have, but you should note that not all the old tricks work anymore. IMEI checking occurs much more often now, not just when you call in.
Are you looking to just not have a data plan period for her phone? The Smartphone/PDA data and iPhone data are the same price.
fortunz said:
As a result, upon placing your sim in the Tilt 2, you will very likely receive a text message informing you that if you do not add a smartphone data plan to your phone, one will be added for you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been running for about a week now on my old SIM w/ MediaNet and have not received any such message.
RacerX10 said:
I've been running for about a week now on my old SIM w/ MediaNet and have not received any such message.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope it keeps working for you.
I don't understand how he was being rude at all. If he can't sell it to you without those conditions then it certainly isn't his fault. I work at RadioShack and the system we use will not allow us to sell smartphones without adding data either. Not sure how this applies to phones bought outright but all sellers do things a little different. Don't be upset at the associate, be upset at att and the rest of the carriers who also require this.
Actually, according to the rep I had, it seems more along the lines of the phones official launch being today that is the issue from the store side. Since its so new they're not, at least the regular associate isn't, allowed to sell the phone sans contract.
Needless to say my shackles are back on
Considering the amount that shipped out to some stores if his store was any indicator it wouldn't surprise me. How do you only send 3, with one to be set for display purposes?
RE: att rep
I never blamed this guy for the rules this att rep he had to follow, that is not what ticked me off. This had nothing to do with what ticked me off
From the second I walked into this store he was the most sarcastic punk ever, and took it personal that I was trying to get this great htc phone without a data plan. He treated me like I was trying to steal it. I was very polite and I doubt he even knew that I was the least bit upset.
Just got back from an At&t store myself. Rep said the same thing and was also a jerk. I couldn't purchase the phone by itself. I'm not due for an upgrade yet so I was trying to buy the phone full price.
The rep was asking me why I wanted the phone. He said its horrible, it useless, he had a Fuze and gave it away because of how bad it was. He uses a BB and iPhone (BIG SURPRISE). He said I was probably the only person asking for the phone the whole day and thats why they didn't have a display model, because no one wants this phone. He said "Why do you want a windows phone, its windows!!!! Haha, c'mon!"
I was screaming inside. If the jackass had any technology knowledge he would understand why I wanted the phone. The possibilities are endless. I'm running TomTom, Wifi access point, internet sharing, mp3 trimmer, push e-mail, Skyfire, DirecTV NFL Superfan Streaming, registry edits, etc. I know a BB and iPhone can also do some of these things but they CAN'T DO ALL.
gtdRR said:
Just got back from an At&t store myself. Rep said the same thing and was also a jerk. I couldn't purchase the phone by itself. I'm not due for an upgrade yet so I was trying to buy the phone full price.
The rep was asking me why I wanted the phone. He said its horrible, it useless, he had a Fuze and gave it away because of how bad it was. He uses a BB and iPhone (BIG SURPRISE). He said I was probably the only person asking for the phone the whole day and thats why they didn't have a display model, because no one wants this phone. He said "Why do you want a windows phone, its windows!!!! Haha, c'mon!"
I was screaming inside. If the jackass had any technology knowledge he would understand why I wanted the phone. The possibilities are endless. I'm running TomTom, Wifi access point, internet sharing, mp3 trimmer, push e-mail, Skyfire, DirecTV NFL Superfan Streaming, registry edits, etc. I know a BB and iPhone can also do some of these things but they CAN'T DO ALL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the people in the stores are just typical sales people. They have bad attitudes, and think they know everything because of their "training". Just remember that they are trying to make their commission off of you. Every time I call customer service I make a point to complain about the sales people in the stores. Once, I went in to a store and asked for a new SIM card, and the jerk didn't want to give me one because I was not buying something. I asked for a manager, and she was a b***h about it too and told me that the SIM cards cost them a lot of money. She told me to go to the RadioShack down the road and get one (and they wanted to charge me $25 for one). I just stopped going to the stores all together. If I need a new SIM card, I call customer service and request one to be shipped to me. My advise.... Stay away from the stores!!!!
If they are so into earning their commissions one would think they would want to sell a $549 phone at full price, no?
I work for Best Buy Mobile and indeed AT&T does automatically add the data plan once the IMEI for smartphones is detected in their database but this does not mean you can't buy the phone outright.. that's where the guy was wrong. I don't know if he would get a lesser commission if he sells without an activation or whatnot.
I was told that when you buy the tilt2, even at the no commitment price, as soon as you insert the sim AT&T will charge/change your service into a $30/mo data plan. Before anyone suggests to take the $30/mo plan that's $360 for the year. Purchasing it subsided with the data plan for a year is more than buying unlocked, nor do I want the $30 plan.
I was wondering if I purchase an unlocked Tilt2 can att still do that if I insert my sim into unlocked one. I'm happy with my data plan (medianet) and want to avoid being hit with the change buy purchasing an unlocked one. OK experts what's the verdict.
Any workaround anyone gives you is susceptible to being caught eventually, just FYI.
The one that's probably most reliable for now is purchasing an unlocked int'l GSM, TMobile or Sprint TP2 and plugging your sim into it. You won't have the proper 3g bands, so your data speed will be slower than if you were using a Tilt 2, but carriers don't generally maintain imei dbs of phones that aren't on their network.
Others may tell you they got by ATT with a Tilt2 and haven't had their data plan changed, but not everyone is so lucky. ATT most definitely monitors imei more now than they used to (defeating this used to be much more simple and effective before ATT began rebuilding their systems to accommodate iPhone enforcement--now those protections are starting to be used against other smartphones), so before you take the chance, keep in mind some people are getting nailed. The same is true for my suggestion above -- there are no guarantees.
I have a TMO HTC touch pro 2 that i purchased unlocked and am using it on AT&T on the medianet plan. My last several phones have been Samsung Innov8 and Nokia 5800 both Symbian OS that I have used unlocked on AT&T and only paid for medianet with no issues (aside from lack of 3G which isn't available in my area anyway).
-Jerry
webfrm said:
I was told that when you buy the tilt2, even at the no commitment price, as soon as you insert the sim AT&T will charge/change your service into a $30/mo data plan. Before anyone suggests to take the $30/mo plan that's $360 for the year. Purchasing it subsided with the data plan for a year is more than buying unlocked, nor do I want the $30 plan.
I was wondering if I purchase an unlocked Tilt2 can att still do that if I insert my sim into unlocked one. I'm happy with my data plan (medianet) and want to avoid being hit with the change buy purchasing an unlocked one. OK experts what's the verdict.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IDT they can add the data plan to your account without your consent.
sdaddy said:
IDT they can add the data plan to your account without your consent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can and have. It started with the iPhone, and has expanded to other smartphones recently. First I heard of the expansion to other phones was when a friend got a txt warning him that he had to add one himself or it would be added for him immediately after he popped a sim into his old nokia smartphone when he was going to use it for a weekend. It's really only a question of whether their software will spot your smartphone.
I can't believe another one of these threads has popped up. No, they won't add a data plan without your consent. They will add it if they can twist your arm enough to say ok. If they add it without your consent there is plenty of precedent showing that they will remove it upon your insistence.
As for me, I have an iPhone 3GS, a Tilt2, and a Sony Xperia x1a that I use on my MediaNet $15 plan + $5 for 200 text message plan. I bought the Tilt 2 subsidized and even then didn't have to add the $30 plan.
Of course, it doesn't matter how many times this is stated there will still be the naysayers who will claim otherwise.
If the phone you by is a Tilt 2 (an AT&T branded phone) they will know by the IMEI. If you buy a TouchPro 2 or a phone from say another carrier they won't know what phone you have and allow you to get a less expansive data plan or no plan at all. Down side is you can't use AT&T's 3G and are stuck with the much slower data connection.
Honestly not having a data plan really hampers having such a capable phone.
jlczl said:
I can't believe another one of these threads has popped up. No, they won't add a data plan without your consent. They will add it if they can twist your arm enough to say ok. If they add it without your consent there is plenty of precedent showing that they will remove it upon your insistence.
As for me, I have an iPhone 3GS, a Tilt2, and a Sony Xperia x1a that I use on my MediaNet $15 plan + $5 for 200 text message plan. I bought the Tilt 2 subsidized and even then didn't have to add the $30 plan.
Of course, it doesn't matter how many times this is stated there will still be the naysayers who will claim otherwise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They sent me a text saying, "I data plan is required and if omitted, one would be added." Got home and checked and my data plan was changed.
It DOES happen.
jlczl said:
I can't believe another one of these threads has popped up. No, they won't add a data plan without your consent. They will add it if they can twist your arm enough to say ok. If they add it without your consent there is plenty of precedent showing that they will remove it upon your insistence.
As for me, I have an iPhone 3GS, a Tilt2, and a Sony Xperia x1a that I use on my MediaNet $15 plan + $5 for 200 text message plan. I bought the Tilt 2 subsidized and even then didn't have to add the $30 plan.
Of course, it doesn't matter how many times this is stated there will still be the naysayers who will claim otherwise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is because exceptions don't disprove a rule.
I don't even doubt that some people have managed to talk their way out of the rule -- when I was tethering off my samsung a500 (on a different carrier) as a primary home internet connection on a $15 a month plan, they caught me, canceled, and I managed to get the right person on the phone and quickly got it reinstated and continued that use until I was done with that carrier.
Not everyone doing the same thing I did was so lucky, which is to say, just because I got around their policies doesn't mean the policies won't trap and damage users. And years later, carriers are far better equipped to detect violations and make changes without a human ever getting involved. Undoing their chicanery (they had a fair point in my case, but current policies are crap) is sometimes just a matter of luck, and sometimes is just impossible.
Telling people it might be possible to get around it, and how, is a nice piece of information. Telling people there is no valid concern when it's so clear there is one is irresponsible and harmful.
RojasTKD said:
Honestly not having a data plan really hampers having such a capable phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That of course depends on intended usage. Not everyone is a twittering feed-reading emailaholic. Some people are database using, note taking, app-aholics who need a 24/7 connection about as much as they need a hole in their head. Most are inbetween, but with the ubiquity of wifi in many people's worlds, inbetween users can potentially cut their cell bill in half with little-to-no usage sacrifice.
Is access to marketplace and zune pass on the device dependant on the IMEI of the phone?
I had an unlocked TP2 with a $15 unlimited data plan from ATT, when I bought the focus, ATT input this new IMEI into their system and my data plan is now $15 for 200mb. If access to these features is not IMEI dependant I would like to get my unlimited plan back...
Thanks in advance for the help.
chizzwhizz said:
Is access to marketplace and zune pass on the device dependant on the IMEI of the phone?
I had an unlocked TP2 with a $15 unlimited data plan from ATT, when I bought the focus, ATT input this new IMEI into their system and my data plan is now $15 for 200mb. If access to these features is not IMEI dependant I would like to get my unlimited plan back...
Thanks in advance for the help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it only looks at your email (your phone is connected to your email,xboxlive )
it doesn't look at your imei
AT&T shafted you. This has nothing to do with Microsoft or even Windows Phone 7. Unless you gave them permission to change your plan, you should call back and get your old plan back.
chizzwhizz said:
Is access to marketplace and zune pass on the device dependant on the IMEI of the phone?
I had an unlocked TP2 with a $15 unlimited data plan from ATT, when I bought the focus, ATT input this new IMEI into their system and my data plan is now $15 for 200mb. If access to these features is not IMEI dependant I would like to get my unlimited plan back...
Thanks in advance for the help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
$15 Unlimited Data Plans are for Feature Phones, not Smartphones.
You phone sends off your IMEI to AT&T whenever it connects to the network. Since you put a SIM Card from a Feature Phone into a Smartphone, they automatically upgraded you to a 200MB Smartphone data plan.
Call AT&T. If you're on a contract you HAVE to have a Smartphone data plan if you put that SIM in a Smartphone. There's no way to get around it. If you get them to change it back (i.e. tell them you're going to just use you feature phone), the minute your phone connects to the network again, it will check the IMEI and if the SIM is in the smartphone it will simply upgrade you to a smartphone data plan again.
I made a huge post about this in another thread talking about getting a WP7 device without a data plan in that forum. My mom did that and wondered why her bill went from $80 to $120 in less than a month a while back
RustyGrom said:
AT&T shafted you. This has nothing to do with Microsoft or even Windows Phone 7. Unless you gave them permission to change your plan, you should call back and get your old plan back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incorrect. It's common knowledge that Feature Phone Data Plans are incompatible with smartphones and that a smartphone data plan is required if you use a smartphone on contract. It's in the contract. It's in you contract too. Might want to read it.
They reserve the right to change you service if you use an incompatible device with you contract (i.e. alter you contract to compliance), and they reserve the right to add services onto you contract if you use them (i.e. if you tether without a tethering plan, they will add the tethering plan to you contract).
AT&T didn't shaft him, he just got himself kapwnd trying to shaft AT&T.
Nice try, but no cigar.
T-Mobile would do the same thing, and CDMA carriers would require you to upgrade you plan if you try to swap out a feature phone for a smart phone. Call Sprint, smarty, and see what they tell you about this (I've had all 4 carriers ).
Do you seriously think carriers are so dumb as to leave such an odd profit-killing loophole in their systems?
N8ter said:
$15 Unlimited Data Plans are for Feature Phones, not Smartphones.
You phone sends off your IMEI to AT&T whenever it connects to the network. Since you put a SIM Card from a Feature Phone into a Smartphone, they automatically upgraded you to a 200MB Smartphone data plan.
Call AT&T. If you're on a contract you HAVE to have a Smartphone data plan if you put that SIM in a Smartphone. There's no way to get around it. If you get them to change it back (i.e. tell them you're going to just use you feature phone), the minute your phone connects to the network again, it will check the IMEI and if the SIM is in the smartphone it will simply upgrade you to a smartphone data plan again.
I made a huge post about this in another thread talking about getting a WP7 device without a data plan in that forum. My mom did that and wondered why her bill went from $80 to $120 in less than a month a while back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it still amazes me how cheap people are with this. You will spend 600 bucks on a device but expect not to pay for the plan.
Y'all have been getting around the data for quite a while now and it finally looks like the cellular companies are catching up to you.
nrfitchett4 said:
it still amazes me how cheap people are with this. You will spend 600 bucks on a device but expect not to pay for the plan.
Y'all have been getting around the data for quite a while now and it finally looks like the cellular companies are catching up to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The carriers have been doing that for years. I think it's too late to even consider ignorance a valid excuse, especially when you have other people sprouting around invalid information and posters are allergic to forum search (the thread I posted in probably would have popped up in the results).
The truth and the matter is, someone with an Unlimited Feature Phone plan probably never uses more than 200MB data a month anyways, and a smartphone can do 10x that easily. Can probably do over 200MB just with passive Syncing if you have busy email/facebook/twitter accounts. In that case, marketing the data plans for feature phones as "Unlimited" is nice from a strategic standpoint once the person is locked into a contract they either have to pay AT&T/Verizon's enourmous ETF Fee (which they increased from $200 to $325 or 350, one of the two) to move to another carrier, or simply upgrade to the smartphone data plans (and for anyone who even moderately uses their device - 200MB is NOT going to cut it on a fairly recent smartphone).
200MB smartphone data plans are for people who have smartphones but use them like feature phones - you know, the people who think the phone is pretty but don't even have an email/facebook/twitter/etc. acocunt linked up with it (except maybe a google or live account, but they never use it and just make and recieve calls on the phone, and maybe some texts).
Well i'm not on contract with att anymore, my two years ended about 4 months ago...didnt upgrade or anything. I bought my phone out of contract. But i got my unlimited plan for feature phones back so i'm happy. It's not about being cheap...i make more than enough money in a year. It just doesnt make sense to charge $15 for 200mb knowing full well that anyone with a smartphone will use over 200mb in a month and then charge $10 for every mb over...
chizzwhizz said:
Well i'm not on contract with att anymore, my two years ended about 4 months ago...didnt upgrade or anything. I bought my phone out of contract. But i got my unlimited plan for feature phones back so i'm happy. It's not about being cheap...i make more than enough money in a year. It just doesnt make sense to charge $15 for 200mb knowing full well that anyone with a smartphone will use over 200mb in a month and then charge $10 for every mb over...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
isn't that why they offer a 2gb plan???
what are y'all gonna due when sim cards become unremovable???
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/17/gsm-association-proposes-embedded-sim-cards-with-remote-activati/
I am worried about the same thing.
I presently use HP Ipaq 614C and have 30USD a month unlimited data plan.. I want to buy unlocked HTC Surround since its almost the same price if I buy locked one from AtnT (I dont qualify for contract upgrade as I just renewed a two year contract with them 2 months back).
I am worried once I get unlocked HTC Surround from expansys-usa.. and put my SIM card in their.. wether they will change my 30USD per month unlimited data plan to 30USD per month 2GB LIMITED data plan..
I have read one more poster writing about it, about how once he put his sim, his data plan was changed from unlimited to 2GB limited data plan..
Purple11 said:
I am worried about the same thing.
I presently use HP Ipaq 614C and have 30USD a month unlimited data plan.. I want to buy unlocked HTC Surround since its almost the same price if I buy locked one from AtnT (I dont qualify for contract upgrade as I just renewed a two year contract with them 2 months back).
I am worried once I get unlocked HTC Surround from expansys-usa.. and put my SIM card in their.. wether they will change my 30USD per month unlimited data plan to 30USD per month 2GB LIMITED data plan..
I have read one more poster writing about it, about how once he put his sim, his data plan was changed from unlimited to 2GB limited data plan..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you already have a smartphone unlimited data plan, they shouldn't change it and if they do, I would call and make them change it back. The other poster had a featurephone data plan that was not compatible with the new phone.
Purple11 said:
I am worried about the same thing.
I presently use HP Ipaq 614C and have 30USD a month unlimited data plan.. I want to buy unlocked HTC Surround since its almost the same price if I buy locked one from AtnT (I dont qualify for contract upgrade as I just renewed a two year contract with them 2 months back).
I am worried once I get unlocked HTC Surround from expansys-usa.. and put my SIM card in their.. wether they will change my 30USD per month unlimited data plan to 30USD per month 2GB LIMITED data plan..
I have read one more poster writing about it, about how once he put his sim, his data plan was changed from unlimited to 2GB limited data plan..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Different situation, buddy.
AT&T used to have $30 unlimited Data Plans before they changed it. If you upgrade your phone, you get to keep your $30 unlimited Data Plan.
They call this being "Grandfathered in." Sprint did the same with SERO plans, and other carriers do the same with older plans that they have phased out.
You don't have to do anything. You just put your SIM card in the new phone and you'll still have $30 unlimited data plan, until you cancel your contract/service, then for a new line you won't have that option.
We aren't even talking about what you're talking about.
We're talking about someone trying to use a cheap feature phone plan with a smartphone, not someone who thinks he's going to lose his grandfathered unlimited data plan if he switches phones.
To the OP, it doesn't matter if your contract is out. The AT&T system sees that you have x Minutes, x SMS/MMS, and Unlimited Feature Phone data plan. When you turn your phone on with your SIM card in it, it checks the phone's IMEI to make sure it's a feature phone or dumb phone (basically the same, feature phones just have bigger screans and oftentimes QWERTY keyboards or touchscreens). If you don't, they change it to the Smartphone plan.
Since a Smartphone cannot be used with that plan, they are potentially saving you money by automatically switching you over to a smartphone data plan, because otherwise all the data you use on the smartphone would count as overages. Fortunately for you, they have tiered data plans, and it's $15 instead of 30.
If they had just let you get all the overages, you'd be paying a lot more than $15 for it and since it's explicitely written in your contract/terms that you cannot use that phone with that data plan, you'd have no choice but to pay up. That is Cell Phone Service 101. Most people who pay attention know there is a distinct difference between feature phone and smartphone plans. They aren't even called the same thing on the AT&T website, or on your bill.
nrfitchett4 said:
isn't that why they offer a 2gb plan???
what are y'all gonna due when sim cards become unremovable???
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/17/gsm-association-proposes-embedded-sim-cards-with-remote-activati/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rejoice that when someone steals a GSM smartphone it will no longer be equivalent to them hitting eBay lottery? They should have started doing this a long time ago, IMO.
i understand what you guys are saying but why was it that when i went from my razr to an unlocked touch pro 2 (feature phone to smartphone), my data plan didnt change? even when att introduced the tiered plans, my data plan didnt change.
chizzwhizz said:
i understand what you guys are saying but why was it that when i went from my razr to an unlocked touch pro 2 (feature phone to smartphone), my data plan didnt change? even when att introduced the tiered plans, my data plan didnt change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you were lucky???
I really don't know. Carriers are getting better at being able to tell what phone you are using these days. Used to be that they couldn't tell at all. Now, a lot of phones can transmit the imei number back to the carrier that they can now check against a database to see what type of phone it is.
More like "every phone."
nrfitchett4 said:
you were lucky???
I really don't know. Carriers are getting better at being able to tell what phone you are using these days. Used to be that they couldn't tell at all. Now, a lot of phones can transmit the imei number back to the carrier that they can now check against a database to see what type of phone it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
ceesheim said:
it only looks at your email (your phone is connected to your email,xboxlive )
it doesn't look at your imei
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It checks a serial code stored in the device's rom for market, zune, xbl,.etc.
Live account is used to access services, ofc. Microsoft can ban phonea by serial though, which is exactly what will happen to every phone using a ported rom (i.e. Hd2s running wp7).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
It checks a serial code stored in the device's rom for market, zune, xbl,.etc.
Live account is used to access services, ofc. Microsoft can ban phonea by serial though, which is exactly what will happen to every phone using a ported rom (i.e. Hd2s running wp7).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we don't know that for sure , I have 2 hd7 (direct from O2 online) and one of them couldn't be activated (email) so I called O2 for the code ( 5 times 5 numbers) but they couldn't help me .
they told me that the phone wasn't activated for some reason at Microsoft.
I called Microsoft and tolled the story and they say " gif us a email and wait 2 min , we are generating an code for you " LOL phone was unlocked and I could use the email.
I called again to activate that same phone with an different email and I got a different code and that one worked to
I think that if you have a hd2 with a ported rom you just have to call Microsoft and ask them to unlock your email for it and after that you can do the same as a real wp7 phone.
ceesheim said:
we don't know that for sure , I have 2 hd7 (direct from O2 online) and one of them couldn't be activated (email) so I called O2 for the code ( 5 times 5 numbers) but they couldn't help me .
they told me that the phone wasn't activated for some reason at Microsoft.
I called Microsoft and tolled the story and they say " gif us a email and wait 2 min , we are generating an code for you " LOL phone was unlocked and I could use the email.
I called again to activate that same phone with an different email and I got a different code and that one worked to
I think that if you have a hd2 with a ported rom you just have to call Microsoft and ask them to unlock your email for it and after that you can do the same as a real wp7 phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes we do.
That HD7 incident you're talking about has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
Microsoft doesn't do that by eMail address.
It uses a serial in the device's ROM. It does the same for XBox 360s and they can ban a device by serial number. They can probably do it for Zune HDs as well. It has nothing to do with you email address, otherwise you can unban yourself simply by creating a new Live ID, master resetting the phone, and putting that Windows Live ID when setting the phone up. Obviously that's an elementary loophole. It would be embarassing if they left the system that easy to circumvent...
Think through these things a bit before you make such sweeping conclusions.
Microsoft already has the infrastructure up for this. These are known facts.
An HD2 with a ported WP7 ROM won't be useful at all, except as a feature phone with a cute UI, because the system would probably ban it the minute it checked in with Microsoft's servers and sent that phony certificate (or no certificate at all in the worse case).
WP7 phones send this serial (certificate, etc.) to Microsoft's servers whenever they connect to check for updates, etc. It's like a Windows Genuine Advantage for phones, except much stronger. Apple can also block iPhones/iTouches from iTunes via the Serial number if unsupported changes are made to the firmware or the firmware is ported to an unsupported device, so it's not like this has never been done or implemented before...
The Serial/Certificate and the IMEI is pretty much all Microsoft needs to ban a phone from all their cloud services automatically. The IMEI itself is enough to tell them that you're running WP7 on a non-WP7 device (i.e. HD2), which can result in an auto-ban on the first connection attempt.
N8ter said:
Different situation, buddy.
AT&T used to have $30 unlimited Data Plans before they changed it. If you upgrade your phone, you get to keep your $30 unlimited Data Plan.
They call this being "Grandfathered in." Sprint did the same with SERO plans, and other carriers do the same with older plans that they have phased out.
You don't have to do anything. You just put your SIM card in the new phone and you'll still have $30 unlimited data plan, until you cancel your contract/service, then for a new line you won't have that option.
We aren't even talking about what you're talking about.
We're talking about someone trying to use a cheap feature phone plan with a smartphone, not someone who thinks he's going to lose his grandfathered unlimited data plan if he switches phones.
To the OP, it doesn't matter if your contract is out. The AT&T system sees that you have x Minutes, x SMS/MMS, and Unlimited Feature Phone data plan. When you turn your phone on with your SIM card in it, it checks the phone's IMEI to make sure it's a feature phone or dumb phone (basically the same, feature phones just have bigger screans and oftentimes QWERTY keyboards or touchscreens). If you don't, they change it to the Smartphone plan.
Since a Smartphone cannot be used with that plan, they are potentially saving you money by automatically switching you over to a smartphone data plan, because otherwise all the data you use on the smartphone would count as overages. Fortunately for you, they have tiered data plans, and it's $15 instead of 30.
If they had just let you get all the overages, you'd be paying a lot more than $15 for it and since it's explicitely written in your contract/terms that you cannot use that phone with that data plan, you'd have no choice but to pay up. That is Cell Phone Service 101. Most people who pay attention know there is a distinct difference between feature phone and smartphone plans. They aren't even called the same thing on the AT&T website, or on your bill.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply..
I have paid Atnt for last 4 months 30USD a month just to keep this unlimited data plan.. my battery at Ipaq died and I have been using this cheap flip phone and absolutly no data.. but I know this December I will be getting WP7 back.. so I am just paying 30USD a month every month, just to keep the plan.. and zero use of data.. one cannot even stop it 'temporarily'.. once you get it off.. you can only get 2GB limited data plan max... which I usually finish in first 10-12 days when I used my HP Ipaq614c... I play a lot of streaming music.. and heck of a data intensive financial softwares on my phone..
Okay, this might not be the best place for this thread, so mods, please feel free to move as needed.
Anyways, a friend of mine got his phone completely destroyed in a storm the other day, so he's planning on upgrading. He has had a smartphone on ATT without a data plan and received a text saying that ATT recognized his use of a smartphone and added a data plan. He promptly took it out and used a non-smartphone to avoid the charge.
As a Tmo customer, I have always bought my phones off-contract and put in my SIM and used freely without a data plan, so this sounds absurd to me. Can ATT add a data plan to a phone even if it was bought off-contract (which would defeat the purpose of buying a new phone for $500 instead of upgrading for ~$200)? I know carriers can track IMEI numbers because, like I said, I have no data plan, but on my.t-mobile.com, TMo knows I use an HD2.
Thanks ahead of time for the input!
dcheng11 said:
Okay, this might not be the best place for this thread, so mods, please feel free to move as needed.
Anyways, a friend of mine got his phone completely destroyed in a storm the other day, so he's planning on upgrading. He has had a smartphone on ATT without a data plan and received a text saying that ATT recognized his use of a smartphone and added a data plan. He promptly took it out and used a non-smartphone to avoid the charge.
As a Tmo customer, I have always bought my phones off-contract and put in my SIM and used freely without a data plan, so this sounds absurd to me. Can ATT add a data plan to a phone even if it was bought off-contract (which would defeat the purpose of buying a new phone for $500 instead of upgrading for ~$200)? I know carriers can track IMEI numbers because, like I said, I have no data plan, but on my.t-mobile.com, TMo knows I use an HD2.
Thanks ahead of time for the input!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes AT&T can charge him for data, as long as he is on contract or month to month service, if he wants to avoid paying for data he can probably switch to a prepaid account which normally has different device expectations, I know it sounds weird but thats how Verizon does it so just thinking maybe AT&T does as well
jami2976 said:
Yes AT&T can charge him for data, as long as he is on contract or month to month service, if he wants to avoid paying for data he can probably switch to a prepaid account which normally has different device expectations, I know it sounds weird but thats how Verizon does it so just thinking maybe AT&T does as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, I find that ridiculous... As a GSM phone user, I've always liked the freedom of just popping in a SIM and being done with it. Verizon as a CDMA network requires you to get the phone serial number activated, so Verizon will know right off the bat what phone is being used. Sorry disappointing, but oh well, thanks for the input!
So I decided to to return my S7 and stick with my S6. That's another discussion...
Originally I I used the BB method and upgraded my 2 lines to the S6 and S6 Edge on Oct 23 to beat the Nov 15 deadline before unlimited data price increase. Got the phones shipped to me. Immediately threw away the sim cards that came in them and installed my old sim card. It used to be new activations were tied to the sim card not IMEI. Well that's changed. Sometime after the 15, Verizon closed that loophole and started doing it via IMEI. Anyway, when I put the sim card back into my S6, it went through activation again and it flagged the imei and switched me to 2GB. I wasn't expecting it to activate again so it caught me off guard. Now I've loss unlimited, and I'm 7GB overage on my data plan. I've been fighting with them all day trying to get it changed back because it was fine before but now it switched. My receipt from BB clearly shows keep existing plan. It did not force me to switch due to upgrade. The last person I spoke with said she will try to get my udp re-instated but it had to go through some "off-line group". I'm waiting for a response. One this is for certain. If they don't get me switched back, eff you verizon, I'll be switching to ATT. There is no reason for me to stay with you if I don't have udp anymore. That's the only reason I stuck around.
One thing I'd like to add is I'm not an abuser of data. At most I use 15gb a month. Sometimes I use only 2 to 3GB. I just like the fact of not having to worry if I'm going to go over. That and the fact I refuse to pay more to get less!
I did the exact same thing. I have few theories as well but maybe you and I can figure out together to beat the system.
We have 2 lines as well and use about 18gb each more or less. Just streaming audio most of the day while at work.
But theory was my phone was shipped from a best buy store instead of a warehouse like normal.
I would keep on Verizon to make sure they give you it back, I have mine back but when I fought them on returning my UDP they didn't put the work order in like they said. So just call back every day or every other day.
I will try again to upgrade and activate the phone on my line that is not up for upgrade and then switch it back. But white trying this I am thinking about bypassing the whole phone activation part. Far as skipping the setup where you just can play around with phone and OS then pop the old sim in? Just a theory though.
anrichardson said:
I did the exact same thing. I have few theories as well but maybe you and I can figure out together to beat the system.
We have 2 lines as well and use about 18gb each more or less. Just streaming audio most of the day while at work.
But theory was my phone was shipped from a best buy store instead of a warehouse like normal.
I would keep on Verizon to make sure they give you it back, I have mine back but when I fought them on returning my UDP they didn't put the work order in like they said. So just call back every day or every other day.
I will try again to upgrade and activate the phone on my line that is not up for upgrade and then switch it back. But white trying this I am thinking about bypassing the whole phone activation part. Far as skipping the setup where you just can play around with phone and OS then pop the old sim in? Just a theory though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been working with a single person over there and she is supposed to have me switched back to udp by Monday. I have it all in writing through email. Plus my receipt from the original S6 purchase from BB clearly states keep "existing plan". So, it's not a matter of trying to beat the system. It's a matter of a mistake on their side. It's sort of like when they advertise the price wrong in store, unless they put out a correction, they sell it to you at the price they originally listed. Anyway, come Monday, if it's not fixed, I'm switching. Nothing ties you to the carrier anymore since all of them pay your ETFs to switch. And the whole Verizon has the best network thing, that's debatable. I have my boys on T-mo and other family on ATT. I've been in instances where I had weak or no service but they had service. I'm not going to argue though that rural areas, Verizon by far kicks everyone's ass. But then again, it's pretty slow in rural areas and how often do I go into rural areas anymore.
I did the same thing to FOUR line. The one line was not delivered until after Nov 15 ad as soon as I activated the phone UDP was lost. I immediately returned the phone to BB and called Verizon and requested a inactive pricing requests (IPR). The particular phone line was 27GB over, LOL. After a few days UDP was back on the line, I was feeling better. I then was the first person to discover from the BB buying group to find that the 3 remaining lines had a PENDING UPGRADE. Not sure what to do and if I should keep the other 3 phones and hope for the best or take back and pay the extra $20 per month per line. Not wanting to loose UDP I returned the phones. It seems now that PU have been dropping off. But keeping those BB phones n your line it RISKY. Best bet is to sell them! 1 person claimed to have lost UDP after phone upgraded. Not happy paying the extra $20 but better than being stuck with $2GB in a 2year contract!
Google Verizon Upgrade Keep Unlimited Data to find a HUGE thread over at slick deals
BB
Bad Bimr said:
I did the same thing to FOUR line. The one line was not delivered until after Nov 15 ad as soon as I activated the phone UDP was lost. I immediately returned the phone to BB and called Verizon and requested a inactive pricing requests (IPR). The particular phone line was 27GB over, LOL. After a few days UDP was back on the line, I was feeling better. I then was the first person to discover from the BB buying group to find that the 3 remaining lines had a PENDING UPGRADE. Not sure what to do and if I should keep the other 3 phones and hope for the best or take back and pay the extra $20 per month per line. Not wanting to loose UDP I returned the phones. It seems now that PU have been dropping off. But keeping those BB phones n your line it RISKY. Best bet is to sell them! 1 person claimed to have lost UDP after phone upgraded. Not happy paying the extra $20 but better than being stuck with $2GB in a 2year contract!
Google Verizon Upgrade Keep Unlimited Data to find a HUGE thread over at slick deals
BB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the thing. I did this on October 23rd. All was fine. That is until I got my S7. S7 was fine too. But I decided to go back to my S6. Once I put the sim card back in the S6, it reactivated again and flagged it and switched to 2GB. Anyway, I hope it all gets straightened. At least I have in writing that I won't be charged for the overages. We'll see. I've just had crappy luck with Verizon lately. Went through 2 months of back and forth with Verizon FiOS to get my bill straightened out because my connection was ll messed up.
Pretty sure the only way to ensure the account doesn't get borked is to activate the phone on someone elses plan. Dunno if you can ever use the phone on your plan due to IMEI.
I suggest upgrading to the phone you can get the most money for, sell it, and buy what you want.
If you do the Best buy method you can never put your SIM in the phone that was upgraded on your number. Thats why I ordered a IP6 for the wife under my number and she ordered a S7 edge under her number. She does not care of android and I don't like IOS so it works out great. I will never put my SIM in her phone and vice versa or it will revert to a 2gb plan. If you don't have the option to not use your sim in the phone you ordered then you should trade someone phone for phone or sell it and buy the one you want so you won't have an issue. Not saying it is a guarantee though but we have been fine so far.
Can someone fill me in on how this loophole works?
DFA1 said:
Can someone fill me in on how this loophole works?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no loophole anymore through Best Buy so don't do it.
ljv said:
There is no loophole anymore through Best Buy so don't do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will attempt from another retailer. But not for another couple of weeks.
Well I'm not entirely sure what you guys did, but I just updated my phone in store at costco by switching my upgrade over to another line on my plan (if you're solo you'll never get this to work). Buying/upgrading through that line. The person should completely activate the phone on the non udp line, then switch the device back to the non udp's actual phone and sim. Sim's no longer fry by doing this. Once the phone has beeen activated and switched back you can pop your old sim into the new device and everything should be golden. The costco lady didn't believe me but I'm flying high with my udp on my s7 edge
p2kmafia said:
Well I'm not entirely sure what you guys did, but I just updated my phone in store at costco by switching my upgrade over to another line on my plan (if you're solo you'll never get this to work). Buying/upgrading through that line. The person should completely activate the phone on the non udp line, then switch the device back to the non udp's actual phone and sim. Sim's no longer fry by doing this. Once the phone has beeen activated and switched back you can pop your old sim into the new device and everything should be golden. The costco lady didn't believe me but I'm flying high with my udp on my s7 edge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I have 2 lines that have UDP. My wife's line has an upgrade available.
So if I transfer the upgrade to my line and and the activate it on her line I should be able to keep my unlimited on both lines?
anrichardson said:
So I have 2 lines that have UDP. My wife's line has an upgrade available.
So if I transfer the upgrade to my line and and the activate it on her line I should be able to keep my unlimited on both lines?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you only have the two lines that won't work. The upgraded line needs a new two year contract and UDP isn't available anymore so one of the lines would lose the data plan.
p2kmafia said:
If you only have the two lines that won't work. The upgraded line needs a new two year contract and UDP isn't available anymore so one of the lines would lose the data plan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So my thought now is knowing somebody on verizon that has an upgrade as well and using there upgrade for my wife and using my wife's upgrade for them. that should work right?
anrichardson said:
So my thought now is knowing somebody on verizon that has an upgrade as well and using there upgrade for my wife and using my wife's upgrade for them. that should work right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whatever line you use the upgrade on HAS to renew their contract. So your wife's line cannot use the upgrade (unless paying via edge payments i.e. 800$ per phone, but don't quote me on that). You CAN use someone on another plan's upgrade and use their phone after they switch back phone's but then they'd lose their upgrade and be unable to use yours.
p2kmafia said:
Whatever line you use the upgrade on HAS to renew their contract. So your wife's line cannot use the upgrade (unless paying via edge payments i.e. 800$ per phone, but don't quote me on that). You CAN use someone on another plan's upgrade and use their phone after they switch back phone's but then they'd lose their upgrade and be unable to use yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually want to renew my 2 year deal because I would rather pay $200 or cheaper then pay the full retail price. I have done this twice before on each of our lines and was able to keep unlimited data by renewing 2 year deals.
Now the only thing is using the upgrade since I have unlimited data and have not yet been charged the extra $20 fee for unlimited data on either line yet. So my plan is to use her upgrade and then use it on my line to activate it or atleast bypass the activation setup and see if my unlimited data stays in tact. If it stays in tact then I will try to put it back on her line to see if stays in tact.
OR
I use somebody else's upgrade which will be just fine cause it's like adding another phone to the line. But when I use my upgrade for the person that gave me their upgrade, now does by activating the phone screw my unlimited data up? That is the biggest question? So I'll I am doing is swapping upgrades. I person upgrades there line but gives the phone to me and I would upgrade my line and give the phone to them. But when I upgrade my line and they take the phone to there separate account, will it take my unlimited data away?
That's the big question. But I will find out when I upgrade her line and have a friend activate it on her line that is a separate account and see what happens.
Update: I tried upgrading from the costco service and after litterally 4.5 days waiting to get it shipped or some kind of info after they charged me, I finally got another email saying that I had to agree to have my current phone be disconnected in order for the phone to be shipped. So they wanted to activate it like in store before shipping it to me. So I declined and canceled the order.
I already had pre ordered the S7 through best buy originally, but not sure if this happened in the fine print I did not read. But my wife's line never was disconnected at all before the S7 showed up. My UDP was just kicked off when I tried activating it.
Update #2
I reordered the S7 from best buy and again it shipped from store, not sure if there is any activating on there side or not.
But I bypassed the the activation setup to where you can just use the phone as a wifi device. Then I put a friends sim in the phone from an entirely different account and was able to make calls and nothing happened to my account far as any changes, but when I went to put my wifes sim in the phone, it recognized the sim and # but could not make any calls without activating it on her line.
So I then factory reset the S7 and tried activating with my friends account from bootup and when the phone activated, my account had changed, but here is what happened, It dropped my wifes phone like there was no device on her line and changed my data to 2gb. I tried to put my wifes sim in and still would not take it without activating it on her line. So I put my wifes sim back in her old phone and had to call verizon to get it back up and running and everything went back to normal even got UDP back with no hassle, cause the S7 was never activated on her line. SO...
It technically is doable, but the theory of just upgrading and selling it for retail price will still screw you over because the person that activates it will screw your line up unless they bypass the activation screen and who would take that chance.
SO what you need to do is just bypass the activation screen to where it's just wifi device then pop another users sim and your line will not change, I would recommend doing this only on your account and just swap upgrades.
ljv said:
So I decided to to return my S7 and stick with my S6. That's another discussion...
Originally I I used the BB method and upgraded my 2 lines to the S6 and S6 Edge on Oct 23 to beat the Nov 15 deadline before unlimited data price increase. Got the phones shipped to me. Immediately threw away the sim cards that came in them and installed my old sim card. It used to be new activations were tied to the sim card not IMEI. Well that's changed. Sometime after the 15, Verizon closed that loophole and started doing it via IMEI. Anyway, when I put the sim card back into my S6, it went through activation again and it flagged the imei and switched me to 2GB. I wasn't expecting it to activate again so it caught me off guard. Now I've loss unlimited, and I'm 7GB overage on my data plan. I've been fighting with them all day trying to get it changed back because it was fine before but now it switched. My receipt from BB clearly shows keep existing plan. It did not force me to switch due to upgrade. The last person I spoke with said she will try to get my udp re-instated but it had to go through some "off-line group". I'm waiting for a response. One this is for certain. If they don't get me switched back, eff you verizon, I'll be switching to ATT. There is no reason for me to stay with you if I don't have udp anymore. That's the only reason I stuck around.
One thing I'd like to add is I'm not an abuser of data. At most I use 15gb a month. Sometimes I use only 2 to 3GB. I just like the fact of not having to worry if I'm going to go over. That and the fact I refuse to pay more to get less!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FYI they're starting phase 2 with the udp and will be increasing it regardless.
Sent from my SM-G930V using XDA-Developers mobile app
seshaz said:
FYI they're starting phase 2 with the udp and will be increasing it regardless.
Sent from my SM-G930V using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Phase 2?
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk 2